Pat's GRM ScAries! [Archive] - Page 2

Vigo

10-06-2010, 09:50 PM

By technical, do you mean slow?

Kidding aside, it was a fun course...very fast with a few tight turns, a few tight spots and a really long sweeper with a hard kink in the middle of it. I don't think it was any less technical than a slow, tight course. It was larger, but you were going a hell of a lot faster when you had to hit your marks and it put much more of an emphasis on having good brakes. I liked it.

I see it gave people a lot of chances to get going too fast.. which takes skill to resist i would say.

Seemed like pretty much everyone was running out of gear and just coasting at the end of the 1st slalom. Also, NOBODY made it around that first cone to enter the slalom very well, from what i saw. Kinda like the first 50 feet was just pointless. I think there was a lot of time to be made or lost by how late and how hard people were braking at the end of the long sweeper.

Im not saying it was bad, just looking for feedback which i got. :)

Pat

10-06-2010, 10:21 PM

I see it gave people a lot of chances to get going too fast.. which takes skill to resist i would say.

Seemed like pretty much everyone was running out of gear and just coasting at the end of the 1st slalom. Also, NOBODY made it around that first cone to enter the slalom very well, from what i saw. Kinda like the first 50 feet was just pointless. I think there was a lot of time to be made or lost by how late and how hard people were braking at the end of the long sweeper.

Im not saying it was bad, just looking for feedback which i got. :)

You're right on all counts...the first corner was tough, braking points were critical. If you want to see what not to do, watch my fun runs! LOL!

I was making a bit of a joke b/c I heard a few complaints while I was down there that it was too fast of a course.

But, all in all, it was a very fun course. I haven't done too many, but it was the most fun course I've ever run.

PunKid

10-08-2010, 11:17 AM

Got a link to a build thread/site for the jeep?

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/2010-race-jeep-cherokee-build/27247/page1/

Pat

10-21-2010, 03:18 PM

Pulled the head last night to get a look at the hung up valve. It was stuck in the guide...as were the other three. We had to use an old valve to pound the stuck valve out of the guide from the top. All four exhaust valves and guides are severely galled and need to be replaced.

So much for having the head gone through before GRM to make sure it was reliable. Apparently, they forgot to hone/ream to set the clearance for the new guides that went in.

Crap.

Reeves

10-21-2010, 03:42 PM

Pat

10-21-2010, 04:42 PM

Free fix then?

Working on that now. Labor yes, but I want them to cover parts, which I'm still working on with them.

turbovanman²

10-21-2010, 04:54 PM

Love the 2nd drag racing vid, the announcer goes, "here is a Chrysler Aries, or Dodge Dynasty, or some other piece of crap K car they managed to build" :confused: :lol:

Road course looked fun. How do you guys figure out where to go, I'd miss half the track, lol.

Pulled the head last night to get a look at the hung up valve. It was stuck in the guide...as were the other three. We had to use an old valve to pound the stuck valve out of the guide from the top. All four exhaust valves and guides are severely galled and need to be replaced.

So much for having the head gone through before GRM to make sure it was reliable. Apparently, they forgot to hone/ream to set the clearance for the new guides that went in.

Crap.

Should be 100% free, my machine shop would have covered that if they messed up.

mpboost

01-11-2011, 03:02 PM

Pat

01-11-2011, 03:51 PM

Hey Pat!

Congrats on your 4th place finish.

I know this is an old thread, but I am just glad to see my old car ended up in good hands. I really wish I could have given the car the proper attention it needed and finished it up properly before I sold it to Greg, but ultimately I would have never been able to take it as far as you have!

You did an awesome job, and I really enjoyed looking through all the pictures and updates.

Thanks! Yes, I bought it from Greg. He briefly drove it, but it popped a freeze plug out of block at some point and he gave up on it. I picked it up from he, crossed my fingers that the block wasn't cracked and started messing with it from there. It's been a fun car. I have the head back from the machine shop. I just need to reassemble before the spring. I'm looking forward to playing with it a bit more this year.

Thanks for the note!

Pat

01-30-2011, 07:21 PM

I couldn't bring myself to put it back together the way it was....mock up head is on to figure out a TBI header and big plenum intake.

I bought an upper 2 pc flange, and made the plenum out of a 4" diameter aluminum driveshaft Dave managed to scavenge and some pieces of the box truck door I used to make the end tanks for the triple core intercooler that I ran in the Shadow at it's last GRM outing. So far, it's coming out pretty good, particularly since I weld aluminum with a spool gun/MIG.

28497284982849928500

ShadowFromHell

01-31-2011, 12:56 AM

Vigo

01-31-2011, 01:56 AM

and made the plenum out of a 4" diameter aluminum driveshaft

Damn, you're even on to my driveshaft shop intake manifold! I swear every time i have an idea for my aries i should just check out your thread to see how well it works. Eesh.

Of course mine's on a low-brow 1pc lower half. :p

My cut up tbi manifold and chrysler t3 flange have been sitting right next to each other un-welded for months now. I am so productive! ;)

Pat

01-31-2011, 08:08 AM

Are you going to be able to remove the injectors in that? Looks a little close! I am looking forward to your threads on the intake and TBI mani, you always seem to find cheap ways to do top notch work! I am really curious how you are going to weld the flange to the TBI header, as I really want to build one :)

It's going to be cozy, but I should be able to get them out. Still working on final fitment. Worst case scenario is that I unbolt the upper plenum, which with a TBI header, I will be able to reach with the manifold on the car.

Plan is to heat the cast TBI manifold and MIG the crap out of it.

Damn, you're even on to my driveshaft shop intake manifold! I swear every time i have an idea for my aries i should just check out your thread to see how well it works. Eesh.

Of course mine's on a low-brow 1pc lower half. :p

My cut up tbi manifold and chrysler t3 flange have been sitting right next to each other un-welded for months now. I am so productive! ;)

What are you waiting for? :-)

2.216VTurbo

01-31-2011, 10:11 AM

Reeves

01-31-2011, 10:12 AM

Pat

01-31-2011, 10:45 AM

Dunno Pat, I've watched some flow testing on large plenum round manifolds, they all flow better but usually they sacrifice balance for it. One a couple years ago for a 16V motor flowed 32CFM out the end hole than the one next to it:(. If the tune is anywher near the edge on AF, that cylinder would have to lean out. We had a discussion about the runner or the port becoming the bottleneck and 'evening' out the flow but that was pretty speculative compared to the real numbers the bench generated. No, we didn't have the fixtures to flow the whole intake/head together but that would have been nice:o Not passing judgement on your fine fab skilz, just adding some counterpoint;)

I've given that some thought too, but after cutting up some stock intakes, I can't imagine that they are as flow balanced as one might assume either. If there is a smooth, radiused flow into the plenum and there is enough volume for each runner to pull from, I can't imagine flow balance being that much of an issue. The other piece is that flow testing an intake does not factor in how pressurizing the intake plenum alters flow.

Worst case scenario is that it doesn't work. On this motor, that's not that big of a deal.

vipernbox

01-31-2011, 10:52 AM

Worst case scenario is that it doesn't work. On this motor, that's not that big of a deal.

:evil:

it is really nice to know I am not the only one :nod:

cordes

01-31-2011, 12:24 PM

Speaking of making TBI tubo header, and custom intake manifolds got me thinking. How come no one (that I know of) has used a TBI intake to put a custom plenum on?

Just thinking out loud.

Edit:
Just thought about no injector bungs...... But I guess they could be added.

I've thought about using the runners from one and attaching a plenum to it. Just a thought though I haven't done any work towards it at all.

vipernbox

01-31-2011, 12:44 PM

For the work though... and I know Aluminum should be the material of choice.. heck.. some steel plate and tubing just like an exhaust header could be fabricated by just about anyone with a torch and welder...

and you can buy injector bungs in just about any material you wish, ready to go.. just weld them up..

Vigo

01-31-2011, 01:09 PM

The thing about the tbi intake is that the runners go pretty much straight out from the head. In the turbo intakes they start curving upwards almost immediately. You cant run a stock turbo manifold and a tbi intake, they interfere physically. Putting a bigger plenum on it would probably only make it worse.
There might still be benefits to it, but you'd have to cut the runners pretty close to the head and add some angles to raise up where the plenum would sit.

Mike_Shepard

01-31-2011, 03:29 PM

Lots of great pictures pat great reference place for me and my 2dr Special K

Shadow

01-31-2011, 05:02 PM

I bought an upper 2 pc flange, and made the plenum out of a 4" diameter aluminum driveshaft Dave managed to scavenge and some pieces of the box truck door I used to make the end tanks for the triple core intercooler that I ran in the Shadow at it's last GRM outing. So far, it's coming out pretty good, particularly since I weld aluminum with a spool gun/MIG.

Ha, I see those 4" driveshafts are making the rounds. lol Lookin good!

I was a little concerned about how thin they were when I made mine, but after several 38+ psi runs and years later no prob's!

Pat

01-31-2011, 05:25 PM

Ha, I see those 4" driveshafts are making the rounds. lol Lookin good!

