megasquirt????

[me235]

Is it really worth it to run megasquirt, or is it just as efficient to run out stock computers and tune them with d-cal or zchem, or buy from shelgame or another tuner?? ive been looking into going with megasquirt but it seems to be harder than its worth or am i just looking to in depth into it??:confused::confused2:

If i went with the megasquirt route what all do i need?

Thanks in advance:hail:

[turbovanman²]

I'd say for a street car slash strip duty, stay with an Ostrich, its just as good as a standalone, cheaper and easier but nothing is any good if you don't know what your doing.

[me235]

Is the stock comp good enough to support some power though? I'm gopin to run 25+ psi on this new motor when I get or together.. I gues I'm just a little Leary cause I always melted mahles in my old motor on 17 psi... Just don't wanna blow up this motor every race day like my old one, I have no problem getting it shop tuned, just wanting to know which system is the best bet

[turbovanman²]

The stock computer is very powerful and like I said above, just as good as a true standalone. Tuning it can be a bit tricky as its not the same parameters per say as a true standalone but there is lots of info here on what to tweak.

[me235]

Ok so alls i really need to tune the stocker is dcal and a EPROM burner? Do they make rewritable chips or do I just need a bunch to start with? Also do the cheaper EPROM burners on eBay work??

[turbovanman²]

Check the KC, has all the info you need.

Yes, the Ebay ones work but the best burner is the Moates burner, :thumb:

[me235]

May be a stupid question but wats KC??

[wallace]

I'd say for a street car slash strip duty, stay with an Ostrich, its just as good as a standalone, cheaper and easier but nothing is any good if you don't know what your doing.

Does the ostrich negate the need for the eprom burner? I read the description on the webpage and that's what it sounded like to me. It allows you to "flash" a new tune without the UV light and a burner and all that right?

[turbovanman²]

May be a stupid question but wats KC??

Yes, that's a stupid question, :0

See the flashing Knowledge Center top right of the screen, under the vendor banners- :eyebrows:




Does the ostrich negate the need for the eprom burner? I read the description on the webpage and that's what it sounded like to me. It allows you to "flash" a new tune without the UV light and a burner and all that right?

Correct, if you run an Ostrich, which makes it a standalone, you don't need chips, burners etc.

No, the Ostrich is hooked up to our engine computer like a chip, you then hook up a laptop and use Dcal or MPtuner, then change your cal with a stroke of your fingers.

[me235]

Yea about 5 min after I posted that I realized what KC was, my bad lol, so a ostrich plugs in in place of the chip and allows you to hook into it in the car and remap without removing the chip?

[turbovanman²]

Yea about 5 min after I posted that I realized what KC was, my bad lol, so a ostrich plugs in in place of the chip and allows you to hook into it in the car and remap without removing the chip?

Close enough but yes.

[me235]

so the only real benefit of ostrich is the fact you dont have to remove the chip every time you want to re tune your car??

[badandy]

What are you working on?

Ostrich isn't the promised land for some. My experiences are less than stellar as with a SMEC the Ostrich will drain your battery. For a SMEC I would go with a remote ZIF socket and burn your own chips. This way you don't have to unplug your SMEC power wire when you leave the car sitting for more than a day or so. The only issue here is that there still aren't any good viable options for a waterproof housing for the remote mount ZIF sockets.

For LM cars you are set! No worries with battery drain and the whole shooting match stays nice and dry in the cabin :)

Tuning the stock computer using MPTuner and the like is okay but IMO it's not as straight forward as some may lead you to believe. It's not that you will screw anything up per say...but more that it takes a bit of learning and studying to get comfortable with what you are doing. For me this was mostly because the tables are not appropriately named for HP tuning. Once you get accustomed to what tables are called and what they do you can concentrate on what you should do. After that it's pretty simple.

To date I still am unimpressed with the SMEC cals and all those going forward. The LM cals just seem to be really good to spot on while the SMEC cars just don't seem to respond as well...for whatever reason.

There are lots of pluses to Megasquirt. One of them (although tedious) is replacing that 20 + year old wiring with fresh stuff. This is a concern for me as my car gets older. Also there is a huge community for Megasquirt enthusiasts. You can expand Megasquirt as your skills increase and go distributor-less if you like with a crank trigger and even coil on plug!...but most of all you can run wideband directly to the unit.

You will get a lot of nay sayers that will tell you to stay with stock stuff and give some pretty good reasons why. My advice is to actually talk to some guys that have megasquirt and are successful with it. Ask them what they like and what they don't and then weigh the pros/vs. cons.

It's your call as far as how in depth you want to go with your car. Do you want to be a back yard tuner or do you want something a little bit more professional? Will you be good with the limited expandability of tuning factory stuff or will you want future expandability?

