TBI Header

[ottawa rogue]

I've heard this mentioned a few times, what's the advantage to one?
i've got one sitting in the garage, but it looks like this would put the turbo awfully close to the rack.

[cordes]

It has the individual runners and they are about equal length. They out flow the stock log by a tremendous margin too.

[Whorse]

What's involved in custom fitting our turbos to one? I can pick one up at a junkyard, but might be hard to mount my VNT to.

[cordes]

You need to weld on a flange for the turbo. Also, the oil feed line will be different, and I believe that it drops the level of the turbo so that you must run a oil return into the oil pan itself.

[Will Martin]

Not hard to bolt a VNT to it.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/719000-719999/719818_29_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/719000-719999/719818_42_full.jpg

See the swingvalve? You have to get it cut and rewelded to face downwards a bit. With my T3/T4, the custom swingvalve barely made it off the rack.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/719000-719999/719818_134_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/719000-719999/719818_135_full.jpg

[Whorse]

Wait is that unmodified and the VNT fits? Do you need to cut the SV on the VNT or is that with the hybrid?

Hmmm....

[turbovanman²]

Will, I did'nt realize you went T3 flange and used the FM elbow?

[Rattlesnake]

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/491000-491999/491208_103.jpg

[cordes]

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/491000-491999/491208_103.jpg


I would like to see a bigger pic of that if you have one.

[Rattlesnake]

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/491000-491999/491208_88.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/491000-491999/491208_90.jpgThat is all I can get for you, there is something wrong with cardomain.

[cordes]

That is great thanks!

[Will Martin]

Will, I did'nt realize you went T3 flange and used the FM elbow?

No, that's the VNT28 bolted up to the TBI header. The header is already modified (cut and welded with proper angle) with the Chrysler/Dodge flange on it. :thumb: I was gonna go this route when I was gonna use the VNT28, but couldn't get a custom swing valve fabbed up. My ultimate goal was to use this header with the S60 VNT I had on there; I'm sure it would've been a real blast then! But with my T3/T4, it gets that thing spooled real quickly! :nod:

[turbovanman²]

Nice Will, :amen:

I might go that route also, just maybe, lol!

[Will Martin]

I'll tell you what. Long ago, I remember a guy on the Shelby Dodge mailing list that had a GLH. I believe he had a S60 turbo, TBI header, can't remember the head (G or swirl), 3" exhaust, and other goodies. With changing to the TBI header, he could now roast the tires from a roll in 3rd, and had a video of him racing his gf in her modified Camaro, pulling away from her on the freeway like nothing. This was when the TBI header was first "introduced" and I was sold. Not to knock anyone's theories or test or whatever, but I like it on my car. With the Steve Menegon head and this header, I actually think my T3/T4 is over powered! lol

[turbovanman²]

I'll tell you what. Long ago, I remember a guy on the Shelby Dodge mailing list that had a GLH. I believe he had a S60 turbo, TBI header, can't remember the head (G or swirl), 3" exhaust, and other goodies. With changing to the TBI header, he could now roast the tires from a roll in 3rd, and had a video of him racing his gf in her modified Camaro, pulling away from her on the freeway like nothing. This was when the TBI header was first "introduced" and I was sold. Not to knock anyone's theories or test or whatever, but I like it on my car. With the Steve Menegon head and this header, I actually think my T3/T4 is over powered! lol

Nice. I guess I should stop spending money on this engine and wait for my TIII, :thumb:

[Will Martin]

Well, IMHO you already have the makings of a 12 second van, just need to get everything in sync. lol

I'm STILL waiting on my TIII engine, wiring harness and ECU that I paid for on March 13th.....

[Whorse]

So does that mean you'll have that TBI header kicking around?

[Will Martin]

So does that mean you'll have that TBI header kicking around?

Ha-ha! Naw man, that's on my GLH now. It's one of the reasons why I can get that 2.2 flyin' so fast! ;)
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/719000-719999/719818_128_full.jpg

[ottawa rogue]

Cool, thanks for the replies.
looks like if i want to run one of these, it's gonna take some exhaust work, and it looks awful close to the rack

[puppet]

Really stupid question for those that have done this.
Was turning the turbo over considered? That would put the compressor housing on the passenger side and the exhaust would be closer to the stock location. Only real biggie would be fabricating a new swing valve section ... eliminating the internal WG for an external set up like Rattlesnakes. Everything else can be clocked to the right position though. ... or does the up angle put it even closer to the firewall?

Edit: NM .. I see running the intake would be a real pita.

[Will Martin]

Not a stupid question at all. Yes, you have to turn the compressor housing. The way mine was made it was a perfect fit, any different angles and there would've been problems. I have the belt off on my ps as I don't use it anyway, so using the TBI header is not a problem for me. Basically, it puts the turbo over to the pass side and downwards, so much so that you could feasibly change the turbo from under the car. You'd have enough room for a WG. If I can do this in an L-body, it can be done in any other car! :thumb:

[puppet]

Not a stupid question at all. Yes, you have to turn the compressor housing. The way mine was made it was a perfect fit, any different angles and there would've been problems. I have the belt off on my ps as I don't use it anyway, so using the TBI header is not a problem for me. Basically, it puts the turbo over to the pass side and downwards, so much so that you could feasibly change the turbo from under the car. You'd have enough room for a WG. If I can do this in an L-body, it can be done in any other car! :thumb:Actually my stupid idea meant flipping the turbo end for end.
With no PS a guy might be able to run the intake pipes on that side. A bit of work either way though. Your's looks great BTW.