I was a little concerned about how thin they were when I made mine, but after several 38+ psi runs and years later no prob's!

I didn't realize that was what you used! I too was a bit concerned with how thin it is but I figured I'd give it a whirl and see how it worked out. Glad to hear it's held up for you.

Pat

02-25-2011, 01:03 PM

A little ink for the turbo-mopar community. April, 2011 issue of Grassroots Motorsports! :thumb:

Write them letter about how you'd love to see a feature article on the ScAries! Just kidding....sort of. :)

2923529236

vipernbox

02-25-2011, 01:11 PM

AWESOME...

I hope mine shows up in the next couple days...

rx2mazda

02-25-2011, 02:51 PM

Nice Pat!

Reeves

02-25-2011, 02:54 PM

Pat

02-25-2011, 03:06 PM

Awesome! :thumb: Is it on news stands yet?

Thanks!

Not sure if it's ont he newstands yet, mine lands on my doorstep. If not, it should be soon.

R/T

02-25-2011, 03:53 PM

Saw that last week, good ink!!

omni_840

02-25-2011, 05:24 PM

Congrats!:)

Directconnection

02-25-2011, 08:56 PM

Yeah... congrats Pat!

BTW: did you get help with what you needed last week?

Pat

02-26-2011, 07:18 AM

Yeah... congrats Pat!

BTW: did you get help with what you needed last week?

Sorry I didn't get back to you...yes, I'm all set. Project starting today. :-)

Directconnection

02-26-2011, 11:22 AM

Sorry I didn't get back to you...yes, I'm all set. Project starting today. :-)

Ok. If you do need help, I can do my best to lend a hand to the team:thumb:

Pat

02-26-2011, 11:24 PM

This is already looking like it's going to be a huge pain in the a*%.

Reeves

02-28-2011, 05:48 PM

This is already looking like it's going to be a huge pain in the a*%.

That's what she said!

contraption22

02-28-2011, 05:57 PM

Congrats on the results and on the ink Pat. Header looks cool so far. Don't forget to leave room for the starter. Don't laugh. I've seen it done.

This is already looking like it's going to be a huge pain in the a*%.

Pat

02-28-2011, 08:12 PM

Congrats on the results and on the ink Pat. Header looks cool so far. Don't forget to leave room for the starter. Don't laugh. I've seen it done.

I hear you...there's crap all over the place back there (Reeves...that's what she said!!!!) to work around. I have a mock motor in the car now, with the starter and PS pump, etc to test fit on. I want to tack a few pieces in there, then transfer it to the car.

I'm almost positive that I'll need to BFH the firewall a bit. Or alot. :-)

Here's a shot of the finished intake. Plenum is a GM truck driveshaft, some box truck door, a scrap piece of bend and a bunch of stuff cut off of a stock 1 pc.

ScottD

02-28-2011, 10:15 PM

I hear you...there's crap all over the place back there (Reeves...that's what she said!!!!) to work around. I have a mock motor in the car now, with the starter and PS pump, etc to test fit on. I want to tack a few pieces in there, then transfer it to the car.

I'm almost positive that I'll need to BFH the firewall a bit. Or alot. :-)

Here's a shot of the finished intake. Plenum is a GM truck driveshaft, some box truck door, a scrap piece of bend and a bunch of stuff cut off of a stock 1 pc.

That turned out awesome with the silver paint! We need to figure out what to do with the valve cover, something to go with the intake.

rx2mazda

03-01-2011, 12:12 AM

That turned out awesome with the silver paint! We need to figure out what to do with the valve cover, something to go with the intake.

How about some old man flames?

Pat

03-01-2011, 06:19 AM

How about some old man flames?

I'm surprised you even noticed the flames on the shadow...they are on the front of the car. I'm pretty sure you've only seen the back. :-)

Reeves

03-01-2011, 10:43 AM

Wow! That intake really turned out nice!

"Top Fuel" Bender

03-01-2011, 06:45 PM

Don't forget to leave room for the starter. Don't laugh. I've seen it done.

oh snap !
Well I've actually seen it done twice

got to admit the driveshaft looks nicer then my flagpole

Vigo

03-02-2011, 01:32 AM

Wow, 2100 lbs? That makes me really curious about mine, ive always assumed it was in the 2400s.

cordes

03-02-2011, 12:25 PM

That intake looks great!

Pat

03-07-2011, 02:02 PM

Wow! That intake really turned out nice!

That intake looks great!

Thanks. It's far from perfect. My aluminum welding skills leave a lot to be desired, plus welding the various pieces of other crap was difficult. Once painted up though, I think it came out pretty well.

Wow, 2100 lbs? That makes me really curious about mine, ive always assumed it was in the 2400s.

Yeah, that shocked me too. It was 2170 without me in it. That was with the scooped hood on it which is much heavier than the skinned flat hood, with 4 steelies on it and with the full nitrous bottle in it. With the slicks on it, the flat hood and me in it, it probably right about 2300 race weight.

Not sure how much of yours is left, but my car is pretty well gutted, including everything that once lived under the dash. :-)

Pat

03-22-2011, 10:46 PM

Engine is back in and she's running again. :thumb:

First crack at the header wasn't fitting right, so I decided to put it back together without the header for now. Time is tight this spring with kid activities and I was concerned I'd miss the better part of the season while I was trying to get the header to work. I'll keep working on it (mostly because I've always wanted to try to build one) and if it gets done, I'll swap it on, but for now, ported stocker for me.

I drove it around the neighborhood a bit, and so far, so good. Can't wait to run it again.

29760

Vigo

03-22-2011, 11:03 PM

Looking good!

Not sure how much of yours is left, but my car is pretty well gutted, including everything that once lived under the dash. :-)

As far as i know our cars are very similarly gutted.. Everything interior is gone except for the main dash (empty like yours) and the the doors are still complete with factory glass. I also still have the bumper supports and no speed-holing but everything else is gone. I can see the glass and associated mechanisms having some weight but i cant think of anything else major..

ShadowFromHell

03-22-2011, 11:20 PM

135sohc

03-22-2011, 11:21 PM

Rust helps with weight reduction, something we have alot of around here :(

Pat

03-23-2011, 06:16 AM

So is the intake the only thing you did? No one as far as I know has done a true back to back with a modded intake, I am going to be real curious to see how much this changes the car!

Well, yes and no. The intake is the only major set up difference, but the bigger difference is the fact that the head should actually function now. I think the exhaust valves hanging up in the guides was an issue before I realized what was happening. Since other things were fixed, this probably will not be a good A-B test.

On the weight, interior is completely gutted, it's empty under the dash, the rear doors are gutted and have lexan windows, no bumpers or supports, trunk lid skinned, no trunk hinges or latch, hood skinned also with no hinges or latch. This car has zero rust on it, which is good, but no extra natural lightening has taken place yet. :-)

There's more weight I can get out of it. Just need to decide if I can swing it budget wise and if the car will still look presentable. I also hope that I have to add a few lbs to it with a roll bar. :nod:

Aries_Turbo

03-23-2011, 08:29 AM

Pat

03-23-2011, 09:02 AM

id you add any lightweight bumper cover supports? without anything (like some conduit welded up for the bumper cover to sit on) they warp and deform pretty bad in the sun and look terrible.

that car is awesome. i finally started working on my k car again. :) its not going to be gutted or really pushing the envelope though.

Brian

Sort of...there are some zip ties supporting the the front and an aluminum bracket in the back. Better supports front and back would definitely help.

Aries_Turbo

03-23-2011, 09:43 AM

lol. nothing beats zip ties hehe.

my old winter beater aries, the bumper was tore partially off when i had a snowplow truck pull me out of a snow drift. the cover was still good so i replaced the support with some scrap metal welded to the body and a piece of conduit to support the cover lengthwise. worked awesome...... till i got rear ended lol.

it was still intact but the scrap metal poked through the cover and gouged the crap out of the front bumper of an oldsmobile intrigue. hehehe. oops. he didnt care though. he was just glad that i didnt care that i got rear ended and wasnt going to do anything insurance wise. i think my exact words were "i paid 150$ for this car, i dont give a ----"

Brian

vipernbox

03-23-2011, 10:55 AM

Just keep raising the bar why don't cha.. Geez.... :)

Vigo

03-23-2011, 11:20 AM

On the weight, interior is completely gutted, it's empty under the dash, the rear doors are gutted and have lexan windows, no bumpers or supports, trunk lid skinned, no trunk hinges or latch, hood skinned also with no hinges or latch. This car has zero rust on it, which is good, but no extra natural lightening has taken place yet. :-)

Gotcha, there's some more stuff i hadnt thought of, but sound like not more than 100 lbs worth. Im gonna have to weigh mine to settle my curiosity.

Best of luck with this new motor. That valve guide mess was a crock, hopefully no more freak occurrences this go-round. :)

rx2mazda

03-23-2011, 12:50 PM

Loooking good Pat! Let the good times roll.:D

Reeves

03-23-2011, 01:38 PM

Loooking good Pat! Let the good times roll.:D

Is he painting it Kawasaki green or something???

