1989 CSX #68 rebuild

[Shadowjake]

What do you think?


http://youtu.be/1EbZCEVUX94




How cold was the engine when you shot that? They run pretty rich when dead cold. It seemed like it was still trying to learn a bit there too. It usually evens out a lot after being driven some. My Shadow with SBEC takes about 50mi to learn everything. It's pretty annoying.

It was right after I got back from its first cruise. It was actually running hot because the coolant was low after losing some from the cap. It was only about 5 miles deep though. Total, Ive probably only got 20 miles on her and it does seem to be running better over time.

[cordes]

It looks like most of those should be pretty straight forward.

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/fault/index.html

[Shadowjake]

Issues:

1. I probably should have used loctite on the crank pulley ;-)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-g9MuTqKamI8/T96OhlBBGgI/AAAAAAAAFbk/JzEroa1Uwx8/s800/IMG_20120617_211123.jpg

2. I have a very slight oil leak coming from the passenger side of the engine. In the pic below, you can see the drip below the crank pulley. front main seal maybe? I'll have to inspect further tomorrow but it just started today after about 30 miles.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Ds3pMpX1nsk/T96Oqf7nViI/AAAAAAAAFbk/VHpLEPXBk4Q/s800/IMG_20120617_211140.jpg

3. Speedo stopped working today. I hope it just came disconnected from the back of the cluster. But I am getting a code for the speed/distance sensor. Maybe that is related too.

4. Under load, I get a lot of ticking from the engine like lifter clatter or something. It goes away when cruising at a constant RPM, but if I give it a little gas there is a rythmic tick, tick, tick, tick. I wonder if my cam timing is off maybe? ignition timing is set right at 12*; double checked that last night. When I lined up the cam for the engine timing, I aimed for getting the sprocket hole as close to 90* as I could looking at the bottom of the cam caps. I might have it a little too far advanced though when looking at the hole in the timing belt cover. You know that little grommet that is in the side. If that is there to be able to see the cam sprocket mark for timing, the way I have it set would be a little further forward I think.

5. I can't get on it without the CEL flashing because of detonation. I only did it once or twice, but I need to figure out how to adjust my cal to lower the boost for now. I think the timing/ticking issue, combined with my crappy stock intercooler and 91 octane fuel is causing me to detonate at about 15psi or so under part throttle. A/F seems good I think. The wideband was showing 12-13 I believe. Might be lean I guess. I need to do some more learning before I blow up my engine.

6. Is the coil supposed to be burning hot to the touch after driving a while? I am using a Mallory coil that came with the car and it works great. but the sucker get sooo hot! Not sure if it's normal or if it is having issues with the MSD wires I got or what. Least of my worries at this point.

Lots of bugs to work out before I'll trust it to get me to SDAC but I haven't ruled that out. Where there's a will, there's a way.

[Shadowjake]

Found out what the smoking was from by the turbo. . . the speed distance sensor wiring was touching the TU header. That probably explains the code 15. Oops.

[Shadowjake]

Nevermind, after further investigation I have learned that the oil sending unit and the speed distance sensor connectors are the same! But the distance sensor has a WT/YL wire and the oil sender has gray wires. I had them swapped. No wonder why the speed distance wiring barely reached. Doh! I feel like a dummy. The good news is, the only damage to any wiring was only melted loom. The wires/insulation is perfectly fine. That should fix my code 15. Surprised I didn't get a code for the oil pressure sending unit :confused:

Back out to the garage.

[Shadowjake]

Checked the timing tonight and it is about as good as it can get.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mugEggkvI_A/T9-__0CrBpI/AAAAAAAAFeA/L4TOw0HErbA/s800/IMG_20120618_185459.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-heqCzXovEK4/T9_AUSqa7EI/AAAAAAAAFeA/Tw5nREvigok/s800/IMG_20120618_185554.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2qlIIVTAfxs/T9_AoR73teI/AAAAAAAAFeA/fAAJZqWLQIw/s800/IMG_20120618_185735.jpg

I found out why my Speedo stopped working. Must burned through the jacket and got twisted up. I'll have to be more careful how I route stuff around the exhaust.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-F-gOnJBk_YY/T9_v25rKVVI/AAAAAAAAFeA/ZUOjlKMLtWw/s800/IMG_20120618_221724.jpg

And I think I traced the slight oil leak to the turbo oil drain back tube. Either my weld is seeping oil or the gasket is bad. Both look pretty bad. Nothing a little JB Weld and a new gasket can't fix.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-9Y3RKTzG_s0/T9_u6eU5tKI/AAAAAAAAFeA/wU3XTdCG4Sk/s800/IMG_20120618_221509.jpg

Everything near there has a nice oily sheen now. At least it's a very slow leak and nothing catastrophic (knock on wood).

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TdxlE8W-3iE/T9_vme2zp2I/AAAAAAAAFeA/hItJT6SeYwM/s800/IMG_20120618_221652.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tK-xpeeIk_8/T9_vuLoS_wI/AAAAAAAAFeA/bepQZzdPcVM/s800/IMG_20120618_221710.jpg

[cordes]

The computer doesn't look at the oil pressure stuff at all. That's why there isn't a code for it.

[Shadowjake]

Not even an oil light on the dash though? I have a manual pressure gauge hooked up for now so I'm not worried but it just seemed strange. I can't believe they didn't key those connectors. I feel like a doofus for doing that but glad I realized.

Got the new updated calibration files emailed from Rob today too. I haven't gotten to fire up the car yet with them, but I'm excited to see if there is a difference. He adjusted the timing and fuel ratios a little and made other minor tweaks.

Going to order some new rubber tomorrow. Probably going with 205/60/R15s for the fiberides. I was looking at Yokohamas but am so far undecided. But I need to get them on this week. Also need to order the new speedo cable from Rock Auto tomorrow. Gotta love the last minute small fixes. Feels good to see progress and being able to troubleshoot stuff though.

Still not sure about the baro read solenoid issue. I am thinking about just plugging the vacuum line directly into the MAP sensor so at least that has a good reference.

[Reaper1]

Not that it applies to this, but to help you feel better: the connector for the O2 sensor and the coil pack on a TIII are the same...and reach. Talk about a face palm when we figured out why it wouldn't start after many hours of diagnosis!

[Shadowjake]

Found the leak.


http://youtu.be/sFiB7OPtFKU

Front main seal probably?

On a brighter note, I ordered 4 new shoes for the fiberides. Yokohama YK 580s in 205/60/R15. Hopefully they about as good as a 15" tire can be.

40214

I also ordered a new speedo cable, radiator cap, and some more exhaust clamps. I am going to move the muffler to the rear. It seems to rattle a lot being next to the heat shields right below the passenger compartment. Hopefully that will help.

[Shadowv4l]

isnt the timing supposed to be set to 12? I think that's what the manual says iirc

[Shadowjake]

isnt the timing supposed to be set to 12? I think that's what the manual says iirc

Ignition timing is set to 12*. You adjust when it sparks by rotating the distributor and with stock timing, the cylinders ignite/spark after the crank rotates to 12 degrees after top dead center. You set that with a timing light that flashes a light every time the wire is carrying a spark and aim for 12 degrees then.

For timing belt alignment or "engine timing" you line up the crank at 0 degrees or top dead center (TDC). That is when cylinder 1 is at it's highest point in the stroke.

Hope I didn't dumb it down and offend you. Just trying to help you understand why I posted that picture.

