Big News on 91+ Hawk Brake pads

[rbryant]

All,

The Bad News:

I recently discovered that Hawk is discontinuing the 11" 91+ Front (RT) HPS and LTS Brake pads for our cars.

The Good News:

They had a large inventory of them and I just bought them all as an investment.

This will keep them for us instead of them being sold to aging fleet vehicles of caravans, etc. I have a large supply of them which should keep us in brake pads for quite some time and I can offer them at a reduced price.

They have arrived at a friends business due to the fact that they were on pallets so I will be able to start selling them shortly.



I bought these because I really believe they are a great pad. Additionally I believe the 91+ brakes are the best that are available for our cars. My wife even runs HPS pads on her car and after I changed them she told me how much she likes the extra stopping power and that they are quiet and don't squeal like her original pads.

I will post pictures of my sample set that they previously sent me this evening and figure out some introductory pricing.

-Rich

[turbovanman²]

Damn, :wow1:

[JohnnyIroc]

whats the price of a set?

[johnl]

Cool. Great score.

[mcsvt]

Great, my Sundance will be needing some.

[turbovanman²]

whats the price of a set?


The Good News:

They had a large inventory of them and I just bought them all as an investment.

This will keep them for us instead of them being sold to aging fleet vehicles of caravans, etc. I have a large supply of them which should keep us in brake pads for quite some time and I can offer them at a reduced price that is TBD.

Pffttttttt...

[rbryant]

Pffttttttt...

Hehe well I am trying to figure out what kind of sale to run...

For the first week how about:

$40 a set for one set shipped

Order Here (http://rbryant.freeshell.org/brake_products.htm)


That makes them 50% off retail or basically 2 for 1 with no shipping (or tax for non AZ residents).

I may increase the cost depending on how it goes. As you might guess I have a bunch of money tied up in these.

Here are the pictures:

25872
25871

These pads didn't get chamfers before they discontinued them so they actually have more pad area than the normal ones and should last longer.

Chamfers are there to keep them quiet but they can easily be added with a file or grinder if desired.

Additionally most pads are chamfered on both edges even though it unnecessarily removes friction material just to make them symetrical so that the pads aren't "directional" and side specific and it prevents people from installing them incorrectly.

The chamfer is really only functional on back side of the pad (toward the rear of the tire) where the rotor turns up into the pad.



Note that Rockauto currently has the 60mm calipers for 11" brakes with brackets for $18 per side and rotors for $13:

Reman Calipers with Brackets:

A-1 CARDONE Part # 18B4362
Front Right; w/15" Wheels; OE Phenolic Piston;Supplied w/Mounting Bracket $17.99

A-1 CARDONE Part # 18B4363
Front Left; w/15" Wheels; OE Phenolic Piston;Supplied w/Mounting Bracket
$18.04


Rotor:

RAYBESTOS Part # 7992 More Information About this Part PG Plus; Outside Diameter 11.1" / 5 Bolt Holes

-Rich

[Force Fed Mopar]

What level of performance are these pads? Are they like oem replacement, or are they like a track compound or something?

[TonaChris]

This i guess is a noob question, but whats the difference between 90 and 91+ pads? I have a 90, but i thought i had the big brakes (never measured them though). And thanks for keeping them in the community!

[T-Bohn]

subscribed

[135sohc]

This i guess is a noob question, but whats the difference between 90 and 91+ pads? I have a 90, but i thought i had the big brakes (never measured them though). And thanks for keeping them in the community!

The shape, size, mounting style of the pads, caliper and knuckle design are different. They are not cross compatable.

[rbryant]

What level of performance are these pads? Are they like oem replacement, or are they like a track compound or something?

These are the Hawk High Performance Street (HPS) Semi Metallic pad.

They are a street pad which is important because you don't have to heat them up for a lap before they work like you would with a race pad. They also don't have the high dust characteristics of a race pad

They are designed to give 20-40% more stopping power while still acting like a street pad that doesn't dust, squeal, or chew up rotors.



