RX7 Advice...

[shelbydave]

Due to some circumstances (Daughters boyfriend being a prick), my daughter is back home and without her car (long story).
Anyhow, a buddy of mine has an '86 RX-7 that she can have. The problem right now is I have never seen it run, as it didn't have any spark when he bought it. I have NO exposure to the Rotary engine at all, so if we can get this thing to spark and run, what other stuff is there to look at? I hear that the seals tend to wear... Can they be replaced, or would it be an engine swap?

If anyone has any advice on what to look at, and how to tell if this is going to be a good car, I would appreciate it.

Thanks

[cordes]

I would avoid it like the plague. Electrical problems out the wazoo from the personal experience I have around them. You are better off to pick up a $400 Shadow and run that.

ETA: Pretty crappy gas mileage for the displacement too.

[Vigo]

I havent done it myself but from looking at those motors it would seem that taking them out to fix them would be really easy.

[BadAssPerformance]

LS1 Swap... FIRST! LOL...

[shelbydave]

Electrical problems eh? I'll keep that in mind when I go down to look at it.

Anyone know how to tell if the engine is OK or totally trash? Anyone had experience working on them?

[ShadowFromHell]

Those things are stupid easy to rebuild if you know what your are doing. I attended a "class" on them a few years ago. I think the guy went from disassembled motor to a complete on in two hours. Alot of times you just replace the apex seals and the gaskets. Everything else will be in good shape. They go for cheap because everyone is afriad of the rotary. If I had the chance for a free one, I would be all over it...

[turboaddict]

having owned over 10 sa's fb's and fc's , they are some of the more reliable vehicles i have owned. as for electrical issues the only with fc's i have had have been parking lights and one bad secondary coil.
the last fc i owned was a 86 base model that i purchased for $150 with a "blown motor". it had 186k on it, all that was wrong with it aside from body damage was that it was flooded. in fact the last 3 cars i bought only were flooded. it also managed 28mpg on the highway.
if you need it i would be more than happy to help.

[shelbydave]

having owned over 10 sa's fb's and fc's , they are some of the more reliable vehicles i have owned. as for electrical issues the only with fc's i have had have been parking lights and one bad secondary coil.
the last fc i owned was a 86 base model that i purchased for $150 with a "blown motor". it had 186k on it, all that was wrong with it aside from body damage was that it was flooded. in fact the last 3 cars i bought only were flooded. it also managed 28mpg on the highway.
if you need it i would be more than happy to help.

It will be a couple more weeks before I can get down to look take a look, but I'll most likely be picking your brain when the time comes...

Thanks!!

[mark]

the kid next door to me took his rx7 (i think its an 85-87 year) and dropped a carb'd 350 in it.
it's not bad. in my area there are a few v8 swapped ones. mostly ls1 swaps. some of them were done right and look awsome, some look... not so much as good.

[guyd_15]

ignition coils and check the coolant overflow bottle (if it looks like water escaped under high pressure) the o rings that seal the combustion and coolant passages have probably failed. Last set I bought was about $120 each.

And if it's been overheated the plates between the rotor housings will need to be Blanchard ground. Good luck finding a machine shop with that equipment.

But it still amazes me they can hot rod 69 or 79 cubic inches and make over a 1000 hp!!!!

Guy

[ShelGame]

Those things are stupid easy to rebuild if you know what your are doing. I attended a "class" on them a few years ago. I think the guy went from disassembled motor to a complete on in two hours. Alot of times you just replace the apex seals and the gaskets. Everything else will be in good shape. They go for cheap because everyone is afriad of the rotary. If I had the chance for a free one, I would be all over it...

Not necessarily. If the apex seals wore out, there's a good chance the housings are trash, too. The housings are aluminum and have an iron coating plasma sprayed on. If the coating wears out or gets grooves in it, the housing is trash. No overboring a rotary to save it. I think there are companies that will re-spray the housings now. But, I doubt it's cheap. The end housings are iron and can be surface ground and honed to save them, but the rotor housings are the killers...

[wowzer]

my son's buddy is well into the upper 400 hp range with his rx7. he has rebuilt it MANY times due to the apex seals going kablooey. last time was at the tuner's dyno. he ended up finally going down to denver to some "guru". i think he is using some sort of airplane quality seals now. its unbelievably fast, 2200 lbs or so?!?!.

