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Warren Stramer
05-06-2010, 05:07 PM
Last months photos, have to wire the entire car yet, fire it up and start sorting things out.
Plan on dialing it in with the old turbo before I order a new monster size unit. It will be good to be back. Warren

AzShadow
05-06-2010, 05:59 PM
WOW :hail:

contraption22
05-06-2010, 06:33 PM
Awesome work as always Warren! Can't wait to see your results!

OneOfMany
05-06-2010, 06:39 PM
Damn that's awesome fab work! Love that color too.

Grant

spyder
05-06-2010, 06:57 PM
That's the Awesome !!

http://i44.tinypic.com/1z5s1s6.jpg

dwh4784
05-06-2010, 06:58 PM
Nice looking engine!!

thedon809
05-06-2010, 07:09 PM
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/thedon809/I_jizz_in_my_pants_by_HOLIMOUNT-1.jpg

shelbymonster
05-06-2010, 07:34 PM
thats is a awesome job ! cant wait to see the ic stuff

BadAssPerformance
05-06-2010, 07:37 PM
Awesome Warren! :thumb: Gonna make it to SDAC? :eyebrows:

turbovanmanČ
05-06-2010, 08:18 PM
With everyone else, :hail::hail::hail:

What's your goal, low 9's, high 8's? :amen:

Warren Stramer
05-06-2010, 09:21 PM
With everyone else, :hail::hail::hail:

What's your goal, low 9's, high 8's? :amen:

Simon, I will be happy to get it back in the mid tens to start with, but the goal is a 9.xx second 8 valve, or as fast as I can go. I will have to remove at least 150 more lbs, and pick up about 75 HP to crack the nines. I think the horsepower is the easy part. Getting the weight off is much more expensive and time consuming at this point.
Realistically, an 8 sec. 8valve would take a feather weight tube chassis Omni or something in the 1700 lbs range, this G body is just too big and heavy............I think? I want to keep this cars appearence and layout like a super stocker if that makes any sense.

Thanks everyone for taking a look and all the kind words, Warren

jl93sundance
05-06-2010, 09:24 PM
wow!:thumb:

badandy
05-06-2010, 10:23 PM
I've never even remotely known anyone with craftsmanship abilities like that :hail:

Pat
05-06-2010, 10:52 PM
Very nice.

BadAssPerformance
05-06-2010, 11:21 PM
..... this G body is just too big and heavy............I think? I want to keep this cars appearence and layout like a super stocker if that makes any sense.

Thanks everyone for taking a look and all the kind words, Warren

Yeah, yer telling me, g-bodys are heavy! :( But they look better tho ;)

You deserve the kind words, awesome work as always Warren! :hail:

WickedShelby88
05-06-2010, 11:29 PM
That is beautiful Warren. Your attention to detail and patience with it shows throughout! I can't think of many things better than a car that performs as well as it looks.

Warren Stramer
05-07-2010, 12:48 AM
Awesome Warren! :thumb: Gonna make it to SDAC? :eyebrows:

You never know.........I'm overdue

Turbo3Iroc
05-07-2010, 12:58 AM
Always highly impressed with your work Warren! Hope you can make it out.

cordes
05-07-2010, 01:27 AM
The dirtiest spot in your engine bay is cleaner, and better looking than the cleanest, best looking spot on my entire car.

Absolutely amazing.

turbo2point2
05-07-2010, 06:17 AM
Extremely nice work Warren. I :love: what you did with the motor plate:thumb: Makes me want to clean my car now, thanks!

Keep up the great work, and keep raising the bar:amen:

BadAssPerformance
05-07-2010, 08:51 AM
You never know.........I'm overdue

It has been a while, hope you can! :)

Warren Stramer
05-07-2010, 09:43 AM
Extremely nice work Warren. I :love: what you did with the motor plate:thumb: Makes me want to clean my car now, thanks!

Keep up the great work, and keep raising the bar:amen:

Brian, I think you got it backwards, you are the one raising the bar! I'm just trying to keep up.

The motor plate is my attempt to prevent the engine torque from causing the block to 'wind up' end to end. I hope to stop the deck and main cap registers from distorting under max load. Should help cyl head sealing and cap walk. I dont see any down side other than the work to machine it.
The plate goes down and picks up the bottom of the block behind the timing belt tensioner, also I bolted it to the block with counter sunk 45deg. socket head bolts so it is like welded to the block.
The bell housing mid mounts are also solid now, should be a real vibrator............here are a couple better shots of the plate.

turboshad
05-07-2010, 10:33 AM
Absolutely excellent work. Thank you for putting out a quality of fabrication tha gives me something to strive for. I have yet to see something you have created that hasn't made me want to get better. :hail:


You never know.........I'm overdue

I sure hope so. I was sad to not see you there last year. If you don't make it I may have to drive home through North Dakota. :thumb:

mcsvt
05-07-2010, 11:02 AM
Great work Warren, always look forward to your posts! :thumb: :thumb:

Hope to see you at SDAC!

raccoon
05-07-2010, 12:23 PM
awesome! so much attention to detail.

my words are not enough.

ohiorob
05-09-2010, 08:01 AM
You never know.........I'm overdue

stop teasing us :p

awesome craftsmanship :hail::hail::hail:

your car makes my car looks like a caveman built it.

Rampage16V
05-09-2010, 09:49 AM
Its like Jewelery!!! And I know it will run hard too! Looks great Warren!

omni_840
05-09-2010, 04:02 PM
Very nice work (as always):hail::hail::hail:

turbovanmanČ
05-09-2010, 07:12 PM
I forgot, what does your airbox look like?

Warren Stramer
05-09-2010, 10:42 PM
I forgot, what does your airbox look like?

I don't have any current pics of it. I'll post some up in a few days.

Warren Stramer
08-17-2010, 02:55 AM
Just about done wiring the entire car. removed aprox. 48 lbs of factory wiring and unused components. My goal was light weight, easy maintainance, and no failures.
Also I removed the alternator and changed to a 16 volt system. there are no accessory drive belts to fly off or rob power.
So far Ive crimped and soldered about 300 terminals, WAY more work than I imagined it would be. Still have to wire up the factory digital dash.

fired it up to check out the new big cam, It sounds VERY nasty, I free revved it a few time to see if the roller followers would fly out- so far all is well. If it runs as good as it sounds I will be having mucho fun. Cant wait to take it out on the street!

BadAssPerformance
08-17-2010, 03:53 AM
Awesome Warren, looks great (as usual) and glad to hear it fired up! :thumb: Cant wait to see it! :)

turbo2point2
08-17-2010, 06:16 AM
:hail: Awesome stuff as usual Warren. Track debut soon?

omni_840
08-17-2010, 07:50 AM
Looks like art:)

Reeves
08-17-2010, 08:49 AM
stop teasing us :p

awesome craftsmanship :hail::hail::hail:

your car makes my car looks like a caveman built it.

times like 4 for my car!

Wow Warren.....just WOW! I can't even come up with any words or smarta$$ comments! That thing is absolutely beautiful!

:hail::thumb::clap:

Glad to hear it fired up!

You should come out with me and Rob to the Chrysler World Finals in Norwalk, OH! They like our cars beating up on them....just WAIT till they see you running!!! :yuck:

contraption22
08-17-2010, 08:53 AM
Awesome. Just awesome.

cordes
08-17-2010, 09:04 AM
Wow. To say that looks spectacular is an understatement.

Warren Stramer
08-17-2010, 01:30 PM
times like 4 for my car!

Wow Warren.....just WOW! I can't even come up with any words or smarta$$ comments! That thing is absolutely beautiful!

:hail::thumb::clap:

Glad to hear it fired up!

You should come out with me and Rob to the Chrysler World Finals in Norwalk, OH! They like our cars beating up on them....just WAIT till they see you running!!! :yuck:

You guys are all too kind, smart a$$ comments would be welcome also.
It is sure good to hear the old 8V run again, has been almost three years since I last raced it. I dont work as fast as I used to but I did make alot of changes and updates......

What ive changed........................
developed and machined all new cyl. head and valve train
designed custom grind roller race cam
had cometic build custom head gasket using gas filled sealing rings
designed and fabbed extra head studs
redesigned cooling system, aluminum rad. and different elec. pump
machined engine mounting plate and solid front and rear mounts
installed new 1300cfm intercooler and mounts
fabbed front mount fuel cell and pump delivery plumbing
removed rear cell and plumbing
relocated battery to right side and built in battery box
cut off right side engine frame mount and any unneccessary brackets
fabbed new coolant catch can
removed brake booster and converted to manual brakes
built new brake pedal with more leverage
removed all factory wiring
installed FR1500 voltage step-up module for 16v power supply
remover alt
rewired entire car
built switch control center
cleaned and painted engine compartment
fabbed new front rad. header panal
installed hood pins
different valve cover and thats about all I can remember, all told I removed about 70lbs, and added back about 28lbs.

now I can start debugging things.............

turbovanmanČ
08-17-2010, 01:34 PM
Speechless, :hail::hail::hail:

BadAssPerformance
08-17-2010, 01:35 PM
Wow, thats all? ;) J/K, sounds like a ton of new stuff!

Which fuel pump are you using? I couldnt imaine running the A1000 w/o an alternator?

cordes
08-17-2010, 01:52 PM
That is really quite a list. Makes me feel like I'm not getting anything done.

ShelGame
08-17-2010, 02:27 PM
Warren, there's a place here in Michigan called MPR Race Cars. I don't know if you've heard of Mike Pulsteny (pull-stone-ee), but he has been building beautiful and very fast race cars for many years. He has the contract with Mopar to build the challenger drag pack cars.

I think you could teach his guys some things about building a race car...

Warren Stramer
08-17-2010, 03:21 PM
Wow, thats all? ;) J/K, sounds like a ton of new stuff!

Which fuel pump are you using? I couldnt imaine running the A1000 w/o an alternator?

Fuel pump is a Bosch unit, draws 12 amp @ 5bar/16v. turns out going from 13.5 volts with alt., to 16 volts, the pump output capacity increases by about 30%.
16v output is dead linear even with batt. in voltage as low as 9.75V. The Jacobs Accuvolt 1500 will deliver up to 100 amps/1500 watts.
I built the battery box to hold two AGM batteries just in case, but so far I'm surprised how long it will run and still start on a charge with just one . I always charged my battery between rounds anyway for consistancy.

Warren Stramer
08-17-2010, 03:26 PM
Warren, there's a place here in Michigan called MPR Race Cars. I don't know if you've heard of Mike Pulsteny (pull-stone-ee), but he has been building beautiful and very fast race cars for many years. He has the contract with Mopar to build the challenger drag pack cars.