I'll bet these manifold's really help the boost come on sooner with their divided runners.

[SwiftTech]

Really stupid question for those that have done this.
Was turning the turbo over considered? That would put the compressor housing on the passenger side and the exhaust would be closer to the stock location. Only real biggie would be fabricating a new swing valve section ... eliminating the internal WG for an external set up like Rattlesnakes. Everything else can be clocked to the right position though. ... or does the up angle put it even closer to the firewall?

Edit: NM .. I see running the intake would be a real pita.

your thinking right along what i was thinking. there is plenty of roomfor the turbo, but it might get tight for the plumbing. i have a picture of mine mocked up at home i'l have to post up.

[turbovanman²]

Well, IMHO you already have the makings of a 12 second van, just need to get everything in sync. lol

I'm STILL waiting on my TIII engine, wiring harness and ECU that I paid for on March 13th.....

Yeah, your right, I do, and to install another header is well, not going to happen, I still have to fix my tranny, :(


DOH! :mad:

[puppet]

your thinking right along what i was thinking. there is plenty of roomfor the turbo, but it might get tight for the plumbing. i have a picture of mine mocked up at home i'l have to post up.
Would like to see it SwiftTech.

[cordes]

If I can do this in an L-body, it can be done in any other car! :thumb:

Word on the street has it that the fire wall must be adjusted ever so slightly with a large whacking device to make it fit an L. Did you have to do that? I have been kicking around the idea of a TBI header for a while now, but I have not really wanted to deal with that close of a tolerance issue.

[Will Martin]

Word on the street has it that the fire wall must be adjusted ever so slightly with a large whacking device to make it fit an L. Did you have to do that? I have been kicking around the idea of a TBI header for a while now, but I have not really wanted to deal with that close of a tolerance issue.

No sir, I did not. I try to listen what people have to say, and improve upon it, if I can. My set up (header and swingvalve) was previously on Ohio Rob's or Russ Jerome's car, can't remember, but I bought it from Big PSI (Chuck). It was already measured cut and welded properly. Now my big compressor housing is about one millionth of an inch from the firewall, but it does fit. lol Now if you feel as though you want to be The Mighty Thor and whack it a couple of times......:banghead: :eyebrows:

[contraption22]

After using a TBI header for MANY years... I can tell you quite sincerely that I am now a VERY happy ownder of a TU Hybrid header.

[Will Martin]

After using a TBI header for MANY years... I can tell you quite sincerely that I am now a VERY happy ownder of a TU Hybrid header.

Ha-ha! After getting that TBI header to fit, I can see the many benefits of using a TU header. Just the placement of the turbo alone would make it worth while.

[Whorse]

Is the TU header a true header or just a log with really good flow?

[Will Martin]

Is the TU header a true header or just a log with really good flow?

Both! :nod:

[Whorse]

Any ideas on flow #s vs TBI header vs stock?

[Will Martin]

Aw man, you're opening a BIG can of worms now. lol There was a huge debate over this on the other site a while back. Do a search and you'll find it. The TBI header did out flow them all, I think.

[Whorse]

That was my thought. By looking at it, especially with a mild port, the TBI header just seems to have a pretty ideal flow path, and it's not too hard to come by, just some fabrication.

I do recall some discussion of TBI headers vs. ported exhaust, and I think the end result was that without a ported head you're not gaining a heck of a lot with one or the other.

Anyhow, time to close the lid on the can of worms and think more about how to custom fab the TBI header to work well with the turbo in a stock location. Would need some kind of nice intermediate pipe to mate the two while maintaining consistency with the output of the headers...

[turbovanman²]

I seem to remember that no numbers/comparisons were ever posted.

Mike, did you just change the header or? and did you notice any difference in performance?

[SwiftTech]

5 min of searching on td.com will find the flow #'s. see the following post
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/showpost.php?p=836395&postcount=59

[Will Martin]

5 min of searching on td.com will find the flow #'s. see the following post
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/showpost.php?p=836395&postcount=59

Thanks Luke, that was the post I was refering to in my previous statement. Simon is getting old and his memory is fading fast! :drum: :eek: :focus:
:lol:

[turbovanman²]

Thanks Luke, that was the post I was refering to in my previous statement. Simon is getting old and his memory is fading fast! :drum: :eek: :focus:
:lol:

Hahahhaa, yeah, its going. I could have sworn those numbers never got posted. Oh well. I am suprised at how the ported stocker is only 3%, I wouldn't touch it for 3%, waste of time.

[Will Martin]

Hahahhaa, yeah, its going. I could have sworn those numbers never got posted. Oh well. I am suprised at how the ported stocker is only 3%, I wouldn't touch it for 3%, waste of time.