[shelbydave]

Not interested in horsepower, just a decent car for her to get to work and dialysis.

[Force Fed Mopar]

my son's buddy is well into the upper 400 hp range with his rx7. he has rebuilt it MANY times due to the apex seals going kablooey. last time was at the tuner's dyno. he ended up finally going down to denver to some "guru". i think he is using some sort of airplane quality seals now. its unbelievably fast, 2200 lbs or so?!?!.

Probably Atkins' seals, big name in the rotary world. Their race car runs like 45-50 psi :thumb:

To check compression on a rotary, you have to remove the check valve from the hose and watch the bounces of the needle. Get someone to spin it for you while you watch if need be. You want to see at least around 80-90 psi on every bounce. If lower, or if one or two bounces are much lower than the other(s), then you have apex seal issues.

They will run on less (my T2 would run on 40-50 psi), but they will flood on start-up easily. My T2 had a fuel pump switch wired up, had to spin it over 2-3 times then pull the switch on and it would fire. Otherwise it'd flood. It doesn't run at all anymore though, I tried to start it on a cold winter day, it flooded and ever since has refused to start. Waiting on funds for seals and gaskets before I play with it again.

[wowzer]

Not interested in horsepower....

blasphemy!!! off with your head. :evil:

[shelbydave]

blasphemy!!! off with your head. :evil:

The car is for my daughter. I will be keeping the car in my name until I'm sure the prick doesn't sweet talk her into moving back (I don't want that a$$hole to get a free car again... He already got her car, and he doesn't even drive)
If she gets on her feet, and is done with him, she will get the car, if she moves back with him, I'll take the car, and it will be a track car after that.

[BadAssPerformance]

I don't want that a$$hole to get a free car again... He already got her car, and he doesn't even drive

Repo it...

[shelbydave]

Repo it...

She decided to cut her losses, and not fight over the car. I did insist that we pull the tags off, and turn them in since she was the only licensed driver on the insurance / registration. The fool drove the car across town before his mother told him he had no plates on the car... He called her all pissed off, made her cry, and threatened to take some action on their dogs.

This guy is a work of art, and I'm just glad she's decided to be done with him finally, before I went looking for a hit man.

Also, back when she bought the car, she had both their names on the title per his request, and against my advice. We could take the car, but would have to hide it in the garage 24 / 7 since if he took it, it's not considered theft - only driving without a license.

[ShadowFromHell]

If you have a key, I would go take the car. As long as she is with you, it is not stolen either. Lock it up, and let him take you to court, but I have a feeling that you could buy this dirtbag out of the car rather cheaply if it is worth it.

[shelbydave]

If you have a key, I would go take the car. As long as she is with you, it is not stolen either. Lock it up, and let him take you to court, but I have a feeling that you could buy this dirtbag out of the car rather cheaply if it is worth it.

Actually, it's also not about the car as much is it is about his grip on my daughter. Technically, it's HER car, as she paid for it. her mistake was letting him talk her into joint ownership with this promise that they'll be together forever. It's rather funny that we took the tags, and cancelled the insurance as now he has a car he can't use, and he can't get his license without proof of insurance.

The justice in taking the car back isn't nearly as poetic as the fact that he's screwed, and can't hold it over her to get her back...

[Shadow24]

RX7s can be very reliable if their owter/driver knows how to take care of them! they are very simple by design, only 3 major moving parts. You have to check teh oil every fillup as it burns oil by design (and the 86-88s burned a bit more than the 89-91s). Also have to keep an eye on oil press and engine temp. if the oil pressure drops off, turn the car off. if the engine starts to overheat, turn the car off.

in regards to the housings etc, you can reuse the irons (end and middle parts, which came with a very thin nitride coating) if the step wear is within limits and the and housings if the sprayed on CHROME (not iron :) ) is in good shape. They are extremely simple to rebuild but you still have to be careful and set things like end play and clearances correctly. first time rebuild is probably NOT a 2 hour rebuild :)

It sounds like it flooded and won't start now. I'd pull the EGI fuse, spin it a few times, change the oil and make sure the batt is fully charged before starting it. Also, which coils were you checking for spark on? lead or trailing?

