Highest Quality Forged Pistons & Billet Rods for a 2.2 N/A

[135sohc]

Bottom line goal is to spin the engine to 7500+ rpms and not have it come apart.

My short list of requirements for both pistons and rods. (full floating pin)

100% American sourced and made.
Quiet in operation.
no oddball/mfg specific components. IE wiseco special rings ect.


price isnt a concern, I want to do it once and get it right the first time around.

right now I'm leaning towards oliver rods and diamond pistons, but that could change.

[looneytuner]

Pm sent.

["Top Fuel" Bender]

Definetly not the cheapest but I love my Pauter Chromoly rods :amen:
12+ years without an issue
brother-in-law had one pull the wrist pin out the piston, go thru the block and only deflected .010"

[Ondonti]

Well, your goals are 7500 rpms so I don't think you really need remotely close to top dollar. The American made part probably forces top dollar though.

Real Carillo or pauter or oliver or a few other brands out there. THey are all going to be way beyond your needs though.

I would run the cheapest rods with arp fasteners. 7500+ is vague though. YOu need to knwo exactly how many rpms you will spin if you are worried about rods lasting. One issue for you us that the upgraded rods will probably be heavier then you need. You need a strong big end and fasteners, not a huge thick rod. Yes, many aftermarket rods are lighter then the TII rods, but I would prefer a lighter steel rod that has less bulk since you don't need to handle 100-200hp/cylinder on your rods. No No No on aluminum rods.

For pistons...do you want a nice high compression low weight piston or a big beefy turbo piston?

I would want a lightweight slipper style piston with minimal skirt/bulk. I would research what american companys Honda guys are using for their 10 second n/a cars. I bet they have some great piston ideas worked out, though you will not be reving as high. Hondas often have very low rod ratios so they will have similar side loading of pistons. This way you can avoid people here giving you bad advice about piston design when they have never actually built a crazy n/a 2.2 before. Diamond does sound like a company that Hondas would use.

Of course if you want to be able to throw a 200 shot of nitrous on the car, then heavier rods and turbo type pistons (even high compression turbo pistons) will be great.

What compression and fuel octane do you want to use?

BTW, even though they look beefy, Pauter rods for the 3.0 are 50 grams lighter then stock. Ive seen a lot of people complain pauter are heavy but I guess that is not necessarily true. Maybe Oliver etc sell lighter rods though.

[135sohc]

7500 rpm is just the beginning... :evil:

I know the American made part will increase the price by a healthy margin but buying American is more of a personal thing with me and something most here don't get since cheapness no matter what the cost... wins out for 9 out of 10 here. I dont want this turning into a political debate so I'll end that there.

Beefy turbo grade piston for sure. Take a stock 2.2 n/a piston and replicate it with a forged, floating pin equivelent. Thats all I'm looking for, not to reinvent the wheel.


Of course if you want to be able to throw a 200 shot of nitrous on the car, then heavier rods and turbo type pistons (even high compression turbo pistons) will be great.

Now your thinking the right way. :nod:

Looking at around 9.5:1 with keeping it friendly for 87 octane. Theres a gentleman on another forum I frequent who's been doing cylinder head porting longer than most here have been alive. He's got some interesting ideas on how to bump the compression without knock, while keeping it 87/89 octane happy.

[turbovanman²]

I have a nice set of Forged flat top American made .020 JE's, $250 plus shipping, :D

[135sohc]

I saw those already :nod:

Not sure yet what size I'll be needing though. would like to stay standard bore if possible.

[Ondonti]

reasons for standard bore? I don't think cylinder strength is going to be your biggest worry unless you really plan on hitting a huge nitrous kit sometime in the future. Even then, 400whp on a 200 shot should not be a problem on an overbored cylinder......UNless you hit too early in the RPMS
With FWD I think a progressive controller would be necessary anyways on a huge shot.

And I believe if you want to be nitrous friendly you will need to run a ring gap larger then the turbo guys in the same HP area you are going after.

I would be going with the biggest bore I could get in an n/a application.

Valvetrain plans for the 7500+rpm stuff? Higher rpms willl make the non USA rods a bad idea anyways. 8000+ in a 2.2 would be great but nobody seems to remember how to pull that off these days even though they were doing it in the 80's

[135sohc]

Leaving some room for the future should it be needed. I've got and plan to use the MP & pro-gram engineering main caps on the bottom end and with all of the work necessary to fit them to the block I dont want to hog everything out to max size and then end up with a damaged cylinder thats going to require getting a new block and starting from scratch.

As for nitrous and all that other fun stuff in the bottle. I'm not looking to build something thats going to take on a turbocharged 2.5 @ 20+ psi and expect it to win. Just putting together an extremely overbuilt engine for my D.D that when the urge demands it I can pound on it mercessly like a sledge hammer to an anvil and having lots of room for error.

valvetrain will be a +1 swirl head, 2.4 lifters ect.

[Ondonti]

then my question is if the main caps are worth it. Mains seem to be more of a failing point on the big turbo cars recently, not from simply rpms. and the mains problem has been shown to take a long time to develop. Like a couple seasons of 400+hp 1/4 runs.

You can have the mains, or a large overbore and junk the block when you need another one. IMO new pistons are always more expensive then a block unless the block is no longer available at junkyards. Plus you might only have to replace 1 pistons in a piston failure. If you get a common piston then that would be pretty easy.