I think you could teach his guys some things about building a race car...

I think I would enjoy designing the hardware and layout for a project like that, but I wouldnt want to do the fabricating, getting to be to much work for this lazy man.
I doubt I could teach them anything.

Warren Stramer
08-17-2010, 03:29 PM
That is really quite a list. Makes me feel like I'm not getting anything done.

I still have a to-do list about that long before I'm calling it done, but I will race it before then and do the rest as I have time. Thanks

turboshad
08-17-2010, 05:12 PM
Really?!?!? You guys are going to make me bring this up?!? OK, Warren, you are not fooling anybody. We can all clearly see that along the fender harness the white wire ducks behind the red wire when it should really follow its order the whole length. I mean c'mon, do it right or don't do it at all. I'm sorry I had to break it to you this way but your ego is obviously getting out of control. ;)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g103/turboshad/wiring205.jpg









Please tell me you saw the winky eye....
I can't say anything more than :hail: I absolutely love clean wiring since it is the area the average joe hacks to bits, yet when done properly it can look like structured art. Excellent effort and attention Warren. Once again I can only aspire. :clap:

Warren Stramer
08-17-2010, 06:03 PM
Really?!?!? You guys are going to make me bring this up?!? OK, Warren, you are not fooling anybody. We can all clearly see that along the fender harness the white wire ducks behind the red wire when it should really follow its order the whole length. I mean c'mon, do it right or don't do it at all. I'm sorry I had to break it to you this way but your ego is obviously getting out of control. ;)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g103/turboshad/wiring205.jpg









Please tell me you saw the winky eye....
I can't say anything more than :hail: I absolutely love clean wiring since it is the area the average joe hacks to bits, yet when done properly it can look like structured art. Excellent effort and attention Warren. Once again I can only aspire. :clap:

OOPS! I will have to fix that oversight, sorry bout that. seriously though, that is really freakin hard to bundle wire in parallel, the wire has a memory from being wound on spool.

cordes
08-17-2010, 06:47 PM
OOPS! I will have to fix that oversight, sorry bout that. seriously though, that is really freakin hard to bundle wire in parallel, the wire has a memory from being wound on spool.

Excuses, excuses. ;)

Turbo3Iroc
08-17-2010, 07:29 PM
I really expected more from you Warren......




All kidding aside great job as always.

shelbymonster
08-17-2010, 07:54 PM
cant say much thant the others , attention to details is ... freaking awesome !

prepared
08-17-2010, 08:28 PM
Hey! I use the same oil filter as this awesome machine!

Warren, I can honestly say that I've only seen MAYBE 3 or 4 vehicles in my LIFE that could compare to this! Your attention to detail and abilities are beyond belief!!

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/4/5/633745165167456810-HOLYSHIT.jpg

AzShadow
08-17-2010, 09:43 PM
schwwiiiinnnng!

if my car was 1/4 clean as your car id be happy.

Ondonti
08-18-2010, 11:32 PM
Suck it Warren, hope that motivates you :P


That Bosch pump has a really really low AMP pull. Is that why you picked it? plain old walbros pull near 20 at either 14 or 16 volts I can't remember, and have less capacity I am sure.

I have 2 externals walbros and Megasquirt primes my fuel pumps for a full 5 seconds and on the worn out SLA battery I had I could hear the stupid pumps grinding down on the battery and changing tone.

What is the Amp hours on those batteries?

Warren Stramer
08-19-2010, 12:09 PM
Suck it Warren, hope that motivates you :P


That Bosch pump has a really really low AMP pull. Is that why you picked it? plain old walbros pull near 20 at either 14 or 16 volts I can't remember, and have less capacity I am sure.

I have 2 externals walbros and Megasquirt primes my fuel pumps for a full 5 seconds and on the worn out SLA battery I had I could hear the stupid pumps grinding down on the battery and changing tone.

What is the Amp hours on those batteries?The entire current load with everything running is less than 40A.(actual measured) That includes Fuel pump. water pump,both control modules,instruments and even park and tail lamps. The battery voltage into the Accuvolt box can be as low as 9.75V and the output voltage will stay dead level 16v, or what ever I set it to as it is adjustable between 13-16.25v.

The battery I'm using is a Odyssey PC625, 16 amp hr 12V.

ShelGame
08-19-2010, 12:45 PM
The entire current load with everything running is less than 40A.(actual measured) That includes Fuel pump. water pump,both control modules,instruments and even park and tail lamps. The battery voltage into the Accuvolt box can be as low as 9.75V and the output voltage will stay dead level 16v, or what ever I set it to as it is adjustable between 13-16.25v.

The battery I'm using is a Odyssey PC625, 16 amp hr 12V.

I gotta ask - what's an accuvolt box?

Reeves
08-19-2010, 01:05 PM
I gotta ask - what's an accuvolt box?

http://www.jacobselectronics.com.au/raceaccuvolt.htm

I've been looking at these as well, to kill the alternator when racing.....they are $$$ though.

I have an older version.

turbovanmanČ
08-19-2010, 01:36 PM
http://www.jacobselectronics.com.au/raceaccuvolt.htm

I've been looking at these as well, to kill the alternator when racing.....they are $$$ though.

I have an older version.

Pretty cool but kinda leery that they'll drop my times by 1/2 sec?

BadAssPerformance
08-19-2010, 01:41 PM
Pretty cool but kinda leery that they'll drop my times by 1/2 sec?

Why??

turbovanmanČ
08-19-2010, 01:42 PM
Why??

They are saying by simply adding that box I'll drop 1/2? If this was any other product saying that, it would be in the lounge and we'd be making fun of it.

Reeves
08-19-2010, 01:45 PM
Pretty cool but kinda leery that they'll drop my times by 1/2 sec?

How do you get 1/2 out of .29 ? Is that metric time?

BadAssPerformance
08-19-2010, 01:45 PM
They are saying by simply adding that box I'll drop 1/2? If this was any other product saying that, it would be in the lounge and we'd be making fun of it.

Did you see their chart? Are you running 18's?


Jacobs Electronics Guarantees the Following 1/4 Mile Results:
If the present 1/4 mile ET is: ACCUVOLT REDUCES ET BY AT LEAST
Accuvolt at 14V Accuvolt at 16V
Below 6.49 sec No Data No Data
6.50 - 7.99 sec 0.15 sec 0.17 sec
8.00 - 9.49 sec 0.19 sec 0.22 sec
9.50 - 10.99 sec 0.21 sec 0.25 sec
11.00 - 12.49 sec 0.25 sec 0.29 sec
12.50 - 13.99 sec 0.29 sec 0.34 sec
14.00 - 15.49 sec 0.33 sec 0.38 sec
15.50 - 16.99 sec 0.38 sec 0.43 sec
17.00 - 18.49 sec 0.42 sec 0.47 sec
18.50 - and above 0.50 sec 0.56 sec

And do you know how much HP an alternator robs?


How do you get 1/2 out of .29 ? Is that metric time?

ROFLMAO!

turbovanmanČ
08-19-2010, 01:46 PM
How do you get 1/2 out of .29 ? Is that metric time?

Yeah, lol. Sorry, .34 sec's, but close enough, :lol:

That's still a bold statement.

Reeves
08-19-2010, 01:47 PM
Yeah, lol. Sorry, .34 sec's, but close enough, :lol:

That's still a bold statement.

Your 1/4 mile times are closer to .29 range.

turbovanmanČ
08-19-2010, 01:55 PM
Your 1/4 mile times are closer to .29 range.

Voltage says .34volts-


12.50 - 13.99 sec 0.29 sec 0.34 sec





Jacobs Electronics Guarantees the Following 1/4 Mile Results:
If the present 1/4 mile ET is: ACCUVOLT REDUCES ET BY AT LEAST
Accuvolt at 14V Accuvolt at 16V
Below 6.49 sec No Data No Data
6.50 - 7.99 sec 0.15 sec 0.17 sec
8.00 - 9.49 sec 0.19 sec 0.22 sec
9.50 - 10.99 sec 0.21 sec 0.25 sec
11.00 - 12.49 sec 0.25 sec 0.29 sec
12.50 - 13.99 sec 0.29 sec 0.34 sec
14.00 - 15.49 sec 0.33 sec 0.38 sec
15.50 - 16.99 sec 0.38 sec 0.43 sec
17.00 - 18.49 sec 0.42 sec 0.47 sec
18.50 - and above 0.50 sec 0.56 sec
And do you know how much HP an alternator robs?

Did you actually read the chart?

I am not off by saying 1/2 sec as they claim a minimim of .34 secs if I up the voltage.

That's still a wicked claim, and they say AT LEAST!

Warren Stramer
08-19-2010, 01:58 PM
They are saying by simply adding that box I'll drop 1/2? If this was any other product saying that, it would be in the lounge and we'd be making fun of it.

Marketing hype aside it is a high quality piece and works exactly as advertized. it uses capacitors to regulate the power. I weighs 8lbs, so I mounted it in front; behind the headlamp cover for cooling and traction.
I wanted to loose the alt. weight and I was throwing alt. belts. I found this new on EBay for the price of dirt, only one other bidder. Also, Jacobs was bought out by Prestolite and they threw away the parts and components for the FR units. They are no longer available new.

Warren Stramer
08-19-2010, 02:02 PM
A good friend of mine who runs a NHRA National event winning Super Stocker Dropped 2 tenths off his mid eleven sec. car by kicking the voltage up to 16V.......EVERYTHING works better at the higher voltage.

ShelGame
08-19-2010, 02:12 PM
http://www.jacobselectronics.com.au/raceaccuvolt.htm

I've been looking at these as well, to kill the alternator when racing.....they are $$$ though.

I have an older version.

Assuming you're using the LM/SMEC/SBEC built-in voltage regulation, the ECU already kills the alternator when at WOT. The problem is, the battery volts then will drop to as low as ~10.5 volts on a sinlge 1/4 mile pass (in my car at least). I'm conerned about spark energy and injector pulsewidth at those voltages. We do have the latency table that should at least partially compenste the injector PW. And, I added the dwell time compensation from battery volts to T-SMEC for this very reason. But, I'd still prefer to have 12+ volts at the end of the run.

I don't see this thing taking 3 tenths off my 1/4 mile time, though. Maybe on a V8...

turbovanmanČ
08-19-2010, 02:15 PM
Marketing hype aside it is a high quality piece and works exactly as advertized. it uses capacitors to regulate the power. I weighs 8lbs, so I mounted it in front; behind the headlamp cover for cooling and traction.
I wanted to loose the alt. weight and I was throwing alt. belts. I found this new on EBay for the price of dirt, only one other bidder. Also, Jacobs was bought out by Prestolite and they threw away the parts and components for the FR units. They are no longer available new.