[Shadowjake]

I get the flashing CEL for knock at about 12 PSI. 91 Octane. What's the deal. Here's me attempting to make a video of my A/F while accelerating.


http://youtu.be/bMbRZsk6KmU

Here's a video of me at highway cruise going about 50.


http://youtu.be/P0oMwhR9TGA

After warming up, here is the A/F while idling. Is it too lean or is this ok while the computer is learning? I just put the new chip in about 4 miles back.


http://youtu.be/lrmzFrp8PTw

And after I got home, I messed around with the fuel pressure. Cranked it all of the way up (about 75 or so according to my gauge). Then checked the A/F. It got a lot closer to stoich. What do you think?


http://youtu.be/WechJs4J9u8

[Shadowjake]

Found out that if I plug the exhaust, the AF ratio goes back to normal. 14.7ish. I must have an exhaust leak at the donut sucking air in.

Got the new shoes today. Here are some pics. SOOOO PRETTY.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DibyAmHLXSA/T-ORXQVSojI/AAAAAAAAFm4/2UgsNTHeKSs/s800/IMG_20120621_162419.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7XimxOwDhwA/T-ORGsJcMLI/AAAAAAAAFm4/bzN4FkUbBqc/s800/IMG_20120621_162403.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Z9ApFE0youE/T-PiEhaDO_I/AAAAAAAAFm4/miFZbzsV8r4/s800/IMG_20120621_220926.jpg

As she sits.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dght-Nt_fRQ/T-QXq53RhCI/AAAAAAAAFm4/BLseiqmSJ70/s800/IMG_20120622_015812.jpg

I'm going to attempt to drive her to SDAC tomorrow after installing the new speedo cable and getting an alignment done. Wish me the best. My gut is telling me I'm going to end up with an expensive tow truck bill but the car is running great minus the slight oil leak and the wide band issue. SDAC OR BUST!

[Reaper1]

There are a few people going from you neck of the woods I believe. See if you can caravan with them!

[84omni]

A few of us are leaving the twin cities around 5 tomorow morning if you wanted to tag a long with us not sure where in wisconsin you are located though.

[Shadowjake]

A few of us are leaving the twin cities around 5 tomorow morning if you wanted to tag a long with us not sure where in wisconsin you are located though.

I'm in Eau Claire. I'll be heading out tonight and crashing at a friends house in Madison. Tomorrow morning I'll be leaving for the rest of the stretch. If you want to call me as you approach and let me know when you'll be coming through Madison, I can join the convoy. I'll PM you my number.

Should be a good time as long as I don't end up stranded somewhere in gang territory ;-)

I got the alignment done today. corners MUCH BETTER. I went .5 negative on the front camber compared to the back. Can't remember the exact specs but it was just over 1* in front. It's written down on the receipt.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-pNiYKpLz6jw/T-Su0Oh19SI/AAAAAAAAFn4/sdSEbinnj-c/s800/IMG_20120622_124255.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qwY7mYTqmO8/T-Svwah5-_I/AAAAAAAAFn4/vqzbdxqcLrg/s800/IMG_20120622_124658.jpg

Got the speedo cable replaced and the important stuff loaded up. Just have to pack the creature comforts and clothes and stuff and I'll be heading out.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-yziiAlJvU7w/T-TlhB3vSFI/AAAAAAAAFn4/HNQ9nHAnLMg/s800/IMG_20120622_163632.jpg

SDAC or BUST! Coming in HOT!

[84omni]

That should work if you want to join. We will have two trucks with dollys and tools if something should go wrong.

[Reaper1]

I think you're carrying more tools and such than I did when I went to SDAC in Detroit the last time, driving from Florida!

[Shadowjake]

Sounds like a rod bearing is bad. A few guys here have confirmed it. Going to change them tomorrow in the SDAC parking lot. At least I made it here.

[turbovanman²]

Bummer dude, :(

[Reeves]

What was the verdict? I never did hear what happened.

[turbovanman²]

What was the verdict? I never did hear what happened.

Weren't you there? Didn't you see that shitt? :lol:

[Shadowjake]

My trip to SDAC was pretty uneventful (that's a good thing!). I had my accessory belt squealing like crazy at a toll booth which about gave me a heart attack in chicago traffic. I immediately assumed the worst and thought something catestrophic had happened. Pulled off and tightened up the belt a little and the squealing stopped (until I pulled into the SDAC parking lot of course . . . that was sorta embarassing :D )

Pulled over to fix the belt:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--Ex6fDgDgKY/T-YcPxGYG_I/AAAAAAAAF6Q/hi2OM4tlDig/s800/IMG_20120623_144241.jpg

Also on my last gas stop about 2 hours out, I went to fire up the car again and the starter was dead! turned key and nothing. Fortunately some friendly locals were able to give me a good shove and I was on my way down the road again. When I got there, Mike, Alan, and Larry were all primed up and ready to jump in and help me fix it. Come to find out, the brown starter ground wire that attaches to the tranny came detached. A new eyelet was installed and it is good as new:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FZhAHhdhDzU/T-ZgMq9jDuI/AAAAAAAAF6Q/LhIz4--U-2c/s800/IMG_20120623_203238.jpg

All registered and ready to rock.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-sQLBSkHL10w/T-aQP7WS61I/AAAAAAAAF6Q/exPIaTM2uwk/s800/IMG_20120623_235742.jpg

The next day, I was trying to figure out why my car had no low end power and started talking to Jackson and he went for a ride with me in it. He heard the noise that had been there since I first fired it up (that I discounted as a timing belt slap or noisy valve train or *insert excuse you use to justify why there isn't a problem here*). He was pretty certain it was a rod knock and we ran to Autozone to pick up new bearings, pan gasket, and everything else we'd need to do a bearing change and dove in.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-MIYYU5RsbzQ/T-iSaaIIqdI/AAAAAAAAF6Q/e026WwDznrw/s800/IMG_20120625_123119.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7G0lJFMz3eg/T-isL8w0ZEI/AAAAAAAAF6Q/onFx4UQU7rg/s800/IMG_20120625_142124.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-87_WmgRpunU/T-isPoUt-QI/AAAAAAAAF6Q/YJcM6X6ar_A/s800/IMG_20120625_142130.jpg

After fresh rod bearings, it made the same noise from the start. Here are pics of the old bearings with about 800 miles (mostly highway) on them:

Rod bearing #1 must have had a piece of crap or a burr or something go through it:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jOKHEMB6S_I/T-zNVrxQKvI/AAAAAAAAF6Q/MRYcq3eHfRE/s800/IMG_20120628_163107.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lpNV0tSr8Xs/T-zOKygUc2I/AAAAAAAAF6Q/VkcRcgXa1qE/s800/IMG_20120628_163149.jpg

Rod bearing #2 looked good. We plastigaged it and it measured about .018 or so.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4TEYkdwspxE/T-zNh6fHFwI/AAAAAAAAF6Q/Rm5WyJ5KZzU/s800/IMG_20120628_163116.jpg

Rod bearing #3 also looked pretty good:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-JG5u1QB4W4g/T-zNs-Qke4I/AAAAAAAAF6Q/tfw5BVE6Be4/s800/IMG_20120628_163120.jpg

Rod bearing #4 had some serious wear to it, right down to the copper on the cap bearing. We also found a burr sticking up on the #4 cap that was interfering with the mating surface, possibly causing it to be out of round when torqued and causing the wear. We filed it off flat and I'll see if the wear is the same when I pull it apart tomorrow.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mVL3u3TJ1Uw/T-zN3VXndvI/AAAAAAAAF6Q/mh5glvniIK8/s800/IMG_20120628_163126.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kKI6a_tPon0/T-zOAgaSePI/AAAAAAAAF6Q/DhvzuMIwOEA/s800/IMG_20120628_163139.jpg

After the bearing swap we tried doing some more diagnosis. We did a drop cylinder test and when number 4 wire is unplugged, the knock is not nearly as violent. It has to be in that cylinder. Still not sure if it's a problem with the crank (all journals looked clean and polished), the big end of the rod being out of round, the wrist pins, etc. The culprit was anyone's guess.