Here is the description from Hawk:



HPS - High Performance Street disc brake pads are world renowned for increasing stopping power on your street legal vehicle. Increasing the performance of your vehicles braking system is easy when you choose Hawk Performance’s HPS braking compound. This unique Ferro-Carbon formula was developed for street performance using the safety and quality of Aerospace and Motorsports severe-duty friction technology.

The High Performance Street compound offers a higher coefficient of friction over stock brake pads and can provide you 20-40% more stopping power and higher resistance to brake fade than most standard replacement pads. Less fade means you will have a highly durable brake pad with less brake dust.


http://www.hawkperformance.com/performance/hps.php




So to more directly answer your question, they are more like a higher performance pad that you can use like an OEM pad.

-Rich

-

[rbryant]

The shape, size, mounting style of the pads, caliper and knuckle design are different. They are not cross compatable.

Thanks, Exactly right.

The calipers, knuckles, and pads are different on the 89/90 11" brakes than the newer 91+ brakes.

I have always stated that I feel that the 91+ brakes are better. This was my opinion well before I bought the pads that make me biased. :) It was also a big reason that I bought the pads.

Looking at reman prices, changing to the 91+ brakes can be done quite cheaply on the GJKHPA body cars.



The spindles are a dime a dozen at the junkyard because you can get them from a 10" brake car. Just get the spindle and leave the hub and 10" caliper bracket.

The caliper brackets and calipers can be obtained from a 91-94 caravan (but don't use the caravan spindles because they have the wrong tie rod machining and a 5x114 hub)

I think the calipers are still about $16 for an autozone reman.
Rockauto has the calipers and brackets for $18!

The rotors are the same between all of the 89-93 11" brake cars.

The bolt in hubs are the same between the 89 11" cars and all 91+ cars.



Of course it will require an alignment so it is best to do this when changing struts.

-Rich

[135sohc]

The caliper brackets and calipers can be obtained from a 91-94 caravan (but don't use the caravan spindles because they have the wrong tie rod machining and a 5x114 hub)

Just make sure your pulling the parts from a van w/11" rotors. All 91+ vans got the 60mm caliper to put out the extra stopping power they needed, but they still came in two sizes, along with that bolt on adapter. One for the 10.25" rotor/pad and the other for the 11" rotor/pad combo.

[Badger]

yeah Rich, thanks for keeping these in the TD community.....great job!

[rbryant]

Just make sure your pulling the parts from a van w/11" rotors. All 91+ vans got the 60mm caliper to put out the extra stopping power they needed, but they still came in two sizes, along with that bolt on adapter. One for the 10.25" rotor/pad and the other for the 11" rotor/pad combo.

Ahh that makes sense...

I have both brackets and they almost look compatible but they must not be.

Here is the 10.25" (undesireable) caliper picture courtesy of rockauto and cardone:
http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=417461&imageurl=http%3A//www.cardone.com/Imagesftp/14/141200-01.jpg


Here is the 11" picture courtesy of rockauto and cardone:
http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=1318907&imageurl=http%3A//www.cardone.com/Imagesftp/14/141210-01.jpg

The spacing on the bracket sliders is the same but the 11" bracket must be out a little farther to clear the rotor.

-Rich

[4cefedomni]

If I got the $18 bracket/caliper combo and rotors which spindles would these bolt onto?

[rbryant]

If I got the $18 bracket/caliper combo and rotors which spindles would these bolt onto?

Any 91+ GJKHPA body spindle will work. The 10" and 11" ones were the same.

The Caravan's were slightly different because they have a 5x114mm hub (which can be swapped out) and the bigger issue is that their tie rod connection is machined in a different spot to reduce turning radius (which isn't desireable on a car).

-Rich

[moparman76_69]

If you were converting a older van over to the 91 up setup you'd want to use the van spindle though correct?

[rbryant]

If you were converting a older van over to the 91 up setup you'd want to use the van spindle though correct?

