View Full Version : Chevy X-11 thread
blk86trbo
02-09-2010, 03:46 PM
GOOD GOD!!! What is it with TM and X-11s?? I've got an 81 X-11 waiting to accept the AWD from the 90 Pont 6000SE parked in front of it!!
Whatever it is, it must be the same strain of disease! Likely contracted in the early to mid 80s!;)
Mike
Had a burnt orange 81 X-11, a maroon 82, and a tan 82...the tan one was really clean and can be seen on the last page of this link http://community-2.webtv.net/blk86trbo/Turbona/page3.html
Found a blue one in a yard once with the swing out back windows that are controlled by a knob in the ceiling...have you ever seen that option? Definately cool...I made sure to snag those parts :)
PBODY
02-09-2010, 04:20 PM
Didn't the FWD X bodies have like 12 recalls before the dealership ever got them off the trucks when they were new?
The closest thing I had was a 2.8 (non-HO) 4 speed Citation in high school as a beater. The rack was so bad it was impossible to steer.
Dad had the poor version of the X-11 the XS Citation. Sold it on his car lot to a girl who had a rusted out X-11. She loved the X bodies.
I did see someone on line who had a really clean Pontiac Phoenix coupe with a 2.8 HO and manual trans. I thought that was pretty cool.
blk86trbo
02-09-2010, 05:11 PM
Didn't the FWD X bodies have like 12 recalls before the dealership ever got them off the trucks when they were new?
The closest thing I had was a 2.8 (non-HO) 4 speed Citation in high school as a beater. The rack was so bad it was impossible to steer.
Dad had the poor version of the X-11 the XS Citation. Sold it on his car lot to a girl who had a rusted out X-11. She loved the X bodies.
I did see someone on line who had a really clean Pontiac Phoenix coupe with a 2.8 HO and manual trans. I thought that was pretty cool.
Yeah the X line had issues...fortunately the examples I owned were fairly decent. My Father also had a 2 door 4 speed 2.8 non-HO, it was blue...plus two different 4-door models with the Iron Duke. And I do remember the XS, a local guy had one.
I think the "performance" model for the Pontiac Phoenix with the HO engine was called an SJ? I've only seen one in person, and I'm pretty sure it came from the factory with a standard steel hood.
PBODY
02-09-2010, 05:21 PM
Check out whats behind it.
http://image.hotrod.com/f/9256957/hrdp_0704_01_z+GM_performance_division+citation_X1 1.jpg
Had a burnt orange 81 X-11, a maroon 82, and a tan 82...the tan one was really clean and can be seen on the last page of this link http://community-2.webtv.net/blk86trbo/Turbona/page3.html
I had a silver 81 X (4-speed) as my second car, but flight tested it in AZ... Never try to drive 30+ hours straight with no A/C or Heater in the summer time (or ever really)... the one I have currently is White (auto), and a bit rusty... A bit surprising as it came from OR.
Found a blue one in a yard once with the swing out back windows that are controlled by a knob in the ceiling...have you ever seen that option? Definitely cool...I made sure to snag those parts :)
I've only seen them on one other X-Body, and it was the funkiest/rarest X-11 I've ever seen. It was a 82 or 83 (IIRC) and was from Mexico!! It had metric gauges and was maroon in color, I got the hood off it, and the gauges, but that's all, too bad too, it was in really good shape! I suspect that it was there due to Smog issues. It was kind of weird in that it had a cut switch for setting the timing, or at least that's what I suspected it was for, I don't read Spanish! I still have what's left of the hood, just couldn't throw it away!
Mike
I think the "performance" model for the Pontiac Phoenix with the HO engine was called an SJ? I've only seen one in person, and I'm pretty sure it came from the factory with a standard steel hood.
Right on all counts!
Mike
black86glhs
02-09-2010, 05:40 PM
Yeah the X line had issues...fortunately the examples I owned were fairly decent. My Father also had a 2 door 4 speed 2.8 non-HO, it was blue...plus two different 4-door models with the Iron Duke. And I do remember the XS, a local guy had one.
I think the "performance" model for the Pontiac Phoenix with the HO engine was called an SJ? I've only seen one in person, and I'm pretty sure it came from the factory with a standard steel hood.Yeah, the SJ was Pontiac's sporty version, Paul. My dad had an 80 Phoenix 4cyl 4spd. I liked the interior a lot on it. That thing ran really good. They did have a lot of recalls, but both of mine were excellent cars. I used to get 30 MPG with the auto and 32 mpg with the 4spd on the highway. My dads Pontiac got in the upper 30's on the highway.
SpoolinGLH
02-09-2010, 05:45 PM
My dad put a 3.8 SC Series II in a X-11.... That thing was a beast!!!! I need to find those pictures...
bradp
02-09-2010, 05:47 PM
I rebuilt and engine in an 83 X-11 that had swing out windows controlled from the front on levers, pretty cool. Here are the 2 I owned the silver one is the same on Mike had too. The interior & engine shot is the Silver one that was an early HO 81 car as it had the 6500 rpm redline and oil dipstick on the far end of engine.
blk86trbo
02-09-2010, 06:03 PM
Neat pics and stories!
How about those V-8 FWD X-11's? Apparently the engine cradle on the front of an X-11 is the same setup as the engine cradle on the back of a Fiero...and there are companies that make kits to drop the FWD V-8 Cadillac motor in the back of a Fiero, so...
PBODY
02-09-2010, 06:05 PM
Yes I've seen the V8 Caddy swap. That is nuts.
blk86trbo
02-09-2010, 06:15 PM
Yes I've seen the V8 Caddy swap. That is nuts.
