first trip to track with the sundance

[southkurtk]

1989 Plymouth Sundance 2.5 t2 turbo. Spearco Front Mount. a555 Manual.
I am running the car on stock t2 electronics with a ecu outta a t1/auto new yorker. Everything else is stock. Stock injectors.
Kinda Disapointed was expecting atleast 15's even with the crappy ecu.
It was 68 degrees out in fl.


16.5 at 85 with a 2.5 foot 60 foot.

[southkurtk]

Was on 11psi.. forgot to add. Rims are 16 inch 2002 neon rt rims i believe painted bronze
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m16/southkurtk/101_7831.jpg
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http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m16/southkurtk/101_7842.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m16/southkurtk/101_7841.jpg

[BIG PSI]

That is a good looking car...
The 2.5 sixty foot is hurting you.
Even with oem tires and some practice you can drop the sixty foot times down to 2.2.
Then you ET's will be in the 15's

Chuck

[trbowgn]

Somethings not right. That car should be running in the 14s. What are you running for exhaust?
Mitsu or Garret Turbo? Is your cam timeing right?
85 MPH trap speed should equal a mid 15 if you hook right.

[dwh4784]

85mph is terrible for that setup. My log New Yorker with an auto would do more than that at less boost. Does it have a bone stock exhaust on it?

[trbowgn]

My 15.44 at 87Mph in the wagon was on a log setup with open exhaust and mp computer as the only mods so I agree with you dwh

[dwh4784]

Definitely time for an exhaust if it really is original! That should be the very first mod on any of these cars. That would net you huge gains with your already upgraded intercooler.

I'm not too sure how well a 2.5L performs on stock TII electronics either? With all of the calibration options out there these days you could probably get someone to make one that fits your setup much better.

[forcedfedmopar]

no other changes than the correct call will put that car into the 15s with ease. There are several members making cals as well as turbosunleashed and FWD performance. get one throw it in and report back!:clap:

[1984rampage]

Hey your in Orlando, so am I! But first off I see your intercooler piping looks mighty small. I'd try and get at least 2.5" piping in there. Secondly throw on at least a 2.5" exhaust! 15's should be EASY with that car

[southkurtk]

The car already has a 2.5 inch downpipe and exhaust no cat with a dynomax muffler. It has a t2 garret turbo. The intercooler piping is killing me i think. Maybe even leaking. I just took a bunch of piping i had laying around and threw something together so i can drive it. That will be my next upgrade. Than 40 overs with a ecu when i get a lil extra cash. All timing is correct. Checked multiple times. Car runs good. Cam timing at 13 degrees. I am gonna take it back to the track tomorrow night to see if i can do any better with hooking. Have really crappy pep boys tires on it.

[Directconnection]

Car runs good. Cam timing at 13 degrees.

13 degress? You mean your base ignition timing is 13 degrees?

If you have a 2.2 cal on your 2.5..... then there's one of your problems. A boost leak will be another major issue... more than you may think.

[southkurtk]

Ignition timing is at 13 degrees. That is what i meant . I know the cal is a big issue. but the 2.5 5 speed cal i had got shorted out and it is all i could find laying around the house.

[Spraynlog]

Ignition timing is at 13 degrees. That is what i meant . I know the cal is a big issue. but the 2.5 5 speed cal i had got shorted out and it is all i could find laying around the house.I really like the Shadow/Sundance 2 doors, that is a great looking car!

The above posters are correct, the 2.2 computer is really hurting you, the 2.5 has a much different fuel and spark curve than the 2.2, you might be running pretty lean. :eek: If I recall, +20 injectors work about right for a 2.2 cal on a 2.5 motor. It would be best to call Cindy at FWD or Chris at Turbos Unleashed and get the right computer for the car.:nod:

[southkurtk]

yeah i heard the 20 overs work good with it as well and i have a set of them. but when i install them the car bogs under boost like it is getting way to much fuel or something. I dont know if i have a defective set of injectors cuz i seem to have problems with fuel anytime i have ever installed them. I am waiting till i can afford 40 overs and a cal so i only have to buy one cal instead of getting one now. than get bigger injectors than buying another cal. I already have a 3 bar map from a previous car. I checked plugs and it doesnt seem to be running noticeable lean. but i am on 10-11psi and have a wonderful intercooler.

[southkurtk]

Bottom end also has forged pistons

[southkurtk]

this exact motor and set up ran 14.9 in a daytona with the correct computer.

[southkurtk]

So went back to the track tonight and got a 15.8 at 87. I swapped in a 2.5 cal from an 89 minivan turbo i found laying around. Ran alot better but still not getting much more on the mph.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m16/southkurtk/timeslip.jpg

[trbowgn]

Sweet you are going in the right direction.
What kind of Dynomax muffler are you running? Is it a straight through design?
I still think this should be an easy 14 second set up. 60" are pretty bad but your still not making the MPH you should be.
Have you figured out if you have a boost leak yet?

