PDA

View Full Version : Aluminium auxillary shaft gears-round, square tooth and TIII!



turbovanmanČ
08-05-2010, 02:06 PM
Ok, got ahold of the guy that made mine, had a bad year in life, :( he can make more, turn around time, not sure but if your in, just post up and I'll get him on them, I am seeing him this Saturday.

Price aprox $125 each, could be less but we'll stick at that price for now. I'll have him drill them too, unlike mine, which is solid. They will also be anodized-black or gold are your only options, :D

Go here to tell me the design you want!!!!!!!!!!!! (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=698548&postcount=43)

Ok, weighed mine as is-24.20 oz's
Mine after drilling-17.70 oz's, :thumb::thumb::thumb:
Stock- TIII 33.25 oz's
Stock 8 valve- 26.65 oz's.


http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/TIII%20stuff/Sonywork273.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/TIII%20engine%20build%20and%20van%20pics/Simonspictures007.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/TIII%20engine%20build%20and%20van%20pics/Simonspictures006.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/TIII%20engine%20build%20and%20van%20pics/Simonspictures005.jpg

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reeves-one black round tooth.
135sohc-one black round tooth.
Shelgame-one black round tooth.
Daver-one black TIII and one black square tooth.
JUGGY-one black round tooth.
Badandy-one black round tooth.
Bakes-one black round tooth..
iTurbo-one black TIII.

Reeves
08-05-2010, 02:13 PM
I'm in for a round tooth.
Drilled all to hell and back!
Anodized Black.

What is the weight of the one in your pic?

What is the washer with keyway for?

turbovanmanČ
08-05-2010, 03:43 PM
I'm in for a round tooth.
Drilled all to hell and back!
Anodized Black.

What is the weight of the one in your pic?

What is the washer with keyway for?

Ok, your down. That washer is for mine, he got the offset wrong, you can see how the bolts hit the back of the gear, then it took out the free play and wiped out my aux shaft and oil pump, :(

I'll weigh mine and post up-see post one for specs.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/TIII%20engine%20build%20and%20van%20pics/workcamera090.jpg

Reeves
08-05-2010, 03:53 PM
I kind of like the gold anodized that you added in your first pic.

Hmmm....

turbovanmanČ
08-05-2010, 04:51 PM
I kind of like the gold anodized that you added in your first pic.

Hmmm....

Same gear, the first pic was brand new, lol.

turbovanmanČ
08-05-2010, 05:42 PM
Added weights Reeves.

contraption22
08-05-2010, 07:16 PM
Is there a benefit other than the reduced weight?

turbovanmanČ
08-05-2010, 07:18 PM
Is there a benefit other than the reduced weight?

For the TIII yes, for others, I guess weight and to say you have one, ;)

GLHNSLHT2
08-05-2010, 07:26 PM
not to rain on your parade but I don't really understand the point for anything but a T3? If you're 8v or Masi just use a Fidanza if you're concerened about weight there right? I know the T3 gears are different but don't you guys use T1 gears there anyway?

ShelGame
08-05-2010, 07:54 PM
Put it on the intermediate shaft, too. Less rotating weight means faster acceleration. Same as lightening the flywheel...

turbovanmanČ
08-05-2010, 07:54 PM
not to rain on your parade but I don't really understand the point for anything but a T3? If you're 8v or Masi just use a Fidanza if you're concerened about weight there right? I know the T3 gears are different but don't you guys use T1 gears there anyway?

No raining, they want them, not me, but the TIII guys do want them and now I can finally have them made.

T1 gears work in a TIII but its not right and the pulley is too skinny.

ShelGame
08-05-2010, 09:27 PM
Put it on the intermediate shaft, too. Less rotating weight means faster acceleration. Same as lightening the flywheel...

turbovanmanČ
08-05-2010, 09:39 PM
Put it on the intermediate shaft, too. Less rotating weight means faster acceleration. Same as lightening the flywheel...

Stuttering? :p

This is for the intermediate shaft or auxillary shaft or oil pump drive shaft, :thumb:

135sohc
08-06-2010, 12:14 AM
I'll take one. Thought about using a fidanza and getting it tack welded so it wouldnt rotate but whats another $125 at this point... :eyebrows: :o

black, round tooth 8v

ShelGame
08-06-2010, 08:12 AM
Stuttering? :p

This is for the intermediate shaft or auxillary shaft or oil pump drive shaft, :thumb:

Right, but it will work on the camshaft, too. I was replying to the guy that asked why you wouldn't just buy a fidanza. Being adjustable, I don't see it being much lighter. Plus you don't need the adjustment on in the intermediate...

Reeves
08-06-2010, 09:00 AM
I tried a Fidanza on the intermediate shaft while my block was on the engine stand. I don't remember exactly what I didn't like about it, but I think it's because you have to run it backwards, so the nuts/bolts hit the intermediate shaft seal housing.

I have thought about contacting Fidanza to see if they would just sell us the outer ring, and then we make our own center section (easier).

Directconnection
08-06-2010, 10:04 AM
Is this the PROPER gear profile for the T-III now? NOT the round tooth profile being used on the T-III. Is the T-III one smaller or 8v diameter?

I seem to recall your one you had made wasn't the exact tooth profile for the T-III....

Reeves
08-06-2010, 10:22 AM
Drill that puppy and then re-weigh.

There should be at LEAST a 1/3 reduction in weight!

turbovanmanČ
08-06-2010, 12:58 PM
Right, but it will work on the camshaft, too. I was replying to the guy that asked why you wouldn't just buy a fidanza. Being adjustable, I don't see it being much lighter. Plus you don't need the adjustment on in the intermediate...

Gotcha, :thumb:


Is this the PROPER gear profile for the T-III now? NOT the round tooth profile being used on the T-III. Is the T-III one smaller or 8v diameter?

I seem to recall your one you had made wasn't the exact tooth profile for the T-III....

It's handmade as he couldn't rent the proper machine and its the CORRECT profile, :clap:


Drill that puppy and then re-weigh.

There should be at LEAST a 1/3 reduction in weight!