Yes for a van it is probably best to stick with a van.

Although if you are careful to check for rub and not lock your wheel all the way in a fast turn the car spindle might allow you to have a shorter turn radius for slow speed turns.

-Rich

[overboostmotorsports]

RBRYANT

thanks for keeping these alive. talked to hawk about a year ago and they planned on discountinueing them then,but funds were not where they needed to be lol ! my .02 on these is they are WAY better than oem compound still a good street but a VERY GOOD track/DD compound for the $$$$$$. but i have run these on a few other brand cars and THEY DUST UP YOUR NICE WHEELS. i know what hawk says they DON'T but DON'T LET THE DUST UP DETER YOU. just don't be lazy and clean your wheels more often hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!! I am very lazy about that !!!!!
BETTER than ebc red stuff compuond i have run on same platform (non td) back to back. pushed to the limit on the street(very aggressive driver hehehehe) with zero fade !!!!!!

as for the price SMOKIN!!!!!!! considering autostoned generic pads are $25.00 !!!!!!!!!!

GREAT JOB ON THE SCORE!!!!!!! YOU GUYS NEED TO BUY THESE !!!!!!!

[Reaper1]

The actual pad puck is the same between 89/90 and 91-93, it's the backing plate that is different. There are more choices for the '91-up pads, but I don't like the fact that they float. I have them on my car and would preffer them to be more like the 89/90 ones because I never had a wear issue with those. The '91-up ones always seem to wear funny (outside pad more than inside pad)

Also, I thought that you could provide a backing plate to Hawk and they would reline it with whatever puck material you wanted? I know that Carbotech and Porterfield will.

At any rate, I'll have to really keep this in mind as I need new pads for my car, and I HATE my choices at work (The Zone).

BTW, any clue as to where to get GOOD rotors for the 11" cars? Like, made in USA rotors?

[rbryant]

The actual pad puck is the same between 89/90 and 91-93, it's the backing plate that is different. There are more choices for the '91-up pads, but I don't like the fact that they float. I have them on my car and would preffer them to be more like the 89/90 ones because I never had a wear issue with those. The '91-up ones always seem to wear funny (outside pad more than inside pad)

Also, I thought that you could provide a backing plate to Hawk and they would reline it with whatever puck material you wanted? I know that Carbotech and Porterfield will.

At any rate, I'll have to really keep this in mind as I need new pads for my car, and I HATE my choices at work (The Zone).

BTW, any clue as to where to get GOOD rotors for the 11" cars? Like, made in USA rotors?

I disagree about the 89 brakes. The extra clips and everything are a pain to deal with.


EBC makes dimpled and slotted rotors for the 11" brakes and a plain slotted version.

I just got a pair of dimpled and slotted rotors for 125 shipped (the slotted only ones were around $112). I will have to get some installed pictures as soon as I get my frame back from powdercoating...

They also make the matching non vented rears. Unfortunately they do not make the vented rears.

Autozone has the worst brake pads ever. They are the loudest weakest pieces of junk that I have ever used (and those were the duralast gold pads).

These are really the same price as the parts store pads give the fact that I got them at a discounted rate.

-Rich

[Reaper1]

I agree with the 'Zone pads sucking the big one!

The clips and such on the 89 pads makes sure that they CAN'T wear unevenly unless the caliper is sticking. With the floating pads they get -----eyed in there and wear all messed up. I had to change my pads with about 30% more left on the rear pad than the front pad because of this. I NEVER had that issue with the '89/90's. And yes, my hardware was all replaced at the time of the conversion.

[rbryant]

I agree with the 'Zone pads sucking the big one!

The clips and such on the 89 pads makes sure that they CAN'T wear unevenly unless the caliper is sticking. With the floating pads they get -----eyed in there and wear all messed up. I had to change my pads with about 30% more left on the rear pad than the front pad because of this. I NEVER had that issue with the '89/90's. And yes, my hardware was all replaced at the time of the conversion.

