What Injectors to Run?

[trbowgn]

I need to know what injectors I should run on my setup in the wagon.
It is a 2.2 auto car with:
stock swirl head
stock 1 piece intake
stock exhaust manifold
stock TII turbo with 2.5" swing valve
2.5" exhaust,
Super 60 Intercooler

I am running around 18 PSI

I currently have stock 2.5 injectors and the AF looks great with the current cal that is set up for 18 PSI with stock injectors.

So the question is should I stick with stock injectors or go with +20's or something else? I know I would have to get a new cal if I changed injectors.

I realy have no intention of going any higher on boost but some parts may be getting swapped with ported pieces in the near future.

[turbovanman²]

If you have the fuel, leave them alone.

[BadAssPerformance]

+1... go with those for now and upgrade later when you do some mods?

[Pat]

I disagree...I'd throw in some +20's and have some margin for error.

[BadAssPerformance]

I disagree...I'd throw in some +20's and have some margin for error.

Really, even if its currently set up correctly? Stock stuff on 18psi...


I am running around 18 PSI

I currently have stock 2.5 injectors and the AF looks great with the current cal that is set up for 18 PSI with stock injectors.

Thinking of "margin" and looking at this again there are 2 questions:

1) What is the WBO2 A/F ratio?

2) What cal are you talking about and how "agressive" was it designed?

[trbowgn]

Thinking of "margin" and looking at this again there are 2 questions:

1) What is the WBO2 A/F ratio?

2) What cal are you talking about and how "agressive" was it designed?

No wide band yet so I am relying on the old style A/F wich shows right in the green area 14.7 I think.

The cal is a Rellentless Performance that I do not know to much about other than it was set up for stock injectors, 18PSI with a Swirl.
There are some numbers I could pull off the chip but I'm not sure if they would do any good.

[BIG PSI]

Do you have a set of +20 F.I. laying around ?

Chuck

PS you could PM Gar Donovan, he is a member here
His handle is MoparTech

[turbovanman²]

No wide band yet so I am relying on the old style A/F wich shows right in the green area 14.7 I think.

The cal is a Rellentless Performance that I do not know to much about other than it was set up for stock injectors, 18PSI with a Swirl.
There are some numbers I could pull off the chip but I'm not sure if they would do any good.

If you have a Dawes, the ox sensor is ok, then you have plenty of fuel.

[trbowgn]

Do you have a set of +20 F.I. laying around ?

Chuck

PS you could PM Gar Donovan, he is a member here
His handle is MoparTech

No I don't have a set

and good idea I will pull the numbers tonight and send them to Gary.

[GLHNSLHT2]

If you have a Dawes, the ox sensor is ok, then you have plenty of fuel.

Simon quit spreading that BS crap around.

GET a Wideband! They are too cheap to not know where you are with fuel. One look at how the narrowband outputs voltage based on a/f ratio should convince you they are junk.

The narrowband sensor is just a switch to tell the ECU if you're are on the rich or lean side of Stoich (14.7:1) The only reason lots of people got by with the gauge reading the NB sensor is because they were flooding the car down with fuel.

[trbowgn]

Didn't want to start this argument.
But it sounds like I may stick with the stock injectors and pay attention to the n/b a/f and read my plugs to make sure I am not leaning out and upgrade to +20s when I finish porting my head, intake, and exhaust manifold.
Thanks for the input guys

[turbovanman²]

Simon quit spreading that BS crap around.

GET a Wideband! They are too cheap to not know where you are with fuel. One look at how the narrowband outputs voltage based on a/f ratio should convince you they are junk.

The narrowband sensor is just a switch to tell the ECU if you're are on the rich or lean side of Stoich (14.7:1) The only reason lots of people got by with the gauge reading the NB sensor is because they were flooding the car down with fuel.

BULLSHIT. I guess the 1000's of 1000's that use or used AF gauges before widebands became cheap were/are doing it wrong. Load of total crap, YOU DO NOT NEED A WIDEBAND FOR MONITORING WOT AF. END OF STORY!

[BadAssPerformance]

OK guys, calm down...