Today I drove it up to the shop that built the short block just to see if they had any insight and they came up with the same possible problems as everyone else (except he also mentioned piston shroud might be causing the noise also). Without tearing into it, all we can do is speculate.

Tomorrow, I plan to pull the pan and check the bearings again to see if they look the same with about the same mileage on them. I also plan to pull the head and pop number 4 out and inspect it. I'll keep everyone posted on what I find out.

[Lotashelbys]

Jake,I would just pull the drivetrain so you can pull it apart on a stand. I think that crank needs to come out so it can be checked and possibly ground.

[Shadowjake]

Jake,I would just pull the drivetrain so you can pull it apart on a stand. I think that crank needs to come out so it can be checked and possibly ground.

Good call Jackson. Better than doing crap twice trying to save work and I'll bet you're right. Well, engine is out. . .

Now to dig around a little.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-V4q6JQqG5ao/T-4dAS6wyvI/AAAAAAAAGI0/lQGQvfRsoko/s800/IMG_20120629_162222.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-L8EYsqzSZoo/T-9h-gcyg7I/AAAAAAAAGHk/CML6aPx8HKE/s800/IMG_20120630_153029.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ae5pHTuApKw/T-9kT0ayIWI/AAAAAAAAGHk/KDSSUY_53mE/s800/IMG_20120630_154037.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-yk_2KqU0W98/T-9kY-r3g6I/AAAAAAAAGHk/IkFUL5CKlPk/s800/IMG_20120630_154045.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5r1dsfcyVTc/T-9kbgXiqTI/AAAAAAAAGHk/UNlq1-52C2E/s800/IMG_20120630_154051.jpg

---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------

Also, it's a sad day for the Shelby. At some point between SDAC, Minnesota, or home, she lost an eyelid. No idea when or how it happened. Also, I have no idea where I'll ever find a replacement :(

It just isn't her week I guess. Hopefully things only get better from here. . .

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-uRCZV3wt6Ec/T-4croekFJI/AAAAAAAAGHw/-y8czhONYyM/s800/IMG_20120629_162204.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pTUlilYWXWw/T-4c4Hg2XKI/AAAAAAAAGHw/H9HDKdJButA/s800/IMG_20120629_162211.jpg

[Shadowjake]

Something to do with old rod bearings when you're bored grilling out dinner . . .

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6v7e_M75ZfY/T-5RL3N5iEI/AAAAAAAAGI0/7KUgQpvM8zw/s800/IMG_20120629_200618.jpg

All flywheel bolts are intact and fastened very well. Took some doin' to get them loose ;-)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-E-CCNWJiUVc/T--CaOeuNoI/AAAAAAAAGI0/E-Zmvsh7178/s800/IMG_20120630_174857.jpg

Clutch is breaking in pretty good. Also, I love the 6 puck and purple plate! It is really streetable but feels really solid. Can't wait to throw some power at it.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Jz6XvuffxU0/T--CdKcZyAI/AAAAAAAAGI0/6zmGAHGRL4o/s800/IMG_20120630_174912.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Goa40iNbu8M/T--MXOk7eJI/AAAAAAAAGI0/PsXy_Zwo1aA/s800/IMG_20120630_183128.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-p6qqK1KjUPc/T--MaITQx4I/AAAAAAAAGI0/U4KZIgkagxA/s800/IMG_20120630_183133.jpg

Throw out bearing is doing it's job. Wish I could get rid of the slight rattle when the clutch is released though. Any tricks to silence it when disengaged?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S5eGXAR4r1U/T--Mce1u4pI/AAAAAAAAGI0/KByK7gSnj5Y/s800/IMG_20120630_183140.jpg

Well, the engine is on the stand. Draining the last bit of oil out and will be flipping it and pulling the pan and crank soon. The suspense is building! Can't wait to see what's going on in cylinder 4! Stay tuned.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nlYYxWHfrC0/T--MTf-XA-I/AAAAAAAAGI0/-ZtVqaaAhNU/s800/IMG_20120630_183113.jpg

[Shadowjake]

I noticed after taking the oil pan off that #4 is the only one that had any writing on the rod cap. This is an old picture before it faded a lot. Could this mean anything related to my problem?

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7HfKEUYAsy8/TJwZB9jV39I/AAAAAAAADVM/gz7O616rjM8/s800/P1010415.JPG

The rod cap bearing in number 4 has the same wear as before:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--Y0Acvf17b4/T--bap-AbuI/AAAAAAAAGJo/YcQasgKq_JQ/s800/IMG_20120630_193458.jpg

I checked the crank journal at rod 4 with a micrometer and it is perfectly round (EDIT: Scratch that, see below, it is slightly off). I'll pull the crank tomorrow and mic out the rod end and look at the wrist pin. I have a feeling, it is going to be out of round slightly. All rod journals have the same amount of play side to side and the wrist pins all look like they have the same gap as well.

Time to relax for a while. Back out to the garage in the morning. . .

[Shadowjake]

Ok, so I just double checked the crank journal and took measurements 90*s from each other. It is slightly different. Is this a big enough difference to cause a problem?

1.967 horizontally.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OyLqykcHyT8/T--sC1vYx-I/AAAAAAAAGKc/n1vppMTRilE/s800/IMG_20120630_204636.jpg

1.983 vertically.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FEOljDywheE/T--sFDo68cI/AAAAAAAAGKc/7cVmZqVeaGw/s800/IMG_20120630_204651.jpg

A couple more for good measure:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1Gi0TERPPRA/T--sGjx5IJI/AAAAAAAAGKc/qhMia7H42dI/s800/IMG_20120630_204656.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zBHqE2v0mGY/T--sM1hjZkI/AAAAAAAAGKc/CZZugAy8Mas/s800/IMG_20120630_204708.jpg

What do you think? Is 1.5 hundredths of an inch out of round enough to cause abnormal bearing wear and rod knock? Or is this within acceptable tolerance?

Thanks for the help. Jake

[Rampage16V]

I say nah! no good, Should be the same all way round.

[4 l-bodies]

Jake,
Rod bearing journal std. should be 1.9676"-1.9686". In other words within .001. and round. You found your problem. That would explain why it was tearing up that rod bearing so quickly. Now the question is how did a crank get .150 larger than std., and why didn't machine shop catch that when miking/polishing? Time to bring to back to machine shop and let them check it out.
Todd

[Shadowjake]

I think I might just suck with the micrometer.. Dang it. Tomorrow I'll check again.

[Shadowjake]

I think I am going to wrap some plastigauge around the circumference of the bearing and torque it. That should be more accurate and show any difference. I just tried again and keep getting inconsistent measurements. It doesn't help that this is the first time I've done it.

[BadFastGTC]

Jake,
Glad to hear you made it home. I would suggest using a regular micrometer vs caliper. Much more accurate and when measuring these critical values, cannot be compromised. I would take all of the rotating components back and have them rechecked. I would be INSISTENT on that. Good luck bud.

[ohlarikd]

You are one resilient, motivated, patient, level headed, can-do, F-it kind of guy. I would have had it by now. Changing bearings on the road... pulling the engine again... I wish I had your kind of willingness and eagerness for diving in repeatedly to do the tough jobs!

Derek

[Orangetona]

Also on my last gas stop about 2 hours out, I went to fire up the car again and the starter was dead! turned key and nothing. Fortunately some friendly locals were able to give me a good shove and I was on my way down the road again. When I got there, Mike, Alan, and Larry were all primed up and ready to jump in and help me fix it. Come to find out, the brown starter ground wire that attaches to the tranny came detached. A new eyelet was installed and it is good as new:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FZhAHhdhDzU/T-ZgMq9jDuI/AAAAAAAAF6Q/LhIz4--U-2c/s800/IMG_20120623_203238.jpg

Hey thats me! In my viking form! lmao. Hey, Im really glad you got home and all went well. You have some serious resolve when it comes to your car!