I haven't had that issue with them. What brand of pads were you using?

These are basically 40-50% off so Even if that did happen it would still be a win.

They also have stainless shims that go on the brake pad inside of the sliders to keep them tight. Is it possible that your caliper brackets are worn and a little sloppy?

-Rich

[Reaper1]

I haven't had that issue with them. What brand of pads were you using?

These are basically 40-50% off so Even if that did happen it would still be a win.

They also have stainless shims that go on the brake pad inside of the sliders to keep them tight. Is it possible that your caliper brackets are worn and a little sloppy?

-Rich

Rich, I want to make clear to EVERYBODY that I'm not saying this is a bad deal by any means! I think it's a GREAT deal for a good product! :thumb:

The pads I used that wore funny were from Carbotech. They were XP8 race pads. I know they sourced the backing plate out of house because they told me they did. I don't know what brand they used, but I'm assuming to keep costs low for them it was some parts store special...might have even been Auto Zone! LOL :lol:

I did make sure to use the anti-rattle springs and all when I installed them along with new pins and pin bushings and I greased them very well.

It could be that the brackets are worn, but the pads didn't show signs of wearing unevenly top to bottom, just the fronts were worn more than the rears indicating the rear pad was not following the piston back when it was retracted.

I honestly want to adapt a spring set that FORCES the pads away from the rotor when the brakes are not applied. I've seen this before on other cars, but the brakes are if a different design.

I've also had this issue with the single pin 10.25" front brakes as well and it is part of the reason I stopped putting the anti-rattle clips in those, so the pads could float easier. Yeah, they make noise, but at least they don't get stuck! LOL

In the end I eventually want to upgrade to Brembo's or the like and be done with this whole limited pad selection and somewhat satisfactory OEM design! :D That won't be for a while though.

[rbryant]

It could be that the brackets are worn, but the pads didn't show signs of wearing unevenly top to bottom, just the fronts were worn more than the rears indicating the rear pad was not following the piston back when it was retracted.



Hmm.... Are you sure that they had the same thickness when you installed them?

The clips don't "pull" the pad backwards or even help them backwards.

Once the pressure is released the friction of the rotor will push the caliper in since it is no longer under pressure. When there is friction it creates enough force to push the caliper piston backwards and "kicks the pad away from the rotor. Granted there is always some drag with disc brakes but if the caliper slides properly it should self center and wear the pads roughly evenly. The inside pad does make first contact on a floating caliper but as soon as it does the piston will float to where it applies pressure on the outer pad so the difference is minimal.

Unless the caliper pistons are sticking and holding the pad to the rotor they should wear pretty evenly. I did some more reading and everything I read says that uneven wear is caused by the caliper not sliding one way or the other.

They can stick either on the sliders, the bracket, or they can also be plugged up with sludge inside of the caliper behind the piston so that they don't retract properly.

When I upgraded to 11" brakes on my GLHS I popped the piston out of my original brakes and was really surprised at how much sludge was inside of the caliper bore. Over the years that stuff really adds up and can severely impact your brake system. After that I knew why my brakes seemed less than adequate.

-Rich

[Reaper1]

Before I installed those pads I completely flushed the system with brand new race fluid (the blue stuff, I forgot the brand right now). Yes, I'm sure the front pads had the same thickness as the rears.

If you are reffering to the clips on the back of the pads that would engage the inside of the piston, then I don't see how they don't help to retract the pad. The piston doesn't just stay out once the brake pedal is retracted. They HAVE to move a little bit away from the disc due to the system being sealed and the MC introducing a volume with less pressure for the fluid to flow, so it does flow backward and will pull the piston in some. Of course not all the way, that's why we have to push them back in when we change pads! LOL

I bled them again after my race weekend.

