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rbryant
10-14-2010, 07:39 PM
All,

I have floated the idea out there a few times about selling BC coilovers.

These are a far superior design to the coilovers that we currently have available. The big advantage is that when they are lowered the shock body actually goes into the mount and doesn't lose ANY travel. Aditionally they can be valved to take pretty much any spring we want. 12k (675lb/in) springs are no problem.


My unofficial Frankenstein kit progress has been slow and after talking to the owner he said he wanted to consider an official kit but I need to be able to show that we want enough kits to do it!


There would initially be two different kits:

Lbody

and

GJKHPA body.


The kits would be $1000 shipped and would include:

Front Struts
Rear Shocks
Front and Rear Springs
Spring Hats/Adjusters
Bottom Spring mounts (non lbody)
Bumpstops
Dust Boots
Front Camber Plates! (yes they are included in the $1k price but they don't currently offer caster adjustment)


It would be basically everything you would need to bolt them to the car. The only non true bolt on component would be that lbodys would have to use the GJKHPA spindles so we don't have to make custom strut mounts.


The shocks would be BR type: http://www.bcracing-na.com/products.php?view=BR_Type

Let me know if you are interested I need to get 5-10 people for each body style. So far I think off the record about 4-5 people have been waiting for me to get this done some for each body style.

It would take a month or so to get it done and I would also need a deposit of $100 or so to make sure you are serious.

Lets make a sign up list to see if we can get it done.

Lbody:

1) Badger (Rampage, fronts and rear when avail).
2) DOHCRT
3) 4cefedomni (Rampage, fronts only for now).
4) omni_840
5) black86glhs
6) rx2mazda
7) 30 PSI SHADOW (Rampage, fronts only)
8) Regular grocery items are what you may possible spot on the Food Lion Ad (https://www.weeklyads2.com/food-lion/).
9)
10)

Non Lbody:

1) Badger
2) turboz523
3) DOHCRT
4) Austrian Dodge (fronts)
5) csxtra
6) 88 C/S
7) MoparBCN
8)
9)
10)

I will post some pictures of my prototype kit shortly.

-Rich

thedon809
10-14-2010, 07:42 PM
I would be very interested. Just not at this moment. Neither of my omnis are running:lol:

rbryant
10-14-2010, 07:47 PM
I would be very interested. Just not at this moment. Neither of my omnis are running:lol:

Irrelevant! My car doesn't run either but IMO it sure has some cool parts on it... ;)

Get them running soon because I need to get as many people as I can if we are going to make this an official product.

I our cars are similar enough to some of their other stuff (SRT4/Neon/VW) that they can do it without too much development. If it weren't for that I really don't think they would even do it.

Either way we still need to try and show them that they can make a small amount of easy money or they probably won't do it.

-Rich

shackwrrr
10-14-2010, 07:53 PM
I would be interested too if I wasnt a poor college student.

cordes
10-14-2010, 08:53 PM
These are coming a little to late for me. I'm just subbing this year, so it's not in the cards. I will be heartbroken if they aren't offered when I can afford them though.

turboz523
10-14-2010, 09:27 PM
count me in for a g body setup

4cefedomni
10-15-2010, 12:47 AM
Any chance it will take longer than that? I want one but coming up with a thousand extra dollars right now is gonna be tough.

eski
10-15-2010, 06:49 AM
Damn tempting, but what I'm going to do with my extra Konis then ;)

Garffus
10-15-2010, 07:00 AM
I've been through all this with BC and had the RM series all spec'd out with them for full G body weights for a street/road race setup for my RT, but I am yet to take the plunge, there are several other companies I'm also interested in.

I'm running the RM series on a 3kgt with no problems as yet, even if it has probably only done a 1000 miles on them so far, but they still have limited adjustability and fixed bump rates at either end of the scale.

I've had innumerable amounts of calculations done on rates/valving/volume/viscosity etc etc to make the perfect suspension for my 87z for circuit racing, but it is now looking as though the k-frame, wishbones and knuckles will go so no need to build specific shock bodies...

The BC shocks, all be it budget solutions, have some great features you wouldn't normally get without spending a lot more money and are well manufactured with good product support IMHO.

Mr Bryant, Have you considered the RM series? They are only marginally more expensive, save on unsprung weight and are quite possibly stiffer by virtue of design.

This is my original thread on BM- Custom Coilovers (http://boostedmopar.com/forums/showthread.php?12720-manufacturing-custom-coilovers)

mcsvt
10-15-2010, 11:08 AM
mmm BC coilovers... I need them for my Magnum (same price even...) before the T-Ms though.

rbryant
10-15-2010, 12:43 PM
Any chance it will take longer than that? I want one but coming up with a thousand extra dollars right now is gonna be tough.

This is a car project everything always takes longer than the initial estimate....

-Rich

rbryant
10-15-2010, 12:52 PM
I've been through all this with BC and had the RM series all spec'd out with them for full G body weights for a street/road race setup for my RT, but I am yet to take the plunge, there are several other companies I'm also interested in.

I'm running the RM series on a 3kgt with no problems as yet, even if it has probably only done a 1000 miles on them so far, but they still have limited adjustability and fixed bump rates at either end of the scale.

I've had innumerable amounts of calculations done on rates/valving/volume/viscosity etc etc to make the perfect suspension for my 87z for circuit racing, but it is now looking as though the k-frame, wishbones and knuckles will go so no need to build specific shock bodies...

The BC shocks, all be it budget solutions, have some great features you wouldn't normally get without spending a lot more money and are well manufactured with good product support IMHO.

Mr Bryant, Have you considered the RM series? They are only marginally more expensive, save on unsprung weight and are quite possibly stiffer by virtue of design.

This is my original thread on BM- Custom Coilovers (http://boostedmopar.com/forums/showthread.php?12720-manufacturing-custom-coilovers)

I have a full setup on my 87 GLHS right now but I still haven't finished the engine swap. Oh and there is that part about my frame getting pulled out to copy for everyone. :)

The RAM and ER series would be no problem for the front struts. We should be able to do RAM series rears but the ERs might be harder. I wouldn't recommend the RAM series because they don't tend to last as long as the BR series does.

The challenge is more about the mounting than the valving. I am targeting more of the economy crowd to get this going but after we get the initial batch made we could expand to the higher end.

-Rich

minigts
10-15-2010, 05:48 PM
Wait...the plates are INCLUDED?! AAGGGGHH!!!!!! You're killin' me Rich.....killin' me.

rbryant
10-15-2010, 06:09 PM
Wait...the plates are INCLUDED?! AAGGGGHH!!!!!! You're killin' me Rich.....killin' me.

This assumes that they actually make them... Originally I had planned on making an adapter bushing to use my plates with their struts. I even have the bushings in stock for it and I spent over $200 to make the bushings.

Then I got their plates for an SRT4 and they didn't quite work so I made some adapter plates for their adjusters and planned on selling those... Now they say they want to provide the adapter plates. IF they make them then the plates will be based on my design so they are compatible with the footprint of my plates.


I know what you are saying though. It wasn't my intention to sell people plates and then months later come up with something that could be considered better.

The plates I designed are still the best bet for running Koni struts or other existing coilover products which is what they were intended for in the first place... I still have inventory for my camber plates so I am killing myself too...

Their pricing structure is such that no matter what they include in the kit it is the same price so they are basically a free addon. The only extras I ever see them do are for rear camber plates on strut cars (which don't apply to us).

If it would make you feel better I can work on BCs without the plates for the same $1000 but others might not like it... :)

One thing to consider though is that the BC camber plates don't come with caster adjustment... I will see if I can get them to add it but right now they are camber only plates.

-Rich

minigts
10-15-2010, 06:21 PM
This assumes that they actually make them... Originally I had planned on making an adapter bushing to use my plates with their struts. I even have the bushings in stock for it and I spent over $200 to make the bushings.

Then I got their plates for an SRT4 and they didn't quite work so I made some adapter plates for their adjusters and planned on selling those... Now they say they want to provide the adapter plates. IF they make them then the plates will be based on my design so they are compatible with the footprint of my plates.


I know what you are saying though. It wasn't my intention to sell people plates and then months later come up with something that could be considered better.

The plates I designed are still the best bet for running Koni struts or other existing coilover products which is what they were intended for in the first place... I still have inventory for my camber plates so I am killing myself too...

Their pricing structure is such that no matter what they include in the kit it is the same price so they are basically a free addon. The only extras I ever see them do are for rear camber plates on strut cars (which don't apply to us).

If it would make you feel better I can work on BCs without the plates for the same $1000 but others might not like it... :)

One thing to consider though is that the BC camber plates don't come with caster adjustment... I will see if I can get them to add it but right now they are camber only plates.

-Rich

Oh I was just giving you a hard time. :) Believe me, I'm always impressed with your work. I don't have an immediate need for the struts, but I'll think about getting the setup for the future. As always, :thumb: :D

rbryant
10-15-2010, 06:27 PM
Oh I was just giving you a hard time. :) Believe me, I'm always impressed with your work. I don't have an immediate need for the struts, but I'll think about getting the setup for the future. As always, :thumb: :D

Thanks,

I can totally understand that it sucks to see a new thing come out right after you just bought the original camber plates.

These are a different application because they require the BCs but still I feel for you and can only say that it wasn't my intention to suddenly spring a new thing when I am still selling the old one.

-Rich

minigts
10-15-2010, 06:30 PM
Thanks,

I can totally understand that it sucks to see a new thing come out right after you just bought the original camber plates.

These are a different application because they require the BCs but still I feel for you and can only say that it wasn't my intention to suddenly spring a new thing when I am still selling the old one.

-Rich

Absolutely not man. I know you're always thinking and coming up with new ideas. If I can afford to do it I will. :)

Kreel
10-15-2010, 09:47 PM
This is a pretty sweet set-up. I'd be all over it if I didn't have a brand new pair of koni's sitting in my basement ;)

4cefedomni
10-16-2010, 03:19 AM
What are the odds of me getting a set of fronts only? The car they would be going on would be a rampage which uses a leaf spring in the rear
and shocks not a coil over like the rest of the omnis.

rbryant
10-16-2010, 03:32 PM
What are the odds of me getting a set of fronts only? The car they would be going on would be a rampage which uses a leaf spring in the rear
and shocks not a coil over like the rest of the omnis.

I can do that half kits aren't a problem but i need enough people to order the rears so that we can reasonably get them done.

I really need more people for the non lbody rears because those take more custom parts.

We are looking at some rampage solutions but most of them involve radically changing the rear end and modifying the bed. There just isn't much room for coil springs on a Rampage.

-Rich

4cefedomni
10-16-2010, 04:49 PM
I can do that half kits aren't a problem but i need enough people to order the rears so that we can reasonably get them done.

I really need more people for the non lbody rears because those take more custom parts.

We are looking at some rampage solutions but most of them involve radically changing the rear end and modifying the bed. There just isn't much room for coil springs on a Rampage.

-Rich

Are you saying you're developing a setup for rampages? Maybe I should hold out and wait for that instead?

turboz523
10-16-2010, 06:16 PM
so Rich you have adapters made up to use the bc stuff with your camber plates? If so I might be more interested in that since I'm going for as much positive caster as I can get and your plates are caster adjustable...that and I already opened up the holes and modified them some more to get an additional 1/2 degree positive :) Also, I'm wondering if my car might benefit from one of the higher levels of shock/strut that they offer, since I primarily autocross the car and the spring rates are going to be over 500lbs? What's your opinion on that?

DevoBuzz
10-16-2010, 07:16 PM
Sorry for my ignorance, but can we still use the stock lbody spindles if we put spacers in between the strut and spindle? Are the distance between the strut holes different?

Reaper1
10-16-2010, 09:06 PM
If I had the means to do this, I'd be all over it! Uggh....I HATE being broke! HATE IT!!

rbryant
10-17-2010, 04:02 AM
Are you saying you're developing a setup for rampages? Maybe I should hold out and wait for that instead?

The front will be the same as the charger so I would suggest getting that half kit.

I am looking into something for the rear of the Rampage but it is not very straight forward and would probably require modifications.

-Rich

rbryant
10-17-2010, 04:08 AM
so Rich you have adapters made up to use the bc stuff with your camber plates? If so I might be more interested in that since I'm going for as much positive caster as I can get and your plates are caster adjustable...that and I already opened up the holes and modified them some more to get an additional 1/2 degree positive :)


I have the adapter bushings for my plates ready to go so it is an option.

I will try to get them to add caster to the plates but I can't really guarantee that.

I can make a custom top plate that has the same footprint and caster adjustment as my originals that bolts to their center adjuster (that is what I currently have on my GLHS). The only downside to that is that I have to make the plates so they would probably be $100 extra or so If I have to make them where if they make them they just include them in the price.



Also, I'm wondering if my car might benefit from one of the higher levels of shock/strut that they offer, since I primarily autocross the car and the spring rates are going to be over 500lbs? What's your opinion on that?

Well the external reservoir (ER) struts are better. I think those are $1000 for just the fronts but I would have to double check on that price.

Either strut can take the 500lb springs but the ERs have more oil in the external reservoir and they are a true double adjustable strut.

I think you could run the ER fronts with the regular BR rears without a problem. Most of the work is done in the front of the car so that is where you really need the best stuff while the rear is kind of along for the ride.

The BRs still adjust both bound and rebound through their 30 way adjustment but it is from a single adjustment point so it is not an independent adjustment.

-Rich

rbryant
10-17-2010, 04:18 AM
Sorry for my ignorance, but can we still use the stock lbody spindles if we put spacers in between the strut and spindle? Are the distance between the strut holes different?

The lbody spindles are both narrower and they also adjust on the opposite bolt. The actual spacing is the same but the offset between the top and bottom is a little different.

I know that when people try to use Daytona spindles in lbody struts they have had issues with the camber angles not being right.

I haven't tried it but I think that if you ran lbody spindles in the neon strut with spacers your camber might be changed a bit. Considering that they come with a camber plate to adjust things it could probably be fixed in the top plate so that it would work.

I would however suggest that you upgrade your spindles to the 91+ non lbody style. Then you don't need any spacers, the spindle connection is stronger, and you have better brake options including the option of 11" front rotors. If you are serious enough to run these then you probably want the better spindle and brakes aswell.

-Rich

4cefedomni
10-18-2010, 04:47 AM
Any idea what just a set of fronts for an L body would cost?

rbryant
10-18-2010, 01:27 PM
Any idea what just a set of fronts for an L body would cost?

$500 for only the fronts.

They usually just charge the same for the front and rear.

-Rich

Username
10-18-2010, 04:31 PM
Depending on how soon you're looking for definite replies I may be in for a set for my csx-t. Just have to check finances when I get back from my honeymoon in november...we'll see how much she spends.:ballchain:

4cefedomni
10-18-2010, 09:32 PM
$500 for only the fronts.

They usually just charge the same for the front and rear.

-Rich


Sure twist my rubber arm why don't you:p
put me down for a set of fronts for an L body please. Hopefully these take a little while I'm still recovering from the K frame!

rbryant
10-18-2010, 09:38 PM
Sure twist my rubber arm why don't you:p
put me down for a set of fronts for an L body please. Hopefully these take a little while I'm still recovering from the K frame!

Kframe? What Kframe? j/k.

I should get the rest of the kframes back from powdercoating in a couple of days and I can ship them then.

I am marking you down for a front set. If everything goes well we will work on the Rampage rears too.

-Rich

TopDollar69
10-20-2010, 04:00 PM
This might seem like a stupid question, but are these gas charged, or can you change the oil in the cartridge?

rbryant
10-20-2010, 04:42 PM
This might seem like a stupid question, but are these gas charged, or can you change the oil in the cartridge?

They are a monotube shock so they will have a gas charge.

There is a warranty on the shocks and after the warranty is up they exchange out the shock body for $95 each plus shipping.

-Rich

csxtra
10-26-2010, 01:39 PM
Rich,

Will the BC camber plates require cutting the strut towers?

rbryant
10-26-2010, 02:27 PM
Rich,

Will the BC camber plates require cutting the strut towers?

The GJKHPA bodys wouldn't have camber adjustment unless the towers are modified. The hole in the stock tower is just too small. The lbody wouldn't require cutting.

For the GJKHPA cars I would probably make the plate with minimal adjustment that doesn't require cutting.

In thinking about it I might be able to come up with a design that will work for both people that cut and people that don't cut the towers. It will be a bit thicker than the stock design in order to recess the bolt tops but it should work well. Adjustment will be limited by the stock strut tower hole either way if it isn't enlarged. I will have to see what BC says about the design though.

If I can't get them to make the more complex design then the default would be to have a plate with no adjustment for the GJKHPA cars and we can work on an upgraded plate for those that are willing to cut the towers to get more adjustment. Even without the adjustment the rubber mount is removed which will give a more firm feel and eliminate extra sway from the suspension.

