View Full Version : ZR1 Vette, Porsche Turbo S, and Viper ACR
bris09
10-06-2010, 07:53 PM
Take a guess at the order of fastest to slowest. I'll let you know the results in a few days.
They lined up after a local car show last Saturday. The parking lot gave them enough room to run over an 1/8 mile and slow back down. Cars were hitting well over 100mph for a dead stop. They made numerous passes and the result was always the same.
When guessing figure in that traction was a big issue.
BadAssPerformance
10-06-2010, 08:05 PM
Which Turbo S? Which ZR1, 2010? who was driving?
bris09
10-06-2010, 08:18 PM
Sorry
2010 Viper ACR
2009 ZRI
Not sure of the year on the Turbo S. Not more than two years old. Owner said it was 536hp if that helps.
The owners of the cars were driving. Each knows how to drive their given car. All three were said to still be stock.
BadAssPerformance
10-06-2010, 08:21 PM
Well, from a dig w/o traction it's probably Porsche, ZR1, ACR... on a strip with traction I'd put them the opposite order, LOL
bris09
10-06-2010, 08:23 PM
Close but not quite.
thedon809
10-06-2010, 08:35 PM
Zr1 and acr are a drivers race. Don't know about porsches.
DodgeZ
10-06-2010, 09:08 PM
didn't hit over 100 with street tires in the 1/8....
BadAssPerformance
10-06-2010, 09:11 PM
didn't hit over 100 with street tires in the 1/8....
I wasnt gonna say it... figured it had to be longer
bris09
10-06-2010, 09:40 PM
didn't hit over 100 with street tires in the 1/8....
Reread the first post. I said they had room to run over an 1/8. One a couple passes they ran to the point they had to leave the lot and go on the access road. On those passes it would have been close to a 1/4 mile. Most runs were more than an 1/8 and less than a 1/4. Sorry, didn't take a tape measure.
DodgeZ
10-06-2010, 09:54 PM
Reread the first post. I said they had room to run over an 1/8. One a couple passes they ran to the point they had to leave the lot and go on the access road. On those passes it would have been close to a 1/4 mile. Most runs were more than an 1/8 and less than a 1/4. Sorry, didn't take a tape measure.
Sorry I am an engineer, I like all the details. on a 1/4 run I'd say ZR1,ACR porsche and as long as all drivers are good. 1/8 run I'd say Porsche (guessing it is AWD), ZR1 then ACR. From what I have seen at the track the owners of most high dollar sports cars can't drive worth a crap tho. So any of them could win. lol
bris09
10-06-2010, 10:02 PM
Here's a link to the Porsche. Yes it was AWD. Apparently the owner overstated the HP by six.
http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-turbo-s/featuresandspecs/
I'll let some more people take a guess then I'm give the order. It surprised me.
BadAssPerformance
10-06-2010, 10:58 PM
From what I have seen at the track the owners of most high dollar sports cars can't drive worth a crap tho. So any of them could win. lol
Word...
bris09
10-06-2010, 11:33 PM
Kinda hard to screw up when it has an auto with launch control.
Trust me these guys know how to drive. They all also own Pro-Street cars w/ 1200+hp.
BadAssPerformance
10-06-2010, 11:35 PM
Kinda hard to screw up when it has an auto with launch control.
They make an automatic Viper ACR?
bris09
10-06-2010, 11:37 PM
Was reffering to the $160K Porsche. Vette and Viper were stick.
Greedy
10-07-2010, 08:12 PM
Trust me these guys know how to drive. They all also own Pro-Street cars w/ 1200+hp.
That still doesn't mean they can drive.
What do their 1200+hp cars run??
bris09
10-07-2010, 09:46 PM
That still doesn't mean they can drive.
What do their 1200+hp cars run??
Does it really matter? From what I witnessed, they can drive their cars. Since I can see where this thread is going I'll give the order.
Porsche by 3-4 car lengths on both cars everytime. AWD and launch control does wonders. The longer distance they ran the uglier it got. I have a whole new reapect for Porsche. I'll no longer refer to them as a supped up VW.
Viper everytime over the Vette. If the Vette didn't hook early it was a car length. When the Vette found traction it was about four feet.