Yes sir, :p

ShelGame
08-06-2010, 02:26 PM
It's handmade as he couldn't rent the proper machine and its the CORRECT profile, :clap:


Well in that case, nevermind. Won't work on an 8V on either the cam or intermediate... :(

Guess I'll just have to drill mine to lighten it...

Reeves
08-06-2010, 02:44 PM
Well in that case, nevermind. Won't work on an 8V on either the cam or intermediate... :(

Guess I'll just have to drill mine to lighten it...

He said he's going to be making all 3 cam gears......square, round tooth, and TIII.

Also, I used to have a CNC program to drill the crap out of stockers. They turned out quite a bit lighter. I'll have to see if I can dig up pics.

turbovanmanČ
08-06-2010, 02:55 PM
Well in that case, nevermind. Won't work on an 8V on either the cam or intermediate... :(

Guess I'll just have to drill mine to lighten it...

Did you read the thread title? :confused:

ShelGame
08-06-2010, 03:08 PM
Did you read the thread title? :confused:

Of course not! Silly Canadian, don't you understand about Americans? We don't read anymore...


He said he's going to be making all 3 cam gears......square, round tooth, and TIII.

Also, I used to have a CNC program to drill the crap out of stockers. They turned out quite a bit lighter. I'll have to see if I can dig up pics.

That'd be cool. Care to drill some for me ;)

Reeves
08-06-2010, 03:16 PM
That machinist here at work got "laid off" for pushing the union. Typical American......

ShelGame
08-06-2010, 03:17 PM
Oh well, I have a drill press here at work I can use - usually.

Sorry to hijack, Simon, I'll stop posting in your thread now...

turbovanmanČ
08-06-2010, 04:06 PM
Of course not! Silly Canadian, don't you understand about Americans? We don't read anymore...



Shoulda known, lol.

Directconnection
08-07-2010, 12:26 AM
It's handmade as he couldn't rent the proper machine and its the CORRECT profile, :clap:



Rent the machine????

Anyways, I ask Simon... because I seem to recall you using the 8v round tooth profile on your T-III and just want to make sure that you are not lumping those two *different* tooth profiles together.

If it is INDEED an exact T-III tooth profile.... and I mean IDENTICAL... then I *may* want one. But like you know, I still have 10 bazillion things to purchase beforehand for this build...

turbovanmanČ
08-07-2010, 01:56 AM
Rent the machine????

Anyways, I ask Simon... because I seem to recall you using the 8v round tooth profile on your T-III and just want to make sure that you are not lumping those two *different* tooth profiles together.

If it is INDEED an exact T-III tooth profile.... and I mean IDENTICAL... then I *may* want one. But like you know, I still have 10 bazillion things to purchase beforehand for this build...

Yes, rent but I should have said the machining tools, :o They have the machine and has the catalogue of teeth and could not match ours up, so he hand made it. Take a look at the pic Steve, its a TIII pattern. I used an 8 valve cam sprocket when I first put it together, then had this made.

I wouldn't sell a round/square tooth pattern as a TIII pattern, come on man! ;)

daver
08-07-2010, 10:11 PM
Are the T3 gears being made wider to accomodate the wider T3 belt, or are they all being made the same width?

As long as the T3 belt is centered properly and doesn't extend over the edge of the gear then I'm definitely in for a T3 gear and a SOHC square tooth gear.

Glad to see this topic come back, been watching it for updates for a while.

Thanks!

turbovanmanČ
08-07-2010, 11:38 PM
Are the T3 gears being made wider to accomodate the wider T3 belt, or are they all being made the same width?

As long as the T3 belt is centered properly and doesn't extend over the edge of the gear then I'm definitely in for a T3 gear and a SOHC square tooth gear.

Glad to see this topic come back, been watching it for updates for a while.

Thanks!

If you look at the gold gear, its the right width but the offset is wrong, it will be corrected.

Ok, your down for a pair.

bakes
08-07-2010, 11:44 PM
Simon do you Think he would do a couple of sets of light weight p/s and alt pulleys too ?

turbovanmanČ
08-08-2010, 12:50 AM
Simon do you Think he would do a couple of sets of light weight p/s and alt pulleys too ?

He might, I was going to make alternator pulley's but that kinda got put on the back burner due to him being busy. I am seeing him tomorrow after PAP, we are going to lighten my gear, :thumb:

Reeves
08-08-2010, 08:28 AM
He might, I was going to make alternator pulley's but that kinda got put on the back burner due to him being busy. I am seeing him tomorrow after PAP, we are going to lighten my gear, :thumb:

I'd be down for a aluminum alt. pulley for a Nipp....but I'd like a slightly smaller O.D.

turbovanmanČ
08-09-2010, 10:07 PM
Ok, so he will make the round tooth and TIII gears now, and the square tooth later, black and gold are your only options, aprox 2 weeks, but this is up in the air as the anodizing takes 1 day to a week?

Alt pulley's, no problem, after this stuff is cleared up.

Juggy
08-09-2010, 10:08 PM
I'd be down for a aluminum alt. pulley for a Nipp....but I'd like a slightly smaller O.D.

+1....

nipp is newer smaller style right?

and I got this funky underdrive pulley that doesnt match up....so if that al alt pulley could be pushed out some so I could use this thing, that would be great :)

would also be interested in one of them round tooth aux gears for 8 valve. and +1 on drilling it to snot!! even if its gonna be gundrilled :p

turbovanmanČ
08-09-2010, 10:10 PM
+1....

nipp is newer smaller style right?

and I got this funky underdrive pulley that doesnt match up....so if that al alt pulley could be pushed out some so I could use this thing, that would be great :)

would also be interested in one of them round tooth aux gears for 8 valve. and +1 on drilling it to snot!! even if its gonna be gundrilled :p

Nippo is the small, asian alternator, :p

Not sure about modding it for spacing, maybe use washers?

