Changing a head gasket - need tips

[Dave]

My friend's 92' TBI 2 door Shadow popped the head gasket at 110,000 miles (lasted pretty long) and she asked me to change it.

So I've never done this job by myself, i've worked with the company of OhioRob on my old Spirit, we pulled the head twice, so I have a rough idea of what I'm doing.

I know I have to start by removing all the fuel lines, vaccum lines, electronics, grounds, ignition - loosen A/C bracket - remove valve cover - remove exhaust bolts - loosen timing belt - remove head bolts - remove head - clean decks - then put it all back together.

The thing is, I can't stand timing, I haven't gotten the grasp of it yet, can I maybe put a bright marker on the cam's and crank's cogs aligned with the belt and put it back together that way?

Any further tips would be appreciated.

Thanks,
-Bryan

[BadAssPerformance]

Got a FSM?

Also check out MiniMopar's headgasket page (http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/headgasket.html)

[Dave]

Hmm... Im thinking removing the cam's cog and applying tension to it with a bungee cord and hanging it from the hood or something will save a lot of time. Also Im going to see if I can get an engine hoist and just lift the head a bit and clean the decks, install new gasket, then slap it back down.

:)

Thanks JT, that link helped a bunch!

-Bryan

[BadAssPerformance]

No problem.

You can also just loosen the timing belt tensioner and slide the belt off the cam sproket as long as you hold tension on it the whole time...

If you 'slide it' just make sure you check that its all clean and that everything looks flat.

[Dave]

No problem.

You can also just loosen the timing belt tensioner and slide the belt off the cam sproket as long as you hold tension on it the whole time...

If you 'slide it' just make sure you check that its all clean and that everything looks flat.

Okay, so you think it's possible to lift it atleast 6 or 7 inches?

[DodgeZ]

http://thedodgegarage.com/timing_belt.html

[altered7151]

Honestly, you should do the timing. Its intimidating at first but once you do it you'll realize how simple it is. You're gonna go through more trouble and spend more time screwing with not moving the timing belt then if you just pulled it and did the timing later. I tried doing what you want to do the first time I pulled a TD head and it was a pain, the second time I re did all the timing and it was a piece of cake.

[85shelbycharger]

Honestly, you should do the timing. Its intimidating at first but once you do it you'll realize how simple it is. You're gonna go through more trouble and spend more time screwing with not moving the timing belt then if you just pulled it and did the timing later. I tried doing what you want to do the first time I pulled a TD head and it was a pain, the second time I re did all the timing and it was a piece of cake.

^^I agree. Setting the timing is not hard at all after you do it once or twice. I have it down now and I can set the timing in less than 5 minutes :thumb:

[Turbodave]

Setting the timing isn't difficult, but I've had a lot of success using a bungee cord as well. The trick is to not let the belt get any slack and slip on the crank sprocket.

Marker on the belts won't work, they won't line up properly if the engine rotates.

I would recommend pulling the head off completely since this is your first time. That way you can make sure it's all clean before putting it back together. It's not that much harder, and it makes it much easier to clean everything. TBI cars are easier than turbo cars since there are less oil/coolant lines to mess with.

It's smart to check the head and deck for flatness prior to putting it back together. Use a straightedge and a feeler gauge.

Usually when the headgaskets go it's on the corner from the #1 or #4 cylinder to a coolant passage. If it is anywhere else I would make double sure the head is not cracked or warped before reinstalling it.

And finally if your doing this with the hope she'll repay you with sexual favors good luck, most likely she'll be out boinking some loser while your out in the cold under her car getting antifreeze dripped on your face.

[BIG PSI]

And finally if your doing this with the hope she'll repay you with sexual favors good luck, most likely she'll be out boinking some loser while your out in the cold under her car getting antifreeze dripped on your face.

hahq:thumb: maybe if she wasn't fat.

[altered7151]

hahq:thumb: maybe if she wasn't fat.

