Stock diff strength (413)

[Big_P]

Since the spider gears in my differential decided to take a vacation last month in my 86 600ES, I'm kind of paranoid that the replacement transmission (which I'm getting through Cindy :thumb: ) will suffer the same fate. The car is a 2.2 TII converted and intercooled, all stock except for 14lbs boost.

I plan on racing it once in a while and I enjoy a powerbrake burnout on occasion. Should I be worried? Is there something I can have done that can strengthen the differential?

[turbovanman²]

Get the diff pin savers or EAR's-that's what they look like. Dealer or tranny shops, they stop the pin from coming out but won't stop the spider gear damage from one tire burnout's. The only fix is a LSD or try to balance the front weight distribution and/or shim the sway bar per TDG.

[thedon809]

The 87+ autos have beefier differentials and axles. Don't know how much of a difference it would make if you are killing spider gears. Make sure you flush your tranny cooler and buy a new torque converter when you put the new tranny in. Metal is near impossible to get out of the TC.

[turbovanman²]

The 87+ autos have beefier differentials and axles. Don't know how much of a difference it would make if you are killing spider gears. Make sure you flush your tranny cooler and buy a new torque converter when you put the new tranny in. Metal is near impossible to get out of the TC.

Not much difference for the internals, aka spider gears.

Agreed, also run an external magnetic filter on the cooler inlet. To help with friction reduction, run a litre of synthetic 5w30.

[Speedeuphoria]

I like 15w50

[turbovanman²]

I like 15w50

Ok, there you go, :nod:

[Speedeuphoria]

But I'm going to try some tractor fluid this year, not the universal tractor, not sure if i will pay the $$$ for the John Deere or not but there is another tractor fluid at advance auto parts in a 5gal pail thats similar I think.

[Big_P]

89+ has a beefier diff?

I'm aiming for 18-20lbs boost tops, not looking for any serious power. But I do want something that isn't going to shatter when I brake boost like my last one did.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/petepete86/Image040-1.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/petepete86/Image039-2.jpg

[Speedeuphoria]

89+ has a beefier diff?

just the larger bearing on one side iirc

the spiders are still going to be weak. The diff pin savers will save the case from being vented but the spider gears can still get chewed up

When ohiorob was using the open diff he had to put new spider gears in every 3 races or so or they would go. Of course he was running 500hp but the spiders will always be a weak point

For 18-20lbs just getting the pin savers to save the case, put some oil in with the tranny fluid and the open diff should last a quite awhile

[turbovanman²]

just the larger bearing on one side iirc

the spiders are still going to be weak. The diff pin savers will save the case from being vented but the spider gears can still get chewed up

When ohiorob was using the open diff he had to put new spider gears in every 3 races or so or they would go. Of course he was running 500hp but the spiders will always be a weak point

For 18-20lbs just getting the pin savers to save the case, put some oil in with the tranny fluid and the open diff should last a quite awhile

The larger bearing only came on the Neon trans, IIRC, but as you and I both have said, it won't stop killing the spider gears. Only 2 wheel burnouts or an LSD will cure that.

[TheCanadian007]

In regards to adding motor oil to the auto tranny, what viscosity do you recommend and how much?

[Speedeuphoria]

1 liter or 1 quart, synthetic not sure if the viscosity matters much but anything from 5w30 to 15w50

[shadow88]

Just a little FYI.....If you get the pin retainers, the only real way to tell if they're buggered up is maybe a little noise, but mostly, the amount of movement when the vehicle is in park. It's important to measure the movement in park as a reference when it's first installed in the car.

[turbovanman²]

Just a little FYI.....If you get the pin retainers, the only real way to tell if they're buggered up is maybe a little noise, but mostly, the amount of movement when the vehicle is in park. It's important to measure the movement in park as a reference when it's first installed in the car.

That's a good tip. :nod:

[contraption22]

Avoid burnouts. No miracle lubricant, no "diff savers", no tool-steel spider shaft, nothing, will keep the spider gears from welding themselves to the spider shaft with excessive differential speeds.

