Roll cage and rear suspension (pictures)

[cams1021]

The cage started out as 50' of 1-3/4", .120 HREW tubing. Bent everything by hand. It is welded to 6x6 1/8" floor plates in the car.

The rear suspension.. boxed the entire rear axle, boxed the panhard bar bracket, tubular adjustable panhard bar with heim joints, bent a 7/8" .156 wall DOM (22mm) rear swaybar, adjustable end links fastened to tubular crossmember. Also, not pictured is a front k-member brace. Its 7/8" tubing welded across in front of the bobble strut.

I never though to use DOM tubing for a swaybar, but my instructor has been using them on his dirt oval cars for years and says they work well and last a long time.

Anyway, on to the pics:

http://tinypic.com/14m43lx.jpg

http://tinypic.com/14m442d.jpg

http://tinypic.com/14m44k1.jpg

http://tinypic.com/14m44zs.jpg

http://tinypic.com/14m457q.jpg

http://tinypic.com/14m47b9.jpg

http://tinypic.com/14m47ly.jpg

http://tinypic.com/14m48cz.jpg

I left the swaybar end links long on purpose. Once I get my springs in I will trim them to fit. They swing forward under compression and there is zero binding.

:thumb:

[Holley]

Looks great :) will you be adding tubing to the front (loop around the top of the windshield etc), or sticking with just the two diagonals running in front of the seats?

I'm going to be getting a local place (www.powernotpaint.co.uk) to make up a cage for me, but am giving the extent / shape alot of thought ... got to do alot of floor repair etc first though, so thats about a year away at my current rate of progress, lol.

[cams1021]

Looks great :) will you be adding tubing to the front (loop around the top of the windshield etc), or sticking with just the two diagonals running in front of the seats?

I'm going to be getting a local place (www.powernotpaint.co.uk) to make up a cage for me, but am giving the extent / shape alot of thought ... got to do alot of floor repair etc first though, so thats about a year away at my current rate of progress, lol.


Id like to, but I am running out of time here at school. I graduate in a week. If I had access for longer, I would build much more elaborate stuff

[85shelbycharger]

Wow, looks really good Cam!

[t3rse]

how did you "bend everything by hand"?

[cams1021]

how did you "bend everything by hand"?



I work out alot.


I mean I used a manual tubing bender as opposed to a hydraulic one

[cams1021]

Wow, looks really good Cam!


Thanks man. One more week and Im headed out of PA :(

I enjoyed my stay here - its a nice place :)

[85shelbycharger]

Thanks man. One more week and Im headed out of PA :(

I enjoyed my stay here - its a nice place :)

Time flies when you're havin fun huh? haha
Well it was a pleasure gettin to meet you buddy, keep in touch. Best of luck in the future as well! :thumb:

[cams1021]

Time flies when you're havin fun huh? haha
Well it was a pleasure gettin to meet you buddy, keep in touch. Best of luck in the future as well! :thumb:


You too man. Keep me updated with your projects and I'll do the same.

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks man. One more week and Im headed out of PA :(

I enjoyed my stay here - its a nice place :)

my Shadow is looking good, nice work :thumb:

where ya heading?

[cams1021]

my Shadow is looking good, nice work :thumb:

where ya heading?

Thanks.

Back home to MA. Done with school for now, so I am going to find a job and start paying some bills.

[BadAssPerformance]

Gotcha... welcome to the real world! :thumb:

[Aries_Turbo]

looks GREAT! the only thing id add (and youd prolly do if you had more time) is a little bit more triangulation out back. :) looks awesome though. Love the swaybar. :)

Brian

[1985ShlbyChrger]

Where'd you go to school at in PA?

[cams1021]

Where'd you go to school at in PA?


Wyotech in Blairsville, PA... about an hour east of P-burgh

[1985ShlbyChrger]

Ok. my neighbor went to Wyotech, I'm going to UTI.

[iniviate]

FWIW - HREW is pipe not tube and has no structural rating.

[t3rse]

FWIW - HREW is pipe not tube and has no structural rating.

This isn't exactly the case...
It's true that DOM tubing is stronger, thus it takes less of it to make a sound structure.
HREW tubing is strong enough for a cage, provided the car is light enough and the cage is thick enough and has a large enough diameter. HREW tubing at the correct diameter and thickness is as strong as thinner smaller diameter DOM tubing (hence you can use HREW in light cars). Thus the DOM cage will weigh less. DOM tubing is actually made using a similar process, it is just refined to be stronger with tighter tolerances. Read NASA rules, it gives a good guidline to safe diameter/thicknesses of different tubing types for different vehicle weights (SCCA's rally rules are a little more stringent but give a good safety buffer if you are so inclined).

[Holley]

Read NASA rules
I don't think most of us are building cars quick enough to qualify for those ...