Mike

[cordes]

Glad to see that you made it home with no issues. You did better than I in that dept. for sure. It seems like you are already on the right track. I agree with Steve that you should just take her back to the shop and insist that they check all tolerances.

[Shadowjake]

I've arranged for someone to be there to recieve my short block on the 4th (my only day off this week) even though they are closed. They seem very willing to work with me to fix the issue which is pretty cool. I'm also glad that Clay, the guy who checked the tolerances before and will most likely be re-checking them, got a chance to hear it run and knock when I drove up last week. There is no doubt there is a problem somewhere in the bottom end.

When I find out what the deal is, post the diagnosis. It's not so much a matter of having patience and resilience. I'm as frustrated as anyone would be in this situation. But from what I've heard from others tackling a project this big, there is always SOMETHING that rears it's ugly head and causes more work. I want more than anything to see this car running smoothly and reliably. Being able to drive it for a while and seeing all the sweet rides at SDAC also helped me get pumped up again.

It won't be long and the car will be in good shape. Almost there!

[ScottD]

When I put the engine together for my GLHS, when it went in at first it leaked coolant. Out of a freeze plug of all places. Then it leaked oil. After replacing the oil pan gasket twice I finally figured out it was the intermediate shaft seal. It also wouldn't idle, it turned out I failed to properly seal the EGR hole on the intake (of course, Pat discovered this after he used the intake, I ended up pulling the head and swapping another intake on!). It was frustrating.

However, it will be worth all the effort in the end. These things can happen on a big project, hang in there and don't let it discourage you.

[denviola]

Also, it's a sad day for the Shelby. At some point between SDAC, Minnesota, or home, she lost an eyelid. No idea when or how it happened. Also, I have no idea where I'll ever find a replacement :(



Contact Billy Lofink (DC Turismo), he has parted a couple of these and may have the "eyelid"
UNK

[turbovanman²]

Sorry to hear about your problems but great you made it there and back. Your like I used to be, won't give up, now getting past that lol.

I agree with Steve, vernier's aren't very accurate for measuring engine parts.

The trans rattle your hearing isn't the t/o bearing, its the input shaft, its "rattling" inside the trans due to gear lash, not much you can do about it, its normal. Triple check the clutch springs just to make sure they aren't loose as they can also cause that noise.

[Shadowjake]

Well this should help me double check the engine clearances when I get it back from the shop. Found a GREAT DEAL on this stuff from a retired machinist. $225 for everything! They are all Starrett tools which are supposed to be good I guess.

Dial Indicator Set in case

inside Micrometer in wooden case
1" to 12"

Thread Pitch Gauge

telescope gauge set
1/2" - 3/4",
3/4" - 1 1/4",
1 1/4" - 2 1/4"

Micrometers:
0 - 1"
1" - 2"
2" - 3"
3" - 4"

12" Steel Hook Scale
12" Slim Steel Scale
6" Narrow Steel Hook Scale w / angle gauge
6" Steel Scale w / clip
6" Steel Scale

40481404824048340484

SWEEEET! Good riddance crappy slide caliper!

[cordes]

Wow, that seems like a great deal on those tools to me. I need to pick up more stuff like that myself.

[shmedley]

Wow that's a good deal on those.
Glad to see you made it home OK. You had a long trip. Was nice meeting you at SDAC

[135sohc]

DirectConnection/steve would be the person to ask for sure but if theres any directions with that stuff on calibrating it you may want to make sure everything is within spec before using it and trusting the numbers as accurate.

[Fox]

Contact Billy Lofink (DC Turismo), he has parted a couple of these and may have the "eyelid"
UNK
it isn't a Shelby specific part so you can get it off a regular 89 too if you can find one with them intact

[Reeves]

Wow! Great deal on the Starret tools! I'll give you $300 for them :)

[Shadowjake]

Nah.. Maybe when I retire. B-)

[Shadowjake]

Well spoke with the shop. The big end of the #4 rod was out of round. It checked out fine if you mic it one way but if you rotate the mic about 45* it was way off. He said it looked like maybe the wrong cap was put on it after machining. Who knows. But they got a new TII rod and machined it and weight balanced it with the others. They will be reassembling the short block tomorrow and I should be able to pick it up Saturday. The shop isn't charging me anything for the fix. Great customer service!

[csxtra]

Glad to hear it! Let us know how it does when you get it back together and broken in...then you can finally try a couple of degrees more base timing to see if that makes it more responsive at low RPMs!

[135sohc]

Were the rods/caps numbered ?

[Shadowjake]

Not until I took it apart the second time. But the other 3 were 100% correct he said. They were reconditioned rods from TU so they weren't numbered. They were checked as they were installed the first time and #4 just wasn't checked well enough apparently.

When disassembling them this time, I marked all 4, although now I'll have to mark #4 again since the rod was completely replaced. He said if it was machined to fix it, the rod would be too short :yuck:

---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

Which makes me think: the description of the rods on the TU site says "The small end is also drilled and countersunk for increased pin oiling." If 3 of the 4 have this added and the 4th one is now a regular unmodified TII rod, will this cause any oiling or wrist pin issues? I guess I can ask Chris when I call him.

Like I said last time this came up, I have no reason to think this 1 rod came from TU out of round. It would be no surprise if the first shop that was fumbling around with my engine dropped it on the ground a few times. They were clueless.

[4 l-bodies]

Jake,
Clay probably saw the drilled small end and redrilled new rod. They have done this many times before on these rods. You can always ask him too. I'm a little surprised they didn't call me to ask if I had any spare TII rod singles. New TII rods still available from Mopar?
Todd

[Shadowjake]

I'll have to ask him where he got the rod from and what he did to it. I'll be picking it up tomorrow morning.

Tore down the head to clean it up while I was waiting to get the block back and found 2 broken valve retainers.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1I1e6XKDiQI/T_-U0i_uP6I/AAAAAAAAGcw/kC21LVNGAL4/s800/IMG_20120712_221717.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-0bhNNOER2cQ/T_-JHbtEF9I/AAAAAAAAGcw/Hj8xto6w1ZM/s800/IMG_20120712_213124.jpg

Also, I tried to get the head gasket part number 5281065 as suggested in a different thread and it is back ordered just like the 2005 gasket. Turbos unleashed is sending me a 2006 gasket and Chris suggested I cross drill my head to take advantage of the extra cooling. I am weary about doing it though since I don't want to fubar the ported Menegon head. Either that, or I'll be modifying the gasket to work. Any suggestions?

I also got the submersible hose in today so I plan to replace the in tank hose and remove the pulse dampener I put back in.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hD8P51CLglM/UADZIkoBGWI/AAAAAAAAGcw/_A_Bs3Rum2w/s800/IMG_20120713_212717.jpg

Lawn ornaments:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tS1Wlw46E-U/T_94T8lw5iI/AAAAAAAAGcw/U8ebTQVbnFw/s800/IMG_20120712_202047.jpg

Saw this on a domino pizza commercial :-)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-r_WGt2rghdU/T_z2LOmFSvI/AAAAAAAAGcw/Dei03OxSiVQ/s800/IMG_20120710_224222.jpg

[135sohc]

head gasket part number 5281065 as suggested in a different thread and it is back ordered just like the 2005 gasket

crap... That is not good.

[Turbo3Iroc]

Well spoke with the shop. The big end of the #4 rod was out of round. It checked out fine if you mic it one way but if you rotate the mic about 45* it was way off. He said it looked like maybe the wrong cap was put on it after machining. Who knows. But they got a new TII rod and machined it and weight balanced it with the others. They will be reassembling the short block tomorrow and I should be able to pick it up Saturday. The shop isn't charging me anything for the fix. Great customer service!