[Spraynlog]

The 2 MPH gain shows you picked up about 20 HP. Not bad for 11 PSI boost.
You could probably turn it up a pound or 2 with the 2.5 cal in there.

The 60' time is hurting you, maybe try putting a rubber spacer in the driver's rear coil spring, it'll help throw a bit of weight onto the passenger front on take off, and it's a cheap mod.:nod:

BTW, nice to see some civic slapping.:thumb:

[3Bar_Mopar]

What radiator is that?

[Vigo]

My stockish 2.2t2 /520 in the spirit on 11 psi trapped 86mph in similar weather a few weeks ago..

But on the other hand, my intercooled 2.5 / 520 in the Aries has run 15.2@91 on 7 psi.

[southkurtk]

So i got to work on the car yesterday and found out my turbo only had one bolt holding it on somehow, I just put the turbo on about a month ago when i changed head gaskets and swapped from a mitsu to the garret. So this i have no clue how happen cuz i am def not one to undertighten ANYTHING.lol. So i put all the bolts back on it. than i had some intercooler piping that was leaking. Fixed that. Front motor mount was completly destroyed. Changed that. I will go back to the track on friday and see the diff but it feels like a diff car now. I think low 15's high 14's here i come.


the radiator is a ebay 3 core performance one that is for a 92-00 civic made by csx racing. I love it the car never gets past halfway on the gauge unlike the stock one where it was always gettin hot. And i live in HOT HOT HOT florida.
link to radiator
http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=RAD-CIVIC9200-SHROUD-FAN&Category_Code=RADI

[southkurtk]

Sweet you are going in the right direction.
What kind of Dynomax muffler are you running? Is it a straight through design?
I still think this should be an easy 14 second set up. 60" are pretty bad but your still not making the MPH you should be.
Have you figured out if you have a boost leak yet?


Muffler is a straight through dynomax 2 1/2 in and out. It was on the car when i got it so im not sure exact which one.

[trbowgn]

As long as it is straight through you should be good.
Hopefully what you found will make the difference you need can't wait to here how it runs on Friday, good luck!

[3Bar_Mopar]

the radiator is a ebay 3 core performance one that is for a 92-00 civic made by csx racing. I love it the car never gets past halfway on the gauge unlike the stock one where it was always gettin hot. And i live in HOT HOT HOT florida.
link to radiator
http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=RAD-CIVIC9200-SHROUD-FAN&Category_Code=RADI

DUDE! YOU HAVE TO POST PICS OF THE INSTALL!!!!!!!!!!!111one

I've been wanting to do the exact same thing on mine for when I go with a front mount! I've been really curious to see how well the Honda rad works on a TD engine and what kind of clearance it has. I know those rads are TINY.

[3Bar_Mopar]

BTW...I'll leave this here. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-0LJKitvqM

[Spraynlog]

BTW...I'll leave this here. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-0LJKitvqMHaha! I thought that looked familiar. I've seen that Sundance run here at PIR. :nod:I think he was running race gas with no intercooler when I saw it.

[Dez]

I'll make the cal for you this week if I can. When are you going back to the track? I can even make a few cals and take the romulator with us to find the right one!

[southkurtk]

i dont have any pics of the radiator install, but it fits perfect. the only thing that sucks is making the lower hose. cuz the radiator i got the bottom outlet points up and the waterpump points down. I just used 2 hoses and hooked em together and had no problems.

Back to the track on friday. my goal is to go every fri and improve my time every week. lol. Let me know when you can go man.. i would love to try a bunch of cals. I need to get a wideband though.

[3Bar_Mopar]

i dont have any pics of the radiator install, but it fits perfect. the only thing that sucks is making the lower hose. cuz the radiator i got the bottom outlet points up and the waterpump points down. I just used 2 hoses and hooked em together and had no problems.

Back to the track on friday. my goal is to go every fri and improve my time every week. lol. Let me know when you can go man.. i would love to try a bunch of cals. I need to get a wideband though.

Does your sundance have the side or top mount rad stock?
How did you mount the top? Did the honda rad leave you a lot of room?

[southkurtk]

I will take some pics. i ghetto rigged it in there with some metal straps on top and there are two pegs that come out of the bottom that hold it in place at the bottom. there are two bolt holes already in the top for straps. It was an easy install and made a ton of room aslong as your running no ac. the piping room is endless without even cutting anything. I had this set up in my sundance and a daytona i had before it and loved it. put the battery in the trunk and there is more room in there than you could ever imagine.. lol

[R/T]

. but i am on 10-11psi .

There's the problem.... :confused:

[southkurtk]

agreed but gotta get good tune before i turn up so i dont go boooooom...