-Rich

Juggy
10-26-2010, 06:20 PM
$500 for only the fronts.

They usually just charge the same for the front and rear.

-Rich

does that include the camber plates?!

rbryant
10-26-2010, 06:36 PM
does that include the camber plates?!

If BC produces the full kit with camber plates then yes $500 would get you the front struts, springs, and camber plates.

If I have to make a custom piece to adapt them then it would be a little more but still $600 or less.

So if we get enough people signed up then the front setup would be very nice and very affordable.

-Rich

turboz523
10-27-2010, 09:38 AM
rich, at what point are you going to need a deposit. I'm ready whenever you're ready, autocross season is over, and I was able to just barely pull out a win in my class. I def. want this setup for next season so I can try to pull ahead a little further.

rbryant
10-27-2010, 02:43 PM
rich, at what point are you going to need a deposit. I'm ready whenever you're ready, autocross season is over, and I was able to just barely pull out a win in my class. I def. want this setup for next season so I can try to pull ahead a little further.

It will probably be a week or two assuming they bite for 8 orders.

I think they probably will because I already did a proof of concept using parts that they already have with a custom plate for the fronts. The rears should also be possible to build with parts that they have and a few extras.

I think I can build the Kcar camber plate so that the same one can be used for people that cut and don't cut the towers. I just have to use a low profile cap bolt and recess the groove. That way it will actually be below the top of the plate. Without cutting adjustment will be limited by the hole in the tower rather than the bolts. The only problem is that it people that don't cut would have to remove the strut to make camber adjustments (which would be limited anyway so they should probably just set it to center).

They would be a 3/8" plate instead of 1/4" but with the BC's there is no strut travel loss so it doesn't matter.

I just have to see how much influence I can have over BC's plate design. They will probably want to do it their own way but even if that happens these can be made as an upgrade if theirs don't meet everything that mine can do.

The only difference from what I did before is to add the recess instead of it being a pure 2D design. This also makes them side specific so the cost would be slightly higher than just making a bunch of the same 2D plates that can be used on both sides.

Proposed GJKHPA Plate:
26392

Proposed Lbody Plate:
26393


-Rich

Badger
10-30-2010, 07:49 PM
Rich,
any updates on all this stuff (especially the rampage rear stuff =)

rbryant
10-30-2010, 11:45 PM
Rich,
any updates on all this stuff (especially the rampage rear stuff =)

No updates on them. I think BC 's staff is all preparing for Sema so I didn't hear anything from them.

The rampage rear is a big project. There isn't room to change to a trailing arm coil spring setup and the leafs are either too high in the stock form or too low if the axle is flipped.

Vic and I are going to look at modifying the bed to take a shock tower which would be integrated into the wheel well (like the charger/omni rear) but it will take a while to get that all worked out.

-Rich

DOHCRT
10-31-2010, 12:07 AM
I just moved the Rampage into the on-deck position:eyebrows: Updates should start happening soon...;)

Vic in Phoenix

92 Spirit R/T
89 CSX
88 CSX-TIII
87 CSX
87 Shelby Lancer (Parts for Sale)
84 Rampage TII
97 Ram (Buzzin Half Dozen)
69 Dart GT 'Vert
73 Dart Sport (For Sale)

Badger
10-31-2010, 12:16 AM
sounds great! I know you two will come up with something that works awsome!

rbryant
11-15-2010, 04:36 PM
Quick update:

I talked to BC today and he said he would check with the manufacturer about if they can start a new product with only 6 initial orders or not. Given that there are very few new parts to make it could happen.

If it goes to production it looks like they will probably need me to send them some stock components which would then be shipped overseas so that they can verify that things are done correctly. After that point they would send me the prototype to test.

If they reject the idea of building them then I might still be able to get them but it would add some cost and possibly not allow for a warranty... If there is no warranty then the replacement cartridges are $95 each.

Now if we got another 5 or so people on each kit that would help. :)

-Rich

Reaper1
11-15-2010, 09:45 PM
Well...let me win that Powerball and I'll get you those other 5 orders! ;)

rbryant
11-16-2010, 03:35 AM
Well...let me win that Powerball and I'll get you those other 5 orders! ;)

I am waiting for them to accidentally send me the money. It is cheaper than playing and the odds are the same. Plus the accidental money is tax free!

-Rich

Austrian Dodge
11-16-2010, 04:41 AM
rich, as those stock parts need to go overseas, i could help you out with some stock suspension from my 92 daytona parts car or get something from the JY.


lmk

janus
11-16-2010, 08:00 AM
@andreas: i could imagine sending my stock 92 parts over there when taking over your MP/KYB/Eibach suspension ;)

Austrian Dodge
11-16-2010, 08:32 AM
this would put my car in a non-drivable status until the BC coilovers are done. can't do that ;)

janus
11-16-2010, 08:42 AM
haha, as if you were using it as a daily driver xD we all know that a turbo dodge's typical habitat is sitting on jacks with the hood popped and the engine compartment torn into pieces ;)
nah it's okay, but depending on when you'd be ready to hand me down your suspension i could imagine starting to pull MY struts/shocks/springs (i take it these are the parts needed?)..

MopàrBCN
11-16-2010, 10:09 AM
I would be: G BODY and Rear and Front

rbryant
11-16-2010, 12:49 PM
rich, as those stock parts need to go overseas, i could help you out with some stock suspension from my 92 daytona parts car or get something from the JY.


lmk

Thanks for the offer.

I think if I just ship them to Florida where their US headquarters is they will cover the rest.

I already sent them the rear shocks from a closeout on rockauto so I now just need to see if there are some cheap springs and struts.

-Rich

Shadow
11-17-2010, 12:09 AM
I will post some pictures of my prototype kit shortly.

-Rich

How shortly?

omni_840
11-17-2010, 01:07 AM
How shortly?


+1 lets see these prototypes:nod:

rbryant
11-17-2010, 03:02 AM
+1 lets see these prototypes:nod:

Man it is like you guys want to hold me to what I say or something... ;)

Sorry for the delay. I don't have everything back together but here are some shots.

The Fronts are pretty straight forward. I made top plates that have the identical footprint to my koni coilover plates:

Note: The GJKHPA fronts are the same with the exception of a different top plate.

Front Pics:
There are actually 3 bolt holes on the back side and front side but if you go for max camber/caster only the outside 2 can be used. I would plan on fixing this in production by recessing the bolt tops. That will also allow for more adjustment on cars that don't have their towers cut.
26723
(no comments about soft/hard please...) :)


full view
26713

view of top plate from the bottom side.
26714

Before Install:
26715
Notice that the insert threads into the bottom so no strut travel is lost when lowering.


Check out the bearing in the top of the spring hat. This makes it so that the spherical bearing doesn't have to both turn and pivot.
26716


Charger Rear BC Shock Pics:

The rears were the big problem on the prototypes because none of their off the shelf shocks had a long enough threaded portion to go through our bushings. I fought with this for a long time before coming up with a solution.
26717

26718

Yes that is indeed a MAG lugnut that has the correct thread and the same diameter and spacing as the stock lbody spacer... I just step drilled the top washer out to 11/16 and now the Mag lugnut goes through and acts as the top nut and an extension.
26726
26727

Normally the back shocks have a knob like the front ones but in this case I can just use a 3mm extended length T allen wrench to do the adjusting. They are under the fender covers so this makes for a smaller hole anyway...


Johnnys bushings are thicker than stock so I added an extra bushing in the mix because the rubber bushing is supposed to match the length of the steel spacer and that is why they don't over tighten. If the bushing is too thick it won't tighten down correctly.
26719


Hopefully a full production shock wouldn't require the MAG lugnut but it really isn't a bad solution IMO... I can live with it just fine on my car and the hollow tube will be just as strong as the smaller strut shaft anyway.



Full view (including my rear vented rotors that are currently installed with a 1/8" annodized wheel spacer.) I plan on switching to 1G neon rotors spaced out to work with non vented backing plates soon.
26720

The clearance on the bottom is tight but it doesn't hit.
26721

Top Bushing installed.
26722

Before Install:
26725
Adjustment is actually limited by the collars hitting not by the insert threading into the bottom. They could be made lower by going with a 1" shorter spring (but they go pretty low).

csxtra
11-17-2010, 10:46 AM
Rich,

Quick question: On the GJKHPA body rear shocks, how will the stiff/soft damping adjustments be made?

I'm hoping it will be easier than current Koni setup where you have to unbolt the shock, compress it, then turn the shock body to get the desired damping.

Clay
11-17-2010, 11:47 AM
this is interesting. Ive been thinking about running a set of coil overs in the front of my GLHT. Ill keep an eye on this one.

rbryant
11-17-2010, 12:47 PM
Rich,

Quick question: On the GJKHPA body rear shocks, how will the stiff/soft damping adjustments be made?

I'm hoping it will be easier than current Koni setup where you have to unbolt the shock, compress it, then turn the shock body to get the desired damping.

It would be a dial on the side of the shock shaft.

No need to remove them.

-Rich

csxtra
11-17-2010, 04:20 PM
Great! That was what I was hoping to hear.

Thanks again Rich

cordes
11-17-2010, 09:42 PM
If they come through with production I think you'll have a winner Rich. Nice work.

AzShadow
11-21-2010, 04:09 AM
looks pretty sweet! on an unrelated note im currently waiting on a set of bcs for the gto :) ive heard nothing but good things about them

Badger
11-21-2010, 02:40 PM
is this group buy gonna happen? Ive been patiently waiting =)

54inches
11-21-2010, 03:10 PM
and....subscribe.......

rbryant
11-21-2010, 03:51 PM
is this group buy gonna happen? Ive been patiently waiting =)

I understand.

They haven't informed me about a decision. I will call this week and figure it out one way or another.

-Rich

88C/S
11-22-2010, 02:23 AM
I am interested in this group buy, if it isn't too late. I have a Daytona C/S.

Badger
11-27-2010, 03:44 PM
Rich,
any updates? Have you made a descision about the group buy? What about the rampage stuff....anything new on that end?

Badger.......

black86glhs
11-27-2010, 05:26 PM
My wife will kill me, but I'll do it if it comes to light.:thumb:

rbryant
11-27-2010, 09:48 PM
Rich,
any updates? Have you made a descision about the group buy? What about the rampage stuff....anything new on that end?

Badger.......


They said they hadn't decided yet last week. It really isn't my decision now so we just have to wait and see.

Nothing new on the Rampage. That suspension is a lot of work and doesn't lead to very easy modification so it will just be a while.

If you want to stick with the leaf springs then I can do something for just the shocks but otherwise gettting away from the leafs will take a lot of R&D (probably on Vic's Rampage).

-Rich

Badger
11-28-2010, 12:11 AM
Rich,
Id rather ditch the leafs if at all possible. I know you and Vic will come up with something really sick.......but its so hard to be patient =) As far as the group buy goes if it happens, you KNOW Im in!!

rbryant
12-08-2010, 03:18 PM
Well I don't have an answer yet on the kits yet but their business is slowing down so they should have more time for new development now.

I am now an official vendor so I can sell any of their existing kits though...

If anyone needs a coilover kit for their 1G Neon, SRT4, SRT8, etc let me know. :)

-Rich

mcsvt
12-08-2010, 03:47 PM
That's great Rich, I'll come to you for the kit for my Magnum then! I'd guess it's the standard pricing?

rbryant
12-08-2010, 04:14 PM
That's great Rich, I'll come to you for the kit for my Magnum then! I'd guess it's the standard pricing?

Yea the prices are basically fixed...

Most sets including the Charger SRT-8 are $1000 a set shipped. I can also do front half kits but there is an extra $75 handling charge and a 2-3 week delay when doing that.

I just get a slice of the profit and pay them the wholesale rate and deal with all of the taxes, paypal fees, etc.

PM me when you are ready and we can arrange payment. I will work on getting a paypal page setup. A Money order is actually better considering the cut paypal would take on $1000 but we can figure it out.

-Rich

4cefedomni
12-08-2010, 04:54 PM
Rich I got a question. If I were to get a set of srt4 knuckles and a set of the bc coilovers for an srt4 to put on my rampage. What are my options for a camber plate/strut bearing plate?
Is it possible to adapt the srt camber plate to work in the lbody? Or is it as simple as drilling a couple new holes in the strut towers?

rbryant
12-08-2010, 05:13 PM
Rich I got a question. If I were to get a set of srt4 knuckles and a set of the bc coilovers for an srt4 to put on my rampage. What are my options for a camber plate/strut bearing plate?
Is it possible to adapt the srt camber plate to work in the lbody? Or is it as simple as drilling a couple new holes in the strut towers?

The top plate that comes with the SRT4 kit can work but it only has camber adjustment. It is also too narrow to add extra bolts to the top of the strut tower.

In order to fix this I made a custom plate that you can see in the above pictures (the bare aluminum part). That plate is based on components from the SRT4 camber plates and simply replaces the one that comes from BC. I made it in the same exact footprint as my custom camber plates so it fits the charger perfectly. I can do the same ting with a non lbody but it would require either cutting the tower or making a more expensive plate where the bolt heads are recessed (also discussed above).

If you use SRT4 spindles I can provide my top plates for an extra $75. and the reinforcing plates I will throw in cheap for $25.

The SRT4 spindle will work pretty well. In stock form the brake calipers are 58mm so they are a little smaller than the RT brakes but you can upgrade them to a willwood kit or even run dual piston calipers from the non SRT V8 300c with them (they bolt on).

So basically you are looking at another $100 right now for the extras to adapt the SRT4 kit into what I have. The only difference is that I used a 1G neon spindle mount so that I could run the 91+ 11" brakes without any spacers or modifications to the strut or spindles.

The other option is that I can make some spacers to put on each side of the 91+ spindle so that they fit in the SRT4 strut. I am happy to have them made because it would help my brake pad sales. :)

I am avoiding doing this stuff until I hear back from BC and whether they would include it all for free with a kit or not. I just don't want to charge someone $120 more for parts that I make if BC will end up making them for free....

I can also get inverted and external reservoir versions of the struts if someone wants the best of the best but they cost more... I am pretty sure they are $125 more for the inverted and $425 more for the External Reservoir (but i have to confirm that with BC).

-Rich

4cefedomni
12-08-2010, 05:45 PM
The plan was to use the 12.2" 4 piston wilwood kit with the srt knuckles.

The inverted struts would probably be really cool and help get rid of some unsprung weight.

rbryant
12-08-2010, 05:58 PM
The plan was to use the 12.2" 4 piston wilwood kit with the srt knuckles.

The inverted struts would probably be really cool and help get rid of some unsprung weight.

They remove some weight but from what I understand the design tends to be more prone to failure.

If you want to run the willwoods then I would suggest the SRT4 spindles. I suggest contacting Todd @ TCE about the kit. I have thought about creating a willwood kit for our spindles with Todd (he is a local Phoenix guy) but it is just another thing on the back burner.

Anyway when you are ready just let me know and I can the SRT4 half kit for you right away. Then you just have to figure out something for the rear of the rampage....

-Rich

4cefedomni
12-08-2010, 06:33 PM
I don't think I'll have time before SDAC but I want to build a tube rear subframe for dual control arms and use coilover shocks off a motorcycle. The ones on my pitbike are compression and rebound adjustable as well as preload on the spring and they have 1000lb/in springs on them. So I'll probably have to design a bit of a cantilever into thier mount to so they arent too stiff. But they are only 11" to the centers of the bushings so they should be easier to fit under the rampage rear end.

rbryant
12-10-2010, 01:45 PM
If anyone needs BC coilovers for their Neon, SRT4, SRT8, etc I am now setup to sell them:

http://rbryant.freeshell.org/bc_coilovers.htm

For people that want BC fronts ASAP and are willing to pay for a kit to adapt them to SRT4 fronts I can also do that. They are an extra $75 to do the half kit (handling fee from BC) and an extra $100 for the top plates that fit our cars. I currently have a couple of lbody top plates and can make the non lbody plates.

Keep in mind that if they approve the full kits the adapter kits would no longer be needed (so some money would be wasted) so only get them if you either can't wait don't mind the extra cost.

Running SRT4 front spindles is an option right now aswell but that also means that it is a half kit (with the extra $75 charge) that requires the adapter plates ($100) and I don't have the rears ready yet so if/when they come they would also be a rear half kit (another $75 charge).

So I would still suggest waiting to see what happens for another couple of weeks but I wanted to give everyone the current options and status...