Right on! Here's a clean swap...makes me really miss the ones I've owned! http://thebaron.110mb.com/v8citation/
black86glhs
02-09-2010, 06:21 PM
The 84-88 Olds Ciera got the 3.8 V6. The X and A bodies are virtually identical frame wise. So the engine mounts are easy to get to put a 3.8 and 4T60 into the Citation. Heck the 84 & 85 cars got the 4sp auto as an option.
raccoon
02-09-2010, 06:22 PM
the fact remains that the K car pwnt the X car.
black86glhs
02-09-2010, 06:39 PM
Only because all of the tards who bought a car that had no balls to it...aka...the K car.....LOL.
raccoon
02-09-2010, 06:45 PM
its really Chrysler fault for just keeping with he same idea for so long.
thefitisgay
02-09-2010, 07:31 PM
those things looks like a nightmare to work on...
86Shelby
02-09-2010, 07:50 PM
I don't know what to think of that swap. Flippin performance lacking engine.
I rebuilt and engine in an 83 X-11 that had swing out windows controlled from the front on levers, pretty cool. Here are the 2 I owned the silver one is the same on Mike had too. The interior & engine shot is the Silver one that was an early HO 81 car as it had the 6500 rpm redline and oil dipstick on the far end of engine.
I still have the steering wheel, instrument cluster,rear spoiler, wheels, and console from that silver car!!:D
Mike
PS Brad, clean that hair off your scanner!!;)
blk86trbo
02-09-2010, 10:18 PM
PS Brad, clean that hair off your scanner!!;)
LOL :eek:
Oh I almost forgot...last time I was at the yard, they actually had a 4-door Citation II. It had all 4 factory mud flaps with the word "Citiation" embossed in white, styled exactly like the emblem. Probably quite common back in the day, but I'd imagine it would be difficult to find a complete set nowadays.
black86glhs
02-09-2010, 10:21 PM
those things looks like a nightmare to work on...Not any harder than anything else out there. I did it for 10 yrs.:mad:
I still have the steering wheel, instrument cluster,rear spoiler, wheels, and console from that silver car!!:D
Mike
PS Brad, clean that hair off your scanner!!;)Just don't tell me where the hair came from.:confused:
bradp
02-09-2010, 10:59 PM
Not any harder than anything else out there. I did it for 10 yrs.:mad:
Just don't tell me where the hair came from.:confused:
You DON'T want to know:D
1984rampage
02-09-2010, 11:45 PM
Right on! Here's a clean swap...makes me really miss the ones I've owned! http://thebaron.110mb.com/v8citation/
LOL did you guys check out his page on turbocharging the 4.9L?? Instead of using a holset like he originally planned he decided to go with a stock TM mitsu turbo... Like those arent a restriction on our engines let alone a V8
blk86trbo
02-09-2010, 11:48 PM
Like those arent a restriction on our engines let alone a V8
You are correct, but I think he mentioned only wanting 5 lbs of boost or so.
black86glhs
02-10-2010, 12:02 AM
You are correct, but I think he mentioned only wanting 5 lbs of boost or so.
I wouldn't turbo any Caddy 4.X engine. I don't trust the bottom ends. Besides, that is like putting a chandelier in an outhouse. IMHO.
Turbo the 4.6 northstar, ok.
Only wanting a small amount of boost doesnt really matter.. although pressurizing a 4.9 to 5psi with that thing is definitely pushing the compressor side.
Its the fact that he's planning on putting a 4.9L +5psi of boost worth of exhaust through an exhaust housing and wastegate that are restrictive on a stock 2.2! His exhaust backpressure is going to be insanely high, cause reversion, and make him have a lot more heat and a lot less power than if he ran the same 5 psi of boost on a right-sized turbo.
Remember, the mitsu is considered too small for a 2.5 from the get go, primarily because of its restrictive turbine section.. so using TWO of them on a ~5.0 L motor would STILL be too small. Using one is just asking for frustration.
I think x-11s are unique, but id rather have a 1st gen z24 hatchback, or a 2.8L cimarron (had one, would like another).
supercrackerbox
02-10-2010, 03:12 AM
I don't know what to think of that swap. Flippin performance lacking engine.
Agreed. One of Cody's 3.4/3.5 swaps would be easier and would stomp that car.
But remember, back when the 4.9 swap was invented, people still thought v8's had some kind of automatic awesomeness because they were v8s.
and... i dont think a stock 3400 would be faster than that motor.. a 3500, maybe. Id like to get something and 3500 swap it.
Like a cherokee! :o
... or a 1st gen z24 or cimarron. :)
WickedShelby88
02-10-2010, 02:47 PM
I like the cimarron. That would be a neater swap. I think the reason behind the 4.9 was the fact that it supposedly weighs close to what the original engine did. A northstar or 3500 does sound A LOT better.
I dunno, im diggin this cherokee idea too... i mean, what the hell else are you gonna do with a 2.8L cherokee besides make fun of it? a 2wd cherokee doesnt weigh much more than a cimarron.. should be fun!
black86glhs
02-10-2010, 05:26 PM
I dunno, im diggin this cherokee idea too... i mean, what the hell else are you gonna do with a 2.8L cherokee besides make fun of it? a 2wd cherokee doesnt weigh much more than a cimarron.. should be fun!
GM used t osell a 3.4V6 upgrade for the 82-85 carbed 2.8 S-10s (I bet it would drop in a Cherokee nicely). Going from 110 hp to 160 hp would feel awesome. It was a swap in. Now take a 3.4 and add port injection and some tuning.......
Well, the 3500 is factory mpi and variable valve timing.. it's rated at 200 hp at the crank but i think ive heard they dyno more than that would suggest.. the only time ive driven one it felt stronger than 200hp.. They make good power over 6000 rpm bone stock (FINALLY.. took GM two decades to make a good version of that engine). Ive seen one modded n/a one in a cavalier running high 12s.