I wish I had the time and resources (aka $$$) to throw at this problem to solve it, but right now I don't. It could be that my calipers need to be rebuilt, or that the adapters are too worn, ect. ect. My only observation is that I didn't have this issue with the older style of these same brakes, but now I do. BTW, I'm using the same calipers, so those are really the only "constant" in this problem. The rest of it was nabbed from junk donor cars and vans.

Anyway, I don't want to take away from your thread too much! I think you have a great deal on these pads and they are a great product! I hope that when I need some street pads that you'll still have some and I can purchase them from you!

[rbryant]

If you are reffering to the clips on the back of the pads that would engage the inside of the piston, then I don't see how they don't help to retract the pad. The piston doesn't just stay out once the brake pedal is retracted. They HAVE to move a little bit away from the disc due to the system being sealed and the MC introducing a volume with less pressure for the fluid to flow, so it does flow backward and will pull the piston in some. Of course not all the way, that's why we have to push them back in when we change pads! LOL


In reading on this most sources say that the piston retracts more because of the release of pressure on the piston seal which pulls it back slightly and that it isn't a vacuum.

I see the locating clip as more of a way to keep the brake pads in place on a brake that doesn't have a fully captured bracket for the pad. These pads have a U in them that actually slides back and forth on the caliper bracket so they can't fall out. Because of that they don't need the clip.

I can see your point about it holding them back from the rotor but even without the clip the pads will still push backward as far as the caliper lets them rather than rub on the rotor. The pad won't stay engaged with the rotor if there is anywhere else for it to go. It is actually desirable for the pad to stay very close to the rotor for several reasons including rattles, knockback, etc. If the caliper really pulled away from the rotor more than a few thousandths of an inch the pedal would feel really squishy...

The only time I have found a caliper to "need" a rebuild was when it has sludge inside of the bore. A flush is a great thing but if your calipers are gunked up internally like my originals were the gunk probably wouldn't come out with a flush.

The rebuilt calipers for these brakes are only $16-18 at Autozone so that really might help. Or you can pop one open with compressed air and take a look. Just make sure you have some wood or something against the outer pad surface because they come out pretty fast and it can chip the phenolic ones.

At any rate it is impossible for me to know exactly what happened in your system. I don't however think that the major reason for your uneven wear was due to the lack of an inner locating clip.

-Rich

[OmniLuvr]

damn! calipers and brackets from rock auto are cheaper then the same from the junkyard on half off sale. i ripped myself off :( and rich, im retarded, can you flip one of the bracket pictures upsidedown so i can compare brackets. i bought le baron 11" spindles and brackets, and the caravan 11" calipers (they looked newer), but didnt get the pads or rotors. so these pads should work? or is there 2 different 11" 91 and up pads?

[rbryant]

damn! calipers and brackets from rock auto are cheaper then the same from the junkyard on half off sale. i ripped myself off :( and rich, im retarded, can you flip one of the bracket pictures upsidedown so i can compare brackets. i bought le baron 11" spindles and brackets, and the caravan 11" calipers (they looked newer), but didnt get the pads or rotors. so these pads should work? or is there 2 different 11" 91 and up pads?

The calipers really are cheap. I knew Autozone had them for $16 rebuilt but I was really surprised to see them with the brackets for $18...

Can't rotate it in your mind? ;)

11"
26053

10"
26054


The 11" calipers move the caliper mounting points outward slightly. The sliders also have to clear an 11" rotor. It similar in concept to the differences between the 11" vented and 10" non vented rears.

The 10" ones are easy to spot because they have the part that sticks out that looks like a 1/4" thick flattened U shape in the middle of them... It is shown clearly on the bottom of the shot of the 10" bracket.

-Rich

[rbryant]

A couple of people have asked me for specific part numbers from Rockauto that I mentioned about the 60mm calipers with 11" brackets for $18.

They do have a $25 core that has to be returned but that isn't a big deal. Calipers will fit in a medium flat rate box for $10.