-Rich

Austrian Dodge
12-11-2010, 08:34 AM
thats some good news! i'll be waiting for the approval - ER series FTW :)

30 PSI SHADOW
12-15-2010, 12:33 AM
Ok, im interested,this would be for my L body rampage. Although, im confused. If i just want the fronts, what is the total cost?

rbryant
12-15-2010, 12:33 PM
Ok, im interested,this would be for my L body rampage. Although, im confused. If i just want the fronts, what is the total cost?

If BC makes the full kit then $575. Apparently there is an extra handling charge of $75 for half kits now...

If they don't offer the real kit then we can do an SRT4 half kit with some adapters that adds another $100.

-Rich

daver
12-15-2010, 11:01 PM
Is anybody actually running the SRT spindles on an older FWD Mopar at this point? I think the SRT uses a narrower steering rack, so to run SRT spindles on the older cars you'd have to cut some threads off the inner tie-rod ends and crank the outer ends on further.

The non-turbo manual trans PT spindles accept the same brake setup and would probably be an easier swap. May end up with better steering geometry as well..

Shadow
12-16-2010, 09:51 AM
Is anybody actually running the SRT spindles on an older FWD Mopar at this point? I think the SRT uses a narrower steering rack, so to run SRT spindles on the older cars you'd have to cut some threads off the inner tie-rod ends and crank the outer ends on further.

The non-turbo manual trans PT spindles accept the same brake setup and would probably be an easier swap. May end up with better steering geometry as well..

That would be interesting as the SRT 4 tracks about the same width as the G bodies. So, way different spindle geometry?

I'll have to measure the rack now and see if it would indeed be a fit for an L-body. :thumb:

Force Fed Mopar
12-16-2010, 10:14 AM
Is anybody actually running the SRT spindles on an older FWD Mopar at this point? I think the SRT uses a narrower steering rack, so to run SRT spindles on the older cars you'd have to cut some threads off the inner tie-rod ends and crank the outer ends on further.

The non-turbo manual trans PT spindles accept the same brake setup and would probably be an easier swap. May end up with better steering geometry as well..

DodgeZ has SRT front spindles and struts w/ coil-overs on his GLHS. Originally I got the spindles and Wilwood big brake kit off a wrecked Stage 3 SRT that came into the junkyard I was working at then, and we installed it all in the Omni. We used the Neon tie rod ends on the stock rack and pinion w/o having to cut anything. We later removed the Wilwoods (they were 12.2 rotors, his 15" wheels w/ slicks wouldn't fit over them) and installed PT Cruiser front brakes, which are basically the same as the SRT except the calipers don't say Turbo on them :). Setup has been working fine for a while now. I think we used a spindle bolt washer (the double-hole one from where the strut attaches, dunno what the real name is for it) on either side of the spindle to take up the slack in the spindle tang (Neon spindle is thinker than an L-body).

I thinking he made a FAQ/How-To thread about the whole swap on BM, look there for all the details.

rbryant
12-16-2010, 01:15 PM
DodgeZ has SRT front spindles and struts w/ coil-overs on his GLHS. Originally I got the spindles and Wilwood big brake kit off a wrecked Stage 3 SRT that came into the junkyard I was working at then, and we installed it all in the Omni. We used the Neon tie rod ends on the stock rack and pinion w/o having to cut anything. We later removed the Wilwoods (they were 12.2 rotors, his 15" wheels w/ slicks wouldn't fit over them) and installed PT Cruiser front brakes, which are basically the same as the SRT except the calipers don't say Turbo on them :). Setup has been working fine for a while now. I think we used a spindle bolt washer (the double-hole one from where the strut attaches, dunno what the real name is for it) on either side of the spindle to take up the slack in the spindle tang (Neon spindle is thinker than an L-body).

I thinking he made a FAQ/How-To thread about the whole swap on BM, look there for all the details.

I can have some custom spacers made to take up the difference in spindle thickness if people want to run the RT brakes on the SRT4 struts. That way I can sell more brakes.

The SRT4 spindle should work just fine but I still like the bolt in wheel bearing on the RT spindle. The stock RT brake caliper is 60mm where the SRT4 is only 58mm so you get more brakes with the RT spindle.

-Rich

rbryant
12-22-2010, 04:25 AM
Well it looks like BC is not going to do the full kit for us afterall.

I called them again today and they said they won't be able to do it.

I am able to get SRT4 front half kits for $500 plus $75 handing so if people are interested in those that is probably the best best for BC coilovers.

I also finished drawing up some spacer plates to use the RT spindles with the SRT4 struts. The SRT4 spindle is about .300-.310" wider than the RT spindle so I plan on making two .155" spacers that go on each side of the spindle to adapt it. I drew them to match the shape of the spindle so they will be very hard to see.

Here is a proposed picture of one:

27618

I can include a custom top plate for the BC SRT4 coilovers and these adapters for $100 so the cost would be $675 shipped for the BR fronts. The rears are unfortunately not going to happen. I can also get ERs and Inverted struts versions if people want those I just have to check on the pricing of a half kit for the higher end struts.


I also contacted Ksport today to see what they can do for me. They got some initial bad reviews a couple of years ago but I believe they have fixed many of their problems. I will see if I can work something out with them.

Who would be interested in Ksports instead of BCs if I can get a full kit from them?

-Rich

omni_840
12-22-2010, 01:27 PM
Depnding on price I would be interested:nod:

rbryant
12-22-2010, 01:36 PM
Depnding on price I would be interested:nod:

KSports should be about the same prices as bc they also have inverted and external reservoir versions of their stuff.

Force Fed Mopar
12-22-2010, 09:31 PM
Can you not adapt/have them adapt their DSM coil-overs? We've already installed them successfully on L-bodies. Very little mods necessary.

rbryant
12-22-2010, 09:58 PM
Can you not adapt/have them adapt their DSM coil-overs? We've already installed them successfully on L-bodies. Very little mods necessary.

You can order a half kit if you want to I was trying to get everything bolt on and it got shut down. The non lbody rear was probably what really killed us because it would take a lot more work than the lbody rear.

The eclipse rears weren't quite the right lengths off the shelf and they also had the top nut problem (where it wasn't long enough but I have since solved that with the mag lugnut). I was trying to use a VW bottom on the eclipse stuff in order to get the perfect bottom mount without needing any type of spacer so perhaps that became the length issue but I doubt it. They would have worked but they would not have allowed any lowering.

At any rate they don't want to mix and match anymore so unless you want to chance it by buy an eclipse rear kit and an SRT4 front kit the Ksports are the next option.... I bet if they start seeing orders for a front half kit for one car and a rear half kit from another car from the same person that it will also get shut down pretty quickly....

The Eclipse shocks also have the wrong spring hats/mounts so it would still require extra parts... So basically I did go down that road.

-Rich

Force Fed Mopar
12-22-2010, 10:54 PM
The dsm fronts would bolt right on if they widened the flange opening slightly and drilled the SRT bolt pattern into it. Or if they just put the SRT flange onto the DSM strut. You just remove the third stud in the top hat and the other 2 will pretty much go right into the existing holes, possibly very slight slotting needed. I have DSM fronts bolted in my GLHS right now, I just added a new lower hole.

The rear is pretty easy to convert too, but I'd have to assemble one again to tell you exactly. Basically just have to install the L-body top hat. If you want I can do this if it will help get a kit made up. T3rse has DSM struts all way round in his GLH-T also, although I don't think he's online much anymore due to school/work.

rbryant
12-23-2010, 01:13 AM
The dsm fronts would bolt right on if they widened the flange opening slightly and drilled the SRT bolt pattern into it. Or if they just put the SRT flange onto the DSM strut. You just remove the third stud in the top hat and the other 2 will pretty much go right into the existing holes, possibly very slight slotting needed. I have DSM fronts bolted in my GLHS right now, I just added a new lower hole.

The rear is pretty easy to convert too, but I'd have to assemble one again to tell you exactly. Basically just have to install the L-body top hat. If you want I can do this if it will help get a kit made up. T3rse has DSM struts all way round in his GLH-T also, although I don't think he's online much anymore due to school/work.

I know the details but they aren't going to do it. I don't like the dsm fronts because if someone goes this far with things then imo they should also get the newer brakes with the thicker stronger spindle.

If you would like the full dsm kit then you can order it from my webpage. :)

-rich

Garffus
12-23-2010, 08:00 AM
Well it looks like BC is not going to do the full kit for us afterall.

I can pick up where i left off if you want Rich. I backed out of what i was doing because of the prospect of just ordering them from you. Im not interested/don't have time and am on the wrong continent to be selling them, so if a good setup can be got together over here for the non-L bodies F&R, lets do it and get a batch shipped over. I did all this 5+ years ago as a one off setup for my Z before my workshop was broken into. If i was to use GAZ again, they are local and use the car to develop the perfect valving for us and we can go as far as we want with setup options. They DO NOT manufacture camber plates usually so your ones would be ideal to match up. We would use my RT for developing them, which is pretty much the heaviest car right?

Don't give in yet, this is one of the biggest lacking areas of tuning for our cars.

Force Fed Mopar
12-23-2010, 10:41 AM
I know the details but they aren't going to do it. I don't like the dsm fronts because if someone goes this far with things then imo they should also get the newer brakes with the thicker stronger spindle.

If you would like the full dsm kit then you can order it from my webpage. :)

-rich

The L-body spindle is thicker than the DSM... but whatever. I don't have the money to buy a kit, otherwise I would have done it long ago. I was just trying to help out :) Anyway, no worries, if they aren't interested there's only so much you can do.

rbryant
12-23-2010, 11:57 AM
The L-body spindle is thicker than the DSM... but whatever. I don't have the money to buy a kit, otherwise I would have done it long ago. I was just trying to help out :) Anyway, no worries, if they aren't interested there's only so much you can do.

I understand that you are trying to help but I have already been down the road. Even with them not having to modify anything they don't want to mix and match parts. The main office felt that there were too many warranty and liability issues unless they fully tested the setup. I offered to test it and they still didn't want to deal with the hassle for less than 20 kits.

Exactly there is only so much I can do. There are some other issues that make colivers harder to adapt than normal struts:

They have to have the correct angles on the top plates or the camber adjustment doesn't work.
The strut shafts are machined specifically to the spring hats and mounts. On the normal ones you can just slide them farther down the shaft but that doesn't work so well on a coilover. The other issue is that we only have about 4-5" of travel on a coilover and then it adjusts the height seperately. If you do something to cut into the travel with the mount it really messes things up.

-Rich

---------- Post added at 08:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 AM ----------


I can pick up where i left off if you want Rich. I backed out of what i was doing because of the prospect of just ordering them from you. Im not interested/don't have time and am on the wrong continent to be selling them, so if a good setup can be got together over here for the non-L bodies F&R, lets do it and get a batch shipped over. I did all this 5+ years ago as a one off setup for my Z before my workshop was broken into. If i was to use GAZ again, they are local and use the car to develop the perfect valving for us and we can go as far as we want with setup options. They DO NOT manufacture camber plates usually so your ones would be ideal to match up. We would use my RT for developing them, which is pretty much the heaviest car right?

Don't give in yet, this is one of the biggest lacking areas of tuning for our cars.

I am not giving up yet. I am just going to switch companies.

I am going to see what Ksport has to offer.

They are local to me so I can go to their shop compare struts in person, etc and that should make it happen.

Ksport had some issues a few years back but I believe that they have upgraded significantly since then.

BC just simply doesn't have the time or staffing to deal with us because they are looking to expand their line to newer cars not older ones.

The guy at Ksport seemed initially interested so hopefully that will go well.

-Rich

Garffus
12-23-2010, 12:44 PM
Yeah the whole ethos of BC is to keep the overheads to an absolute minimum, to keep the price down... I spoke with KSports HO in Taiwan where the units are manufactured, they are who i was heading towards post GAZ. They have been through all this with me. They are all but ready to build them, i just didn't pull the trigger. They have a lot of options available to us including super-light weight drag only setups, massive travel and super strong gravel / rally bodies and obviously the street and track setups. They are very helpful and obliging people. The only thing i didn't like so much was that i could not have the cartridges valved to the car, it would have to be done on educated guess work rather than the electronic systems GAZ use to give real world research for high speed, mid speed and low speed bump, h, m & low speed bound, reaction time, volume etc etc etc....

The UK KSport dealer has pulled out of supplying their coilovers because of complaints, that are all about noise and clonking, which is down to the top mount, and will be the same on any pillow ball mount that experiences heavy use, or just bad roads like we have here. Takes less than 1thou to make them rattle like a roll bar drop link is dead, or your suspension is literally falling apart. Your probably aware of all this, but i know ksport are having (or were having) real issues with what must have been too soft a material for the spherical mount, but it is not damage, they will just always be like that, a bit clunky!

We love importing Jap motors here, that all clonk within 2-3 weeks because of the JIC or HKS or whatever coilovers with hard top mounts that have been fine for the last 5 years cruising round glass smooth jap roads, but destroy themselves when they hit a pothole. You can get round it with exotic materials for lining the pillow, but you end up building a bloody expensive kit...

Anyway, i like KSport and they are bloody good value!

If you don't get on with the local people, go to the source, they all speak Ing-lish and want their coilovers on every car in the world! I was told short runs of 10 or more are acceptable, but obviously get a lot cheaper with volume...

Austrian Dodge
12-23-2010, 05:30 PM
i'm still in, wether its KSports, BC or GAZ ;)

rbryant
12-23-2010, 06:46 PM
i'm still in, wether its KSports, BC or GAZ ;)

Ok I will let you guys know... I might start fresh Ksport thread...

If you happen to want SRT4 fronts I can get those now. If you want to you can run those with SRT4 spindles and all you would need is the top plates. BC SRT4 top plates can also work but they don't have any caster adjustment.

If you want RT spindle spacers and a camber/caster top plate I can make those.

-Rich

Austrian Dodge
12-24-2010, 04:36 AM
i currently have my hands on some srt4 spindles from another member on here, just waiting on a shipping quote. I guess i can use my existing tie rod ends and ball joints, no?
I'd run the SRT fronts with your top plate then - and most likely the ER series.

But i can wait a couple of weeks for the other manufactures decision, as i need to finish some other things anyways. so there's no need to rush from my end.

rbryant
01-07-2011, 06:22 PM
i currently have my hands on some srt4 spindles from another member on here, just waiting on a shipping quote. I guess i can use my existing tie rod ends and ball joints, no?
I'd run the SRT fronts with your top plate then - and most likely the ER series.

But i can wait a couple of weeks for the other manufactures decision, as i need to finish some other things anyways. so there's no need to rush from my end.

KSport is willing to make the kits for us BUT...

We need to have 10 of each application and 50% down with an 8 week turnaround time on them.

So I guess we need to round up a few more people to make it happen.


They did say that they have made several improvements over the past few years and have an in house shock dyno to maintain quality control. Several local people have recently changed from a koni/ground control setup to the KSports and measured good improvements at the track.

-Rich

cordes
01-07-2011, 06:30 PM
KSport is willing to make the kits for us BUT...

We need to have 10 of each application and 50% down with an 8 week turnaround time on them.

So I guess we need to round up a few more people to make it happen.


They did say that they have made several improvements over the past few years and have an in house shock dyno to maintain quality control. Several local people have recently changed from a koni/ground control setup to the KSports and measured good improvements at the track.

-Rich

I'm not interested at the moment, but do you have any links with pertinent info?

rbryant
01-10-2011, 01:35 PM
I'm not interested at the moment, but do you have any links with pertinent info?

http://www.ksportusa.com/asp/coilovers.asp
http://www.ksportusa.com/asp/press_release.asp?press_id=28

The big thing is that we need 10 cars in each application... Unless people dedicate their tax refunds to this I don't see it happening anytime soon. :(

-Rich

Shadow
01-10-2011, 03:16 PM
So these are fully aluminum construction?

iTurbo
01-10-2011, 09:12 PM
I'm starting to warm up to the idea of coil overs for my own cars as I learn more. I guess I'm just one of those people that would be happy if only the stock K-based Koni shocks and struts were still available. No dedicated track cars here, just a lot of daily driver/weekend warrior types.

Would the K-sport stuff include all of the stuff you listed in post #1? Price still ~$1000? What about the rears, is that going to a bolt-in deal or require welding?

rbryant
01-10-2011, 09:23 PM
I'm starting to warm up to the idea of coil overs for my own cars as I learn more. I guess I'm just one of those people that would be happy if only the stock K-based Koni shocks and struts were still available. No dedicated track cars here, just a lot of daily driver/weekend warrior types.

Would the K-sport stuff include all of the stuff you listed in post #1? Price still ~$1000? What about the rears, is that going to a bolt-in deal or require welding?

If we can get hte 10 people then it would include everything.

