Started 3" Exhaust project for 87 SC

[ohlarikd]

I had made a post during the winter about getting a 3" exhaust from swingvalve to tail. Well, I finally ordered the 3" JRB style pipe from FWD. I am getting the 3" SV from Shadow. Parts are in the mail.

Spent this weekend trying to follow the instructions to remove the head/manifold/turbo. I have to say it was not as easy as the various web pages spell out (Kizer/Allpar). Mostly because I did not know what and where some of the parts that are referred to are. I had to cut off the bolt on the bracket that hold the turbo to the block, and I think I may have destroyed the oil line fitting on the front of the block. Those two bolts alone took hours. Man I am frustrated, dejected, beaten down, and having regrets. Welcome to working on old cars. I need a few days to calm down.

I am having a friend come over to help me lift the assembly out of the car, assuming I detached the 2452 things that needed to be removed. I remember someone had some 'easy method' to do this. There was a blanket draped over the front of the car, that is all I remember. Anyone have this link?

Derek

[GLHNSLHT2]

engine hoist? strap the cam and lift the head out that way. Why didn't you just unbolt the turbo support bracket from the block and let it come out with the head? They put that there to keep the manifold from cracking.

[ohlarikd]

engine hoist? strap the cam and lift the head out that way. Why didn't you just unbolt the turbo support bracket from the block and let it come out with the head? They put that there to keep the manifold from cracking.

I did unbolt the bracket from the block, but it didn't look like it was going to clear. Seems like there was already enough things dangling about that were going to get snagged on the way out.

Lack of experience on my part is what is making this all difficult.

Derek

[jory]

You only have a few things to disconnect underneath. The oil return line, coolant supply line, exhaust, and turbo to block bracket assuming its still there. Cut the oil feed if the fittings are rusted and replace it with new, same goes for the coolant return. Take care of the timing belt and a/c bracket, remove head bolts and lift the assy out. I had the head off my Daytona in 45 minutes last time I did it.

[ohlarikd]

You only have a few things to disconnect underneath. The oil return line, coolant supply line, exhaust, and turbo to block bracket assuming its still there. Cut the oil feed if the fittings are rusted and replace it with new, same goes for the coolant return. Take care of the timing belt and a/c bracket, remove head bolts and lift the assy out. I had the head off my Daytona in 45 minutes last time I did it.

I do not doubt 45 minutes. I think you missed about 50% of the things that need to be removed though - wires, vacuum lines, fuel lines... but if you have done it before, I think you eventually can make quicker work of it. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what/where everything was and labeling things.

Where do I get a new oil line that runs from the front of the block, wraps around the side of the head to the rubber mid-piece? That needs to be replaced...
Scratch that: http://www.fwdperformance.com/store/Product.asp?IDCatalog=71&ProductID=670



Derek

[ohlarikd]

Finally got this head/manifold/turbo off. Here is a pic of the 23 year old gasket. The corner has the crushed steel encroaching the cylinder. Somehow it didn't burn up like most do.

[ohlarikd]

So then I go to take the swing valve off. What is wrong with this picture?

[ohlarikd]

Now I can't get this tube off on the turbo. Need to get this off the swing valve. What is it? Need to look at service manual. But those giant nuts are not budging, and I can't really get an impact gun on them.

[moparman76_69]

Looks like EGR valve?

[ohlarikd]

I think I am suppose to remove all that EGR crap. The new SV will not have a provision for EGR.

Now, inspection doesn't look for the EGR valve, but I have a little concern that I will fail emissions. This is suppose to 'reduce oxides of nitrogen in the engine exhaust'.

Hmm... should I be worried?

Derek

[thefitisgay]

it is the egr tube... youll only fail if they have a sniffer or are smart enough to look for it

if in doubt make it look like its there and plug it

[4 l-bodies]

I think I am suppose to remove all that EGR crap. The new SV will not have a provision for EGR.

Now, inspection doesn't look for the EGR valve, but I have a little concern that I will fail emissions. This is suppose to 'reduce oxides of nitrogen in the engine exhaust'.

Hmm... should I be worried?