I agree it looks like a quality unit, just the claims kinda throw me, lol.


A good friend of mine who runs a NHRA National event winning Super Stocker Dropped 2 tenths off his mid eleven sec. car by kicking the voltage up to 16V.......EVERYTHING works better at the higher voltage.

That's alot, wow, :thumb:

Reeves
08-19-2010, 02:28 PM
Assuming you're using the LM/SMEC/SBEC built-in voltage regulation, the ECU already kills the alternator when at WOT. The problem is, the battery volts then will drop to as low as ~10.5 volts on a sinlge 1/4 mile pass (in my car at least). I'm conerned about spark energy and injector pulsewidth at those voltages. We do have the latency table that should at least partially compenste the injector PW. And, I added the dwell time compensation from battery volts to T-SMEC for this very reason. But, I'd still prefer to have 12+ volts at the end of the run.

Seriously? I never knew that.

But, to think about that, I've been in some slower cars and was at WOT for a good bit and never saw the headlights dim or anything.

With fuel pump and fan on in my OMNI and engine not running, it doesn't take long to hear the voltage go down via pump musical notes...

Does the alt come back on at WOT when the battery gets to X voltage or when X amount of time has passed?

MiniMopar
08-19-2010, 02:49 PM
Indeed, I dont think that is true...at least not with the LM. It's an interesting idea, though.

ShelGame
08-19-2010, 02:55 PM
Well, damn, you made me go look and now I don't see it in the code. But, I know the cal I've been running in my race car does it - I've datalogged the bat volts and it does drop thru the whole run down to ~10.5 volts. As soon as I lift, it pops back up to ~13.5v.

The cal in my race car is a stock-based cal (haven't had enought track time this year to tune a T-SMEC cal for it and it's fast with the current cal). I seem to recall I may have made some kind of modification to it to get it to stop charging at WOT. Let me check into it some more...

MiniMopar
08-19-2010, 03:00 PM
Hehe. My memory works similarly. My daily driver (Frankentona) has a S70. I do a fair amount of city driving so it's pretty much floored most of the time. Were this true, I'd have to put my car on the charger every night like an electric car. ;)

Reeves
08-19-2010, 03:07 PM
I seem to recall I may have made some kind of modification to it to get it to stop charging at WOT. Let me check into it some more...


Me and you talked about this one time. I asked if you could add code to kill the alt at wot. I was wanting to try it. You were going to test it. I think that maybe what you are thinking of.

ShelGame
08-19-2010, 03:12 PM
No, my race cal definitely has it. I'm thinking this is something I added a long time ago and forgot about. I need to dis-assemble that section of my race cal and see what I did. I hate it when I forget $hit... lol...

ShelGame
08-19-2010, 03:32 PM
Yep, I found the dis-assy of my race cal. The alternator cut at WOT was a modification I made. I totally forgot about it and thought it was stock. Well, it's going in my terminator code, now...

Sorry for the off-topic discussion, back to drooling over Warren's car...

Ondonti
08-19-2010, 04:27 PM
Hey warren, your car ain't good nuff.

I would go with a Motobatt battery. I just ditched my completely smoked PC680 Odyssy and am using a 21AH Motobatt that weighs the same and has also been shown to take abuse unlike any other of the SLA batteries.

The below thread shows these batteries doing 50 start attempts in a row (unassisted) on a V10 Triton, then other huge abuses like hooking them up to a flood light overnight multiple times, draining the batteries completely, charging them, etc etc etc.
You will like that read. It even shows how the batteries retain voltage over time when they have been abused.

After all the abuse the Motobatt comes out on top, the Odyssy (which is just an overpriced Genesis) is 2nd.
http://boulevardowners.com/cafe/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=157926

Seems like the right choice for how much your electrical system will abuse the batteries. The Motobatts are also a lot cheaper then the rebadged Genesis batteries so when you are forced to replace them at a longer interval then any other battery, it will be cheaper. I bought mine on their Ebay store and it arrived 3 days later on basic shipping.

BTW I wouldn't bother with the metal jacket versions Of Odyssy. My friend showed me you can just pry off the metal. It is just a metal case stock on with a hot glue gun, and you already have a nice metal case.

Ondonti
08-19-2010, 04:37 PM
BTW it seems you guys are missing something. Warrens setup puts out 16v even at 9.75 volts Battery voltage. This keeps his car consistent.


But if Reeves system does not maintain voltage, that is a bad thing. The megasquirt ECU has a specific setting for Dwell time (coil) based on battery voltage. You drop to 10 volts and there is a HUGE decrease in coil output, which is why megasquirt uses a correction table

Here is how the table breaks down for the coil (basic settings that you can change if you want to).
6v 500% correction
8v 248% correction
10v 168% correction
12v 128% correction
14v 102% correction
16v 88% correction (Warren Land)

And my experience is that Megasquirt developers are complete nerds who LOVE this type of stuff more then making HP etc. They get this stuff right. They probably have corrections for other things but don't give you ability to change it. On the MS, messing with the dwell can either nuke your coil circuit in the ECU or melt the coil, and I those are usually cheap things to replace. Nobody wants to destroy injectors etc.

The coil is an extreme example but everything in your EFI changes when voltage changes.

When 0.5MS of injector timing can be the difference between boom and zoom, do you want to chance it?
And the obvious problem will be that fuel pump output drops HUGE when voltage drops. So combine that with everything else and :yuck::yuck::yuck:
Another thing I noticed while datalogging MS is that it measures ignition timing % of error. I ever even thought of such a thing. Just another issue to keep in mind.

For a slow car, who cares, but the more HP you make per displacement, the finer edge you tread.

Right now I am using an oldschool regulator and it keeps the voltage right at 14-14.1 :)

Warren Stramer
08-19-2010, 04:43 PM
The Electromotive Tech EFI that I run has adlustable low voltage compensation so it has never been an issue for me with an alternator. I would never want to shut down the alt on my car during WOT. (unless you had another way to keep the voltage up) the LAST thing I want is current and voltage to ramp down or change at all. It causes too many tuning varyables, how can you accurately predict optimun injector PW when fuel psi and volumn are a moving target because of system voltage change?
What about ignition system current change? Ive always tried to eliminate as many variables as possible for max consistancy.

Reeves
08-19-2010, 04:44 PM
But if Reeves system does not maintain voltage, that is a bad thing.

No one said anything about my system not maintaining voltage :confused2:

ShelGame
08-19-2010, 04:53 PM
BTW it seems you guys are missing something. Warrens setup puts out 16v even at 9.75 volts Battery voltage. This keeps his car consistent.

No, I got that. It was an off-topic side discussion about our cals.



But if Reeves system does not maintain voltage, that is a bad thing. The megasquirt ECU has a specific setting for Dwell time (coil) based on battery voltage. You drop to 10 volts and there is a HUGE decrease in coil output, which is why megasquirt uses a correction table

It's not Reeves car, it's mine that shuts off the alternator at WOT...


Here is how the table breaks down for the coil (basic settings that you can change if you want to).
6v 500% correction
8v 248% correction
10v 168% correction
12v 128% correction
14v 102% correction
16v 88% correction (Warren Land)

The table I added to my SMEC code is very similar.


And my experience is that Megasquirt developers are complete nerds who LOVE this type of stuff more then making HP etc. They get this stuff right. They probably have corrections for other things but don't give you ability to change it. On the MS, messing with the dwell can either nuke your coil circuit in the ECU or melt the coil, and I those are usually cheap things to replace. Nobody wants to destroy injectors etc.

The coil is an extreme example but everything in your EFI changes when voltage changes.

When 0.5MS of injector timing can be the difference between boom and zoom, do you want to chance it?
And the obvious problem will be that fuel pump output drops HUGE when voltage drops. So combine that with everything else and :yuck::yuck::yuck:
Another thing I noticed while datalogging MS is that it measures ignition timing % of error. I ever even thought of such a thing. Just another issue to keep in mind.


Right, that's what the injector latecy table is for - PW/voltage compensation. That's stock in our cals. Actaully, I think every EFI code every written has that...


For a slow car, who cares, but the more HP you make per displacement, the finer edge you tread.

Right now I am using an oldschool regulator and it keeps the voltage right at 14-14.1 :)

Yes, I agree that keeping voltage up is good. However, it also takes up to 10HP to run the alternator at full speed and full load. When you're only making ~250hp to start with, that's a big difference. Of course, I don't know how much I'm giving up by letting the voltage drop to ~11V...

Warren Stramer
08-19-2010, 04:54 PM
BTW it seems you guys are missing something. Warrens setup puts out 16v even at 9.75 volts Battery voltage. This keeps his car consistent.


But if Reeves system does not maintain voltage, that is a bad thing. The megasquirt ECU has a specific setting for Dwell time (coil) based on battery voltage. You drop to 10 volts and there is a HUGE decrease in coil output, which is why megasquirt uses a correction table

Here is how the table breaks down for the coil (basic settings that you can change if you want to).
6v 500% correction
8v 248% correction
10v 168% correction
12v 128% correction
14v 102% correction
16v 88% correction (Warren Land)

And my experience is that Megasquirt developers are complete nerds who LOVE this type of stuff more then making HP etc. They get this stuff right. They probably have corrections for other things but don't give you ability to change it. On the MS, messing with the dwell can either nuke your coil circuit in the ECU or melt the coil, and I those are usually cheap things to replace. Nobody wants to destroy injectors etc.

The coil is an extreme example but everything in your EFI changes when voltage changes.

When 0.5MS of injector timing can be the difference between boom and zoom, do you want to chance it?
And the obvious problem will be that fuel pump output drops HUGE when voltage drops. So combine that with everything else and :yuck::yuck::yuck:
Another thing I noticed while datalogging MS is that it measures ignition timing % of error. I ever even thought of such a thing. Just another issue to keep in mind.

For a slow car, who cares, but the more HP you make per displacement, the finer edge you tread.

Right now I am using an oldschool regulator and it keeps the voltage right at 14-14.1 :)

Opps, Ondonti beat me to the draw.

MiniMopar
08-19-2010, 05:02 PM
An alternative is to regulate for 12.0-12.6V. You won't charge the battery but you maintain fully-charged battery voltage on the system. Still burning some HP, but not as much because the charging load for the battery is no longer there. Shoot for slightly below that and you are off-loading some duty to the battery. You could even be clever and switch back to full charging voltage at idle and/or close throttle.