Brian in 3-2-1....lol

[wallace]

Does the Ostrich have the same problem with a SBEC as well? The draining the battery issue? Why does it do that? Seems like there should be some way of fixing that.

[ShelGame]

Ostrich will not work with the SBEC as-is, you need an adapter. The chip used in the SBEC has a built-in address latch (I won't explain what that does, just trust me). The Ostrich doesn't have any hardware to mimic the latch. The adapter board has a latch chip on it so that you can use the Ostrich (or any other 'standard' EPROM type chip) with the SBEC.

[ShelGame]

Tuning the stock computer using MPTuner and the like is okay but IMO it's not as straight forward as some may lead you to believe. It's not that you will screw anything up per say...but more that it takes a bit of learning and studying to get comfortable with what you are doing. For me this was mostly because the tables are not appropriately named for HP tuning. Once you get accustomed to what tables are called and what they do you can concentrate on what you should do. After that it's pretty simple.

How do you mean? How could they be re-named/grouped to be easier? I'm open to suggestions...


To date I still am unimpressed with the SMEC cals and all those going forward. The LM cals just seem to be really good to spot on while the SMEC cars just don't seem to respond as well...for whatever reason.

Which SMEC cals? Have you tried the latest Turbonator (V16.2)? The problem I have with the LM is the processing power. The processor doesn't even have a built-in divide function. That's why the RPM signals (and others) are inverted. To me, that makes it harder to tune than the SMEC/SBEC where all of the RPM signals are scaled normally.I would agree that the SMEC/SBEC have more adaptive controls. Those can make it more difficult to tune. But, they can be turned off for tuning and back on when finished.

I agree, even though we have made a lot of progress, it's still difficult to get a handle on all of the values that can be tuned in a SMEC - especailly if you're new to it. I wonder how much interest there would be in a race-only type of stand-alone code for the SMEC/SBEC? Something that doesn't have the adaptives, is 3D based, no emissions, etc.

Does MS have the capability to run Cruise Control? What about A/C compensation? Emissions?

[turbovanman²]

What are you working on?

Ostrich isn't the promised land for some. My experiences are less than stellar as with a SMEC the Ostrich will drain your battery. For a SMEC I would go with a remote ZIF socket and burn your own chips. This way you don't have to unplug your SMEC power wire when you leave the car sitting for more than a day or so. The only issue here is that there still aren't any good viable options for a waterproof housing for the remote mount ZIF sockets.

For LM cars you are set! No worries with battery drain and the whole shooting match stays nice and dry in the cabin :)

Tuning the stock computer using MPTuner and the like is okay but IMO it's not as straight forward as some may lead you to believe. It's not that you will screw anything up per say...but more that it takes a bit of learning and studying to get comfortable with what you are doing. For me this was mostly because the tables are not appropriately named for HP tuning. Once you get accustomed to what tables are called and what they do you can concentrate on what you should do. After that it's pretty simple.

To date I still am unimpressed with the SMEC cals and all those going forward. The LM cals just seem to be really good to spot on while the SMEC cars just don't seem to respond as well...for whatever reason.

There are lots of pluses to Megasquirt. One of them (although tedious) is replacing that 20 + year old wiring with fresh stuff. This is a concern for me as my car gets older. Also there is a huge community for Megasquirt enthusiasts. You can expand Megasquirt as your skills increase and go distributor-less if you like with a crank trigger and even coil on plug!...but most of all you can run wideband directly to the unit.

You will get a lot of nay sayers that will tell you to stay with stock stuff and give some pretty good reasons why. My advice is to actually talk to some guys that have megasquirt and are successful with it. Ask them what they like and what they don't and then weigh the pros/vs. cons.

It's your call as far as how in depth you want to go with your car. Do you want to be a back yard tuner or do you want something a little bit more professional? Will you be good with the limited expandability of tuning factory stuff or will you want future expandability?

Brian in 3-2-1....lol

No idea on the battery drain, never experienced it and neither has my friends who run one.

As for tuning, not sure I understand you? We have access to the same parameters as all the other chip guys so your saying that TU and FWD, ND cals suck balls too? ;)

We have enough info on here that with some practice, you can tweak your own cal or have someone else do it for you, plus if your ever stuck, just call someone or post up. Try that with some other standalones, :thumb:


so the only real benefit of ostrich is the fact you dont have to remove the chip every time you want to re tune your car??

Yes, and you can change on the fly, so say your at the track and your lean on the top, stroke of a few keys, you just added fuel.


Ostrich will not work with the SBEC as-is, you need an adapter. The chip used in the SBEC has a built-in address latch (I won't explain what that does, just trust me). The Ostrich doesn't have any hardware to mimic the latch. The adapter board has a latch chip on it so that you can use the Ostrich (or any other 'standard' EPROM type chip) with the SBEC.