They are a stand up shop to cover it 100% for you. Glad you found something definite causing that knock also.

[BadFastGTC]

Jake, do me a favor and measure the height of those keepers. I also had experienced a few split keepers when using Comp Cams product. I have not had any issues with Manley keepers.

[cordes]

I would leave the head and alter the gasket.

[Shadowjake]

Well here's the new rod. It's different from the original but not sure if it will be any issue at all. if anything it looks stronger. I asked where he got it and he said it is a reconditioned one from his supplier.

The new rod has part number 5203385 stamped on it. The old ones were 4323958. After doing a search, it sounds like the replacement rod is one of the older press pin HD rods. A bushing is installed and he machined it to accomodate the .901 full float pins.

Here are some pics. The replacement has the piston installed. What do you guys think?

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2a_Ou740ECE/UAHbx0dw_BI/AAAAAAAAGeE/2y3RZ2LcxWU/s800/IMG_20120714_154939.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-y141-Ukswx8/UAHbv2q8NTI/AAAAAAAAGeE/BNrQdOo2v1k/s800/IMG_20120714_154930.jpg

The original doesn't have these holes. . .

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-poVnSacjkr4/UAHbsy58zLI/AAAAAAAAGeE/tjkE0qnPdkM/s800/IMG_20120714_154813.jpg

A pic of the original rod part number.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-B88qp7TH8Uw/UAHbXvVro4I/AAAAAAAAGeE/ypJmX9SHbH4/s800/IMG_20120714_154753.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-G6rZ16AzbuI/UAHbVkT2aYI/AAAAAAAAGeE/BFqHfVsT7Hk/s800/IMG_20120714_154749.jpg

A pic of the replacement.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tCaCrRnVlLA/UAHbQRRg_nI/AAAAAAAAGeE/Z_HFs362I6E/s800/IMG_20120714_154742.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MAm3xCZoseU/UAHbKqR_YBI/AAAAAAAAGeE/cHHSWOGRVnM/s800/IMG_20120714_154730.jpg

---------- Post added at 04:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:12 PM ----------


Jake, do me a favor and measure the height of those keepers. I also had experienced a few split keepers when using Comp Cams product. I have not had any issues with Manley keepers.

I measure .310" with the slide caliper. Getting the set of micrometers tomorrow and can measure again but that should be accurate enough ;-)

[turbovanman²]

TII rods, T1 89 turbo 1 and TIII rods have different part numbers I believe but are exactly the same.

Wow, your engine was a ticking time bomb, :(

Wonder if someone put the rod cap on backwards?

Glad the shop is covering it, that's rare these days.

[cordes]

looks like the new one is an early 2.2 rod and the one in there was a TII rod. IIRC you just need to modify the early rod for the floating pin and it's essentially a TII rod.


ETA: I can't paste this table for the life of me. You can see the PNs are off by one number from what's posted on the dodge garage.

[supercrackerbox]

Best I can do is link it:

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_shortblock.html

[Shadowjake]

Well, I've been busy.

Measured out all the rods and journals and all of them have .020 clearance so the problem should be fixed now. Also measured crank side to side play and got .007 with the dial indicator I figured out how to use ;-)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-dUpCFMLrAMI/UAOcqlH80GI/AAAAAAAAGlk/XjPXC_kZiUY/s800/IMG_20120715_234516.jpg

Got the 006 gasket in from TU and modified it using my 005 gasket as a template. I used some Permatex copper spray gasket too just to be sure it seals ok. I used a 1/4" drill bit for the 6 holes and a 1/4" chizel against a hard surface for trimming. I tried the chizel against a wood block first and it didn't work very well and dimpled the gasket rather than slice clean through.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NNmhyV2JDx0/UATSvE_qKNI/AAAAAAAAGlk/2kQTIedqwiY/s800/IMG_20120716_214855.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-dmOwLyM9_Bk/UATS6ZJgaDI/AAAAAAAAGlk/sUE-elT6C3Q/s800/IMG_20120716_214919.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jqWwftdjDjo/UATVtWf7e9I/AAAAAAAAGlk/vyYBbtubxGc/s800/IMG_20120716_220125.jpg

Cleaned up, inspected, and reassembled the head. I just re-used the 2 split keepers for now so I can get it running again. Steve said he will send some replacements though. THANKS!

I also installed the high RPM lifters I got from a guy at SDAC. seem much firmer. Just running a stock 89 roller cam now but if/when I decided to go to a more aggressive cam later, these shouldn't have any issues handling it.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UrBHJPdYWZE/UATV4VL3B7I/AAAAAAAAGlk/VDw0dgzUiGw/s800/IMG_20120716_220147.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KJxGwZJRZoQ/UATWBIJAiEI/AAAAAAAAGlk/7lr8Ztnbcgg/s800/IMG_20120716_220224.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2vKcFNOdcX8/UATWJj_AKkI/AAAAAAAAGlk/Io4SaWsAjms/s800/IMG_20120716_220231.jpg

ARP head studs installed and mating surface all cleaned up ready for the head.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9X_f5EVi7w4/UATWRtZsjuI/AAAAAAAAGlk/Z36nZ1-QOQI/s800/IMG_20120716_220337.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-5zB32Csy80M/UATWaLqFEoI/AAAAAAAAGlk/rLf4cxDWErw/s800/IMG_20120716_220347.jpg

I'm pretty sure that galley plug was the source of my leak dripping onto my timing belt and down to the end of the oil pan. It was replaced and sealed at the shop while it was in their hands.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gikRXcitVpM/UATWiC3_tjI/AAAAAAAAGlk/JHzli4Q6mF0/s800/IMG_20120716_220408.jpg

Head mounted and torqued to 85ft/lbs using moly lube.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cX9KzqTL8e0/UATkQ6SEjgI/AAAAAAAAGlk/ysRJFe4GiaE/s800/IMG_20120716_230324.jpg

Valve cover installed.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KfNlxUuBdvc/UATrpV4WY4I/AAAAAAAAGlk/hzz1XOvgf_A/s800/IMG_20120716_233507.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-T2YPT1EIgEg/UATrvcFItaI/AAAAAAAAGlk/CmXhyMspn40/s800/IMG_20120716_233540.jpg

Installing the manifolds. Decided to put adhesive thermal barrier on all 4 runners of the intake. Figure it couldn't hurt and might keep the incoming air a little cooler.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fLNL7s_rZWQ/UAT9bF1pNrI/AAAAAAAAGlk/kGZ5Rl2glr8/s800/IMG_20120717_005054.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8N9mbq3-7D0/UAUa_R_8LJI/AAAAAAAAGlk/vfMVujDSgX8/s800/IMG_20120717_025652.jpg

That brilliant orange rust on the turbo was really bothering me so I decided to see how rust reformer primer stands up to the heat. It turned it a cool blue color and is now black after the chemical reaction. Time will tell if it stays that way.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OJWMjSAp0ws/UAUlINgEU_I/AAAAAAAAGlk/u8X9a_dts88/s800/IMG_20120717_034029.jpg

I installed the timing belt, then uninstalled it because I forgot to put the darn motor mount on, then reinstalled it :p At least I installed the manifolds in the right order this time. INTAKE FIRST.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kf3vz_TRpXk/UAY5ztK_y-I/AAAAAAAAGlk/wYytMhiznX0/s800/IMG_20120717_232035.jpg

coolant sensors, water pump, oil feed block/lines, and dizzy installed.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0nakYB1gAck/UAZczx9udyI/AAAAAAAAGlk/AeilNF6Beq4/s800/IMG_20120718_015014.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KzCUUYFMILg/UAZc8Sm1tuI/AAAAAAAAGlk/3MSwbwzrjtM/s800/IMG_20120718_015021.jpg

Off the stand and clutch/flywheel installed. I also decided to go A/C delete this time since it doesn't work anyway. I can always change it back.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7RdfP35DSog/UAdBv-nrpwI/AAAAAAAAGlk/PqVMg1XL3yA/s800/IMG_20120718_180657.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mNbAP15CKIo/UAdB4FRvHcI/AAAAAAAAGlk/o2_oxFTuDpE/s800/IMG_20120718_180703.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-17fiNHPRz3k/UAdCEiOX95I/AAAAAAAAGlk/7Ptqs54WP1s/s800/IMG_20120718_180714.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Th2v8Z85dQU/UAdCRphBFmI/AAAAAAAAGlk/D1FKgq6ClSY/s800/IMG_20120718_180718.jpg

Paired up the tranny (much easier this time around) and packed up the garage before the rain came.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-w0p-F9iOikc/UAdCaccJ1TI/AAAAAAAAGlk/8cOT6-v4OR0/s800/IMG_20120718_180730.jpg

I was hoping to have the engine in tonight but the rain didn't allow it. tomorrow I guess. Until next time . . .