The rarer 3.9 is rated about 240 crank hp and will move a midsize gm car that weighs more than a cherokee into the 14s.
black86glhs
02-10-2010, 11:02 PM
Well, the 3500 is factory mpi and variable valve timing.. it's rated at 200 hp at the crank but i think ive heard they dyno more than that would suggest.. the only time ive driven one it felt stronger than 200hp.. They make good power over 6000 rpm bone stock (FINALLY.. took GM two decades to make a good version of that engine). Ive seen one modded n/a one in a cavalier running high 12s.
The rarer 3.9 is rated about 240 crank hp and will move a midsize gm car that weighs more than a cherokee into the 14s.
I was looking at it from a rear drive standpoint. The RWD blocks are easier to drop in, that is why I stopped at the 3.4.
I would love to see what the 3.9 would run like in my Intrigue.:nod:
Hmm, i have no specific info on what different between the blocks.. probably mounting bosses. Any idea?
black86glhs
02-11-2010, 02:04 AM
Hmm, i have no specific info on what different between the blocks.. probably mounting bosses. Any idea?
Yeah, there is a difference. I'm not sure if the bell housing side is different or not. I know that the RWD 60 degree V6's have a different pattern than the 90 degree V6's. I've wondered if the FWD and RWD are the same or not. Even the previous generation 3400 V6 made 180 hp and 210 ft/lb torque. That would be a nice upgrade (from 110hp and 150 ft/lb torque) and easier to fit in an X-body.
Yeah, there is a difference. I'm not sure if the bell housing side is different or not.
The bell housing pattern is the same, but there is an extra boss or "ear" on the FWD versions, but it's just a SawsAll away from fitting! That's what BradP's Dad did when they shoehorned a 2.8 into his Toyota(?) work truck! Too bad the air cleaner only had about 1.5" clearance! I've always wondered what it would have run like if it could have gotten better air!
Now, that was some time ago, so I don't know if the current versions are still different in this way or if they finally just made a "one-size-fits-all" block, but that's the last word I have...
Mike
bradp
02-11-2010, 06:01 PM
The bell housing pattern is the same, but there is an extra boss or "ear" on the FWD versions, but it's just a SawsAll away from fitting! That's what BradP's Dad did when they shoehorned a 2.8 into his Toyota(?) work truck! Too bad the air cleaner only had about 1.5" clearance! I've always wondered what it would have run like if it could have gotten better air!
Now, that was some time ago, so I don't know if the current versions are still different in this way or if they finally just made a "one-size-fits-all" block, but that's the last word I have...
Mike
I had to sawzall the left ear off the 2.8 mpfi camaro engine I put in the x-11. I still have pics of the Nissan 4x4 with the 2.8 too. Damn that thing ran good!!
blk86trbo
02-11-2010, 06:27 PM
I had to sawzall the left ear off the 2.8 mpfi camaro engine I put in the x-11. I still have pics of the Nissan 4x4 with the 2.8 too. Damn that thing ran good!!
Dig them pics out my man!
You know something Brad...my burnt orange 81 X-11 leaked oil like a sieve (after some research, I now believe it might have been the distributor seal). It was like clockwork, every 300 miles I had to refill the crankcase...it would literally leak a quart in like 100 miles! But the thing ran smooth and had great power, I just loved that car! With all that rust, a huge exhaust leak, and fluids dripping everywhere, it was a sad sight. But that didn't stop that fact that it was overall a sporty ride that took every bit of abuse I could throw at it and came back for more.
I couldn't have more praise for that HO engine, and it sounds like you've had some good 2.8's too. But it never fails, every time I talk to someone in person about the 2.8, they say it was a piece of crap...I just don't get it??? :confused2:
the 2.8 through 3.4 all would puke an incredible amount of oil through their distributor seals.
I had a 95 3.4 firebird for a short time that i got fr $400 that had a leaking seal. It didnt have a distributor but just a blockoff plate (same seal) and it was tucked WAAY back there against the firewall. Took me a long time with mirrors and some funky tools to get that sucker changed.
Its also a pita on 3.1 cars :p
black86glhs
02-11-2010, 11:12 PM
Dig them pics out my man!
You know something Brad...my burnt orange 81 X-11 leaked oil like a sieve (after some research, I now believe it might have been the distributor seal). It was like clockwork, every 300 miles I had to refill the crankcase...it would literally leak a quart in like 100 miles! But the thing ran smooth and had great power, I just loved that car! With all that rust, a huge exhaust leak, and fluids dripping everywhere, it was a sad sight. But that didn't stop that fact that it was overall a sporty ride that took every bit of abuse I could throw at it and came back for more.
I couldn't have more praise for that HO engine, and it sounds like you've had some good 2.8's too. But it never fails, every time I talk to someone in person about the 2.8, they say it was a piece of crap...I just don't get it??? :confused2:I know what you mean Paul. Both 2.8s and the 3.1 in the wife's Beretta ran awesome and took all kinds of abuse.
the 2.8 through 3.4 all would puke an incredible amount of oil through their distributor seals.
I had a 95 3.4 firebird for a short time that i got fr $400 that had a leaking seal. It didnt have a distributor but just a blockoff plate (same seal) and it was tucked WAAY back there against the firewall. Took me a long time with mirrors and some funky tools to get that sucker changed.
Its also a pita on 3.1 cars :pIt leaks no more oil than the 2.0 and 2.4 head gaskets...LOL. The distributor seals are cake. Granted I've done so many I lost count. Thanks for the info on the mounting boss needing removed. Looks like the FWD and RWD blocks are closer than others have said. :nod:
blk86trbo
02-11-2010, 11:20 PM
I know what you mean Paul. Both 2.8s and the 3.1 in the wife's Beretta ran awesome and took all kinds of abuse.