Just a thought.

MiniMopar
08-19-2010, 05:06 PM
It sounds like the Accuvolt is a big DC-to-DC convertor (SMPS) that has a big charge-pump. Just a note that as the input voltage from the battery drops the current demand on it will go up. In other words, a dying battery has to supply more amps than a fully charged one for a given amount of current coming out of the thing.

Just FYI...cool device though.

Warren Stramer
08-19-2010, 05:44 PM
It sounds like the Accuvolt is a big DC-to-DC convertor (SMPS) that has a big charge-pump. Just a note that as the input voltage from the battery drops the current demand on it will go up. In other words, a dying battery has to supply more amps than a fully charged one for a given amount of current coming out of the thing.

Just FYI...cool device though. Yup Russ, You are right, Seems like getting something for nothing untill you realize the batt. I'm using will deliver 1800amps dead shorted. They dont say how long untill discharge @ dead short (not very long) The Accuvolt just 'manages' the discharge rate to what ever the system load requires till Batt is down to 9.75V
I only need the batt. to last a few starts, burnout, 9.85 sec run( hehe), and back to the hotdog stand. I always recharged between runs anyway.

Reeves
08-20-2010, 08:58 AM
An alternative is to regulate for 12.0-12.6V. You won't charge the battery but you maintain fully-charged battery voltage on the system. Still burning some HP, but not as much because the charging load for the battery is no longer there. Shoot for slightly below that and you are off-loading some duty to the battery. You could even be clever and switch back to full charging voltage at idle and/or close throttle.

Just a thought.

Not a bad thought there. Say 13.6 to 14.0 or so at all conditions except WOT. WOT target would be 12.0 to 12.6 or so. I like it :thumb:



It sounds like the Accuvolt is a big DC-to-DC convertor (SMPS) that has a big charge-pump. Just a note that as the input voltage from the battery drops the current demand on it will go up. In other words, a dying battery has to supply more amps than a fully charged one for a given amount of current coming out of the thing.

Just FYI...cool device though.

That's exactly what it is. Only downside is that with out an alternator, as soon as the battery starts losing charge, the Accu-Volt demands more current, battery loses more charge, Accu-Volt demands more current, etc..... I could see it killing a slightly under charged battery VERY quickly.

I think Warren is going to be A.OK in that he'll charge between rounds, but it would still be interesting to see just how long the car will run without re-charging the battery.

Reeves
09-01-2010, 09:13 AM
Hey Warren......good to talk to you the other day!
Hope you are still planning on heading to the Mopar World Finals in Norwalk OH!!!!

Will be a GREAT time!

Also trying to talk JT into coming as well as Jon Moore (low 10's Neon)!

Could you imagine 5 FWD Turbo Mopars in one V8 race that are all running in the 10.0 shootout?

Woot!!!

shackwrrr
09-01-2010, 10:37 AM
Awesome car and I love the wiring work. I have something to share that may help with a little more power. I was going through some stuff figuring out what I needed to do for velocity stacks like that. I asked my fab instructor at the college for some help since he has been building race cars for years and he had a interesting comment about the bell mouth shape of the 'stack. He said that when building their midget engines they gained a pretty measurable amount by taking the bell mouth lip and rolling it to the point where it comes back to the runner to be more like a cylindrical bead. He thinks that doing this helped pull some of the stalled air off the floor of the plenum.

Like this http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/miscellaneous/m5twinturbokit/joshm5/joshvs.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Streicher << that was my instructor.



I just thought I would let you know, Keep up the good work

Reeves
09-08-2010, 07:40 PM
Mopar World Finals!!! :nod::love:

Shadow
09-08-2010, 09:08 PM
How the $#!T did I miss this? Great to hear you fired it up Warren!

Can hardly wait to see it gooooo! :nod:

Reeves
09-08-2010, 09:53 PM
How the $#!T did I miss this? Great to hear you fired it up Warren!

Can hardly wait to see it gooooo! :nod:

Put your clutch in and join us at Mopar World Finals in Norwalk! Info is in the events/racing section.

Shadow
09-09-2010, 10:13 AM
Put your clutch in and join us at Mopar World Finals in Norwalk! Info is in the events/racing section.

dude, your killing me! If you only knew how bad I wanted to make SDAC this year! Sometimes I wish I could win a lottery so I could just travel around racing, but the reality is that there has been more stuff going on in the background over the last few years than normal, and I'm the kind of personality that has to get the ground level work done first, before I go out and enjoy myself.

Having said that, I'm already planning for SDAC next year, so hopefully No excusses! :amen:

ShelGame
09-22-2010, 02:29 PM
Warren - is this the car that had the traction bar setup on the sway bar? Do you still run that? Any long-term conclusions about it?

Warren Stramer
09-22-2010, 03:25 PM
Warren - is this the car that had the traction bar setup on the sway bar? Do you still run that? Any long-term conclusions about it?

Same car complete different setup. To this day, my best 60 ft.s were with the torque link (traction bar) and strapped front suspension. I really didnt take the time to fine tune the system, but it worked. On a bad track it could go into tire shake and break axles. On a good track that wasnt a problem.
I had to stop using it cause at my power level it was too much stress on the engine block. I always thought it would work best with a trans brake or a manual trans.
I think it would be worth the effort on a car like your stocker if it is legal.

ShelGame
09-22-2010, 03:38 PM
Same car complete different setup. To this day, my best 60 ft.s were with the torque link (traction bar) and strapped front suspension. I really didnt take the time to fine tune the system, but it worked. On a bad track it could go into tire shake and break axles. On a good track that wasnt a problem.
I had to stop using it cause at my power level it was too much stress on the engine block. I always thought it would work best with a trans brake or a manual trans.
I think it would be worth the effort on a car like your stocker if it is legal.

I'm going to try and build one like it this winter. It's a little fuzzy on whether or not it's legal. Traction bars definitely ARE legal. So are torque straps. I could classify this either way to the tech officials. I'm hoping they simply don't notice it. The problem will be that it's FWD, so they won't understand what it's for. And, it might be hard to convince them it should be legal.

I think I want to make it symmetrical, though. The arm welded to the sway bar should be in the middle for even distribution of the reaction force to the wheels. I'll have to make a bracket to on the back of the engine/trans to mount the link to.

I don't have a trans brake, I brake torque the car up to about 5psi boost when I launch. The problem I have with the car isn't going fast enough - it's putting the car into bracket mode. I can't seem to get it off the line with any consistency. I'm hoping this will help - along with a spool...

turbovanmanČ
09-22-2010, 07:46 PM
I don't have a trans brake, I brake torque the car up to about 5psi boost when I launch. The problem I have with the car isn't going fast enough - it's putting the car into bracket mode. I can't seem to get it off the line with any consistency. I'm hoping this will help - along with a spool...

Get your turbonator cal working properly, :p

ShelGame
09-24-2010, 09:50 PM
It works properly! The 2-step just doesn't hold RPM accurately enough for me. I want to get the spark-cut working, I think it will be much better for racing.

OK, sorry, thread hijack over...

rx2mazda
10-21-2010, 07:20 PM
awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rampage16V
10-21-2010, 09:50 PM
I didn't realize any gain form this. If the wheels are being pushed down from the engine loading then the car will be coming up ..then the centre of gravity would become higher and more weight will come off the front end when the weight transfer from the launch takes place. Maybe its just so little it doesn't matter much or Maybe the intial push helps with initial bite...Just thinking out load

BadAssPerformance
10-21-2010, 10:05 PM
Same car complete different setup. To this day, my best 60 ft.s were with the torque link (traction bar) and strapped front suspension. I really didnt take the time to fine tune the system, but it worked. On a bad track it could go into tire shake and break axles. On a good track that wasnt a problem.
I had to stop using it cause at my power level it was too much stress on the engine block. I always thought it would work best with a trans brake or a manual trans.
I think it would be worth the effort on a car like your stocker if it is legal.

What was your 60' with the straps and w/o the bar mod? I think the straps added most of the benefit. Without the straps, I think this would be damgerous in a stick car.

Warren Stramer
11-16-2010, 01:41 AM
Because of the windage screen and crank scraper I run I tend to have higher than normal oil pump/intermediat shaft gear wear. Just about lost my engine to this problem but I caught it in time. I developed a small oil leak in my oil pan so since I had to remove it I did a gear inspection and found them both in poor shape.
So I hope this is the fix. It has to be an improvement over splash oiling. I drilled two .031 holes 180 degrees apart from the gear root to the center of the gear shaft, then gun drilled from the shaft end to intersect with the the gear holes, then drilled a feed hole thru the brg. journal and plugged the end of the shaft.

MiniMopar
11-16-2010, 01:52 AM
Good idea. There is also an oil return passage near there. I've thought about trying to splash some of that oil in the gear's direction, but that would require block drilling.

Warren Stramer
11-16-2010, 01:59 AM
Good idea. There is also an oil return passage near there. I've thought about trying to splash some of that oil in the gear's direction, but that would require block drilling.

I was originally going to drill a small hole from the main gallery toward the gears but I couldnt do it with the block in the car, and that would be harder to deal with if it didnt work out.
the way I ended up didnt burn my bridges. I can get more shafts.

bakes
11-16-2010, 02:17 AM
I wounder how many grams your able to bore out

Reeves
11-16-2010, 11:35 AM
Good idea Warren.

I have 4 shafts here at work that I've been meaning to lathe down to cut the weight down on them. I may do your mods to one of them to see how it works out.

Let us know how it goes for you!


I wounder how many grams your able to bore out

Koffel's Place used to gun drill the shafts but determined they were too weak for pro-longed racing (info from Hot Rod Magazine Complete 2.2 Review).

Plus, if you gun drill the entire shaft and then do Warren's mod, you'd be replacing all the metal you drilled out with oil. I don't know what the weight difference is there.

ShelGame
11-16-2010, 12:53 PM
Because of the windage screen and crank scraper I run I tend to have higher than normal oil pump/intermediat shaft gear wear.

Very nice!

Do you think the extra wear was due to the lack of splash? Or an increase in pump load due to more oil settling in the pan?

Looks like you also turned and shot peened the OD...

Warren Stramer
11-16-2010, 01:54 PM
Ive always turned the shaft down on these things but never gun drilled clear thru. The weight savings would be nill.
on my high RPM block I'm planning, I'm going to use Torrington needle brgs. both ends. Have the bearings picked out and everything figured out. Will have to do some tricky block machining but it will work.