I'm just messing with ya! :thumb:

Yeah, I remember that thread caused all kinds of problems.

My screwed up theory is this; anything is better than running the stocker, period. I would love to go with the TU header, but I'd already bought my TBI set up so I used that. I don't really know how well my TBI header is over any other one, but I like the way my car drives now, and that's like a freakin' rocket. :bolt:

[turbovanman²]

I'm just messing with ya! :thumb:

Yeah, I remember that thread caused all kinds of problems.

My screwed up theory is this; anything is better than running the stocker, period. I would love to go with the TU header, but I'd already bought my TBI set up so I used that. I don't really know how well my TBI header is over any other one, but I like the way my car drives now, and that's like a freakin' rocket. :bolt:

All I have to say is put your turbo where your mouth is and run it a Mission for crying out loud, :thumb:

[Will Martin]

All I have to say is put your turbo where your mouth is and run it a Mission for crying out loud, :thumb:

I can't, I don't have my freakin' TU cal! :mad: :censored: :banghead: :faint: If I try to run the TIV computer, it starts to act crazy and the computer pulls back timing. You can tell because at first the car will drive fine. If I turn up the boost to about 25psi+, it runs funny and will start to buck and cut out. Last time I drove it hard, I had my neighbor (he has a turbo Civic) in my car. He was screaming in Chinese-I didn't know what the hell he was saying, all I know is when we stopped he looked at his car and said "I don't think I want to drive my car anymore, your car is WAY faster than mine!" lol

[turbovanman²]

Hahaahhhaa, thats soooooooooo funny, :thumb:

[shadow88]

Give me a week or 2 and I'll have the shadow on a dyno to get wheel hp and torque numbers. Strange how the tbi manifold is 27% better than stock and my intake's least restriction is 26.68% better than stock.

Alot of measurments need to be tweaked to get it to fit without calibrating the knockometer to a large extent. Also, the swingvalve points almost directly at the steering rack. custom D.I.Y. swingvalve needed.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/th_swingvavle.jpg (http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/swingvavle.jpg)

Click on the picture for a bigger version.

Wish I remembered to bring the camera to work for a mock-up picture.:(

It's a fair bit of work, and I'll post the dyno gains where I can get the car ready.

[Will Martin]

Give me a week or 2 and I'll have the shadow on a dyno to get wheel hp and torque numbers. Strange how the tbi manifold is 27% better than stock and my intake's least restriction is 26.68% better than stock.

Alot of measurments need to be tweaked to get it to fit without calibrating the knockometer to a large extent. Also, the swingvalve points almost directly at the steering rack. custom D.I.Y. swingvalve needed.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/th_swingvavle.jpg (http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/swingvavle.jpg)

Click on the picture for a bigger version.

Wish I remembered to bring the camera to work for a mock-up picture.:(

It's a fair bit of work, and I'll post the dyno gains where I can get the car ready.

Looks good! Question, is that a stock T2 turbo you're running? If so, that baby should be spooled in no time.

[SwiftTech]

here is one pic of the turbo flipped. There are a couple more pics in my gallery too. There is tons of room between the turbo and intake. Don't know about ps pump clearance though.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/pdr_1489.jpg

[shadow88]

Yup, stocker still on there. Plans are to make a dyno pull or 2 and get the a/f mixture correct. THEN order the apropriate sized turbo for the application. possibly a super 60, maybe a hybrid. Elapsed time will tell.:)



^^^ no problem clearing p/s at all with the turbo in it's normal position.

[mech1nxh]

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/491000-491999/491208_103.jpg

very nice!!.....
if I may ask , where on the downpipe did you plumb the w/g exhaust back in??

THX..

[My96z]

Would you be able to retain a 3" TU SV without molesting it and run a TBI header?


Jeff

[shadow88]

I haven't seen that swingvalve you speak of, but I would have to assume ANY swingvalve would require a good amount of cutting / welding.

With the stock swingvavle installed the exhaust (flange) points almost directly straight down into the steering rack. Thant's why you need to re-work it.

You may notice in my pics I used a 2 1/2 inch elbow for use in pipe fitting like sprinkler systems / gas lines type of thing. Then 2 1/2 inch flange welded onto that.

[SwiftTech]

Would you be able to retain a 3" TU SV without molesting it and run a TBI header?


Jeff

no it would have to be modified.

[Ground Rat]

How do I weld on the TBI with a MIG? Do you just heat it up with a torch until it glows first?

*Edit - just saw other thread. :yuck:

[shadow88]

I suppose it may as well go here. Has everyone with a tbi header used something to support the weight of the turbo? I only asked because I looked at Warren's cool looking manifold and it uses links to support the weight.

At this time I have nothing supporting the turbo, but has anyone else used a support backet of some kind?? pics would be cool too. thanks:D

[Chris Faulk]

Nice Will, :amen:

I might go that route also, just maybe, lol!

TBI header will fit in the van no problemo!

[Chris Faulk]

After using a TBI header for MANY years... I can tell you quite sincerely that I am now a VERY happy ownder of a TU Hybrid header.

Amen there Mike!