Tricking Solenoids

[minigts]

I know I've asked this before, probably on turbododge.com, but how do you fool the solenoids that aren't being used anymore? I know it's something like running the solenoid signal wire to a 4 pin relay and power to another pin on the relay, but which ones? Anyone know or remember?

[minigts]

Nevermind, I found this and it worked. :)

http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/4912752/161001_Full.jpg

[89ShelbyGuy]

I thought you just use a Resistor of the same resistance of the solinod...

So, you would check the soilnod for an OHM reading...find that and go buy a resistor with the same reading...then just connect it to the plug end????

Thats what i was going to do with the boost and other unused sol. on my shelby so it wont throw a code...???

Tom

[minigts]

Well I have a fuse box now and not the fusible links, so I took two of the open spots for relays, ran the solenoid signal to post 86 and ran power to post 85 and it worked. :) Well it has worked so far, we'll see how the day goes. You can use a resistor, but I had all the stuff to do the relay so I did.

[shelbydave]

If the solenoid isn't used, what's the problem with leaving the wires connected and just not running vacuum lines to it?

[minigts]

If the solenoid isn't used, what's the problem with leaving the wires connected and just not running vacuum lines to it?

Well I removed all that stuff and the wires going over there. I don't have stuff in my engine bay I'm not using. :p I'm kinda stupid about that stuff, but if I ain't gonna use it, it ain't gonna be there. This did the trick. Only codes I'm getting now are for the A/C, 12 (until I crank it enough) and 53, which from what I understand is normal when running a custom cal.

[minigts]

Actually, I just checked my codes and realized that 37 (Baro-read) is coming up...that's not good. I don't remember getting that before though, interesting.

[shelbydave]

Well I removed all that stuff and the wires going over there. I don't have stuff in my engine bay I'm not using. :p I'm kinda stupid about that stuff, but if I ain't gonna use it, it ain't gonna be there. This did the trick. Only codes I'm getting now are for the A/C, 12 (until I crank it enough) and 53, which from what I understand is normal when running a custom cal.

Ahh... I understand... I'm still at the stage of just working bugs out of the stuff I cannabalized for mine...
I kinda wish I saw some of your work on the smec before I cut the hole in my firewall for the ECU wires....

[minigts]

Ahh... I understand... I'm still at the stage of just working bugs out of the stuff I cannabalized for mine...
I kinda wish I saw some of your work on the smec before I cut the hole in my firewall for the ECU wires....

What hole did you need to cut? There's the one on the bottom close to the passenger side and then the 40 way. I need a mental visual. :) Are you running something like an SDS or another stand alone system?

[shelbydave]

What hole did you need to cut? There's the one on the bottom close to the passenger side and then the 40 way. I need a mental visual. :) Are you running something like an SDS or another stand alone system?

No. Mine's an '83. Carbed. No ECU in the passenger kick panel. I had to cut that hole so I could use the harness and the ECU (like an '86). Had I known about the smec when I started, I would have tried to go with that type of wiring to avoid having to use the ECU in the passenger compartment.

Since in '83 all the stuff ran to the module next to the battery, a smec seems like it would have been easier to install, and look neater in the end.

[minigts]

No. Mine's an '83. Carbed. No ECU in the passenger kick panel. I had to cut that hole so I could use the harness and the ECU (like an '86). Had I known about the smec when I started, I would have tried to go with that type of wiring to avoid having to use the ECU in the passenger compartment.

Since in '83 all the stuff ran to the module next to the battery, a smec seems like it would have been easier to install, and look neater in the end.

I hear ya. Well if it makes you feel any better, I had to cover my wiring hole with a couple of stainless steel circles and used some SS allen head bolts to secure it, along with a gasket. Looks ok for the most part, so if you end up getting a SMEC, you could just switch it all over. Granted, that is a pain and THE only reason I would do it again would be to clean up the bay a little more. I have a harness sitting in my garage ready to be worked on, but have about zero desire to pick that project up at this time. :)

I'll take a picture of it from the engine bay so you can see what I did. You can't even see it from inside the car unless you stick your head in the floor board and even then it is covered mostly by carpet.

[Reeves]

I thought you just use a Resistor of the same resistance of the solinod...

So, you would check the soilnod for an OHM reading...find that and go buy a resistor with the same reading...then just connect it to the plug end????

Thats what i was going to do with the boost and other unused sol. on my shelby so it wont throw a code...???

Tom

Our solenoids are 50 ohm. It takes a hell of a power resistor to dissipate that kind of power (V=IR so I = V/R so I = 13.6V/50ohm so I = 0.3A) (P=IV so P = 0.3A x 13.6V so P = 4.08W so you would need, http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=50%20ohm%20resistor&origkw=50%20ohm%20resistor&sr=1 )

The above link is the resistor that we used to use right at the computer so we could eliminate the wiring and solenoids.

Then we figured out that the computer just needed to see some resistance, and not the full 50ohm. We started using 4.7Kohm 1/2 watt resistors and they worked to hide the codes. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062328

Then, we figured out how to just mask the codes in the cals and ditch all the wiring and resistors! :clap:

[minigts]

Our solenoids are 50 ohm. It takes a hell of a power resistor to dissipate that kind of power (V=IR so I = V/R so I = 13.6V/50ohm so I = 0.3A) (P=IV so P = 0.3A x 13.6V so P = 4.08W so you would need, http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=50%20ohm%20resistor&origkw=50%20ohm%20resistor&sr=1 )

The above link is the resistor that we used to use right at the computer so we could eliminate the wiring and solenoids.

