Remote mount turbo help-IE to run IC or no and EGT questions?

[turbovanman²]

Ok, doing a remote mount on my 84 GMC 6.2 Diesel van, it has headers, nice 2.5 inch crossover pipe and a 3 inch system I built, mandrel of course.

So I plan on mounting the turbo aprox halfway back, then run a pipe from the turbo straight to the intake hat, or maybe I'll make some coils, so we are talking aprox 6-8 feet if I run it straight, so IC needed or no, its only going to be around 10 psi.

Now, they say max EGT's are 1200 at the turbo with it mounted up front on the engine, so with it being remove mounted, what should I do about monitoring EGT's? Put it at the collector or one of the header tubes or run it at the turbo and lower EGT's by a guess amount?

Thanks guys.

[Vigo]

Well, if you've already got the EGT setup, I would put a bung for it in both places right now (pre turbo) and get a feel for the temperature difference.

BUT, who is 'they' and what is that 'max' referring to? The max temperature for the turbine to run without melting, or max as referring to combustion temps that melt the motor? Im guessing it's referring to the motor! In that case, you'd want it near the motor! So to me it seems like putting it back near the turbo isnt giving you useful information, and i would put it on the exhaust manifold, and if if you know that on that motor one cylinder typically runs hotter than the others due to manifold design or some such, id put it in that runner.

As for the intercooler, id say do it unintercooled, monitor your temps, and see how it works out.. As long as you give yourself a few inches around the charge pipe where its routed under the car, you can always plumb in a water/air intercooler there later and run the lines along the frame rail to a big heat exchanger in the front.

[turbovanman²]

They are the diesel guys on my diesel forum but sometimes their info is a bit off, too many cooks in the kitchen. They say the boost limit is 10 psi but really unsure why.

I was running an HX35 but now going to run an HY35, should help with boost and the low boost setting.

I will have 5-6 feet of tubing, 3" diameter so yeah, I'll guess I'll monitor it when done.

[Ondonti]

btw, what are you using for the oil return/pump?

[turbovanman²]

btw, what are you using for the oil return/pump?

Using a scavenge pump, designed for this purpose, :thumb:

http://www.turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/Base-Model_Pump/Base-Model_Pump.html

[srtlou]

I would get ridof the headers and wrap the exhaust and turbo

Turbos work off of the heat this is where alot of the rear mount guys go wrong and this will help the turbo spool faster

[turbovanman²]

I would get ridof the headers and wrap the exhaust and turbo

Turbos work off of the heat this is where alot of the rear mount guys go wrong and this will help the turbo spool faster

Not a chance, the headers help flow, the stock manifolds are god damn awful, I picked up some serious power putting the headers on, :thumb:

I am going to put the turbo right at the end of that collector outlet, its 3".

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/Diesel%20van%20stuff/CanonCamerapics-workcamera025.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/Diesel%20van%20stuff/CanonCamerapics-workcamera031.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/Diesel%20van%20stuff/CanonCamerapics-workcamera022.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/Diesel%20van%20stuff/CanonCamerapics-workcamera033.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/Diesel%20van%20stuff/CanonCamerapics-workcamera032.jpg

[srtlou]

i know the headers flow better but they will not help the turbo all the way back there headers diapate heat you should wrap them then. looks cool should be fun


water-injection will also help lower the egts

[turbovanman²]

i know the headers flow better but they will not help the turbo all the way back there headers diapate heat you should wrap them then. looks cool should be fun


water-injection will also help lower the egts

Yeah, it will fun, just need a bit more snap. I'll try it like this first and see what happens, wrapping them will be a royal PITA. :(

[mcsvt]

At the DV dyno day last year there was a 1500 Silverado with at 6.0L swap and a remote turbo putting out north of 500hp. His turbo was mounted just in front of the passenger rear tire and he had an IC in the front. I know it's not the same as your diesel, but the setup worked great for him and seems to spool pretty quick. So I'm IC yes.

[Vigo]

I think the turbo is going to work great right there! It's going to be a nice system!!

I also wouldnt worry about the wrap. The idea of turbos operating off heat is somewhat ridiculous to me. Turbos operate off a pressure differential. Heat and pressure are definitely related because of density, but if you were to take two identical turbo systems, one with hot air going into it and one with cool air, they would operate exactly the same if you sized the turbine section to compensate for the lower volume of air going through it.