If its truely not getting spark, my guess would be to look at the CAS (find a used OK one, of which i may have one or three :) ) and see if that is the issue.

My wife daily drives an 86 GXL and her dad and I are building an autocross/roadrace 87 with 89-91 internals :) heck the 86 is probably more reliable than my sundance ATM

[cordes]

Actually, it's also not about the car as much is it is about his grip on my daughter. Technically, it's HER car, as she paid for it. her mistake was letting him talk her into joint ownership with this promise that they'll be together forever. It's rather funny that we took the tags, and cancelled the insurance as now he has a car he can't use, and he can't get his license without proof of insurance.

The justice in taking the car back isn't nearly as poetic as the fact that he's screwed, and can't hold it over her to get her back...

I'm sure it goes without saying, but you need to coach her up big time. Otherwise it is only a matter of time before the next guy comes along. Sad situation, but hopefully a lesson was actually learned.

[Ondonti]

Have the locks changed. People here have said its not too bad.


But is this a turbo rotary or n/a. I have heard that peoples complaints about apexi seals failing on high hp turbo setups with a poor match between motor components and power level, and inappropriately applying this to n/a motors that don't suffer the extra work from a turbo.

From some above posts, maybe you can get lucky. Easy to check for spark etc.

[dds78910]

I owned a 86 N/A it had some issues when I got it and it took alot of work to get it running good and wheen we got it running good it was reliable after that. Check the vacuum lines there is alot of them, over 70 if memory serves. And check the engine grounds also. Mine just quit one day wold crank and crank but wouldnt fire. It didnt have any spark. Replaced the ecu 2 times and nothing. The problem ended up being a ground wire came loose under the intake manifold, we hooked it back up and never had a problem again. The guy I sold it to drove it to Florida from South Dakota and back and he never had any issues with it.

The MPG sucks though the best I ever got was about 17. It was a fun car to drive.

[shelbydave]

I'm sure it goes without saying, but you need to coach her up big time. Otherwise it is only a matter of time before the next guy comes along. Sad situation, but hopefully a lesson was actually learned.
We've been "coaching" her from the start. I think she just finally came to terms with the reality of what we were saying. I try not to say too much unless she brings it up because I don't want her to get the impression that we're just telling her "I told you so"



But is this a turbo rotary or n/a. I have heard that peoples complaints about apexi seals failing on high hp turbo setups with a poor match between motor components and power level, and inappropriately applying this to n/a motors that don't suffer the extra work from a turbo.

From some above posts, maybe you can get lucky. Easy to check for spark etc.
It's n/a and will remain like that.


I owned a 86 N/A it had some issues when I got it and it took alot of work to get it running good and wheen we got it running good it was reliable after that. Check the vacuum lines there is alot of them, over 70 if memory serves. And check the engine grounds also. Mine just quit one day wold crank and crank but wouldnt fire. It didnt have any spark. Replaced the ecu 2 times and nothing. The problem ended up being a ground wire came loose under the intake manifold, we hooked it back up and never had a problem again. The guy I sold it to drove it to Florida from South Dakota and back and he never had any issues with it.

The MPG sucks though the best I ever got was about 17. It was a fun car to drive.
Good to know about the grounds. I'll take a look.


It will probably be a couple weeks before I get time to go down and look at it. I'll print out this stuff out and carry with.

[TopDollar69]

I used to own a 85 GSL-SE and it was a ton of fun to drive. I think the apex seals were bad, as it would start fine when it was cold, but would refuse to start when it was warm. It was easy enough to push start when warm though. I was told that since the car had low miles and probably sat undriven for an extended amount of time that the seals had gone bad from lack of use. There did seem to be some truth to it since guys I knew that had high mileage cars didn't seem to have any problems at all. The second gen FC cars do seem much nicer than the one I had, and more roomy as well.

[Shadow24]

Have the locks changed. People here have said its not too bad.


But is this a turbo rotary or n/a. I have heard that peoples complaints about apexi seals failing on high hp turbo setups with a poor match between motor components and power level, and inappropriately applying this to n/a motors that don't suffer the extra work from a turbo.

From some above posts, maybe you can get lucky. Easy to check for spark etc.