Right, Bryan...they seemed to be very reliable, I just don't understand why I always heard such bad things about them? Maybe I just met people that were too inconvenienced to lift the hood and check on them more than once a month :confused2:
black86glhs
02-11-2010, 11:23 PM
Right, Bryan...they seemed to be very reliable, I just don't understand why I always heard such bad things about them? Maybe I just met people that were too inconvenienced to lift the hood and check on them more than once a month :confused2:Bingo!!:(
bradp
02-12-2010, 04:46 PM
Yeah most people never checked or they changed the oil once a year (whether it needed it or not):confused:
Well i think a lot of people were pretty pissed about leaking intake manifold gaskets turning their oil into sludge and ruining the motor.. similar to chryco 2.7 maybe? :p
And also, people dont enjoy fixing that stupid fitting for the heater line that always breaks inside that block thing. Sorry i forgot the words.
And i personally dont like the fact that the motors are a PITA to work on compared to a 3.3 but dont have any upside.. they are just inferior to the 3.3, which is also easier to work on.... hmmm. And speaking of which, i cant remember the last time i had to pop my 604 tranny into neutral while slowing down to keep it from stalling the engine because a solenoid failed.
And i seem to recall my 24 valve 3.5 was pretty easy to change the timing belt and the alternator on compared to a 24 valve 3.4 from the same time period..
I mean, i think its a decent engine family, but there are reasons why Joe Public didnt like them, and i think they're generally inferior to the 3.3/3.5/3.8 with the exception that dodge stopped developing the ohv ones and GM didnt.
86Shelby
02-12-2010, 08:14 PM
Looks like the FWD and RWD blocks are closer than others have said. :nod:
Watch out with the starter mounting. I tried stuffing a FWD 2.8 in a 4x4 Blazer for a quickie engine swap. The starter and differential occupy the same space. Double checked the old engine, and sure as sh.t the starter pads were on different sides.
black86glhs
02-12-2010, 08:26 PM
Watch out with the starter mounting. I tried stuffing a FWD 2.8 in a 4x4 Blazer for a quickie engine swap. The starter and differential occupy the same space. Double checked the old engine, and sure as sh.t the starter pads were on different sides.Thats when the truck becomes 2wd...LOL.
Thats a good catch and good info.. but i also think id only bother doing a small motor swap into a 2wd. If i wanted to do a 4x4 id just buy a torquey 4.3 blazer or 4.0 cherokee as those are cheap and have the low-end right off the bat.
TopDollar69
02-13-2010, 10:29 AM
Check out this sweet Omega one of the MNSDAC guys picked up recently
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f1/f27/158945-mnsdac-minnesota-meeting-100.html
86Shelby
02-13-2010, 11:55 AM
Holy crap! So much potential, and yet so much 'WTF did I bring this home for?'
whywoody
02-15-2010, 01:51 AM
Check out whats behind it.
http://image.hotrod.com/f/9256957/hrdp_0704_01_z+GM_performance_division+citation_X1 1.jpg
Wow,I don't really know these cars,but I grew up in Australia and we had these Holden Torana's in the late '70's.
Bit different...308ci V8,rear wheel drive etc. They look very similar I think.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll189/whywoody/A9x78ToranaHatch.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll189/whywoody/LXToranaHatch.jpg
black86glhs
02-15-2010, 03:13 AM
Wow,I don't really know these cars,but I grew up in Australia and we had these Holden Torana's in the late '70's.
Bit different...308ci V8,rear wheel drive etc. They look very similar I think.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll189/whywoody/A9x78ToranaHatch.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll189/whywoody/LXToranaHatch.jpgAustralia had the good cars.
PBODY
02-15-2010, 09:28 AM
I think the Australian Holden Torana's are closer to our Vega/Monza.
http://chevrolet-parts.uneedapart.com/images/chevrolet-vega-parts.jpg
blk86trbo
02-15-2010, 11:49 AM
Wow,I don't really know these cars,but I grew up in Australia and we had these Holden Torana's in the late '70's.
Bit different...308ci V8,rear wheel drive etc. They look very similar I think.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll189/whywoody/A9x78ToranaHatch.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll189/whywoody/LXToranaHatch.jpg
That's really striking how similar they are...appear to use the same glass. If I owned one, I'd entertain the thought of installing an X-11 front end.
Here's another link with pics and info www.ChevyCitationForever.net
thefitisgay
02-15-2010, 12:34 PM
That's really striking how similar they are...appear to use the same glass. If I owned one, I'd entertain the thought of installing an X-11 front end.
Here's another link with pics and info www.ChevyCitationForever.net
the back side glass is definately different... and it looks like the a pillars are completely different angles
blk86trbo
02-15-2010, 12:53 PM
You're right...after Googling a bunch more photos they're different
blk86trbo
02-26-2010, 04:32 PM
Was searching through some old emblems in the garage and found this...
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee39/blk86trbo/009-11.jpg
black86glhs
02-26-2010, 05:28 PM
Was searching through some old emblems in the garage and found this...
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee39/blk86trbo/009-11.jpg
Paul...you're the man. I like it. Back in 81, dodge didn't have anything that made that kind of power in the FWDs. It took them until 84. So they pioneered the FWD sporty car.:hail:
I wonder how much grief this statement will get me.:eyebrows:
blk86trbo
02-26-2010, 07:14 PM
Back in 81, dodge didn't have anything that made that kind of power in the FWDs. It took them until 84. So they pioneered the FWD sporty car.:hail:
Correct Bryan, I totally agree :nod:
bradp
02-26-2010, 09:32 PM
I really miss my old X bodies. I remember cruising Crawfordsville just waiting to dust off a Mustang GT or Trans Am (in between fixing the carburetor)
black86glhs
02-26-2010, 10:50 PM
I really miss my old X bodies. I remember cruising Crawfordsville just waiting to dust off a Mustang GT or Trans Am (in between fixing the carburetor)
One of the best times was me and my wife both in our cars(we weren't even dating at this time) on I-95 heading towards the Woodrow Wilson bridge at 110mph talking on the CB. I was in my 81 V6 4sp Citation and she was in her 90 V6 Beretta. :nod::evil:
Ive got a local friend whos into T-m's whose got an old x-11 taken apart right now.. Ill have to bug him for a ride when it goes back together. Ive never even sat in one!