I do agree that if you take the SAME turbo and move it from on the manifold to the end of the tailpipe, it will spool much slower, but since you are choosing your turbo from the beginning, heat is a red herring issue.. Just pick the right size turbo!

Feel free to prove me wrong.. :)

[srtlou]

A turbo is driven by heat and pressure differential ……….The higher the pressure and heat before the turbine wheel, and the lower the pressure and heat after the turbine wheel, The faster the turbo will spool.


A simple way to see how heat looks for cool air and drives a turbo is by looking at a turbine vent on a roof top.....
When not a breath of wind is in the air, But it is a warm day. You can see the turbine on the building spinning like crazy......This is because the attic is very hot and the hot air is looking for the cool air outside and driving the turbine

[Ondonti]

and velocity and exhaust pulses.

Pressure differential is really not needed to spool the turbo. The biggest hp setups have a tiny pressure differential and use the heat and velocity of exhaust gases to spin the turbo. Headers will retain the velocity of the exhaust gases and the exhaust pulses. Exhaust pulses are why twin scroll manifolds work so well.
Vigo you yourself said you don't really understand the idea of how turbos spool up so....

[turbovanman²]

Yep, it all plays a hand. Choosing the right size turbo is most of the battle, hence why rear mounted Camaro's and other setup's by STS work so well, they are sized properly.

I am using an HY35, so it should work nicely for my application, maybe a bit of lag but that's fine around town, :thumb:

[TurboRon25]

If you need the exhaust to last, don't wrap it.

Pressure differential causes flow -> velocity.

That roof vent isn't a good example. It's spinning because of air flow, not because the air is hot. The hot air is rising and trying to escape and that causes flow. If it were just trying to get some place cooler it would just fall to the floor where the cooler air is and everything would be the same temperature.

Ron

[RoadWarrior222]

i) The headers will help, putting a turbo right on top of the exhaust ports is better, but when you have to locate it as far away as makes for a decent header, then proper headers will be better.
ii) I think the headers will melt and drip away before the turbo sees 1200F right back there.
iii) If it's not driven for short trips, and gets a half hour run every day, I don't think the wrap will seriously shorten exhaust life, it's moisture related, if the moisture is driven off with daily full warm-ups it won't figure much. Also measures taken like exhaust paint, splash shielding, etc will help limit it.

[Ondonti]

If you need the exhaust to last, don't wrap it.

Pressure differential causes flow -> velocity.

That roof vent isn't a good example. It's spinning because of air flow, not because the air is hot. The hot air is rising and trying to escape and that causes flow. If it were just trying to get some place cooler it would just fall to the floor where the cooler air is and everything would be the same temperature.

Ron

Do more homework on the subject before sharing on the subject.

exhaust velocity is caused by the expanding gasses in the combustion chamber. Exhaust particles have mass therefore they retain their velocity until they "give it away" which is what happens in crappy log manifolds and high backpressure systems.

Pressure differential is just a measurement. By itself it is worthless information.

[rx2mazda]

exhaust velocity is caused by the expanding gasses in the combustion chamber. Exhaust particles have mass therefore they retain their velocity until they "give it away" which is what happens in crappy log manifolds and high backpressure systems.

Pressure differential is just a measurement. By itself it is worthless information.

EXACTLY!

The vent analogy is pointless in a automotive turbo application. Turbos don't just start spinning and creating boost because of pressure differentials. While the measurment does play a role in the big picture, its not what ultimately spins the turbo.

[Vigo]

You people are silly.

The roof vent isnt spinning because hot air is LOOKING for cool air, its spinning because hot air is LESS dense and is thus displaced by heavier, cooler air. WHAT?! yes, thats right, Cooler, heavier air flows into the attic through the soffit or vents around the perimeter, pushing the hotter, lighter air up. They say hot air goes up, but thats why. If the attic wasnt vented to allow the heavier air in, that fan would not spin.



The biggest hp setups have a tiny pressure differential and use the heat and velocity of exhaust gases to spin the turbo.

Biggest HP setups i guess are like going outside on a windy day, then. Like a stiff breeze across an open plain, which is created by a TINY pressure differential but moves a huge volume of air. And we run turbines off it, texas is famous for them. But its still caused by pressure differential and denser air displacing less dense air because of GRAVITY, not heat. Heat can only create movement by creating a pressure differential due to changing density. If heat just automatically moved towards cool air than attic fans would spin backwards and heat would go out the soffit.. but it doesnt, it goes up, because that movement is powered by GRAVITY pulling down on heavier air, not because heat is pushing or pulling anything.