Usually that's a bad tune or someone didn't do their research. The apex seals can take a fair bit of boost/power, its detonation that kills them, just like any other engine. but since the OP said it will stay N/A, its kind of a moot point. Its fairly hard to kill an N/A 13b and with a properly aware and educated operator, they last for a LONG time :) and are a heck of a fun car to drive!

[Ondonti]

Try making 1000 on 2 rotors with gasoline, oh wait, you can't :P
They have their limits no matter how "right" you have things.
Its a simple fact that adding a turbo to your motor exponentially increases the potential damage a poor build or tune can do to your engine.

[Shadow24]

...but since the OP said it will stay N/A, its kind of a moot point.

Brent: See above ^

to the OP: if you need some help getting it running, I can send you the FSM .pdfs i have for the 86-88 S4's and try and help as I've gotten two 7's running from poor/non running states and re-wired one of them (My wife's DD)

[ShadowFromHell]

A good friend of mine has a very nice 89 turbo 2 RX7. It runs mid 12's with a hybrid turbo, big exhaust and stand-alone. He USE to be very against V8 swaps. I talked to him this weekend and after riding in a friends fresh LS1 swapped RX7, he is really thinking of selling all his rotary stuff and putting in a lS2 with a 6spd.

[gti_7]

like any turbo mopar.. apply the following to an rx-7. patience and money. especially considering its an 86! rotorys naturally burn oil and seals, you also need to learn to drive a rotory as they require and not like a piston powered car. which is to say, redline the motor atleast once a day. let it warm up properly before you head out, and try and keep the rpms over 2k when you drive. these motors are designed to be rev'd. these motors also do not like short trips.. the motor needs to be hot before you shut it down. or you will have issues the next time you start it up. hope it helps.

[Shelby5150]

Take the car to Tom Nelson's place and he'll gladly help you fix it!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vA4CSva-NA

[dodgeshadowchik]

She decided to cut her losses, and not fight over the car. I did insist that we pull the tags off, and turn them in since she was the only licensed driver on the insurance / registration. The fool drove the car across town before his mother told him he had no plates on the car... He called her all pissed off, made her cry, and threatened to take some action on their dogs.
.
:confused:

Take action out on the dogs?! Really?! Wow. Glad she did get rid of him... usually people who abuse animals make the jump to people. What a piece of garbage.

Good idea about keeping the car in your name for the time being... good luck with it, as well!

[shelbydave]

:confused:

Take action out on the dogs?! Really?! Wow. Glad she did get rid of him... usually people who abuse animals make the jump to people. What a piece of garbage.

Good idea about keeping the car in your name for the time being... good luck with it, as well!

Yeah... this guy's a tool. My daughter bought the car originally to get to and from Dialysis. When the boyfriend put up a stink about the car (He claims he needs it for work, although he has no license), she asked him about her appointments every other day.. (You know... the appointments keeping her alive...) His response was to "take the bus".

I think she's finally seen past his BS, and realizes he only cares about himself. Everything else is a show.

[cout]

Rotaries are pretty solid as long as you don't overheat them. And even with a bad apex seal, the motor still runs, just with less power. I'm not suggesting that's a good idea, but the point is they're forgiving.

In day-to-day driving the only major issue is engine flooding. It's not an issue as long as you're aware of it, just don't shut the motor off immediately after firing it up.

I love how versatile the hatchback design is; you can keep stuffing it with stuff and still fit more stuff.

As for maintenance, here's my least favorite part about rx7's, the rat's nest:

http://www.anodized.com/~clayne/fd3s/medusahead.03.jpg

(from http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=257091 and http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123744185-So-I-want-to-buy-an-RX-7.../page4)

This is what an fd turbo vacuum system looks like *after* someone has gone through the trouble of cleaning it up.

The fb and fc were better but still had lots of vacuum lines. I replaced the bulk of vacuum hoses on my voyager in a single morning. After 3 years, I still haven't replaced all the hoses on my fc, because the intake manifold is in the way, and I'm just not that ambitious.

(I forget the exact number of hoses for the fb, fc, and fd, but iirc -- and don't quote me on this -- the number for the twin turbo fd was on the order of 200-300. Incredible!)