Pat

04-29-2011, 06:06 AM

Getting ready for a local autocross I'm going to tomorrow. The wife and I did a quick tape measure alignment (I've got a very cool wife!) with as much negative camber as I could get with these wheels and no spacers and just a bit of toe out as an experiment.

Strut clearance is more of an issue with the Kosei's than it is with the Revolutions we ran at GRM, but the tires on the Kosei's are at least 8 years old and I have no issues burning what's left of them off.

I like it with the white Kosei's. Changes the look of the car completely.

30656

Aries_Turbo

04-29-2011, 07:04 AM

looks great pat!

brian

Keito

04-29-2011, 07:21 AM

Kosei's look hot.
Looks great!

ScottD

04-29-2011, 07:52 AM

The wife and I did a quick tape measure alignment

I like it with the white Kosei's. Changes the look of the car completely.

30656

1) You, the wife, and a tape measure sounds like a personal issue ....

2) The Kosei's look awesome, maybe those should be the wheels for the car show portion of GRM.

turbojerk

04-29-2011, 07:57 AM

Tear schitt up Pat! I wish that I could join you tomorrow....damit....

Pat

04-29-2011, 08:04 AM

1) You, the wife, and a tape measure sounds like a personal issue ....

2) The Kosei's look awesome, maybe those should be the wheels for the car show portion of GRM.

1 - No issue there!

2- Maybe. I do want to change it up a little.

turbojerk

04-29-2011, 08:08 AM

Yeah Pat had the business end of that tape measure and he can make it as long as he wants and she'll believe him....

Juggy

04-29-2011, 09:10 AM

Yeah Pat had the business end of that tape measure and he can make it as long as he wants and she'll believe him....

lol comon man. not like any girl actually knows how big an inch really is, especially when someone tells you they have 8 or 9 of them lined up in a row haha

Reeves

04-29-2011, 09:41 AM

(I've got a very cool wife!)

:needpics1:

Pat

04-29-2011, 09:52 AM

:needpics1:

With this crowd??? I don't think so.... LOL!

Reeves

04-29-2011, 09:55 AM

With this crowd??? I don't think so.... LOL!

You have my PM and my email and my cell.

ScottD

04-29-2011, 10:19 AM

With this crowd??? I don't think so.... LOL!

Jeez Pat, the precedent has been set, Reeves did post some pics of his wife, the lovely Ashley Force Reeves.

"Top Fuel" Bender

04-30-2011, 08:08 AM

good luck Pat !!

168glhs1986

04-30-2011, 09:18 AM

Show them what's up with Turbo-Mopar!

Pat

04-30-2011, 06:53 PM

I'm back. Car makes great power, brakes are fine, but man, was it LOOSE. And when I say loose, I mean it was loose everywhere. Need to look through the front suspension a bit more closely.

Awesome time though!

ScottD

04-30-2011, 08:19 PM

These were taken with my phone, not ideal but not terrible either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcZwQV-lrIw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fwq0J10vx8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhKRx6CdTkU

omni_840

04-30-2011, 10:29 PM

Looks like a fun course! What times did you run? How did you finish in your class?

Pat

05-01-2011, 06:43 AM

My runs:

1 - 63 seconds - 1 cone (spun out)
2 - 48.xx
3 - 47.xx
4 - 47.xx
5 - 46.0x
6 - 50.xx (see last video...got too aggressive and lost it twice)

Barry Miles ran it for three runs in the afternoon session also. He ran a 47 or 48 for two passes with a few cones each, but was out of control loose. His last pass, he went very easy and went 45.2.

This local club runs off of an index, meaning they stack rank everyone but apply multipliers for tires, horespower and weight. I was no where near the top (FTD was a Cobra that ran 40.5), but we were easily mid pack.

I'm happy with how the motor is running, now we just need to tune suspension. It absolutely needs more spring, particularly in the front ,but I have an idea on how to do that on the super cheap. Better tires would help a ton and I need to use the Revolution wheels that we had on it for the challenge since I can dial in almost an extra degree of negative camber without hitting the strut, which I couldn't do with the Kosei's.

I'll tell you, the car is a blast to drive. It's also fun that it seems to be received so well by others when I take it out (good for the ego - lol!). There were a number of people who commented to me on how much they liked it, how cool it was, etc. It's fun building and racing a car that no one would ever expect to be built or raced. :-)

Directconnection

05-01-2011, 10:15 AM

Was this the GRM challenge or a local autocross?

Pat

05-01-2011, 10:22 AM

Was this the GRM challenge or a local autocross?

Just a local autocross.

The challenge autox videos are on pg 13 of this thread.

Pat

05-20-2011, 10:47 PM

Ok, been working on the suspension lately. The plan to get more spring in the front was literally, to put more springs in the front!

As you go through the pics, you'll see what I did. I first cut the retainer piece off of the strut. With that out of the way, a factory rear spring off a Daytona fit in there near perfectly. I welded small locator piece onto the spring perch, to keep the Daytona spring located and not interfering with the front spring.

On the spring hat, I scraped the rubber off, bent up some scrap metal into a cone and welded it on. Since this pic was taken, I trimmed it down quite a bit and rounded the edge, but what it does is guide the smaller end of the Daytona spring onto the perch. With a bit of grinding on the spring, the small end of the rear spring fits beautifully on the hat.

To fit the spring, I measured how much I'd need with the car sitting at it's ride height. I then cut the spring so it is not fully seated until the car is sitting at ride height. This means I didn't raise the car at all doing this, but I pick up an extra 130-150 lbs (???) of spring rate as soon as it the suspension compresses.

I supported the lower part of the rear spring with small pieces of rubber, which help keep the spring located. It will also be tied down to the perch with mechanics wire.

Budget cost - zero. Fair market value of stock Daytona rear springs is really nothing. I couldn't give them away. Probably have a spring rate of about 350-370 up front now...just hope the strut can handle it for a relatively bump free autocross at Gainesville.

Matching the back to the front is next. :eyebrows:

Pat

05-20-2011, 10:50 PM

Also slotted the upper knuckle bolt hole in the strut to get some more negative camber capability. with a small spacer and the negative camber maxed out as far as it will go, I'm just under 4 degrees on each side. Me likey. :nod:

Vigo

05-20-2011, 11:47 PM

vipernbox

05-21-2011, 12:36 AM

hehehehe....

Pat

05-21-2011, 06:06 AM

Glad to see it come to fruition! :D Have you driven hard on it yet?

What was the behavior or trait of the car that made you want the front to be stiffer in the first place? Purely body roll (unloading inside tire)?

4 degrees is a lot of camber. Have you been talking to anyone else using that much? I dont think ive seen that very often.

Keep up the good work.. :)

The car pitches and rolls way too much. It feels stiff on the street, but it is weak when pushed at an autocross. I'm autocrossing it next weekend, but the back wont be done by then. This particular parking lot has a huge dip in it and I want to see how the front behaves with the struts I have in it.

On the camber, I highly doubt I'll run that much, but I would like to run more than I previously was able to. I'm guessing I'll probably land around -3.

turbojerk

05-21-2011, 09:13 AM

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31038&d=1305946157

Jealous...!

turboshad

05-23-2011, 01:48 AM

Pat

05-23-2011, 08:52 AM

Are you running a rear sway bar Pat? That was probably one of the biggest night and day mods I have done for the handling of the Shadow. The extra spring probably brings you just under where you would want to be with the front rate. Great idea for a mod. :clap:

Yes, I do have a rear bar(s). I have brackets welded to either end of the twist beam, then different diameter bars that bolt in, which gives me some adjustability around how much twist I want in the twist beam. There is a picture on page 9 of this thead, post #160.

Based on an assumed 370 lb/in in the front, what would you think the ideal rear spring rate should be? What think I'd like to do is get as close as possible to neutral with maybe a little understeer car with rear spring stiffness, then use the different rear bar diameters to tune in some looseness in the rear. I'll be running 275/35/15 Hoosier A6's up front and 225/45/15's out back. My guess is that I'll want at least 370 out back, maybe more.

I'll also be corner weighting the car at some point this summer. At GRM last year, with the steel wheels on it, scooped hood and a full nitrous bottle and a 160 lb driver: LF 848, RF 737, LR 385, RR 361, total 2330.

Suggestions?

ScottD

05-23-2011, 11:45 AM

Suggestions?

Add huge whale tail spoiler to create crazy mad downforce???

Reeves

05-23-2011, 12:06 PM

Add huge whale tail spoiler to create crazy mad downforce???

And make it out of an old skid or something. Plus add some led to it for even more downforce.

csxtra

05-23-2011, 12:52 PM

Plus add some led to it for even more downforce.

How is putting lights on it going to add downforce?:bolt:

Seriously though...sweet way to get extra spring rate on the cheap:thumb: Really looking forward to seeing what you do for more rear spring rate.

Pat

05-23-2011, 12:55 PM

Add huge whale tail spoiler to create crazy mad downforce???