I'll let you know if there is any problem with this 'fix' although I can't see a down side with directly oiling the gears.

Yes I do think the increased wear was due to lack of oil splash, and the increase in timing belt harmonics because of the big cam lobes and heavy pressure springs. I have the fix for that also and will post when I get that on the engine soon.
I'm thinking the oil filled gear mesh will absorb some of the gear to gear shock.

turbovanmanČ
11-16-2010, 02:46 PM
Because of the windage screen and crank scraper I run I tend to have higher than normal oil pump/intermediat shaft gear wear. Just about lost my engine to this problem but I caught it in time. I developed a small oil leak in my oil pan so since I had to remove it I did a gear inspection and found them both in poor shape.
So I hope this is the fix. It has to be an improvement over splash oiling. I drilled two .031 holes 180 degrees apart from the gear root to the center of the gear shaft, then gun drilled from the shaft end to intersect with the the gear holes, then drilled a feed hole thru the brg. journal and plugged the end of the shaft.

That's awesome, let us know how it works out.

Turbo224
11-16-2010, 02:57 PM
Awesome build, keep the pictures coming!

Subliminal
11-16-2010, 03:23 PM
Yeah! More pics! More pics!

Nice whip...maybe the nicest I've seen on the forums.

MiniMopar
11-16-2010, 06:16 PM
Seems like it could benefit from some sort of harmonic balancer, though that would add weight. :)

R/T
11-16-2010, 06:39 PM
Once again, Warren tops Himself.... Just wow.... :clap:

Reaper1
11-16-2010, 10:09 PM
How the heck am I NOT subscribed to this thread!? I've viewed it enough times that should have been automatic!! LOL

GREAT work Warren! :thumb: I have shown the pictures to some of my friends and they all have the same reaction...HOLY SH*T!! LOL

In looking at your intermediate shaft, is it modified any other way besides the holes? It sure looks like it, but maybe I'm just seeing things. (NM...the answer was in an above post you made...just didn't see it)

I'll bet drilling that hole in the root of that gear was tough without breaking the bit! How bad was it getting through the hardening, or was there any? I know that it is trivial on this part, but do you think there is any bennefit to rifle drill the intermediate shaft other than doing what you did? I'm also curious about doing this to the cam and crank if it can be done. I like the idea of making the moving parts as light as they can be without sacrificing their structural ability to do their job.

If/when you go to needle bearings, how are you going to tackle this issue since the way you are getting the oil will be gone? Or am I missing/forgetting something?

cordes
11-17-2010, 01:07 AM
Thanks again Warren. I'm consistently amazed by your work. Not only the quality and thoughtfulness of it, but the volume too. Very impressive.

Warren Stramer
11-17-2010, 02:32 AM
How the heck am I NOT subscribed to this thread!? I've viewed it enough times that should have been automatic!! LOL

GREAT work Warren! :thumb: I have shown the pictures to some of my friends and they all have the same reaction...HOLY SH*T!! LOL

In looking at your intermediate shaft, is it modified any other way besides the holes? It sure looks like it, but maybe I'm just seeing things. (NM...the answer was in an above post you made...just didn't see it)

I'll bet drilling that hole in the root of that gear was tough without breaking the bit! How bad was it getting through the hardening, or was there any? I know that it is trivial on this part, but do you think there is any bennefit to rifle drill the intermediate shaft other than doing what you did? I'm also curious about doing this to the cam and crank if it can be done. I like the idea of making the moving parts as light as they can be without sacrificing their structural ability to do their job.

If/when you go to needle bearings, how are you going to tackle this issue since the way you are getting the oil will be gone? Or am I missing/forgetting something?

I think drilling the whole length of the shaft would be of no benefit. A moment of inertia thing, removing such a small amount from the center of mass would be wasting your time. I do always turn down and remove the bumps from the shaft, (to about .750 diam) and then shot blast it.
These shaft are not all that hard, they are made of some powdered or sintered iron, good for rubbing wear resistance but not shock loads. The teeth chip very easy.
I started drilling the .031 holes with tiny solid carbide bits but discovered I could drill them just as good with a new sharp Silver and Demming type regular bit. When you drill it the metal doesnt come off in curls but in powder..........Sorry to say, They are really cheep junk!
You can get Torrington needle brgs. with oil holes in the outer shell.
Here is a pic of the whole shaft.........

rx2mazda
11-17-2010, 11:24 AM
When is someone gonna make a billett one? I mean ALL our engines use one........

135sohc
11-17-2010, 02:02 PM
when is someone gonna make a billett one? I mean all our engines use one........

+1...

Reeves
11-17-2010, 03:45 PM
When is someone gonna make a billett one? I mean ALL our engines use one........

Someone could make some then almost no one would buy them due to the expense.


Just sayin.....

And/or the one's that did buy them would b*tch about something......

Shadow
11-17-2010, 03:52 PM
Someone could make some then almost no one would buy them due to the expense.


Just sayin.....

And/or the one's that did buy them would b*tch about something......

LMAO!:lol: :confused::o:( Actually sad though, how right you are.......

csxtra
11-17-2010, 04:28 PM
Someone could make some then almost no one would buy them due to the expense.

Just sayin.....

And/or the one's that did buy them would b*tch about something......

Why make a custom one when a ported stock intermediate shaft works so well?:bolt:

135sohc
11-17-2010, 04:31 PM
I'd take one. Little bothering that everything else on the bottom end will be new and/or refreshed but still having to roll with that potential time bomb...

Reeves
11-17-2010, 04:49 PM
Why make a custom one when a ported stock intermediate shaft works so well?:bolt:

:ban:

:bolt:

Shadow
11-17-2010, 04:56 PM
Why make a custom one when a ported stock intermediate shaft works so well?:bolt:

Good point! :eyebrows:

Always nice to have options, though! :clap:

turbovanmanČ
11-17-2010, 07:17 PM
When is someone gonna make a billett one? I mean ALL our engines use one........

The only reason I could see not using a billet one is it could be harder than the oil pump drive and thus kill the oil pump drive very fast, IE running a roller cam on a stock flat tappet cam distributor gear, ala SBC, so if that was the case, we'd have to have a new oil pump gear made too.


Someone could make some then almost no one would buy them due to the expense.


Just sayin.....

And/or the one's that did buy them would b*tch about something......

Damn, too true, :(

rx2mazda
11-17-2010, 07:32 PM
There are a few of us that would buy one. I would agree not many!

cordes
11-17-2010, 09:35 PM
Why make a custom one when a ported stock intermediate shaft works so well?:bolt:
:clap:



There are a few of us that would buy one. I would agree not many!

I think these int. shafts are a ways off. Think of how hard it is to find 3.50FD sets for a hybrid trans right now. None of us want to pay for that to be made yet and there is probably a much greater demand there. I think we are about 2 years off from the 525 ring gears being reasonable for guys to pay for, but by that time how many will be left?

Shadow
11-17-2010, 10:36 PM
:clap:




I think these int. shafts are a ways off. Think of how hard it is to find 3.50FD sets for a hybrid trans right now. None of us want to pay for that to be made yet and there is probably a much greater demand there. I think we are about 2 years off from the 525 ring gears being reasonable for guys to pay for, but by that time how many will be left?

I didn't reralize 3.50 FD's were that hard to find.

rx2mazda
11-17-2010, 11:51 PM
Lengel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gasketmaster
11-18-2010, 01:48 AM
I'm thinking external belt driven oil pump and distributor like the big kids :D

If anybody can do it......Warren's the one :clap:

Warren Stramer
11-23-2010, 02:09 PM
A couple people asked me how well my engine idled with the new cam, so I shot a short video. This is at about 850 rpm.............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=terYMkUVjgg

You can hear the noise of the solid lash adjusters when the camera is close to the valve cover. the lash is set at .014int. and .016ex.

BadAssPerformance
11-23-2010, 02:28 PM
Awesome Warren! I love the distinct sound the 8V T-M motors make :amen:

Juggy
11-23-2010, 03:14 PM
awesome!!! sounds sort of like my 2.5 G head with open DP...makes me want to post the video of my buddy runnin it..lol. altho your sounds WAY more throatier on the throttle :evil:

Shadow
11-23-2010, 03:20 PM
Very nice! Idles a lot more evenly than I would have expected. :clap:

Reeves
11-23-2010, 03:30 PM
:thumb::thumb:

turboshad
11-23-2010, 03:32 PM
I'm surprised it runs at all with that hacked up wiring job. ;) ;) (I felt that needed two winks)


That sounds pretty dang smooth Warren. :nod: Do find the throttle response is better with the ITBs?

turbovanmanČ
11-23-2010, 03:47 PM
Awesome, :hail:

Do you have any pics of your trans pan, I want to make a new one this winter, I've finally got an aluminium welder, :nod:

Reaper1
11-23-2010, 04:21 PM
Awesome....that is all....

rx2mazda
11-23-2010, 04:39 PM
Now I know the sequence needed to start your car.....muuhaaahaaa!

omni_840
11-23-2010, 05:04 PM
Now I know the sequence needed to start your car.....muuhaaahaaa!

:lol:

Very nice sounding:clap:

Warren Stramer
11-23-2010, 05:18 PM
Awesome Warren! I love the distinct sound the 8V T-M motors make :amen:

As long as it didnt sound like a Honda I was happy.

thedon809
11-23-2010, 08:51 PM
Cammed 8v's do sound badass.

AzShadow
11-23-2010, 09:02 PM
wow :clap: your car is truly an inspiration

BadAssPerformance
11-23-2010, 09:12 PM
As long as it didnt sound like a Honda I was happy.

LOL, I dont think thats possible... such a distinct engine to hear :)

mech1nxh
11-27-2010, 07:44 PM
A couple people asked me how well my engine idled with the new cam, so I shot a short video. This is at about 850 rpm.............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=terYMkUVjgg

You can hear the noise of the solid lash adjusters when the camera is close to the valve cover. the lash is set at .014int. and .016ex.


PREFACE...
No lack of respect to all.

Belt tracking = true @ idle... +/- 4 % deflection at? 7k?...

"Should equate" to - .001 intake, -.002 EXHAUST.

dUH, sorry, Cam base circle ? (if I may impose)

Directconnection
11-27-2010, 08:07 PM
Warren, can you post up the pictures here in your project build thread of your tube header, cylinder head pix, and other related things? I tried showing a few people your work at my shop, but it takes forever to find the thread(s) if I actually can...

Warren Stramer
11-28-2010, 01:39 AM
PREFACE...
No lack of respect to all.

Belt tracking = true @ idle... +/- 4 % deflection at? 7k?...