At a prepped track I'd say the Viper vs Vette is deffinitely a drivers race. On the street the Vette really struggled for traction even with the traction control on (was actually slower with TC on). Viper fought for traction as well but seemed to hook sooner even when sideways off the line.
This is not about which car is faster on paper or at the track. This is what happened when 3 people who owned $100K+ cars decided to play in a parking lot. Would have been fun to see if all three could have hooked right away and been able to run full throttle the whole way. Only the Porsche was able to keep it to the floor.
Well im sure that was a cool race to watch but with a pretty predictable result. 4wd > 2wd on a short track.
contraption22
10-07-2010, 11:35 PM
I'd still take the vette out of any of them... minus the dumbass see-thru hood.
BadAssPerformance
10-07-2010, 11:37 PM
Great... more LSX gazers ;)
ForzaV12
10-07-2010, 11:45 PM
Big deal. High HP AWD wins a parking lot showdown by three balloon heads.
Greedy
10-08-2010, 07:35 PM
Does it really matter? From what I witnessed, they can drive their cars. Since I can see where this thread is going I'll give the order.
Porsche by 3-4 car lengths on both cars everytime. AWD and launch control does wonders. The longer distance they ran the uglier it got. I have a whole new reapect for Porsche. I'll no longer refer to them as a supped up VW.
Viper everytime over the Vette. If the Vette didn't hook early it was a car length. When the Vette found traction it was about four feet.
At a prepped track I'd say the Viper vs Vette is deffinitely a drivers race. On the street the Vette really struggled for traction even with the traction control on (was actually slower with TC on). Viper fought for traction as well but seemed to hook sooner even when sideways off the line.
This is not about which car is faster on paper or at the track. This is what happened when 3 people who owned $100K+ cars decided to play in a parking lot. Would have been fun to see if all three could have hooked right away and been able to run full throttle the whole way. Only the Porsche was able to keep it to the floor.
Sure it matters.
One guy has an automatic with awd and the others are both stick.
I've been in slower cars(auto) that have beaten faster cars(manual) because the driver can't drive.
You should get them all to go to the track now that would be interesting.
It is actually pretty cool they at least drive their cars like they were meant to be.
Traction control isn't designed to make your car run a quicker et at the track so the fact the vette was slower with it on is no suprise.
AWD FTMFW!
Mike T here has a 09 ZR1 and even has the higher boost pulley on it, but without some serious wheel/tire upgrades (or at least the newer model's "launch" mode feature), they can't hook below 40MPH, I suspect the ACR is in a similar boat... That said, in an equal race, my best guess would be Porsche, ZR1 and ACR, though it is very close...
Mike
Traction control isn't designed to make your car run a quicker et at the track so the fact the vette was slower with it on is no suprise.
I tend to think that 90% of ZR1 owners could probably not do any better than their traction control system without constant practice.
Mopar318
10-08-2010, 11:06 PM
Was reffering to the $160K Porsche. Vette and Viper were stick.
The ZR1 is close to the same price. We had one in the shop at work today. Seat shell had cracked. The only metal in the seats are the alluminum bushing that hold the back rest to the bottom...and the hardware of course.
They still use GM's shitty leather they have been using for the past 10 years or so. It last about 6 months before it turns to ----.
DodgeZ
10-08-2010, 11:38 PM
Damn thing comes with all the goodies
Cylinder-specific knock control Standard
Direct fuel injection (DFI) Standard
Individual ignition coils, static high voltage distribution system Standard
Variocam Plus variable valve timing and lift Standard
Expansion intake manifold Standard
2 turbochargers with variable turbine geometry (VTG), 2 intercoolers Standard
A new 911 Turbo S has been announced by Porsche for production in 2010. This is, in essence, a fully optioned Porsche 911 Turbo. It has a PDK gearbox, sport exhausts, and other such options as standard. It also comes with re engineered turbos to give an extra 30 horsepower. A 2010 911 Turbo was tested 0-60 in 2.8 seconds with the PDK transmission by Car and Driver magazine.
BadAssPerformance
10-08-2010, 11:41 PM
Damn thing comes with all the goodies
wow, and this coming from the biggest LSx fanboy ;)
ForzaV12
10-09-2010, 01:05 AM
The ZR1 is close to the same price. We had one in the shop at work today. Seat shell had cracked. The only metal in the seats are the alluminum bushing that hold the back rest to the bottom...and the hardware of course.