It would also be a bolt on product. The only thing I can see as a problem for the GJKHPA cars is that the strut tower hole is too small to allow adjustment of the camber plates from the top. Unless the hole is enlarged the struts would have to be removed in order to adjust them. Adjustment would also be limited by the size of the hole because the camber plate top nut can only move so far inside of that ~2.5" hole.

-Rich

cordes
01-10-2011, 09:30 PM
http://www.ksportusa.com/asp/coilovers.asp
http://www.ksportusa.com/asp/press_release.asp?press_id=28

The big thing is that we need 10 cars in each application... Unless people dedicate their tax refunds to this I don't see it happening anytime soon. :(

-Rich

Thanks for the links Rich. Those look nice.

rbryant
01-10-2011, 09:31 PM
So these are fully aluminum construction?

Hmm I thought I replied to this one already but I don't see it in the thread...

It says in the description that the strut body is steel. I believe that the bottom mounts are forged aluminum on the Ksports. I can call and check if you would like. If there is interest I can also drop by their shop and check them out in person and report back.

Overall there are tradeoffs between steel and aluminum. I would rather see steel personally for the strength but aluminum is better for weight.

-Rich

Shadow
01-11-2011, 04:07 AM
I would rather see steel personally for the strength but aluminum is better for weight.

-Rich

The later part of that statement is all that's been on my mind lately. In the description it sounded like they went to some lengths to develope a very durable aluminum, was just curious how much of the construction it made up. Finished weight? ;)

Garffus
01-11-2011, 09:50 AM
...ksport can build you an all-ally body for drag racing, absolutely minimum weight and valving completely geared around launching as best as possible, but drive down the road and hit a pothole and you'll brake them... conversely they will build you grass-track or rally struts that are all cold rolled steel and very very thick tubes, for ultimate strength, but much higher unsprung weight etc.

Its all in the application, the normal street/strip coilovers they do are somewhere in the middle and are not the ultimate at anything, but they would represent a vast improvement over our stock setups, including the Konis. I thought there would be 50+ people fighting over these right from the off.

Out of interest, how old are the 'newest' Konis now? and can you still get replacement inserts? because i would imagine most 10yr+ old Konis offer absolutely no improvement over new stock shocks any more, apart from the addition of some minor adjustment, the dampers will be completely torn out, like any other 10 year old/100,000 mile damper would...

cordes
01-11-2011, 11:55 AM
...ksport can build you an all-ally body for drag racing, absolutely minimum weight and valving completely geared around launching as best as possible, but drive down the road and hit a pothole and you'll brake them... conversely they will build you grass-track or rally struts that are all cold rolled steel and very very thick tubes, for ultimate strength, but much higher unsprung weight etc.

Its all in the application, the normal street/strip coilovers they do are somewhere in the middle and are not the ultimate at anything, but they would represent a vast improvement over our stock setups, including the Konis. I thought there would be 50+ people fighting over these right from the off.

Out of interest, how old are the 'newest' Konis now? and can you still get replacement inserts? because i would imagine most 10yr+ old Konis offer absolutely no improvement over new stock shocks any more, apart from the addition of some minor adjustment, the dampers will be completely torn out, like any other 10 year old/100,000 mile damper would...

I believe the L body stuff can still be rebuilt for a decent price.

Garffus
01-11-2011, 01:10 PM
I believe the L body stuff can still be rebuilt for a decent price.
Well that does makes a difference, but the rest of us should all still have spangly coilovers!

RB - How many orders are you short of getting a first batch shipped now?

Reaper1
01-11-2011, 01:21 PM
All Konis can be rebuilt, but you're gonna have to pay regardless of whether it's K or L based. I personally know there are some sets of brand new, never installed K-based Konis out there. ;-)

Also keep in mind that you can have the Konis revalved for any application you want. I *think* I remember Lee Grimes saying that the front struts can be converted to double adjustable, but it's not cheap. The rear K-based can't. They can be revalved and rebuilt and tuned, but they will always be single adjustable.

rbryant
01-11-2011, 01:41 PM
Well that does makes a difference, but the rest of us should all still have spangly coilovers!

RB - How many orders are you short of getting a first batch shipped now?

Probably 4 of each type given that some of the lbody orders are front only.

It will take a couple of months once I have the orders but I guess that is just how it goes.

-Rich

---------- Post added at 10:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 AM ----------


All Konis can be rebuilt, but you're gonna have to pay regardless of whether it's K or L based. I personally know there are some sets of brand new, never installed K-based Konis out there. ;-)

Also keep in mind that you can have the Konis revalved for any application you want. I *think* I remember Lee Grimes saying that the front struts can be converted to double adjustable, but it's not cheap. The rear K-based can't. They can be revalved and rebuilt and tuned, but they will always be single adjustable.

The BCs and Ksports can also be custom valved if we can get them into production. They also offer extra options like inverted versions and external reservoir versions. The fact that they include the top plates also makes them much cheaper overall and can also be dual adjustable in the higher end models.

Preserving strut travel when lowering is also really nice and something that the Konis just can't do.

The Konis are also a fine solution but they will eventually run out and a true coilover offers a lot more options from street use all the way to track use or even rally use.

-Rich

Reaper1
01-11-2011, 11:26 PM
Oh, I wasn't arguing AGAINST what you are going after, Rich! LOL

I was just saying that the Koni's CAN be rebuilt, that's all....

Reeves
01-12-2011, 10:13 AM
Ken Adler took his Koni's from his 87 GLHS in to Koni America to be rebuilt a few years ago and they said they no longer have the parts to rebuild the rears. They did however modify a set of Mustang parts to fit in his stock rear Koni's.


Edit (added stuff below):

I took a front set of NEW yellow Koni's (sport?) in to Koni to be rebuilt. I only used them one race before they started leaking. The Koni people were VERY helpful and I even had them go up a stage or two on the rebound valving. I even asked how stiff could I make them on the rebound to which the guy at Koni responded "I can make them broomsticks if you want me too!" LOL. I told them I needed them done right away, and they told me it takes up to two days for the powdercoat to cure. Since they were knew, I told them not to worry about re-powdercoating them. I dropped them off on lunch break on Monday, and they called me Tuesday morning before I even got to work to let me know they were done!!!

FYI, Koni America is only about 10 minutes from where I work. If anyone wanted someone to personally take them to Koni to be rebuilt, I could do that.

Sorry for the Hijack Rich..... Just statin what I know about Koni's for now.

---------- Post added at 09:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 AM ----------

Also Rich, I wanted you to know that I'd be in for a set of fronts for a Rampage, and possibly rears if you ever get them developed, but I just don't have the cash right now. :(

And in a few years, I'd be in for a set for a G. But I don't have the money, or the time to work on the G right now. :(

Badger
01-12-2011, 03:59 PM
I was told the same thing by the place on the west coast that Koni has officially licensed to rebuild their struts. No can do.

Reaper1
01-12-2011, 11:46 PM
I was told the same thing by the place on the west coast that Koni has officially licensed to rebuild their struts. No can do.

Is this for L-body Konis or ALL of the Konis that were used on TMs? The reason I asked is because a few years ago when the bolt-on ones went the way of the Dodo, I asked Lee Grimes about that and he said it was no problem at all....maybe things changed.

Badger
01-13-2011, 02:27 AM
I dont know about the other TM applications. The ones I tried to have rebuilt were the adjustable L body struts for an '86 GLHS

RJ138
04-19-2011, 11:46 AM
Any updates?

Looking at your website the front kit for non L bodies is 575 shipped? The drop down only lists SRT and Impreza? Does this include your custom top plate? Which one would I want to order for a Spirit R/T?

Also just a heads up, on your products page suspension is misspelled.

Thanks,
Ryan

rbryant
04-19-2011, 06:52 PM
Any updates?

Looking at your website the front kit for non L bodies is 575 shipped? The drop down only lists SRT and Impreza? Does this include your custom top plate? Which one would I want to order for a Spirit R/T?


There are basically 2 options for the front half kit that will work. The SRT4 struts work with a spacer, and MK3 golf kits can also work with a slight ovaling of one of the strut holes. The MK3 Golf shocks are slightly shorter so they will result in a slightly lower max height but don't require a spacer. I should add the VWs as an option to that dropdown.

The spacers and custom top plates are an extra $125 and there is a separate ordering box for those.

(The impreza struts were there for a special order on a custom RWD Daytona using impreza front struts).



Also just a heads up, on your products page suspension is misspelled.



Hehe oops...

I can't login to change it from work anymore because some fools were misusing the ssh port for streaming video or some such nonsense and it is now blocked...

Thanks for the heads up. I will fix it later...

-Rich

1966 dart wagon
04-22-2011, 11:47 AM
awesome, subscribed to read later, while not at work!!!:thumb::thumb:

iTurbo
04-26-2011, 02:26 PM
Any news on the K-sport kit? If the full kit price were still going to be about $1000 like it was for the BC than I will probably get on the group buy if it is still going...for an L-body and a P-body here.

rbryant
04-26-2011, 02:58 PM
Any news on the K-sport kit? If the full kit price were still going to be about $1000 like it was for the BC than I will probably get on the group buy if it is still going...for an L-body and a P-body here.

KSport also wanted 10 orders of each type of kit so it isn't going to happen.

I am just going to stick with the approach of ordering separate front and rear kits with the BCs. The BC SRT4 fronts and MK3 VW fronts work just fine and the rears can be worked out.

For the lbody we are looking at how well the eclipse rears fit. There is another thread on it and pictures should be up in a couple of weeks showing the install of the eclipse rears on an lbody...

For the non lbody I think I am going to push for running BC fronts and QA1 (formerly carerra) rear shocks with some custom made adjustable spring mounts on the axle.. The QA1s are available in several lengths and can be single or dual adjustable and they have the right top and bottom connections (when used with bushings). They are about $160 each for single adjustable and 260 each more for double adjustable rears. They are available in dual and monotube, aluminum or steel, etc.

I am working on prototype spring mounts (they are at the machinist now) that bolt to the rear frame and use the stock top mount. It is just a matter of getting the price for making the spring mounts and then for some springs. I think I can probably even get springs cheaply from BC. I might even be able to get barrel shaped springs to help deal with any misalignment issues on the non coilover rear ends.

-Rich

black86glhs
04-26-2011, 04:40 PM
<-------is hoping to be providing input on the eclipse part here really soon. Weather is the main factor is my case. Thanks Rich.

vntned
04-26-2011, 05:02 PM
So I can run SRT4 front BC coilies on my CSX?!

rbryant
04-26-2011, 06:36 PM
So I can run SRT4 front BC coilies on my CSX?!

Yes with some adapter parts that I have made you can run the SRT4 fronts with camber plates.

The adapter parts are a spacer on the spindle and a custom top plate for the camber plates. I also have optional top rings to make the strut towers stronger.

I will get some pictures posted soon.

-Rich

iTurbo
04-26-2011, 07:25 PM
Ah OK. I thought we might be getting real close to 10/10 on the K-Sports if I got in on both the L and K-based versions. But, I like the BC separate front/rear you described too although that is unfortunate about the handling charge. The GHJKP rear spring mounts are just what I was hoping for as well. Especially if they are a bolt-in without welding required since the powdercoating has already been done.

On the L-body version you mentioned using Eclipse rears, but what about the fronts? I would like something that could hopefully be made to work with the stock R/T knuckle and brake setup but it sounds like you have that covered.

rbryant
04-26-2011, 08:08 PM
Ah OK. I thought we might be getting real close to 10/10 on the K-Sports if I got in on both the L and K-based versions. But, I like the BC separate front/rear you described too although that is unfortunate about the handling charge. The GHJKP rear spring mounts are just what I was hoping for as well. Especially if they are a bolt-in without welding required since the powdercoating has already been done.

On the L-body version you mentioned using Eclipse rears, but what about the fronts? I would like something that could hopefully be made to work with the stock R/T knuckle and brake setup but it sounds like you have that covered.

As long as you are using the RT knuckles the the only difference in the Lbody is a different top plate. The same spacers still work. If you use lbody knuckles (which I recommend against) then the spacers have to be thicker and the knuckles may also need to be slotted to fix the lbody vs kcar camber changes...

If the eclipse rears are too much of a hassle then there are also QA1s that will fit the lbody as a coilover. Because the QA1s are also adjustable (via dials on the shock body) they can match the BCs well and they can also support up to 600lb springs.

-Rich

iTurbo
04-30-2011, 06:38 PM
Awesome thanks for clearing that up Rich.

On the L-body kit, it sounds like we are just waiting to see how fitment goes with the Eclipse style rears? If/when I buy this L-body coil-over kit I will be running it with your dual-pivot L-body K-frame/cast control arms, R/T knuckles/hubs/brakes etc. This kit sounds perfect....but since this is kind of a back burner project, what I really want even sooner is.....

GHJKP kit! After researching it quite a bit this looks like the best solution for my CSX project and would go perfect with all the other stuff done you/I have done for the car. Also sounds like this is just waiting for the rear details to be worked out? Would love to start assembling my CSX with this coil-over kit but also not sure of how long wait I might be looking at?

rbryant
05-01-2011, 02:46 AM
Awesome thanks for clearing that up Rich.

On the L-body kit, it sounds like we are just waiting to see how fitment goes with the Eclipse style rears? If/when I buy this L-body coil-over kit I will be running it with your dual-pivot L-body K-frame/cast control arms, R/T knuckles/hubs/brakes etc. This kit sounds perfect....but since this is kind of a back burner project, what I really want even sooner is.....

GHJKP kit! After researching it quite a bit this looks like the best solution for my CSX project and would go perfect with all the other stuff done you/I have done for the car. Also sounds like this is just waiting for the rear details to be worked out? Would love to start assembling my CSX with this coil-over kit but also not sure of how long wait I might be looking at?

Not much wait. I can give you part numbers to order the QA1 rear shocks whenever you want. There may be a few bushings to work out on them (they are a 5/8" hole) but otherwise it is nearly a direct bolt on. That is why I am opting for the QA1 rears instead of a BC kit that doesn't quite fit the GJKHPA cars. BC just doesn't have many shocks that are double eyelet.

Additionally the adjuster on the stud style BCs is on the top like the front konis so it isn't possible to adapt the top to an eyelet mount. I would rather not make people drill holes in their cars to make the stud style fit and for cars like the Pbody it isn't really an option because the hole drilled to make the shock fit would be under the rear speaker and not accessible for adjustment... QA1s on the other hand have a dial on the outside of the shock body.

I can also order any spring that BC carries for a reasonable price which means I can drop ship rear springs with the front half of the kit..

The rear GJKHPA threaded adjusters are really the only thing I am waiting on. I know what I want to do but I am just not sure how much they will cost yet.

As a side note, If the Eclipse BC rears are too much work to adapt then we can use QA1s for the lbody rears too (Bryan should have that all worked out shortly).

-Rich

iTurbo
05-01-2011, 01:38 PM
I agree sounds like QA1 is the way to go, at least for the GHJKP kit. It looks like they are a piece of cake to adjust (outside near bottom?) compared to having to deal with a top-side adjuster which wouldn't work well, if at all. Nevermind the fact I don't want to cut a #'d car at all unless absolutely necessary, and even then I probably wouldn't!

I'll send you a PM later tonight.

black86glhs
05-01-2011, 05:23 PM
I'm waiting on some parts from McMaster-Carr to show up. I think I have the bottom of the Eclipse shock worked out, but I will know 100% when the parts get here and I have some time to do the mock up. Getting close.:thumb:

Edit: I had to drill out the lower bolt on the driver's side when it broke, so that took some time to get out. Besides, needed the bushings anyways.:nod:

black86glhs
05-31-2011, 07:43 PM
3125331254312553125631257

I got the rears in and offset them to the inside and they fit well. Got the driver's front one mocked up and just need to do some metal trimming.

312583125931260

Force Fed Mopar
05-31-2011, 09:09 PM
Looks oddly familiar...

Mitsubishi struts on an L-body (http://boostedmopar.com/forums/showthread.php?3100-Mitsubishi-struts-on-an-L-body/page2)

:D Glad to see someone putting this info to good use.

black86glhs
05-31-2011, 10:17 PM
NICE. Still need to get the pass side on, but waiting until the temps get back to normal.

Reaper1
06-01-2011, 03:46 PM
You aren't afraid of that top nut coming loose?

black86glhs
06-01-2011, 03:57 PM
You aren't afraid of that top nut coming loose?It is a mag lug nut that goes down through the bushings. It has about an inch of threads on the shaft. It will be ok. Rich figured that one out.

minigts
06-01-2011, 04:00 PM
You aren't afraid of that top nut coming loose?