Here you go:

Right Side:
A-1 CARDONE Part #
18B4362

price core total
$17.99 $25.00 $42.99

Left Side:
A-1 CARDONE Part #
18B4363
- Stocked in outlying warehouse--shipping delayed up to 1 business day

price core total
$18.04 $25.00 $43.04

Just use the "Part Number Search" tab and enter "18B4362" and "18B4363"

They also have a steel piston version for a few bucks more. In general the phenolic is probably better anyway because it won't boil the fluid as easily.

-Rich

-

[OmniLuvr]

thanks rich, i still takin pain pills for my scafoid wrist surgery, i couldnt stop the brackets from spinning in my head;)

[rbryant]

thanks rich, i still takin pain pills for my scafoid wrist surgery, i couldnt stop the brackets from spinning in my head;)

Broken scafoids suck...

That is a good excuse to not want to do graphic editing or mental rotations...

I broke my left scaphoid playing basketball back in '00. Mine was not misaligned so I just had to wear the stinking cast for 3 months in 110 degree heat and didn't get the surgery.

Note to others: Never put down a hand when you are undercut and falling down because if you land on your thumb you might break a scaphoid!

-Rich

[Badger]

thanks for the PN#'s Rich AND the advice!

[OmniLuvr]

two compression screws and a bone graph from my hip, it hurts twice as bad now then when i first broke it. my thumb hurts the worst because they basiclly had to filet my thumb off to get the screws in the scafoid, then sew it back together. good times, and ive been dealin with the pain for over a year. so if you think you broke your wrist, make sure they check that, i got misdiagnosed...

[rbryant]

One quick update which will interest primarily the Caravan crowd.

It appears that I have several boxes of LTS (light truck and SUV) pads that were included in the shipment. It wasn't clear that I was getting these but it is good news for the Caravan guys.

The LTS pads are a great choice for the caravans because they need more initial bite to stop the heavier van when they are cold. Hawk must have made these for the fleet caravans that existed back in the day.

The HPS is designed for the cars because they work fine cold on the lighter cars and then work even better when they heat up.


The LTS pads normally retail at $87 where the HPS pads retail at $70 so they were an even more expensive pad than the HPS.

I plan on running the same $40 for 1, $70 for two deal for the next week and I will also do the LTS pads at that price. Just add a note if you want LTS pads. I can also mix and match them if you would like.

After next week I plan on raising the prices a little after the initial sales pitch is over. Order now for the best deal! :)

-Rich

[rbryant]

Here are some pictures of the HPS and LTS Pads.

HPS:

26506

LTS:

26507

Now that I have both the chamfered/slotted LTS pads and the non machined HPS pads I can give even more information about the topic.

Chamfers are only approximately 3.5mm high and the slots are 4.5mm deep.

Once the pads wear beyond that point the chamfers are gone leaving 50% pad wear remaining on what is now an unchamfered pad anyway making the whole process of chamfering only applicable for half of the pad's life.

The slots last a bit longer but are still gone for the last 33% of the pad life.

Without the chamfering the pads will actually last longer and perform the same. Most companies simply chamfer pads to follow market expectations rather than trying to explain all of this. This was confirmed to me by a brake manufacturer...

I have them safely stored in my shed so they are ready to ship tomorrow and can be ordered here:
http://rbryant.freeshell.org/brake_products.htm

-Rich



-

[rbryant]

I just put the 2 sets for $70 deal back on the ordering webpage:

http://rbryant.freeshell.org/brake_products.htm

I will leave it there for another week.

-Rich

[janus]

hi guys,
gonna do a brake job soon so i was just wondering what one would use for the rear brake pads?
thanks in advance

[Chris W]

hi guys,
gonna do a brake job soon so i was just wondering what one would use for the rear brake pads?
thanks in advance

Andi,

Rich is local for us and if he has the brake pads you need we can ship them with your other items. Your order is going out on out on Monday.

Thanks!

Chris-TU

[rbryant]

hi guys,
gonna do a brake job soon so i was just wondering what one would use for the rear brake pads?
thanks in advance

Hawk still makes the rear pads for our cars (HB176f.614 for HPS, HB176Z.614 for Ceramic and they also make race compound rear pads) so they are readily available.