[3Bar_Mopar]

There's the problem.... :confused:

I rolled up a 2010 Mustang GT on 10 pounds. Granted, the kid couldn't drive...;)

[3Bar_Mopar]

I will take some pics. i ghetto rigged it in there with some metal straps on top and there are two pegs that come out of the bottom that hold it in place at the bottom. there are two bolt holes already in the top for straps. It was an easy install and made a ton of room aslong as your running no ac. the piping room is endless without even cutting anything. I had this set up in my sundance and a daytona i had before it and loved it. put the battery in the trunk and there is more room in there than you could ever imagine.. lol

That's awesome! I'm looking forward to the pics. I'm actually pretty exited about this mod because I have my old '90 Daytona rad/IC combo in there now is it don't fit worth a crap...I have a couple of those giant zip ties holding one side of it.

[thedon809]

That's awesome! I'm looking forward to the pics. I'm actually pretty exited about this mod because I have my old '90 Daytona rad/IC combo in there now is it don't fit worth a crap...I have a couple of those giant zip ties holding one side of it.I also did the civic radiator for my daytona. It's pretty easy to install. Just drill 1 hole in the rad support and use 1 existing hole. You can bend a stock upper mount to fit and drill a new hole. They are slightly taller than our radiators. I used a 15" flexible rad hose with 1.5" inlet, 1.25" outlet for the bottom, stock hose for the top.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/thedon809/daytona/0301101538-00.jpg

[3Bar_Mopar]

I also did the civic radiator for my daytona. It's pretty easy to install. Just drill 1 hole in the rad support and use 1 existing hole. You can bend a stock upper mount to fit and drill a new hole. They are slightly taller than our radiators. I used a 15" flexible rad hose with 1.5" inlet, 1.25" outlet for the bottom, stock hose for the top.


Very cool!

[southkurtk]

I went back friday and still no luck. car ran 15.8-16.2 at 85-87 mph all night long about 8 runs.. Something is not right. Ecu is coming in 2 weeks so hopefully that awakens this beast. Anyone got a stock 2.5 89 5 speed cal?

[trbowgn]

Sorry to hear that.
Hopefully the new cal is the issue.
Are you sure that the cam timing is right?
It sounds like you have zero top end with that low of mph.

[southkurtk]

I will check it again this weekend but cant picture it being off with how well the car runs...

[trbowgn]

I will check it again this weekend but cant picture it being off with how well the car runs...

I thought for sure a car I had was put together fine and that it ran great but it felt like it had no low end. I searched and searched and come to find out cam was a tooth off. I think they can run fairly well a tooth off.
Made a world of difference on my car when I got it set right.

[Captain Chaos]

I thought for sure a car I had was put together fine and that it ran great but it felt like it had no low end. I searched and searched and come to find out cam was a tooth off. I think they can run fairly well a tooth off.
Made a world of difference on my car when I got it set right.

Not to mention if you are sure you're setting it properly and continue to set it incorrectly. Not saying thats the case with Southkurk but I've seen that happen.

[dwh4784]

If the cam were advanced a tooth it would still run great and be very responsive down low. But it'll run out of steam in the upper RPM's pretty bad. It definitely could help explain the low MPH.

[southkurtk]

well i hope you guys are right... lol... Ill take some humility in a heartbeat to have the car run better than it is now...

[southkurtk]

ok checked the cam timing and i see everything is where it should be. I took some pics. Let me know if you see anything wrong.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m16/southkurtk/101_7873.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m16/southkurtk/101_7875.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m16/southkurtk/101_7876.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m16/southkurtk/101_7877.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m16/southkurtk/101_7878.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m16/southkurtk/101_7879.jpg

[Mopar318]

Almost looks like its off a tooth but it could just be the angle of the pictures.

[trbowgn]

Put a mark on the cam gear and belt and roll it one tooth advanced and see what happens.

[Directconnection]

Which way am I looking at the flywheel's mark? Would the engine be to the left? If so... then it's at 16 degrees advanced instead of TDC at 0.

I assume the picture is upside down then?

Edit: I see the oil sending unit and one of the bellhousing attatching bolts now... towards the other side, so I was looking at the picture upside down.

[Vigo]

That all looks correct to me.

[southkurtk]

I think it is right but ill pull it one forward to see if it makes a diff. When i try to set the ignition timing the mark jumps around alot. What could cause that?

[trbowgn]

Is the coolant temp senso unpluged?

[southkurtk]

when i time it. Yes. right now. No....

[dwh4784]

I don't think advancing it is going to do any good. If anything I would suspect it of already being a tooth advanced but those pics look fine.

[southkurtk]

yeah the car is frustrating. It should fly and i should be trapping in the 90's mph all day. But we will see. Only thing i can think of is intercooler piping leaking. So after i swap that out in a couple weeks and get my new cal from shel-game to match the engine. If it still dont run right i dont know what to do.... lol.. errrr...

[Spraynlog]

I'm going to say the timing looks right, from what I can see in the pics.:thumb:

What kind of compression does the motor have? What about fuel pressure?
How long since the fuel filter has been changed? If I think of anything else, I'll post up.:nod:

[southkurtk]

Compression i think was 145-150 all the way across.. Fuel pressure is right hooked gauge up and drove down rd with it taped to window. Fuel Filter is new(2 months old)....