Big girls need love too :evil:

[ScottD]

I do the old "lift and slip". Much easier than completely pulling the head. I leave the fuel lines attached, the downpipe attached. I take the oil feed line off at the front of the block. Then the valve cover comes off. I haven't had much luck with the "bungee" method as the intermediate shaft sprocket moves real easy and tends to slip, so I then take the accessory belts off. I take the crank pulley off and then turn the crank until #1 is at Top Dead Center (TDC). Loosen the timing belt and slide it off the cam sprocket. Then loosen the head bolts in the PROPER SEQUENCE (otherwise you risk warping the head, the FSM or a Haynes manual will tell you proper sequence). You can lift the head up using an engine hoist, or I've seen a friend do it by carefully jacking on the downpipe. Clean the head and block surfaces (I like to use a razor blade very carefully) and lay the gasket down on the block. Drop the head back down carefully and torque the bolts in PROPER SEQUENCE to specified torque. FSM says 65lbs plus 1/4 turn, I usually like to just torque them to 90lb. I'm also a big believer in re-torquing the bolts (you are using new bolts, aren't you?) after a few heat cycles. Then to set the timing, you line up the crank sprocket with the intermediate shaft, there are small dots on them that line up. The oblong hole in the cam sprocket should line up with the hole on the timing belt cover (check www.thedodgegarage.com for other tips). It is pretty easy, once you do it once you'll rip through the next one you have to do. Hope this helps you out and that I didn't leave anything important out!

Scott

[Dave]

Great, well after I pulled her valve cover (lord that sounds so wrong!) I saw the #1 cylinder's intake rocker arm had fallen off... wtf?

So I slap it back on and turn the cam with a breaker bar and noticed that all the other rocker's cam lobes ALWAYS touch the rocker, and this only one didn't touch the short end of the lobe. I took out the lifter thinking it may have seized and it did, I couldnt push it down at all.

Yet as I was turning the cam I noticed when the spring came back up it didnt seat level with the adjacent spring... I think maybe the stuck lifter causing the rocker to slam back onto the spring everytime it made a pass and it wore it down causing it to be too weak.

Well I guess she has a blown head gasket, a bad lifter, and a bad spring so we're just going to rip out a junkyard head and replace it.

Thanks for all your help guys.

[riceboyler]

Throw a turbo on the back of it while you're at it for good measure. ;)

[Dave]

I dont want to get her excited... yeesh

[85shelbycharger]

I dont want to get her excited... yeesh

Haha :p
So what kind of progress have you made? Did you start yet Bryan?

[LeGweg]

And finally if your doing this with the hope she'll repay you with sexual favors good luck, most likely she'll be out boinking some loser while your out in the cold under her car getting antifreeze dripped on your face.

:lol:

Experienced man talking here :p

[86Shelby]

As far as the spring that doesn't sit level I would be checking out the spring and the possibility of a bent valve. All the springs and retainers should be level.

[Turbodave]

As far as the spring that doesn't sit level I would be checking out the spring and the possibility of a bent valve. All the springs and retainers should be level.

I was thinking the same thing Ray, either a bent valve or the valve seat dropped.

[BIG PSI]

I was thinking the same thing Ray, either a bent valve or the valve seat dropped.

Hm so a new head is in order, or would it be cheaper to try and fix the seats? Im thinking just slap a new head on, I could probally pick one up from the junkyard for $50, right??

-Bryan

[turbovanman²]

Hm so a new head is in order, or would it be cheaper to try and fix the seats? Im thinking just slap a new head on, I could probally pick one up from the junkyard for $50, right??

-Bryan

It depends, the junker head will need pressure testing and resurfaced, as will the original head. The junker head might need a valve job, as might the original so all your saving is time and it might cost you $50 more. I would pull the original head and have a look before buying another head but if you like spares, grab another.