[iniviate]

This isn't exactly the case...
It's true that DOM tubing is stronger, thus it takes less of it to make a sound structure.
HREW tubing is strong enough for a cage, provided the car is light enough and the cage is thick enough and has a large enough diameter. HREW tubing at the correct diameter and thickness is as strong as thinner smaller diameter DOM tubing (hence you can use HREW in light cars). Thus the DOM cage will weigh less. DOM tubing is actually made using a similar process, it is just refined to be stronger with tighter tolerances. Read NASA rules, it gives a good guidline to safe diameter/thicknesses of different tubing types for different vehicle weights (SCCA's rally rules are a little more stringent but give a good safety buffer if you are so inclined).


i'm not going to claim to be an expert on metals. however, i thought that HREW was made with a seam that was welded up, there as DOM was seamless, as it's "drawn over mandrel"

anyway, i do agree.... an HREW cage would be heavier, but just fine for most vehicles. i think the design is way more important than the material selected.

since i'm talking about design.... i would have probably made the rear bars one solid piece going to the floor. the hoop would come straight down instead of the bend right before the floor, and the door bars wouldnt have a bend right before the floor. i think he was probably trying to get his mounting points to a solid part of the unibody, so maybe some of these aren't viable options. i would probably add some gussets though.

[BadAssPerformance]

i'm not going to claim to be an expert on metals. however, i thought that HREW was made with a seam that was welded up, there as DOM was seamless, as it's "drawn over mandrel"


Not sure about HREW but DOM is a welded seam... welded seam tube is easy to see where the seam was welded

[t3rse]

Hot Rolled Electric Welded = HREW
Drawn Over Mandrel = DOM
Electric Resistance Welded = ERW

http://www.protofab.com/tubing.htm

DOM is basically refined ERW, at least from everything i've read...with higher quality ingredients...


As for NASA, I'm not talking about space
http://www.nasaracing.net/

[Holley]

Ah, so its like an American version of the FIA ... that makes more sense, I thought you were planning to blast off or something :D

[cams1021]

i'm not going to claim to be an expert on metals. however, i thought that HREW was made with a seam that was welded up, there as DOM was seamless, as it's "drawn over mandrel"

anyway, i do agree.... an HREW cage would be heavier, but just fine for most vehicles. i think the design is way more important than the material selected.

since i'm talking about design.... i would have probably made the rear bars one solid piece going to the floor. the hoop would come straight down instead of the bend right before the floor, and the door bars wouldnt have a bend right before the floor. i think he was probably trying to get his mounting points to a solid part of the unibody, so maybe some of these aren't viable options. i would probably add some gussets though.

You may want to check some notes. HREW is an extremely popular choice for tubular structures in cars. Its not pipe. Pipe is plumbing equipment sized by its I.D. - it has no structural purpose. HREW is tubing sized by its O.D.


Pound for pound, HREW and DOM is very, very similar. DOM is stronger than HREW, though. Chromoly size for size weighs the same as DOM, but is stronger allowing thinner wall thickness. Most sanctioning bodies require TIG welding chromoly tube structures... and I haven't quite mastered TIG welding inside a car, upside down, with my foot on a pedal on the dash or something.

The design of the cage had a lot of criteria to include... It was the first time I had ever done it, so it took me a while to get everything right. If you have never made tube structures, you may not be familiar with all the technicalities with bend lines, offset lines, the notches that have to be correct in multiple dimensions.. etc. In other words.. It took me a long time to make it. And I didn't have much time in class.

The door bars have the bend to clear the seats. They also clear the E-brake, and allow my 6'5'' self to enter/exit the car.

The rear "strut" brace was made from a three piece sleeve. The wall thickness is over .240". I made a joint for the rear down bars on the brace to break up the long distance they span. Long tubing runs = deflection.

The lower half of the down bars are fastened to a 2"x3"x.120" cross member between the inverted hat channels. All the other tubing is welded to 6"x6"x.125" floor plates that are welded to the floor in specific structural areas.

Overall the cage does lack triangulation in some spots, but I didn't have time to make it exactly the way I wanted. I could've gone nuts with tubing in there but I wanted to keep it light.

[BadAssPerformance]

Yep, upside-down TIG is a B----!

You got waaaay more triangulation than a standard 6-pt requires, heck you have more strength in back than the 10-pt S&W kit I just put in my Z.

[DaveSkrab]

Hey Cams,
Congrats! and good luck in your future. I'm a 2003 Blairsville Graduate. I feel like I'm doing pretty good and the training definately gave me a leg up on the high school apprentice.

BTW How much are people spending on cages in kit form and for installation?

Thanks,
Dave Skrab

[cordes]

Nice work for sure. How much do you weigh? We are about the same height, but I think that my rear would be sitting on top of the cage due to my width. I might just fit snuggly which is the point of the whole thing though.

[Garret]

hey JT what did that 10 point cage weight in at?

[BadAssPerformance]

hey JT what did that 10 point cage weight in at?

Chrome Moly... just under 100lbs

[Garret]

Cool thanks

[iniviate]

did some more research...

i'm sorry, i was incorrect in bashing HREW tube..... my bad.

[cams1021]

Nice work for sure. How much do you weigh? We are about the same height, but I think that my rear would be sitting on top of the cage due to my width. I might just fit snuggly which is the point of the whole thing though.


I am about 240 lbs. I plan on installing aluminum seats, that will drop the driver/passenger down about 2". The harness bar was installed with that in mind.