"Should equate" to - .001 intake, -.002 EXHAUST.

dUH, sorry, Cam base circle ? (if I may impose)

Sorry, excuse my stupidity but I'm not following you??

Shadow
11-28-2010, 09:55 AM
Sorry, excuse my stupidity but I'm not following you??

I think he's trying to say you have variable cam timing?

gasketmaster
11-28-2010, 09:04 PM
Sorry, excuse my stupidity but I'm not following you??

What HE said :D

Warren Stramer
11-28-2010, 09:07 PM
Warren, can you post up the pictures here in your project build thread of your tube header, cylinder head pix, and other related things? I tried showing a few people your work at my shop, but it takes forever to find the thread(s) if I actually can...


Here you go, you asked for it!

thedon809
11-28-2010, 09:12 PM
I came.

Directconnection
11-28-2010, 09:20 PM
You're missing a few pix of your mousetrap setup :D But this will do :thumb:

onerippinturbo2
11-28-2010, 09:53 PM
holy smoke, all that looks awesome, really words can't explain how it all looks and it makes me feel stupid trying to put a definition to it all, such attention to detail and i cant even start on the header,wow words cant describe it. your work is outstanding to say the least, now i gotta go and sob in the fetal position while mumbling.

Vigo
11-28-2010, 10:00 PM
Its like a pile of awesome came out of my computer screen and knocked me over backwards.


I came.

Concise and effective portrayal. :D

Reaper1
11-28-2010, 10:14 PM
Yup....need to do the towels again...

spyder
11-28-2010, 11:13 PM
Here you go, you asked for it!

WOW !!

http://i55.tinypic.com/9hmo45.jpg

x.Gen
11-29-2010, 12:13 AM
:ban: you're making us all look like a bunch of amateur hacks here...

custom valvetrain girdle? that has to be a TM first, at least publicized on the boards. what, do you live in the machine shop? good grief man.

turboshad
11-29-2010, 12:53 AM
Here you go, you asked for it!

One of the most win posts I've seen on T-M ever! :shock:

Like I've said before, I'm glad I have a few years to "try" to catch up but I'm starting to wonder if I ever will. You've set a bar that I'll need a space suit to jump over. :hail:

BadAssPerformance
11-29-2010, 01:35 AM
Here you go, you asked for it!

:hail:

135sohc
11-29-2010, 02:29 AM
Getting all tingly inside every time I view this thread :love:

Reeves
11-29-2010, 02:37 PM
:hail::hail:

:love::love:

:confused:

:amen:

Warren Stramer
11-30-2010, 10:01 PM
I get alot of requests for photos, so I'm going to start dumping them here as time allows, here you go glhs0426............

BadAssPerformance
11-30-2010, 10:04 PM
BTW Warren, When I first saw your XE in person that Intake was what I drooled over the most :nod:

jackerman
11-30-2010, 10:15 PM
car is awsome

Reaper1
12-01-2010, 11:29 AM
I didn't realize there was that much involved with the ITB setup! That is much more intricate than I had imagined...and WAY better! LOL

turboshad
12-01-2010, 11:40 AM
Warren, what's the passage at the rear of the ITB plate for? My guess is a vacuum port but doesn't it show a lower pressure than what a "stagnant" manifold source would due to the higher velocity at that point in the system? Or is it quite unstable due to the dynamic nature of each port? Do you have an external reservoir that stabilizes the signal giving more of what we are used to seeing in a manifold or is it still a lower average? I guess there is no real alternative to record the pressure post throttle plate but I'm curious about your experience with it.

Warren Stramer
12-01-2010, 01:26 PM
Warren, what's the passage at the rear of the ITB plate for? My guess is a vacuum port but doesn't it show a lower pressure than what a "stagnant" manifold source would due to the higher velocity at that point in the system? Or is it quite unstable due to the dynamic nature of each port? Do you have an external reservoir that stabilizes the signal giving more of what we are used to seeing in a manifold or is it still a lower average? I guess there is no real alternative to record the pressure post throttle plate but I'm curious about your experience with it.

The main plate is milled out hollow from the rear mounting bolt holes back to the welded-on tube. The tube is slotted open where it joins the plate, the volume of the hollow plate and tube is the total vacuum chamber.
The small holes drilled from the throttle bores to the vac chamber provide the chamber with cyl. to cyl. average manifold pressure. (either negative or positive).
No external vac. reservoir was necessary, the tube and chamber damped the cyl.-cyl. 'crosstalk' very well as it turned out.
While the closed throttle vac. signal is not as steady as a single throttle system, it is surprisingly steady, but because there are four throttles to bypass air at idle, the vac. signal is weak. (2-3" @ 800 rpm with big cam).
Fortunately The Electromotive software has a TPS/MAP blend routine that allows the tuner to assign differing amounts of authority to the MAP or TPS signal voltages during idle and throttle opening transitions.

With the new head, cam, and bigger intake, the throttle bores are now too small. I plan to bore them bigger and install larger trumpets, just didnt have time to do it yet. I'm running now as a restrictor plate engine.

bakes
12-01-2010, 02:57 PM
The main plate is milled out hollow from the rear mounting bolt holes back to the welded on tube. The tube is slotted open where it joins the plate, the volume of the hollow plate and tube is the total vacuum chamber.
The small holes drilled from the throttle bores to the vac chamber provide the chamber with cyl. to cyl. average manifold pressure. (either negative or positive).
No external vac. reservoir was necessary, the tube and chamber damped the cyl.-cyl. 'crosstalk' very well as it turned out.
While the closed throttle vac. signal is not as steady as a single throttle system, it is surprisingly steady, but because there are four throttles to bypass air at idle, the vac. signal is weak. (2-3" @ 800 rpm with big cam).
Fortunately The Electromotive software has a TPS/MAP blend routine that allows the tuner to assign differing amounts of authority to the MAP or TPS signal voltages during idle and throttle opening transitions.

With the new head, cam, and bigger intake, the throttle bores are now too small. I plan to bore them bigger and install larger trumpets, just didnt have time to do it yet. I'm running now as a restrictor plate engine.

Warren you need to go to the next upgade and loose the throttle butterflies
and move to a rotating drum with ports cut into the drum so when you rotate them to WOT there is just 4 big holes feeding
the monster!!

86seeS
12-01-2010, 04:15 PM
most amazing 2.2 ever....... wow

Reeves
12-01-2010, 04:21 PM
most amazing 2.2 ever....... wow

x infinity ^2(+.2 = 8)

GLHNSLHT2
12-01-2010, 05:06 PM
Warren you need to go to the next upgade and loose the throttle butterflies
and move to a rotating drum with ports cut into the drum so when you rotate them to WOT there is just 4 big holes feeding
the monster!!


Barrell throttles. Indy cars use them. I'm assuming F1 and all the other top tier racing does as well.

glhs0426
12-01-2010, 05:34 PM
WOW! I did not realize the throttle body was one piece! It is very similar to what was in my head to build for my 2.4L. Amazing work!

Warren Stramer
12-01-2010, 05:45 PM
Barrell throttles. Indy cars use them. I'm assuming F1 and all the other top tier racing does as well.

You mean like this?

Dang it, You guys are giving me crazy ideas! cut-it-out!

bakes
12-01-2010, 08:12 PM
You mean like this?

Dang it, You guys are giving me crazy ideas! cut-it-out!
YUP!!!
I can take it a little farther and give you a real bad idea!!!
In 88 i was working for Diamond engines and the guy who work there made a alky motor with rotorary barrel valves the problem was the tech at the time couldn't support the Rpms that the motor wanted to rev too he spilt 3 soild alu. blocks in two.

GLHNSLHT2
12-01-2010, 11:29 PM
and from what I've heard they're like on-off switches.

Vigo
12-02-2010, 12:22 AM
Fortunately The Electromotive software has a TPS/MAP blend routine that allows the tuner to assign differing amounts of authority to the MAP or TPS signal voltages during idle and throttle opening transitions.

Wow, that is neat.

Reaper1
12-02-2010, 12:38 PM
They make a bolt on rotary valve set-up for the Ford 5.0. I saw it about 10 years ago. Interesting to say the least.

turbovanmanČ
12-02-2010, 02:33 PM
That header is pure sex, :love:

You missed the pics of your trans pan, ;)



Sorry, excuse my stupidity but I'm not following you??

I think he means you can see the belt deflecting at idle, so at 7000K, you can imagine there's a bit more, so that will affect your cam timing etc.




With the new head, cam, and bigger intake, the throttle bores are now too small. I plan to bore them bigger and install larger trumpets, just didnt have time to do it yet. I'm running now as a restrictor plate engine.

That's what I was going to ask. :nod:


They make a bolt on rotary valve set-up for the Ford 5.0. I saw it about 10 years ago. Interesting to say the least.

Yeah, I saw that, more power, more mpg and oil life went thru the roof.

Warren Stramer
12-02-2010, 06:43 PM
You missed the pics of your trans pan, ;)

Sorry Simon, I forgot. here you go, Not much to see.

turbovanmanČ
12-02-2010, 07:02 PM
Is it steel? If so, I thought you made an aluminium one?

Warren Stramer
12-02-2010, 08:04 PM
Is it steel? If so, I thought you made an aluminium one?
Nope, thats aluminum.

Directconnection
12-02-2010, 08:08 PM
Nope, thats aluminum.

Ok Warren, you got me on that one. How did you make the "ribs" in the bottom of your pan? I know "how" to, but that would mean I need access to a press and a torch to aneal the aluminum beforehand. (I worked for a short time at a shipyard running a few presses, brakes, and shears.... but 6 months isn't enough time to be an expert)

Pat
12-02-2010, 11:07 PM
Ok Warren, you got me on that one. How did you make the "ribs" in the bottom of your pan? I know "how" to, but that would mean I need access to a press and a torch to aneal the aluminum beforehand. (I worked for a short time at a shipyard running a few presses, brakes, and shears.... but 6 months isn't enough time to be an expert)

Bead roller?

Directconnection
12-02-2010, 11:46 PM
Bead roller?

Wasn't sure he had all that kind of fabrication equipment.... but then again, maybe he does. Figured he made his own "homeschool" style :D

Warren Stramer
12-02-2010, 11:53 PM
Wasn't sure he had all that kind of fabrication equipment.... but then again, maybe he does. Figured he made his own "homeschool" style :D

Yup, bead roller. Gotta be pretty self sufficient out here in the bush.

turbovanmanČ
12-03-2010, 12:17 AM
Nope, thats aluminum.