[BadAssPerformance]

Hm so a new head is in order, or would it be cheaper to try and fix the seats? Im thinking just slap a new head on, I could probally pick one up from the junkyard for $50, right??

-Bryan

depends on the yard...

btw, forget who you were logged in as?

[BIG PSI]

depends on the yard...

btw, forget who you were logged in as?

Sorry Im on my dad's computer, Im logged in as Dave normally, but Im far too lazy to log out and back in. hehe

Anyways, so if I pull her head off, what should I look for, I dont know how to check for bent valves or dropped seats... this is all new to me.

[BadAssPerformance]

wow, thats lazy.

The seat is the piece that the valve seals against, so if you have the head off you can rotate the cam around and probe each one and se if its loose, and try to eyeball each valve to see if its bent. It is waaaay easier to check them if you take the valves out of the head tho.

[BIG PSI]

wow, thats lazy.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[turbovanman²]

You will see the valve held open by a chunk of metal, lol!

Yeah, thats lazy, :cheer2:

[BIG PSI]

lol Simon... um okay well looks like Im chargin' this b. a lottttttttttttttt of money!

[GLHSKEN]

I was thinking the same thing Ray, either a bent valve or the valve seat dropped.


Valve seat dropped... Head needs to be taken to a shop

[Dave]

Valve seat dropped... Head needs to be taken to a shop

lol dang. So do you guys think it's just a coinsidence that she blew a head gasket at the same time?

I'm thinking I'm just going to take my brother's 91 TBI Shadow's head and sell it to her. Man what a pain in the a$$.

[GLHSKEN]

Welcome to cars!!!

[deuce dodge]

bungee is easy way .unless you mess up :)

allways pull valve cover before fixing turbo mopars.......

go to local garage and ask them where they send people for rebuilds....local...........then go their and they will be able to see cracks and problems .....give you the whole scoop in a matter of moments........if they dont sound like they know all about the head go elsewhere......these people spend many ,many,long days with these heads and know them like a book.

and if they say they can't tell a thing about a head without a pressure check.....leave.

deuce

[turbovanman²]

and if they say they can't tell a thing about a head without a pressure check.....leave.

deuce

Why do you say that? I would never ever not have a head pressure tested if it looks ok. If you don't want to, thats fine but to go to all that work to save $40 is just stupid.

[5sp. mini]

if you don,t want to use the shadow head i have tbi head still from the spare van motor. i also have FSM for 88 if you want. lmk abount gaskets i can call my parts guy?AL

[deuce dodge]

SIMON.:)

having rebuilt a head or two......and knowing some good rebuilders....

if he takes the head in and they know that head..the characteristics <needs spel chek of that specific model head....they know what to look for..........

if they just try to sell him the "rebuild package" aka.oh we gotta do pressure test or we know nothing crap...........he should leave.....

friends who are good at heads can tell you whats wrong by just the head type quite often...they will say oh yup those things crack between the valve seats no big deal ...we see it all the time...etc.

so they can often tell if the head is junk by visual.........my point......

and yes i would get it psi tested if getting rebuilt.....lol

deuce

[turbovanman²]

^^^^^^^^^^Ok, just wanted to make sure, thats all, :amen:

[deuce dodge]

SIMON

i love edmondtin mall...........it is awesome.........i will visit there maybe this year......or next...you ever go there?

CANADA rocks.............

deuce

[turbovanman²]

SIMON

i love edmondtin mall...........it is awesome.........i will visit there maybe this year......or next...you ever go there?

CANADA rocks.............

deuce

Its like a 15 hour drive, lol! been there once, it was alot of fun, :nod:

[Mario]

Wow. .

[turbovanman²]

Wow. .


Wow what?

[deuce dodge]

wow
:)

[bfarroo]

If your going through the trouble to change the head I'd change the timing belt at the same time. They are cheap and if it's never been changed it's probably ready to go. Cheap insurance for 15 dollars. Check the alternator and power steering belt while your in there too.