Derek

Derek,
IMO, with that Spearco intercooler on there no inspector is going to see the EGR valve anyway unless you piss em off and they are looking for a reason to fail your vehicle. All intercooled cars after the 86 GLHS as well as the 89+ TI did not have EGR. I should point out the CA cars did but hey that doesn't count in NJ. No worries. If you gonna keep that cast 90 degree inlet, you can keep the EGR transducer installed for visual effect. Just drill and tap with 3/8 NPT pipe plug.
Todd

[Marcus86GLHS]

+1^.

in my experience here in Nazi Connecticut, if you have a good catalytic convertor, the abscence of the egr system is unlikely to cause a failure to pass a sniff test. looks like you are having a lot of fun installing your new parts. :-)

[supercrackerbox]

So then I go to take the swing valve off. What is wrong with this picture?

Needed a lot more PB Blaster on them before you pulled them . . . You definately broke a couple off, and the others have damaged threads. I'm really not sure what the best approach would be here.

As for the EGR tube, you'll probably need to heat it up really good with a torch to break it loose from the old swing valve.

[ohlarikd]

Needed a lot more PB Blaster on them before you pulled them . . . You definately broke a couple off, and the others have damaged threads. I'm really not sure what the best approach would be here.

As for the EGR tube, you'll probably need to heat it up really good with a torch to break it loose from the old swing valve.

For every other bolt I sprayed, if I didn't let it soak enough, it just wouldn't budge with the impact gun. So I assumed the same for these SV bolts. But I guess they were weakened from the heat, or brittle from rust, that they broke pretty easily. Perhaps if I let them soak overnight or used more over two days... but too late now.

I will try the left hand drill bit method first.

I am not too upset though - my biggest fear was breaking a bolt in the BLOCK, which is still in the car.

Derek

[Shadow]

For every other bolt I sprayed, if I didn't let it soak enough, it just wouldn't budge with the impact gun. So I assumed the same for these SV bolts. But I guess they were weakened from the heat, or brittle from rust, that they broke pretty easily. Perhaps if I let them soak overnight or used more over two days... but too late now.

I will try the left hand drill bit method first.

I am not too upset though - my biggest fear was breaking a bolt in the BLOCK, which is still in the car.

Derek

Your lucky only 2 broke! I've seen some ugly when it comes to old turbine bolts! Once you have everything apart, LMK what all was damaged/broken/needs to be replaced. I have at least 10 of every brkt oil line nut bolt ect for these cars. ;)

Also, I could weld an EGR bung on the 3" S/V if you Really want one.

[ohlarikd]

Your lucky only 2 broke! I've seen some ugly when it comes to old turbine bolts! Once you have everything apart, LMK what all was damaged/broken/needs to be replaced. I have at least 10 of every brkt oil line nut bolt ect for these cars. ;)

Also, I could weld an EGR bung on the 3" S/V if you Really want one.

Rob - great! I was thinking put the bung on, and put a screw-in plug in it for now. See how the NOx test goes, which they do here in NJ. If I fail, I guess I'll have to reattach EGR. Hopefully I can do that without taking everything out of the car again. Maybe they make a high tempo flexible braided line instead of the hard line so it will be easier to attach after-the-fact. I have the line on the EGR, but cap the line. Is there such a hose?

And yes, I broke two bolts, and sawed off the underside turbo bracket bolt so far...

Thanks! Things are going a little slower than I expected, but this is not news to anyone here that has worked on these cars. I am learning a lot in the process, which is always a good thing.


Derek

[Vigo]

Lack of experience on my part is what is making this all difficult.

At least you recognize and admit it. Thats the first step in getting people to help you instead of just losing all respect for you. :p

So are you doing a t2/intake manifold conversion as well? It seems so but i just want to be sure. Because if you are doing that, you will have to ditch the compressor housing elbow with the EGR setup on it anyway, and at that point i dont think anyone would know that it was disconnected.. because it just wouldnt exist.

[ohlarikd]

At least you recognize and admit it. Thats the first step in getting people to help you instead of just losing all respect for you. :p

So are you doing a t2/intake manifold conversion as well? It seems so but i just want to be sure. Because if you are doing that, you will have to ditch the compressor housing elbow with the EGR setup on it anyway, and at that point i dont think anyone would know that it was disconnected.. because it just wouldnt exist.

Oh I definitely am relying on everyone here with this! I have service manuals, this website, and the members here. If it wasn't for this board, I never would have started this in the first place. So thanks!

As for TII, no conversion. This all started because I needed a Catalytic converter on my car. So then I said might as well go 3". Then I realized I need a 3" SV. Then I need to remove the turbo/head/manifold. Might as well replace head gasket. Snowball effect...