Headers will retain the velocity of the exhaust gases and the exhaust pulses.

Thats what im saying.. Simon's header setup will make for a better turbo setup on the end of them than a nasty stock log manifold with a turbo on it because it will allow for directional velocity to be maintained and the air will have some momentum, which means less backpressure for the motor. But still, the only reason that exhaust is going towards the turbo at all is because of pressure differential.

The only reason air goes anywhere, EVER, is because of pressure differential EVERYWHERE, from one mm to the next mm, not just before and after the turbo. Pulses are just higher pressure air. Yeah, you dont want them to run into each other if you can avoid it, because that kills velocity at the point where they meet. Just like having 12v on both sides of a light bulb.. no differential, no movement.

But there will still be differential between that spot and AFTER the turbo, so of course nasty logs still work, they are just inefficient. You want to maximize the efficiency of the use of the energy that is in the exhaust.. and in my mind the headers on Simon's van do a better job of contributing to an efficient setup by managing pressure differential between the exhaust ports (i.e. not allowing for reversion and killing velocity) than it gives away by shedding heat before the turbo. So i still think heat is a red herring.

When did i ever say anything about measuring pressure differential? Its more than a measurement.. any time air MOVES, you are observing a pressure differential. You cant measure it in every single spot, but if a nice exhaust header has more velocity at the end of it from a given input than a nasty log manifold (probably in spite of a larger diameter outlet), its because its isolating all the pressure differentials from each other inside the manifold so that all the high pressure from each exhaust pulse sees is the low pressure in the collector or on the other side of the turbo and NOT the lower pressure from the exhaust port right next it, just like twin scroll turbine housings. Of course, the higher velocity makes it harder for the air mass to change directions and go back up another runner rather than going straight at the turbo, but that velocity was created by managing pressure differential between two areas to get air velocity in the desired direction.

[RoadWarrior222]

The pressure differential is only potential energy. It has to be converted to angular momentum and thus torque in the turbine to be useful. To develop the maximum potential out of it, you want to get maximum linear momentum of the exhaust gases, which are going to transfer their momentum to the turbine.

[Vigo]

The pressure differential is only potential energy. It has to be converted to angular momentum and thus torque in the turbine to be useful.

Well, if there is more pressure in front of the turbine than after it, this will happen in the turbine, because the turbine is a professionally designed piece that we are not building with no knowledge of science. Luckily, that part is hard to screw up. All we have to do is point air at it without bleeding off all the pressure with a huge leak, or by chilling the exhaust gas to the freezing point or some other ludicrous thing that would never happen..

IMO you can never shed enough heat in a well-designed header (that creates that maximum linear momentum of the exhaust gases) that it becomes inferior to a nasty log manifold just because the turbo is farther from the motor and the air powering the turbine has shed more heat. So to say you NEEED that heat to spin the turbo is just false.

And im not trying to crucify any one person here, i just get tired of people saying turbos run on heat to the point that rear-mount turbos 'dont work well'. If its designed properly, it works, because that heat is only ONE contributing factor out of many, and its not a big enough concern that you would want to spend dollars and hours wrapping up a dozen feet of pipes to retain some marginal amount when you're only trying to get a diesel van to get above 80 mph. :confused:

[srtlou]

i never said that rear-mount turbos 'dont work well' i am a big fan of them i was just trying to help to get that turbo to spool faster next turbo i put on i am just going to put it on my hood a let the air flow thur it sents the heat does not help spool it

heat is energy that was the point of the atic

[RoadWarrior222]

Yes the header should "lose" heat, no it shouldn't do it by shedding it to the air... apart from in one direction, by expansion of the gases all the way along the pipe, making velocity and momentum. Heat makes pressure, pressure makes heat, so letting heat just soak out of an exhaust system is just like drilling small holes in it.

[turbovanman²]

If you need the exhaust to last, don't wrap it.

Pressure differential causes flow -> velocity.
Ron

I agree, they will rot in a few years, :(


i) The headers will help, putting a turbo right on top of the exhaust ports is better, but when you have to locate it as far away as makes for a decent header, then proper headers will be better.
ii) I think the headers will melt and drip away before the turbo sees 1200F right back there.
iii) If it's not driven for short trips, and gets a half hour run every day, I don't think the wrap will seriously shorten exhaust life, it's moisture related, if the moisture is driven off with daily full warm-ups it won't figure much. Also measures taken like exhaust paint, splash shielding, etc will help limit it.