[rx2mazda]

then my question is if the main caps are worth it. Mains seem to be more of a failing point on the big turbo cars recently, not from simply rpms. and the mains problem has been shown to take a long time to develop. Like a couple seasons of 400+hp 1/4 runs.

You can have the mains, or a large overbore and junk the block when you need another one. IMO new pistons are always more expensive then a block unless the block is no longer available at junkyards. Plus you might only have to replace 1 pistons in a piston failure. If you get a common piston then that would be pretty easy.

+1:nod:

[contraption22]

To me it makes more sense to go .020 than to try and get by with standard bores. Good blocks are getting harder to find around here anyway, and having to limit your search to one with good standard bores, which weren't all that precise from the factory anyway (ever wonder why late turbo 8v pistons had 4 different "standard" diameters available?), is really handicapping yourself. Then if you build this badass motor and one day your block cracks for no apparent reason (which has happened to me) and you MUST find another standard bore block, or buy all new pistons.

[Aries_Turbo]

if its a N/A block with a 8V head, no turbo and no nitrous, beam polished/shot peened LW rods with good bolts would rev just fine.

neons scream to 8000+ with similar rods to our stock LW ones.

light pistons are suggested though.

Brian

[jl93sundance]

will you even be making power at anything about 6500 rpms with an n/a 8 valve without nitrous?

[black86glhs]

I agree with the right pistons and rods. However, have the whole assembly balanced. Even the best components with good clearances won't last as long if out of balance at 7K+ rpm.

[contraption22]

will you even be making power at anything about 6500 rpms with an n/a 8 valve without nitrous?

Using nitrous won't change the natural powerband of the engine.

[jl93sundance]

Using nitrous won't change the natural powerband of the engine.

ok that makes sense now that I thought about.....so will he even be making power at the rpms he wants to rev to?

[contraption22]

ok that makes sense now that I thought about.....so will he even be making power at the rpms he wants to rev to?

He'll be making power.... but will he be making as much power as he would make between 5000 and 6000 rpm? I dunno.

[jl93sundance]

He'll be making power.... but will he be making as much power as he would make between 5000 and 6000 rpm? I dunno.

thats what I'm trying to get at...is there even a point to rev that high?

[135sohc]

thats what I'm trying to get at...is there even a point to rev that high?

Is there a point to most anything we do wasting money on these cars ? :eyebrows:

[contraption22]

Is there a point to most anything we do wasting money on these cars ? :eyebrows:

Yup. To have fun and go fast.

Revving as high as you want to go may result in neither.

[Aries_Turbo]

what realistic power level are you looking to make?

brian

[135sohc]

140-150 hp, similar torque numbers. Thats at the crank, not WHP.

I know damn well its doable staying n/a and without resorting to chemical power adders. just that few have done it in recent history so it seems to be a forgotten part of 2.2 history.

[135sohc]

Yup. To have fun and go fast.

and taking a different approach seems to have stirred up quite a bees nest among some here.

[Aries_Turbo]

140-150 hp, similar torque numbers. Thats at the crank, not WHP.

I know damn well its doable staying n/a and without resorting to chemical power adders. just that few have done it in recent history so it seems to be a forgotten part of 2.2 history.

im sure thats doable but you sure dont need 4 bolt mains, 500$ rods and 500$ pistons to accomplish that goal. you could do that on a stock lightweight non-commonblock bottom end with flat top pistons, arp rod bolts and a good ported head.

i sure hope you dont waste all those high dollar parts on something as simple as what you are looking to build.

hell, a stock DOHC 2.0L or 2.4L makes those numbers out of the box.

Brian

[contraption22]

and taking a different approach seems to have stirred up quite a bees nest among some here.

Nah I don't think so. I think your power goals are very realistic. Just gonna take some compression, some cam, good head (thats what she said), good carb and intake manifold (or custom EFI setup).

I just don't think you are gonna want or need to spin it that high to get it.

[cdavis]

The last time I dynoed my setup it put down 115 hp and 130 trq to the wheels. That was my old setup. Stock bottom end, 9.3 CR, 767 cam, ported 445 head, dual 45 DCOE webers. Ran a best of 15.4. The current setup is Mechart (old direct connection) rods, Ross pistons, 10.6 CR, comp 260 cam, ported swirl head with +1 valves, and same webers. Haven't dynoed new setup yet. I think you can get 140 at the crank fairly easy. I wasn't far. These engines need a lot of cam to make power n/a.

[contraption22]

The last time I dynoed my setup it put down 115 hp and 130 trq to the wheels. That was my old setup. Stock bottom end, 9.3 CR, 767 cam, ported 445 head, dual 45 DCOE webers. Ran a best of 15.4. The current setup is Mechart (old direct connection) rods, Ross pistons, 10.6 CR, comp 260 cam, ported swirl head with +1 valves, and same webers. Haven't dynoed new setup yet. I think you can get 140 at the crank fairly easy. I wasn't far. These engines need a lot of cam to make power n/a.

At what rpm was your power peak?

[cdavis]

At what rpm was your power peak?

5400 rpm.

I'll see if I can find my dyno sheet and post it. It had a very broad torque curve.