I think I would be worried in general if there are only a couple of threads, but unless that thing travels the entire length of the strut (fully decompressed), I think it would be fine. Although, I am with you, I'd rather have some more threads grabbing. :D

rbryant
06-01-2011, 04:20 PM
I think I would be worried in general if there are only a couple of threads, but unless that thing travels the entire length of the strut (fully decompressed), I think it would be fine. Although, I am with you, I'd rather have some more threads grabbing. :D

You are missing some information about the top nut. :)

The Mag nut takes the place of the steel spacer and is threaded all the way to the bottom. That way it can extend into the bushing and still have threads. This eliminates the problem of the threaded part of the shaft not being long enough. The only thing that has to change is that the stock top washer center hole has to be enlarged to 11/16" to allow the Mag lugnut shank to pass through it. It took me a while to figure out what to do....

31292

31291


I used an extra small spacer on mine below the MAG nut even though the shank on the nut is the same length as the stock spacer because the poly bushing was thicker than stock and I didn't want to cover compress it. (bottom of 3rd column of parts). Our rear setup is supposed to tighten until the nut sandwiches the steel spacer between the top washer and the strut hat so the thickness of the steel bushing relative to the poly bushings is important. That way the bushings are not over tightened because the steel spacer limits things. Johnny is making his bushings slightly shorter in future runs so this will no longer be required.

31290


For the bottom bushing I was able to use a 2" long x 3.4" OD x 10mm aluminum bushing (which I will provide) inside of a custom bushing that Johnny Spiva is providing.

The bottom bushings can be ordered from Johnny along with the top blue isolator bushings. Both the isolators and bushings were under $60 shipped when ordered together (of course his prices are subject to change) but even at a higher price it is a great solution!

Here are pictures of Bryan Leach's install with the new bushings:

Rear View:
33644

Bottom View:
33645

This allows the bottom of the shock to be slightly offset and clear the frame with no problems.

They are made to be a tight fit so it may help so slightly bend the inner tab outward on install. Tightening the shock bolt will pinch it back to parallel.

Thanks to Bryan Leach and Johnny Spiva for the help on these!

-Rich

minigts
06-01-2011, 04:23 PM
I think YOU'RE a top nut. Actually, this is pretty good. I've always had the problem with the nut being hard to thread onto the shock. I may go this route with my factory/coil-over setup.


You are missing some information about the top nut. :)

31290
31291
31292

The Mag nut takes the place of the spacer and is threaded all the way to the bottom. That way it can extend into the bushing and still have threads. This eliminates the problem of the threaded part of the shaft not being long enough. It took me a while to figure out what to do....

-Rich

minigts
06-01-2011, 04:54 PM
Is 12x1.5 the same thread pitch on the Koni rear shocks? Anyone know that size? I think I'm going to order a pair of those.

rbryant
06-01-2011, 06:40 PM
Is 12x1.5 the same thread pitch on the Koni rear shocks? Anyone know that size? I think I'm going to order a pair of those.

These were M12x1.25. I think the konis were the same but I can't remember. Just be careful when buying them because most of the MAG lugnuts are M12x1.5 and I had a harder time finding them in the finer M12x1.25 pitch.

They just require the top washer to be drilled out to 11/16" and then they work.


The BC adjuster is a 3mm allen hex so I just provide a t-handle wrench for that which you stick down inside of the nut in place of the normal adjustment dial that goes on them.

The hex portion is extra tall on MAG lugnuts so it might stick up too far to allow access to the larger plastic koni adjuster. If that is the case you would have to chop off some of it so that you can get to the adjuster on the konis.

I bought a dozen or so of them so we can probably work out a deal in PM for a pair of them. :)


-Rich

shackwrrr
06-01-2011, 11:13 PM
any reason why you couldn't reinforce that area on the other bodies and run the same strut?

Reaper1
06-01-2011, 11:26 PM
Darn...I forgot about the MAG nut trick. Oh well, I don't have an L-body anyways! LOL

rbryant
06-02-2011, 12:16 AM
any reason why you couldn't reinforce that area on the other bodies and run the same strut?

I thought about that a lot and it was my initial idea.

The reason I went away from it is because the adjuster is inside of the shaft like a koni. If you drill a hole in the body of several of the cars the adjuster would be virtually inaccessible. For instance it would be under the speaker on a shadow.

The QA1 adjuster is on the side of the shock body which makes it a better setup and makes it bolt on without any mods.

You could however use the same shock but I would actually suggest using the MK3 Golf shock for a daytona. It is slightly too long for a charger/omni but would work well if you were to do the drill/reinforce method and the bottom mount/bushing is a closer match.

-Rich

shackwrrr
06-02-2011, 06:22 AM
I thought about that a lot and it was my initial idea.

The reason I went away from it is because the adjuster is inside of the shaft like a koni. If you drill a hole in the body of several of the cars the adjuster would be virtually inaccessible. For instance it would be under the speaker on a shadow.

The QA1 adjuster is on the side of the shock body which makes it a better setup and makes it bolt on without any mods.

You could however use the same shock but I would actually suggest using the MK3 Golf shock for a daytona. It is slightly too long for a charger/omni but would work well if you were to do the drill/reinforce method and the bottom mount/bushing is a closer match.

-Rich

Cool thanks, the adjuster doesn't worry me, I would find a way to get in there (access hole) or just run 6x9's elsewhere. Im sure the lower mount would also require strengthening too. My next thought was to use a universal coilover and build upper mounts but these usually lack the convenience of an external adjuster.
http://www.utvguide.net/images/UTVShocks/Afco-Standard-1.jpg

rbryant
06-02-2011, 01:33 PM
Cool thanks, the adjuster doesn't worry me, I would find a way to get in there (access hole) or just run 6x9's elsewhere. Im sure the lower mount would also require strengthening too. My next thought was to use a universal coilover and build upper mounts but these usually lack the convenience of an external adjuster.
http://www.utvguide.net/images/UTVShocks/Afco-Standard-1.jpg

There is no room for a coilover spring over the top of the shocks on the non lbody cars. The shock comes very close to the frame rail. It would require fabrication of new mounts and I am not sure what clearance issues you might run into.

I am working on some spring height adjusters for the non lbody that go in the stock spring location and require only one 1/2" hole in the axle where the stock spring goes in order to work. It is just taking a while to get to it. Hopefully in the next few weeks I will have prototypes.

-Rich

shackwrrr
06-02-2011, 02:08 PM
There is no room for a coilover spring over the top of the shocks on the non lbody cars. The shock comes very close to the frame rail. It would require fabrication of new mounts and I am not sure what clearance issues you might run into.

I am working on some spring height adjusters for the non lbody that go in the stock spring location and require only one 1/2" hole in the axle where the stock spring goes in order to work. It is just taking a while to get to it. Hopefully in the next few weeks I will have prototypes.

-Rich

Thats why I was thinking of building an alternate upper mount.

rbryant
06-02-2011, 02:34 PM
Thats why I was thinking of building an alternate upper mount.

Everything I am working on must bolt on with the biggest change being a possible hole to mount an adjustable spring perch.

If you are going to do extensive modifications you might as well consider adapting a neon IRS.... At a minimum the panhard bar should be converted into a watts linkage.

I think that becomes a different thread though...

-Rich

iTurbo
06-27-2011, 10:20 AM
Hey guys just thought I would bump this thread as I'm going this route with my '87 Shelby CSX build. For the front I'm going with the BC kit for the Golf, with Rich's adapter plates. The rears haven't quite got all the details worked out yet, but I did get some QA1 TS801 rear shocks and BC rear springs on the way which will need a little adaptation to make work. I even got a set of end-link anti sway bars from polybushings.com on the way. Car is going to be a hoot! Stay tuned...

rbryant
07-24-2011, 11:49 PM
Here are a couple of pictures of the recessed bolt plates on my GLHS.

This updated design now has the bolt head recessed below the level of the plate so they can maximize the adjustments for non modified cars.

The plates work the same way on the GJKHPA plates.

32791

32792

-Rich

Ondonti
07-25-2011, 12:17 AM
If the spring was located on the bottom of the shock can you get anymore room in the non L bodies? I know that I have had tires rub on normal rear shocks so obviously nothing can go there.
Is the spring seat on the axle very strong if you are just drilling 1 hole in the middle? Seems like you would need to add a little plate there to spread the load.

rbryant
07-25-2011, 01:40 AM
If the spring was located on the bottom of the shock can you get anymore room in the non L bodies?


The springs are always setup to be on the top even on the inverted style struts. If you moved them to the bottom perhaps it could add some clearance if you could get the springs to be 100% inside of the rim. That setup might bend the strut rod (it puts all force on the rod and not the spring hat) and it isn't available anyway.



I know that I have had tires rub on normal rear shocks so obviously nothing can go there.



Agreed, there is no room for a coilover rear on the GJKHPA cars.



Is the spring seat on the axle very strong if you are just drilling 1 hole in the middle?
Seems like you would need to add a little plate there to spread the load.

I am not sure what you are talking about. The front spring hat setup is very similar to stock except it uses a spherical bearing.

This is a front picture and the rear is completely different because it uses a shockeye mount on the bottom.

-Rich

Reaper1
07-25-2011, 10:42 AM
Rich, were those pictures just to illustrate the set-up, or was that a completed install? The reason I ask is because the nylocks on those nuts aren't even engaging the threads from the bolts. I hope Loctite of some kind was used, or is suggested in that case. Another solution, of course, is a longer bolt and let the end customer trim to the desired end length.

rbryant
07-25-2011, 01:27 PM
Rich, were those pictures just to illustrate the set-up, or was that a completed install? The reason I ask is because the nylocks on those nuts aren't even engaging the threads from the bolts. I hope Loctite of some kind was used, or is suggested in that case. Another solution, of course, is a longer bolt and let the end customer trim to the desired end length.

Just an illustration of the plates.

The bolts are only finger tight and no weight is on the car. The nylon lock is tight enough to where you can't turn the bolt into them easily with your fingers.

The bolts extend past the nylon lock when tight but I hadn't tightened them down yet in the picture. I was concentrating on the adjuster to plate connection and not looking at the outer bolts.

-Rich

Reaper1
07-25-2011, 07:22 PM
Gotcha! :thumb:

rbryant
08-31-2011, 03:47 PM
I just added pictures of the newly developed bottom bushings for installing 1G eclipse shocks on an lbody to post 140:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?53473-Official-BC-Coilover-Kit-Development-Interest.&p=815014&viewfull=1#post815014

This most of the important Lbody rear reference pictures in one post.

It also completes the last detail on making the BC coilovers bolt on to an lbody with no modifications required!

-Rich

black86glhs
08-31-2011, 10:26 PM
I like how it all fits. Rich is great to deal with(as many already know). I haven't driven mine yet with the new setup, but it sits lower and looks better.
Thanks again Rich. :clap:

omni_840
08-31-2011, 10:54 PM
Good Stuff!

Force Fed Mopar
09-01-2011, 08:31 AM
Great to hear!

Badger
09-02-2011, 01:18 AM
I will second all that Bryan said

iTurbo
10-30-2011, 11:08 PM
Nice work on the L-body stuff guys. Looks like everything has been worked out as far as the L-body BC kit is concerned which is nice because I'm going to pick up a set as soon as funds allow.

Just an FYI, there are a couple write-ups (including mine) in the tech forum on installing the QA1 adjustable rear shocks in the GHKJPA bodies.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?61660-QA1-adjustable-rear-shock-install-on-GJKHPA-body-cars.

omni_840
10-31-2011, 12:42 PM
Nice work on the L-body stuff guys. Looks like everything has been worked out as far as the L-body BC kit is concerned which is nice because I'm going to pick up a set as soon as funds allow

Agreed awesome job Rich! I'm in for a set too as soon as funds become available.:nod:

black86glhs
10-31-2011, 01:45 PM
I love how they turned out on my car. It definitely sits lower and I don't have it in the weeds.

rbryant
11-01-2011, 08:07 PM
I love how they turned out on my car. It definitely sits lower and I don't have it in the weeds.

How much lower than stock do you have it set for?


How much higher or lower could you go?

It should be fine to raise it until you have about 1-1.5" of threads in the spindle mount for the high setting and on the low side you can go until it is too close to the axle.

For the rears I now have some shorter top hats for them if you ever need to go lower.


I would do the measurements on my car but my prototype setup that I can't get in volume is slightly taller.

Thanks,

Rich

black86glhs
11-01-2011, 08:53 PM
You could drop in another 1-2 inches. Right now, it is about 3/4 in lower than where it sat before. I used to be able to get a floor jack under the K-frame, but can't now. I don't like the slammed look but agree that stock is a little tall.
Rich, I'm sure you could get a couple inches of extra clearance with them all the way up.

iTurbo
11-05-2011, 11:26 AM
I got a couple questions on the BC L-body kit. How is it adjusting the rears? I don't see the adjustment knob with the mag nut there, but from the sounds of it all I need is a T-handle allen wrench? Also, do I need to go to polybushings.com for the replacement lower bushing for the rear, or is it included? And those blue poly donut spacers (lg/sm), I already have a set of those from polybushings.com. They are the same as the standard L-body ones Johnny makes, right?

black86glhs
11-05-2011, 01:50 PM
I got a couple questions on the BC L-body kit. How is it adjusting the rears? I don't see the adjustment knob with the mag nut there, but from the sounds of it all I need is a T-handle allen wrench? Also, do I need to go to polybushings.com for the replacement lower bushing for the rear, or is it included? And those blue poly donut spacers (lg/sm), I already have a set of those from polybushings.com. They are the same as the standard L-body ones Johnny makes, right?Since I was the guinea pig, I can answer this for you. The blue ones Johnny makes are the ones I used, they work perfect. The T-handle allen wrench is included in the kit. The lower bushings are what Rich and I were working on, so it should come with them. That was why I was helping Rich out, to get a simple lower bushing setup. It was even better that is was kept in the community by using Polybushing's pieces.:thumb:

rbryant
11-05-2011, 04:28 PM
Since I was the guinea pig, I can answer this for you. The blue ones Johnny makes are the ones I used, they work perfect. The T-handle allen wrench is included in the kit. The lower bushings are what Rich and I were working on, so it should come with them. That was why I was helping Rich out, to get a simple lower bushing setup. It was even better that is was kept in the community by using Polybushing's pieces.:thumb:

I am actually not including the bushings in the kit because I think that everyone will want to order the top poly bushings from Johnny anyway and they can be shipped together.

The bottom bushings were under $30 a pair so they aren't a big expense and Johnny knows what to provide.. It is just easier to for both Johnny and I to have him provide the bottom bushings directly.

I am including the T handle adjuster, mag nuts, and a different BC rear spring top hat (to replace the one that comes with the eclipse setup) in the kit.

-Rich

rbryant
11-05-2011, 04:36 PM
BTW here are a couple of pictures of the prototype GJKHPA rear spring adjusters!

They require drilling of a 1/2" hole in the spring pad on the rear axle and an optional second hole (or set screw from the inside) to keep them from turning. The second hole can be tapped for 3/8" or used as a 5/16 through bolt hole.
35102


They are a top quality steel coilover sleeve for extra strength and are angled so that the springs are straight. The coilover springs can't bow like the stock springs do.
35103

The adjuster is aluminum which is annodized gold similar to the BCs. Notice the quality of the welds. The fabricator is very good and they are all TIG welded.
35104

The bottoms need a quick coat of paint to protect the welds from rusting and they are ready to bolt on and provide about 2.5" of adjustment range. The coilover spring will mount like the stock spring on the top. My suggestion is to remove the stock "gate top" bump stop and install a shorter one or put the bump stop on the shock instead of the tower. I also suggest a new poly spring isolator.

The first two pairs are being sent this week and next so hopefully there won't be any bugs in them with the angles, spring lengths, etc but even if there are we are very close to production.

-Rich

Reaper1
11-05-2011, 04:49 PM
BTW here are a couple of pictures of the prototype GJKHPA rear spring adjusters!

They require drilling of a 1/2" hole in the spring pad on the rear axle and an optional second hole (or set screw from the inside) to keep them from turning. The second hole can be tapped for 3/8" or used as a 5/16 through bolt hole.
35102


They are a top quality steel coilover sleeve for extra strength and are angled so that the springs are straight. The coilover springs can't bow like the stock springs do.
35103

The adjuster is aluminum which is annodized gold similar to the BCs. Notice the quality of the welds. The fabricator is very good and they are all TIG welded.
35104

The bottoms need a quick coat of paint to protect the welds from rusting and they are ready to bolt on and provide about 2.5" of adjustment range. The coilover spring will mount like the stock spring on the top. My suggestion is to remove the stock "gate top" bump stop and install a shorter one or put the bump stop on the shock instead of the tower. I also suggest a new poly spring isolator.

The first two pairs are being sent this week and next so hopefully there won't be any bugs in them with the angles, spring lengths, etc but even if there are we are very close to production.