So are you in for a gear, I have to tell him the total in the next few days and yes, they'll be gun drilled to snot, :lol:

He's drilling mine out tonight and fixing the offset problem and he'll redesign the TIII one so its not so big and clunky looking.

badandy
08-09-2010, 10:25 PM
I'm in for 1 black round tooth 8 valver.

turbovanmanČ
08-09-2010, 10:27 PM
Ok, Juggy's down for a pulley and alt pulley down the road.

badandy
08-09-2010, 10:34 PM
Uhhh, did you miss me?

Do we have any idea what the final product will look like/weigh?

turbovanmanČ
08-09-2010, 10:46 PM
Uhhh, did you miss me?

Do we have any idea what the final product will look like/weigh?

I did, you posted too fast.

He hasn't made me any 8 valve ones but they will be close the same design as the stockers but lighter and aluminium, :thumb:

bakes
08-09-2010, 11:06 PM
I'm in for a black 8v

turbovanmanČ
08-09-2010, 11:23 PM
I'm in for a black 8v

Hehehe, I knew you'd cave, :evil:

turbovanmanČ
08-11-2010, 12:59 AM
Ok, updated with new pics in post 1 and here soooooooooooooooooo what do you guys want? Do you want large holes or triangles or ? Do you want it scalloped and/or similiar to an AEM gear? They will be alot thinner than this, even for the TIII. Do you want these made as light as possible? LMK ASAP!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/TIII%20engine%20build%20and%20van%20pics/Simonspictures007.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/TIII%20engine%20build%20and%20van%20pics/Simonspictures006.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/TIII%20engine%20build%20and%20van%20pics/Simonspictures005.jpg

bakes
08-11-2010, 01:06 AM
How about 4 thin spokes.

badandy
08-11-2010, 08:21 AM
If the round holes mean the gear will stay the same price and the spoked gear will be more than I'll stay with the round holes personally...but I'll go with the majority:thumb:

Reeves
08-11-2010, 09:16 AM
I like the spoke idea....but think 5 or more spokes may be better.
Similar to stock Neon cam gears or DOHC cam gears.

I'm also fine with just holes. Spokes would be lighter though.

I wouldn't be spending the money on this mod if it wasn't for the weight savings, so I'm hoping it's A LOT.

Directconnection
08-11-2010, 11:36 AM
If I get one, weight has nothing to do with it for me... it's the diameter of said pulley as I'm sure aluminum will be lighter anyways... and the larger od spinning less rpm is an advatage over the larger od's rotating losses.

badandy
08-11-2010, 12:16 PM
I wouldn't be spending the money on this mod if it wasn't for the weight savings, so I'm hoping it's A LOT.
What Beavis said....

BadAssPerformance
08-11-2010, 01:40 PM
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/TIII%20engine%20build%20and%20van%20pics/Simonspictures007.jpg


Wow, that thick and it weighs as much as steel... definite diet needed.

Whether circles or spokes, the key to a strong part is to fillet all those sharp cormners, meaning make your final CNC pass with a ball end mill

turbovanmanČ
08-11-2010, 01:46 PM
I like the spoke idea....but think 5 or more spokes may be better.
Similar to stock Neon cam gears or DOHC cam gears.

I'm also fine with just holes. Spokes would be lighter though.

I wouldn't be spending the money on this mod if it wasn't for the weight savings, so I'm hoping it's A LOT.

Ok, I'll see what he says. So 3 for spokes, :p


Wow, that thick and it weighs as much as steel... definite diet needed.

Whether circles or spokes, the key to a strong part is to fillet all those sharp cormners, meaning make your final CNC pass with a ball end mill

Read much? :confused: lol. Solid, its lighter than all the gears and now drilled I'll re-weigh it. Again, this is a, wait for it, wait for it, A PROTOTYPE, :p

BadAssPerformance
08-11-2010, 01:50 PM
Good luck with your protoype. One sprocket at a time, your van will be less than 3000lbs in no time :thumb:

turbovanmanČ
08-11-2010, 02:08 PM
Good luck with your protoype. One sprocket at a time, your van will be less than 3000lbs in no time :thumb:

Well, ahem, it will be gaining weight, I am putting a power drivers seat in, factory side skirts and plastic one piece front and rear bumpers, :o :lol:

But the new head will fix that, :eyebrows:


ADDED the new weight, its now half the weight of a stock TIII gear, :hail: :lol:

Juggy
08-11-2010, 04:49 PM
Wow, that thick and it weighs as much as steel... definite diet needed.

Whether circles or spokes, the key to a strong part is to fillet all those sharp cormners, meaning make your final CNC pass with a ball end mill

its a 2D machining process...so ball or flat end, its going to end up the same radius of the cutter regardless.....best to machine with a flat cutter..

edit: unless your talking about the groove left from th gear tooth to the inside of the pulley? then yes that would def be a good idea :thumb:



I vote for more lightening! looks like there is still tons of meat to machine on the backside of the pulley, doubt we need anything more then a 1/4" thick to hold things.

Juggy
08-11-2010, 04:55 PM
If I get one, weight has nothing to do with it for me... it's the diameter of said pulley as I'm sure aluminum will be lighter anyways... and the larger od spinning less rpm is an advatage over the larger od's rotating losses.

it better be the same diameter as stock....or my timing is going to be FUUUCKED UP :mad:

turbovanmanČ
08-11-2010, 05:37 PM
it better be the same diameter as stock....or my timing is going to be FUUUCKED UP :mad:

Steve has a TIII, :p and yes, same as stock.

Juggy
08-23-2010, 09:20 PM
bump....any updates on more lightening??

ps just need the 1 for myself, other local isnt interested at this time....

turbovanmanČ
08-23-2010, 09:28 PM
He's going to make them like the DOHC sprockets, thin spokes.

Juggy
08-23-2010, 11:02 PM
He's going to make them like the DOHC sprockets, thin spokes.

sounds good! are u going with 5 or 6 spokes???

going to machine any meat off of the backside??

turbovanmanČ
08-23-2010, 11:30 PM
sounds good! are u going with 5 or 6 spokes???

going to machine any meat off of the backside??

Not sure if there will be much meat left to machine off, don't forget, the pics are a TIII gear, much thicker than an 8 valve gear.

