Equal length tube v log manifold test.

[cobra2411]

From Honda Tech, but still cool... BIG Gains from the Equal Length tube manifold... Like 20% gain... :D

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=925312

[BadAssPerformance]

Good info!

I think that link was linked in either Aaron Miller's tube header thread (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32354) or the subsequent tube header vs. ported stocker epic argument thread (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34601) <== make sure you have a six pack handy before clicking that link! ;)

And hopefully soon I can get the group buy thing moving again :o

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34429

[turbovanman²]

Get on it JT, screw the testing, just build it, :mad:

[bakes]

Get on it JT, screw the testing, just build it, :mad:

Ya what he said:amen:

[risen]

Lol @ max torque on that graph.

[turbovanman²]

Lol @ max torque on that graph.

Awww, why be hatin, :p

[turboshad]

Lol @ max torque on that graph.

No LOL @ max RPM

[risen]

Awww, why be hatin, :p

Only because I have a 25 year old car that makes more torque than that in factory form. :)

No LOL @ max RPM
I had a integra r that would gladly run to 8500, and I don't remember where the limiter was set. I don't know why they would choose to stop at 8k on a engine that has nearly the same bottom end, iiirc.

[contraption22]

Ya gotta wonder how different the results would be on an engine that makes twice the torque at half the rpm, like ours do.

[GLHNSLHT2]

shouldn't of tuned it it looks like, the gains were higher "before tuning" WTF???? After having a tube header on my 8v car I'm a sole believer in them. Just need to be out of the right materials. My 2.5 would spool the S60 turbo quicker than a VNT with the header on it.

[zin]

I'll always believe a properly built/tuned header (tube or not) will perform the best. It's just that packaging and building said beast is a plumber's dream!

Mike

[cordes]

Didn't we decide that the MP long tube header for the NA cars would be the most devastatingly effective one to use? So long as we are all standing under the TU tent that is what I shall wield.

Seriously though, that shows that there are gains to be had in the real world. Of course there are few of us who wouldn't think that the efficiency picked up from an equal length tube setup wouldn't do anything for power.

[zin]

Seriously though, that shows that there are gains to be had in the real world. Of course there are few of us who wouldn't think that the efficiency picked up from an equal length tube setup wouldn't do anything for power.

The gains come more from tuning the length and maybe more importantly, selecting the proper dia of tube so the velocity is correct. Since length has more to do with a tuned frequency than anything else, you could choose to make the tubes unequal, but still tuned via fractional lengths of the chosen frequency/wavelength.

In the end, I think we are arguing about a stock Mitsu vs. a T3/T4 hybrid, almost anything will be better than stock.

Lets not forget too that what works out on paper is rarely the pinnacle of design, so testing isn't a bad thing, IF it doesn't stall production... And in this case, it would likely be better to put a few pieces out there in the hands of those deemed best suited to determine the strengths and weaknesses of an item and adjust the production piece accordingly. This has been my experience with product development anyway... If you wait for the perfect product, it will never be produced!

Mike

[cordes]

The gains come more from tuning the length and maybe more importantly, selecting the proper dia of tube so the velocity is correct. Since length has more to do with a tuned frequency than anything else, you could choose to make the tubes unequal, but still tuned via fractional lengths of the chosen frequency/wavelength.

In the end, I think we are arguing about a stock Mitsu vs. a T3/T4 hybrid, almost anything will be better than stock.

Lets not forget too that what works out on paper is rarely the pinnacle of design, so testing isn't a bad thing, IF it doesn't stall production... And in this case, it would likely be better to put a few pieces out there in the hands of those deemed best suited to determine the strengths and weaknesses of an item and adjust the production piece accordingly. This has been my experience with product development anyway... If you wait for the perfect product, it will never be produced!

Mike

You're obviously a man for quotes, so here is one for you.

A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
George S. Patton

[Shadow]

Good info!
tube header vs. ported stocker epic argument thread[/URL] <== make sure you have a six pack handy before clicking that link! ;)

That was a fun thread, and in the typical TD fashion, 95% missinformation! lol

Although, if you can read between the lines, there's a lot of real Good info contained within it! ;)

Would have been even funnier "IF" I would have posted my results of the F4 cam in the Charger. Everyone thinks my ported stocker is Done at 400WHP and the car picks up 30+whp with a cam.....on less boost.....:thumb:
(what would really add to the confusion is that I would still say the header if way more efficient! lol) :lol:

[zin]

You're obviously a man for quotes, so here is one for you.