They still use GM's shitty leather they have been using for the past 10 years or so. It last about 6 months before it turns to ----.
Not really. 45K is not "close". The Porsche will get the jump, the ZR1 will catch it, pass it and outrun it around any road course you chose(as will the Viper).
GM leather crap? Hasn't been my experience. Bought my GTO new in 2004. Still looks new. So does the leather in my '67 Vette for that matter.;)
contraption22
10-09-2010, 07:37 AM
The leather in my parent's '08 Malibu looks better after a year and a half than the leather in my sister-in-law's bimmer.
Maybe GM saves the crappy leather for the cars over $90k.
Mopar318
10-09-2010, 08:49 AM
Not really. 45K is not "close". The Porsche will get the jump, the ZR1 will catch it, pass it and outrun it around any road course you chose(as will the Viper).
GM leather crap? Hasn't been my experience. Bought my GTO new in 2004. Still looks new. So does the leather in my '67 Vette for that matter.;)
Yup, its pretty much a crap shoot, there seems to be no quality control. Maybe I just see all the junk they put out since I work on Interiors.
Compared to what I use on my customers seats, yes the GM leather is crap. I think they use a better quality leather in a 120k car. But thats just my opinion. 1960-1980's cadilacs have really nice leather from all of the cars I have seen. The vinyl tops even last 30 years and still look nice.
Oh, and for us "Poor" people. Anything between 100-200k is pretty close in price...lol. If you had 120k for a vette...you probally wouldnt have to hurt yourself to come up with another 45k for a porsche.;)
I really liked the vette. Especially how it kept beeping at me to tell me the seat was gone.The little butter flyed exhaust are cool too.:D
bris09
10-09-2010, 09:14 AM
I'd still take the vette out of any of them... minus the dumbass see-thru hood.
They're not so see-thru after a few months. Lots of complaints of dis-coloration. Sorry but out of the three the Vette is my last choice. Viper all the way. If for no other reason than it looks better. Especially in the snakeskin green.
While I give the Vette props for its performance, I haven't cared for the styling since the 60s. The only Vette I'm interested in owning is a 63 that still has the split windows.
Greedy, I realize a drivers ability has everything to do with which car can win as does traction. What I said doesn't matter is what their Pro-Street cars run. They were handling their street cars well enough for me to say they know how to drive them. Been around racing long enough to have an idea of who can and who can't drive. Some peope actually do buy a sports car to drive em like thye were built to be driven not as a status symbol.
DodgeZ
10-09-2010, 09:52 AM
wow, and this coming from the biggest LSx fanboy ;)
Don't be mad that a stockish z06 can hang with your race car.
BadAssPerformance
10-09-2010, 10:04 AM
Don't be mad that a stockish z06 can hang with your race car.
There he is, LSx fanboy :clap:
Not mad at all in fact I root for the Vette team in ALMS racing.
Race car? You forget, mine is a street car homie.
...and besides, it should be fast... since 1987 with 23 years of development with GM funding a new Vette should be quicker than the (got my car in 1994) 16 years (including the ramen noodle college years) of development on "JT funding" :D
DodgeZ
10-09-2010, 04:11 PM
There he is, LSx fanboy :clap:
Not mad at all in fact I root for the Vette team in ALMS racing.
Race car? You forget, mine is a street car homie.
...and besides, it should be fast... since 1987 with 23 years of development with GM funding a new Vette should be quicker than the (got my car in 1994) 16 years (including the ramen noodle college years) of development on "JT funding" :D
I bet you have more money in your car then you can pick a used z06 up for.
BadAssPerformance
10-09-2010, 04:43 PM
I bet you have more money in your car then you can pick a used z06 up for.
Probably not, even if you count my labor at shop rate... but otherwise no way... its good to know how to fab.
Besides, its just another vette, lots of cool ones out there, fast ones too, gotta be well into the single digits to be a "fast" vette tho... big woop
Ondonti
10-09-2010, 09:29 PM
Huge ACR fanboi but no, the ACR can't beat the ZR1 at the drag strip.
The ZR1 loses on the street because it can't hook up as well there.