5 spoke I believe.

badandy
08-24-2010, 06:49 PM
Looking forward to these:thumb:

135sohc
09-08-2010, 03:25 AM
Any update on these ?

turbovanmanČ
09-08-2010, 01:33 PM
I'll find out today, or email him, I've been too busy with the van.

ShelGame
09-15-2010, 11:44 AM
What's the good news? :eyebrows:

iTurbo
09-21-2010, 09:49 AM
Would these work on TIII with the idler relocate mod? Does any clearancing have to be done to the seal housing to make the larger sprocket fit?

turbovanmanČ
09-21-2010, 12:19 PM
What's the good news? :eyebrows:

I'll try him again, :mad:


Would these work on TIII with the idler relocate mod? Does any clearancing have to be done to the seal housing to make the larger sprocket fit?

They bolt right on to the TIII with no machining needed except you have to remove the idler at the PS pump. No, the Jackson mod won't work, I tried to make it work when I put my engine together but the belt simply isn't long enough. I've looked at the belt free revving and it doesn't flap around like the stock setup does.

iTurbo
09-22-2010, 12:06 AM
Ok put me down for one of the TIII I-shaft sprockets. What kind of timeframe are we looking at?

turbovanmanČ
09-22-2010, 01:31 AM
Ok put me down for one of the TIII I-shaft sprockets. What kind of timeframe are we looking at?

Not sure, I can't get ahold of him, hopefully very soon.

Juggy
09-22-2010, 03:10 AM
thought they were suppose to be ready a couple weeks ago? but its all good because i dont quite have the funds to buy mine yet :thumb:
lol

turbovanmanČ
09-29-2010, 07:29 PM
thought they were suppose to be ready a couple weeks ago? but its all good because i dont quite have the funds to buy mine yet :thumb:
lol

I said turn around time unknown but it could be a few weeks but this guy can take longer. They will be done, hopefully sooner rather than later. I just called him at work and he already left and called his cel and left a message.

DOHCRT
10-27-2010, 08:31 PM
I haven't seen a recent update, are you still taking orders? I would like a gold TIII. You say the idler mod won't work? but you remove the idler all together? This is good no? Lighter pulley and removing the heavy idler; I'm in!! Is it 8v size or 16v size? Bonus if its larger in diameter too...

Vic in Phoenix
dohcrt@cox.net
92 Spirit R/T
89 CSX
88 CSX-T TIII
87 CSX
87 Shelby Lancer
84 Rampage TII
97 Ram Diesel
69 Dart GT 'Vert

turbovanmanČ
02-01-2011, 01:25 AM
I haven't seen a recent update, are you still taking orders? I would like a gold TIII. You say the idler mod won't work? but you remove the idler all together? This is good no? Lighter pulley and removing the heavy idler; I'm in!! Is it 8v size or 16v size? Bonus if its larger in diameter too...

Vic in Phoenix
dohcrt@cox.net
92 Spirit R/T
89 CSX
88 CSX-T TIII
87 CSX
87 Shelby Lancer
84 Rampage TII
97 Ram Diesel
69 Dart GT 'Vert

Sorry, didn't see you post but no biggie, he screwed me again, some shitt hit the fan and they can no longer do stuff like this after hours. He mentioned maybe in the future but I wouldn't hold my breath. Sorry guys. :(

This is what it looks like on my van-

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/TIII%20engine%20build%20and%20van%20pics/DSC02253.jpg

Reeves
02-01-2011, 12:57 PM
Sorry, didn't see you post but no biggie, he screwed me again, some shitt hit the fan and they can no longer do stuff like this after hours. He mentioned maybe in the future but I wouldn't hold my breath. Sorry guys. :(

:banghead:

Guess I should have kept on working with my dude.

Juggy
02-01-2011, 01:01 PM
Sorry, didn't see you post but no biggie, he screwed me again, some shitt hit the fan and they can no longer do stuff like this after hours. He mentioned maybe in the future but I wouldn't hold my breath. Sorry guys. :(

damn you simon and your turbo mopar head games :p

DOHCRT
02-01-2011, 01:46 PM
Is this design in a CAD model we can ship off to a CNC facility to get mfg, or one of the guys on here with that capability may want to pick it up...

turbovanmanČ
02-01-2011, 03:41 PM
Is this design in a CAD model we can ship off to a CNC facility to get mfg, or one of the guys on here with that capability may want to pick it up...

He had to custom design it and made his own teeth cutter for the TIII, he has access to every gear pattern on the planet and couldn't match up the TIII, so he made his own. The round tooth is commercially available. I'll keep on him, he said give him some time, so I'll bug him in a few weeks.

"Top Fuel" Bender
02-01-2011, 08:11 PM
Hey if you want and we can get a group buy together I'd be happy to help out
Work is really really slow

iTurbo
02-01-2011, 11:38 PM
I would still buy one.

DOHCRT
02-02-2011, 01:10 AM
So what does everyone think about this vs the re-located idler mod? I know this slows down the oil pump, but it really doesn't address the belt harmonics on the front side of the engine. Could you run the idler mod and maybe a re-located tensioner pulley?

iTurbo
02-02-2011, 01:22 AM
I bought a couple TIII A/C brackets from Jackson that he modified for the relocated idler mod and I plan to use those for my Spirit R/Ts, but I'm wanting this I-shaft sprocket for my TIII Omni. It will be running a modified 8v belt setup, so the relocated idler mod won't work (no mounting provision).

I also would really like it if this custom I-shaft sprocket (if it ever materializes) is the same diameter as the 8v sprocket. That way, just in case my modified A525 ends up not working for whatever reason with the TIII crank position sensor, I can instead run a distributor in stock location. That might require a custom manifold, but if I gotta do it, I gotta do it. Of course, I also like the idea that it spins the oil pump at regular 8v speed.

turbovanmanČ
02-02-2011, 01:57 AM
So what does everyone think about this vs the re-located idler mod? I know this slows down the oil pump, but it really doesn't address the belt harmonics on the front side of the engine. Could you run the idler mod and maybe a re-located tensioner pulley?