-Rich

Approximate cost?

rbryant
11-05-2011, 05:13 PM
Approximate cost?

Probably $160-180 for a pair unless costs increase with the next batch or something has to change with them.

-Rich

black86glhs
11-05-2011, 05:38 PM
Sorry Rich, I overstepped by bounds on that one. :o
I suppose what I meant was that the blue poly donuts will work as I used them, but are not included. Also that the bushings were included in the price, but are shipped from Polybushings. Is that more correct?

rbryant
11-05-2011, 06:06 PM
Sorry Rich, I overstepped by bounds on that one. :o
I suppose what I meant was that the blue poly donuts will work as I used them, but are not included. Also that the bushings were included in the price, but are shipped from Polybushings. Is that more correct?

I included them for you given that you were testing them. :)

In the future it is much easer to just have the customer pay Johnny directly given that they are most likely already going to buy something (the donut bushings) from him at the same time anyway and shipping can be combined.

I would just charge $25-30 more for the kit with no markup if they were included so it is the same price to order directly from Johnny.

If it is a big concern for people I can work it into the price and have Johnny drop ship them to people. <shrug>

Don't worry about overstepping bounds I appreciate your help.

-Rich

black86glhs
11-05-2011, 06:11 PM
That makes even more sense. He makes them so just place an order there for the bushings and donuts. It doesn't add any time to get them. :thumb:

Reaper1
11-05-2011, 06:24 PM
Not a bad cost. Gotta finish my engine..then I'm going to revamp the suspension and brakes...again! LOL

iTurbo
11-05-2011, 10:00 PM
Very nice! I'm impressed; I like the design, materials, and construction. It looks like it will last a long time. The only other thing I can think of is what do you think about a small 3rd hole (perhaps 1/8") to drain any moisture that might end up inside of the coil-over sleeve?

Also, when I get these I was thinking of powder coating the sleeves semi-gloss black. Do you think a thin application of powder over the threaded area would interfere with the adjuster? Would be nice for appearance/longevity.

iTurbo
11-05-2011, 10:17 PM
I forgot to mention, I happen to have a new set of polybushings.com's rear spring poly isolators for the GHKPA cars and the small one (top) fits the BC rear coils I got through Rich perfectly. The only thing I don't quite understand is that it needs the stock bump stop in place since it mounts over it and keeps it centered. Years ago I tried unsuccessfully to remove the stock rear bump stops from my Shelby Lancer. I remember taking a couple coarse threaded screws out but those things would not come off! Is there a trick to removing the stock bump stops? Are they spot welded in place or??

Oh and no big deal on the rear L-body bottom bushing. That makes sense to just get it from PB.com since anybody that does this is also going to want those blue donut bushings anyway. I just wanted clarification there as I wasn't sure exactly what was included.

rbryant
11-06-2011, 12:57 AM
Very nice! I'm impressed; I like the design, materials, and construction. It looks like it will last a long time. The only other thing I can think of is what do you think about a small 3rd hole (perhaps 1/8") to drain any moisture that might end up inside of the coil-over sleeve?

Also, when I get these I was thinking of powder coating the sleeves semi-gloss black. Do you think a thin application of powder over the threaded area would interfere with the adjuster? Would be nice for appearance/longevity.

I am not sure if the powder would interfere with the threads. It might, or it might just come off when you adjust them. I think just a coating of black paint over the bottom inch where the weld is and where the welding overheated the coating is all that is needed.

The drain hole is probably a good idea. I forget about that here in the desert because we don't really have much moisture. The drain hole is easier than capping the hollow sleeve.

It is something that you can easily add by just drilling up through from the bottom once you get things all set. A small 1/8" weep hole would probably work just fine. If you have to add the drain hole to the spring pad then you might as well just drill through the pad and the bottom plate all at once so I would probably leave that to the customer to do.

-Rich

minigts
11-07-2011, 08:50 AM
Rich, I'm in for a set of P body style. Do I send the $100 deposit to your Paypal? Is this deposit linked on your site?

rbryant
11-07-2011, 12:22 PM
Rich, I'm in for a set of P body style. Do I send the $100 deposit to your Paypal? Is this deposit linked on your site?

Deposits are no longer required for these kits. You can order them whenever you are ready from the page linked in my signature.

The only thing I don't have ready to ship is another set of the rear spring height adjusters. I have the parts to make them ordered and I am waiting on feedback from the prototypes before making more.

-Rich

minigts
11-07-2011, 12:29 PM
Deposits are no longer required for these kits. You can order them whenever you are ready from the page linked in my signature.

The only thing I don't have ready to ship is another set of the rear spring height adjusters. I have the parts to make them ordered and I am waiting on feedback from the prototypes before making more.

-Rich

Good deal. As soon as these are ready, I'll be buying a set.

rbryant
11-16-2011, 01:26 PM
All,

Here is a picture from Jeremy (iTurbo) showing the prototype height adjuster with the BC rear barrel shaped spring and the polybushings.com top bushing.

35491


Hopefully he can get it installed shortly to check the angles and lengths. After that I should be able to make a batch of them.

-Rich

minigts
11-16-2011, 01:37 PM
All,

Here is a picture from Jeremy (iTurbo) showing the prototype height adjuster with the BC rear barrel shaped spring and the polybushings.com top bushing.

35491


Hopefully he can get it installed shortly to check the angles and lengths. After that I should be able to make a batch of them.

-Rich

Perfect, just in time for Christmas. I shall be treating myself good this year. :D

Reaper1
11-16-2011, 11:20 PM
Are those springs available in different rates? Are the adapters and such compatible with other types of springs (ie. Eibach coil-over type, ect.)?

iTurbo
11-17-2011, 01:27 AM
I hope to have time this weekend to try them out, but it looks like the weather is going to be pretty crappy. High/Low temp Saturday is 28'/7'F and only a little warmer on Sunday. I DID have a shop to pull the car in, but my brother brought home a 1970 AMC Rebel SST Wagon and it is now taking up all the room in the shop!

I will of course be installing the QA1 shocks as well. I plan to install all of this on my '87 Shelby CSX, but since it's in a bajillion pieces right now, I'm going to do the install/pics using my '87 Shelby Lancer instead. It is mechanically identical so it shouldn't matter. That car has been running around since ~'04 with Eibach ProKit spring set and KYB GAJ shocks (yay!) and KYB GR2 struts (barf).

rbryant
11-17-2011, 02:31 AM
Are those springs available in different rates? Are the adapters and such compatible with other types of springs (ie. Eibach coil-over type, ect.)?

Yes you can get the springs in 4k, 5k, 6k, 8k and possibly higher.

The adjusters are for a 2.5" spring so you can run whatever 2.5" spring you want. I happen to like the barrel springs for the rear because they give some extra room for the coil sleeve given that the angle of the spring will change as the rear axle moves. The barrel gives more room so that the spring doesn't hit the sleeve if the spring isn't perfectly parallel with the sleeve through the entire compression range.

I will probably have to setup another ordering button for just the rear adjusters if people want them without the rest of the BC setup so just send me a PM if you want that. :)

-Rich

---------- Post added at 11:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 PM ----------


I hope to have time this weekend to try them out, but it looks like the weather is going to be pretty crappy. High/Low temp Saturday is 28'/7'F and only a little warmer on Sunday. I DID have a shop to pull the car in, but my brother brought home a 1970 AMC Rebel SST Wagon and it is now taking up all the room in the shop!

I will of course be installing the QA1 shocks as well. I plan to install all of this on my '87 Shelby CSX, but since it's in a bajillion pieces right now, I'm going to do the install/pics using my '87 Shelby Lancer instead. It is mechanically identical so it shouldn't matter. That car has been running around since ~'04 with Eibach ProKit spring set and KYB GAJ shocks (yay!) and KYB GR2 struts (barf).

Once you get them installed you will just have to buy a second set for the CSX instead of taking them back off from the Lancer. ;)
I think the only real difference is the weight of the Lancer. The lancer might need 7k/5k spring rates to feel the same as the CSX with 6k/4k.

Good luck with the install, I am sure people would love to hear your feedback and handling impressions of the fully installed setup.

-Rich

eski
11-19-2011, 05:52 PM
Whoa, want some! Is this compatible with stock bushings and stock springs? Well I have PB bushings and eibach springs.

iTurbo
11-19-2011, 06:13 PM
Whoa, want some! Is this compatible with stock bushings and stock springs? Well I have PB bushings and eibach springs.

Rich's rear spring adjusters won't work with stock springs or the Eibach ProKit for our cars. Those springs are larger diameter and designed to sit in the spring pad that is integrated into the rear axle. Rich's adjusters bolt to the top/center of the original spring mounting pad. The top polyurethane spring seats that Johnny @ polybushings.com works on the topside of the new BC spring (like stock), but there is no need for the bottom poly seat because nothing will sit there anymore.

I was hoping to do at least some of the install today but the high temp is 13'F and I had to spend about three hours this morning with the snow blower clearing all the sidewalks.

iTurbo
11-24-2011, 06:25 PM
OK, I got some test fitting done. I haven't installed anything on an actual car yet, as I wanted to do some test fitting first and get a little more comfortable with the process. Thankfully it went very smooth with only a 1/2" hole drilled into the center of each rear spring pad. I also used a 1/4" drill bit to put two small divots just below the 1/2" hole for the set screws that will be used to keep the spring adjuster from rotating once installed. The rear axle assembly in the pics is from an '87 Shelby Lancer.

35673 35674 35675 35676 35677 35678 35679 35680 35681

iTurbo
11-24-2011, 06:33 PM
Alright some of these next pics might seem a little redundant, but about 1/2 through taking pics of the adjusters in in my previous post I realized I should bolt on the QA1 shocks and get some pics of those on there as well!

35682 35683 35684 35685 35686 35687 35688 35689 35690 35691 35692 35693 35694

The only trouble I have had so far is that it can be tricky finding dead center of the spring pad. I used about four drill bits total to step up the diameter until I got to 1/2". The top surface of the spring pad is actually slightly concave, so it is easier to drill from the top. Unfortunately if you were to do this install on the car you would most likely have to drill from the bottom which is a bit convex and harder to drill dead center. I'll have more info once I try to install these on my '87 Shelby Lancer #127.

rx2mazda
11-27-2011, 03:49 AM
does the l-body kit come complete with camber plates? how much? availability?

rbryant
11-27-2011, 08:14 PM
does the l-body kit come complete with camber plates? how much? availability?

Carroll,

The prices are all on my webpage.

The full lbody Kit does come with camber plates and adapters that make them fit the cars.

Currently the full lbody kit is $1375 and is in stock. The BC components drop ship from them and may take a 2-3 weeks to arrive from the time they are ordered. The components that ship from me will be 3-4 day turnaround.

It also requires a bushing kit from polybushings for the rear but it is $30 or less direct from Johnny,

-Rich

minigts
11-27-2011, 11:30 PM
Alright some of these next pics might seem a little redundant, but about 1/2 through taking pics of the adjusters in in my previous post I realized I should bolt on the QA1 shocks and get some pics of those on there as well!

pics.....

The only trouble I have had so far is that it can be tricky finding dead center of the spring pad. I used about four drill bits total to step up the diameter until I got to 1/2". The top surface of the spring pad is actually slightly concave, so it is easier to drill from the top. Unfortunately if you were to do this install on the car you would most likely have to drill from the bottom which is a bit convex and harder to drill dead center. I'll have more info once I try to install these on my '87 Shelby Lancer #127.

Man that looks so killer, thanks for taking the time to do this Jeremy!

rx2mazda
11-28-2011, 08:35 PM
Carroll,

The prices are all on my webpage.

The full lbody Kit does come with camber plates and adapters that make them fit the cars.

Currently the full lbody kit is $1375 and is in stock. The BC components drop ship from them and may take a 2-3 weeks to arrive from the time they are ordered. The components that ship from me will be 3-4 day turnaround.

It also requires a bushing kit from polybushings for the rear but it is $30 or less direct from Johnny,

-Rich

Thanks! Need to address my suspension over the winter, trying to figure the best route to go.

csxtra
02-02-2012, 02:23 AM
I finished installing the rear GJKHPA spring/adjuster setup on my 87 CSX this week.

Here's a pic of what it looks like installed (I guess it's time to rewrap the exhaust pipe again):
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/RearSetupInstalled.jpg


And how much ride height adjustment there is (lowest setting to highest):
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/Rear-LowestSetting.JPG
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/Rear-HighestSetting.JPG

So far I'm VERY happy with the setup, I have more than enough ride height adjustability (both front and rear) for my needs.

Thanks Rich! :thumb:

cordes
02-02-2012, 02:08 PM
Very impressive. Thanks for taking the time for photos and a write up Warren.

rbryant
02-02-2012, 03:05 PM
Thanks Warren, You have been a great customer throughout the process!

The springs worked out perfectly on the prototypes but the angles of the sleeve had to be tweaked to get what you see in Warren's pictures. Warren was a huge help and great to work with.

The barrel springs give some extra room around the adjuster sleeve which is very important given the way the angles change throughout the range of motion on the GJKHPA cars.

Based on Warren's work and feedback the rear adjuster design is now complete and I just have to make more of them.


Note: Warren removed the bump stop tower completely and put a polybushings spring isolator on the nub that is under the tower.

The bump stops are now on the shocks. IMO this gives a much cleaner overall setup and avoids the need to modify the stock bumpstop tower with a shorter bumpstop and possible interference between the tower and adjuster.


If anyone is ready to order the GJKHPA setup send me a PM. :)

-Rich

csxtra
02-02-2012, 07:26 PM
Here's a pic of the car as I have the suspension height set currently:
37216

The rears could go down another 1 1/2" and the fronts can go down at least 2" more, but fender clearance is the limiting factor (no hellaflush for me). :thumb:

I am VERY happy with the car's new stance...and it rides much better than I had expected. Now to get it aligned and start tweaking the dampers to get the handling perfect.

I'll be putting together a "how-to" for installing this setup soon.

AzShadow
02-02-2012, 10:56 PM
Here's a pic of the car as I have the suspension height set currently:
37216

The rears could go down another 1 1/2" and the fronts can go down at least 2" more, but fender clearance is the limiting factor (no hellaflush for me). :thumb:

I am VERY happy with the car's new stance...and it rides much better than I had expected. Now to get it aligned and start tweaking the dampers to get the handling perfect.

I'll be putting together a "how-to" for installing this setup soon.


Mmmmm looking proper!

iTurbo
02-02-2012, 11:08 PM
Looking good Warren. I think the ride height looks perfect where you have it. I have a set from Rich (pics in post #192) that I was also going to put on my '87 CSX, but since that car is so far from running/driving, I'm going to install them on my Shelby Lancer instead this Saturday. I'll post more pics then, although I may have to send my set of adjusters back to Rich to be tweaked.

Egodriver71
02-05-2012, 12:35 PM
Looks good, nice rake to it!!!

iTurbo
02-06-2012, 11:41 AM
I did some test fitting of Rich Bryant's rear spring adjusters on my Shelby Lancer on Saturday. Went pretty well, and it was easier than I thought to install on the car (as opposed to a bare rear axle like my previous pics).

Basically to install them you just gotta put the rear of the car on jackstands, remove the wheels, remove lower shock bolts, and remove old coil springs and isolators. Then use a hydraulic jack under the rear axle to raise it way up in order to provide clearance for the drill, and drill 1/2" hole in the center of each rear spring pad. I then used a Sawzall to cut the upper spring mount/tower down since the original one gets in the way of the spring/adjuster. The adjuster bolts onto the rear spring pad using the 1/2" hole that was drilled. I would also recommend using a new poly upper isolator from PolyBushings.com. Just so you know, this isolator is the same as used on our original springs so nothing special here. Another thing to note is that no lower isolator is used. The new spring rests on the threaded adjuster instead of the actual spring pad like stock. I cut my upper isolator 'tower' down so that there was enough left to slip the isolator on. You don't want to completely remove the tower/bracket because you still need the 'nub' used to slip the isolator on.

Unfortunately, I did run into a problem with the adjuster angle being too much. I believe Rich had these welded at 20', but 15' would be better. It's difficult to say what angle would be 'perfect' because the bottom spring pad angle changes in relation to the upper spring mount as the rear suspension moves up and down. I'm going to send these adjusters back to Rich and get an updated set and try again. Will have pics soon.

csxtra
02-06-2012, 12:21 PM
I cut my upper isolator 'tower' down so that there was enough left to slip the isolator on. You don't want to completely remove the tower/bracket because you still need the 'nub' used to slip the isolator on.

I wonder if the Lancers are different than the Shadows, because on the CSX, I just had to remove two screws and the towers came off with a little persuading from a hammer. After the towers are off, there is a nub on the frame that the polybushings upper isolator fits on (albeit wth about .1" of clearance on each side).