Silly race when you know who is going to win without even thinking. There are probably some 300hp Evo's that could have taken 2nd place to the 1/8th.
bris09
10-09-2010, 11:18 PM
Huge ACR fanboi but no, the ACR can't beat the ZR1 at the drag strip.
The ZR1 loses on the street because it can't hook up as well there.
Silly race when you know who is going to win without even thinking. There are probably some 300hp Evo's that could have taken 2nd place to the 1/8th.
Sure glad there just happened to be three silly car owners. You never know who is going to win. You only think you do. Otherwise no one would race against a TD because they know they are going to beat it.
Greedy
10-10-2010, 01:07 AM
Greedy, I realize a drivers ability has everything to do with which car can win as does traction. What I said doesn't matter is what their Pro-Street cars run. They were handling their street cars well enough for me to say they know how to drive them. Been around racing long enough to have an idea of who can and who can't drive.
When questioned on their driving abilities you were the one who said they owned 1200+ hp cars, as if that alone made them good drivers,so I asked what they ran.
Have they ever had these cars(porsche,zr1,acr)to the strip?
bris09
10-10-2010, 12:00 PM
When questioned on their driving abilities you were the one who said they owned 1200+ hp cars, as if that alone made them good drivers,so I asked what they ran.
Have they ever had these cars(porsche,zr1,acr)to the strip?
Don't know, don't care. Doesn't change what happened. The original purpose of this thread was to share the results of one encounter between three very pricey and impressive factory cars. They could run today and the results could be completely different. The purpose of mentioning the Pro-Street cars was to let those willing to actually guess the results know that they could guess based more on the cars not the driver's ability.
You can internet and paper race all you want. Until you line the cars up and go racing you will never know the results. Even then that does not gaurantee the results will be the same everytime. That was the result for that one time only. Sooner or later the other car will win.
The really nice thing was there was no crying or excuses from the car owners. No. If I could've hooked, if we would have ran longer, if we ran at the track, if we ran a road course, etc. They were just having fun which was the intent of this thread.
ForzaV12
10-10-2010, 12:09 PM
I bet you have more money in your car then you can pick a used z06 up for.
So? Its not always about the money. Some enjoy tinkering and modifying an unusual vehicle to provide unexpected performance.
Nothing wrong with Z06's-great cars. But, playing with an oddball platform does have its rewards-otherwise we'd all drive Camrys.;)
DodgeZ
10-10-2010, 01:37 PM
So? Its not always about the money. Some enjoy tinkering and modifying an unusual vehicle to provide unexpected performance.
Nothing wrong with Z06's-great cars. But, playing with an oddball platform does have its rewards-otherwise we'd all drive Camrys.;)
He brought up the money point not me...
thedon809
10-10-2010, 02:04 PM
Huge ACR fanboi but no, the ACR can't beat the ZR1 at the drag strip.
The ZR1 loses on the street because it can't hook up as well there.
Silly race when you know who is going to win without even thinking. There are probably some 300hp Evo's that could have taken 2nd place to the 1/8th.A stock 08 up viper is about equal to a zr1 at the strip. Both have hit 10's on stock tires. Don't know if the aero stuff hurts the acr though.
Yeh, new viper vs zr1 is a driver's race, and i dare say the Viper is probably easier to hook than the zr1.
thedon809
10-10-2010, 02:36 PM
Yeh, new viper vs zr1 is a driver's race, and i dare say the Viper is probably easier to hook than the zr1.I was watching that supercar show and the 08 viper was a car or 2 faster from 1st to 4th gear. It wasn't until the viper hit 5th when the vette passed it. The 2010 viper remedies this with better 5th gear ratio. They ran them to 180mph I believe. I got the chance to drive an 08 viper at work. :D <- my face the whole week.
BadAssPerformance
10-10-2010, 10:18 PM
He brought up the money point not me...
I was gonna let this go, but since you like to argue and you're always right :rolleyes:
What does my post below have to do with the cost of a used vette? The millions of dollars invested by GM was the point... that you missed.
Race car? You forget, mine is a street car homie.
...and besides, it should be fast... since 1987 with 23 years of development with GM funding a new Vette should be quicker than the (got my car in 1994) 16 years (including the ramen noodle college years) of development on "JT funding" :D
Ondonti
10-11-2010, 07:00 AM
A stock 08 up viper is about equal to a zr1 at the strip. Both have hit 10's on stock tires. Don't know if the aero stuff hurts the acr though.