83Shelby
02-26-2010, 11:58 PM
Neat pics and stories!
How about those V-8 FWD X-11's? Apparently the engine cradle on the front of an X-11 is the same setup as the engine cradle on the back of a Fiero...and there are companies that make kits to drop the FWD V-8 Cadillac motor in the back of a Fiero, so...
The 4.9 Caddy-whack motor should only be used as a boat anchor!:rockon:
iTurbo
03-03-2010, 10:45 AM
I saw a Citation yesterday. The thing is that this thing looked CHERRY! It's parked right across the street from where I live; I'll try to get pics today.
black86glhs
03-03-2010, 04:04 PM
I saw a Citation yesterday. The thing is that this thing looked CHERRY! It's parked right across the street from where I live; I'll try to get pics today.
There are 2 or 3 around here all owned by older people. Man I would love to get ahold of them.
blk86trbo
08-23-2011, 11:06 AM
Check out this clean X-11!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320748320874&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_500wt_1183
Curious what the reserve is. Looks like my 1st one, only 100x better!
Mike
black86glhs
08-23-2011, 05:49 PM
Anyone here bidding on this?
Too far away for me to consider, even if I had the $$
Mike
PS New smilies suck... nothing I feel comfortable using...
black86glhs
08-23-2011, 11:17 PM
We will see what happens on the last day, last hour of bidding. Right now, I'm in the lead.
4 l-bodies
08-23-2011, 11:38 PM
Too bad it's not a 85. Last year was FI. I had a couple friends that had these when new, so I have a soft spot for X-11's.
Todd
black86glhs
08-23-2011, 11:50 PM
I had 2 of them when I was in school and right after. Well, citations. Looking at this one semi serious.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
blk86trbo
08-24-2011, 09:45 AM
We will see what happens on the last day, last hour of bidding. Right now, I'm in the lead.
Good luck man, go for it!!!
Too bad it's not a 85. Last year was FI. I had a couple friends that had these when new, so I have a soft spot for X-11's.
Todd
The 1985 model is probably my favorite...fuel injection, the integrated side mirrors, plus the redesigned dash. A couple cool parts that I've been storing....one of those crazy vertical am/fm cassette players, and the setup for the remote rear vent windows
black86glhs
08-24-2011, 03:32 PM
So far so good, but you know how ebay works...lol.
blk86trbo
08-25-2011, 01:10 AM
Hey here's another one...it's the first year model, so it has less of the cool options like fiberglass hood and alloy wheels. But it does have a manual trans, plus it's on Mike's side of the Country :)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270805663746&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123
clocktowersniper
08-25-2011, 09:03 PM
Ok I dont get it. Whats so special about them?
86Shelby
08-25-2011, 09:18 PM
It's chevy's equivalent to a v6 powered GLH had one existed. Niche, geeky stuff but nonetheless kinda cool.
black86glhs
08-25-2011, 09:52 PM
I'm out. The wifey won't let me go higher on my limit. That's ok, I still need to get the Omni running, anyway.
Rattlesnake
08-27-2011, 09:58 PM
I like the X-11 Citations also, never had one. As a matter of fact the stock cam in the 2.8 HO Fiero is the X-11 cam. In the Fiero community is also very common to see the turd 4.9 Caddy engine swap. Since I like to be the underdog I decided to build the stock 2.8 in my Fiero to be a 4.9 killer. Since I don't like to bull, here is the proof:
1st Dyno: (dotted lines)Stock 2.8 with big bore TB and 1.6 rockers VS (solid lines)same 2.8 with heads, cam, intake, headers and .040 over bore.
33544
2nd Dyno: Stock 4.9 Cadillac engine.
33545
If you want to intimidate people, you'll get that with the 4.9 grunt. If you want to embarrass that guy with that 4.9, contact me. Bear in mind that the my 2.8 was tested in a Mustang dyno which reads lower numbers and the 4.9 in a Dynojet which reads higher numbers compare to the Mustang.
blk86trbo
10-29-2011, 10:07 PM
Here you go Brian, inform the wifey that this one won't be slipping away :eyebrows:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320783858673&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123#ht_500wt_1139
black86glhs
10-29-2011, 10:51 PM
She has a soft spot for the citations, too. I owned 2 of them from the time she met me until I got my cavalier wagon. Maybe I could get this one.:confused2:
Partly due to this thread and partly due to needing a change of pace, I did a little work to the X...
This is the one I got a number of years ago via Ebay... It came with a lesson regarding buying cars without laying your own eyes upon them (a lesson I thought I'd learned years ago!).
Anyway, got it running and fixed the trans mounts that were causing the trans to rest on the frame rail, this also fixed the funky angle the air cleaner was sitting at, or at least made it much better! It's nice to know I can hop in and move it as need be now.
Next up will be fixing the dash/gauges, and headlight switch... Did I mention that this particular unit "has a little rust", which translates into holes along the door bottoms and a piece of plastic where the battery is supposed to sit!
Mike
black86glhs
11-04-2011, 07:45 PM
Nice Mike. At least you can move it now.
Yeah, I had forgotten how much I liked the sound of the 60*V6... Almost as much as a V08! Plus I still have a ton of bit and pieces from when I had my 1st one... As well as a pretty good stash of turbo parts... Hmmmm....