I wrapped the DP on my Caravan, after on year of DDing, it was rusted to hell, I won't wrap anything again unless its for a race only application.

AFter putting those headers on, you could feel the difference in exhaust coming out of the tailpipe, not to mention if you saw the stock manifolds, you'd cry. The difference in seat of the pants between those and the stock logs was huge. They won't melt at 1200, if so, then all our headers would also melt as our engines see 1700 deg? :confused: :eyebrows:



i never said that rear-mount turbos 'dont work well' i am a big fan of them i was just trying to help to get that turbo to spool faster next turbo i put on i am just going to put it on my hood a let the air flow thur it sents the heat does not help spool it

heat is energy that was the point of the atic

I know but sizing in a rear or remote mount is everything, of course you can't expect to stick an HE351 at the back and expect it to have no lag and vice versa.

[RoadWarrior222]

AFter putting those headers on, you could feel the difference in exhaust coming out of the tailpipe, not to mention if you saw the stock manifolds, you'd cry. The difference in seat of the pants between those and the stock logs was huge. They won't melt at 1200, if so, then all our headers would also melt as our engines see 1700 deg? :confused: :eyebrows:

I was merely meaning you'd have to have insane temps coming out of the motor, to see high temps at a turbo that's nearly in the next zipcode :D

[RoadWarrior222]

BTW you should be on the same rules as an N/A exhaust system for sizing the piping before the turbo, i.e. "There is such a thing as too big."

[Vigo]

i never said that rear-mount turbos 'dont work well' i am a big fan of them i was just trying to help to get that turbo to spool faster next turbo i put on i am just going to put it on my hood a let the air flow thur it sents the heat does not help spool it

Hehe, well hey like i said im not trying to flame anybody, i just wanna have a real discussion about heat.. A lot of posts i see are mostly regurtitation with nothing to back it up and i want to dive into it.

Btw, i like the variety of cars you posted in the other thread :). Nice collection.




Whatever there is to be said, id like to hear it.. im open to being educated, ive only said what i know, and what makes sense to me.. i can still lurn it behtter if yall bring on the info :)

[turbovanman²]

BTW you should be on the same rules as an N/A exhaust system for sizing the piping before the turbo, i.e. "There is such a thing as too big."

Yes, there is such a thing as too big, there are always tradeoff's, :eyebrows:

[Vigo]

I wouldnt want to go too big because when you have to transition it down to the smaller turbine inlet you're either gonna have to go with a $$$ long cone-shaped piece of pipe, or taper it down real quick which is gonna look like a wall at high air-speeds. : /

[ShadowBrad]

You said you were originally going to run an HX35 but decided to use the HY35 instead to help it spool better due to the remote mounting. What about since the HX35 is a twin-scroll turbine would running each cylinder bank of the engine into each scroll help with the spool up, or would it still spool to slowly due to the HX having a larger turbine and mounting it downstream away from the engine like that?

Also I had a question. On a diesel engine doesn't the EGTs drop when adding more airflow for the same amount of fuel(leaner) and they go up when increasing the fueling(richer) kind of like a turbine engine? I could have sworn I read somewhere that some diesels idle as lean as 60:1 AFR due to the way a diesel works and the fact that they aren't throttled. Or am I completely wrong about this?

Sorry if this doesn't make any sense. I'm only partially awake.

-brad

[RoadWarrior222]

Well rich and lean is relative to stoich. BUT diesels can run wayyyy leaner than stoich, stoich is actually around the hottest point, by the time you're a couple of points off it, you're getting cooler burns again. So, when in an excess air scenario, as in a diesel, then adding more fuel to make it richer, is approaching closer to stoich from the other side of the hump so it will get hotter. I think the hottest point in a gas engine is skewed slighty upwards from stoich because then the N2 starts to burn, but when you go significantly lean it's cooler again. The "OMG it's lean and burning valves" point is somewhere between 14.5 and 15.5, then at high boost but not so much in N/A apart from high comp ratios, you have to worry about it detonating, so if your running through stoich, and your valves are glowing orange, then you start detonating, it's baaad. however, if you fired up at 16.5:1 and had good ignition, the motor probably wouldn't get hot enough to start detonating, UNLESS you started to go "rich"...