[cordes]

Great update. It's cool to see how this is progressing. Thanks for all the pics.

[turbovanman²]

Get a cheap hole punch set, I think I got mine for like $5 and our local Princess Auto, works great for making holes in our head gaskets, :eyebrows:

Did it get new rings?

Next time you have the block apart, drill and tap the oil galleys for 3/8 pipe plugs, never ever get another galley leak doing that, :p. If your adventurous, you can even do it in the car, :p

Steve in 3-2-1, lol.

[Shadowjake]

Same rings. They all sealed to 150 compression before.. The shop did run the ball hone through again though just to help them seat again. Should be fine. I'll test compression again after breaking it in.

[Rampage16V]

That's what I said at SDAC!


Well spoke with the shop. The big end of the #4 rod was out of round. It checked out fine if you mic it one way but if you rotate the mic about 45* it was way off. He said it looked like maybe the wrong cap was put on it after machining. Who knows. But they got a new TII rod and machined it and weight balanced it with the others. They will be reassembling the short block tomorrow and I should be able to pick it up Saturday. The shop isn't charging me anything for the fix. Great customer service!

[turbovanman²]

Same rings. They all sealed to 150 compression before.. The shop did run the ball hone through again though just to help them seat again. Should be fine. I'll test compression again after breaking it in.

They shouldn't have rehoned the bores, now your taking material off the rings again, :banghead:

[Shadowjake]

I didn't think they did until I saw the cross hatch when I was looking over and measuring the rod clearances. I called and asked if they honed it again and he said he just ran a mild ball hone through it to help it seat since the pistons were removed and inserted. Makes sense to me since some of the rings most likely aren't going up and down on the same worn path. New rings would have been the best thing to do, but hopefully it wears such a small amount it doesn't make any difference. The ring end gaps are tight and the gaps in the compression rings are 180* from each other, I made sure of that.

We'll see what compression tests out at.

---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 PM ----------


That's what I said at SDAC!

You DID! We should have made it a contest. YOU WIN. Would you like a cookie or a trophy? :D

[minigts]

You DID! We should have made it a contest. YOU WIN. Would you like a cookie or a trophy? :D

Take the cookie, the cookie Dean!!!

[black86glhs]

Dean likes the cookie!!!

[minigts]

Dean likes the cookie!!!


Who doesn't like cookies?! Can't eat a trophy.

[black86glhs]

Who doesn't like cookies?! Can't eat a trophy.Exactly.:nod:

[Shadowjake]

Well the CSX has gotten delayed. The girls clutch went out on her Accord so I'll be replacing it this weekend. I guess she has to get to work... Greasy grimy Hondas are not quite as much fun I've discovered.

[turbovanman²]

I didn't think they did until I saw the cross hatch when I was looking over and measuring the rod clearances. I called and asked if they honed it again and he said he just ran a mild ball hone through it to help it seat since the pistons were removed and inserted. Makes sense to me since some of the rings most likely aren't going up and down on the same worn path. New rings would have been the best thing to do, but hopefully it wears such a small amount it doesn't make any difference. The ring end gaps are tight and the gaps in the compression rings are 180* from each other, I made sure of that.

We'll see what compression tests out at.

They should know better, seated rings are seated rings, honing etc won't reseat rings again. If they are worn to the bore, leave it be, if they had seated before, they would work just fine.

[Shadowjake]

We expect them in this week.

Thanks!

Chris-TU

Well if this is the case and the TU aluminum radiators are going to be shipping soon, I am going to drag my feet for a bit and install the cooling system once. Probably order up an adjustable cam sprocket too . . .

More to follow.

[Shadowjake]

Got the adjustable cam sprocket installed and engine dropped in. Now just need to connect the wiring/vacuum/fuel/exhaust stuff and wait for the radiator. patiently. very patiently. (deep breaths)

[minigts]

hehe Well I'm sure it will look awesome when you're done with it and no more engine noise! Great log Jake, keep it up and let us know when you have it running again and "completed". :)

[Shadowjake]

Got the radiator installed today! Posting pics in the morning!

[Shadowjake]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OKLxQhs2vIU/UDvDn4jGNFI/AAAAAAAAHHU/MOJyUdeAdcE/s800/IMG_20120827_135719.jpg

As it looked when received. Packaged well and even a free sticker :thumb:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-pi0cj0HlMW8/UDvE8yMTjSI/AAAAAAAAHHU/1gX_q4KQ30w/s800/IMG_20120827_140348.jpg

Here is everything that came in the box. The radiator, the steel brackets (I didn't use), the nipple for L-bodies (I need to get a NPT plug instead), upper passenger side support, and instruction sheet (I never even unfolded).

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YerejN8dUDo/UDwSU5f-5_I/AAAAAAAAHHU/s4GCMFuYqA0/s800/IMG_20120827_193326.jpg

I debated the aluminum intercooler decision. But I didn't want to re-paint the radiator and the intercooler was practically down to bare alluminum anyway. Figured by painting it the same color as the base metal I could use a very thin coat, plus I think some that I've seen look dumb with a silver radiator and black intercooler (no offense guys).

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Tbnzb2xfP5M/UDwSd_ggMRI/AAAAAAAAHHU/Jw6cKlj5KTs/s800/IMG_20120827_193334.jpg

With the powder coated support brackets, I think it looks very nice!

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XI_HzvL_ilo/UDwSyhZaraI/AAAAAAAAHHU/2H5nU98z_jA/s800/IMG_20120827_193342.jpg

The stainless steel hardware adds a nice touch too I think.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kuYEi8iyYmA/UDwS6aRWL2I/AAAAAAAAHHU/IEc8n8fjD_k/s800/IMG_20120827_193351.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rkEs4Sl-c58/UDwWMFgvH3I/AAAAAAAAHHU/qaGhKlCAtxs/s800/IMG_20120827_195055.jpg

In it's new home.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vcw9wpm2MpQ/UDwWUKfT9xI/AAAAAAAAHHU/bAFffRwzops/s800/IMG_20120827_195103.jpg

The only issues I had are:

1. the 2 holes in this ^ picture on the top right I had to re-tap with M6x1.0. they were both boogered up with paint. Easy fix.

2. The bottom passenger side mount screw points were spaced differently than my stock bracket. I only used 1 bolt there and it lined up perfectly with the grommet holes so not really a problem.