I tried to add the idler, the belt simply isn't long enough and I"ve tried a ton of belts but can't find one that works. I notice harmonics on the stock setup but none this way, and I don't have issues with gear wear or int shaft bearing problems. I guess it's a 50/50 split on which way to go.


I bought a couple TIII A/C brackets from Jackson that he modified for the relocated idler mod and I plan to use those for my Spirit R/Ts, but I'm wanting this I-shaft sprocket for my TIII Omni. It will be running a modified 8v belt setup, so the relocated idler mod won't work (no mounting provision).

I also would really like it if this custom I-shaft sprocket (if it ever materializes) is the same diameter as the 8v sprocket. That way, just in case my modified A525 ends up not working for whatever reason with the TIII crank position sensor, I can instead run a distributor in stock location. That might require a custom manifold, but if I gotta do it, I gotta do it. Of course, I also like the idea that it spins the oil pump at regular 8v speed.

You can always run the dizzy off the cam. :nod:

iTurbo
02-02-2011, 02:17 AM
I tried to add the idler, the belt simply isn't long enough and I"ve tried a ton of belts but can't find one that works. I notice harmonics on the stock setup but none this way, and I don't have issues with gear wear or int shaft bearing problems. I guess it's a 50/50 split on which way to go.

You can always run the dizzy off the cam. :nod:

Yeah, if it comes to that I may do it. Really want to try and get this project off the ground using TIII electronics though.

Plan A: A525 w/TIII crank sensor and TIII SBEC electronics
Plan B: distributor in stock location and custom intake manifold and custom SMEC cal
Plan C: cam driven distributor and custom SMEC cal
Plan D: crank sensor relocation kit (already have). This would mean I lose power steering (yuck!) but I do already have all the parts to do it. This would allow TIII SBEC though.

turbovanmanČ
02-02-2011, 02:47 AM
I did the intake mod but to service the dizzy, the intake has to come off, not exactly roadside repair friendly, :banghead:

Reeves
02-02-2011, 09:45 AM
Hey if you want and we can get a group buy together I'd be happy to help out
Work is really really slow

I'm in! PM'd.

Juggy
02-02-2011, 10:58 AM
simon is that an 8v gear on your setup?? and this is why u cant use the idler?? because the sprockets bigger??
and theres no room to relocate the idler to minimize belt deflection due to the size of the sprocket?

I have a custom bracket for the alternator. a/c deleted. I wonder if I have enuff room to get an ilder on there *and* use the 8v gear. the fidanza adjsutable cam sprocket is the same size as the I gear right? hmmmm maybe ill have to try and mock something up :D

turbovanmanČ
02-02-2011, 03:03 PM
Ok, found another guy, just finished talking to him and sent him pics, I am going to see him on Sat and go from there.



simon is that an 8v gear on your setup?? and this is why u cant use the idler?? because the sprockets bigger??
and theres no room to relocate the idler to minimize belt deflection due to the size of the sprocket?

I have a custom bracket for the alternator. a/c deleted. I wonder if I have enuff room to get an ilder on there *and* use the 8v gear. the fidanza adjsutable cam sprocket is the same size as the I gear right? hmmmm maybe ill have to try and mock something up :D

Its 8 valve size, but as wide as the TIII belt and TIII tooth pattern and for that reason, you can't add the idler as the belt is now too short.

Reaper1
02-02-2011, 07:21 PM
Depending on where this goes I might be down for a black 8V square one. Price and time will tell if I can actually do it.

"Top Fuel" Bender
02-02-2011, 07:32 PM
Ok, found another guy, just finished talking to him and sent him pics, I am going to see him on Sat and go from there.
.

giving up on me already? didn't even get a qoute back on material

Reeves
02-02-2011, 07:58 PM
giving up on me already? didn't even get a qoute back on material

LOL......dang!

turbovanmanČ
02-03-2011, 02:33 AM
giving up on me already? didn't even get a qoute back on material

Sorry, didn't hear from you and I bumped into a guy today, so get back to me, :p

Juggy
02-03-2011, 03:53 PM
im in for a TIII one

tryingbe
02-03-2011, 10:01 PM
Am I missing something here?

Stock 8V cam gear is the same as the intermediate gear.

My is Fidanza adjustable round tooth cam gear is 13.4 oz, cost $99 from the vendors. Why can't the Fidanza be adjusted to 0 degree and be used for the intermediate shaft gear?

Reaper1
02-04-2011, 12:02 AM
Am I missing something here?

Stock 8V cam gear is the same as the intermediate gear.

My is Fidanza adjustable round tooth cam gear is 13.4 oz, cost $99 from the vendors. Why can't the Fidanza be adjusted to 0 degree and be used for the intermediate shaft gear?

This is mostly for the TIII guys who want to convert to the larger pulley to help with their belt issues, i-shaft issues, and such. The thing is that their pulley is WIDER than the 8V and the tooth pattern isn't the same, so using the 8V Fidanza isn't a good option for them.

Those of us with the 8V engines that want one aren't really interested in using another Fidanza on the I-shaft drive as it adds another variable in the timing (I personally don't want to mess with that). That is MY main reason. Maybe others have theirs. I'm sure that these pulleys can be made MUCH lighter than what Simon's prototype was just that. It doesn't HAVE to be that thick, and it can be made MUCH lighter. However, I'm sure that due to production costs due to machining time, they will probably be sold similar to what you see. Personally I'd have it chucked in a lathe and turn it down on the back side to reduce the CSA in the hub by quite a bit. That alone will bring it VERY close to what the Fidanza weighs.

tryingbe
02-04-2011, 12:39 AM
Those of us with the 8V engines that want one aren't really interested in using another Fidanza on the I-shaft drive as it adds another variable in the timing (I personally don't want to mess with that). That is MY main reason.

But you just adjust it to zero and lock it down on the gear. The timing isn't going to change on the gear unless it wasn't bolted down correctly. Plus, you're going to use the timing gun to adjust the timing to 12 degree by turning the distributor anyways... for the 8V at least. I see no reason not to use the fidanza.