DAMN, :hail::hail::hail::hail:

Got a spare flange kicking around you want to sell? :nod:

Warren Stramer
12-03-2010, 12:46 AM
DAMN, :hail::hail::hail::hail:

Got a spare flange kicking around you want to sell? :nod:

So sorry Simon, dont have any spares:D

thedon809
12-04-2010, 03:15 PM
Interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta6iJiKbfHg

bakes
12-04-2010, 03:29 PM
Great now i got everyone looking for 2 1/2 " ball valves from home hardware store to repladce the TB's:D

turbovanmanČ
12-04-2010, 04:15 PM
Interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta6iJiKbfHg

That rev's quick.

Are they really that much better?

bakes
12-04-2010, 04:31 PM
NOw take the barreled TB like in the vid and add stand off injection and now your getting into the F1 world.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeC9gnuQ-dY&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFm0m6sbOi8&feature=player_embedded

x.Gen
12-04-2010, 05:41 PM
good grief. more automotive porn.

forget the box of tissues. I need a roll of paper towels.

bakes
12-04-2010, 06:01 PM
good grief. more automotive porn.

forget the box of tissues. I need a roll of paper towels.

Just get out the wet Vac.

Reeves
12-04-2010, 06:22 PM
Just get out the wet Vac.

x2 :love:

GLHNSLHT2
12-05-2010, 11:44 AM
That rev's quick.


I thought it revved kind of slow still IMO. Sounds like a 350 chevy too :)

rx2mazda
12-05-2010, 12:36 PM
I thought it revved kind of slow still IMO. Sounds like a 350 chevy too :)

+1. especially off idle.

R/T
12-09-2010, 10:39 AM
After looking at Warren's car, I realize how full of FAIL my cars are. :(

The TM world will implode if Warren's car and Brian's Shadow are in the same place, same time..... :hail:

Garffus
12-09-2010, 11:32 AM
Wow what an amazing and beautifully built car!

NeonShowCar
12-09-2010, 01:14 PM
Warren - what a piece of art. The car looks beautiful, could eat off the engine bay. WOW - awesome work!

-Garry W. McKissick

Shadow
12-09-2010, 01:21 PM
The TM world will implode if Warren's car and Brian's Shadow are in the same place, same time..... :hail:

SDAC 2011 Baby! :thumb:

rx2mazda
12-09-2010, 02:00 PM
SDAC 2011 Baby! :thumb:

Brian, can you confirm this please? :p

Warren Stramer
12-09-2010, 11:54 PM
interior

ShelGame
12-10-2010, 12:02 AM
I have up-close pictures of that shifter from long ago over on TD.com. I didn't even realize it was yours.

Once again, every single piece of this car is a work of art all by itself.

What's the string hanging down on the LH side for?

Warren Stramer
12-10-2010, 01:03 AM
I have up-close pictures of that shifter from long ago over on TD.com. I didn't even realize it was yours.

Once again, every single piece of this car is a work of art all by itself.

What's the string hanging down on the LH side for?

Park brake release, otherwise I cant reach it when I'm strapped in.

turbovanmanČ
12-10-2010, 01:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFm0m6sbOi8&feature=player_embedded

That vid always give me goosebumps, :D


I thought it revved kind of slow still IMO. Sounds like a 350 chevy too :)

Rev's quicker than a stocker and doesn't sound anything like a 350, sounds like a Subie on roids.

GLHNSLHT2
12-10-2010, 01:58 AM
oooh quicker than a stocker. still kinda slow. My 2.5 8v revs quicker. And after watching it again it still sounds like a 350 chev to me.

ShelGame
12-10-2010, 10:44 AM
Park brake release, otherwise I cant reach it when I'm strapped in.

Ahh, I see. You use that as a line-lock?

135sohc
12-10-2010, 10:54 AM
Its like car porn only better :hail:

Warren Stramer
12-10-2010, 12:20 PM
Ahh, I see. You use that as a line-lock?

No Rob, I only use park brk. to hold car in burn out box. I stage the car with two line locks that lock all four wheels against boost.

Reaper1
12-10-2010, 12:23 PM
It still has the rear sunvisors!! LOL

Warren, I noticed the braces for the door windows. Are they still glass? If so, why the braces? I figure you probably have them locked in the up position and have removed the regulators, but if they are glass do they flex that much?

(on a side note I know that anything over 110 and I can't roll the windows up in my Daytona because the pressure sucks/pushes them too far off track at the top!)

Warren Stramer
12-10-2010, 12:24 PM
I have up-close pictures of that shifter from long ago over on TD.com. I didn't even realize it was yours.



Rob, The 'up close ' shifter pics may be the ones I lost way back when my computer crashed. Were they shots of the shifter only, not mounted in the car? If so could you post them here so I can recover them?

Reaper1
12-10-2010, 12:28 PM
No Rob, I only use park brk. to hold car in burn out box. I stage the car with two line locks that lock all four wheels against boost.

Interesting. I figured with the move to manual brakes you would have done away with the cross split system. I know why it's there on production cars, but what is your opinion on race cars and such? I am wondering form the standpoint of adjustability for bias and simplicty of the system as a whole. I've not found an adjustable proportioning valve that works with a cross split system..you always have to run 2, which to me adds complexity, room for error, and an uneeded variable.

Reaper1
12-10-2010, 12:29 PM
Rob, The 'up close ' shifter pics may be the ones I lost way back when my computer crashed. Were they shots of the shifter only, not mounted in the car? If so could you post them here so I can recover them?

I think I have those pictures as well, but they are on another computer that is in storage. :(

Warren Stramer
12-10-2010, 12:31 PM
It still has the rear sunvisors!! LOL

Warren, I noticed the braces for the door windows. Are they still glass? If so, why the braces? I figure you probably have them locked in the up position and have removed the regulators, but if they are glass do they flex that much?

(on a side note I know that anything over 110 and I can't roll the windows up in my Daytona because the pressure sucks/pushes them too far off track at the top!)

braces are so the lexan doesnt flop around, and to keep the factory arch in them.
In a few weeks I will show my latest fab job on the rear hatch. Also in the process of building a functional rear wing for aero purposes.:eyebrows:

Warren Stramer
12-10-2010, 12:35 PM
Interesting. I figured with the move to manual brakes you would have done away with the cross split system. I know why it's there on production cars, but what is your opinion on race cars and such? I am wondering form the standpoint of adjustability for bias and simplicty of the system as a whole. I've not found an adjustable proportioning valve that works with a cross split system..you always have to run 2, which to me adds complexity, room for error, and an uneeded variable.

All True, I am waiting till I build my light weight (and I mean LIGHT weight) rear axle to change out the cross split brks. Just havnt got to it yet.

Reeves
12-10-2010, 12:43 PM
All True, I am waiting till I build my light weight (and I mean LIGHT weight) rear axle to change out the cross split brks. Just havnt got to it yet.

Gonna use the Harley brakes? :eyebrows:

Reaper1
12-10-2010, 12:48 PM
braces are so the lexan doesnt flop around, and to keep the factory arch in them.
In a few weeks I will show my latest fab job on the rear hatch. Also in the process of building a functional rear wing for aero purposes.:eyebrows:

Ah...makes sense!

I know the stock Laser wing isn't functional at all. When I owned an '84 XE (looked EXACTLY like yours actually!) it would vibrate at highways speeds, meaning the air was turbulent in tha area and it wasn't designed to do anything with it.

Is the rear of your car feeling "light" at higher speeds? I know my '90 that doesn't have a stock rear wing wasn't nearly as stable as my '88 Shelby Z. Not a nice feeling when the rear feels like it wants to skip out at 125mph!!


All True, I am waiting till I build my light weight (and I mean LIGHT weight) rear axle to change out the cross split brks. Just havnt got to it yet.

Gotcha! :thumb: Are you looking at doing something similar to Mr. Slowe or even switching it up farther from that?

Eventually I think going to manual brakes will be an upgrade for my car for what I want to do with it. However the system will have to be completely redesigned from the pedal on! I think it will give better feel, modulation, open up room in the engine bay, and the system I have in mind will be more than adequate for stopping the car on a road course over and over again!

Warren Stramer
12-10-2010, 01:16 PM
Ah...makes sense!

I know the stock Laser wing isn't functional at all. When I owned an '84 XE (looked EXACTLY like yours actually!) it would vibrate at highways speeds, meaning the air was turbulent in tha area and it wasn't designed to do anything with it.

Is the rear of your car feeling "light" at higher speeds? I know my '90 that doesn't have a stock rear wing wasn't nearly as stable as my '88 Shelby Z. Not a nice feeling when the rear feels like it wants to skip out at 125mph!!

First off, stock Laser spoiler is a non functional and heavy. I suppose it looks ok but thats about it.
Unlike most guys here I like bracket racing and that is mostly the racing I do. Sometimes in order NOT to brake-out you must be HARD on the brakes at the finish line. With the light rear end of the car (and getting lighter) I can damn near get air under the rear wheels on a hard brake apply....not good at 140! I need a little down force at speed and the aero wing should even make it cut the air better.
Also the reason I dont go to little skinnies on the back, with them you have essentially no rear brakes in a hard stop, there is no tire contact patch, and the thought of getting crossed up at speed with them skinnies scares me. Just dont think it is worth it for the few hundreds its worth in ET.
And no offense,I think they look dumb:p

As for the rear axle plan....Think titanium,aluminum,and Harley calipers.(got some from James:thumb:)

I really am liking the manual brake conversion for racing. I have much better control for staging now. I couldnt supply the booster anyway with this cam........No vacuum.

Reeves
12-10-2010, 01:20 PM
I really am liking the manual brake conversion for racing. I have much better control for staging now. I couldnt supply the booster anyway with this cam........No vacuum.



I love my manual brakes. And the manual steering. Even on the street! It's such a light car, it's like it's SUPPOSED to be this way! Like the 78 OMNI I robbed the parts from :thumb:

dds78910
12-10-2010, 01:38 PM
Rob, The 'up close ' shifter pics may be the ones I lost way back when my computer crashed. Were they shots of the shifter only, not mounted in the car? If so could you post them here so I can recover them?

I think my dad has some he took after you built it and before you put it in your car, or at least he use to. I'm driving to SD tomorrow and I can find out, if he has them I can post up the pics.

I lost the pics of you car I took 8 years ago when my dad and went to your shop.:( I did alot of moving around up until 5 years ago, must have lost them during a move.

Reeves
12-12-2010, 02:20 PM
interior

No halo or a-pillar bars yet? They not strict on that out your way?