As for EGR, no one will look for it in inspection. NJ DMV does not lift the hood. But they do run emissions tests at the tailpipe. I am afraid it will somehow make the exhaust dirtier and I will fail. That is the only reason. Why doesn't a TII have it? Is there some other system, or was it deemed ineffective?

Derek

[Vigo]

Well, if you are keeping the log setup, i would say just keep all the stuff at the compressor cover, but cut the pipe somewhere near the swingvalve and just pinch it and weld it shut. It will look operational from above, and noone will bother to look at the bottom.

As for why it's not there on T2's.. id say because it wasnt needed to hit emissions targets at that time. I doubt you will fail without it.

[ohlarikd]

Well, if you are keeping the log setup, i would say just keep all the stuff at the compressor cover, but cut the pipe somewhere near the swingvalve and just pinch it and weld it shut. It will look operational from above, and noone will bother to look at the bottom.

As for why it's not there on T2's.. id say because it wasnt needed to hit emissions targets at that time. I doubt you will fail without it.

I may have to cut the pipe anyway in order to get a large socket around that swingvalve nut. I can leave the rest alone, yes. I can't get any of that EGR stuff off anyway, its practically permanent at this point...

You are the only person I know with a Dodge Dynasty. We had several of those in my family - nice ride!

Derek

[Shadow]

Oh I definitely am relying on everyone here with this! I have service manuals, this website, and the members here. If it wasn't for this board, I never would have started this in the first place. So thanks!

As for TII, no conversion. This all started because I needed a Catalytic converter on my car. So then I said might as well go 3". Then I realized I need a 3" SV. Then I need to remove the turbo/head/manifold. Might as well replace head gasket. Snowball effect...

As for EGR, no one will look for it in inspection. NJ DMV does not lift the hood. But they do run emissions tests at the tailpipe. I am afraid it will somehow make the exhaust dirtier and I will fail. That is the only reason. Why doesn't a TII have it? Is there some other system, or was it deemed ineffective?

Derek

As long as everything is working properly including your o2 sensor you should be fine for emissions. IF you were ever going to concider swapping to the newer style intake mani + 4 wire AIS I would say this would be a good time. You are going to have everything apart that you would have to take apart to do the swap and it's not that difficult to do. ;)

[ohlarikd]

As long as everything is working properly including your o2 sensor you should be fine for emissions. IF you were ever going to concider swapping to the newer style intake mani + 4 wire AIS I would say this would be a good time. You are going to have everything apart that you would have to take apart to do the swap and it's not that difficult to do. ;)


I agree this is a good time, but I have ZERO parts for a conversion, and haven't done any of the research. I imagine it would take 1 or 2 months to get everything together, and I really want to drive this car soon...

I am not sure I would gain too much performance wise with a stock conversion - I already have upgraded injectors, turbo, 20 PSI, log manifold Spearco intercooler. Is there a point to the conversion? I imagine to realize any real gains over what I have now, I would need to do more, like head work. And of course, this will all cost $$...

Derek

[thefitisgay]

logs dont breath

if they put a sniffer in your pipe you might need a restriction in it so that the gasses get hot enough anyway

[ohlarikd]

I started reading this:

http://fwdmopar.50megs.com/T2conv.html

I would have a lot of parts to gather. I don't think the WORK is hard, it's the gathering. I'd have to think about this and see if its worth it. I have no traction right now as it is on the street with my current setup, so I am not itching to do it, unless someone could convince me.

I think if I didn't already have a working intercooler system in my T1 Log Manifold, I would convert.

Derek

[ohlarikd]

Here is a pic of the modified-for-intercooling T1 log manifold - kinda cool I think.

[ohlarikd]

Big tall white box from FWD Performance has arrived... too bad I am no where near ready for it.

[supercrackerbox]

So then I said might as well go 3". Then I realized I need a 3" SV.

You don't need the 3" swingvalve for the downpipe to fit. I've got a 2.5" housing from an '89 TII on my Charger with the 3" downpipe. But the 3" swingvalve will fit better, and since you would have had to change it anyway, the 3" was a good choice.

[moparman76_69]

Here is a pic of the modified-for-intercooling T1 log manifold - kinda cool I think.

Spearco kit?

[ohlarikd]

Spearco kit?

Yep! Side mount internal kit. I plan to extend the piping and run a FMIC. Otherwise, the rest of the kit is fine, and pretty rare. Another reason why I want to keep it. I am not planning high horsepower for this particular car, so I am ok with stock manifold.