Reaper1
02-04-2011, 09:22 AM
But you just adjust it to zero and lock it down on the gear. The timing isn't going to change on the gear unless it wasn't bolted down correctly. Plus, you're going to use the timing gun to adjust the timing to 12 degree by turning the distributor anyways... for the 8V at least. I see no reason not to use the fidanza.

I understand what you are saying and I know of a few people that have done this with success. However in my eyes it adds another level of unneeded complexity and another failure point. Two things that you want to eliminate from ANY design (except a Rube Goldberg machine).

I'm not saying using the Fidanza on the 8V doesn't work, as that is completely false. I just want to utilize the KISS method on this particular part! :)

Reeves
02-04-2011, 10:04 AM
Am I missing something here?

Stock 8V cam gear is the same as the intermediate gear.

My is Fidanza adjustable round tooth cam gear is 13.4 oz, cost $99 from the vendors. Why can't the Fidanza be adjusted to 0 degree and be used for the intermediate shaft gear?

It doesn't fit.

turbovanmanČ
02-04-2011, 02:13 PM
But you just adjust it to zero and lock it down on the gear. The timing isn't going to change on the gear unless it wasn't bolted down correctly. Plus, you're going to use the timing gun to adjust the timing to 12 degree by turning the distributor anyways... for the 8V at least. I see no reason not to use the fidanza.

And they want it as light as possible. Reaper explained the TIII gear.

daver
04-16-2011, 05:14 PM
Any update on this? turbovanman? Bender?

"Top Fuel" Bender
04-16-2011, 05:21 PM
Any update on this? turbovanman? Bender?

He was having a local guy working on it , not me anymore

Juggy
04-16-2011, 06:22 PM
He was having a local guy working on it , not me anymore

i think you should get started on these...........i have a feeling we will see them quicker.

iTurbo
04-17-2011, 05:21 PM
Yes somebody please. Would likely buy a couple at least..

Spycker
04-18-2011, 12:47 PM
+1 id like one as well

Reeves
04-18-2011, 03:19 PM
+1 or more.

bakes
04-18-2011, 06:14 PM
me too

turbovanmanČ
04-19-2011, 02:55 AM
I never said I was getting someone else, I said I was looking at options, my new guy doesn't seem interested, Bender was supposed to get a quote but didn't so if anyone wants to step up, I am pretty well out of options. I'll try my head porter guy, he seems to have connections so maybe? I'll check tomorrow.

Shadow
04-19-2011, 10:15 AM
Me too!

turbovanmanČ
04-20-2011, 08:21 PM
Well, got another lead, gave him a few sprockets too look at, will know in a few days. Fingers crossed.

Juggy
04-30-2011, 09:50 AM
bump from the dead..


I never said I was getting someone else, I said I was looking at options, my new guy doesn't seem interested, Bender was supposed to get a quote but didn't so if anyone wants to step up, I am pretty well out of options. I'll try my head porter guy, he seems to have connections so maybe? I'll check tomorrow.

bender tried to step in and you said you got a new guy.....here are the older posts.....



Hey if you want and we can get a group buy together I'd be happy to help out
Work is really really slow


Ok, found another guy, just finished talking to him and sent him pics, I am going to see him on Sat and go from there.




Its 8 valve size, but as wide as the TIII belt and TIII tooth pattern and for that reason, you can't add the idler as the belt is now too short.


giving up on me already? didn't even get a qoute back on material


Sorry, didn't hear from you and I bumped into a guy today, so get back to me, :p



bruce u wanna get this started?!

"Top Fuel" Bender
04-30-2011, 10:07 AM
bump from the dead..



bender tried to step in and you said you got a new guy.....here are the older posts.....












bruce u wanna get this started?!

Exactly !!
I would but the 4th axis is tied up for a few months right now
that's a lot turns on the spindex and wouldn't be cheap to stand there and crank it manually all day

bakes
04-30-2011, 02:09 PM
How about making some light wieght Alu. P/S and alt pulleys in the mean time????:p

Reeves
05-02-2011, 10:45 AM
I wouldn't mind having custom aluminum alternator pulleys. I'd like a smaller one.

contraption22
05-02-2011, 10:57 AM
I wouldn't mind having custom aluminum alternator pulleys. I'd like a smaller one.

Are you using a ND alt?

Reeves
05-02-2011, 11:09 AM
Are you using a ND alt?

Yes..

bakes
05-02-2011, 11:23 AM
You be surprised how heavy the stock alt pulleys are.

Juggy
05-02-2011, 12:03 PM
I wouldn't mind having custom aluminum alternator pulleys. I'd like a smaller one.

+1 for the underdrive pulley. bring back stock charge.

Reaper1
05-02-2011, 02:56 PM
I wouldn't mind having custom aluminum alternator pulleys. I'd like a smaller one.


+1 for the underdrive pulley. bring back stock charge.

^^ I'm with these two guys! :thumb:

turbovanmanČ
05-02-2011, 06:25 PM
Still looking, 3 shops said no, one shop he is seeing in a few days. Price might go up to $150 though. I'll talk with him about alternator pulley's, etc.

It would most likely have to be a group buy, so I'll update accordingly.

Juggy
05-02-2011, 07:54 PM
but i think its best if we went with bender. he's been very patient about it. and you only seem to try and get interested going again after I pointed out you stepped on his toes when he tried to step in.
with bender running CNC machines, we can "eliminate the middle man" (where have I heard that b4 lolz) by going directly to the source!!!

no offence to you simon. im just a cheap ars that wants to get everything for free hehe. but really. its been like 5 months and youve prolly had 5-6 people shoot this down at least. not like i could even afford to purchase one right now without having to sell something first!! lmao

turbovanmanČ
05-02-2011, 08:07 PM
Juggy, no offence but I started this and I've been chasing this for along time. I've invested alot of time and energy so if you can do better, go for it. As for stepping on toes, I asked Bender and I also kept looking at the same time, I still heard nothing back from Bruce from how long ago? I must have asked a 100 machine shops and this thread does remind me but search but I don't stop looking.