[Vigo]

The pic is terrible quality but im thinking the pin wasnt the issue here. It seems like the spider gear just broke. A loose fit on the pin could cause that, but so could loose gear mesh due to wear.

How bout some quality pics to assuage my curiosity?

[turbovanman²]

The pic is terrible quality but im thinking the pin wasnt the issue here. It seems like the spider gear just broke. A loose fit on the pin could cause that, but so could loose gear mesh due to wear.

How bout some quality pics to assuage my curiosity?

That pic pretty well tells the story, :p

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/petepete86/Image039-2.jpg

[Keito]

Avoid burnouts. No miracle lubricant, no "diff savers", no tool-steel spider shaft, nothing, will keep the spider gears from welding themselves to the spider shaft with excessive differential speeds.

I always remember you saying this a few years back and I never do big burnouts on my GLHT.
Hooks with slicks just fine without it, 1.8xx 60's.

[contraption22]

I always remember you saying this a few years back and I never do big burnouts on my GLHT.
Hooks with slicks just fine without it, 1.8xx 60's.

Yes, and to this day, my best 60ft's have been with no burnout. Just a dry hop to clean the slicks. 1.7x before the Peloquin, consistent 1.6x with the Peloquin.

[John B]

How is Amsoil trans fluid in a 413?

[Vigo]

That pic pretty well tells the story

Because of the way the shim and the back of the side gear look?

[Big_P]

The pin was not the issue here. The pin, quite literally, looks perfect. I have yet to have the car spin one tire unless I pin it around a corner (which I really don't do). It always spins both tires.

The tires were not spinning when the diff went "kablooey", I was powerbraking ready to do a hole shot. Boost gauge just started to hit 13lbs when it shattered. The spider gears obviously discintigrated. There are chunks of them I have hanging from the rear view mirror in my car. One of them broke in half, the other one stayed put on the pin but there are zero teeth left on it.

[Vigo]

See thats what i thought, that the pin looks perfect. So one wheel peels didnt cause this and not doing them wouldnt have prevented it.

Im still wondering about the condition of the back of that gear and the shim, though.. are they all messed up?

[duster94]

I am new at this A413 stuff what is LSD. I am old enough to remember that when people did LSD they went on a trip and some never came back. LOL!!!!

[tryingbe]

Limited Slip Differential, helps to put power down on both tires, not just smoke one up.

[135sohc]

http://www.peloquins.com/products_A413.html

Pricey but very good quality and it is purpose made for the 413/31th

[duster94]

Thank You. Yes it is very pricey. I am curious does it let you turn corners without any issues ? Like a spool or locked spiders would ?

[thedon809]

Turning is fine with a limited slip.

[Vigo]

A torque biasing limited slip like the Peloquin actually improves your cornerning traction while under power. Under some circumstances it can make the car turn harder.

[turbovanman²]

Love my OBX but the spacer makes it more expensive, not sure if anyone has them anymore and if its a limited run, it can really up the price.

[duster94]

OK what is O B X ????

[A.J.]

For the ease of installation, I don't think you can beat the Peloquin. It's pricey but it drops right in, no grinding or cover modification. Bearing preload will need to be adjusted regardless of diff choice. I have two of them and might be buying a third (for a 41TE I'm considering for my SRT4 van).

[135sohc]

OK what is O B X ????

OBX motorsports LSD. It is a chinese knockoff of the Quaife LSD that was originally made for the Neon T-350 manual transmission, that unit (the quaife/obx) can also be used in the 2.2 manual transmissions and jammed into the 3 speed with some supporting mods.

[duster94]

OBX motorsports LSD. It is a chinese knockoff of the Quaife LSD that was originally made for the Neon T-350 manual transmission, that unit (the quaife/obx) can also be used in the 2.2 manual transmissions and jammed into the 3 speed with some supporting mods.

Thank you