Derek

[Shadow]

I started reading this:

http://fwdmopar.50megs.com/T2conv.html

I would have a lot of parts to gather. I don't think the WORK is hard, it's the gathering. I'd have to think about this and see if its worth it. I have no traction right now as it is on the street with my current setup, so I am not itching to do it, unless someone could convince me.

I think if I didn't already have a working intercooler system in my T1 Log Manifold, I would convert.

Derek

I keep forgetting that you have the Spearco I/C on there. The big reason to convert is the ease of I/C and the ability to run upgrade turbos, but there would also be a performance gain from better flow. Like you said, your happy with the power you have, so prob no reason to change. There's a lot of hack info on this, but if you were interested, I could put together the parts easily and I have specific instructions that work right.

[ohlarikd]

I keep forgetting that you have the Spearco I/C on there. The big reason to convert is the ease of I/C and the ability to run upgrade turbos, but there would also be a performance gain from better flow. Like you said, your happy with the power you have, so prob no reason to change. There's a lot of hack info on this, but if you were interested, I could put together the parts easily and I have specific instructions that work right.

Yeah, bigger power will probably be for another car, not this one. I want to leave this one almost as is and drive it daily. I have an idea to build up an engine for the next car so I can learn and take my time - pick the right parts, have some goals, etc. etc. That motor will probably start as a bare block, and I want to build it from ground up. Best way to learn.

Derek

[Chad T]

.

I will try the left hand drill bit method first.



I would skip that. Those always just break off. Plus those bolts are really hard to drill.

The key to getting those out is getting them real hot. If there is something left to get a bite on with some vise grips you can get a cheap map gas torch at the hardware store, Spray them with the blaster and then heat them up.

Good luck!

You can also take them to a good machine shop and get them drilled out. They will cuss you if you have easy-outs broken off in there. Might also be a good idea to have the head inspected and re-surfaced if needed.

You're bringing back memories of my swingvalve install. I'm now getting ready to take the head off for the 4th time.

You'll also want to clean out the holes in the block for the head bolts and get new bolts or studs. I'm taking my head off now because I had 2 bolts that were either over-stretched or bottomed out on something causing the gasket to leak.

[ohlarikd]

I would skip that. Those always just break off. Plus those bolts are really hard to drill.

The key to getting those out is getting them real hot. If there is something left to get a bite on with some vise grips you can get a cheap map gas torch at the hardware store, Spray them with the blaster and then heat them up.

Good luck!

You can also take them to a good machine shop and get them drilled out. They will cuss you if you have easy-outs broken off in there. Might also be a good idea to have the head inspected and re-surfaced if needed.

You're bringing back memories of my swingvalve install. I'm now getting ready to take the head off for the 4th time.

You'll also want to clean out the holes in the block for the head bolts and get new bolts or studs. I'm taking my head off now because I had 2 bolts that were either over-stretched or bottomed out on something causing the gasket to leak.

I am not using the Easy Out. I 'plan' to drill a small center hole and then get progressively larger with the left hand bits and PB Blaster. In 'theory' it should come out. I have a MAP gas torch as well. A few grenades, flak jacket, bomb suit, I am ready to battle.

But yeah, I heard they are very hard to drill. Its only about 1/3" of bolt in there. I have to at least give it a try before hauling this over to some machine shop. I won't try the easy out-vise grip method, in case it breaks.



Derek

[Chad T]

I am not using the Easy Out. I 'plan' to drill a small center hole and then get progressively larger with the left hand bits and PB Blaster. In 'theory' it should come out. I have a MAP gas torch as well. A few grenades, flak jacket, bomb suit, I am ready to battle.

Ah I see. The drill spins in reverse so if it catches it might spin it out. Sounds like you're all set. Gotta at least try it. Sometimes you get lucky. I think I got one of mine out and had to have one drilled. I broke 2 as well. Also broke 2 exhaust studs in the head. (one was already broken and the manifold was leaking). You learn a lot about stuck fasteners doing this job. :p

[thefitisgay]

if you step it up to the same size as the small hole of the threads you might be able to tap it and tap out the bolt threads leaving the hole threads perfect

you have to get youre ceneter drill hole perfectly center though usually if you do it good you can just unwind the threads from the hole but seeing as how hardened the threads are from heat cycles they wont be bendable enough to do it

[ohlarikd]

Yeah it has a chance of spinning out with the left hand drill bit when the walls get thinner. And the tap idea is pretty good too if its get real thin. The tap will break it apart. There is some glimmer of hope.