3. The 90* upper passenger side mount needed to be cut out a little to move the bracket lower. I did it with a pair of tin snip easily.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_8K9S_cOq5M/UDwdp4bxqWI/AAAAAAAAHHU/0mGjazYqoBk/s800/IMG_20120827_202242.jpg

Front view. No more AC condenser in the way.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vZEul2AhBsI/UDwdyEp1KhI/AAAAAAAAHHU/NVsN8R7SVZ0/s800/IMG_20120827_202259.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-BpfniJYYz6Q/UDweAnlPUsI/AAAAAAAAHHU/CWvI4xJQXxY/s800/IMG_20120827_202308.jpg

Closeup of the passenger side top mount. above the top stainless steel bolt is where I had to remove a little metal so the bracket could slide down further. Otherwise it sat too high and wouldn't line up at the rubber grommet.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3r8CtVXQx1E/UDweHcad65I/AAAAAAAAHHU/DfGmpsunDhk/s800/IMG_20120827_202326.jpg

This is no fault of the radiator, but I'm curious if the intercooler will rub here. there is about 1mm space there. But since I'm using all the stock mounts, the position of the intercooler didn't change from stock. I'll keep an eye on it.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9pUufe3A_gU/UDwf34Z5jFI/AAAAAAAAHHU/gGTqfKDCU_Y/s800/IMG_20120827_203252.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XrpzIisIypo/UDwhfLmEf5I/AAAAAAAAHHU/ZIHiO4zCauc/s800/IMG_20120827_203946.jpg

^ I didn't even need these.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7WgRIPhiWKQ/UDweq6RSLNI/AAAAAAAAHHU/jEZJw0x1rYI/s800/IMG_20120827_202744.jpg

I still have to transfer the hoses and fan over. But here are some pics of the old crappy radiator i is being retired.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-WeRtQp1G2CE/UDweuazDz8I/AAAAAAAAHHU/s_xIAfofgbc/s800/IMG_20120827_202755.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-pHGdGphkguM/UDwey23-qpI/AAAAAAAAHHU/82b7lkwxOlA/s800/IMG_20120827_202823.jpg

Bottom bracket is coming apart and you can see the rusted fins pretty well from this angle.

[supercrackerbox]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3r8CtVXQx1E/UDweHcad65I/AAAAAAAAHHU/DfGmpsunDhk/s800/IMG_20120827_202326.jpg

This is no fault of the radiator, but I'm curious if the intercooler will rub here. there is about 1mm space there. But since I'm using all the stock mounts, the position of the intercooler didn't change from stock. I'll keep an eye on it.

In situations like that, I usually take a piece of fuel hose slit lengthwise and stick it over the edge of the sheetmetal to act as a buffer. Engine bay looks gorgeous though.

[Shadowjake]

She's alive! Forgot to torque the cam bolt after installing the adjustable sprocket and it backed out and hit the timing belt cover. Hearing that gave me a heart attack! All good now though. Time to start dialing her in. Post more information and pictures later.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

[cordes]

That is awesome. What an amazing job you've done with the car. You should be VERY proud of how far you've come with it in such a short amount of time.

[4 l-bodies]

Looks good Jake. Wheels and Wings car show in Osceola, WI Sept 8th, 2012 if your up for it. They usually get around 1000 cars! Free show. Tremendous variety at the show. Get there early if you go. Show ends by 3PM at the latest. I think they also have art fair and craft show and of course plane show at the same time. Lots to do.
Todd

[Shadowjake]

Darn it! I have drill weekend that weekend! Keep me posted on other events if you know! I'd like to share the car as much as I can.

[Shadowjake]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD_q_DmG8ro&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[minigts]

Cool man, glad it runs well! Looks incredible in the engine bay.

[omni_840]

Agreed, glad to see you got it all sorted out:)

[Shadowjake]

Thanks gentlemen!

[Shadowjake]

Got a pretty bad oil leak from the turbo. Pretty sure it's the return pipe. The flange where it bolts to the turbo wasn't perfectly flat (warped when welding?) so I tried to persuade it a little before installing it. It made it worse. I think I'll have to just bring it in somewhere and have them machine it flat. But I definitely can't leave it. I have oil sprayed about 1/2 way down my under carriage from it dripping steadily while driving. Rust protection I guess ;-)

Here are some pics finally:

Stock Shroud / Fan fit perfectly with no modification needed on mine. No rubbing or grinding needed anywhere!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-EA0oasBWgsM/UETWptw8S9I/AAAAAAAAHU0/ZsCJG6tQQm8/s800/IMG_20120831_165404.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QxZt4SBcslM/UETWnOVNruI/AAAAAAAAHUs/pQTc0XXs6Kc/s800/IMG_20120831_165411.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-s0sBEZIjZfM/UETWktO5MnI/AAAAAAAAHUk/vmW5ltIJIfA/s800/IMG_20120831_165422.jpg

Here's how I used my stock lower passenger mount. (I know, new pet----s are cheap. I just was in a hurry to fire it up.)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-f9AIll1p4LQ/UETWijEvRjI/AAAAAAAAHUc/57MNiml43Ew/s800/IMG_20120831_165433.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-N2VkajOu51k/UETWdkfZRnI/AAAAAAAAHUI/voRIyBfNYHk/s800/IMG_20120831_170250.jpg

Intake and battery installed.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ftXVRi1MZsI/UETWWPEbc-I/AAAAAAAAHTw/h0oPY0r_ymg/s800/IMG_20120831_184956.jpg

Got her running and this is after getting to my sister's house on the maiden voyage. Drove it hoodless ;-)
This is where I realized the cam bolt backed out! Yeeek!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iFfcWFnRJS0/UETWRo-I1kI/AAAAAAAAHTc/ipwTFY0gEzY/s800/IMG_20120901_124524.jpg

Fixed the cam bolt and drove it home. Installed the hood.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KtFkoo5cT2w/UETWI0Of4II/AAAAAAAAHS8/g90Mjq5tCzg/s800/IMG_20120901_192742.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-j3Ju9P9OxDk/UETWKnYCesI/AAAAAAAAHTE/ErcCFNjqssI/s800/IMG_20120901_193059.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0Waw6egWP6o/UETWMr07rgI/AAAAAAAAHTM/TQvtoCyjeJA/s800/IMG_20120901_193113.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-cFdqhrcjQtQ/UETWCqfKqDI/AAAAAAAAHSk/nDiI0wvGe5Q/s800/IMG_20120901_193135.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-thV-Wutonjo/UETWAal_FPI/AAAAAAAAHSc/OV4N4rlctXY/s800/IMG_20120901_193146.jpg

[turbovanman²]

That rad looks awesome, can't even tell its aftermarket, :thumb:

[Shadowjake]

Thanks Simon.

I just realized the forum censored pet kok in my last post. Haha.

[cordes]

Great work Jake. That engine bay is amazing.

[Shadowjake]

Thought the source of my oil leak was the PCV hose that is suppose to go to the intake (i just had open to atmosphere). So I rigged this up. It still has the leak (turbo return flange?) but at least my PCV system is in good shape now.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-h30iQP0_Ut0/UFi8buhOs-I/AAAAAAAAHlE/eYvLn3ViEjk/s800/IMG_20120918_132308.jpg

Painted, installed a grommet, and clamped on the 90 and filter. Walla, custom CAI that looks pretty decent. Looks much better than that spectra flex hose I had in there!