I wasn't able to get any closeout deals on the rear pads because they are the same pad used on Intrepids/Concordes, Startus/Breeze, PT Cruisers, and Neons (including SRT4s) that have rear disc brakes so they will continue to make them for quite some time.

EBC also makes some good pads. I have a set of EBC greenstuf pads that I can sell if you need something. They are bright green though.

I am still running the 2 for $70 deal on the fronts which is half off the original MSRP!

-Rich

[rbryant]

I am still selling both the HPS pads and the LTS (caravan pads) at 2 sets for $70 shipped.

These would be great for everyone who is putting a fresh set of front pads on their 91+ 11" brake cars this spring.

-Rich

[Force Fed Mopar]

Do those fit the R/T brakes that have the caliper bracket cast as part of the spindle?

[rbryant]

They will not fit the 89/90 cars.

The pads I have are for 91+ cars/caravans only.

These are the FMSI 522 pads.
89/90 use FMSI 414 or 416 (slight redesign?) pads.

I think there is some confusion surrounding the "RT brake" terminology. Didn't the Spirt and Daytona RTs all use the 91+ knuckles with bolt on caliper brackts?

The one piece 11" knuckles were only on the 89/90 11" brake cars. (Vented rear disc cars, and Caravans)

While the 89/90 knuckles are a bit lighter the 91+ knuckles allow for better control arm geometry.

Hawk pads aren't available for the 89/90 11+ front brakes and everything is generally cheaper and easier to find for the 91+ brakes.

-Rich

[135sohc]

What is the distance between the sliding points on these ? Is the entire brake pad physically bigger on the 11" rotors or is it just the caliper bracket positioning the pad further out to sweep the bigger rotor ?

(wonders if these could be used on the 10.25" rotors)

[rbryant]

What is the distance between the sliding points on these ? Is the entire brake pad physically bigger on the 11" rotors or is it just the caliper bracket positioning the pad further out to sweep the bigger rotor ?

(wonders if these could be used on the 10.25" rotors)

The spacings are the same but the outer radius of an 11" pad is 11" not 10" so it would overhang the outer edges of the 10" rotor.

I am also not sure if the 11" pad would fit inside of the 10" caliper or not. If it would then you could upgrade only the caliper brackets and rotors. That would give you the larger pads and more heat capacity while not affecting brake bias. It also would not require new calipers or opening of the brake system.

Overall the 11" setup is better if you are looking to upgrade. Calipers get a lot of crud built up inside of them and should be replaced after a while anyway and they are under $35 a side (with tax/shipping, etc) for reman calipers with brackets anyway and rotors are under $25 if you get basic ones... I actually have dimpled slotted EBC front rotors and they were only $125...

So for under $150:

$60-70 for reman calipers and brackets (from autozone or rockauto)
$50 for basic 11" rotors (from somewhere local because shipping stinks on rotors)
$35 for Hawk HPS pads (from me)

(10" calipers work as cores)

You get a full 11" front brake setup...

I could have bought 10" pads aswell but I thought that people would just want to upgrade to 11" anyway so it wasn't worth it.

If you really want 10" hawk pads let me know.

-Rich

[glhs0426]

I saw something strange in the local salvage when I was parting out an R/T. It had ABS and used a totally different looking caliper/pad combination than my non-ABS R/T. Forgot to take pictures, sorry.

[rbryant]

I saw something strange in the local salvage when I was parting out an R/T. It had ABS and used a totally different looking caliper/pad combination than my non-ABS R/T. Forgot to take pictures, sorry.

Someone could have used 10" calipers and pads on the 11" setup.

Overall the non ABS knuckles should be the same casting but not machined for the ABS sensor.

-Rich

[Reaper1]

I just wanted to give some feedback on these pads. I have them installed on my '88 Shelby Z with '91-up 11" brakes. I'm using EBC slotted and dimpled rotors (wanted just slotted, but they were WAY more expensive).