[turbovanman²]

You said you were originally going to run an HX35 but decided to use the HY35 instead to help it spool better due to the remote mounting. What about since the HX35 is a twin-scroll turbine would running each cylinder bank of the engine into each scroll help with the spool up, or would it still spool to slowly due to the HX having a larger turbine and mounting it downstream away from the engine like that?

Also I had a question. On a diesel engine doesn't the EGTs drop when adding more airflow for the same amount of fuel(leaner) and they go up when increasing the fueling(richer) kind of like a turbine engine? I could have sworn I read somewhere that some diesels idle as lean as 60:1 AFR due to the way a diesel works and the fact that they aren't throttled. Or am I completely wrong about this?

Sorry if this doesn't make any sense. I'm only partially awake.

-brad

Not sure if the HX I have is a dual scroll but even if it was, I am not going to redo my exhaust, that collector I have should work nicely. The HX is a 12 cm housing, the HY is 9 cm and the same wheels so if the HY is too small, I'll switch exhaust housings, :thumb:

With a diesel, think backwards to a gas engine, there is no such thing as being too lean, you can lean it out so it barely runs and you won't do any damage but it will have NO power. Now start adding fuel and things get hairy, this is where you need an EGT gauge as if you add too much fuel and don't watch the EGT's, and they skyrocket, things go bad, FAST. Its a balancing act. N/A, you want a slight haze of black smoke at WOT, turbo, you tune with EGT's.

[boost geek]

[QUOTE=turbovanman;617675] The HX is a 12 cm housing, the HY is 9 cm and the same wheels so if the HY is too small, I'll switch exhaust housings, :thumb:
QUOTE]
If you go back to a 12, remember me...:eyebrows:

[turbovanman²]

If you go back to a 12, remember me...:eyebrows:

Took you long enough, :p

[Aries_Turbo]

dont think about heat and flow and pressure differential... think energy.

energy spins the turbine. if thats pressure differential, expanding hot gasses or whatever, its energy. keeping the heat in the pipe keeps the energy up till it hits the turbine. but if its going to kill the headers then forget it. maybe get them coated?

how do you bump up the fuel on that engine simon?

id weld a bung an inch from the head and then another at the collector on the last pipe before the turbo and see what the difference is.

im thinking that its going to get too cool back by the turbo for you to get an accurate EGT reading. plus if its raining, its going to be cooler. put it by the head and it will be more accurate.

so are you going up bump up the fuel and then add boost to cool it back down?

Brian

[MILKCARTON]

At the DV dyno day last year there was a 1500 Silverado with at 6.0L swap and a remote turbo putting out north of 500hp. His turbo was mounted just in front of the passenger rear tire and he had an IC in the front. I know it's not the same as your diesel, but the setup worked great for him and seems to spool pretty quick. So I'm IC yes.

I rode in a buddies avalanche yesterday, same setup as you just described, and I was completely impressed @ 7psi and the AWD launch at boost was SICK, he has a meth kit on his along with a fmic. It ran 13.40 @ 103 last year when he didnt have it figured out yet. I have seen 6.2's running 15 psi with the banks kits, so I say intercool it.

[Vigo]

I had a rear turbo Avalanche cut me off on the street in my dynasty and then fly off like i was standing still.. very embarassing :(

[turbovanman²]

dont think about heat and flow and pressure differential... think energy.

energy spins the turbine. if thats pressure differential, expanding hot gasses or whatever, its energy. keeping the heat in the pipe keeps the energy up till it hits the turbine. but if its going to kill the headers then forget it. maybe get them coated?

how do you bump up the fuel on that engine simon?

id weld a bung an inch from the head and then another at the collector on the last pipe before the turbo and see what the difference is.

im thinking that its going to get too cool back by the turbo for you to get an accurate EGT reading. plus if its raining, its going to be cooler. put it by the head and it will be more accurate.

so are you going up bump up the fuel and then add boost to cool it back down?

Brian

You turn the Injection Pump or IP up. I have a 6.5 pump in there already so its a bit rich now. You turn the boost up to where you want, then add fuel until you get the EGT reading, which is MAX of 1200 but being as its bone stock, I'll use 1100.



I rode in a buddies avalanche yesterday, same setup as you just described, and I was completely impressed @ 7psi and the AWD launch at boost was SICK, he has a meth kit on his along with a fmic. It ran 13.40 @ 103 last year when he didnt have it figured out yet. I have seen 6.2's running 15 psi with the banks kits, so I say intercool it.