And make it out of an old skid or something. Plus add some led to it for even more downforce.

Only on the right side to even out the corner weights, right??

contraption22

05-23-2011, 01:40 PM

I suggest vortex generators. And canards.

Reeves

05-23-2011, 02:22 PM

How is putting lights on it going to add downforce?:bolt:

If you aim the LED's at a 45* angle on the wing, the infrared light they put out (naked to the human eye, but not too birds) creates a downforce with the Ultraviolet Oh Zone Layer. The more juice you put to the LED's (some scientists call it Watts) the more downforce you get. I would soak them each night in CapriSun pouches for the ultimate in downforce. Plus they look kewl yo.

Pat

05-23-2011, 02:36 PM

Oh Zone Layer.

31094

Reeves

05-23-2011, 03:01 PM

31094

Exactly what I was referring to.

Pat

05-23-2011, 03:18 PM

Exactly what I was referring to.

Apparently grown men with a 13 year old maturity level think alike!

LOL!

Reeves

05-23-2011, 03:19 PM

Oh, oh........you know.....oh.

csxtra

05-23-2011, 04:13 PM

Oh!

lol

ScottD

05-23-2011, 05:34 PM

Make sure you wear a rubber, dude!

31095

turboshad

05-25-2011, 10:43 AM

Based on an assumed 370 lb/in in the front, what would you think the ideal rear spring rate should be? What think I'd like to do is get as close as possible to neutral with maybe a little understeer car with rear spring stiffness, then use the different rear bar diameters to tune in some looseness in the rear. I'll be running 275/35/15 Hoosier A6's up front and 225/45/15's out back. My guess is that I'll want at least 370 out back, maybe more.

I'll also be corner weighting the car at some point this summer. At GRM last year, with the steel wheels on it, scooped hood and a full nitrous bottle and a 160 lb driver: LF 848, RF 737, LR 385, RR 361, total 2330.

Suggestions?

I made this chart up to show the natural frequency of a given spring rate and corner weight with the motion ratio of my Shadow which should be close. I would go for a frequency of 2-2.2 in a more dedicated race car in the front. You want the rear to be slightly higher so that it responds quicker to bumps and levels out the same time as the front. It needs to respond quicker because the rear tire will hit the bumps last and have less time to respond. On your corner weights be sure to take off weight for your wheel and half of the control arm and strut. Averaging out your 2 sides and taking off 50lbs I came up with about 450lb/in in the front and 275lb/in in the rear. This of course is just a starting point because it leaves a few things out like the sway bar and tire rate, but I was quite pleased with the setup on my Shadow. If you PM me your email I can send you the simple spreadsheet I made.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g103/turboshad/93%20Shadow/Suspension/NaturalFrequency-2.jpg

30 PSI SHADOW

05-25-2011, 11:08 AM

you need to lay off the capri sun DJ.....

Pat

05-25-2011, 11:29 AM

I made this chart up to show the natural frequency of a given spring rate and corner weight with the motion ratio of my Shadow which should be close. I would go for a frequency of 2-2.2 in a more dedicated race car in the front. You want the rear to be slightly higher so that it responds quicker to bumps and levels out the same time as the front. It needs to respond quicker because the rear tire will hit the bumps last and have less time to respond. On your corner weights be sure to take off weight for your wheel and half of the control arm and strut. Averaging out your 2 sides and taking off 50lbs I came up with about 450lb/in in the front and 275lb/in in the rear. This of course is just a starting point because it leaves a few things out like the sway bar and tire rate, but I was quite pleased with the setup on my Shadow. If you PM me your email I can send you the simple spreadsheet I made.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g103/turboshad/93%20Shadow/Suspension/NaturalFrequency-2.jpg

Just PM'd you...thanks for the help!

Pat

05-30-2011, 06:37 AM

Ran the car at a local autocross again yesterday to test on the front spring(s) modification. Other than the front springs, the only other differences were fresh sway bar end link bushings and I used spring rubbers to block one rear spring coil, which should have bumped the rate up about 20%.

Driving the car was nothing like it had been in the past. No more bottoming out, no pitching and rolling, it was smooth, predictable and easy to drive. The tires on the car are shot, but before they heated up too much, the car was relatively neutral and I could make it rotate with my right foot easily. I'm really happy with how the suspension changes turned out. Now, to get more tire on it and to corner weight it. :-)

Troy took a few videos that I'm sure he'll post soon.

cordes

05-30-2011, 08:13 PM

Wow, that's an awesome report. Thanks for sharing what you've been up to.

turbojerk

05-30-2011, 10:20 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-qqJlwR2C8

bakes

05-30-2011, 11:31 PM

Thats some impressive improvement.
any pics on the spring mods?

Pat

05-31-2011, 09:54 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-qqJlwR2C8

Thanks T! That's actually very helpful to see.

How about the one where I took out 6 cones with a tail happy corner and one big spin? :-)

Thats some impressive improvement.
any pics on the spring mods?

See post #328.

vipernbox

05-31-2011, 08:44 PM

That looks pretty impressive... So the Struts are handling the extra spring well enough for now?

"Top Fuel" Bender

05-31-2011, 10:29 PM

Struts
I'd be worried about the frame blowing the welds out , hehe
Local oval track guys have been going light (125-150lb springs) with crazy big bars
(used to be decent bars with heavy springs)
but....been working great for them
probably not the best for the grassroots , where your doing different events

Pat

06-04-2011, 10:37 PM

Whew...what a day. Went to a Mopar day at 75/80 Dragway with a whole crew of TM guys. It was a blast, the crowd was fun and the racing was good.

Made some great progress on the ScAries. My goal today was to gather data and document changes to the car based on minor tuning changes made. I logged a ton of information, took detailed notes and was able to see very clearly how the car reacts to different changes. I also think I ID'd a huge cork holding it back.

First pass, 17 psi, no spray, 12.50 @ 108 with a 1.85 ST. Second pass a bit more boost, 12.25 @ 110 with a 1.81. On these two passes, I was having some slight wheel hop at the 12 psi that I ran these slicks at with the Shadow. I was getting a bit concerned about the extra springs up front causing issues but I knew I could keep dropping pressure to try to find where it would work. Dropped down to 10 psi nailed a 1.69 ST! Ran the pass out, hit the spray button on the top of 3rd to purge and ran it through 4th and it went 11.86 @ 116.6.

Back to the pits, check everything out and head back out and run a full pass hitting the 50 shot from the top of 1st on and went 11.57 @ 118.xx (can't find the slip) with a 1.71 ST. At this point, it was evident that the intercooler was not flowing enough. The pressure differential across the cooler was getting high (3-4 psi pressure drop around 21 psi manifold pressure). I decided to lower the boost, and put the 75 jets in it to see if I could replace charge pressure with spray and "bypass" the IC to get oxygen into the cylinders. Loosened up the gvalve, swapped the jets and out I went:

ST 1.70
1/8: 7.43 @ 94.79
1/4: 11.53 @ 119.55

I could taste the 11.4, so I went out one more time with a bit more boost and hammered it again:

ST: 1.72
1/8: 4.84 @ 95.80
1/4: 11.47 @ 120.38

At that point, I called it a day. Big thing learned was this IC is killing me. It's not flowing enough and it's not pulling enough charge temp out. With what the car weighs, I should be in the mid 11's on just the motor. I have a good idea now how to get there.

ScottD

06-04-2011, 10:46 PM

Let's cage that sucka!

Vigo

06-04-2011, 11:35 PM

I believe the only fitting term here is "Badass".

rx2mazda

06-04-2011, 11:56 PM

Awesomeness Pat! If your still free Monday I can come up. Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier.

contraption22

06-05-2011, 12:44 AM

Awesome work Pat!
9

turboshad

06-05-2011, 01:28 AM

That's pretty dang sweet Pat. :clap: I swear, whenever I see your results I feel like I missing something big in my own build. Why can't I just know everything now?

Vigo

06-05-2011, 01:32 AM

Eh, the only thing you might be 'missing' is the 7 or 800 lbs you're heavier than that aries. Keep that in mind.. It's amazing what a 'mild' motor setup will do in a 2100 lb car. I know i'm amazed..

Pat

06-05-2011, 06:33 AM

Eh, the only thing you might be 'missing' is the 7 or 800 lbs you're heavier than that aries. Keep that in mind.. It's amazing what a 'mild' motor setup will do in a 2100 lb car. I know i'm amazed..

I'd say it's my overall wreckless abandon and lack of breakage fear when driving it, but I've seen you drive your car too! :-)

That's pretty dang sweet Pat. :clap: I swear, whenever I see your results I feel like I missing something big in my own build. Why can't I just know everything now?

Vigo's weigh in on this (get it, get it, huh huh!) is on the money. Weight is a killer. But, skinning a car like I did with the Aries is a huge trade off. It's a small turbo'd 8v that is far from a power house that puts down a good number because it's not pulling a ton of weight. It's also no where near a car I would ever consider driving across country to go to an SDAC convention.