[roachjuice]

I hate rotorys. Just not a good design. I wouldn't have one as a daily. I'd rather drive a pos DSM with issues.

[rampant150]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxsY4lEGRBI

I always think of this when a rotary conversation comes up.

[cordes]

That link doesn't work for me.

[roachjuice]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/mobite/Rx-7motivationalpostermazda.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/mobite/627must9og2-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/mobite/rotaryengineposter.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/mobite/ls1rx7.jpg
That's all I got.

[TopDollar69]

Wow, an LS engine in a first gen RX-7, that has to be a handful.

[Spr-T-23]

heard they have REALY low torque, you have to rev the hell out of them to get any power. my buddy put a 3 rotor (i think) in the back of an old VW bug, said its sick. and as for the ex, wheres he live, im sure something bad will happen to him sooner than later....my sister dates guys like that, im getting sick of knocking them out, and to old for that crap anyways.

[RattFink]

A guy I used to work with at Firestone in Mi had an RX7 he dropped a Chevy 350 into. He did a really nice job with it, the car was sick.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Wow, an LS engine in a first gen RX-7, that has to be a handful.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB1Wrv0SiyQ

[Spr-T-23]

pretty sick, is there a dyno sheet for 1675hp? 8 seconds seems a little slow for an almost 2k hp car

[roachjuice]

nelson racing engines. guy is a genius.

[Spr-T-23]

looks fast enough to make me happy...maybe

[rampant150]

That link doesn't work for me.

Sorry, fixed now.

[Force Fed Mopar]

pretty sick, is there a dyno sheet for 1675hp? 8 seconds seems a little slow for an almost 2k hp car

Let's see you hook almost 1700 hp on street tires :) lol

[shackwrrr]

How did the magic and triangles work out for you?

[shelbydave]

How did the magic and triangles work out for you?

Magic triangles still haven't shown up here... Awaiting something with the title.

---------- Post added at 11:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 AM ----------

Since this is for the daughter (she likes the body style), and I'm not concerned with HP, a V8 is out of the question, but if there is a decent V6 conversion, I'd be all over that I think.

[Spr-T-23]

3800? leave it open for an SC later on if she gets the racing bug

[roachjuice]

Or a 4.3

[Spr-T-23]

4.3 is a cast iron boat ancor. not my fav engine but parts are cheap and east to get, order 350 stuff and throw away 25% of it.

[Force Fed Mopar]

4.3's are pretty stout actually. Plenty of 400 horse Syclones/Typhoons out there. But a stock 4.3 Vortec makes plenty of power for a daily and is fairly reliable, plus parts are everywhere.

[roachjuice]

Word. The late 90's were around 200 hp.
My fav sy


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dgIUCdAhmA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

---------- Post added at 09:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 AM ----------

Posting from iPhone is preventing me from posting a video lknk? Well search for docs syclone on YouTube. 9.0@152

[Force Fed Mopar]

Nothing like fighting torque steer and rear wheel slip at the same time lol. Saw that vid last week while surfing the 'Tube, there's a couple rwd's w/ twin turbo 4.3's pushing 1100-1200 hp too.

---------- Post added at 10:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------




Posting from iPhone is preventing me from posting a video lknk? Well search for docs syclone on YouTube. 9.0@152

I can see it. It inserts the vid into the post, doesn't just leave a link. Maybe it won't let you see the vid cause you are on a iPhone?

[shelbydave]

I don't know much about the 4.3. My buddy loves the 3800 in his firebird. That's probably what I'd lean towards if anything.

[vipernbox]

that 1700HP RX7 is unbelievably badazz....


But pulling that those stunts with oncoming traffic is more unbelievably stupid.. in a car that is as much of a handful as that one... Come on...

Have fun.. but only kill yourself please....

[roachjuice]

Nothing like fighting torque steer and rear wheel slip at the same time lol. Saw that vid last week while surfing the 'Tube, there's a couple rwd's w/ twin turbo 4.3's pushing 1100-1200 hp too.

---------- Post added at 10:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------



I can see it. It inserts the vid into the post, doesn't just leave a link. Maybe it won't let you see the vid cause you are on a iPhone? maybe. I know most Videos on websites don't work. Unless there is a YouTube link. Or something like that.