Then we figured out that the computer just needed to see some resistance, and not the full 50ohm. We started using 4.7Kohm 1/2 watt resistors and they worked to hide the codes. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062328

Then, we figured out how to just mask the codes in the cals and ditch all the wiring and resistors! :clap:

Dude, speak Engrish! What is all that technical mumbo jumbo. hehe I think someone told me a while back I could use the relay. Kevin was doing my cal with a compiler that didn't have the masking options so I opted to go the route with the relays. Originally I kept the wires to do this, but later found out I could use code. But since we didn't use a program that allowed for it, I went with the relays. So far so good. I have 20 amp fuse in line so if anything goes awry, I should be covered...hopefully. :p I doubt it will do anything if it didn't when I started the car this morning.

[Reeves]

Dude, speak Engrish! What is all that technical mumbo jumbo. hehe I think someone told me a while back I could use the relay. Kevin was doing my cal with a compiler that didn't have the masking options so I opted to go the route with the relays. Originally I kept the wires to do this, but later found out I could use code. But since we didn't use a program that allowed for it, I went with the relays. So far so good. I have 20 amp fuse in line so if anything goes awry, I should be covered...hopefully. :p I doubt it will do anything if it didn't when I started the car this morning.

I don't understand what you are doing with a relay :confused2:

[black86glhs]

I don't understand what you are doing with a relay :confused2:The relay takes place of the solenoid James, if I deciphered his jargon correctly. Like you said, it only needs to see some resistance in the circuit.:thumb:

[minigts]

From what I can comprehend, putting 12v to the one post will do the same as it does with the solenoid. The solenoid has 12v going into it with the blue wire, the other is a signal back to the SMEC. The relay basically allows voltage to go through to the signal wire, but not a full 12v. This is how I understand it to be. It more or less creates resistance in the line similar to that of an actual resistor. For me it works out well because I have a fuse box and places for the relays. For others, it would probably make more sense to just put an in-line resistor from a power source to the signal wire. I almost went this route but found I could do the relay trick.

[black86glhs]

From what I can comprehend, putting 12v to the one post will do the same as it does with the solenoid. The solenoid has 12v going into it with the blue wire, the other is a signal back to the SMEC. The relay basically allows voltage to go through to the signal wire, but not a full 12v. This is how I understand it to be. It more or less creates resistance in the line similar to that of an actual resistor. For me it works out well because I have a fuse box and places for the relays. For others, it would probably make more sense to just put an in-line resistor from a power source to the signal wire. I almost went this route but found I could do the relay trick.So what my post above yours said is basically the same you sputtered on about, right Jon....LOL!!:eyebrows::)

[minigts]

So what my post above yours said is basically the same you sputtered on about, right Jon....LOL!!:eyebrows::)

LOL something like that. :) Again, I haven't tested this for resistance so I have NO idea how much voltage is coming across or how much resistance is there. I probably should. :p

[black86glhs]

LOL something like that. :) Again, I haven't tested this for resistance so I have NO idea how much voltage is coming across or how much resistance is there. I probably should. :pAs long as it works and you like it, that is all that matters.:hail::clap:

[Reeves]

So you are not using the relay as a relay. You are using the coil of a relay for the resistance. Gotcha. Way easier to use a resistor right at the computer.

[minigts]

I'm going to take some readings and some pictures when I get home. I'll post the results later. If I use Reeve's equation I should be able to determine exactly how much resistance I should have and do have. THAT or maybe I'll just drink a beer and burp the alphabet. Whichever is easiest.

[Reeves]

Just remove the relay and check resistance between 85 and 86. This is your coil.

You picture you posted with a wiring diagram is not correct in anyway. The standard is 85 and 86 is the coil. 30 is the common and 87 is the N.O. contact and 87a is the N.C. contact.

[minigts]

Just remove the relay and check resistance between 85 and 86. This is your coil.

You picture you posted with a wiring diagram is not correct in anyway. The standard is 85 and 86 is the coil. 30 is the common and 87 is the N.O. contact and 87a is the N.C. contact.

I have it hooked up with power to 85 and the signal to 86. Is this wrong? If so, which pins should I use? Just checking. So far nothing bad has happened, but I don't want this to come back and bite me. :$

[Reeves]

Sounds like you have it hooked up correct.

[minigts]

Here is a view of the fuse box from the bottom. The two relays on the right at the bottom are for the solenoid sensors. Power runs from a strip, fused and then to post 85 with the signal on post 86 of the relay.

http://minigts.com/car/electrical/fusebox/relays.jpg

These last three have the solenoids on the top right.

http://minigts.com/car/electrical/fusebox/relays2.jpg

http://minigts.com/car/electrical/fusebox/relays3.jpg

http://minigts.com/car/electrical/fusebox/relays4.jpg

[badandy]

Holly rats nest Batman!

Ummm, why aren't you just turning off the solenoids in Turbonator?...and stuff.

[minigts]

Holly rats nest Batman!

Ummm, why aren't you just turning off the solenoids in Turbonator?...and stuff.

It's not a rat's nest! Actually, that is the best I could get it at the time. I was trying to just get the car running, but this box houses all my relays and fuses, replacing the fusible links and standard relays in our cars. And we were using Turbonator but couldn't get a good tune, so we tried Ladybug. Unfortunately, you have to modify the binary in Ladybug to turn the solenoids off. This is something I had planned to do a while back, just never got around to it. Because we couldn't turn the features off in Ladybug, I decided to go ahead and hook the relays up. So far so good. :)