Yeah, I think Quantam sells them, :thumb:

[Aries_Turbo]

Brian in 3-2-1....lol

hehe, here i am. :)

MS has faster processing power than the stock ecu on the stock code. not fast enough though that youll see differences in AFR or timing advance when they are tuned to the values you are looking for.

stock ecu has far superior knock detection scheme than a MS.

If i could program MCU code, id have a completed knock box to remove that negative of the MS. right now i have a half finished knock box. :)

i like them both. i can tune them both and have worked with both.

for me, im sticking with my LM's. i can tune it pretty darn good and i like the safeguard of the knock detection scheme.

for my motorcycle... it may get a MS once i get sick of the carbs lol.

Brian

[risen]

If i could program MCU code, id have a completed knock box to remove that negative of the MS. right now i have a half finished knock box. :)

Should I just try and tackle the code side? Maybe write what I think makes a good base and we can have frank have his say after?



i like them both. i can tune them both and have worked with both.

for me, im sticking with my LM's. i can tune it pretty darn good and i like the safeguard of the knock detection scheme.

for my motorcycle... it may get a MS once i get sick of the carbs lol.

Brian

Each system has it's pluses and minuses. I think eventually megasquirt will be (essentially) all things for all people but it's definitely not at the moment. Of the 3 things Rob mentioned emissions is likely the only one you could tune for. You'd probably have to play games with the timing table or use the table switching features for ac.

I think tuning is all the same. I've messed with EEC-iv and it's more advanced but the same concepts still apply. There's a huge learning curve with all this stuff i don't think any one EMS helps to shorten it greatly.

[badandy]

How do you mean? How could they be re-named/grouped to be easier? I'm open to suggestions...

I'm speaking from the standpoint of a newbie...not now. I understand what tables do what now...but in the beginning when I was studying I didn't always understand why I would use pumping efficiency one moment (or why it was named that) or that other table (I can't even remember what it is called!) the next. I'm speaking clearly from the stance of when I very 1st looked at it. granted it's been about a year since I calibrated anything.


Which SMEC cals? Have you tried the latest Turbonator (V16.2)? The problem I have with the LM is the processing power. The processor doesn't even have a built-in divide function. That's why the RPM signals (and others) are inverted. To me, that makes it harder to tune than the SMEC/SBEC where all of the RPM signals are scaled normally.I would agree that the SMEC/SBEC have more adaptive controls. Those can make it more difficult to tune. But, they can be turned off for tuning and back on when finished.

Your new cals are good no doubt and they keep getting better...but out of the box and early on the LM cals totally had the SMEC cals whooped! I have not tried turning adaptives off to tune and then back on. How is that done? Maybe that would help quite a bit!


I agree, even though we have made a lot of progress, it's still difficult to get a handle on all of the values that can be tuned in a SMEC - especailly if you're new to it. I wonder how much interest there would be in a race-only type of stand-alone code for the SMEC/SBEC? Something that doesn't have the adaptives, is 3D based, no emissions, etc.

Does MS have the capability to run Cruise Control? What about A/C compensation? Emissions?

I would 100% be interested in a stripped down cal. I don't drive the car everyday and I just would like something trimmed down with all I need for performance and the car still be street driveable.

I don't know about those features with MS as I'm not interested in them personally.

[badandy]

No idea on the battery drain, never experienced it and neither has my friends who run one.

...and neither did I when I drove my car everyday. Trust me I've tested it...it's there!


As for tuning, not sure I understand you? We have access to the same parameters as all the other chip guys so your saying that TU and FWD, ND cals suck balls too? ;)

Now there you go trying to put words in my mouth...lol...no, I'm not saying that at all. Simon...I rememebr when you first started and how confused you were...because I remember being there myself. I had about a year head start on you if you remember correctly. I had some good results with my tuning...and then I had some WTF moments. I'll give it another good shot once I know everything is fresh and ready to rock to give it a fair shot. Honestly the cals have come a long way in the past 6 months.


We have enough info on here that with some practice, you can tweak your own cal or have someone else do it for you, plus if your ever stuck, just call someone or post up. Try that with some other standalones, :thumb:

Very true...which is what I did like 2 years ago now. :thumb:


Yes, and you can change on the fly, so say your at the track and your lean on the top, stroke of a few keys, you just added fuel.

Okay...so if you are a newbie (pretend okay) then would you know which table to adjust?


Yeah, I think Quantam sells them, :thumb:

Spoken a lot with him...good dude and killer smart :hail:

[turbovanman²]

...and neither did I when I drove my car everyday. Trust me I've tested it...it's there!


Do I have to trust you? :eyebrows:



Now there you go trying to put words in my mouth...lol...no, I'm not saying that at all. Simon...I rememebr when you first started and how confused you were...because I remember being there myself. I had about a year head start on you if you remember correctly. I had some good results with my tuning...and then I had some WTF moments. I'll give it another good shot once I know everything is fresh and ready to rock to give it a fair shot. Honestly the cals have come a long way in the past 6 months.