But right now I can't get the EGR nut off the swingvalve. In hindsight, I should have tried to take that off FIRST because now there is no support with the swing valve flopping around. I've been spraying it with PB Blaster and just torched it with MAP gas. Now its 2 billion degrees so I have to wait till it cools off. The heat is suppose to break the bonds between the metal.

I may have to cut the tube and take the SV to a vise to hold it while I battle that giant nut. I can then access the broken bolts. Guess this will have to wait till Friday night or Saturday.

[thefitisgay]

try heating the sv and spraying the nut so the sv expands and the nut doesnt as much

[Keito]

If the bolt is broken and sticking out, you could try to have someone weld a nut on it and turn it out.
My welder at work has done this for me a few times.
He said the heat from welding the nut to the broken stud "breaks" the seized
bolt loose, then you just turn it out.
Obviously if its broken below the surface it's not going to work.

[Shadow]

If the bolt is broken and sticking out, you could try to have someone weld a nut on it and turn it out.
My welder at work has done this for me a few times.
He said the heat from welding the nut to the broken stud "breaks" the seized
bolt loose, then you just turn it out.
Obviously if its broken below the surface it's not going to work.

I do this all the time and it usually works Great! Doesn't alway turn on the first try, but you break off the weld and then get a better bond each time you do it. (cleaner weld surface) If your patient, it almost always works. Just have to be very carefull not to weld the bolt to the housing.

[Vigo]

In my experience, if you CAN get that EGR pipe fitting off the old swingvalve, it will pull the threads out with it. Why do you need it? If your new SV has a hole there you can just use a pipe plug. I think some SVs came this way.

[Chad T]

Just have to be very carefull not to weld the bolt to the housing.

That's what happened to mine when I had a buddy weld a nut on it for me. I didn't have much stud left to weld to though.

Here's what it looked like by the time I finally gave up and took it to a machine shop.

http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/gallery2/d/82083-1/turdbine.JPG

[Juggy]

you dont need much to convert to TII.
just a basic knowledge of wiring so u can add the extra wires into the pins. then decide if u want to run GLHS 86 TII electronics. or 87 TII (external map and i think comp is a lil quicker to read). you can also smec with S60 style harness. or swap a dash harness from a 88-90 TBI omni n/a car, and get yourself a minivan turbo harness same year to match. and its basically plug and play (move 1 pin...easy to do...)

then the intake manny complete. and a couple other minor things. 1 piece intake manifolds are given away around here pretty much. do not pay more then 40 bucks for a complete intake manny!

i got an 87 tooo....and i have scrapped 1 myself, and seen at least 1 or 2 others too...i wonder how many are actually around still!!! 1,011 of them...plus 1000 GLHS' cars.

[shackwrrr]

with the intercooler your NOx will be lower than needed for the test. If you wanted you could temporarily put a fan on it to help out

[thefitisgay]

with the intercooler your NOx will be lower than needed for the test. If you wanted you could temporarily put a fan on it to help out

some foreighn cars have lil baby fans just perfect for that

[ohlarikd]

with the intercooler your NOx will be lower than needed for the test. If you wanted you could temporarily put a fan on it to help out

I didn't know that - good to know if I fail. Although its gonna be tough to put a fan on the setup I have. Not much space with the side mount intercooler, maybe 2 computer fans would fit.

Sawed off the EGR pipe. Gonna weld the pipe shut, except I need to run a 220V line first. No more room in breaker box... nothing is ever easy.

Derek

[thefitisgay]

flatten it and fold it over itself a couple times then hammer the folded spot flat i fix brake lines that way

[ohlarikd]

flatten it and fold it over itself a couple times then hammer the folded spot flat i fix brake lines that way

I admit that idea crossed my mind... didn't think it would get the 'ok'... I am not to sure how 'air tight' this EGR line has to be in order for things to work. Does it really matter if regular air gets in there? I don't think the valve will open - need to look at 'theory of operation' in the service manual tonight.

Derek

[thefitisgay]

figure out if the egr valve is normally open or closed with the hose off and either take the hose off or take the hose off put a BB in it and put it back on

and i think its pretty damn air tight if it holds brake fluid injust get like 5 good folds and you can always put something like jb weld inthere before you flatten and fold it

[Dusty_Duster]

I wrote an article for the Knowledge Base about converting to TII electronics. Seriously, if I can do it, anyone can.

[ohlarikd]

I wrote an article for the Knowledge Base about converting to TII electronics. Seriously, if I can do it, anyone can.