BadAssPerformance
12-12-2010, 02:27 PM
No halo or a-pillar bars yet? They not strict on that out your way?

NHRA - 5 points is good to 10.00 or 135mph

(not sure about 1/8)

BTW does Jon Moore have a cage?

Warren Stramer
12-12-2010, 02:46 PM
No halo or a-pillar bars yet? They not strict on that out your way?

Ya got them all planned out, just not installing them till I go 9.99 or quicker. Then they will bounce me. Some tracks are strict like BIR, and Interstate, others not so much.
When I start going nines consistently they will make me comply or slow down.

Reeves
12-12-2010, 03:04 PM
NHRA - 5 points is good to 10.00 or 135mph

(not sure about 1/8)

BTW does Jon Moore have a cage?

Right, but we usually do well over 135 before we get to the 9's.

Yeah, he put in a 5 point in his black Neon then started running high 9's with it. LOL. So now he took that powerplant out and put it in his green Neon race car. Full cage. Running mid to high 9's.


Ya got them all planned out, just not installing them till I go 9.99 or quicker. Then they will bounce me. Some tracks are strict like BIR, and Interstate, others not so much.
When I start going nines consistently they will make me comply or slow down.

Sweet.

I kept getting in trouble for going over 135mph.

BadAssPerformance
12-12-2010, 03:28 PM
Right, but we usually do well over 135 before we get to the 9's.

Yeah, he put in a 5 point in his black Neon then started running high 9's with it. LOL. So now he took that powerplant out and put it in his green Neon race car. Full cage. Running mid to high 9's.


So his race car (black one) is running? Sweet!

BadAssPerformance
12-12-2010, 03:29 PM
Ya got them all planned out, just not installing them till I go 9.99 or quicker. Then they will bounce me. Some tracks are strict like BIR, and Interstate, others not so much.
When I start going nines consistently they will make me comply or slow down.

Good idea to wait till it is needed. I did the opposite, went 11.62 then added the weight and the car slowed down :(

Reeves
12-12-2010, 03:34 PM
So his race car (black one) is running? Sweet!

The 98 black Neon R/T was his street car. It orginally didn't have a cage and he was running LOW 10's with it. He caged it and welded the diff and started running high 9's.

His race car is a green (for now) Neon. He's been working on it for years. He took the power plant out of his black street car and put it in this one to finish off the season last year. Running mid to high 9's. New power plant over the winter I do believe.

BadAssPerformance
12-12-2010, 03:40 PM
Gotcha. So which one is on our times page? We should have both!

Reeves
12-12-2010, 04:13 PM
Gotcha. So which one is on our times page? We should have both!

The street car!

ShelGame
12-12-2010, 10:27 PM
Rob, The 'up close ' shifter pics may be the ones I lost way back when my computer crashed. Were they shots of the shifter only, not mounted in the car? If so could you post them here so I can recover them?

Yep, shifter only. I copied them way back. Didn't even realize it was yours until I saw the interior shot. Here you go...

ShelGame
12-12-2010, 10:29 PM
Interesting. I figured with the move to manual brakes you would have done away with the cross split system. I know why it's there on production cars, but what is your opinion on race cars and such? I am wondering form the standpoint of adjustability for bias and simplicty of the system as a whole. I've not found an adjustable proportioning valve that works with a cross split system..you always have to run 2, which to me adds complexity, room for error, and an uneeded variable.

I ditched the cross-split system when I converted to manual brakes. I just use an adjustable bias box. I have a line-loc on the rear, but it doesn't hold for crap. I drag the rears thru the water box with the skinnies on.

ShelGame
12-12-2010, 10:33 PM
Also the reason I dont go to little skinnies on the back, with them you have essentially no rear brakes in a hard stop, there is no tire contact patch, and the thought of getting crossed up at speed with them skinnies scares me. Just dont think it is worth it for the few hundreds its worth in ET.
And no offense,I think they look dumb:p


They do look dumb. And they don't hold in the water box. See my post above.

BadAssPerformance
12-12-2010, 10:36 PM
They do look dumb. And they don't hold for crap in the water box. See my post above. I drag them thru the water with the line-loc on.

Tighten up the brakes? Set deeper in the water? Hit it harder? Mine work fine.

I used to think they looked stupid on RWD cars too, but I guess over the years they grew on me, and I like the weight savings :thumb:

ShelGame
12-12-2010, 10:40 PM
I've opened up the bias box to full pressure in the rear. The tires don't spin, I've been told I drag them. I guess I could get better tires. They are pretty small diameter (24's), and I run them at 36psi.

BadAssPerformance
12-12-2010, 10:44 PM
Do they make you go thru the water and burn after the water or will they let you spin in it at the end of the box? Big difference. At tracks that make you pull thru gotta spin the tires good on teh way thru it to get them wet. IIR mine are 25 or 25.5 in and usually run 40psi

Reaper1
12-12-2010, 10:47 PM
I ditched the cross-split system when I converted to manual brakes. I just use an adjustable bias box. I have a line-loc on the rear, but it doesn't hold for crap. I drag the rears thru the water box with the skinnies on.

I'm thinking of using this for a car that does road course and auto-x duty. It'll see a drag stip too, but not as its main focus.

Warren Stramer
12-12-2010, 11:46 PM
Yep, shifter only. I copied them way back. Didn't even realize it was yours until I saw the interior shot. Here you go...

Hey thanks Rob. :)

Reeves
12-13-2010, 10:18 AM
Tighten up the brakes? Set deeper in the water? Hit it harder? Mine work fine.

Mine work pretty good too....but occasionally I do drag them. Looks like a dog scooting his butt on the floor....



I used to think they looked stupid on RWD cars too, but I guess over the years they grew on me, and I like the weight savings :thumb:


I used to think they looked stupid on FWD cars. But then they grew on me. x2 :thumb:

Shadow
12-13-2010, 03:15 PM
Ya got them all planned out, just not installing them till I go 9.99 or quicker. Then they will bounce me. Some tracks are strict like BIR, and Interstate, others not so much.
When I start going nines consistently they will make me comply or slow down.

This is what I was also hoping to be able to do, but the techs mentioned the MPH thing to me when I was at the track last, so I'm thinking I'm toast!

Although, now that I think of it, I had the roll bar in before ever needing it so I would already be carrying the weight and not have to get 100lb heavier right when I reach the beach!

So I'm thinking the same would apply for what I'm looking at doing now.

Since you guys are all over the cage thing, there was something I was wondering about.

The two rear bars that support the main hoop and sit directly below the cross bar (not the ones that go right to the rear) are they mandatory?

I know for a roll bar (5-8pt) they are not. Which is how you get a 5 or 6 pt roll bar. I can't find anywhere that specifically states that you need them?

Reeves
12-13-2010, 03:21 PM
Since you guys are all over the cage thing, there was something I was wondering about.

The two rear bars that support the main hoop and sit directly below the cross bar (not the ones that go right to the rear) are they mandatory?

I know for a roll bar (5-8pt) they are not. Which is how you get a 5 or 6 pt roll bar. I can't find anywhere that specifically states that you need them?

Yes, the lateral bars are mandatory when going to cage.

Shadow
12-13-2010, 03:25 PM
Yes, the lateral bars are mandatory when going to cage.

Shazbot! There's another 20lbs I'm going to have to make up for!:(

Reeves, what material did you use?

Reeves
12-13-2010, 04:04 PM
Shazbot! There's another 20lbs I'm going to have to make up for!:(

Reeves, what material did you use?

All chrome-moly except for the 1/8" 6x6 floor plates. Very light.

turboshad
12-13-2010, 04:18 PM
Shazbot! There's another 20lbs I'm going to have to make up for!:(

Reeves, what material did you use?

Page 106. If using CM they only need to be 1 1/4" x .058. If you already have a MS bar then I don't know about rules on mixing materials. I would think it would be fine.

http://www.mydigitalpublication.com/publication/?m=1203&l=1

Warren Stramer
01-30-2011, 09:38 PM
Anybody know how much the rear quarter glass windows weigh on a G body?

Reaper1
01-30-2011, 11:37 PM
I have a few sets laying around and if I had to guess probably about 5# per side or so. They aren't all that bad, but if you're going for ultimate lightness, then I say "why not"!? LOL They aren't structural and come out pretty darn easy once you get to the nuts on the back side.

Shadow
01-30-2011, 11:41 PM
Anybody know how much the rear quarter glass windows weigh on a G body?

I saw this and was going to weigh one for you, but forgot that I moved them from downstairs to the outside back shed last summer.

I'll grab one tomorrow and throw it on the scale.

Warren Stramer
01-31-2011, 10:57 AM
I have a few sets laying around and if I had to guess probably about 5# per side or so. They aren't all that bad, but if you're going for ultimate lightness, then I say "why not"!? LOL They aren't structural and come out pretty darn easy once you get to the nuts on the back side.

Really!? they are bolted in? that would be great, I havent removed the trim to take a look. I thought they would be urathaned (glued) in like the hatch glass.

---------- Post added at 08:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 AM ----------


I saw this and was going to weigh one for you, but forgot that I moved them from downstairs to the outside back shed last summer.

I'll grab one tomorrow and throw it on the scale.

Thanks Rob, would be appreciated.

Warren Stramer
01-31-2011, 11:13 AM
I got this done so far, I'm now working on a functional rear wing, sorta like a pro stock style only smaller.

So far a 40lbs. weight removal. Was going to buy a glass hatch frame but it wouldnt support the wing without major reinforcements.

cordes
01-31-2011, 11:23 AM
Is that 40lbs. solely from the holes in the hatch, or is that from the glass too? What was the weight of each?

Shadow
01-31-2011, 11:31 AM
Hatch looks very slick! How much weight came out with just the hole saw?

The rear 1/4 glass is held in with butyl (+ speed nuts), or at least it should be. If I have one that hasn't had the butyl cleaned off yet I'll weigh it to try and get the most accurate #'s.

Warren Stramer
01-31-2011, 11:42 AM
Ok, The complete hatch with glass, trim,wing, and hinges weighed 81lbs. I took off 3lbs with the hole saw,got 1.5lbs. off by sculpting the hinges,the rubber weather seal weighed 3lbs., latch and key assbly-2.5lbs, factory glass weighes 26lbs.,lexan replacement weighs 10lbs., the original wing alone weighs 13lbs.
The complete hatch as you see in the pics now weighs 35lbs.

Removing weight is alot of work!, and not cheap. Total weight reduction came to 40lbs.

Opticon
01-31-2011, 11:46 AM
:confused: I can't believe you didn't use black hardware.


;)