My car is also stands little chance of lasting very long at the power level I'm shooting for. It's still a cast crank, non common block motor with T-II rods/pistons.

"Top Fuel" Bender

06-05-2011, 08:13 AM

Nice Job

2.216VTurbo

06-05-2011, 08:32 AM

I don't care if it's a skateboard with 2.2 strapped to it, 11.4X's on TII rods and pistons is pure awesomeness:hail: You're definately in that 10% of guys here that take it to the track with knowledge:clap: Nice.

turbojerk

06-05-2011, 12:17 PM

I'm in the 90% that tries to follow Pat's lead!

cordes

06-05-2011, 03:47 PM

You're still using the IC from the beginning of the thread correct? How thick is it? I would think a unit of that size would flow better than what it's doing.

Pat

06-05-2011, 05:10 PM

You're still using the IC from the beginning of the thread correct? How thick is it? I would think a unit of that size would flow better than what it's doing.

Yes...same cooler. The core is 24x11.5x3. It's still outperforming a stocker by a long way, but it seems as if I've passed it's effectiveness.

Directconnection

06-05-2011, 06:08 PM

Yes...same cooler. The core is 24x11.5x3. It's still outperforming a stocker by a long way, but it seems as if I've passed it's effectiveness.

Do you have room for a triple core? Or.... how does the Spearco 1080 (?) compare that TU/FWD sells? I'm not sure the Spearco could properly shed the heat put through it on an autocross even though you're limiting the boost/hp for that event in favor of traction.

Pat

06-05-2011, 06:43 PM

Do you have room for a triple core? .

There will be. Soon.

That's actually the plan. I'm going to weld up a triple core, which I know for a fact is well more than I'll ever need in this car, but it will work and I know I can meet budget with it no problem.

Vigo

06-05-2011, 11:32 PM

I'd say it's my overall wreckless abandon and lack of breakage fear when driving it, but I've seen you drive your car too! :-)

I assume your use of the word WRECKless was an honest typo and not GLOATING! :p There's no kind of driving i could do to mine that would help it keep up with yours! But, ive had most of the same plans for mine that you've already completed on yours and seeing your results is a great motivator!!

I'm in the 90% that tries to follow Pat's lead!

Ditto!:clap:

Tizz102

06-07-2011, 01:52 PM

Okay.. got some vids from Sat's run!!

11.47 @ 120 mph

http://youtu.be/ZDKF6knrs0A

More to come!

turbojerk

06-07-2011, 02:05 PM

Okay.. got some vids from Sat's run!!

11.47 @ 120 mph

http://youtu.be/ZDKF6knrs0A

More to come!

Nice! That was supposed to be my first 12sec pass,… stupid 3rd gear! LoL!

Tizz102

06-07-2011, 05:04 PM

Nice! That was supposed to be my first 12sec pass,… stupid 3rd gear! LoL!

^ I have a few others vids of yours if you want them uploaded somewhere else?!

Here's the other vids of the ScAries from Saturday!

1st run:
http://youtu.be/YWZDDGa2384

run #2
http://youtu.be/upw3_1Fngpk

run #3
http://youtu.be/Vbujy5-eeYE

Run #4
http://youtu.be/yC863OnLNKc

I think thats all I got.. Enjoy!!

turbojerk

06-07-2011, 10:37 PM

^ I have a few others vids of yours if you want them uploaded somewhere else?

Sure! Just PM me the links please!

ScottD

06-08-2011, 08:06 AM

Okay.. got some vids from Sat's run!!

11.47 @ 120 mph

http://youtu.be/ZDKF6knrs0A

More to come!

Slightly off topic but did you happen to take any videos of my Turismo 2.2 making a pass?

Vigo

06-08-2011, 12:58 PM

ooo I want to know what it ran! :)

ScottD

06-08-2011, 02:35 PM

ooo I want to know what it ran! :)

Are you referring to Pat's car or my carb'd beast?

Vigo

06-08-2011, 02:43 PM

The carbd Turismo. I already know what Pat's car ran! :p

ScottD

06-08-2011, 05:42 PM

The carbd Turismo. I already know what Pat's car ran! :p

Just making sure. It ran a scorching best of 16.81 @ 80.05mph! I could see fear in Pat's eyes after it ran ....

Vigo

06-08-2011, 06:08 PM

Hey, plenty of stock t1 cars have run that time over the years, so think of it that way. Sucks for them. :)

ScottD

06-08-2011, 06:19 PM

Hey, plenty of stock t1 cars have run that time over the years, so think of it that way. Sucks for them. :)

Yeah, and I thought with a couple more runs I may have gotten it down to 16.7 or 16.6 - it got progressively quicker the more passes I made. Heck, this stunning carb'd performance probably inspired the ScAries to dip into the 11.4s!!!

Tizz102

06-08-2011, 06:31 PM

Slightly off topic but did you happen to take any videos of my Turismo 2.2 making a pass?

yup yup! I got all of us from Sat! i'll finish uploading and pm you guys the links.

ScottD

06-10-2011, 08:48 AM

yup yup! I got all of us from Sat! i'll finish uploading and pm you guys the links.

Awesome thanks!

Now back to the regularly schedule ScAries discussion and my apologies to Pat for the quasi thread hi-jack!

Pat

07-04-2011, 11:05 PM

Did these a few weeks ago, but haven't posted up....new IC set up (triple core, tanks made from an aluminum box truck door - borrowed from the Shadow) and a little experiment of a downpipe. I cut apart a 2.25" swingvalve, separated the wastegate area from the turbine area, made a 3" downpipe out of a bent exhaust system from wreck and bought some 1.5" pipe and welded up a wastegate dump. Not sure if a true divorced downpipe will make a difference at all, but it was something I wanted to try, looks cool and it certainly won't hurt.

bakes

07-04-2011, 11:17 PM

Nice work Pat !! dont forget to port the wasgate hole .

cordes

07-05-2011, 01:13 AM

Very nice. Do you think there would have been a benefit to squeezing a 4th cooler in there?

glhs0426

07-05-2011, 04:53 AM

I really like the downpipe setup you made. Are you going to evaluate it as a stand alone part or with the triple core intercooler?

Pat

07-05-2011, 06:53 AM

Nice work Pat !! dont forget to port the wasgate hole .

I can't do much with that now. If the head has to come off the car before GRM, I'll do a bit of porting there if necessary if it creeps too much. Truthfully, I'm OK with boost creep as long as I can tune for it.

Very nice. Do you think there would have been a benefit to squeezing a 4th cooler in there?

Doubt it. The triple core was plenty for the Shadow in the mid 10s at 135+ mph, and the Shadow is a heavier car.

I really like the downpipe setup you made. Are you going to evaluate it as a stand alone part or with the triple core intercooler?

Not at this point. Maybe down the road. It probably will only get one more drag tuning and one more autocross tuning before GRM this year.

Thanks everyone.

2.216VTurbo

07-05-2011, 09:37 AM

When I did the divorced wastegate pipe on the rampage I noticed it wanted to go into boost all the time. Kind of borderline annoying, if your are just driving light throttle and you don't really want the boost it's bothersome. Probably wouldn't be so bad but you really HEAR the spool and wastegate noise with them separated.

Nice work Pat, be sure to post your driving impressions and results:eyebrows:

Pat

07-05-2011, 03:08 PM

rx2mazda

08-21-2011, 06:19 PM

This thread needs an update with pics asap! :thumb:

Pat

08-21-2011, 10:03 PM

ScottD

08-22-2011, 08:47 AM

This thread needs an update with pics asap! :thumb:

I was at Pat's this weekend and saw the car, but .... when I got there he showed me this autographed picture of Melanie Troxel and I don't remember anything after that.

turbovanman²

08-22-2011, 01:57 PM

Reeves

08-22-2011, 04:37 PM

I was at Pat's this weekend and saw the car, but .... when I got there he showed me this autographed picture of Melanie Troxel and I don't remember anything after that.

You mean my main squeeze?

Pat

08-22-2011, 05:13 PM

And I thought I was the only one....

33384

turbovanman²

08-22-2011, 05:16 PM

You guys are whores, :D

Directconnection

08-22-2011, 06:51 PM

You mean my main squeeze?

Who's the cute chick posing with the lead singer of Rascal Flats?

ScottD

08-23-2011, 08:59 AM

You mean my main squeeze?

Wait .... I thought you were married to Ashley Force Reeves???

If I see you post up a pic of you with Angelle Savoie next I'll go nuts!

Pat

08-23-2011, 09:52 AM

Here's a bit of an update on what we've been doing with the car. It's been a very busy couple of months.

Obviously, I had decided to bring the car back to GRM this year. Last winter/spring, I made a number of suspension changes, did some autox testing and have the car handling significantly better than it did last year. We also did some drag testing, measuring pressure drop across the IC and did some tuning. We dropped 2/10's from where we were last year on what has been traditionally a slower track for me, figured out how to 60ft it a bit better than we have, and learned that the IC sucked. The IC has been changed to a home made triple core and I upgraded the swingvalve/downpipe assembly, which I believe will also help at the drags quite a bit. All of this is documented earlier in the thread.