I look at the article, thanks. But reality is, there is no real good reason for me to do it since I already have an intercooler in there. I might get a modest gain, but its not worth the money or effort to collect the parts to me at this point.

Next car maybe if its a stock T1.

Derek

[4 l-bodies]

Derek,
Remember I've got several swingvalves with and without the EGR bung. Think a couple of them are brand new. I also have a spare compressor elbow I could drill and tap for a NPT plug. IMO, fix it right, or you risk doing it over again. You must like the challenge of the fight.
Like I said the the fitting is not coming off until you melt the zinc or cadmium plating that is now effectively brazed the fitting to the swingvalve.
Todd

[ohlarikd]

Derek,
Remember I've got several swingvalves with and without the EGR bung. Think a couple of them are brand new. I also have a spare compressor elbow I could drill and tap for a NPT plug. IMO, fix it right, or you risk doing it over again. You must like the challenge of the fight.
Like I said the the fitting is not coming off until you melt the zinc or cadmium plating that is now effectively brazed the fitting to the swingvalve.
Todd

I already sawed it off and sent the swingvalve with the nut still attached... gave up the fight pretty quickly on that one.

This weekend I have to work on those broken bolts... that is where the real fight begins.

Derek

[Dusty_Duster]

I look at the article, thanks. But reality is, there is no real good reason for me to do it since I already have an intercooler in there. I might get a modest gain, but its not worth the money or effort to collect the parts to me at this point.

Next car maybe if its a stock T1.

Derek

Wrong. If your car has Turbo I electronics, adding an intercooler does NOTHING for you other than helping to prevent detonation. Your car does not have an intake temperature sensor, so the computer does not know how cool the air is entering the cylinders.

[ohlarikd]

Wrong. If your car has Turbo I electronics, adding an intercooler does NOTHING for you other than helping to prevent detonation. Your car does not have an intake temperature sensor, so the computer does not know how cool the air is entering the cylinders.

I admit I do not know enough about this system to answer this, I will let Todd do that. However, my assumption is that I am able to run 20 PSI due to this intercooler. There is some diode on the computer, which is a mod that I have been meaning to research, but I haven't had the time.

I guess this car is running fine the way it is, I already have no traction in 1st or 2nd, so I haven't really had any incentive to get more power at this time. I would like to get it back together with minimum fuss and drive it already.

Derek

[supercrackerbox]

Wrong. If your car has Turbo I electronics, adding an intercooler does NOTHING for you other than helping to prevent detonation. Your car does not have an intake temperature sensor, so the computer does not know how cool the air is entering the cylinders.

Actually the early log TI does have an intake temp sensor.

[4 l-bodies]

Wrong. If your car has Turbo I electronics, adding an intercooler does NOTHING for you other than helping to prevent detonation. Your car does not have an intake temperature sensor, so the computer does not know how cool the air is entering the cylinders.
Well Dusty Duster, your wrong. Early log manifold cars HAD charge temp sensors. The later TI one piece manifold car did not. Perhaps this is where you got your incorrect information. Intercooling ANY turbo car will result in a performance gain even without increasing boost levels, because it has a much cooler & denser intake charge temp. Cooler charge temp equals denser air. That equals more horse power. Whether you have enough fuel to take advantage of that is another debate.
Ask yourself this. Why would Direct Connection develop and market a intercooler package for this application if all it could do (in your words) is prevent detonation? That's a lot of effort and expense, by your logic, when just decreasing timing could have accomplished the same thing.

[ohlarikd]

Well. Trying to get broken bolts out of turbo. I had left hand drill bits. Regular drill bits. Two types of screw extractors. Soaking for a week in Blaster. Drilled out bolts until not much left.

blah blah blah long story short, there is now a broken screw extractor in the turbo.

Hopeless. I may try to Helicoil it, I think its a M8 1.25 hole. But now I think I have to remove turbo. Still thinking about just getting a new turbo. I don't know. Sigh.

Derek

[ohlarikd]

How the HE|| do you get this turbo off? Seems like there is always 1 bolt or nut that is totally inaccessible. What is the easiest procedure to remove it from the exhaust manifold?

THANKS

Derek

[cordes]

How the HE|| do you get this turbo off? Seems like there is always 1 bolt or nut that is totally inaccessible. What is the easiest procedure to remove it from the exhaust manifold?

THANKS

Derek

I have posted up an in car procedure a couple of times now. I basically use a little heat and a 15mm long pattern wrench to get the two on the passenger side off.