A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
George S. Patton

LOVE IT!!! Mostly because the guy who said it, DID IT!! And to great success!

Mike

[86seeS]

www.neukin.com is where he got the manifold the its out of indiana. ive talked to them a few times about making a TM header they just need a car to mock it up on he said and he could do them said it would be a few months to make them. go to the site and check them out headers are all life time warranty if they crack they just send you a new one

[GLHNSLHT2]

www.neukin.com is where he got the manifold the its out of indiana.

He who?? and can you prood read that, the last 5 words don't make any sense.


ive talked to them a few times about making a TM header they just need a car to mock it up on he said and he could do them said it would be a few months to make them. go to the site and check them out headers are all life time warranty if they crack they just send you a new one

So take your car there and get us a header :) Just make sure it's a divided PULSE header. He had divided headers but they're not pulse ones unless honda's have a different firing order.

[86seeS]

[QUOTE=GLHNSLHT2;689966]He who?? and can you prood read that, the last 5 words don't make any sense. QUOTE]

sorry the header in the link is a neukin header and its made in indiana

[risen]

He who?? and can you prood read that, the last 5 words don't make any sense.

You mean 'proof read' right?

:D

The irony in that typo was just too great for me to ignore.

[86seeS]

lol ya i cought that

[GLHNSLHT2]

You mean 'proof read' right?

:D

The irony in that typo was just too great for me to ignore.

LOL! yea :)

[Mopar318]

www.neukin.com is where he got the manifold the its out of indiana. ive talked to them a few times about making a TM header they just need a car to mock it up on he said and he could do them said it would be a few months to make them. go to the site and check them out headers are all life time warranty if they crack they just send you a new one

Neukin is in fort wayne.:lol:

[86seeS]

ya i talked to him at winged worrior this year about a header

[88C/S]

Was there not a group buy a couple of years ago for tube headers. I know I saw one that JT built on another forum. And the estimated price then seemed competitive with what I saw at Neukin's website.

[turbovanman²]

Was there not a group buy a couple of years ago for tube headers. I know I saw one that JT built on another forum. And the estimated price then seemed competitive with what I saw at Neukin's website.

Its still on, JT hasn't finished them yet-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34429

[spoolinhard]

Can I play in the tube header show off thread?

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y90/Spoolinhard/100_0610-1.jpg

probably not since its all wrapped up

[86seeS]

still looks great even all wraped up

[GLHNSLHT2]

Can I play in the tube header show off thread?

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y90/Spoolinhard/100_0610-1.jpg

probably not since its all wrapped up


What turbo is that?

[spoolinhard]

What turbo is that?

Garrett T4

[turbovanman²]

What are you running for the turbo oil line, looks like rubber hose, :confused: :eyebrows:

[spoolinhard]

It be a steel line.

[Shadow]

Looks like a .58 A/R O trim turbine. If so, it should spool OK.

[4cefedomni]

How do the turbo seals like it being tilted up like that? I've always read to have the turbos sitting horizontal or they will leak oil out the turbine seal.

[spoolinhard]

Looks like a .58 A/R O trim turbine. If so, it should spool OK.
I believe its a .60 A/R on comp. side. .81 on exhaust.


How do the turbo seals like it being tilted up like that? I've always read to have the turbos sitting horizontal or they will leak oil out the turbine seal.
Car has been idled, and yard driven, I have yet to have a leak. I will find out when I get my cal back.

[Shadow]

How do the turbo seals like it being tilted up like that? I've always read to have the turbos sitting horizontal or they will leak oil out the turbine seal.

I was told the same thing and have always kept them horizontal. Although, in recent years I've seen more and more mounted slightly off. As long as your not pushing 45deg! lol

[spoolinhard]

I did it for l body clearance. The tilt allowed me to use the exhaust tunnel without cutting the crap out of my firewall.

[Shadow]

I did it for l body clearance. The tilt allowed me to use the exhaust tunnel without cutting the crap out of my firewall.

I've also seen this done on some of the SRT-4 tubular header kits. FWIW we installed one a couple years back with a 60-1 and I checked it this spring and it was fine.

[Vigo]

what is the advantage of the equal length if the only notable difference is the HP?

^ My favorite quote from the Honda thread. :lol:


winged worrior

Are you just goading us now? :p

[spoolinhard]

I've also seen this done on some of the SRT-4 tubular header kits. FWIW we installed one a couple years back with a 60-1 and I checked it this spring and it was fine.

thats good to know!