These pads have a very gradual initial bite. They are a LOT more progressive than a true track pad. They do grip better when warmed up a bit and the power stays linear throughout the pedal travel. They modulate easily and evenly. When they get really hot they do require more pedal, but the power is there when you dig for it.

Overall they are a great street pad and I think they'd work very well for autocross.

I did use a file on the backing plates where they go onto the caliper adpater to make sure they were smooth and square. I did NOT chamfer them.

[glhs0426]

They will not fit the 89/90 cars.

The pads I have are for 91+ cars/caravans only.

These are the FMSI 522 pads.
89/90 use FMSI 414 or 416 (slight redesign?) pads.

I think there is some confusion surrounding the "RT brake" terminology. Didn't the Spirt and Daytona RTs all use the 91+ knuckles with bolt on caliper brackts?

The one piece 11" knuckles were only on the 89/90 11" brake cars. (Vented rear disc cars, and Caravans)

While the 89/90 knuckles are a bit lighter the 91+ knuckles allow for better control arm geometry.

Hawk pads aren't available for the 89/90 11+ front brakes and everything is generally cheaper and easier to find for the 91+ brakes.

-Rich


When I put my Lebaron together, I'm gonna need a set of these pads. They sound great. Thank you for investing in our hobby.

Firebaron90 is selling a set of R/T brakes like I mentioned earlier that are not compatible with the conventional 91+ 11" brakes. I thought this brake setup was ABS only, but not on the set Firebaron90 is selling. I have to go back to the yard where I parted a 91 R/T next week. I will get a few better pictures.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29843&d=1301098903

[rbryant]

When I put my Lebaron together, I'm gonna need a set of these pads. They sound great. Thank you for investing in our hobby.

Firebaron90 is selling a set of R/T brakes like I mentioned earlier that are not compatible with the conventional 91+ 11" brakes. I thought this brake setup was ABS only, but not on the set Firebaron90 is selling. I have to go back to the yard where I parted a 91 R/T next week. I will get a few better pictures.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29843&d=1301098903

91+ brakes came both with and without ABS. Those look like 91+ brakes to me. :)

Plus you can get the knuckles from any 91+ car. If the car is a 10" brake car then just order the brackets and calipers from Autozone or Rockauto and that makes them the same as getting them from a big brake car for cheap.

No problem on investing in the hobby. It is a hobby to me too. Hopefully in time I will actually sell enough of these pads to cover my costs on the and make money but it hasn't happened yet. :(

I will probably just spend it all on the hobby again anyway though. :)

-Rich

[Reaper1]

Those are '91 up hubs. I honestly can't tell about the caliper brackets, but as Rich said, you can order the brackets REALLY cheap to make them 11". The hubs I am using are ABS hubs off a van...I've had not issues with them at all on my '88 Shelby Z.

[rbryant]

I still have lots of brake pads in stock.

How about I drop another $5 off from the purchase of a pair of them for the rest of the month...

For the next two weeks if you buy two sets you get them for $65 shipped instead of $70. That is less than half of MSRP.

-Rich

[Ondonti]

I might be going 5x114 in the front but its not money holding me back its whether I will ever get the project going. Cheaper then whatever ceramic things I got years ago at autozone. My main purpose would actually be to try to balance against the rear wilwoods I have in a box without relying too much on prop valves. Balance without some crazy upgrade setup that is unneeded in most cars.

[rbryant]

I might be going 5x114 in the front but its not money holding me back its whether I will ever get the project going. Cheaper then whatever ceramic things I got years ago at autozone. My main purpose would actually be to try to balance against the rear wilwoods I have in a box without relying too much on prop valves. Balance without some crazy upgrade setup that is unneeded in most cars.

I will never buy autozone brake pads again for any application.

I have had bad luck with all of their pads. The Napa Trustops are much better and cheaper if you want a cheaper option for pads.

-Rich