The upper left nut can be removed with a 3/8" drive ratchet with an extension on it. I do use a pair of vise grips on the ratchet to break it free though.

The lower left nut is the real pain. You can get a regular patter wrench up there with enough fenageling.

[ohlarikd]

I have posted up an in car procedure a couple of times now. I basically use a little heat and a 15mm long pattern wrench to get the two on the passenger side off.

The upper left nut can be removed with a 3/8" drive ratchet with an extension on it. I do use a pair of vise grips on the ratchet to break it free though.

The lower left nut is the real pain. You can get a regular patter wrench up there with enough fenageling.

So it is possible to just go for the 4 nuts on the manifold flange without trying to remove anything else? I can get stuff in there, but they are not coming off without another fight. So I thought there was some other trick. I have them soaking in Blaster, hopefully a normal sized wrench will be able to loosen them. I got the two easy ones off the passenger side with the socket extension - its the other two driver side ones that are stuck.

Thanks for some experience...

Derek

[cordes]

So it is possible to just go for the 4 nuts on the manifold flange without trying to remove anything else? I can get stuff in there, but they are not coming off without another fight. So I thought there was some other trick. I have them soaking in Blaster, hopefully a normal sized wrench will be able to loosen them. I got the two easy ones off the passenger side with the socket extension - its the other two driver side ones that are stuck.

Thanks for some experience...

Derek

You will need to drop the down pipe, and take off the coolant line at the back of the block and the head, along with the support bracket. Of course you would need to remove all but the line going to the head even if you pulled the head anyway.

[ohlarikd]

By some alignment of the stars, I was able to get the turbo off the manifold. I used a crow foot, a short extension going backwards under the head, and a impact gun in reverse. Loosened it up and I was able to get it off with my fingers.

Now its the (6 or 8) 1/2" bolts that hold the exhaust impeller housing... not budging of course. Another day of soaking.

I can see why people at this point would do the TII swap, there isn't much left, as SHADOW says...

Derek

[cordes]

By some alignment of the stars, I was able to get the turbo off the manifold. I used a crow foot, a short extension going backwards under the head, and a impact gun in reverse. Loosened it up and I was able to get it off with my fingers.

Now its the (6 or 8) 1/2" bolts that hold the exhaust impeller housing... not budging of course. Another day of soaking.

I can see why people at this point would do the TII swap, there isn't much left, as SHADOW says...

Derek

I would heat up the SV bolts until they are quite warm. They are nearly sure to snap otherwise.

[ohlarikd]

I would heat up the SV bolts until they are quite warm. They are nearly sure to snap otherwise.

These are the small bolts that go around the impeller housing, like 6 or 9 of them. I already snapped off the SV bolts - took care of that already :yuck:

Rather than try and get the snapped bolts machines out of the housing, Todd is sending me a spare housing he had lying around to bolt on. Nice! Just need to get the impeller housing bolts off. Been spraying them every night, waiting for the weekend.

Derek

[cordes]

These are the small bolts that go around the impeller housing, like 6 or 9 of them. I already snapped off the SV bolts - took care of that already :yuck:

Rather than try and get the snapped bolts machines out of the housing, Todd is sending me a spare housing he had lying around to bolt on. Nice! Just need to get the impeller housing bolts off. Been spraying them every night, waiting for the weekend.

Derek

I see. In that case, I usually put a wrench on there and whack it with a 3lb. dead blow hammer.

[ohlarikd]

I see. In that case, I usually put a wrench on there and whack it with a 3lb. dead blow hammer.

I have a BFH waiting in the wings...

I am also going to get a 1/2" crow foot and try ye 'ol impact gun. That has worked several times for me to just break a bolt free. Or break it off... but it won't matter if it breaks off in this case since I am chucking the old housing.

Derek

[cordes]

I have a BFH waiting in the wings...

I am also going to get a 1/2" crow foot and try ye 'ol impact gun. That has worked several times for me to just break a bolt free. Or break it off... but it won't matter if it breaks off in this case since I am chucking the old housing.

Derek

I keep forgetting that you are ditching the housing. In that case just use a cutoff wheel on an angle grinder for maximum efficiency.

[ohlarikd]

The head is all ready to go to Steve. I live about 1.5 hours away from him, so I am going to drop it off next week. Only broke one exhaust manifold stud... hopefully Steve can get that out.