Mike
black86glhs
11-04-2011, 10:45 PM
I either have to get rid of one of my cars(ain't gonna happen....yet) or i can't get one. Per the wife. Right now, its her money talking so I can't complain. I have wanted to put a 3400 in one. It's lighter than a 3800 and it leaves a larger amount of room for a turbo option in the future.:thumb:
You read my mind!
I've also got a AWD Pontiac 6000 in case I get really ambitious!
But for now I'll be happy just to have it fully functional and reliable.
Mike
PS I've already been told a few have to go, and I agree 10 cars is a bit much to deal with.
TopDollar69
11-05-2011, 06:32 PM
Man, I wish I would have bought one of the 2 AWD 6000 SEs that I've seen in my lifetime. Surprisingly both cars were in decent condition. I will probably never see another one now.
supercharged024
11-06-2011, 12:17 AM
Well, just saw this thread on the GM Xbodies. I rescued one from a yard 2 years ago when I was getting parts for my Turismo and Charger. I've posted pics on turbododge but I'll give the link to the cardomain page. It's an 81 Sport Omega. After some research they only made 696 of these. It's in rough shape from being in the yard for many years. (people walking on the roof, actually sunken into the earth so the floors are toast) I just couldn't resist. Look closely at some of the pics, you won't believe the drivers side spindle/wheel bearing. I will be getting more done this winter on it. I have gotten all the kinks out of the roof this summer. It's amazing how the roof eventually "popped" back into shape as I worked out all the creases with the body hammers and dollies. The most unique part of this car is that the Sport Omega was the first GM vehicle to use the "plastic" body panels so commonly used on their later cars. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3341573/1981-oldsmobile-omega
Man, I wish I would have bought one of the 2 AWD 6000 SEs that I've seen in my lifetime. Surprisingly both cars were in decent condition. I will probably never see another one now.
The one I have isn't in that great a shape, it's been totaled a couple of times and so has a salvage title... Which is one of the reasons I'm planning on doing a AWD conversion on the X, they have the same basic body so stuff should swap fairly easily, heck, you can even swap the dash if you like! Although I do perfer the X's gauge cluster to the 6000's strip O'gauges...
One car I'd like to see is the AWD Ford Tempo... Yeah, I actually saw one so I know they made them, but that's as far as my knowledge extends... Really just curious, not really a fan of the Tempo!
Well, just saw this thread on the GM Xbodies. I rescued one from a yard 2 years ago when I was getting parts for my Turismo and Charger. I've posted pics on turbododge but I'll give the link to the cardomain page. It's an 81 Sport Omega. After some research they only made 696 of these. It's in rough shape from being in the yard for many years. (people walking on the roof, actually sunken into the earth so the floors are toast) I just couldn't resist. Look closely at some of the pics, you won't believe the drivers side spindle/wheel bearing. I will be getting more done this winter on it. I have gotten all the kinks out of the roof this summer. It's amazing how the roof eventually "popped" back into shape as I worked out all the creases with the body hammers and dollies. The most unique part of this car is that the Sport Omega was the first GM vehicle to use the "plastic" body panels so commonly used on their later cars. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3341573/1981-oldsmobile-omega
Yours is the first example of one of these I have EVER seen! I knew they made the X, Phoenix SJ, and the Olds version, but I've never actually seen what they looked like... While I could do without the 80s graphic treatment, I bet it would be a pretty fun car!
BTW, that was a 3.4 from a F-body, correct? This is the direction I was thinking, just because it should be an easy swap and difficult for the Smog Nazis to spot... I LOVE the idea of a serpentine belt, it makes too much sense to not go that route!
Mike
supercharged024
11-06-2011, 11:24 PM
I've thought about doing the AWD conversion myself, but after seeing a newer Mazda Miata up on the lift at my friends garage I think I'd seriously consider using the rear suspension cradle from that as opposed to adapting the rear cradle from the AWD6000. The Miata has a much simpler style to adapt to the underside of a regular front drive x car. You don't have to cut in the strut towers like you would have to with the 6000's rear suspension. The 3.4 is actually a front drive 3400 that I swapped out pistons from a F-body 3.4 so I could use the iron heads. Remember the F-body has the starter on the wrong side. Getting the carb intake to work took a little modifying as the EGR passage on the underside interfered with the roller lifter retainers. You will also need to get a set of custom length pushrods since GM didn't make an iron head 60V6 with the roller lifter setup. I had a set made and of course they make 16 so I have 4 leftover. Being you're in Cali I'm not sure you'd be able to do the serpentine setup, as it does not use a smog pump so I think you're SOL unless the serpentine on the F-body will work. Yes you can stick the long water pump F-body setup on a 3400 just need to hopefully find a donor with everything in a upull yard so you get all of it. As far as the graphics go, you either love it or hate it. I'll be keeping it just like it is when I get it painted but probably going to go with a newer pearl white to make it the whole car "pop" a little better. I haven't checked out any metallic grey colors yet to see if I can find a particular one that has a pearl coat as well.
black86glhs
11-06-2011, 11:41 PM
Have you thought about the rear suspension from an Uplander or Rendezvous? It might be too bulky, but an idea.
supercharged024
11-07-2011, 10:44 PM
I guess I need to see one of those in a salvage yard and do some measuring before I would say yes or no. Of course if using any of these suspensions in a car you plan to put down some fairly serious power you would have to use the Ford IRS 8.8 diff such as I did on my Shelby Charger.
black86glhs
11-08-2011, 12:05 AM
OR a corvette rear. :nod:
The diff in the 6000 is the front diff from a S-10, so I doubt IT would be the weak link. Much like the AWD Omni project, the PTO is much more likely to be the weak link since all the power has to go through it, not just what ends up in back ...
I like the idea of the Rendezvous/Aztec, but I think you'd have to do the whole drivetrain so as to match the ratios front to back. Aside from adapting its configuration and narrowing the axles, it would be great! You'd get a 3.4 with the better flowing aluminum heads and a 4 speed auto!