OK, you may not "need" a WB to "monitor" A/F ratio at WOT as a NB will tell you "rich" or "lean". You do, however need a WB if you want to know what the A/F ratio "value" is, and by "value" I mean a ratio number, not just "rich".

Kyle is not new to these cars or tuning them... he's been playing with them for the ~15 years I've known him, all the way back when his Daytona was faster than mine! ;)

[trbowgn]

OK guys, calm down...

OK, you may not "need" a WB to "monitor" A/F ratio at WOT as a NB will tell you "rich" or "lean". You do, however need a WB if you want to know what the A/F ratio "value" is, and by "value" I mean a ratio number, not just "rich".

Kyle is not new to these cars or tuning them... he's been playing with them for the ~15 years I've known him, all the way back when his Daytona was faster than mine! ;)

Thanks for the props JT, but I do feel like I am new because so much has changed from back then.

EGT was the hot ticket that we were using then.
I will put a Wideband on it sometime soon but the budget for the wagon is tight since I am trying to put most of my car funds into the resurection of the Daytona.

[BadAssPerformance]

A lot has changed, and the new methods are better, but the old school methods still work... :thumb:

Oh yeah? Will be cool to see the blue beast ressurected! :nod:

[blk86trbo]

Kyle, when you bring the wagon to the track, I really want to check it out! Maybe I'll even get mine race ready and we can run 'em!

[turbovanman²]

OK guys, calm down...

OK, you may not "need" a WB to "monitor" A/F ratio at WOT as a NB will tell you "rich" or "lean". You do, however need a WB if you want to know what the A/F ratio "value" is, and by "value" I mean a ratio number, not just "rich".



Exactly. :nod:

[Vigo]

Call me crazy, but 14.1 a/f is only 'rich' when you're not running 18 psi of boost.

being on the rich side of 14.7.. is like being on the rich side of making $3 a year. I am rich! How rich? Not rich enough, for sure.. a little vague, eh?

[BadAssPerformance]

Sure enough 14.1 is bad but thats if you're barely pegging the rich light... If you're pegging the rich light at part throttle (closed loop) and 12psi then you're more than likely going to be plenty rich at 18psi in WOT unless your cal is jacked? I mean a stock cal can do it... which I'd guess the 2-bar cal that latches full rich on anything 14.7psi or higher right? I mean, I've only run a 2-bar cal to 27psi, but the LM didnt know that... and the NB goes full rich at ~5psi or less

Dont get me wrong the WBO2 is the best thing since the NB, but the NB is not impossible to figure out, just takes a bit more thinking about it and checking plugs, etc. Also not able to fine tune it as much (obviously) but there is a difference between "safe" and "well tuned"

[Vigo]

but there is a difference between "safe" and "well tuned"

That is well put!

This thread has me thinking i should just bust out the voltmeter and see if we can get my friend's all stock 2.5 t2 new yorker to 18 psi.. :)

[TonaChris]

Havent tuned a cal for a tm yet so correct me if Im wrong, but being a boosted car the a/f ratio at wot should be around 11.7ish:1?

[firehawk618]

Havent tuned a cal for a tm yet so correct me if Im wrong, but being a boosted car the a/f ratio at wot should be around 11.7ish:1?

Yup, IMO if it's > than low 12's you're starting to get dangerous!

[BadAssPerformance]

That is well put!

This thread has me thinking i should just bust out the voltmeter and see if we can get my friend's all stock 2.5 t2 new yorker to 18 psi.. :)

LOL, go for it... we ran 25psi on the CL NYer when it was "log" T1 and also T2! we, um didnt care if we blew it up tho and we didnt haev any a/f gauge... so we just put in 118 octane and hoped for the best, LOL :D



Havent tuned a cal for a tm yet so correct me if Im wrong, but being a boosted car the a/f ratio at wot should be around 11.7ish:1?

Good question, wonder what the stock cal is at WOT?

[TonaChris]

Good question, wonder what the stock cal is at WOT?

Tis a good question, but who installs a wideband on a stock car:confused2:

[BadAssPerformance]

Someonw who wants to answer that question ;)

...or someone who is planning a build and starting by investigating the baseline