I am thinking about the aero and also a good track surface, not a parking lot. I think the zr1 just can't hook off a good track. c6 z06 can run 10's on a DR bone stock. Guessing the zr1 can do a little better.
contraption22
10-11-2010, 09:38 AM
GM has been developing the C6 ZR1 since 3 years before the C4 ZR1 came out?
BadAssPerformance
10-11-2010, 09:41 AM
GM has been developing the C6 ZR1 since 3 years before the C4 ZR1 came out?
Its called Product Evolution.
contraption22
10-11-2010, 10:21 AM
Its called Product Evolution.
So by that reckoning, the C6 has actually been in development since the early 50's. So anything slower than mid 3's in the 1/4 and 5g's on the skidpad is kinda lame.
BadAssPerformance
10-11-2010, 11:01 AM
:rolleyes:
DodgeZ
10-11-2010, 01:47 PM
I was gonna let this go, but since you like to argue and you're always right :rolleyes:
I didn't reply to your last post.
What does my post below have to do with the cost of a used vette? The millions of dollars invested by GM was the point... that you missed.
I was trying to understand what you were talking about. Not sure why you would bring up design cost tho? Are you trying to say you are better at designing a car then GM is? Either way you still have more money in your car then a used z06.
DodgeZ
10-11-2010, 01:49 PM
:rolleyes:
You got pwn'ed
BadAssPerformance
10-11-2010, 02:21 PM
I was trying to understand what you were talking about. Not sure why you would bring up design cost tho? Are you trying to say you are better at designing a car then GM is? Either way you still have more money in your car then a used z06.
I was trying to understand why you would compare a Z06 to a modded 1987 K-based-car :confused2:
Nope, never said I was better at that... one guy with a garage compared to a team of excellent engineers and corporate funding? Right. ...I even implied that the Z06 was a nice car. Hey, wait a minute... maybe you should buy one?
How much is a used Z06? Wait... I don't care.
How much do I have in my car? Honeslty I stopped adding it up years ago. Its my R&D car so wait... I don't care.
Oh, and just because... I pwn'ed yer momz there Z06 fanboy ;)
bris09
10-11-2010, 07:14 PM
JT, you can lock the thread if you want. It's going nowhere fast just like the beloved ZR1 when run on the street.
DodgeZ
10-11-2010, 09:10 PM
I was trying to understand why you would compare a Z06 to a modded 1987 K-based-car :confused2:
Nope, never said I was better at that... one guy with a garage compared to a team of excellent engineers and corporate funding? Right. ...I even implied that the Z06 was a nice car. Hey, wait a minute... maybe you should buy one?
How much is a used Z06? Wait... I don't care.
How much do I have in my car? Honeslty I stopped adding it up years ago. Its my R&D car so wait... I don't care.
Oh, and just because... I pwn'ed yer momz there Z06 fanboy ;)
Your momz likes to take a ride in my stick shift z06....
DodgeZ
10-11-2010, 09:11 PM
JT, you can lock the thread if you want. It's going nowhere fast just like the beloved ZR1 when run on the street.
bris, the z06 part is an inside joke.
DodgeZ
10-11-2010, 09:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuKXKd_tSG0
thedon809
10-11-2010, 09:55 PM
That's pretty damn fast. There are a couple full weight vipers running mid 7's at nearly 200mph though.
BadAssPerformance
10-11-2010, 10:26 PM
Your momz likes to take a ride in my stick shift z06....
Yer mom wanted to take a ride in the Z but she couldnt fit in the hatch....
GLHSHELBY
10-30-2010, 05:54 PM
I would have liked to see that race. ACr would be the only one I`d drive of course,but the ZR1 is the best vette ever IMO .
bris09
10-30-2010, 08:33 PM
I would have liked to see that race. ACr would be the only one I`d drive of course,but the ZR1 is the best vette ever IMO .
It was fun for sure. It was also cool to see the cars from the 50s and 60s going at it.
dodgeshadowchik
10-31-2010, 06:46 AM
Awd ftw ;)
tsiconquest88
11-07-2010, 11:38 PM
I read about this re-amped 2010 vette zr1 with 638 hp and 604 ft lb of torque that ruled the Nissan gtr and porsche 911 turbo in a 3 way competition. And it is rear wheel drive (as you know) unlike both the other cars. This vette has PTM (designed by GM and its a traction control system). Anyway read about it. This car really proves rear wheel drive can be better than awd when optimally done.