Unfortunately, I've never come across one in the yards, heck the AWD vans are rare, still if $would allow, it would be a great place to start!
Mike
supercharged024
11-08-2011, 08:16 PM
No that diff that came with the rear 6000 suspension was nothing like an S10 front diff. When I started grafting that into the rear of my Charger that thing was weird shaped and I doubt the ring gear diameter was even 6" if that. Remember, it was originally designed as a part time rear wheel assist and not meant for extended use as it stated in the owners manual supplement that came with the AWD 6000 STE's. Anyway I actually would probably just do another rear wheel drive conversion on the Omega like my Charger if I decided to start doing that much modifying to it. Sure all wheel is great but rear wheel drive in a car people know as a front drive car is always a blast when you surprise them. I'd be tempted do do something crazy or different like getting the 3.4 turned around facing the right way and then try to find one of the old B&M supercharger kits I had seen on an S10 with a 2.8 and have that sticking through the hood old school style cutting around the supercharger just right. I'd probably make it fuel injected though.
black86glhs
11-08-2011, 09:14 PM
That would be awesome to see!
supercharged024
11-20-2011, 11:48 AM
I was on the citations forever.net site and they show Johnny Lightning has made an X-11. I think I'll have to get one or 2.
supercharged024
01-04-2012, 11:26 PM
I got the Ommega in the garage and I'm ready to get to the floors. What do you think of the drivers spindle/caliper/bearing? Stupid huh? http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3341573/1981-oldsmobile-omega/page-7
black86glhs
01-04-2012, 11:38 PM
Yeah, that wur,wur,wur noise is a bad bearing....lol.
What the hell are you guys talking about? ??!!!
Hub-less rotors were cutting edge technology in the 80s... wait, what? They weren't? Ok then that's bad!
Mike
turbovanmanČ
01-05-2012, 01:52 PM
My dad has an AWD 6000 STE brand new, for a Demo, when he worked at GM back then, the stock stereo was pretty good, :nod:
My dad has an AWD 6000 STE brand new, for a Demo, when he worked at GM back then, the stock stereo was pretty good, :nod:
Funny, I have one of those that I plan to meld with the X-11 to make an AWD X-11... Technically, it's a 90 so it's an SE, not an STE...
Guess I'll have to make it an awd SEX-11!!!
Mike
black86glhs
01-05-2012, 10:03 PM
Giggity!!!
supercharged024
01-06-2012, 12:27 AM
What I want to know about the AWD, is the transmission/ptu differential for the rear driveshaft all one case or does the ptu go between the trans case and the passengers cv shaft? I'd like to do the same with the Omega but I prefer a manual tranny. Oh, and just put a dash between the SE and X11(SE-X11) haha.
The AWD trans from the 6000 is special of course... The pan gaskets are unique and so I'm inclined to believe that the PTU is part of it, but the car is still intact so I don't have it out where I can look at it, I could be wrong... If so, then it's like the Caravan and bolts on in place of the passenger "tail shaft" extension. This makes the most sense to me, but if that's how it is, I don't understand why the pan would be different...
Mike
supercharged024
02-04-2012, 06:45 PM
While I was at a yard last weekend getting a good dash and rear bumper fillers for the Omega I noticed an AWD 6000. The engine/trans are gone but from the driveshaft back it's all there. So I've been thinking about it all week and also searching for at least the transfer case to use. I'm seriously considering doing the AWD swap but of course for me I need to have a manual trans. I have to check out the transfer case in person to determine if I think I can get it adapted to the 4speed manual before I go ahead.
While I was at a yard last weekend getting a good dash and rear bumper fillers for the Omega I noticed an AWD 6000. The engine/trans are gone but from the driveshaft back it's all there. So I've been thinking about it all week and also searching for at least the transfer case to use. I'm seriously considering doing the AWD swap but of course for me I need to have a manual trans. I have to check out the transfer case in person to determine if I think I can get it adapted to the 4speed manual before I go ahead.
The engine cradle is unique and so are the floors/trunk pan, if you can get them cheap enough, it will save a lot of time fabricating that stuff. The rear end is a module and would make that part easy too... I don't know on the transfer case, IIRC it was specially adapted to the trans, or more accurately the trans was adapted to it, so I'm not sure if it would just bolt up to another trans or not... If you can get it cheap enough, I'd consider buying it from you if you can't use it, as I expect it will be the part that breaks, if anything does...
Mike
supercharged024
02-08-2012, 11:00 PM
I know the floor is different in the AWD. I'll see what the gas tank looks like and as far as the cradle being unique, I can work without it. I'm sure they moved the rack&pinion a little to make room for the t-case. Fortunately because the Omega is an early X body the rack is mounted to the firewall so it's well out of the way of the trans already. I am curious about the sway bar and how it looks/designed for the AWD. I'm already familiar with the rear suspension because that's what I used on my Charger when I converted it to rear wheel drive. I have found a local yard with the transmission and the transfer case. I'm hoping to check that out tomorrow. Thankfully the transmission is listed for sale as a core so it'll be cheap. My plan right now about the floor is that it should be ok as is. I know they tried to make room for the driveshaft and exhaust so I'm thinking I'll look into a company that makes oval exhaust tubing to deal with clearance issues rather than enlarging the hump in the floor. Since I already have to deal with some rust in the rear shock towers I'll end up just fabricating the strut towers regardless of whether I did the AWD swap or not. One of the most important things I hope will work out is the gas tank. I'd really like to be able to use the stock AWD tank instead of just sticking a fuel cell in the trunk, but that's one possibility. We shall see.
The stock AWD tank is a "saddle" style and uses one standard pump and one "jet pump" which uses pressure/flow from the powered pump to move fuel and pull fuel from both sides of the saddle. I'm not sure of the flow path, but I suspect that the "jet pump" just transfers fuel from its side to the powered pump side.