They say 10 psi MAX on a stock compression 6.2, still not sure why when the 6.5 will take 20+ psi with a 2 point drop and no IC, :confused:

[MILKCARTON]

Both of the shop trucks at the place I used to work had banks systems on them, both 6.2's and both 15 psi. Let me know if you need parts for 6.2/6.5, I basically have endless supply.:thumb:

[Aries_Turbo]

you gonna intercool it simon?

brian

[turbovanman²]

Both of the shop trucks at the place I used to work had banks systems on them, both 6.2's and both 15 psi. Let me know if you need parts for 6.2/6.5, I basically have endless supply.:thumb:

Thanks for the offer and good to know about the 15 psi. I MIGHT drop the engine and put thicker head gaskets on and ARP studs.


you gonna intercool it simon?

brian

Not at first, I'll monitor the temps first.

[RoadWarrior222]

With the turbo probably running fairly cool and not transferring much heat across, and the induction piping having a long run in open airflow (Assuming some pillock didn't wire it up to the exhaust) then it should be a fairly cool charge already.

[TurboRon25]

Do more homework on the subject before sharing on the subject.

exhaust velocity is caused by the expanding gasses in the combustion chamber. Exhaust particles have mass therefore they retain their velocity until they "give it away" which is what happens in crappy log manifolds and high backpressure systems.

Pressure differential is just a measurement. By itself it is worthless information.

The thread may have moved on, but I don't see what you are saying I don't understand.

I think what you are trying to talk about is momentum and the kinetic energy of the exhaust. But where does this velocity (flow, movement, energy, speed, ...whatever) come from?

Pressure differential is more than just a measurement. If there was no difference in pressure, exhaust gases would never leave the cylinder. The exh-gasses move into the exh-manifold because it is a lower pressure than the expanded exhaust gasses cylinder. They move through the turbo into the down pipe because it is a lower pressure than the exh-manifold. It all leaves the exh-pipe and flows out to the world we live in because again, the exhaust pipe has higher pressure than the air around the car.


...and for the record I have never measured the difference in pressure anywhere in the exhaust of any of my cars, but somehow the exhaust leaves the cylinders and comes out the tail pipe. :confused:

Ron


EDIT: never mind. Looks like Vigo explained it to the educated people.

[RoadWarrior222]

For a fixed size orifice, higher pressure differential = more energy.
For a fixed amount of energy, higher pressure differential = smaller, more restrictive orifice.

So if you want to boast about running 60lb of boost, make a "blank" sheetmetal intake gasket and drill a 1/4" hole for each port.

[srtlou]

so whats the update on the setup

[turbovanman²]

so whats the update on the setup

What am I doing?

Hy35, no IC, egt probe at the manifold. That's as far as I've got, work has been super busy and have too many customer projects going on, so another couple weeks, I HOPE.

[turbovanman²]

Getting closer to doing this. Should I run a flex pipe and if so, before or after the turbo?

[Vigo]

I think the turbo is pretty heavy to hang off the end of some headers (may crack them?), so i would brace the turbo to the body and put the flex pipe between the headers and the turbo. Or instead of bracing it solid maybe just suspend it from the body but allow some movement in whatever you do.. just ideas.

[turbovanman²]

I am going to hang it off the body but the engine twists up and down, so I was thinking of the flex pipe before but then flex pipe doesn't twist that way, :o

[t3rse]

Good luck Simon...the non-pertinent commentary in this thread makes me want to vomit. You can always run a small IC under the truck if you need to.

[Vigo]

Maybe you actually would have vomited if you'd been here 2 months ago when it happened. :p

For the record, i am also saddened by WW2.

[turbovanman²]

What crack are you guys smoking?

Anyways, what about mounting the turbo so that the flex pipe actually works, so I was going to mount it left to right and have the exhaust pipe go straight in, so how about mounting it front to back and making the turbine inlet 90 deg? That would allow me to mount the turbo solidly and let the engine move? Sure exhaust efficiency drops a tad due to the exhaust having to turn but that shouldn't matter too much, :thumb:

[bfarroo]

Any way you could mount the turbo off the trans/block somehow. That way you don't have to worry about the flexing. I'd be really leery about mounting the turbo to the frame unless your running some really solid mounts on the engine/trans. Just seems like there would be to much movement for the flex pipe to accommodate. As far as the orientation of the turbo. mounting it front to back versus side to side would really come down to a packaging deal. What sucks with the turbo is the inlet to the discharge are 90 degrees apart so somewhere you'll probably need to have a 90. Would it be better in the exhaust side or the compressor side? I have no idea. I'd go with whatever looks easier. At least with a big van you have a lot of real estate to work with.