I have the TIII tooth jig but just need someone to use it, :(

Also, getting people to commit is like pulling teeth, machinists like to do more than 2 or 3, so far, maybe 10 have piped up, and of course, not 10 the same. :p

Reeves
05-02-2011, 09:10 PM
Others have started this before you Simon, but we thought you had a good lead already......so we were waiting.

daver
05-07-2011, 02:09 AM
Ok guys, spoke to Fidanza today. Not trying to take any of Frank's thunder, but figured since they specifically make a full line of cam-gears including ones for our vehicles it would make sense to check with them as an option.

So anyway the engineer/tech I spoke to said we would need around 30 as a minimum for any consideration for each of the 3 projects being discussed here. The easiest and most likely thing they would do for the SOHC gears would be to simply remove the slots from the adjustable gear, so it would basically be a non-adjustable version of their adjustable gear (so still a 2 piece bolt together design), with just the one timing/alignment mark. Cost would be similar to what the adjustable gears go for so should be in the 90-100$ range.

For a T3 SOHC-diameter I-shaft gear we would again need at least a 30 piece minimum, I would need to send them a stock T3 I-shaft gear, and we would go from there. It's very likely that this gear would be made in a similar 2 piece design, just with straight holes to bolt together instead of the adjustable slots.

So again this is all an option. If there is enough interest to move forward I personally would be in for one of each gear, and can either pull the stock I-shaft gear from my T3 or if anybody has a spare they would be willing to sell me or lend directly to Fidanza.

Juggy
05-07-2011, 03:15 AM
Ok guys, spoke to Fidanza today. Not trying to take any of Frank's thunder, but figured since they specifically make a full line of cam-gears including ones for our vehicles it would make sense to check with them as an option.

So anyway the engineer/tech I spoke to said we would need around 30 as a minimum for any consideration for each of the 3 projects being discussed here. The easiest and most likely thing they would do for the SOHC gears would be to simply remove the slots from the adjustable gear, so it would basically be a non-adjustable version of their adjustable gear (so still a 2 piece bolt together design), with just the one timing/alignment mark. Cost would be similar to what the adjustable gears go for so should be in the 90-100$ range.

For a T3 SOHC-diameter I-shaft gear we would again need at least a 30 piece minimum, I would need to send them a stock T3 I-shaft gear, and we would go from there. It's very likely that this gear would be made in a similar 2 piece design, just with straight holes to bolt together instead of the adjustable slots.

So again this is all an option. If there is enough interest to move forward I personally would be in for one of each gear, and can either pull the stock I-shaft gear from my T3 or if anybody has a spare they would be willing to sell me or lend directly to Fidanza.

it was very nice of you to contact fidanza. but I dont really think you will ever find 30 people who are interested in getting this started. especially trying to get 30 TIII ones sold.
I dont really feel the need to get an 8v pulley done either, because the cam/intermediate sprocket are the same, just reversed. flip a fidanza cam gear and u can use it on the I shaft....

135sohc
05-07-2011, 09:30 AM
flip a fidanza cam gear and u can use it on the I shaft....


Thought someone said it rubs on the seal housing ?

turbovanmanČ
05-08-2011, 03:18 PM
Others have started this before you Simon, but we thought you had a good lead already......so we were waiting.

No one has done the TIII gear before, :p

I've been around since 2003, no one has ever tried to do these gears on TD or TM. If someone else has on another forum or site, then awesome, but I guess they couldn't get it done either, :(

Either way, it looks like TFB can do them in a few more months or maybe my other leads will work out. I have the pulleys and belts being looked at now, looks promising, ack.!




Ok guys, spoke to Fidanza today. Not trying to take any of Frank's thunder, but figured since they specifically make a full line of cam-gears including ones for our vehicles it would make sense to check with them as an option.

So anyway the engineer/tech I spoke to said we would need around 30 as a minimum for any consideration for each of the 3 projects being discussed here. The easiest and most likely thing they would do for the SOHC gears would be to simply remove the slots from the adjustable gear, so it would basically be a non-adjustable version of their adjustable gear (so still a 2 piece bolt together design), with just the one timing/alignment mark. Cost would be similar to what the adjustable gears go for so should be in the 90-100$ range.

For a T3 SOHC-diameter I-shaft gear we would again need at least a 30 piece minimum, I would need to send them a stock T3 I-shaft gear, and we would go from there. It's very likely that this gear would be made in a similar 2 piece design, just with straight holes to bolt together instead of the adjustable slots.

So again this is all an option. If there is enough interest to move forward I personally would be in for one of each gear, and can either pull the stock I-shaft gear from my T3 or if anybody has a spare they would be willing to sell me or lend directly to Fidanza.

Bummer, :(


it was very nice of you to contact fidanza. but I dont really think you will ever find 30 people who are interested in getting this started. especially trying to get 30 TIII ones sold.
I dont really feel the need to get an 8v pulley done either, because the cam/intermediate sprocket are the same, just reversed. flip a fidanza cam gear and u can use it on the I shaft....

The whole point of this is to save weight, the adjustable gear is heavier than the stocker so that's pointless putting it on the auxillary shaft, plus doesn't solve the larger TIII gear. :(

bakes
05-08-2011, 03:42 PM
Simon the SOHC ajustable is half the wieght of a stocker Don and I weighed it last week. But of cousre we want the inter. gear as light as possible!!!!

iTurbo
05-08-2011, 10:26 PM
OK been thinking more about these things lately and if they were ACTUALLY made, I may buy 3-4 of them (TIII) if the price is right.

Simon, looking at the pic of the frontside of your motor in post #71, it looks like you just delete the timing belt idler pulley to make 'room' for the larger I-shaft sprocket. Do you have a pic of how you modified the engine bracket and mounting bolt so the timing belt doesn't hit the bolt head?

Also, given that these would be the same outer diameter as the 8v sprocket, does that mean it would enable running a TIII motor with 8v electronics and a distributor in stock location if intake manifold clearance is also addressed?