The saddle shaped tank is how they got clearance for the drive shaft and why the floor of the trunk only has 1/2 of a spare tire well, and the actual spare was right in the trunk, which kind of sucks for trunk space...
Mike
supercharged024
02-09-2012, 08:39 PM
So the tank is really only on one side of the driveshaft? I guess I'll find out when I get back out there and start stripping it.
No, like a saddle on a horse, it arches over from one side to the other, with a pressure driven pump(passive) on one side to move fuel from that side over to the one with the "active" pump... Imagine looking at an arched bridge from the water and you'll have a pretty good idea what it looks like. Funny thing is I have one of these AWD 6000s and have been putting off stripping it as it is easier to move about and not have to come up with space to put the parts... But, it if will help you out, I could take some pictures... Just let me know.
Mike
supercharged024
02-10-2012, 12:30 AM
That's what I thought it looked like. The Tbirds/Cougars with the IRS have a similar gas tank to make room for the driveshaft but I'm only using that as another example. I might need a pic of the sway bar. To be honest, when I saw the AWD in the yard I didn't take a close look. I could see the engine/trans were out, I just can't recall if the whole cradle was removed. It probably was since I could see the front of the driveshaft resting on the top of the car they stacked it on top of.
black86glhs
02-11-2012, 12:34 AM
Aurora's have the same type tank, also.
Thanks for that tidbit Bryan! I've been assuming it was an odd duck and so wouldn't have any jy options! Might help with the AWD Omni project as well!
Mike
black86glhs
02-11-2012, 05:26 PM
Thanks for that tidbit Bryan! I've been assuming it was an odd duck and so wouldn't have any jy options! Might help with the AWD Omni project as well!
MikeI'm not 100% on all of them, but most of the GM "G" body cars(Riviera, Aurora, Park Avenue, Lesabre, Bonneville) should have a similar setup. Nice having options. And they are plastic too!
Now I just have to find a yard that keeps them, the pick a parts here in Cali tend to remove them before they hit the yard...
supercharged024
02-12-2012, 02:01 AM
Yeah and if they don't remove the tanks they jab a hole in them, bastards.
88_pacifica
02-12-2012, 11:05 AM
...but most of the GM "G" body cars(Riviera, Aurora, Park Avenue, Lesabre, Bonneville)...
G body? That's like 3 different models listed there(H, W, G platforms)
Just bustin those balls.... :thumb:
Spedwagon
02-12-2012, 07:55 PM
http://gt.ppdictionary.com/gm_prototypes/85_Citation_X11.jpg
Awd x11, anybody remember this
http://gt.ppdictionary.com/gm_prototypes/1985_CitationX11.jpg
Ironically, that route would probably be easier! Especially with drive by wire and electronically controlled transmissions!
Mike
PS thanks for posting the article, I didn't have a copy!
supercharged024
02-12-2012, 11:56 PM
I found this about another AWD test mule, the twin turbo Beretta with a 5 speed. It did use the 6000 drivetrain so they fabbed an adapter to mount the transfer case to the manual trans. I guess my question now is which manual trans is the strongest. the Muncie 4 speed or the getrag 5 speed? Of course the Pont G6 F40 6 speed comes to mind as well but that's a money's no object option. http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/beretta-twin-turbo-all-wheel-drive-t116680.html
86Shelby
02-13-2012, 12:01 AM
GM sold that AWD X11 at an auction either last year or back in 2010. They let go a bunch of devolpment mules and other rarities at that sale; I think the Buick Roadmaster LS1 mule would have been fun. It was covered in Car Carft IIRC.
black86glhs
02-13-2012, 12:35 AM
G body? That's like 3 different models listed there(H, W, G platforms)
Just bustin those balls.... :thumb:Shutup peanut gallery! :D:p
black86glhs
02-13-2012, 12:51 AM
I'll bet the rear cradle came from the fiero in that twin engine X-body.
Spedwagon
02-13-2012, 06:40 PM
I'll bet the rear cradle came from the fiero in that twin engine X-body.
I might be crazy but I think the fiero, citation and maybe celebrity use the same engine cradle anyway. My brother had a 2.5 fiero, and we put alot of engines in it. Eventually I grenaded the clutch bad enough to destroy the transaxle, and he gave up.
That twin motor car made me wonder and plot on gutting the trunk of a k car sedan, welding in a donor front unitbody section and building a Awd 8cyl k car, then I learned 3.0 v6 would fit, 12cyl k car. Then I got an ex cop diplomat and forgot what a k car was. Last spring I crushed the last of the minivans bombnis and k carsn
And next thing I know some kid sells me a solid granny owned k wagon, wish I'd kept some more stuff…
TopDollar69
02-13-2012, 07:13 PM
That Beretta is awesome, it almost looks like it has VNT turbos on it.
Rattlesnake
02-16-2012, 04:59 PM
Those are "real" stock cars!
vcrpro3
03-03-2012, 01:36 AM
I had a 1980 Buick Skylark X body car. One of the best cars i've owned. The build quality was much better than the first and second year K body Mopars. FWD drive cars were so new then, when i bought snow tires for the Skylark at Sears, they were put on back... The mechanics and service manager of the center had to be told by Sears district service manager the were not incurring some kind of liability by putting the snow tires on the front!!! :o
GLHS069
03-03-2012, 03:02 AM
http://gt.ppdictionary.com/gm_prototypes/85_Citation_X11.jpg
Awd x11, anybody remember this
http://gt.ppdictionary.com/gm_prototypes/1985_CitationX11.jpg
I saw this car when i was in College. It was prety cool. I talked with one of the guys showing it and he said it wasn't running perfect. I think they were running the college circuit for Mechanical Engineering students.
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