[t3rse]

Maybe you actually would have vomited if you'd been here 2 months ago when it happened. :p

For the record, i am also saddened by WW2.

You expect me to actually read? :yuck:

How are STS turbos mounted? From what I can find it looks like they hang them on the exhaust! ...with no solid chassis mounting.

edit: Hanging of the intake pipe?
http://www.neweraperformanceparts.com/Images/turbo.JPG

[turbovanman²]

Thanks for the pic, looks like they are just hanging it off the exhaust, with a flex pipe front and back, I'll have to lighten the pic to see if they really are using 2. I will do that then, just put some more hangers around the turbo and use flex pipe too. Those engines rotate the same as mine, looks like a GM truck, :nod:


Any way you could mount the turbo off the trans/block somehow. That way you don't have to worry about the flexing. I'd be really leery about mounting the turbo to the frame unless your running some really solid mounts on the engine/trans. Just seems like there would be to much movement for the flex pipe to accommodate. As far as the orientation of the turbo. mounting it front to back versus side to side would really come down to a packaging deal. What sucks with the turbo is the inlet to the discharge are 90 degrees apart so somewhere you'll probably need to have a 90. Would it be better in the exhaust side or the compressor side? I have no idea. I'd go with whatever looks easier. At least with a big van you have a lot of real estate to work with.

Ever looked under the hood/dog house of a GM van? :( Engine mounted turbo ain't gonna happen.

[Vigo]

Actually i think some vans have room to mount the turbo between the engine and the radiator if you do something with the radiator fans like slim fans or pushers in front.

But i still think rear mount is a better/easier solution, especially considering the very modest performance goals.

[black86glhs]

I would hook it up similar to that pic. Exhaust straight in and 90* bend on the outlet. Besides, you can add an intercooler if you want a little more A$$ later on. Plus you would be able to add a little more fuel after the cooler install.

Also, install a 4L80 in that darn thing too.:eyebrows:

[Vigo]

4l80 ftw

[turbovanman²]

Getting closer. Have the outlet flange, oil line check valve, T3 flange adapter and a v-band.

My last question, I figured I'd go 3" from the turbo to the intake but from looking at the pic t3rse and another guy say to go 2.5"? I don't think running 3" will cause extra lag plus it will cool the air faster.

Thoughts?

[RoadWarrior222]

Doing a back of envelope guesstimate, I get about 1/100 a second extra lag for 6ft of intake @ 3" vs 2.5"

So you'll probably only curse it if you get 15.01 in the quarter instead of 14.99 (2 shifts)... but the extra cooling and lower pumping loss probably makes that back plus a tad more.

[turbovanman²]

Ok, well next Saturday is the day, finally fed up with this van being so slow and having to drive it like a 2 stroke up hills. Around town it rocks, average 17 mpg with the turbo mods minus the turbo but average 12mpg on long trips with hills. I hope to get 20 mpg with the turbo.

So, I already have new injectors, turbo intake and headers, Dmax muffer and 3" exhaust, the setup will be-HX35 right after the collectors, Turbowork scavange pump, 3" to the intake, no IC and boost/egt gauge, and aiming for 10 psi and 1150 egt's. Thanks Shayne in advance, having him around will speed this up to an afternoon project. Going to try and find some flat, remove area's and do some 0-60 tests before and after with my G-Tech meter.

[RoadWarrior222]

Heh, hope the G-tech registers for the baseline tests. (BTW loaded a coupla apps on my android for that I haven't played with yet)

[turbovanman²]

I should see if my iPhone has an app too, lol.

[turbovanman²]

Still working on it, most of yesterday, last night and today, hit a few roadblocks but coming together. I totally f*cked up the exhaust but will redo that later, :mad:

[Vigo]

No pics?

[shayne]

long story...

[turbovanman²]

Ended up having to yank the motor and do the head gaskets, blew on the drive home, blessing in disguise as they had been leaking for along time and was planning a trip, saved me $1000's in tow bills or repair bills.

So far, very happy with it, should have done this years ago, still have some teething problems and need to install my EGT gauge, tried Saturday but the wiring wasn't long enough, :banghead:

I'll get the pics up later today.

[Reaper1]

Good lord! Talk about a resurrected project!! :O