About 6 months ago, Barry was able to score a set of 4x100 Diamond Racing wheels (two 15x10's and two 15x9's) from a Honda guy with a set of 275/35/15's. He scored these cheap...the story was that the Honda guy bought them to test fit, used them for a bit, then had aluminum wheels made to the same dimensions to run on his CRX.

Having these wheels got the ideas flowing...so, Crazy Mark had converted an '84 Daytona to 5 lug and was going to pitch the 4 lug set up. After hearing of what I had in mind, he was nice enough to hold onto them until we could meet up with him to grab them. Once I had them, I converted the Aries to 4 lug and bolted on the big --- Diamond's on it. With some spacing in the front, they cleared the brakes and struts, even with just over 3.5 degree negative camber. But, they wouldn't clear the body with any real suspension movement.

I debated cutting the car up and running with big wheel openings, but that looks a bit hack to me. We then decided to flare the wheel openings, but needed to figure out how to do it cheap. After a little hunting, I was able to score an old steel file cabinet that was being thrown out because part of it was bent and one drawer wouldn't open. I grabbed the cabinet and essentially skinned it for all the sheet metal I could scavenge off of it and started mocking up what would ultimately become the flares for the car. We used some round bar to make frames for the flares (essentially to use as a jig), molded the sheet metal by bending it over wheels and just working it to make the bends we needed. Now that they're on, most of the framing is going to be cut back out. We also did some quick side skirts to finish off the look between the flares. There is still plenty of work to do on them, but we're 90% done. Net weight gain of the flares is less than 20 lbs, but I think it's well worth it to get to use the much wider rubber which is what the car really needed to take it to the next level in the autocross.

We also did a front air dam out of some construction debris that Barry picked up. It's aluminum flashing from a home project that either didn't get done or was extra. It is pretty thin, but it weighs next to nothing and with some framing/bracing behind it, it should serve our purposes just fine.

The other big project was a roll bar since I have every intention of needing it :eyebrows:. GRM allows an NHRA 5 point bar without having it hit budget. Since our club bought a tubing bender last year, I decided to give it a go and do my first roll bar. Scott and I worked a long day last Saturday and got the DOM bent and tacked into place. For a first time, I'm very pleased. But, I learned quite a bit...next roll bar/cage will be much better. :-)

Total weight added has been been about 90 lbs, but we've managed to pull off about 35 lbs of it already and we haven't touched the front doors, front door glass, rear window or the spare tire well which is all going to happen in the next few weeks. I'm confident that we can still have the car around 2100-2200 lbs, which was where we were last year.

So, big changes for the ScAries. The plan now is to finish it up and paint it September 10th with it's new look. I liked the Super Bee theme, but with the huge tires, flares, air dam, etc, it's far from a Super Bee at this point. It's getting a new look this year, which I think will be pretty cool. The next pictures I post will hopefully be of the finished car.

It will get one more test session at a local autox on the 18th. I want Barry to get a bit of seat time before GRM since this car is now far from the TM's he's autocrossed in the past and we can do any final suspension, alignment, tire pressure tuning to see what's working. After that, I hope all we have to do is detail it, load it on the trailer and rest up for the trip.

Lots of work, but building the car has been a blast. Can't wait to see how this conglomeration of scrap, file cabinets, box truck doors, drive shafts, hand truck, ladder racks and other misc crap does down there. :nod:

contraption22

08-23-2011, 10:46 AM

Awesome! I dig the dirt track look!

blk86trbo

08-23-2011, 11:16 AM

I'm waiting for my master fabricator to finish the metal work he's been working on before I post a full update. He's short, gets cranky every now and again and he doesn't always eat his dinner, but he's pretty talented.

Here's a picture of him hard at work.

33378

LOL oh man that's an awesome picture!

This car is so neat, I love reading about it and looking at all the great pics!

Reeves

08-23-2011, 11:40 AM

So how's the back doors open? LOL

Looks great!

Shadow

08-23-2011, 11:49 AM

Awesome build/project! :thumb:

So cool to see what some of you guys are doing with a simple platform! :nod:

Pat

08-23-2011, 12:45 PM

Awesome! I dig the dirt track look!

Spoken like a man from Pennsylvania! LOL!

When it's done, it likely more resemble a flared autocross car more than a dirt track car....I hope! :-)

LOL oh man that's an awesome picture!

This car is so neat, I love reading about it and looking at all the great pics!

Thanks...the boys think the welding helmet makes them look like Darth Vader.

So how's the back doors open? LOL

Looks great!

Thanks...you know, the plan for the back doors was to cut the flares and have the doors be operational. Then I figured if I don't have a back seat, why should I worry about back doors?

Awesome build/project! :thumb:

So cool to see what some of you guys are doing with a simple platform! :nod:

It has been a cool project. This car was bought as a parts car with no intention of ever doing anything with it other than stripping the TII/568 out of it and junking it. The only reason I turned one wrench on it was that I realized I wouldn't be able to have my Shadow ready for SDAC last year and wanted to bring something. It's definitely snowballed from there, but it's a been a fun build and a blast to take to various events.

Reeves

08-23-2011, 12:57 PM

Thanks...you know, the plan for the back doors was to cut the flares and have the doors be operational. Then I figured if I don't have a back seat, why should I worry about back doors?

JMO, but I think it would be funny/cool to have a cheesy K-car bench seat in the back! I like 4 doors with a back seat still. Why 4 doors if no back seat? :thumb:

Pat

08-23-2011, 01:50 PM

JMO, but I think it would be funny/cool to have a cheesy K-car bench seat in the back! I like 4 doors with a back seat still. Why 4 doors if no back seat? :thumb:

That seat is long gone...it was pretty nasty.

mcsvt

08-23-2011, 02:43 PM

That is going to be awesome Pat!

Reaper1

08-23-2011, 08:27 PM

That thing looks KILLER!!! (get it? "K"iller....) Seriously, I really do like it a LOT! Those flares are just mean. I hope I might be able to make it to the Challenge this year. Last year school was still kicking my @ss, but I'm all graduated and stuff now! YAY!

Vigo

08-24-2011, 02:37 AM

Lookin good!

Reaper1

08-24-2011, 02:41 AM

Did you guys gut the wiring harness yet? According to several builds I've followed in the past there is a good amount of dead weight that can be gotten rid of there.

Pat

08-24-2011, 06:24 AM

Did you guys gut the wiring harness yet? According to several builds I've followed in the past there is a good amount of dead weight that can be gotten rid of there.

Not yet. We pulled weight out of the body harness of my shadow, but it was a lot of work for really only a few lbs. There are still plenty of areas that will net bigger weight losses that we haven't hit yet that I'd likely go after first. Time will dictate if the wiring harness gets touched at all.

ScottD

08-24-2011, 08:12 AM

JMO, but I think it would be funny/cool to have a cheesy K-car bench seat in the back! I like 4 doors with a back seat still. Why 4 doors if no back seat? :thumb:

Is this why your Omni still has a back seat? Is that your preference or did Ashley Force / Melanie Troxel / <insert other female NHRA driver Reeves is fooling around with here> insist on that????

Reeves

08-25-2011, 05:54 PM

Is this why your Omni still has a back seat? Is that your preference or did Ashley Force / Melanie Troxel / <insert other female NHRA driver Reeves is fooling around with here> insist on that????

The OMNI is just too cramped for all of us. We prefer the bed of the Ram.

Although, the roll cage tubing is great for O-faces, handcuffs, etc.....

Shadowv4l

08-30-2011, 10:42 PM

I gotta be honest, I think the car looked sexy before the ground effects. Picture #5 is yummy :) , nice wheels.

Pat

08-30-2011, 11:23 PM

I gotta be honest, I think the car looked sexy before the ground effects. Picture #5 is yummy :) , nice wheels.

It did look good, but it was far from functional. It needed a lot of cutting to make the 275's work on an autocross.

Shadowv4l

08-31-2011, 12:10 PM

ok, i gave it another chance, the back looks good but i think im hung up on the front. Im sure it will look much better after the paint work. Keep it up, thats a naughty little car :thumb:

Reaper1

08-31-2011, 01:36 PM

Looking good! I'm officially going ot be there as part of a team this year! Mickler's Recycled Racing!

Pat

09-12-2011, 10:30 PM

I was hoping to have the paint done, but my painter is dragging his feet a bit. Seems that there was a cartoon on that he liked, which diverted his attention. Between him and my fabricator that I pictured earlier, delays are somewhat inevitable...

Dig the high tech paint booth though. :)

cordes

09-12-2011, 11:28 PM

That is a nice paint booth. I wish we would have done something more similar. I should have moved more things out of the garage first.

168glhs1986

09-12-2011, 11:33 PM

Looks nice, more pics of the body kit and paint job please...

Shadowv4l

09-12-2011, 11:45 PM

Do I see white paint?! Imma have to save my pennies just in case you decide to sell it one day :) , Is there some way to call dibbs now? hahaha

Pat

09-13-2011, 08:38 AM

That is a nice paint booth. I wish we would have done something more similar. I should have moved more things out of the garage first.