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Tve63kJeiSI/UFjkfEo4xMI/AAAAAAAAHlE/AQazq4p2R7U/s800/IMG_20120918_161332.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KF6v4Kp9JVU/UFjkoIstfCI/AAAAAAAAHlE/ssyhAIuisyA/s800/IMG_20120918_161344.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4wmOZku5jFM/UFjkw1vsEhI/AAAAAAAAHlE/m-mkEYilzSU/s800/IMG_20120918_161349.jpg

Here it is installed.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-X8-c6n7JbbE/UFjk86MUb2I/AAAAAAAAHlE/N2PDaqV6oto/s800/IMG_20120918_161657.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3sHiKe7CEFg/UFjlAA4w6mI/AAAAAAAAHlE/EF42sfrxgu4/s800/IMG_20120918_161712.jpg

The factory line reached perfectly.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6ZDhN7UBoTM/UFjqYINt1iI/AAAAAAAAHlE/MTeM8LP_h6Y/s800/IMG_20120918_163925.jpg

I also pulled the fuel pump and relaced this
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6s-iL9_v_yY/UFjcVuFB7lI/AAAAAAAAHlE/Iy9mJAB8c4o/s800/IMG_20120918_153934.jpg
With this
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-5VmciFqlJWM/UFjcSLPh4fI/AAAAAAAAHlE/YY0lnAYTc6Y/s800/IMG_20120918_153917.jpg

[turbovanman²]

One issue your going to have with your air breather setup is your going to blow alot of oil into the turbo and ducting, its really better just to route the line to a catch can.

Good job on getting rid of that damper, :thumb:

[cordes]

Jake, I have mine set up like you do and I don't have an oil issue in the CAI pipe. I don't run my car very hard though so that could be one of the reasons it's not. Now that I think about it, I've done it like that on two cars with no issues now.

[turbovanman²]

Jake, I have mine set up like you do and I don't have an oil issue in the CAI pipe. I don't run my car very hard though so that could be one of the reasons it's not. Now that I think about it, I've done it like that on two cars with no issues now.

Ever see the oil in the airbox on stock cars? that is why. If you drive it hard, it will put oil in the pipe.

[cordes]

Ever see the oil in the airbox on stock cars? that is why. If you drive it hard, it will put oil in the pipe.

I think it builds up over time on a healthy car. I was never able to run a lot of boost, but my omni was still driven hard and I never collected much more than a film of oil in the pipe.

ETA: I'm not saying the catch can isn't a good idea, but that it's not always necessary.

[turbovanman²]

True, most I've seen are soaked, lol.

[Shadowjake]

After about 200 miles, the knock is back. Same sound as before. Here's a video but you really can't hear it until I pick the camera back up. Even then it is a faint ticking noise right at tip in. It's louder in person. I noticed it while driving too but it can only be heard while driving at about 0-1psi. Then either the turbo drowns it out and I can't hear it anymore (most likely) or it goes away. Can't hear it in the cab at all until just entering boost.

I'm bummed.


http://youtu.be/fLKvm1ezbzc

[cordes]

What a drag. I sure hope you get this settled soon.

[ohlarikd]

Well, the last second of the video made me laugh, if that's worth anything...

When my Mustang Cobra was knocking, it sounded rather random, not as rythmic as yours. Is that how it sounded last time you had this issue?

By the way, the quote from two places to fix the knock in my crank bearing was $7000. Darn hand built engine. Sold it for a big loss. Cars can be very depressing sometimes.

[turbovanman²]

Sorry to hear that, :(

[Shadowjake]

I think I'm going to pull the pan this weekend and look at the bearings again. It is quieter than last time and is present at more engine load than before so maybe I'm just paranoid.

Having not heard a good running turbo dodge in so long (besides SDAC), my untrained ears have a hard time identifying the difference between valve train noise, injector clicking, exhaust leak, etc. Hopefully the bearings will look perfect. I measured them all with those micrometers I got (learning as I went) and all the clearances seemed good.

---------- Post added at 12:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 PM ----------

I was hoping to go to the track for the first time this weekend, but not anymore. Won't chance it.

[Shadowjake]

One thing I remember noticing was that the main and rod caps weren't as tight as the ARP torque specs say when I got it back from the shop. It was as if they torqued them to factory bolt spec when they assembled it. I did leave them my FSM just in case it helped. I re-torqued them to ARP spec after measuring the clearances. When I measured, I had them torqued to the higher ARP spec and it seemed to check out (but I was learning how to use a mic for the first time).

I wonder if this could be my problem. If torquing to ARP spec is deforming the journals because they weren't machined for it, would there be any harm in torquing them to the lower specs in the FSM and seeing if the knock goes away?

Just brainstorming / obsessing here. . .

[turbovanman²]

All I hear is piston noise, well that's what it sounds like to me.

As for the torque, they should be torqued to the recommended value, if they are machined at a different setting then yes, it can affect roundness etc.

Here are the specs-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/knowledge.php?title=Engines:ARP-Bolt-Stud-and-Eagle-Rod-Torque-Specs

[Shadowjake]

Piston noise as in slap and wrist pin noise? Or rod knock? They are forged wisecos with floating pins. Think the sound could be normal?

[Shadowjake]

Here are the specs-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/knowledge.php?title=Engines:ARP-Bolt-Stud-and-Eagle-Rod-Torque-Specs

Cool thats what I used when I reassembled. Before I disassembled, I torqued the rods and mains to those specs out of curiosity and got probably a quarter turn out of all of them.

[turbovanman²]

Hard to say without a better quality sound but to me, simply sounds like piston noise, excessive piston clearance, which is ok to run as is. Have you tried killing cylinders one by one? What's your oil pressure?

[Shadowjake]

Haven't done a drop test yet. Do that tonight. But pressure is good. 50 cold, 20 warm.

[Shadowjake]

Ugh, thank god. I am pretty confident it is just piston slap I was hearing. It doesn't make it once the engine is warm. Should have known better. Just took her for a spirited drive and it was fun!

Running a little lean in first and second. 13.5 or so. But by 4th it richens up to 10.5 or so and backfires a little bit on decal. Now it's time to learn how to tune...

[Shadowjake]

Another strange thing is my boost spikes to 17 or 18 and settles at 16. It's a 20psi cal from Rob. It is set to 20 in MPTuner. My wastegate rod has plenty of tension. Even tightened it to be sure. Autometer boost gauge.

[turbovanman²]

Ugh, thank god. I am pretty confident it is just piston slap I was hearing. It doesn't make it once the engine is warm. Should have known better. Just took her for a spirited drive and it was fun!

Running a little lean in first and second. 13.5 or so. But by 4th it richens up to 10.5 or so and backfires a little bit on decal. Now it's time to learn how to tune...

That sounds right, forged pistons make noise when cold due to having larger bore clearances than cast pistons so as long as it gets quieter warm then its piston clearance related. Bearings are the other way, ok cold but noisey when warm as the oil thins out.


Another strange thing is my boost spikes to 17 or 18 and settles at 16. It's a 20psi cal from Rob. It is set to 20 in MPTuner. My wastegate rod has plenty of tension. Even tightened it to be sure. Autometer boost gauge.

Not sure, that's why I prefer an EBC or MBC, rock solid boost. Are the orifices there? Maybe you have it too tight?

[Shadowjake]

Wouldn't too tight cause over boost? Yes the 1 yellow orifice is there by the wastegate. The second one goes to the gauge right. I don't have that one. Boost gauge is hooked to the driver side nipple on the throttle body.

[Shadowjake]

Oh and thanks again for the help Simon.

[cordes]

Whew. Glad it was just the piston slap as the motor warms up. What a relief.

[Shadowjake]

Yeah. Nope. Got the same noise but worse now coming from the driver side of the block. Pulled the oil pan tonight to check the bearings and they all look beautiful. Except for the one I can't check without pulling the tranny. And it's making some pretty unmistakable noise. I drug my feet on checking it out so I deserve it, but no drag or much driving period at SDAC for this guy... Today was fun though. Only got about 16 pounds before the CEL came on (because of the shitty bearing). But she moves along really well....

[Shadowjake]

Now it sounds like the head again. You guys are going to have to listen to it this week. I hate being that guy but I can't figure it out. Throws the CEL on knock at about 15 psi too. Not sure if it is really knock or the vibration.

[DC Turismo]

Jake

Glad to have finally met ya... Keep up the good work