I couldnt remember what mag i read about it in, so i just searched google. Link is below about it. So I guess nissan now needs to up their game lol. Just figured i would share this since Porsche seemingly proved in this thread, but this better ZR1 ruled a more important series of race against 3 cars that are supposed to be such kings.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/culture-clash
I dont think its fair to say RWD can be better than AWD when optimally done, because if manufacturers wanted to they could make AWD turn into RWD on the fly based on how it distributes power. Comparing specific AWD systems to RWD there will definitely be pros and cons, but comparing all the possible ways AWD can be done to all the possible ways RWD can be done.. and the AWD is always going to end up on top.
tsiconquest88
11-08-2010, 03:07 PM
No what i was saying is obviously the manufacturer in this case made a RWD system that proved better than those 2 cars happened to be awd. Not chevy's fault we made something good for once lol. These werent drag races. They were tests that awd typically beats rwd.
DodgeZ
11-08-2010, 03:15 PM
I dont think its fair to say RWD can be better than AWD when optimally done, because if manufacturers wanted to they could make AWD turn into RWD on the fly based on how it distributes power. Comparing specific AWD systems to RWD there will definitely be pros and cons, but comparing all the possible ways AWD can be done to all the possible ways RWD can be done.. and the AWD is always going to end up on top.
You can't remove the extra weight of the AWD on the fly!
You can't remove the extra weight of the AWD on the fly!
Thats true, but when your rear drivetrain doesnt have to handle 600 hp, it doesnt have to weigh as much as one that does..
tsiconquest88
11-08-2010, 05:23 PM
Yea but when you have over 600hp in RWD and can outdo 2 high end AWD cars with even less power and not blow the rear end of your car in circles in a road course and instead take out those 2 high end AWD cars is a darn good job in building a rwd car. Thats all my point is. Not saying RWD is better, just gm's new PTM in that vette is a great addition to the vette. And in turn apparently is able to take on some of the better cars that have awd. This vette has very good potential to have such high power AND still able to tackle a road course with rwd against 2 awd cars.
is a darn good job in building a rwd car. Thats all my point is.
I agree with you there. :)
I'm a big fan of RWD (go figure why I own so many FWD cars!), but an "optimally" tuned AWD set-up will be much more capable than a RWD set-up.
This example isn't necessarily what is being done, but rather an example of what could be done: When limited by contact tire size, the AWD can have a greater "driven" contact patch, coupled with active traction/yaw control, it can add/remove power from any given wheel, which can help to keep the nose going in the right direction, as well as help "pull" the car around a corner. It can even spread out the weight of the car onto the tires more evenly by adjusting the applied power to each wheel...
While you can do much of the same with RWD, you can't do it all, or to the same extent, so, no specific car withstanding, AWD gets the win!
Mike
PS I still think it's more fun to drive a RWD car!
thedon809
11-08-2010, 07:45 PM
You don't need no stinkin awd. Here is a fine example of how to launch a high powered rwd car that doesn't have no gay electrical nannies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kp0yjz2jI4&feature=player_embedded
Here is a fine example of how to launch a high powered rwd car that doesn't have no gay electrical nannies.
With restraint? Most people dont buy 600hp cars so they can exercise restraint.. I wonder how many lives and cars Vette's nannies have saved?
tsiconquest88
11-08-2010, 08:54 PM
Lol vettes havent been known as live savers. However there is that one scene that has been on many of those car crash/chase video shows on tv, where that guy in a 80's vette or whatever year it was, that wrecked, the car blew up everywhere but the guy flew off the side of the highway still in the seat haha. Was perfectly fine. Luck? or vettes just not as bad as people say over the years? Personally i wouldnt know, dont like vettes and never have lol. But I give respect where its due lol. And the above work on that upgraded zr1 is very well done.
Last time i autoX'd a vette i could tell a huge difference with the stability control. As in, it will save your ---.
thedon809
11-09-2010, 07:35 PM
With restraint? Most people dont buy 600hp cars so they can exercise restraintThey need to grow a pair of balls.
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