Here's a pic of the nub after removing the tower:
37261


Unfortunately, I did run into a problem with the adjuster angle being too much. I believe Rich had these welded at 20', but 15' would be better.

15 degrees is what I came up with also, and what I modified my adjusters to (as shown in the pics posted previously). They still point slightly forward when the suspension is at full compression, but with the towers cut down or removed and the barrel springs, there should be no interference issues.

Also, I just got a set of Polybushings front strut bump stops that I'm going to test-fit on the QA-1 shocks so I won't have to worry about the tires contacting the fenders. QA-1 has some rubber ones that will work, but I'd rather have poly (and support our vendors).

iTurbo
02-06-2012, 12:40 PM
On my Shelby Lancer, I tried removing the two screws to get the upper bump stop off entirely, but it wouldn't budge. I even tried banging on it with a large sledge hammer and it still wouldn't come off. Seemed to me like it was spot welded to the frame on the inboard side. Looking at your pictures though, it seems like the same part as the CSX.

First I tried removing just the lower section with the rubber bumper. I thought that it was threaded onto the tower, but the pipe wrench I was using just snapped it off instead. Even with that removed, it was difficult to assemble everything because the tower was still getting in the way. I would have preferred to do it the way you did, but I just could not get that thing off of my car so I cut it instead.

Good to hear on the bump stops being used on the QA1. I like that idea better than trying to get the original rear bump stop to work anyway. Another thing that would be nice is if there was some kind of dust shield that would work with the QA1 so the shaft isn't so exposed to the elements. For a track car that probably isn't a huge deal, but on my daily driver SL, I may just continue to use the KYB GAJ.

37262372633726437265

That ended up not being enough, so I broke out the Sawzall.

37266372673727137268

If you look closely you can see the end of the 'nub' just inside where I cut with the Sawzall, so it may not be too late for me to do it like you did if I could only get the part off the car. BTW, your CSX looks really nice underneath! I was going to put these on my '87 CSX as well, but it's a long way off from driving so I opted to try them on my nearly 300k mile SL instead. It's been sitting more than anything for the last several years and the rust sure is starting to spread.:(

rbryant
02-07-2012, 01:58 AM
Thanks for posting the pictures. I will get the angles fixed for the next sets and of course exchange your set for one that is right.

I think my mistake was related to my original idea of having the threaded portion replace the stock bumpstop tower. When I flipped it to the bottom the angle wasn't quite the same as it was on the top which I could have realized but I just didn't think about it... :(

IMO the bottom setup is superior because the top mount requires so little modification to work. I don't see any reason not to run the bumpstops on the shocks. Does anyone know why the factory didn't put them on the shocks? Were they afraid that people would forget to add them when installing new shocks or something?

-Rich

csxtra
02-07-2012, 10:31 AM
Thanks for the lead-in on the bumpstops Rich...

An update on the bumpstops, I tried putting the Polybushings front strut bump stops on the QA1 shocks, but the id of the center hole was too big and they were about .4" too short (I must have mismeasured somewhere).

So I ended up using the QA1 BC01 rubber bump stops:
37290

They were a bit too long, but when I cut the top ring off of them they were the perfect length. Their ID is a bit smaller than the shock rod, so I used a bit of silicone grease to make it slide on. But they stay put at the top of the shock rod.

Here is one installed with the shock fully compressed ( I didn't use the washer because its ID was too small to fit over the shock rod):
37291

And to answer your question about why the bumpstops weren't on the shocks, most stock style rear shocks (including Konis) have a metal cover over over the top of the shock to protect the rod, so getting bump stops on/off would have been a pain/impossible. Since the QA1s don't have that top cover and are made to easily remove the eyelets for different applications, they make it possible to easily put the bump stops on the shocks. That's my theory.

phoebegoesvroom
02-07-2012, 11:01 AM
Oh man, I just found this thread. I'll definitely be considering this kit for my GLHS once I'm ready to go through the suspension! =)

rbryant
02-07-2012, 11:45 AM
Thanks for the lead-in on the bumpstops Rich...

An update on the bumpstops, I tried putting the Polybushings front strut bump stops on the QA1 shocks, but the id of the center hole was too big and they were about .4" too short (I must have mismeasured somewhere).

So I ended up using the QA1 BC01 rubber bump stops:
37290

They were a bit too long, but when I cut the top ring off of them they were the perfect length. Their ID is a bit smaller than the shock rod, so I used a bit of silicone grease to make it slide on. But they stay put at the top of the shock rod.

Here is one installed with the shock fully compressed ( I didn't use the washer because its ID was too small to fit over the shock rod):
37291

And to answer your question about why the bumpstops weren't on the shocks, most stock style rear shocks (including Konis) have a metal cover over over the top of the shock to protect the rod, so getting bump stops on/off would have been a pain/impossible. Since the QA1s don't have that top cover and are made to easily remove the eyelets for different applications, they make it possible to easily put the bump stops on the shocks. That's my theory.

Good pictures!

It is good to have the bumpstop be tight on the shock rod. That way if you start with it all the way up you can see how much shock travel you actually have. If things are working properly the bumpstops really shouldn't ever hit the shock body, they are a safety item to prevent the shock from being destroyed if they do.


The washer ID being too small is nothing that a step drill bit wouldn't quickly fix. :)

Good theory on the bumpstops. Most of the double shockeye shocks don't have them and that does make sense, you wouldn't be able to add them because there is no way to get them over the end. The Lbody on the other hand has a bayonet top so the bumpstop easily goes on the shock rod. I guess we are lucky with the QA1 because the top shockeye is removable and we can add the bumpstop!

One more reason to go with a Buick Regal QA1 shock on the non lbody.

-Rich

Polygon
02-17-2012, 12:44 AM
Add me to the non L-body list.

BlueBaron
02-29-2012, 12:40 AM
I'm a suspension newb. How do I choose a spring rate?

I used to run MP "road race" springs in my LeBaron for what it's worth.

rbryant
02-29-2012, 01:31 AM
I'm a suspension newb. How do I choose a spring rate?

I used to run MP "road race" springs in my LeBaron for what it's worth.

It is hard to really compare stock springs to coilover springs because the stock springs are progressive and start soft and get stronger as they compress.

Most coilover springs (including these) are linear and are the same spring rate through their entire range. Linear springs are generally considered more predictable for handling but don't give that initial soft spring feel when you go over light bumps.

6k/4k (front/rear) is what most use for a car that will be driven regularly on the street (especially the lighter cars).
7k/5k is of course slightly stiffer.
8k/6k is probably about as stiff as you want to go for a daily driver.
After that higher rates are probably better suited for the track (or teenagers that feel no pain).


Overall it is important to note that these are coilover shocks/springs and are not designed to be cushy like a stock spring.

If in doubt go with a 6k/4k. For the heavier non lbody cars or for a stiffer ride then choose 7k/5k or 8k/6k.

8k/6k really is pretty stiff though. One customer put 8k fronts on a V8 conversion which had more weight in the front than normal and actually thought that 6ks would have probably been better for daily driving...

-Rich

Reaper1
02-29-2012, 01:48 AM
I know a simple Google conversion would work, but what do those rates come out to in lb/in for all the rest of us non-metric types!? (had a little too much wine right now...so...yeah... LOL ;P )

BlueBaron
02-29-2012, 03:51 AM
What confuses me, is the "6K" option details are 6k(336lbs/in) Front - 4k(224lbs/in) Rear. [Random choice for example]
While my MP race springs are listed as 200lbs/in F - 275lbs R.

Besides the coilovers being a different rating, the rears are actually softer than fronts.

rbryant
02-29-2012, 01:07 PM
I know a simple Google conversion would work, but what do those rates come out to in lb/in for all the rest of us non-metric types!? (had a little too much wine right now...so...yeah... LOL ;P )

Multiply the kg/mm by 56 (ok it is 59.997...) to get in/lbs.

e.g.

6 kg/mm * ( (56*lb*mm) / (kg*in) ) = 336 lb/in.

-Rich

rbryant
02-29-2012, 01:22 PM
What confuses me, is the "6K" option details are 6k(336lbs/in) Front - 4k(224lbs/in) Rear. [Random choice for example]
While my MP race springs are listed as 200lbs/in F - 275lbs R.

Besides the coilovers being a different rating, the rears are actually softer than fronts.

If they were a true race application then they would be stiffer in the rear but then you have to know what you are doing.
For a car driven on the street a stiffer rear than front is not safe as it will make the rear end very unstable.

The race springs appear to be just that. If you look at the shelby springs or stock springs you will find that they are stiffer in the front.

FWD race suspensions with sticky tires that are up to operating temperature handle better with stiffer rear than fronts. Street cars handle terribly with such a suspension. Even on the track a car with the super stiff rear handles horribly until the tires warm up and make it stick. I have talked to people that tested a FWD car with super stiff suspension at the track for a few laps and almost hit the wall on the first lap and wanted to take it into the pits because it was impossible to handle. They were told to give it a couple of laps and then they loved it after the tires were warm enough to work. Sadly that isn't an option on the street so we have to run softer rear tires and deal with the understeer.

If you look at pretty much any FWD coilover application you will find similar rates to what I am offering.

If you have a pure drag car that you want a stiff spring for or a dedicated track car I can give you whatever rates you want.

Or if you tell me that you know what you are doing so that I don't have to feel bad if you hit a wall (and hopefully survive it) then I can also offer whatever you want.

-Rich

BlueBaron
02-29-2012, 02:09 PM
Or if you tell me that you know what you are doing so that I don't have to feel bad if you hit a wall (and hopefully survive it) then I can also offer whatever you want.

LOL I had a boss that taught me, "The customer is always right, no matter how wrong they are".

I guess I'll have to decide if I still feel like a teenager. I'll likely go with the 8K. I don't race the car at all. But I did enjoy the firm feel of the MP springs. I only had to dodge pot holes and manhole covers. :)

rbryant
02-29-2012, 03:21 PM
LOL I had a boss that taught me, "The customer is always right, no matter how wrong they are".

I guess I'll have to decide if I still feel like a teenager. I'll likely go with the 8K. I don't race the car at all. But I did enjoy the firm feel of the MP springs. I only had to dodge pot holes and manhole covers. :)

I am happy to offer whatever people want but IMO those options shouldn't be in the "off the shelf" list. :)

If you want 12k rear with 4k front then I am happy to sell them that way but I would hope that someone doing that would have a good reason and know what they are doing. :)

I will add a 'custom spring rates by request" option to the dropdown and you can just specify them in the order notes.

One thing to note is that with adjustable shocks it is possible to really stiffen them up a lot. So if you have an 8k front and 6k rear you can always loosen the front and tighten the rear when at the track. That will actually make it feel more like an 8k/8k setup. Swaybars can also be used to play around with things but IMO it is best to get your springs to the correct rates for whatever you use the car the most for.

If you want something like an 8k/7k setup where you normally run tight in the front and loose in the rear and then change to loose in the front tight in the rear at the track that can be done but the rear might take some getting used to on the street (as you have probably experienced with the MP race springs).

Or we can order extra rear springs for $150/pair to swap in at the track for as long as they are within 2k of the original spring. If they are more than 2k different from the original then the shocks should be revalved to match the springs because they normally come valved for the correct spring range.

-Rich

Force Fed Mopar
02-29-2012, 08:55 PM
The rear springs are stiffer than the fronts on G/J/P/etc-body cars because of the suspension design. The wheels have more leverage on the spring because of it's location. On chilort's Daytona we are trying out 325lb frt/375lb rr springs, but he is planning on road racing it and doesn't much care about a soft ride on the street.

rbryant
02-29-2012, 09:16 PM
The rear springs are stiffer than the fronts on G/J/P/etc-body cars because of the suspension design. The wheels have more leverage on the spring because of it's location. On chilort's Daytona we are trying out 325lb frt/375lb rr springs, but he is planning on road racing it and doesn't much care about a soft ride on the street.

Interesting point. Perhaps I missed something there being from the lbody crowd.

Well we can certainly go with stiffer rear springs if that is what works best on the non lbody.

I did start to do some calculations to figure out the stock rear rates based on the spring free and compressed heights once and dismissed them because the rates were coming up too high in the rears and I thought I was missing something. I will have to go back and repeat that now to see if they were right after all but it is still very difficult to compare progressive and linear spring rates so it still might not be possible to calculate.

This non coilover rear spring setup on the non lbody continues to be a pain in my side. :)

-Rich

Force Fed Mopar
02-29-2012, 09:37 PM
Interesting point. Perhaps I missed something there being from the lbody crowd.

Well we can certainly go with stiffer rear springs if that is what works best on the non lbody.

I did start to do some calculations to figure out the stock rear rates based on the spring free and compressed heights once and dismissed them because the rates were coming up too high in the rears and I thought I was missing something. I will have to go back and repeat that now to see if they were right after all.

This non coilover rear spring setup on the non lbody continues to be a pain in my side. :)

-Rich

Lol, well I thought it was you that told me that, but I guess it was someone else :) But yeah, before that I couldn't figure out why the rear rates were always higher for non-L-body cars. After hearing it it made sense. The other thing is, the spring rates for all the different springs for them have a large variance in the front and rear rate differential. Some are nearly the same front and rear, while others have a 70+ lb difference. The rates are all listed in the Stock Suspension FAQ I created and maintain over on BM, if you want to study it.

rbryant
02-29-2012, 10:22 PM
Lol, well I thought it was you that told me that, but I guess it was someone else :) But yeah, before that I couldn't figure out why the rear rates were always higher for non-L-body cars. After hearing it it made sense. The other thing is, the spring rates for all the different springs for them have a large variance in the front and rear rate differential. Some are nearly the same front and rear, while others have a 70+ lb difference. The rates are all listed in the Stock Suspension FAQ I created and maintain over on BM, if you want to study it.

Hmm...

I remember a discussion about how the leverage was "different" and I might have mentioned it but I never realized that they actually came with stiffer rear springs from the factory. For some reason it is easy to find lbody spring specs but the non lbody is harder to find.



If you look at the rockauto specs they state the following:

Front:

Free Height 17.7" to 17.3" depending on the spring
Compressed Height 12"

If we assume that the springs are linear in that range and the car weighs around 3000lbs with 60% of the weight on the front:

900/5.7 = ~158lb/in
900/5.5 = 163.6lb/in
900/5.3 = ~170lb/in (used on the passenger side to offset the weight of the AC)

All of that seemed fine to me...


The thing that seems way off is the rears:

With 40% of the weight left we have 600lb per side

There are 3 variants that I see:

RAYBESTOS Part # 5911035
Free Height: 11"
Compressed Height: 9"

600/2" = 300lb/in (that doesn't seem right so I stopped my calculations)


Now that I look at them there are more springs available that make more sense


RAYBESTOS Part # 5911003
Free Height 11.8"
Compressed Height 8.4"

600/3.36 = 176lb/in (reasonable).


RAYBESTOS Part # 5891076
Free Height=12.19"
Load height=8.44"

600/3.75 = 160 (also reasonable)

So prehaps the bottom line is that the non lbody might be better with a more even spring setting of 6k/6k or 8k/8k.

All of these calculations are highly dependent on the springs being linear for the first part of their travel and the weight ratio being right.

-Rich

Reaper1
03-01-2012, 12:29 PM
A long time ago I thought it was found out that the P-body Eibach's were rated like this: 300fr/330r (of course this is the linear part of the spring).

rbryant
03-01-2012, 12:41 PM
A long time ago I thought it was found out that the P-body Eibach's were rated like this: 300fr/330r (of course this is the linear part of the spring).

One other thing to consider is that we are making the adjuster align the spring angle. This will nearly eliminate the bend that the stock springs have. I will look into it but I would guess that the bow in the springs also affects the rates, leverage, etc and changes things.

-Rich

Reaper1
03-01-2012, 01:27 PM
I agree. I've been thinking about a spring perch that pivots to keep the spring from being at an angle throughout the suspension travel. I've had this idea for a few years. I've seen something similar on a Mercedes IIRC.

BlueBaron
03-01-2012, 05:48 PM
I had the crazy thought of urethane springs. They'd be a cylinder. Far too much R&D, including new measurement equipment for me to tackle though.

rbryant
03-01-2012, 09:19 PM
I had the crazy thought of urethane springs. They'd be a cylinder. Far too much R&D, including new measurement equipment for me to tackle though.

Perhaps a very large spherical bearing or better yet a ball joint (so that it is sealed) on the adjuster...

That should allow for 10 degrees or more of automatic spring adjustment. The spring would want to stay straight so it would automatically move the joint similar to how a strut works.

Perhaps a ball joint that is already bolt on with a threaded shaft would be a nice solution. The ball joint would be cheap and should easily handle the load.