It was actually amazingly effective. I sealed off the plastic (better than in the pic), had two fans blowing out and hvac filters under the garage door sealed up. There was a nice flow of air that pulled fumes and overspray mist out very quickly.

Looks nice, more pics of the body kit and paint job please...

Pics of the flares, air dam, side skirts, etc are a few posts back. Stop by if you want to check it out. I'll get more paint pics up when it's done. not quite finished yet.

Do I see white paint?! Imma have to save my pennies just in case you decide to sell it one day :) , Is there some way to call dibbs now? hahaha

We'll see. :-)

Reeves

09-13-2011, 10:05 AM

turboshad

09-13-2011, 11:01 AM

That's exactly how I set up my garage to paint the Shadow. The biggest issue for me was on paint boot attempt one, when I turned the fans on it sucked the walls in about a foot on each side making my booth much smaller. Needless to say I had to fix that and attempt two went much better. Once you wet down the floor it becomes a decently sterile dust free environment. Great job Pat. :clap:

Pat

09-18-2011, 07:26 PM

Had a great day of testing at a local autcross today. This is the first time running it roll bar stiffening up the chassis and with the big wheels/tires along with all of the other suspension mods listed earlier in the thread (end linked front bar, home made rear bar, double springs up front, shimmed springs in the rear). Barry drove it since he'll be wheeling in the autox at GRM (get him some seat time) and his feedback was exactly what I wanted to hear...predicable, able to rotate it, hooked hard, stable, no heavy lean, etc. And it was fast, much faster than it's ever been around the cones. Can you tell by Barry's expression he's happy? All in all, it's going in the right direction for GRM this year!

The look of the car is far from done, but here's a shot of how it looked today. It definitely got quite a bit of attention from other autocrossers. :)

When I get everything uploaded, I'll do a post with the details of the body and paint work.

rx2mazda

09-18-2011, 08:06 PM

i predict you will win GRM this year!

omni_840

09-18-2011, 09:12 PM

i predict you will win GRM this year!
+1

WOW! That thing looks awesome:nod:

Vigo

09-18-2011, 09:34 PM

Badass.

Pat

09-18-2011, 09:42 PM

Thanks guys...two more from my phone from today. I did get one video but I can't find the damn cable to upload it.

omni_840

09-18-2011, 09:57 PM

What kind of wheels are those? Diamond?

Any info would be appreciated:)

168glhs1986

09-18-2011, 10:06 PM

Is this the same car?

Pat

09-18-2011, 10:12 PM

What kind of wheels are those? Diamond?

Any info would be appreciated:)

Yes, we scored two 15x10 and two 15x9 diamonds from a guy who ran them on a Civic. They're 4x100, so I had to convert the car backwards from 5 lug to 4 lug.

Is this the same car?

Believe it or not, yes. This is ScAries v3. :-)

Aries_Turbo

09-18-2011, 10:46 PM

insane pat. insane. :)

i love it.

brian

cordes

09-18-2011, 11:22 PM

That looks incredible. Did you post up any pics of the fascia etc. being constructed? I must have missed that.

2.216VTurbo

09-19-2011, 02:07 AM

Whatever happened to the humble little Blue K car?:evil: Thing is Pat as wicked as it looks you *have* to be fast now, they didn't expect it before:D

ScottD

09-19-2011, 08:39 AM

That looks incredible. Did you post up any pics of the fascia etc. being constructed? I must have missed that.

I don't think he has posted any construction pics. It's pretty neat how the fascia and the flares came together.

Pat

09-19-2011, 08:43 AM

That looks incredible. Did you post up any pics of the fascia etc. being constructed? I must have missed that.

I don't think so, but I will. Very simply, it's aluminum flashing from a construction site. Very thin, very light. I used some 1/4" steel round bar and made a frame behind it and just skinned it with the aluminum. Nothing fancy, but it's effective. I'm pretty sure I'll damage it eventually, but hopefully it will be after GRM.

Whatever happened to the humble little Blue K car?:evil: Thing is Pat as wicked as it looks you *have* to be fast now, they didn't expect it before:D

Yeah, the sleeper look of the car was definitely cool, but I'm really gunning to win GRM and a ratty looking blue K car is not going to do it, no matter how fast it is. It really is purpose built around the GRM Challenge. The concourse judges are all autox guys...car has to look the part to get the points I need. :-)

What's interesting is that this is really the first time I've tried to focus on building a car that could autocross. In the past, I've always built cars with drag racing in mind and it's ability to carve cones was secondary. This year, I've really spent most of my time trying to come up with how to make a K car outhandle a prepped Civic/CRX, Miata or E30 for little to no money. I'm hoping we're in the same ballpark now, which would be huge at the Challenge, since I've typically been able to be in the top 2 or 3 in the drag race. Last year at the Challenge, I was 3rd in the drags with an 11.6. This year, with just some tuning, the car just went 11.4 and I learned a ton about what I believe was my cork. That's now been addressed, plus I have a few other little tricks up my sleeve, so I'm feeling confident I can better my drag numbers from last year also.

We'll see what happens. Competition has stepped up every year I've been there, so there's always the unknown, but I'm feeling confident that we too have stepped it up a few notches and hopefully will have a car that is well executed, sorted and prepped to do what it needs to. My biggest concern is that it is a turbo dodge built with mostly stock stuff...it has to hold together just a little bit longer! :-)

2.216VTurbo

09-20-2011, 02:04 AM

Hold together eh? Have you *heard* what Barry does to a car on an Auto-X course:p?

Pat

09-24-2011, 04:46 PM

Getting closer....anyone guess the theme yet? Think FWD mopar, road course racer.

34192

bakes

09-24-2011, 09:19 PM

you should shave the rear door handles might save some small weigtht.

i like the paint job.

moparman76_69

09-25-2011, 08:41 AM

I know this one lol

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3355/3562502715_520c51e7a3_o.jpg

Hotlinked for your pleasure

PunKid

09-25-2011, 09:06 AM

WOW! I thought that car looked great last year, now its just unreal! Hope you win it this year, I can say that because Team External Combustion wont have a vehicle competing. Good Luck!

Directconnection

09-25-2011, 10:24 AM

Getting closer....anyone guess the theme yet? Think FWD mopar, road course racer.

34192

Le K-car?

Has a Renault look to it now!

bakes

09-25-2011, 11:43 AM

Le K-car?

Has a Renault look to it now! no no LE-cars have 3 lug nuts per wheel

Pat

09-25-2011, 06:27 PM

We have a winner! :-)

I know this one lol

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3355/3562502715_520c51e7a3_o.jpg

Hotlinked for your pleasure

moparman76_69

09-25-2011, 06:34 PM

So is it going to have the complete graphics package or just the base paint?

Pat

09-25-2011, 06:40 PM

So is it going to have the complete graphics package or just the base paint?

I'm not done yet! :-)

moparman76_69

09-25-2011, 08:01 PM

Cool it'll be badass with the Aries script across the door and the GRM number board on it.

168glhs1986

10-02-2011, 01:59 PM

Good luck this weekend.

moparman76_69

10-02-2011, 02:00 PM

Yeah we need pics of the completed paint.

Reaper1

10-02-2011, 09:53 PM

I can't wait to see this thing in person this weekend!

Pat

10-03-2011, 04:13 PM

Yeah we need pics of the completed paint.

Sorry...still scrambling to get the car finished, but here's a pic of the CAI I made with some aluminum flashing, the headlight bucket and some screen.

Pat

10-03-2011, 04:19 PM

Here's another cool series of pics. Last week, 12 months ago, 18 months ago.

Reeves

10-03-2011, 04:28 PM

Very cool ^^^

Aries_Turbo

10-03-2011, 05:52 PM

i cant believe how badass the front end of that thing looks. :)

brian

Pat

10-07-2011, 06:22 AM

Down in Florida and about to start geting ready for the autocross, which is today. Can't wait!

Here's a pic of the car as we're starting to get it ready.

"Top Fuel" Bender

10-07-2011, 07:09 AM

GOOD LUCK and have fun

ScottD

10-07-2011, 07:28 AM

Good luck. Keep me posted on results.

Vigo

10-07-2011, 07:57 AM

Good luck!!

mcsvt

10-07-2011, 08:02 AM

Good luck, can't wait for updates!!

contraption22

10-07-2011, 08:37 AM

Good luck man!

BadAssPerformance

10-07-2011, 08:58 AM

Down in Florida and about to start geting ready for the autocross, which is today. Can't wait!

Here's a pic of the car as we're starting to get it ready.

Looks awesome, good luck team! :clap:

Warren Stramer

10-07-2011, 09:24 AM

No $hit, that thing looks just GREAT! Pat, I'm very impressed. Kick some tail!

roachjuice

10-07-2011, 09:41 AM

holy crap this car has come a long way!!! nice work!!!! good luck in florida!!!