As for the turbo housing, two of the ~1/2" bolts that hold the housing on have rounded off. I was looking for some wrench that grips from the sides, but now I cannot find them anywhere. Otherwise, I need to grind them off I guess, but I am afraid to damage that ring that the bolts go through. What is that ring? And can I get them somewhere if I damage mine?

I hate sounding like I know nothing. But I know nothing.

Derek

[4 l-bodies]

The head is all ready to go to Steve. I live about 1.5 hours away from him, so I am going to drop it off next week. Only broke one exhaust manifold stud... hopefully Steve can get that out.

As for the turbo housing, two of the ~1/2" bolts that hold the housing on have rounded off. I was looking for some wrench that grips from the sides, but now I cannot find them anywhere. Otherwise, I need to grind them off I guess, but I am afraid to damage that ring that the bolts go through. What is that ring? And can I get them somewhere if I damage mine?

I hate sounding like I know nothing. But I know nothing.

Derek

Derek,
Go ahead and damage those rings if you have to. I'll be sending you two with the exhaust housing. I cleaned up the exhaust housing with some aluminum oxide in the cabinet, so it should go on nice and easy for you. I'll get the housing out in the mail Monday. I think I have your address somewhere.
Todd

[ohlarikd]

Derek,
Go ahead and damage those rings if you have to. I'll be sending you two with the exhaust housing. I cleaned up the exhaust housing with some aluminum oxide in the cabinet, so it should go on nice and easy for you. I'll get the housing out in the mail Monday. I think I have your address somewhere.
Todd

Great Todd! Thanks! Cutting the bolts off will save me a ton of aggravation, as Cordes suggested. This is why I bought the car from you - your support is invaluable for a newbie like me.

I wouldn't mind freshening up this turbo while it apart if I can, although I have no idea if there is a 'kit' to do that. It spins ok, not sure how freely it is suppose to spin though - never spun one before till now.

Derek

[ohlarikd]

Dropping head off to Steve Menegon next Tuesday. I guess I am lucky that I live close to him - finally a good reason to live in western NJ.

Nothing major this time around though, but a good port and valve job. Stock size valves. Conversion to roller cam as well. I'll discuss other options when I see him.

Again, not going crazy on this car, it's already snow-balling enough. My ORIGINAL intention was to just put on a catalytic converter so I could pass NJ inspection...

Derek

[ohlarikd]

The world's most time consuming 3" exhaust install thread continues. Stopped by Steve Menegon's shop today and dropped off the head. It should take a month, so there is going to be a little downtime... in the meantime, I am rebuilding the turbo for no good reason.

As everyone knows, Steve is a great guy, hung out there for over an hour. He obviously has a great amount of knowledge backed up by testing. He could talk for hours about every little aspect of almost any kind of head and component.

Derek

[DevoBuzz]

Are putting a 3inch exhaust on from the turbo all the way out to the exit? I'm thinking of doing the same but was wondering if the rod shifter would interfere? Will you have to bend the exhaust around the shifter housing?

[ohlarikd]

Are putting a 3inch exhaust on from the turbo all the way out to the exit? I'm thinking of doing the same but was wondering if the rod shifter would interfere? Will you have to bend the exhaust around the shifter housing?

Oh boy I hate to open up a whole can of worms. I have another thread about this whole shifter rod debacle.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44428

I ended up with a JRB kit for an Omni from FWD Performance. It is suppose to clear shifter rods, but I have not installed it yet so I cannot confirm. I am a long way off before that goes in at this point. I also have a 3" Swingvalve from 'Shadow' (Rob) that also will offset the downpipe a little bit.

Until I get the pipe in, I cannot guarantee fitment. But from what I've been told, every 3" pipe install needs tweaking, so I plan on going to a good exhaust shop for the install.

Derek

[DevoBuzz]

OK thanks for the link Derek. My turbo w/ 3" TU swingvalve should be coming in in the next couple weeks. I'll probably get the 3 inch exhaust from TU too, so we'll see which one of us is more successful! Hey where in NJ are you? I'm over in Flemington.

Ralph

[ohlarikd]

OK thanks for the link Derek. My turbo w/ 3" TU swingvalve should be coming in in the next couple weeks. I'll probably get the 3 inch exhaust from TU too, so we'll see which one of us is more successful! Hey where in NJ are you? I'm over in Flemington.

Ralph
Whoa! ME too - Flemington! Never thought I'd see another TM around here. What are driving? I think we could help each other out.

Derek

[DevoBuzz]

Derek sent you a pm...