I am sure there is a simple old school threaded ball joint out there that can bolt on with just a few holes drilled into the frame... Probably for a F0rd or Cheby would work best.

Then I don't have to worry so much about the spring angles on my adjusters being a compromise either. :)

-Rich

Force Fed Mopar
03-01-2012, 10:22 PM
I agree. I've been thinking about a spring perch that pivots to keep the spring from being at an angle throughout the suspension travel. I've had this idea for a few years. I've seen something similar on a Mercedes IIRC.


Perhaps a very large spherical bearing or better yet a ball joint (so that it is sealed) on the adjuster...

That should allow for 10 degrees or more of automatic spring adjustment. The spring would want to stay straight so it would automatically move the joint similar to how a strut works.

Perhaps a ball joint that is already bolt on with a threaded shaft would be a nice solution. The ball joint would be cheap and should easily handle the load.

I am sure there is a simple old school threaded ball joint out there that can bolt on with just a few holes drilled into the frame... Probably for a F0rd or Cheby would work best.

Then I don't have to worry so much about the spring angles on my adjusters being a compromise either. :)

-Rich

Hmm, those are good ideas. I am working on building the rear coil-overs on chilort's '86 Daytona right now, and having been researching/thinking about how best to do it. I was thinking of re-designing the lower spring perch to be slightly deeper and and different angle for the adjuster sleeve to sit into, but a pivoting lower perch might be the way to go. Be easy to do too, relatively speaking.

rbryant
03-01-2012, 10:38 PM
Hmm, those are good ideas. I am working on building the rear coil-overs on chilort's '86 Daytona right now, and having been researching/thinking about how best to do it. I was thinking of re-designing the lower spring perch to be slightly deeper and and different angle for the adjuster sleeve to sit into, but a pivoting lower perch might be the way to go. Be easy to do too, relatively speaking.

If we just added one of these:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/search-pivoting-spring-perch.html
37879

Between two rod ends (with the threads bolted downward through the spring pad) it would probably work with my existing design.

It would just make it about 1" taller so if someone wanted to slam the car they might need a shorter spring.

-Rich

Reaper1
03-01-2012, 11:36 PM
I thought about using a plate that rides on a pivot where the axle of the pivot would be in double shear. The axle would be attached to a frame that would be welded to the rear axle. My only concern would be transferring the load to the axle without overloading the frame.

iTurbo
03-02-2012, 03:27 AM
Then I don't have to worry so much about the spring angles on my adjusters being a compromise either. :)

-Rich

I applaud you guys for giving so much thought to this particular subject regarding the rear springs, and I admit it's very possible you are all far smarter than I am. However, I think you guys might be overthinking things here. My opinion is that if we can zero in on the best lower spring seat adjuster angle, then 95% of people buying these will be happy. Consider the fact that additional parts such as some kind of pivoting lower spring seat or ball joint to do the job, such as would be required to optimize rear spring angle throughout it's travel, would both increase the cost *and* chance of component failure. Also realize that since the lower spring seat angle in it's stock form is fixed without modification that it is always going to be a compromise since the angle changes throughout it's range of motion.

I myself and Warren Stramer (csxtra) have test fitted Rich's rear spring adjusters for the K-based cars on our own cars. Warren did in his '87 CSX and I did on my '87 Shelby Lancer with pics posted previously in this thread. Initially Rich, by way of a very edjumacated guess, thought that a 20' angle on the lower spring seat would work well on our cars. Warren test fit them first on his CSX and stated earlier in this thread that 15' would be better. Later, I test fit Rich's adjusters on my SL and personally I thought that something between 10-15 degrees would be better for my car. If I had to guess I would say 12.5 degrees might be perfect but it's impossible to say without further testing. I sent my rear spring adjusters back to Rich and they are being modified and will be retested by me as soon as they return!

That being said, It's my opinion that a pivoting lower spring seat would be somewhat overkill but I absolutely think it's interesting to read about. I would like to see the BMW setup Reaper1 mentioned...although as far as practicality I am skeptical. Rich is correct when he states that there is a enough offset that the stock springs on the K-based cars 'bend', as I have witnessed this on my own Shelby Lancer with stock and Eibach coil springs. Think about it, with the factory design of the rear axle, the lower spring seat angle is constantly changing in regards to the upper spring seat since it pivots. No matter what angle the lower spring seats are made it is a compromise just as Rich has stated. This is because the relationship between the upper and lower spring seats is constantly changing throughout it's travel up/down.

As soon as I get my revised rear spring adjusters back from Rich I will retest them on my Shelby Lancer and post pics. The first set I received from Rich were 20', and if you look at my previous posts they were a bit too much as far a angle. Warren thought that 15' degrees would be good. He may very well be right....although it is my opinion a bit less angle would be ideal compared to the Eibach spring set....we shall see as more testing is required.

iTurbo
03-02-2012, 03:57 AM
Also, as far as the L-body BC Coilver kit is concerned....I recently bought a set from Rich for my own GLH Turbo. I have recieved the entire kit but have yet to test fit it to my Omni. Previously Bryan (black86glhs) got these but they were ordered with the DSM rears. The kit I bought (following further development) came with Toyota Tercel rear BC struts.

With the DSM style rear struts that Bryan got, a custom lower rear bushing from PolyBushings was required. I have yet to test fit the Tercel version BC rears to my Omni, but I have done some preliminary testing with an L-body rear axle out of an '85 Shelby Charger. So far it looks like the custom bushing will no longer be required, although a different bushing sleeve will be. The bushing sleeve that came in the Tercel BC rear struts are too short to fit the rear axle, and the ones that Rich sent with the kit are the right length to fit the L-body rear axle but they are too large diameter to fit the strut bushing eyelet. Considering my past experience getting the QA1 rear shocks to fit my Shelby Lancer, I am confident this problem can be overcome easily as soon as we find the right bushing sleeve.

I really gotta get my Omni GLH Turbo out of the garage!!! It's been in there since about '06. Problem is the garage it's in is too small to do test fitting of these parts so hopefully I will be able to pull it out soon and get it in our shop for some real work. Will post pics soon, don't want to keep you guys waiting. These BC Coilover kits that Rich is putting together are NICE!!

Force Fed Mopar
03-02-2012, 08:42 AM
Actually, if I am thinking correctly, the angle gets smaller as the suspension compresses. If you have it sitting on jackstands with the wheels hanging, that is the most angle it will see. I'll have to go look at my Lebaron, but I'm betting there is very little angle when the car is resting w/ full weight on the wheels. What angle there is, is probably from the top spring perch.

black86glhs
03-02-2012, 12:30 PM
Also, as far as the L-body BC Coilver kit is concerned....I recently bought a set from Rich for my own GLH Turbo. I have recieved the entire kit but have yet to test fit it to my Omni. Previously Bryan (black86glhs) got these but they were ordered with the DSM rears. The kit I bought (following further development) came with Toyota Tercel rear BC struts.

With the DSM style rear struts that Bryan got, a custom lower rear bushing from PolyBushings was required. I have yet to test fit the Tercel version BC rears to my Omni, but I have done some preliminary testing with an L-body rear axle out of an '85 Shelby Charger. So far it looks like the custom bushing will no longer be required, although a different bushing sleeve will be. The bushing sleeve that came in the Tercel BC rear struts are too short to fit the rear axle, and the ones that Rich sent with the kit are the right length to fit the L-body rear axle but they are too large diameter to fit the strut bushing eyelet. Considering my past experience getting the QA1 rear shocks to fit my Shelby Lancer, I am confident this problem can be overcome easily as soon as we find the right bushing sleeve.

I really gotta get my Omni GLH Turbo out of the garage!!! It's been in there since about '06. Problem is the garage it's in is too small to do test fitting of these parts so hopefully I will be able to pull it out soon and get it in our shop for some real work. Will post pics soon, don't want to keep you guys waiting. These BC Coilover kits that Rich is putting together are NICE!!Jeremy, you'll get it figured. I totally forgot about the tercel stuff working on the omni. That gives us 3 different setups that can be easily modded to run in our cars. Awesome work guys. :thumb:

iTurbo
03-03-2012, 05:06 AM
Thanks Bryan. I was aware of the DSM rears being an option and had already bought the rear/lower bushings from polybushings.com, but Rich/I wanted to investigate the Tercel possiblity so I went with those instead. So far it *looks* like the custom lower bushing will not be required, but no promises as I still have to test fit on the actual car rather than this bare Shelby Charger rear axle in my bedroom..I will also look into mag lug nut top being required or not.

BTW...I was aware of the DSM rears (and now Tercels), but what is the 3rd possible rear setup you alluded to??

And tonight I was rereading my post and I hope none of you took it the wrong way. The way I see it, you all and mostly Rich are the brains behind all this stuff and I'm just the test-fitter! So I hope I didn't come off too harsh because I really do like reading others ideas so forget whatever I said! I sure as hell wouldn't have thought of a pivoting or ball joint equipped lower seat. Although I must say I'm happy thus far with Rich's rear spring solution for the K-based cars.

Force Fed Mopar
03-03-2012, 08:47 AM
No offense taken here :)

Looking at my Lebaron, the lower spring seats are parallel to the ground with the car at rest. So most of the angle is in the top spring seat. I'm thinking a bolt-on upper spring seat that eliminates the angle (or at least alleviates it) may work good.

Reaper1
03-03-2012, 11:28 AM
No offense taken here, either. I'd like to figure out how the rate of a spring is affected by the angle from wish the force is applied to it. That would answer our questions and set us up for a real solution vs. Just guessing. Honestly that isn't something they cover in classes and I've not seen it mentioned in books, so I might have to do some more research to figure this out.

rbryant
03-03-2012, 05:23 PM
Thanks guys as with everything in our hobby we are constantly evolving and brainstorming new things. As soon as something works many of us (myself included) have some sort of affliction that requires us to try and make it better. :)

I agree that the rear perches at some angle between 13 and 16 will be a very good setup that will work for everyone and it is actually cost effective.

Ideas like the articulating spring seat could be nice or they could be a disaster due to the extra complication. I think they are something that we can try later on and are certainly not required. The discussion is what makes the hobby fun so while perhaps it should be in a different thread I greatly value the open discussion.

I strongly feel that we have already come up with the best bolt on coilover kit out there and it is ready (or nearly ready) for "mass" production. IN our world "mass" might still mean only 10-20 sets but that is what makes us a really unique niche group.

I greatly everyone that have taken their time to help develop these and taken some risk/reward on them. Without that cooperation this would never have happened. The continuing effort on things like testing the Tercel rears insted of the DSM rears is aimed at making a great product better. There will be no change in functionality it is simply an attempt to make everything more bolt on with less custom bushings, eliminating offset bushings, etc.

This is a great discussion on spring rates, etc lets keep it going so we can all get the best possible product configuration.

-Rich

black86glhs
03-03-2012, 06:42 PM
Thanks Bryan. I was aware of the DSM rears being an option and had already bought the rear/lower bushings from polybushings.com, but Rich/I wanted to investigate the Tercel possiblity so I went with those instead. So far it *looks* like the custom lower bushing will not be required, but no promises as I still have to test fit on the actual car rather than this bare Shelby Charger rear axle in my bedroom..I will also look into mag lug nut top being required or not.

BTW...I was aware of the DSM rears (and now Tercels), but what is the 3rd possible rear setup you alluded to??

And tonight I was rereading my post and I hope none of you took it the wrong way. The way I see it, you all and mostly Rich are the brains behind all this stuff and I'm just the test-fitter! So I hope I didn't come off too harsh because I really do like reading others ideas so forget whatever I said! I sure as hell wouldn't have thought of a pivoting or ball joint equipped lower seat. Although I must say I'm happy thus far with Rich's rear spring solution for the K-based cars.I think(bad idea depending on the time of day....lol) the other one was the VW setup. I may be thinking of the fronts, but I thought the rears were close too.
Rich, am I thinking right?

iTurbo
03-03-2012, 09:41 PM
IIRC Rich and I were considering VW Golf fronts for the front setup that I bought for my Shelby CSX. We eventually decided to stick with the SRT4 struts because the Golf strut-to-knuckle connection width were just a hair too wide to work with our knuckles. They would 'work' but the difference was too slight to make a spacer work and it would have squeezed the strut tabs over the knuckle leg which we didn't really like. Not sure about the VW rears though.

Force Fed Mopar
03-03-2012, 10:46 PM
There are quite a few setups that are close for the L-body. Me and t3rse went the junkyard DSM route years ago because it was the first one we found that was close enough to work easily and were easy to find. I remember looking at Tercel stuff and thinking it was close enough to use, but since I was looking for junkyard swaps I left them alone because stock Tercel parts aren't very performance enhancing :p Maximas, Sentras, Eclipses, and several others are very similar in design, so when buying aftermarket you have quite a few options that can be researched.

rbryant
03-04-2012, 12:41 AM
IIRC Rich and I were considering VW Golf fronts for the front setup that I bought for my Shelby CSX. We eventually decided to stick with the SRT4 struts because the Golf strut-to-knuckle connection width were just a hair too wide to work with our knuckles. They would 'work' but the difference was too slight to make a spacer work and it would have squeezed the strut tabs over the knuckle leg which we didn't really like. Not sure about the VW rears though.

The MK3 Golf rears are too long for the lbody. Earlier year VW shocks would work but they don't offer those...

The other big issue with the VW setup from BC was that they don't come with camber plates and the strut shaft is different than the cars that do come with camber plates like the Impreza or SRT4....

That makes the SRT setup a much better value because all I need to do is provide replacement to plates and spacers and not full camber plates.

-Rich

Turbo Joe
03-20-2012, 12:16 PM
any updates for those following the thread?

rbryant
03-20-2012, 05:26 PM
any updates for those following the thread?

I just got word today that the prototype height adjusters have been rewelded at the new angle so I need to get them and send them to Jeremy. That means I should be able to get them to him by the weekend.

After Jeremy checks the angles the rest just need to be welded and I can then send your set to you and take new orders.

-Rich

iTurbo
04-02-2012, 12:16 AM
I got the revised angle adjusters back from Rich last week and did a bunch of test fitting with them over this weekend in the Shelby Lancer. I'm really happy with how the revised ones turned out. Even after installing them and doing a ton of adjustments and measurements and putting the car up on/off jackstands about a dozen times I wouldn't change anything about them. They fit the car really well too. Looking at the spring with the car parked on the ground, it appears to be compressing and seating against the upper/lower perches properly with no coil bind. That is one thing I really hated about the Eibach rear springs was that the bottom 6 coils were already bound together with just the weight of the parked car on them!

I found that the range of adjustment on my Shelby Lancer is about 2 1/2" total. Compared to the Eibach springs these replaced, I can adjust the rears to be 1/2" higher than the Eibachs were, all the way down to 2" lower than the Eibachs. Currently I have them set at just a little higher than what it was before with the Eibach springs which goes along with the uncut Eibach front springs that are still on the car.

Despite all the installing/test fitting with the rear adjusters today, I'm still on the KYB GAJ shocks. They seem to do OK with the new BC rear springs, but there is no bumpstop anymore so I don't dare push the car much until installing the new QA1 shocks and bumpstops. Might get around to that next weekend hopefully.

Reaper1
04-02-2012, 09:45 PM
SWEET! That's good to know.

rbryant
04-03-2012, 04:38 PM
All,

GJKHPA Kits ready for production

I have everything in place now and I am ready to take more orders for GJKHPA body suspensions. The setup will still require non BC rear shocks and a bumpstop solution (such as bumpstops on the QA1 shocks) but everything else is ready to go.

Other Updates:

Lbody:

Based on work leveraged from Harry's (tryingbe) adaptation of Tercel rear shocks and Jeremy's (iTurbo) testing the lbody kit now no longer requires an offset or custom bottom rear bushing. The top adaptation will remain the same (using the MAG lugnut) and the bottom adaptation is the addition of a 3/8" spacer on each side of the rear shocks which will be provided with the kit.

Caravan:

I also have adapters in stock for Caravan Fronts if anyone is looking to upgrade their Caravan to BCs!

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

-Rich

BlueBaron
04-04-2012, 03:01 AM
Will the front setup fit behind a 7-1/2" wide wheel?

rbryant
04-04-2012, 03:14 AM
Will the front setup fit behind a 7-1/2" wide wheel?

It depends on the offset. On I have 16x7 wheels on my lbody with a 40mm offset and still have over 1/2" to spare.

I believe you can fit a 7.5" wheel even with a 40mm offset but most would probably go with a 30mm offset just to keep things more centered.

If you run a tall tire or lower the car a lot then it might also have more clearance problems than I do but I still don't think a 7.5" wheel is a problem. Coilovers give a lot more room than the stock suspension does.

-Rich