Shadow

10-07-2011, 09:58 AM

Very Slick! This is deff a cool project/endever, Good luck!!!!!

RoadWarrior222

10-07-2011, 10:11 AM

Awsom-nom-nom-nom

Have a great time and good luck!

(To me it looks like some of the BMWs from the Euro Saloon series, and also Fiats and Ladas... I guess any 3 box shape dammed and flared tends to go that way)

Aries_Turbo

10-07-2011, 10:23 AM

awesome!

bakes

10-07-2011, 10:59 AM

The more and more i look at pics of your car the more i want one like yours.

---------- Post added at 07:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 AM ----------

oh and best of luck !!!

cordes

10-07-2011, 11:44 AM

Good luck Pat!

Warren Stramer

10-07-2011, 11:55 AM

Please tell me there WILL be video of this event.

dodgeshadowchik

10-07-2011, 11:58 AM

Wow, that looks awesome!! :D

Best of luck to you.. can't wait for some updates!

turbovanman²

10-07-2011, 12:31 PM

Good luck, :nod:

So whats its name, "ponchus"? :confused:

Front looks like BSX, and the whole car looks like its on roids, :thumb:

omni_840

10-07-2011, 12:41 PM

Looking good with the decals on! Good Luck!!

csxtra

10-07-2011, 02:21 PM

Car looks great, all your hard work is very evident.

Best of luck; show the marque elitists what old american economy iron can do! (if anybody can do it, you and Barry are the guys) :thumb:

RoadWarrior222

10-07-2011, 02:56 PM

show the marque elitists what old american economy iron can do!

Yeah, try and finish ahead of at least one MX-5 :thumb:

BadAssPerformance

10-07-2011, 03:17 PM

Looks like the GRM ScAries made the TM News! ;)

RoadWarrior222

10-07-2011, 03:28 PM

That wasn't news it was a fluff piece, had to hunt this thread down to find out the skinny :p

moparman76_69

10-07-2011, 04:11 PM

That wasn't news it was a fluff piece, had to hunt this thread down to find out the skinny :p

True that, hey JT put this link in the article http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/challenge/updates/ He's got some stiff competition once again.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/media/challenge%20updates/Friday%20updates/b%20vorshlag%20bmw%20grm%202011%20challenge.jpg

BadAssPerformance

10-07-2011, 09:38 PM

LOL, tough crowd... did that on a coffe break at the day job ;)

Pat

10-07-2011, 11:29 PM

So far, 3rd in concours, 8th in autocross. Best I can figure we're sitting in 3rd overall before the drags tomorrow.

sdac guy

10-07-2011, 11:30 PM

How did I miss this thread all day until now?? Well I was a little busy today, at times.

Anyhow, ALL THE BEST to Team Scaries!!

Car looks the bomb!

Barry

cordes

10-07-2011, 11:55 PM

So far, 3rd in concours, 8th in autocross. Best I can figure we're sitting in 3rd overall before the drags tomorrow.

Wow, you're looking good.

Shadow

10-08-2011, 12:21 AM

Give em he!! bro!

Directconnection

10-08-2011, 12:51 AM

So far, 3rd in concours, 8th in autocross. Best I can figure we're sitting in 3rd overall before the drags tomorrow.

Hoping you'd school 'em hard in the autocross in 1st. But you can git 'em in the drags for hopefully a 1st place overall. Good luck man!

RoadWarrior222

10-08-2011, 03:29 PM

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/media/challenge%20updates/Saturday%20updates/joe%20jg%20and%20sdac.jpg

Hope it's drying up!

Man, what does that Beetle have in it?

moparman76_69

10-08-2011, 05:19 PM

True that, hey JT put this link in the article http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/challenge/updates/ He's got some stiff competition once again.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/media/challenge%20updates/Friday%20updates/b%20vorshlag%20bmw%20grm%202011%20challenge.jpg

looks like the m30 took 1st in the autocross and I'm guessing it did well in the concours also.

---------- Post added at 05:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 PM ----------

Hope it's drying up!

Man, what does that Beetle have in it?
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/media/challenge%20updates/Friday%20updates/nelson%20family%20racing%20prep.jpg

V-8

Polygon

10-08-2011, 05:47 PM

I just went through this entire thread and I have to say that is the coolest K-body I've ever seen! Love all the videos. This has me motivated to get my GTC to the auto-x at least once next year.

moparman76_69

10-09-2011, 01:51 AM

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/302437_2412402680036_1550367655_32575410_154465887 3_n.jpg?dl=1

5th over all but no drag results since they got partially rained out.

On a side note looks like the Hong Norrrth guys ditched their hondas for something better.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-knsp5ayepdw/To-6BTPu9mI/AAAAAAAAEFU/QgUgakfvFiw/s576/IMG_5535.jpg

168glhs1986

10-09-2011, 09:43 AM

This event is becomming huge and although your car is super sick already you may have to step up your game if you want the big prize. You wouldn't put 2 engines in next year and make it an 8 cylinder One engine running front wheels and the other mid engine mount running the rear wheels. I can only ask myself...why wouldn't you?

Tizz102

10-09-2011, 10:23 AM

Had a great time! Here's a few pics that I grabbed with my phone! Enjoy!! :nod:

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee384/Tizz102/20111006174949.jpg
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee384/Tizz102/20111007083222.jpg
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee384/Tizz102/20111007090010.jpg
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee384/Tizz102/20111007100618.jpg
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee384/Tizz102/20111007104737.jpg
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee384/Tizz102/20111007104818.jpg

cordes

10-09-2011, 10:47 AM

Wow. 5th with no drags is a pretty big accomplishment. I bet the drag racing would have moved you up big time.

BadAssPerformance

10-09-2011, 11:11 AM

Wow. 5th with no drags is a pretty big accomplishment. I bet the drag racing would have moved you up big time.

+1 :clap: and +1 :thumb: Go TEAM SDAC! :hail:

Cool there is a GLH there too!

Directconnection

10-09-2011, 12:14 PM

Wow. 5th with no drags is a pretty big accomplishment. I bet the drag racing would have moved you up big time.

That's BS that they won't fit in the drags! Yet, they will account a "concours" w/no actual performance into the mix.

Still awesome to make it a 5th though!

moparman76_69

10-09-2011, 12:30 PM

The Nelson's VW ripped a 10.5 and Pat ran an 11 before the rain. I'm pretty sure the VW would've taken 1st overall if the drags would've counted. That is unless Pat ran it til she blew and could run a mid 10 also.

Pat

10-09-2011, 11:34 PM

Hey everyone...back home in one piece. Tired, very proud of the car, but a bit disappointed with where we landed with the overall results. We ended up 6th, which was definitely not the goal.

Here's a quick version, then I'll fill in details tomorrow. Car was very well received by competitors and GRM staff. Concours judging went very well and it placed higher than any other car we've brought down there. They got the look and they liked it. The flares were a hit. :-)

Autocross: We did OK. Barry made four passes that in the 47's until we got the magic figured out, then he did a 45.6 on his last pass. It was unfortunate that he didn't have another run or two he could make. He felt he could get it in the 44's, which would have placed us much better in the autox, but we used our runs up.

Drag race: Rain came in, they dried out one lane. Andy Nelson gets loose at the end and goes 10.58. I'm the 2nd car so once I see this, I know that I'm fighting for 2nd place overall. I think the ScAries has a 10 in it, but for me to beat Andy I had to at least match his number (we concours'd much higher than he did) and a 10.5 is not happening with that engine combo. I ran the same tune I ran last time out where it went 11.47, but with the better intercooler and the divorced downpipe and a total of 40 lbs more weight (car now weighs 2230 without driver). It felt like a great pass until about 3/4 track when it started breaking up badly. A/F was fine so I stayed in it since I thought I might only get one pass. Despite that, and in horrible weather conditions, it went 11.49 @ 117. Raced to the pits, swapped fresh plugs and closed the gap some, then it started to rain.

Now, here's where it got interesting. The four that I felt had a shot at the win all made drag passes and we all conceeded that Andy should get the overall win. There were other cars that could have moved up a bit here or there I'm sure, but none that had a remote chance of winning the event. GRM ran the numbers which showed Andy winning, ScAries in 2nd by a fair margin. But in the end, they decided not to use the drag results since not everyone got a pass. Disappointing, but that's racing.

Even at that point, I thought I was in 3rd without the drags. I had calculated out the points but I assumed the autox was worth half of the performance part of the scoring system, which would have made the assumption that the concours would be worth more of a percentage of my overall points total. That's not how they scored it without the drags. Not running the drags essentially doubled the value of the autox, which hurt us. We ended up 6th overall.

On the bright side, they are doing a feature on the car, I was video interviewed by GRM and ebay motors about the car which was cool. We also won top finishing team (SDAC), Best Visual Package, 3rd in concours and an award that I was really honored to get, the Challengers Choice award. It's basically a popular vote of all competitors of which car they liked the most. I'm very proud of that one.

I'm pretty tired and need to get some rest. Teri took a ton of pictures and videos which we'll get posted soon.