Juggy
05-09-2011, 08:22 AM
simon isnt the t3 pulley smaller? i thought u put an 8v sized one on??
so the fidanza weighs more then a stock t3 I shaft pulley???
i wouldnt be worried if it was a lil heavier. the gear is bigger, and will slow down the oil pump

iTurbo, yes if the I shaft was 8 v size then you could use the 8v distributor and run like that (if u had intake clearance with a custom manny)

daver
05-09-2011, 11:24 PM
The adjustable SOHC Fidanza gear is definitely lighter than the stock steel gear. If A 1-piece aluminum gear could be a little lighter than if Fidanza made non-adjustable versions which were still a 2 piece design just without slots, but we'd be talking about basically the weight of a few small screws.

I haven't worked on a SOHC car in a while, I know the cam gear and the I-shaft gear are the same, but is the gear installed inverted in the I-shaft location? Or is it installed the same orientation as the cam gear?

Has anyone run an adjustable Fidanza cam gear on their I-shaft? Can someone confirm any clearance issues?

I would likely purchase one of each round tooth and square tooth I-shaft gears if they were made available at a reasonable cost, however I am personally much more interested in getting a SOHC-diameter I shaft gear made for the T3.

Would slow down the I-shaft rotation reducing stress on the oil pump gears, I-shaft bearings, would allow use of a SOHC distributor in SOHC location if desired, and eliminate the expensive and possibly NS1 T3 idler.

135sohc
05-09-2011, 11:34 PM
Idler and tensioner pulleys for the T3 have been remedied by FWD-P and others.

Reaper1
05-10-2011, 12:02 AM
I can tell you for a fact that the Fidanza 8V adjustable gear has been used as an I-shaft gear. Cindy has done it to at LEAST one of her own personal cars. That came from the horse's mouth, so it CAN be done. I don't know about the spacing issue, however...

135sohc
05-10-2011, 12:42 AM
This got me interested enough to run out to the garage and pull some junk out to mock it up.. In stock form simply flipping the adjustable cam gear around will cause rubbing issues.

Juggy
05-10-2011, 08:04 AM
where does it rub? ive been to lazy to check this lol

checking it out, i can see 3 different ways to modify this thing to work if the part that hits are the screws.....

Reeves
05-10-2011, 08:31 AM
This got me interested enough to run out to the garage and pull some junk out to mock it up.. In stock form simply flipping the adjustable cam gear around will cause rubbing issues.

x2
....

---------- Post added at 08:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 AM ----------


I tried a Fidanza on the intermediate shaft while my block was on the engine stand. I don't remember exactly what I didn't like about it, but I think it's because you have to run it backwards, so the nuts/bolts hit the intermediate shaft seal housing.

I have thought about contacting Fidanza to see if they would just sell us the outer ring, and then we make our own center section (easier).


Am I missing something here?

Stock 8V cam gear is the same as the intermediate gear.

My is Fidanza adjustable round tooth cam gear is 13.4 oz, cost $99 from the vendors. Why can't the Fidanza be adjusted to 0 degree and be used for the intermediate shaft gear?


It doesn't fit.

See above from THIS thread.

daver
05-10-2011, 07:47 PM
Fidanza will make what we need if we get enough people. So if the adustable design as is won't flip and clear then they would modify the design to make it fit.

Not saying we have to go with Fidanza, but lining up a manufacturer seems to be the issue here and Fidanza makes these kinds of things as their business, not a side project or trying to fit it in between real jobs etc. Also I can't imagine that most other manufactures are going to want to produce these at a reasonable cost at numbers less than what Fidanza asked for.. (30 piece minimum)

As for the T3, FWDPerformance has new manufacture, rebuildable tensioners, however they only have a limited number of NOS idlers available. From their site:

Genuine Mopar factory piece. No longer available (NS1), limited quantities, only a few left. When they are gone, they are gone! Price: $129.00

If we can buy a $100 I-shaft gear, save weight, help with the I-shaft gear and bearing issues, and eliminate a $130 wearable part that sounds like a good deal to me.

turbovanmanČ
05-10-2011, 08:32 PM
Simon the SOHC ajustable is half the wieght of a stocker Don and I weighed it last week. But of cousre we want the inter. gear as light as possible!!!!

My bad, and noted.


OK been thinking more about these things lately and if they were ACTUALLY made, I may buy 3-4 of them (TIII) if the price is right.

Simon, looking at the pic of the frontside of your motor in post #71, it looks like you just delete the timing belt idler pulley to make 'room' for the larger I-shaft sprocket. Do you have a pic of how you modified the engine bracket and mounting bolt so the timing belt doesn't hit the bolt head?

Also, given that these would be the same outer diameter as the 8v sprocket, does that mean it would enable running a TIII motor with 8v electronics and a distributor in stock location if intake manifold clearance is also addressed?

The idler is simply deleted and you put a countersunk bolt in its place. That's it.

If you remember I ran the dizzy with my TIII up front but then moved it, I didn't like the no access part as no matter what intake you use, you will have to remove it to do the cap, rotor, wires or HEP.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/TIII%20engine%20build%20and%20van%20pics/Canoncamerapics047.jpg



I would likely purchase one of each round tooth and square tooth I-shaft gears if they were made available at a reasonable cost, however I am personally much more interested in getting a SOHC-diameter I shaft gear made for the T3.

Would slow down the I-shaft rotation reducing stress on the oil pump gears, I-shaft bearings, would allow use of a SOHC distributor in SOHC location if desired, and eliminate the expensive and possibly NS1 T3 idler.

See above and I also sell an OEM type idler. The vendor section is kind off a mess so its hard to find stuff.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?47317-New-idler-gears-for-the-TIII.-60-plus-shipping

As for the gears, it does look good on my end, I got him a square tooth belt today and I'll now this week if he can do it, if he can't, then its up to TFB.

eski
05-11-2011, 04:36 PM
If we can buy a $100 I-shaft gear, save weight, help with the I-shaft gear and bearing issues, and eliminate a $130 wearable part that sounds like a good deal to me.

OT!
I moved idler to front and used neon sohc idler. Cheap as hell. This idler comes with bolt and I did make threads to A/C bracket.