You said this--


To date I still am unimpressed with the SMEC cals and all those going forward

Hence my reply. :D

And yeah, I've said it twice now, there is a steep learning curve, I was confused but once you get into it, its not that hard plus you can call me, or Brian or post up. Brian helped me-which talking to someone made it so simple and I've paid it forward a few times too.



Okay...so if you are a newbie (pretend okay) then would you know which table to adjust?


See above and see the KC articles, :p

[badandy]

Do I have to trust you? :eyebrows:

Nope, test it for yourself. I know you can find a SMEC car to try it out on. Hook it up and check the current draw at the battery. I discovered this issue on SMEC cars before you ever had your Ostrich if I remember correctly.


You said this--Hence my reply. :D

What I meant by "all those going forward" were the SMEC, SBEC, SBECII, etc. cals...not the versioning of said cals. My point once again was that the LM cals just seemed to do much better.

I also said unimpressed...as of about 6 months ago. I didn't say they were not worth a crap or whatever it was YOU said. I felt like the SMEC cals lacked refinement...of which I understand from what I've read that they are definitely coming around and are much better. I have no experience with FWD or TU cals but I do know people that have had stellar results with both...and also people that have not had as good of luck. I also said that LM cals were much better in my experience. What I didn't say was calibrations AS A WHOLE sucked or whatever it was YOU said as that is not at all what I believe. The LM cals just were better than the SMEC cals for a long time...which WAS a well known fact amongst the crowd I run with.


And yeah, I've said it twice now, there is a steep learning curve, I was confused but once you get into it, its not that hard plus you can call me, or Brian or post up. Brian helped me-which talking to someone made it so simple and I've paid it forward a few times too.

Uhhh...no offense and not at all trying to be confrontational...but I was the one trying to help you with the Ostrich and how it integrates with the cal process when you first started making cals with your (then new to you) Ostrich (not person to person but over the forum)...and that was close to a year after Brian helped me. I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying or I wasn't clear. I do appreciate your offer though. Now I'm not saying that means I'm better at it than you...and I'm also not saying that there isn't something that you may know that I don't. I am saying I can tune my car just fine...but I do think I can improve...and will with the engine build in process.

Again I was trying to give an experience as when I was a newbie with it...to give some help to the OP...not trying to say that I currently need help as I have a tune that works ok for me and have not touched it in almost a year. I'm almost ready to dump the current drive train and upgrade quite a bit...we will see how that goes once it's complete.


See above and see the KC articles, :p

I'm good Simon :thumb: ...but I do appreciate you willingness to help :)

[turbovanman²]

Nope, test it for yourself. I know you can find a SMEC car to try it out on. Hook it up and check the current draw at the battery. I discovered this issue on SMEC cars before you ever had your Ostrich if I remember correctly.

I will in a few weeks on the van.


What I meant by "all those going forward" were the SMEC, SBEC, SBECII, etc. cals...not the versioning of said cals. My point once again was that the LM cals just seemed to do much better.

I also said unimpressed...as of about 6 months ago. I didn't say they were not worth a crap or whatever it was YOU said. I felt like the SMEC cals lacked refinement...of which I understand from what I've read that they are definitely coming around and are much better. I have no experience with FWD or TU cals but I do know people that have had stellar results with both...and also people that have not had as good of luck. I also said that LM cals were much better in my experience. What I didn't say was calibrations AS A WHOLE sucked or whatever it was YOU said as that is not at all what I believe. The LM cals just were better than the SMEC cals for a long time...which WAS a well known fact amongst the crowd I run with.

It came across differently, hence my reply, but now you've cleared it up, we all understand now. :D



Uhhh...no offense and not at all trying to be confrontational...but I was the one trying to help you with the Ostrich and how it integrates with the cal process when you first started making cals with your (then new to you) Ostrich (not person to person but over the forum)...and that was close to a year after Brian helped me. I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying or I wasn't clear. I do appreciate your offer though. Now I'm not saying that means I'm better at it than you...and I'm also not saying that there isn't something that you may know that I don't. I am saying I can tune my car just fine...but I do think I can improve...and will with the engine build in process.

No offence, it wasn't aimed at you but the OP of this thread and anyone in general.


Again I was trying to give an experience as when I was a newbie with it...to give some help to the OP...not trying to say that I currently need help as I have a tune that works ok for me and have not touched it in almost a year. I'm almost ready to dump the current drive train and upgrade quite a bit...we will see how that goes once it's complete.



I'm good Simon :thumb: ...but I do appreciate you willingness to help :)


Again, it wasn't meant for you but the OP and anyone else but I am flattered you took it that way, :thumb: