My neighbor wants to race

[iTurbo]

So I was talking to my neighbor today and he says we should race. His '95 5.0L Mustang against my CSRT. He's actually a really nice no BS kinda guy and has helped me on a variety of my turbo mopar parking lot projects over the years. We've raced before with my older turbo mopars against his varous cars like Mustangs, an SHO etc...but he seems pretty confident that his Mustang has 400 HP because he raced a new GTO and was door to door with it the whole way. He also didn't seem to think the CSRT would be any problem for his Mustang.

For mods, his car has BBK shorty headers, dual exhaust w/X pipe, BBK intake, MSD ignition stuff, and some kind of simple piggyback-looking device made by Venom that looked like it was wired into the TPS and MAF sensors. My Caliber on the other hand has Mopar Stage I and that's it.

He was also showing me his twin turbo kit that he wants me to help him put on the car so I'm thinking a loss to a Caliber might be just the thing to help motivate him on that project.:nod:

[83Shelby]

I believe you're right!

[Dave]

Do it up... factory SN95 5.0 will usually run high 14's at best. He needs those mods to keep up stock. With the loose 8.8 rear end they usually have trouble launching so it should make for a decent race.

Get a video!

[Force Fed Mopar]

I think he'll beat you unless you go from a roll.

[iTurbo]

Don't know if I'll be able to get video, but this sure would be cool to play with.

http://www.modernperformance.com/gopro-video-camera-system-p-2005.html

[Force Fed Mopar]

Don't know if I'll be able to get video, but this sure would be cool to play with.

http://www.modernperformance.com/gopro-video-camera-system-p-2005.html

Pretty nice, I'm planning on getting a system like that also for mountain runs, track days etc. I've looked at the Sticky Pod mounts also.

http://www.stickypod.com/

[54inches]

A 95 should have a 4.6 IIRC.

You are going to have your hands full.

A stock one was mid to low 14s.

A blown mustang of similar vintage is a mid 12 to low 13s.

These are typical results, but may vary.

It really boils down to what yours has done.

Could be very close, but I bet he is REAL close to the 12s.

[iTurbo]

I just talked to him again, he saw me out in the parking lot doing the timing belt on my SL. He asked me again to race the Caliber today so it should be here pretty soon. I asked about his headers again, turns out they are not BBK but some kind of factory header. And it is a 5.0L with manual trans by the way. The twin turbo setup is not installed on his car yet. I have a hard time believing a '95 5.0L Mustang with exhaust and cold-air intake is anywhere near the 12s.

[thefitisgay]

quit talkin and run it... its not like youre goin for pinks

[rich tideswell]

A 95 should have a 4.6 IIRC.

1995 was the last year of the 5.0 in the fox platform Mustangs. 96 was the first year of the 4.6

[88_pacifica]

I think he's at best "probably" around low 14's and the fact he has a stick MIGHT help if he can't shift well. If he is a good driver and consistent, I think he'll probably have you by a car length in a quarter miles distance just because it's an RWD, some upgrades, and more aerodynamic. Even though 14's isn't "fast" by any means,

http://www.carforums.net/showthread.php?t=10251

In the link below go to "At the Track" and see what they did. Of course, that was a stocker and yours has the stage 1. I think it will all depend on the driver...

http://www.insideline.com/dodge/caliber/2008/full-test-2008-dodge-caliber-srt-4.html

[Directconnection]

With the loose 8.8 rear end they usually have trouble launching so it should make for a decent race.

Get a video!

"Loose" as in an open diff? All 5.0's I know of have a "posi" diff.

[54inches]

1995 was the last year of the 5.0 in the fox platform Mustangs. 96 was the first year of the 4.6

Gotcha, thanks, I could not remember.

I have seen a slightly modded 5.0 go 12s, so it may be improbable, but not impossible.

Can't wait to see the results. Good Luck.

[Force Fed Mopar]

5.0's are stout down low, if he hooks he'll have you.

[iTurbo]

OK, we finally raced tonight. Twice actually; first from a roll at about 20 MPH and then from a dig.

He finally calls me tonight after it got dark out and we head out to a highway out of town that is very wide, flat, and hardly ever has traffic. I asked if he wanted to go from a dig or a roll and he wants to go from a roll first because he's not sure about hooking up. So we line up at 15-20 MPH, I leave my car in 1st gear and wait for him to go first. As soon as he punches it he gets about 1/2 car on me and I proceed to absolutely destroy the Mustang. As soon as I shifted to second gear I'm running by and put many many car lengths between us by the time I get to 100 MPH and let off. I pulled over about 1/2 mile down the road and we both get out to talk and the first thing he says is, "OMG you kicked my ----ing ---!". He was totally shocked! I haven't raced many cars in my Caliber yet so I really wasn't sure what to expect either but I have to admit the CSRT was putting bus lengths on after I got into 3rd.

So I ask him if he wants to race again, this time from a dig. He is a little hesitant this time, but agrees to on the condition that I have to race him again after he gets the twin-turbo setup installed. So we line up again and I wait for him to go because I can't hear anything over his exhaust. I pretty much spun 1st gear hard and he gets out a whole car length ahead. After I get into 2nd and regain traction the CSRT runs by him effortlessly.

I didn't talk to him again after that because we both figured it was best to leave the area ASAP. I'm sure I'll talk to him tomorrow though. He probably can't wait to tear into his car now haha. I probably should have raced him in my SL as it would have been a lot closer but I think the SL could take it in it's current state too (TII, 3" exhaust, 17 psi etc..)

[Directconnection]

Gotcha, thanks, I could not remember.

I have seen a slightly modded 5.0 go 12s, so it may be improbable, but not impossible.

Can't wait to see the results. Good Luck.

As you can tell now from the results of the race post.... no lightly modded 5.0's go 12s. ;) I've seen supercharged and modified 5.0's go 12s.... but no lightly modded ones.

Now a '03 lightly modded Cobra.... (factory supercharged) 12s are easy with just a few mods. I have witnessed this :nod:

[bakes]

Or if someone is running the throttle bottle.

[88_pacifica]

As soon as he punches it he gets about 1/2 car on me and I proceed to absolutely destroy the Mustang. ....the CSRT runs by him effortlessly.

Sweet... I am surprised he was so far behind, but that is always a fun one to beat. Good kill...

[iTurbo]

Yeah he didn't see that coming at all. He took it pretty good though...I can't wait to race him again after the twin turbo setup is installed. I'm not sure how much power it will make or how long it will live though....he's doing it to the 150k mile original engine. He says he's just hoping it will live at 5-6 psi while he builds up another motor.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Nice. What do you have done to the Caliber?

[iTurbo]

Just Mopar Stage One and a set of NGK Iridium spark plugs. I get 7-8 psi in 1st gear and about 16 psi in 2nd thru 6th gears.

[contraption22]

Take it to the track.

[omnigoestohell]

Take it to the track.
__________________
Mike Marra - The "A-Rod" of the Turbo-Mopar Community
1986 Plymouth Horizon GLMF "The Contraption"
Best ET 10.61
Best MPH: 130
60hp Nitrous! Street legal! Single throttle body!


Mike, don't tell me this means you're having sex with Madonna now... ewwww..

[54inches]

As you can tell now from the results of the race post.... no lightly modded 5.0's go 12s. ;) I've seen supercharged and modified 5.0's go 12s.... but no lightly modded ones.

Now a '03 lightly modded Cobra.... (factory supercharged) 12s are easy with just a few mods. I have witnessed this :nod:

And of course you have witnessed EVERY Mustang in existence.

Thanks for adding nothing.

Congrats on the win bud!

[iTurbo]

Thanks! The closest track to me opens May 7th but is about 120 miles away. :( Hoping to get better motor mounts and the WOT box installed before then....and a lot more practice launching the car would help a lot. I'm really not even sure if I should shut the ESP off or not.

Last time I was at the track I was in my Omni and my best 60ft was 2.5 seconds. The starting line was covered in molten rubber and I still have globs of it stuck to my inner fenders. Hopefully they prep the track a little better next time.

[Keito]

I had a 92 GT with every bolt on available and could
only get 13.80's with drag radials.
My friend bought it, added Trick Flow heads and a cam and went 12.80's.
I remember when the SN95 came out, they could barely get 14's.
Mine had kinda a loose rear end, I would spin one wheel about
50% of the time with drag radials.
Street tires would always catch posi.
Funny I sold it and bought an SRT-4 and my first time to the track
went 13.82 with a catless downpipe.

[Vigo]

I drove a perfect, 36k CREAMPUFF 95 5.0/5spd mustang about 3 years ago..

And i stopped worrying about stockish 5.0 mustangs right then and there. 14s in that car woulda been a miracle.

Of course, i had already stopped worrying about the old ones long ago, after i raced a stockish 85 5.0 gt and beat it from 70-105 3 times in a row in my stock 3.3L dodge dynasty.

I used to think stock 4.6s 00-up might be kinda fast, until i raced a stock one in my modded 3.5L Intrepid and held him off til almost 80 mph.

I mean, stock 5.0s and 2-valve 4.6s arent SLOW... but by that logic neither is a stock dodge dynasty or a slightly modded dodge intrepid. :p

BUT, put really low gears and a tight posi and drag radials on a stock mustang and you can pwn a LOT of stuff from a stop. Also true of 4.0L jeep wranglers. :p

[Aries_Turbo]

And of course you have witnessed EVERY Mustang in existence.

i go to the track ALOT. stockish mustangs arent fast. period.

5.0L's when you get rid of the horrible stock heads, get a good headers and exhaust, intake manifold and cam, is a 12.5 sec car. then spray it into the 10's. thats a fairly common combo around here.

but stock, you are looking at high 14's/low 15's for anything from the 80's and 90s. when they put the PI 4.6 in them (260hpish) they were low 14 sec cars. now they are bloated pigs... all the gt500's ive seen at the track were running high 12's.

Nice kill BTW.:)

Brian

[1984rampage]

The sad thing is.. 12 Second cars are now being considered slow and 10's are the new 12's

[Aries_Turbo]

The sad thing is.. 12 Second cars are now being considered slow and 10's are the new 12's

a greater understanding of EFI by the typical DIY person has alot to do with it.

nothing unleashes the performance and/or reliability of a vehicle like being able to precisely tune the fuel mixture and timing advance for all conditions.

Brian

[t3rse]

a greater understanding of EFI by the typical DIY person has alot to do with it.

nothing unleashes the performance and/or reliability of a vehicle like being able to precisely tune the fuel mixture and timing advance for all conditions.

Brian

I disagree. One guy got it right and thanks to the internet, every ------- with a computer can copy it. Don't get me wrong, the average "tuner" knows a lot more than was common 5 years ago even, but most people still don't really know what they are doing. They rely on widebands that may or may not be accurate and copy someone else's timing map that made good numbers on a dyno.

[Aries_Turbo]

i didnt say "somewhat of an understanding of EFI by hacks"

look at DIY efi 10 years ago. most of the time it was a cobblejob of boxes attached to a stock ecu and cars blew up all the time.

we were still using mechanical means to raise fuel pressure for the most part and the cars were slower and less reliable.

there will always be dumbasses and hacks. but the EFi industry is in a MUCH better place than it was 10 years ago. ecu's are cracked in a snap, standalones are easier and more powerful, megasquirt is in its 3rd iteration (and boy is the MS3 AWESOME), and the cars are more reliable if someone competent is at the helm.

Brian

[Directconnection]

i go to the track ALOT. stockish mustangs arent fast. period.

Brian

Guess I'm not the only one who agrees...

My friend(s) have mildly modified 5.0s..... I've raced 5.0s (and a 4.6) and have seen MANY run at the track and the only way they run 12s or better is with a procharger or on the bottle.

I'm not shatting on 5.0s.... I think they're kinda cool for what they are (small car with rwd and a v-8) but they are far from powerhouses.

If a MILDLY modded *factory supercharged* 2003 Cobra runs 12s, how the fawk is a N/A 302 in stock trim with just boltons going to run the same?

I have yet another friend.... all his cousins race at NED. One is a GM guy (small block Vega running low 11s) another runs a small block Duster, and the 3rd runs a gutted and modded 5.0 fox body mustang and squeeks 12s.

There's my experiences :thumb:

[t3rse]

i didnt say "somewhat of an understanding of EFI by hacks"

look at DIY efi 10 years ago. most of the time it was a cobblejob of boxes attached to a stock ecu and cars blew up all the time.

we were still using mechanical means to raise fuel pressure for the most part and the cars were slower and less reliable.

there will always be dumbasses and hacks. but the EFi industry is in a MUCH better place than it was 10 years ago. ecu's are cracked in a snap, standalones are easier and more powerful, megasquirt is in its 3rd iteration (and boy is the MS3 AWESOME), and the cars are more reliable if someone competent is at the helm.

Brian

You stated, "a greater understanding of EFI by the typical DIY person has alot to do with it." Above you are arguing for technology and common knowledge as opposed to "a greater undestading...by the typical DIY person."

I totally agree that the EFI industry is in a better place. I still think most people that use these products don't really know what they are doing. Thanks to the internet, there is easy instruction to be had for said products, and even for rescaling stock tables. I'm not saying that general users don't possess more knowledge than those of 10 years ago, as even though a person might know nothing about programming or assembling a MS unit, it still takes some intellect to install, tune, and debug issues when they will inevitably arise.

As for the 5.0: Just spend some time at the track and you will experience ample amounts of Mustang fail.

[Vigo]

I think the people that are going out of their way to do DIY EFI are by far in a better spot today then 10 years ago. I think it has more to do with hardware than with the understanding of internal combustion engine science. So in that way i think Brian is right.

But, in my opinion the average car person doesnt know much more about how car engines "work" (i.e. heat, flow, cams, etc) then they did back in 2000. Now, though, people with very little knowledge can buy something and have their hand held on the internet until it works, with a pretty decent chance of success, which still doesnt make them knowledgeable, really. I dont consider those to be the people Brian is talking about, though. Those are the people that are only doing it because its been repeatedly proven to work, not because they want to challenge themselves or build something for the sake of building something.

Now, one could argue that i resemble some facets of the 2nd paragraph.. but if you did i would only pester you to spend time teaching me things, so watch yourself.:evil: