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Shadow
01-23-2010, 04:50 PM
We've been preparing a Shelby charger for a TIII transplant (amoungst other things) and I thought I'd share some of the things we'll be doing. There are a # of things that need to be corrected when building a powerfull L-body and most of them are not well documented.

This will not be an all-out build by any means, just a nice 350+WHP pump gas L-body that should be a fun driver. The owner Glenn, a good friend of mine, may autocross the car, but will deff take it down the 1/4 to see how it goes. Should be a solid 11 sec full bodied street cruiser!

Will be looking to you TIII guys for some advice on what we should/shouldn't mess with on the mtr. I'll see if I can get some pics up soon.:eyebrows:

rob

Shadow
01-23-2010, 06:00 PM
Couple pics of the front cradle and under the wheel wells. We weld 1/8th " steel inserts to solidify the entire front lower cradle and solid seem weld the front corners and the entire seem under the wheel well and strut towers.

Directconnection
01-23-2010, 06:09 PM
I'll be watching on the T-III buildup :thumb:

I like the idea of reinforcing the frame and rad support. I do have one Q: sometimes spot welding works better, as it allows the frame and sheetmetal to flex. If too rigid, that's how cracks can develop. I'm sure you are aware of this.... but I'd like to know how much to go with and what has worked for others.

iTurbo
01-23-2010, 06:13 PM
Good stuff, can't wait to see more. I myself am building a TIII Omni but I'm only going for 300 WHP tops and starting off at stock power levels. I never really though about doing anything to the frame like you guys have done. I already had the K-frame fully seam welded so maybe I should look into that, especially the strut towers and radiator support.

turbovanman²
01-23-2010, 06:19 PM
Looks good, :thumb:

For TIII advice, not much really to give, its just like a regular engine, but makes more power, :evil:

If its quiet, just reuse the lifters, get adjustable cam gears, look for cam pitting, cracked head, bottom end is normal TM stuff.

iTurbo
01-23-2010, 06:29 PM
It's not as easy to fit the TIII in an L-body engine bay. The cam gears run into the L-body passenger side motor mount. You can't run the serpentine belt setup because the bay is narrower, so you have to improvise there. Very limited selection of radiators that will fit due to the intake manifold sticking out too far; even a custom intake isn't going to help much there. I would like to see others solutions to these problems. I have some of them ironed out on my own car; others I just haven't got that far with it yet.

rx2mazda
01-23-2010, 06:54 PM
looks good Rob! What is the approx. debut date?

Shadow
01-23-2010, 09:01 PM
looks good Rob! What is the approx. debut date?

Believe it or not, I'm hoping to have this baby rolling by mid summer.

Shadow
01-23-2010, 09:09 PM
I'll be watching on the T-III buildup :thumb:

I like the idea of reinforcing the frame and rad support. I do have one Q: sometimes spot welding works better, as it allows the frame and sheetmetal to flex. If too rigid, that's how cracks can develop. I'm sure you are aware of this.... but I'd like to know how much to go with and what has worked for others.

I've been welding the seams solid (one side only) for about 10 years now. I should take a good look at the first L-body I did like this as it will be at the shop some time this summer. So far I haven't seen any ill effect.

Looks good, :thumb:

For TIII advice, not much really to give, its just like a regular engine, but makes more power, :evil:

If its quiet, just reuse the lifters, get adjustable cam gears, look for cam pitting, cracked head, bottom end is normal TM stuff.

I was reffering more to the larger oil pump gear, different timing belt route, and the hand full of other mods that ppl were talking about when running one of these mtrs. Weather to go with the spring relief retainers and upgrade lifters ect.


It's not as easy to fit the TIII in an L-body engine bay. The cam gears run into the L-body passenger side motor mount. You can't run the serpentine belt setup because the bay is narrower, so you have to improvise there. Very limited selection of radiators that will fit due to the intake manifold sticking out too far; even a custom intake isn't going to help much there. I would like to see others solutions to these problems. I have some of them ironed out on my own car; others I just haven't got that far with it yet.

We "notched" the frame on the pass side so that the mtr fits like it was from the factory. The serp belt will work and you can change it "in car" as if it were any other TIII. This car is also going to be running air and as many options as it can.

Turbo3Iroc
01-24-2010, 01:48 AM
Wow if that all works I think you will have the first TIII L body with a serp belt and a/c. :clap:

Pat
01-24-2010, 08:53 AM
Wow if that all works I think you will have the first TIII L body with a serp belt and a/c. :clap:

I think Alan's Rampage was a frame notch job also. I recall asking him at one point what he did for the PS pump and him explaining the PO notched the frame and used all the T-III stuff.

Check with Alan if you want any info on how his car is set up.

Directconnection
01-24-2010, 09:42 AM
I think Alan's Rampage was a frame notch job also. I recall asking him at one point what he did for the PS pump and him explaining the PO notched the frame and used all the T-III stuff.

Check with Alan if you want any info on how his car is set up.

How about for a P-body? No fitment issues then?

Pat
01-24-2010, 11:30 AM
How about for a P-body? No fitment issues then?

Nope, fits like it should have been in there in the first place.

The only mod necessary was minor grinding on the early passenger side mount bracket (mine is an '88) to clear the intake cam gear.

2.216VTurbo
01-24-2010, 11:34 AM
Wow if that all works I think you will have the first TIII L body with a serp belt and a/c. :clap:

Did you mean *working* AC:o I still have to fab up the custom L body AC lines, it's on the list but so are 100 other things. It's tight even with the notch tho, the PS pump pulley is maybe 1/4" from the frame rail.

Shadow
01-24-2010, 11:45 AM
Did you mean *working* AC:o I still have to fab up the custom L body AC lines, it's on the list but so are 100 other things. It's tight even with the notch tho, the PS pump pulley is maybe 1/4" from the frame rail.

Sounds very close to what we did. There's Just enough room to change the belt without disturbing anything.

iTurbo
01-24-2010, 12:53 PM
I wish I could run the serpentine belt setup, but I'll be running modified 8v stuff and converting to the ZF p/s pump. I had the serp belt setup mocked up in my Omni and it was way too close for my liking and I couldn't bring myself to cut the car's frame. I think I'm going to need a custom pressure line because the L-bodies never came with ZF pump from the factory as far as I know, and a K-based car line would be too long.

Modifying the motor mount bracket for the intake cam gear seems straightforward, but is there any way of removing the cam gear once the head is on, or does the motor mount bracket have to be entirely disassembled?

For a radiator I found that a GLHS unit just barely fits with a very low profile fan (14" Derale Tornado). I had a big NPR intercooler in the car before but there is no way that is going to fit with the intake manifold. If there is any hope for me to keep that IC I may have to get a Scirocco radiator which others seem to use with success.

Shadow
01-24-2010, 02:01 PM
I wish I could run the serpentine belt setup, but I'll be running modified 8v stuff and converting to the ZF p/s pump. I had the serp belt setup mocked up in my Omni and it was way too close for my liking and I couldn't bring myself to cut the car's frame. I think I'm going to need a custom pressure line because the L-bodies never came with ZF pump from the factory as far as I know, and a K-based car line would be too long.

Modifying the motor mount bracket for the intake cam gear seems straightforward, but is there any way of removing the cam gear once the head is on, or does the motor mount bracket have to be entirely disassembled?

For a radiator I found that a GLHS unit just barely fits with a very low profile fan (14" Derale Tornado). I had a big NPR intercooler in the car before but there is no way that is going to fit with the intake manifold. If there is any hope for me to keep that IC I may have to get a Scirocco radiator which others seem to use with success.

Everything is a trade-off. We were fully capable of modifying the frame while at the same time making it 10X stronger than it ever was. A very simple solution that now allows everything to work without a lot of messing around with other parts. I can understand that some would be "uncomfortable" doing this.

The Scirocco rad is a nice fit. You can run it right underneath the cradle and free up a ton of space in front of the mtr. :thumb:

turbovanman²
01-24-2010, 03:14 PM
Nope, fits like it should have been in there in the first place.

The only mod necessary was minor grinding on the early passenger side mount bracket (mine is an '88) to clear the intake cam gear.

Yeah, the TIII bracket is notched, I found that one out the hard way, painted my 8 valve, go to put it on, wouldn't clear, GRRRRRRRRRR. :mad:


I wish I could run the serpentine belt setup, but I'll be running modified 8v stuff and converting to the ZF p/s pump. I had the serp belt setup mocked up in my Omni and it was way too close for my liking and I couldn't bring myself to cut the car's frame. I think I'm going to need a custom pressure line because the L-bodies never came with ZF pump from the factory as far as I know, and a K-based car line would be too long.

Just buy a new one and have a hydraulic shop remake it shorter.


Modifying the motor mount bracket for the intake cam gear seems straightforward, but is there any way of removing the cam gear once the head is on, or does the motor mount bracket have to be entirely disassembled?



That's the deal on all TIII motors, I can't get mine off without removing the engine bracket.

Turbo3Iroc
01-24-2010, 10:17 PM
Did you mean *working* AC:o I still have to fab up the custom L body AC lines, it's on the list but so are 100 other things. It's tight even with the notch tho, the PS pump pulley is maybe 1/4" from the frame rail.

Yes, what is A/C if it doesn't work? haha. I didn't know your car had a serp belt. Props to you.

Shadow
01-24-2010, 10:42 PM
Yes, what is A/C if it doesn't work?

Two sixty air! :D

cordes
01-24-2010, 10:50 PM
I will follow this project with great interest. Thanks for taking the time to post the pics.

TheCanadian007
01-25-2010, 02:45 PM
Great work, Rob! What other bracing is needed on Turbo'd L-body vehicles? What gauge metal did you use to box the rad support in?

Shadow
01-25-2010, 04:03 PM
I will follow this project with great interest. Thanks for taking the time to post the pics.

Just happy to get a log going on something. I think it's a great idea to have a section for this, it was just too late for my own Charger as it's already built.


Great work, Rob! What other bracing is needed on Turbo'd L-body vehicles? What gauge metal did you use to box the rad support in?

1/8th inch thick galvanized plate steel. This is all I've done to the chassis and it's worked well. If your really launching hard on slicks, with a solid bobble, you might want to consider welding an extra plate of steel below the crossmember. The Charger is slowly pushing the whole center of the crossmember down. (around 1/2-3/4" so far)

TheCanadian007
01-25-2010, 06:00 PM
Wow! I wouldn't have thought the thick metal on the crossmember would deform that much.

Have you tried making diagonal braces going from the fender to the upper rad support (Much like what is seen on the older Camaros / Mustangs) or perhaps fabricating a brace that ties the control arms together? (Bolts to the front 'nut' on the control arms. I believe Johnny from PolyBushings has something similar on his auto-x Omni...)

Cheers, TheCanadian

Shadow
01-25-2010, 09:24 PM
Wow! I wouldn't have thought the thick metal on the crossmember would deform that much.

I launch the car pretty hard sometimes!:eyebrows:


Have you tried making diagonal braces going from the fender to the upper rad support (Much like what is seen on the older Camaros / Mustangs) or perhaps fabricating a brace that ties the control arms together? (Bolts to the front 'nut' on the control arms. I believe Johnny from PolyBushings has something similar on his auto-x Omni...)

Cheers, TheCanadian

The car launches flawlessly and smooth.....no wheel hop. Not looking to mess with anything else unless I find a need to do so. I haven't even run a strut brace yet.

rich tideswell
01-25-2010, 10:47 PM
Before you go notching the frame, have you thought about using an electric power steering pump? i know the new gm 3.5l v6 has one. could probably mount it in the cowl

Shadow
01-26-2010, 03:40 PM
Before you go notching the frame, have you thought about using an electric power steering pump? i know the new gm 3.5l v6 has one. could probably mount it in the cowl

For the shear simplicity of "notching the frame and everything works", I really haven't given any other options much thought. We (Glenn, myself and Brent) all agree that this is the most simple solution, with no downside. :)

Shadow
01-29-2010, 10:00 PM
Gonna order some Ti retainers from FWD to lighten the spring preasure on the V/T. The mtr itself is in very nice condition. Under 50,000 miles and the head/top end is in the best shape I've ever seen! This is the first TIII I've pulled apart that still had ALL of the lifters "tight" in the rockers. (usually at least a couple fall right out)

Other than that, I think we're going to do a little port work, head studs with stock gasket, drop the B/S and put in a nice windage tray, do the altered timing belt routing, maybe some adj cam gears and call it a day. I'll see if I can get some pics of the mtr up soon. :)

iTurbo
01-30-2010, 03:15 PM
Are you guys running the Scirocco radiator? I'm seriously thinking of ordering one but not sure what to get. They have nice 3" thick ones complete with dual fan setups/shrouds...not sure if any of that would even fit though. At 13" high it looks like they could duck under the intake runners and possibly allow me to keep the npr intercooler. Want to keep it because it fits the car so nice other than the intake clearance issue. This is actually the last major hurdle for me, otherwise I'm stuck with the GLHS setup for now.

I'm doing a lot of the same mods. Got a ported TIII head and manifolds, Ti retainers, and already sent the brackets off to Jackson for the idler mod. Turbo is just a little 60 trim t3 for now.

Shadow
01-30-2010, 10:14 PM
Are you guys running the Scirocco radiator? I'm seriously thinking of ordering one but not sure what to get. They have nice 3" thick ones complete with dual fan setups/shrouds...not sure if any of that would even fit though. At 13" high it looks like they could duck under the intake runners and possibly allow me to keep the npr intercooler. Want to keep it because it fits the car so nice other than the intake clearance issue. This is actually the last major hurdle for me, otherwise I'm stuck with the GLHS setup for now.

I'm doing a lot of the same mods. Got a ported TIII head and manifolds, Ti retainers, and already sent the brackets off to Jackson for the idler mod. Turbo is just a little 60 trim t3 for now.

Prob going to do the same rad that I'm running in my Charger, the griffin "scirocco" style and run it right under the cradle. (I really like how much room it frees up in front of the mtr) Also looking at the HE351 turbo for some nice pump gas #'s.

rx2mazda
01-30-2010, 10:33 PM
I'm also gonna be running the same rad in my GLHT.

iTurbo
01-30-2010, 11:00 PM
Awesome thanks. The Griffin radiators do look nice and they even have one with the i/o on the driver side which looks like it would be easier to incorporate. Lookin at the 22x13x2 unit for my car.

I'm not sure about the filler neck though. Should I get it with or without? It will be mounted down low probably sitting down low just underneath the NPR i/o if I can get this to work. If I get it without the filler neck do I have to get a pressure capable reservoir and mount it up high with a cap on that instead?? Sorry for the newb question but I've always run stock radiators before.

Shadow
01-31-2010, 12:15 PM
Awesome thanks. The Griffin radiators do look nice and they even have one with the i/o on the driver side which looks like it would be easier to incorporate. Lookin at the 22x13x2 unit for my car.

I'm not sure about the filler neck though. Should I get it with or without? It will be mounted down low probably sitting down low just underneath the NPR i/o if I can get this to work. If I get it without the filler neck do I have to get a pressure capable reservoir and mount it up high with a cap on that instead?? Sorry for the newb question but I've always run stock radiators before.

I'll try and take some pics of my Charger this week. I bolted mine down to the lower cradle with the 2 lower mounts that come on the rad. The filler neck is on the driver side and low enough that I can open and fill it without problems.

CDNTurboZ
01-31-2010, 12:38 PM
I remember five years ago going to the shop and seeing that car just sitting there, glad to hear that its coming together finally !

Edit: We really have to get a meet going this summer..

Shadow
01-31-2010, 12:58 PM
I remember five years ago going to the shop and seeing that car just sitting there, glad to hear that its coming together finally !

Edit: We really have to get a meet going this summer..

LOL I should post some pics of when we first brought it down! With everything else going on in the shop, it's been a squeeze to slowly get it to this stage. Things should move along nicely now!

Deff going to call a TD meet this summer for sure! Should be 3-4 very minty L-bodies cruising around, including this TIII and a very scary 2.4! lol :D

CDNTurboZ
01-31-2010, 01:00 PM
very scary 2.4! lol :D

The 2.4 car is almost done?:D That is one that I really want to see complete

Shadow
01-31-2010, 01:16 PM
The 2.4 car is almost done?:D That is one that I really want to see complete

SHHH.....We'll take that one, one step at a time, but yeh, we'll be back on it soon. :eyebrows:

Some pics of Glenn's car when we first brought it down.

CDNTurboZ
01-31-2010, 03:02 PM
Seeing those pics makes me want to find another one to redo LOL

Shadow
01-31-2010, 03:45 PM
Seeing those pics makes me want to find another one to redo LOL

You were smart to start with a rust free car. There is a ton of work and time involved in fixing a car right when there is a lot of rust preasent. This one was borderline, but we had the rust free parts and we fixed'er! :thumb:

rx2mazda
01-31-2010, 05:58 PM
There is a ton of work and time involved in fixing a car right when there is a lot of rust preasent.

I found that out over the last two weeks messing with my GHLT. My car has very little rust but the little stuff that is there took more time than I would have thought to fix right. Cleaning, scraping, cleaning, brushing, cleaning, grinding, cleaning, cutting, cleaning, welding.....notice a trend? lol. Very time consuming so, I hope I never have to do it again.

Lotashelbys
02-05-2010, 03:26 AM
Hey Rob
If you have any TIII engine ?s feel free to PM me. Good luck on the car a TIII with an HE351 is ridiculous:D

Shadow
02-06-2010, 12:08 PM
Hey Rob
If you have any TIII engine ?s feel free to PM me. Good luck on the car a TIII with an HE351 is ridiculous:D

Thanks, and yah, the 351 is fast becoming my favorite street/strip turbo! :nod:

turbovanman²
02-06-2010, 07:37 PM
Awesome project, :amen:



You were smart to start with a rust free car. There is a ton of work and time involved in fixing a car right when there is a lot of rust preasent. This one was borderline, but we had the rust free parts and we fixed'er! :thumb:

Trouble is as you know, finding a rust free car is hard or damn near impossible unless paying too much money for it, :o

Shadow
02-06-2010, 09:17 PM
Awesome project, :amen:




Trouble is as you know, finding a rust free car is hard or damn near impossible unless paying too much money for it, :o

I hear ya, and it's not like we didn't try! Fortunatly the "hard work" is done and we're on to the fun stuff! Some shots of panels that got replaced.

Shadow
02-08-2010, 08:54 PM
Glenn was out on the wknd and we dropped the mtr in to get a rough idea of how things looked. I was thinking the turbo would be pretty tight, but it looks like we might get away with a 1/4" massaging of the firewall. I have to admitt, there's a certain "mystique" seeing a Lotus 16v in an L-body! :eyebrows:

rx2mazda
02-08-2010, 08:59 PM
Glenn was out on the wknd and we dropped the mtr in to get a rough idea of how things looked. I was thinking the turbo would be pretty tight, but it looks like we might get away with a 1/4" massaging of the firewall. I have to admitt, there's a certain "mystique" seeing a Lotus 16v in an L-body! :eyebrows:

Nice, can't wait to have mine in! Can I get some shots of the turbo to firewall clearance please? Is he running a Holset or other? I have to admit, TIII L-body's look mean.....:amen:

Shadow
02-08-2010, 09:29 PM
Nice, can't wait to have mine in! Can I get some shots of the turbo to firewall clearance please? Is he running a Holset or other? I have to admit, TIII L-body's look mean.....:amen:

Didn't take any shots of the turbo....yet. We just had time to hold it up to the flange and eye-ball it. We took the front mount brkt off while the car was being media blasted. I need to dig it up so I can get the mtr sitting right before I know how the firewall to turbo clearance will be. Right now it looks like it's going to just touch, so a nice little rubber mallot persuasion should fix things up just dandy! :)

rx2mazda
02-08-2010, 09:33 PM
That mock-up was with the holset right? if so, sweet news!

EDIT: guess i need to buy some short oil filters:D

Shadow
02-08-2010, 11:31 PM
That mock-up was with the holset right? if so, sweet news!

EDIT: guess i need to buy some short oil filters:D

Yes, HE351. I'll post some pics tomorrow.

rx2mazda
02-08-2010, 11:34 PM
Merci beaucoup! :D

2.216VTurbo
02-09-2010, 11:24 AM
I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how you got SO MUCH room in the front:confused2: I think when it rotates forward it's gonna eat up some of that room between the IN mani and core support. Prolly help with the turbo room tho:) Keep the build pics coming please:eyebrows:

rx2mazda
02-09-2010, 01:57 PM
I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how you got SO MUCH room in the front:confused2: I think when it rotates forward it's gonna eat up some of that room between the IN mani and core support. Prolly help with the turbo room tho:) Keep the build pics coming please:eyebrows:

So much rooom? You drinking again Alan?:p With the stock rad in there there would be almost no room as it sit out in those radiator brackets. Since he's running the Scirrocco rad that sit under the support he should have a "decent" bit of space(hoping at least, so I can have room for my big plenum intake). I know a guy in VA with a TIII Charger with a Holset351 and he did NO mods to the firewall:clap:

Shadow
02-09-2010, 03:38 PM
I know a guy in VA with a TIII Charger with a Holset351 and he did NO mods to the firewall:clap:

Do tell. I was thinking about shaving some material off the turbine housing flange, that sucker looks thick! Could prob gain 1/8th.

2.216VTurbo
02-09-2010, 06:17 PM
So much rooom? You drinking again Alan?:p With the stock rad in there there would be almost no room as it sit out in those radiator brackets. Since he's running the Scirrocco rad that sit under the support he should have a "decent" bit of space(hoping at least, so I can have room for my big plenum intake). I know a guy in VA with a TIII Charger with a Holset351 and he did NO mods to the firewall:clap:


I'll snap a pic of the Rampage with a strait edge laid where my core support *used* to be, you'll see how close it is (was). Custom front and trans mounts in Rampage RT but still...

BTW Shadow, was there a separate thread on the TIII Shadow sitting right next to the Charger that I missed??:confused2: Thought you were an L body guy:D

rx2mazda
02-09-2010, 06:32 PM
Do tell. I was thinking about shaving some material off the turbine housing flange, that sucker looks thick! Could prob gain 1/8th.

I will snap some pics when I go to his house here soon. He's selling me a manual rack and coupler and trans mount. Now only if it would stop snowing!:mad:

Shadow
02-09-2010, 08:46 PM
BTW Shadow, was there a separate thread on the TIII Shadow sitting right next to the Charger that I missed??:confused2: Thought you were an L body guy:D

Ha, that's actually a 91 Spirit R/T. Just in for a little paint make-over. :)
I seem to be somewhat of an L-body guy, but most of my friends/customers drive everything but! lol :D

Shadow
02-09-2010, 09:23 PM
I will snap some pics when I go to his house here soon. He's selling me a manual rack and coupler and trans mount. Now only if it would stop snowing!:mad:

When you told me about an HE351 TIII L-body with no firewall mods I became even more curious as to how this would all pan out. That, and once I realized that I hadn't "lost" the front mount brkt, I just put it somewhere that I would know where it is, I stopped looking for it and found it quite easily! :lol:

So, put in the mount, bolted up the turbo and ALACAZAM! Instant firewall clearance.....no massaging neccesary. :eyebrows:

cordes
02-09-2010, 10:20 PM
It is great to hear that you won't need to modify the firewall at all. I would personally hate to beat the firewall into submission.

Lotashelbys
02-09-2010, 10:43 PM
I was thinking about shaving some material off the turbine housing flange, that sucker looks thick! Could prob gain 1/8th.

You can do that actually. The HY35W off the 03-04s has the same turbine housing except the flange is thinner. Found that out by setting them side by side......

Shadow
02-09-2010, 11:53 PM
It is great to hear that you won't need to modify the firewall at all. I would personally hate to beat the firewall into submission.

It would only have been some light rubber mallet blows. I did it to My own Charger and you can't even tell. ;) Although, the Holset on my Charger sits a lot higher than a TIII, so I massaged the whole area casually.


You can do that actually. The HY35W off the 03-04s has the same turbine housing except the flange is thinner. Found that out by setting them side by side......

GTK, your talking about the HE341, right? (ppl call them HY35's)

2.216VTurbo
02-10-2010, 12:37 AM
Now can we see the new pic of the FRONT of the motor so Carroll can eat his words:p Picked up a bunch of room at the firewall when the front mount went in eh? Unless the engine bay *grew* it had to come from somewhere;)

Lotashelbys
02-10-2010, 01:13 AM
GTK, your talking about the HE341, right? (ppl call them HY35's)

Ya I have heard them called that too. Dodge and Holset both call them the HY35W everytime I have seen them listed tho.

Shadow
02-10-2010, 11:17 AM
Now can we see the new pic of the FRONT of the motor so Carroll can eat his words:p Picked up a bunch of room at the firewall when the front mount went in eh? Unless the engine bay *grew* it had to come from somewhere;)

As requested. :)

rx2mazda
02-10-2010, 01:11 PM
Now can we see the new pic of the FRONT of the motor so Carroll can eat his words:p Picked up a bunch of room at the firewall when the front mount went in eh? Unless the engine bay *grew* it had to come from somewhere;)


As requested. :)

Looks like I won't be eating any words! :p

2.216VTurbo
02-10-2010, 03:00 PM
dammit!:confused: How are Rampages so different at the core support:confused2: Pics later today now that it's not raining all day.

turboshad
02-10-2010, 03:45 PM
Everything's looking great Rob. :clap: ................just felt I should say something extremely inspirational since I'm keeping track of the thread.

rx2mazda
02-10-2010, 08:42 PM
dammit!:confused: How are Rampages so different at the core support:confused2: Pics later today now that it's not raining all day.

:lol::lol::p;):amen::D:blah::number1::banana-mario::wave1::rockon::grouphug::focus:

rx2mazda
02-10-2010, 08:49 PM
As requested. :)

Thanks for the pics Rob! From looking at those I can see that I shouldn't have a problem getting everything to fit like a glove. Knowing and seeing that the HE351 fits with no mods is awesome, now I won't have to go beating on my freshly painted engine bay!

Shadow
02-10-2010, 09:50 PM
Everything's looking great Rob. :clap: ................just felt I should say something extremely inspirational since I'm keeping track of the thread.

Inspiration accepted! :)


Thanks for the pics Rob! From looking at those I can see that I shouldn't have a problem getting everything to fit like a glove. Knowing and seeing that the HE351 fits with no mods is awesome, now I won't have to go beating on my freshly painted engine bay!

Remember, it's only clearing by 1/8th right now. I think the compressor cover is close to where it will stay, but I won't know for sure until we bolt in the 4WD brake booster. When you clocked your turbo, how close to bottoming the W/G solonoid on the shift cable brkt were you?

turbovanman²
02-10-2010, 10:04 PM
That turbo sits close, phew, :nod: Good job the engine rotates down under forward motion, it could hit in reverse.

An HY35 is an HY35, not an HE341. The HY/HX has a bolt on exhaust outlet flange and v band compressor outlet, HE341 is identical to the HE351 for mounting. ;)

rx2mazda
02-10-2010, 10:16 PM
Remember, it's only clearing by 1/8th right now. I think the compressor cover is close to where it will stay, but I won't know for sure until we bolt in the 4WD brake booster. When you clocked your turbo, how close to bottoming the W/G solonoid on the shift cable brkt were you?

My turbo is a Hy-35 so, I don't have a WG soleniod. I just found out recently that I didn't have a HE351. Good thing is that, as Jackson said, the T3 flange is thinner on the HY-35 so I should gain some clearance there. I just bought a HE351 that i'm rebuilding, I will be putting it in my Machined out HY-35 turbine housing as its a direct fit.

Shadow
02-10-2010, 10:19 PM
My turbo is a Hy-35 so, I don't have a WG soleniod. I just found out recently that I didn't have a HE351. Good thing is that, as Jackson said, the T3 flange is thinner on the HY-35 so I should gain some clearance there. I just bought a HE351 that i'm rebuilding, I will be putting it in my Machined out HY-35 turbine housing as its a direct fit.


That turbo sits close, phew, :nod: Good job the engine rotates down under forward motion, it could hit in reverse.

An HY35 is an HY35, not an HE341. The HY/HX has a bolt on exhaust outlet flange and v band compressor outlet, HE341 is identical to the HE351 for mounting. ;)

I think these should have been posted in this order. :lol:

rx2mazda
02-10-2010, 10:22 PM
I think these should have been posted in this order. :lol:


:lol:Yeah Simon, the HY35 is a He351 with a smaller comp wheel, everything else is the same(9cm turbine w/v-band, etc). :p

Shadow
02-10-2010, 10:25 PM
That turbo sits close, phew, :nod: Good job the engine rotates down under forward motion, it could hit in reverse.

Zackly what I was thinking.



An HY35 is an HY35, not an HE341. The HY/HX has a bolt on exhaust outlet flange and v band compressor outlet, HE341 is identical to the HE351 for mounting. ;)

Not quite "identicle" as Jackson pointed out. ;)


My turbo is a Hy-35 so, I don't have a WG soleniod. I just found out recently that I didn't have a HE351. Good thing is that, as Jackson said, the T3 flange is thinner on the HY-35 so I should gain some clearance there. I just bought a HE351 that i'm rebuilding, I will be putting it in my Machined out HY-35 turbine housing as its a direct fit.

This makes sense to me as I was always wondering why you weren't trapping higher for the boost you were running. Should have been making better power For Sure with an HE351.

Shadow
02-10-2010, 10:26 PM
:lol:Yeah Simon, the HY35 is a He351 with a smaller comp wheel, everything else is the same(9cm turbine w/v-band, etc). :p

This should be good...........:evil:

rx2mazda
02-10-2010, 10:33 PM
Zackly what I was thinking.



Not quite "identicle" as Jackson pointed out. ;)



This makes sense to me as I was always wondering why you weren't trapping higher for the boost you were running. Should have been making better power For Sure with an HE351.

I think my cheapo FMIC was the main reason for my lackluster trap speeds...

cordes
02-10-2010, 11:02 PM
Inspiration accepted! :)



Remember, it's only clearing by 1/8th right now. I think the compressor cover is close to where it will stay, but I won't know for sure until we bolt in the 4WD brake booster. When you clocked your turbo, how close to bottoming the W/G solonoid on the shift cable brkt were you?

4WD brake booster?

Shadow
02-10-2010, 11:49 PM
4WD brake booster?

4 wheel disc.;)

turbovanman²
02-11-2010, 02:10 AM
:lol:Yeah Simon, the HY35 is a He351 with a smaller comp wheel, everything else is the same(9cm turbine w/v-band, etc). :p

I realize that but there is a thing as an HE341, I got the gyst that Shadow didn't think there was. I was merely pointing out there is an actual HE341, :amen: :lol:

No, the HY35 has a V-band outlet but its a bolt on, unlike the HE which are huge built in V-bands, and a different compressor housing, you know that, sheesh, :fencing:

Shadow
02-11-2010, 10:09 AM
I realize that but there is a thing as an HE341, I got the gyst that Shadow didn't think there was. I was merely pointing out there is an actual HE341, :amen: :lol:

No, the HY35 has a V-band outlet but its a bolt on, unlike the HE which are huge built in V-bands, and a different compressor housing, you know that, sheesh, :fencing:

This is the fun part of interneting :D ppls own interpretation of what they Think others are saying! Simon, I am fully aware of what an HE341 is. I am also aware that Carroll has been running one on his car that he "thought" was an HE351. The only Q left is Does Carroll know what an HE341 is? (or does he think it's an HY35?) ;)

rx2mazda
02-11-2010, 11:07 AM
Opps, sorry...Now Carroll thinks he has a both, a 341 and a 351 lol.

turbovanman²
02-11-2010, 02:27 PM
This is the fun part of interneting :D ppls own interpretation of what they Think others are saying! Simon, I am fully aware of what an HE341 is. I am also aware that Carroll has been running one on his car that he "thought" was an HE351. The only Q left is Does Carroll know what an HE341 is? (or does he think it's an HY35?) ;)

Yep, good old internet, hehehe, :lol: :p

I almost used an HE341 until I posted up asking how to spot one, phew. :amen:

Shadow
02-11-2010, 09:12 PM
Opps, sorry...Now Carroll thinks he has a both, a 341 and a 351 lol.

Thinks? From what you were saying that's exactly what you have! :clap:


Yep, good old internet, hehehe, :lol: :p

I almost used an HE341 until I posted up asking how to spot one, phew. :amen:

Phew? Nothing wrong with an HE341....just ask Carroll! :eyebrows:

cordes
02-11-2010, 09:19 PM
4 wheel disc.;)

Thanks. I didn't realize that there was a difference between them.

turbovanman²
02-11-2010, 10:46 PM
Phew? Nothing wrong with an HE341....just ask Carroll! :eyebrows:

No, but I wanted and paid for an HE351, ;)

Lotashelbys
02-11-2010, 11:33 PM
I realize that but there is a thing as an HE341, I got the gyst that Shadow didn't think there was. I was merely pointing out there is an actual HE341, :amen: :lol:

No, the HY35 has a V-band outlet but its a bolt on, unlike the HE which are huge built in V-bands, and a different compressor housing, you know that, sheesh, :fencing:

Ok im confused. I was looking at a Holset chart the other day(right from Holset) and they show the HY35W for the 03-04s and the HE351CW for the 04.5-06s. The turbo that I sold Carroll was an HY35W off an 04. I thought it was an HE351 but found out differently after I got one of my own. The turbine housings on both of them will interchange with the only differences being the flange thinkness and the size of the WG hole(3/4 on the HY and 7/8 on the HE). They both take the same V-bands on both ends. The compressor on the HE351 in physically 1/2" bigger on the OD than the HY35W so the HY clears better. Performance wise the compressor wheel on the HE is bigger and thats about it. I had an HY35W on my car and just swapped out the center and compressor to an HE351 and didnt notice a difference.

Now what is the HE341? Is that what others call the 03-04 HY35W????

rx2mazda
02-12-2010, 09:37 AM
http://i39.tinypic.com/23m7tjd.jpg

Shadow
02-12-2010, 10:55 AM
Now what is the HE341? Is that what others call the 03-04 HY35W????

Yes. For some time ppl were calling all of these three turbos HY35's. Then ppl started to realize that there was a difference with the 04-07's (larger compressor wheel) and started to realize that it was actually a different turbo...HE351. The only diff between the early HY35's and the 03-04's is the packaging (as far as I know) so ppl were still calling them HY35's, cause that's basically what they are. In recent years it has come to light that they are actually HE341's. I don't know where this info came from, Chrysler diesel option list or right from Holset. (I would imagine it would be the latter though)

30 PSI SHADOW
02-12-2010, 10:57 AM
you guys kill me. LOL. I spent many nights without sleep worring about if the T3 would fit. And i ALREADY painted my engine bay!
I thought it would be like "Monkey fu&%$%g a football" but it ended up being like "going to bed with your socks on", not a big deal. The turbo selection on the other hand might. mine is a stage 2,TO4E. Holset? on your own...

Pat
02-12-2010, 11:24 AM
you guys kill me. LOL. I spent many nights without sleep worring about if the T3 would fit. And i ALREADY painted my engine bay!
I thought it would be like "Monkey fu&%$%g a football" but it ended up being like "going to bed with your socks on", not a big deal. The turbo selection on the other hand might. mine is a stage 2,TO4E. Holset? on your own...

Bill...what radiator do you have in there? I can't make it out.

30 PSI SHADOW
02-12-2010, 12:53 PM
scirrocco alum race rad with dual fan

30 PSI SHADOW
02-12-2010, 01:02 PM
fits in nicely, and cools awesome!

turbovanman²
02-12-2010, 03:10 PM
Now what is the HE341? Is that what others call the 03-04 HY35W????

Externally, they look identical, except the 351 has the electrical solenoid on the compressor housing.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=122

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/Garrett_vs_Holset_Compressor_Wheels.gif

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/Garrett_vs_Holset_Turbine_Wheels.gif

rx2mazda
02-12-2010, 04:31 PM
Bill...what radiator do you have in there? I can't make it out.

Why?! :confused:

Getting scared and think about putting your TIII in the GLHS so you can have a chance?;)

Pat
02-12-2010, 04:46 PM
Why?! :confused:

Getting scared and think about putting your TIII in the GLHS so you can have a chance?;)

No, I want to beat you with two for half of the price. :)

rx2mazda
02-12-2010, 04:48 PM
No, I want to beat you with two for half of the price. :)

:lol::lol:

Sorry Rob...:focus:

turbovanman²
02-12-2010, 05:37 PM
No, I want to beat you with two for half of the price. :)

Oh SNAP! :p

Shadow
02-12-2010, 07:26 PM
:lol::lol:

Sorry Rob...:focus:

No problem, have some fun with it! :clap:


fits in nicely, and cools awesome!

That is very close to the Griffin I'm running in my Charger. Only difference is mine has the filler and inlet and outlet exactly opposite of yours. Yours looks like it works better with the TIII set up that way.

Shadow
02-14-2010, 09:29 PM
I had an HY35W on my car and just swapped out the center and compressor to an HE351 and didnt notice a difference.

At what boost level? The HE351 Should be worth 20-30WHP over the HY35 at 20+psi if your set-up can flow it. :confused2:

Shadow
02-15-2010, 11:24 PM
Well, spent most of the wknd welding holes shut and drilling new ones. I keep forgetting this is a NON-A/C car that's getting A/C. Figured it was time to change that around. Pulled out the mtr/trans and went to town. Welded up the old heater box hole in the top of the sill pan and the old brake booster holes while we were at it. Now she's ready for A/C. :nod: (I would have posted pics, but it's very boring and alot to do about nothing kind of stuff....you wouldn't like it.) :D

supercrackerbox
02-16-2010, 03:43 AM
Thanks. I didn't realize that there was a difference between them.

Neither did I . . . :confused2:

Shadow
02-16-2010, 09:54 PM
Thanks. I didn't realize that there was a difference between them.


Neither did I . . . :confused2:

The first L-body 4WD set-up we did (about 12-13 years ago) we left the stock brake booster and the brakes were very hard, almost like standard brakes. We swapped in the Daytona brake booster and the brakes felt great, but the peddals were screwy. (sat at different heights) So we modified a combo 1/2 S/C 1/2 Daytona peddal mouting bracket and everything worked perfect.

The bolt pattern on the S/C brake booster is almost 1/2" wider than the 4WD brake booster from a Daytona/other. The other obvious difference is the size, the 4WD booster being much larger.

supercrackerbox
02-17-2010, 12:44 AM
Interesting. When I put the CSXT brakes on my Charger, it never even occured to me to swap the booster. Everything else was transferred directly from the CSXT including the prop valve. The pedal feel slightly stiffer than my Daytona, but I chocked that up to the braided hoses I installed. I will say that the car doesn't stop quite as hard as I remember the CSXT stopping, nor as hard as my '91 Daytona. I may have to look into this.

Thanks!

Shadow
02-17-2010, 11:05 AM
Interesting. When I put the CSXT brakes on my Charger, it never even occured to me to swap the booster. Everything else was transferred directly from the CSXT including the prop valve. The pedal feel slightly stiffer than my Daytona, but I chocked that up to the braided hoses I installed. I will say that the car doesn't stop quite as hard as I remember the CSXT stopping, nor as hard as my '91 Daytona. I may have to look into this.

Thanks!

Your welcome.

Had a couple ppl asking what all had to be changed for A/C (in a non-A/C car) First pic shows firewall with no changes yet. Air intake up top is in center of valley pan, mounting holes in firewall are wrong location for heater box, heater core holes are wrong and A/C drain has to be drilled out.

Next pic is old air intake welded shut, then new location for A/C air intake and finally a shot of what it looks like now with old holes welded shut and new holes drilled along with A/C block cut out and heater core hole corrected.

cordes
02-19-2010, 10:09 PM
The first L-body 4WD set-up we did (about 12-13 years ago) we left the stock brake booster and the brakes were very hard, almost like standard brakes. We swapped in the Daytona brake booster and the brakes felt great, but the peddals were screwy. (sat at different heights) So we modified a combo 1/2 S/C 1/2 Daytona peddal mouting bracket and everything worked perfect.

The bolt pattern on the S/C brake booster is almost 1/2" wider than the 4WD brake booster from a Daytona/other. The other obvious difference is the size, the 4WD booster being much larger.

Thanks for the info. I did not realize that, and it explains why the pedal is so hard in my black omni. It still stops like all get out, but you really need to be on the pedal hard for it to happen. I may need to make this conversion in the future.

Turbo224
02-20-2010, 01:25 AM
Awesome project. Looking forward to this thing being done. :)

Shadow
02-23-2010, 01:09 AM
Thanks for the info. I did not realize that, and it explains why the pedal is so hard in my black omni. It still stops like all get out, but you really need to be on the pedal hard for it to happen. I may need to make this conversion in the future.

Funny, I just assumed most ppl were running the DD BB when doing the AWD conversion.

cordes
02-23-2010, 07:24 PM
Funny, I just assumed most ppl were running the DD BB when doing the AWD conversion.

Actually this is the first I have heard of it. I will be looking very strongly at it though.

rx2mazda
02-24-2010, 09:46 AM
ditto

Shadow
02-27-2010, 01:24 PM
Looking into which rack Glenn is going to run. Correct me if I'm wrong, their is No manuel fast ratio rack for our L-bodies...right? Would anyone have the right part #'s for an A/M fast ratio power rack for L-bodies? (Moog, TRW ect)

Thanks :)

cordes
02-27-2010, 08:50 PM
Looking into which rack Glenn is going to run. Correct me if I'm wrong, their is No manuel fast ratio rack for our L-bodies...right? Would anyone have the right part #'s for an A/M fast ratio power rack for L-bodies? (Moog, TRW ect)

Thanks :)

I believe you are correct in that there is no quick ratio manual rack. It is actually a huge difference between the two.

supercrackerbox
03-01-2010, 02:32 PM
Something like 22:1 vs. 14:1 IIRC.

2.216VTurbo
03-01-2010, 02:36 PM
I've always thought that there was room on the spindle tabs to redrill the tie rod holes for a quicker steer. It's a tapered hole tho so I've never tried it. I bet one of the smart guys like yourself could make it work Shadow:eyebrows:

Shadow
03-02-2010, 11:21 AM
I've always thought that there was room on the spindle tabs to redrill the tie rod holes for a quicker steer. It's a tapered hole tho so I've never tried it. I bet one of the smart guys like yourself could make it work Shadow:eyebrows:

Funny you should mention that. I alway thought there should be a better use of that extra slab of steel that seemed to be there for no good reason. I'll have to look further into how that might work! :nod:

Shadow
03-06-2010, 07:57 PM
Something like 22:1 vs. 14:1 IIRC.

Anyone know what that equates to as far as steering goes? 2.5 turns of the steering wheel, left to right vs ?

rx2mazda
03-06-2010, 09:59 PM
Anyone know what that equates to as far as steering goes? 2.5 turns of the steering wheel, left to right vs ?

I just hooked up my manual rack and it is a noticeable difference in the turns it takes to lock vs the power rack. I didn't count turns but I could easily tell. Good part was that the thing turned almost effortlessly for me. I was expecting it to be harder so, i'm happy with the manual rack. Anyway, I thought you notched the frame and were gonna run a power rack?:confused:

Rod Enis
03-06-2010, 10:40 PM
whats a good price for a bare Lotus head?

Shadow
03-07-2010, 12:41 AM
I just hooked up my manual rack and it is a noticeable difference in the turns it takes to lock vs the power rack. I didn't count turns but I could easily tell. Good part was that the thing turned almost effortlessly for me. I was expecting it to be harder so, i'm happy with the manual rack. Anyway, I thought you notched the frame and were gonna run a power rack?:confused:

We are running power rack, just want to make sure we get the right ratio one! :nod:

TheCanadian007
03-07-2010, 08:18 AM
Quick ratio one is indeed 14:1 ratio, 2.5 turns lock to lock. Stock L-body one is around 3 or so turns, lock to lock. I have a part number somewhere, I'll go dig it up!

Shadow
03-07-2010, 12:11 PM
whats a good price for a bare Lotus head?

Are you buying or selling?


Quick ratio one is indeed 14:1 ratio, 2.5 turns lock to lock. Stock L-body one is around 3 or so turns, lock to lock. I have a part number somewhere, I'll go dig it up!

Thanks man...that would be great! :nod:

Rod Enis
03-07-2010, 06:00 PM
Are you buying or selling?



Thanks man...that would be great! :nod:

I'm buying..thx

Shadow
03-08-2010, 01:04 AM
I'm buying..thx

I've seen them on ebay, bare casting for 200.00-400.00.

Shadow
03-08-2010, 01:13 AM
Finally got going on the Charger again. Glenn was out and we started mocking up the rear vented disc brakes.

Shadow
03-08-2010, 02:01 AM
While the boys were busy looking at the brakes, I turned my attention to something I've been thinking about for a while. How we're going to run a 4" CAI to that turbo with the outlet pointing right at it? :confused2:

I can deff see why ppl run screens on these things, I had Way more room on my 8v! Now, how many remember what I did to the Holset housing on My Charger? (and that one actually fit well already) Just wait till you see what I did to Glenn's! :eyebrows:

Rod Enis
03-08-2010, 03:52 AM
I've seen them on ebay, bare casting for 200.00-400.00.

cool..thx

Shadow
03-08-2010, 10:22 AM
Warning! Your about to glimpse into the mind of what some may perceive as borderline MADNESS! I have been blessed with a gift of not being able to accept "good enough". That blessing is also my curse, and as you will soon see, the first cut is the deepest........:evil:

2.216VTurbo
03-08-2010, 10:51 AM
To funny! I was gonna say chop the outlet off the Holset to make room:lol: Grat minds... Looking good, when you get the parking/E brake cable figured out can I see what you've come up with? Mine has never been right and I'd like to see another option. BTW, can you remind me again what you are building this rig for, I thought you were a drag guy;)? That's lotsa rear brake for a strait line car:D

rx2mazda
03-08-2010, 11:13 AM
I was thinking also of cutting my Holset! I wanted to run the TB on the passenger side but after getting the intake there, doesn't look like i'll have enough room. Thinking I can have the Holset point straight up(like every other turbo)and route the pipes along the passenger side and have the TB on the drivers. Time will tell. Keep up the good work!

turbokid
03-08-2010, 11:53 AM
hmmmm good stuff. Will be interested to see how that Holset will work out.
Q

Shadow
03-08-2010, 03:13 PM
To funny! I was gonna say chop the outlet off the Holset to make room:lol: Grat minds... Looking good, when you get the parking/E brake cable figured out can I see what you've come up with? Mine has never been right and I'd like to see another option. BTW, can you remind me again what you are building this rig for, I thought you were a drag guy;)? That's lotsa rear brake for a strait line car:D

This car is going to be a street cruiser and will prob see more auto-X than drag racing. I'm thinking that more wieght in the rear wouldn't be such a bad thing for Auto-X....what do you think?

turbovanman²
03-08-2010, 03:13 PM
Looking into which rack Glenn is going to run. Correct me if I'm wrong, their is No manuel fast ratio rack for our L-bodies...right? Would anyone have the right part #'s for an A/M fast ratio power rack for L-bodies? (Moog, TRW ect)

Thanks :)

I was able to get manual racks awhile back, if you need one, I can ask my supplier again. Not sure if it's a fast ratio??


Warning! Your about to glimpse into the mind of what some may perceive as borderline MADNESS! I have been blessed with a gift of not being able to accept "good enough". That blessing is also my curse, and as you will soon see, the first cut is the deepest........:evil:

Not madness, just genius, :amen:

Shadow
03-08-2010, 03:19 PM
I was thinking also of cutting my Holset! I wanted to run the TB on the passenger side but after getting the intake there, doesn't look like i'll have enough room. Thinking I can have the Holset point straight up(like every other turbo)and route the pipes along the passenger side and have the TB on the drivers. Time will tell. Keep up the good work!

As you can see in the third pic, there isn't enough material to cut as far as I wanted to and get both pieces. (you just go thin at the end) There was no way I was going to risk cutting through the compressor housing, so I cut the 90 off in such a way that the compressor housing will almost look "untouched once it's buzzed down and bead blasted.

Cutting where I did would deff allow a 90, 45, straight, or any other end that you would want to weld on to it work. :nod:

rx2mazda
03-08-2010, 03:23 PM
As you can see in the third pic, there isn't enough material to cut as far as I wanted to and get both pieces. (you just go thin at the end) There was no way I was going to risk cutting through the compressor housing, so I cut the 90 off in such a way that the compressor housing will almost look "untouched once it's buzzed down and bead blasted.

Cutting where I did would deff allow a 90, 45, straight, or any other end that you would want to weld on to it work. :nod:

I see, looks great! I would like to put a 45 on the end and have it wrap around and point to the passenger side. You trying to catch up? :p

Shadow
03-08-2010, 03:23 PM
I was able to get manual racks awhile back, if you need one, I can ask my supplier again. Not sure if it's a fast ratio??

This cars staying P.S. I guess I confused ppl when I asked for the #'s to the fast ratio rack. I ment the power fast ratio rack. (just wanted to make sure we got the right one)



Not madness, just genius, :amen:

Thanks for the props, but to most it's usually a fine line between the two. :lol:

Shadow
03-08-2010, 03:28 PM
I see, looks great! I would like to put a 45 on the end and have it wrap around and point to the passenger side. You trying to catch up? :p

I can try all I want, your way to far ahead. But I really like the idea of this build log, keeps me from falling to far off of it!

If we can finish up most of the fabbing by the end of the month I'll go nuts and get the complete shell in paint, then it can Really go together while I'm getting the rest of the body panels in paint.

If she drives out by mid summer I'll be ecstatic! :D

Shadow
03-08-2010, 03:31 PM
Looking good, when you get the parking/E brake cable figured out can I see what you've come up with? Mine has never been right and I'd like to see another option.

Definatly, I'm going to try to show everything we do on this car. (if that's possible) We've done 4WD brake conversions on about 6-7 L-bodies over the years and they've all worked well.

rx2mazda
03-08-2010, 04:27 PM
I'm sure this one will look better. You guys are definitely doing it the right way.

Shadow
03-08-2010, 08:48 PM
I'm sure this one will look better. You guys are definitely doing it the right way.

I don't know if I'd say "better", yours is looking pretty good from where I'm sitting! I'm sure there will be things that will be "different" from your car, but that's the beauty of different ppl building different cars, you get to see some divercity! (which I think is Great!) :clap:

Shadow
03-08-2010, 09:23 PM
Looks like the new housing will clear the 4" CAI now! lol

After a little tigging and shaping the pieces are ready for action......:eyebrows:

Shadow
03-08-2010, 09:34 PM
Hello, now that's what I'M Talking about! :nod:

bakes
03-08-2010, 10:01 PM
That makes a big difference turning the compressor outlet.

rx2mazda
03-08-2010, 11:43 PM
Hello, now that's what I'M Talking about! :nod:

:hail: :clap: i'm jealous!

Shadow
03-09-2010, 12:03 AM
Well, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, guess what............

2.216VTurbo
03-09-2010, 12:22 AM
Crickey, I was gonna post pics of the progress I made today on the hybrid install but after those my work seems pedestrian:o Nice job on the mod.

Shadow
03-09-2010, 12:32 AM
Crickey, I was gonna post pics of the progress I made today on the hybrid install but after those my work seems pedestrian:o Nice job on the mod.

What are you talking about, that I/C looks sweet! :clap:

Shadow
03-09-2010, 10:45 AM
Final finished produck! lol Just needs blasting and rebuild time and she'l look like new! (well, almost new) :amen:

Shadow
03-09-2010, 11:00 AM
Now, remember where we started, here's the difference.:)

Shadow
03-14-2010, 07:17 PM
Finished up the CAI, pics are on the way........

forcedfedmopar
03-14-2010, 09:55 PM
good work. keep the pics coming. With work like this your gonna have to make me start grading on a curve!:nod:

Shadow
03-14-2010, 10:50 PM
Well, not completly finished, but mocked up pretty close to what it will be. :)

Dan15
03-14-2010, 11:09 PM
Is that Intake the ABS sewer pipe??

Shadow
03-15-2010, 12:28 AM
Is that Intake the ABS sewer pipe??

:lol: That sounded pretty funny! No, not sewer pipe, it's 4" semi intake elbows (a 90 and a 45) with thin walled mild steel pipe joining it together.

Dan15
03-15-2010, 12:31 AM
:lol: That sounded pretty funny! No, not sewer pipe, it's 4" semi intake elbows (a 90 and a 45) with thin walled mild steel pipe joining it together.

Oh ok! ha ha. It looks very similar! :D

I was at home depot and I was wondering how much heat they could handle because they were cheap!

2.216VTurbo
03-15-2010, 01:15 AM
Looking good underhood:eyebrows: Pretty brave though mocking it up without the wire harness, vac harness, hoses etc. That stuff takes up a ton of room and what fits with room to spare now might be too tight with everything in there:( I take it you are relocating the battery then too?

turbovanman²
03-15-2010, 01:32 AM
Damn dude, your flying along, :nod:


Oh ok! ha ha. It looks very similar! :D

I was at home depot and I was wondering how much heat they could handle because they were cheap!

I used that stuff for my first IC install in the van, :lol:

Shadow
03-15-2010, 10:02 AM
Looking good underhood:eyebrows: Pretty brave though mocking it up without the wire harness, vac harness, hoses etc. That stuff takes up a ton of room and what fits with room to spare now might be too tight with everything in there:( I take it you are relocating the battery then too?

I've done this enough times that i'm pretty comfortable knowing where things are going to be later. (time will tell if I screw something up! lol) Yes, battery is being relocated as there's no better place for the filter and I don't like things being "cluttered" so the big a$$ battery had to move! (funny eh, don't like clutter and I'm stuffing all this stuff into an L-body E/C) I'm thinking of going with the same battery as Carroll.

Dan15
03-15-2010, 02:46 PM
I used that stuff for my first IC install in the van, :lol:

Can it handle the heat? ha ha. It'd make my intake problem a lot easier!

turbovanman²
03-15-2010, 05:13 PM
Can it handle the heat? ha ha. It'd make my intake problem a lot easier!

Off the turbo, it did distort so I ran some metal exhaust pipe inside it for a few feet to help but other than that, it survived a few years no problem.

Shadow
03-17-2010, 11:43 PM
Finally got going on the Charger again. Glenn was out and we started mocking up the rear vented disc brakes.

Alrighty then, on to the rear trailing axel and brakes...... (or should i say back to! lol)

Shadow
03-18-2010, 09:39 AM
Well that didn't work too well! lol Guess I'll have to repost those pics!

Shadow
03-19-2010, 09:46 AM
K, here's where we left off. Mock up the rear brakes, cut the hose mnting brkt. At this point you could just bolt it to the trailing axel, or weld it on. (for a slightly smoother look)

Shadow
03-19-2010, 09:08 PM
Well flip me over and call me DONE! :mad: I thought I would have this wrapped up but too many ppl coming into the shop the last two days has left things very B-R-O-K-E-N :(

Welded up the brkts but didn't get a chance to finish blasting the trailing axel, so no paint....yet. Got some other things painted though.....

turbovanman²
03-19-2010, 09:33 PM
Pesky friends/customers, :mad: ;)

Do you ever work or is this your job? :p

Shadow
03-20-2010, 08:07 PM
Pesky friends/customers, :mad: ;)

Do you ever work or is this your job? :p

I run the shop 5 days a week and projects like this mostly on wknds. Of couse, I like to squeeze things through during the week if I can, to make things go quicker/smoother on the wknds.

Funny, most ppl ask me if I ever take a break! lol

turbovanman²
03-21-2010, 01:25 AM
I run the shop 5 days a week and projects like this mostly on wknds. Of couse, I like to squeeze things through during the week if I can, to make things go quicker/smoother on the wknds.

Funny, most ppl ask me if I ever take a break! lol

Gotcha.

I used to get that, I would work all day on customer cars then all night to 2-3 am on my van, did that for a week straight a few years ago to get my TIII runnning, :o

Shadow
04-06-2010, 09:58 AM
Slight change of plans, Glenn is going to get some stuff powdercoated now, so the trailing axel is gone and we needed to get the K member done and blast a couple a-arms. Glenn decided to run the newer style 89-90 cross member and a-arms, so a wee bit of fabbing was needed......

First we measured off about 1 3/8" to be removed from the center.

Shadow
04-06-2010, 10:08 AM
Once you get it tacked together and double check your measurements to the original L-body cross member you need to remove about an 1/8" from the left rear mount at the edge. Notice how the L-body is very narrow there. The new style is much thicker and will interfer with the frame.

Shadow
04-06-2010, 10:18 AM
You should be able to bolt it up at this point. Remember to always tighten the right rear (pass side) mounting nut First, as this aligns the cross member.

Three of the four mounts should line up (if you measured right and cut/welded it straight) The pass side front mount is slightly longer than the L-body's frame, so you need to fix that.

2.216VTurbo
04-06-2010, 10:29 AM
Man, I've wanted to do that since I saw my first stamped arm double pivot frame in 89':clap2: Although RBryant was the first to do it that I know of, your DIY write up and pics are:hail: You're making it look too easy once again...

Shadow
04-06-2010, 11:15 AM
Man, I've wanted to do that since I saw my first stamped arm double pivot frame in 89':clap2: Although RBryant was the first to do it that I know of, your DIY write up and pics are:hail: You're making it look too easy once again...

The first one of these we modded was back in 97, the original twin turbo. Funny, that car is still collecting dust, but the mods and fabbing we did way back then has been incorporated on a lot of the cars we've built since.

Shadow
04-06-2010, 11:36 AM
For these last pics you'll have to look carefully at the differences because it all happened faster than I could pic up the camera! lol

With the cross member bolted up in three places, you simply mark a line on the pass side "leg" of the crossmember where it matches up with the frame mount. We ended up taking about 1/2" off the end. Then we broke the welds along one side of the underside to move the inner structure back so you have room for the bolt/washer to sit properly. We simply hammered the tight bend at the top underside till it "stopped" on the same bend as the outer structure. (not sure if I'm esplaining this well)

Then we welded it up and filled the half hole left from cutting the end off.
We installed the cross member in the car 1 more time and used anti-sieze (of all things) to reach up and mark the hole through the frame "box". This worked remakably well as we had a perfect circle of anti-sieze left on the cross member when we brought it down.

We drilled out the hole and viola! Ready to blast and send out for powder coating.

Shadow
04-07-2010, 09:48 PM
All blasted and ready to powder coat.....

bakes
04-08-2010, 01:11 AM
How much weight between the two k members?

Shadow
04-08-2010, 01:26 AM
How much weight between the two k members?

Good Q. I just went and weighed them (50lb fish scale, don't know how accurate) 26lb for the old, 29lb for the new.

supercrackerbox
04-08-2010, 02:23 AM
For once I'm glad I'm so far behind schedule on getting things done on my Charger, or I'd be very tempted to do this . . .

turbovanman²
04-08-2010, 03:01 AM
Wow, you are the man, :hail:

How do you make sure the K-member is true before welding?

Shadow
04-08-2010, 10:04 AM
Wow, you are the man, :hail:

How do you make sure the K-member is true before welding?

I have a nice flat level welding bench. I take the k-member and lay it down, this cross member had a slight tilt straight back and forth. I shimmed it in two spots and marked there location and also mark the depth of the shims.

The real trick is to measure accuratly. I use two pieces of tape and make sure that they are exactly the same distance apart for the entire run. Then a very clean and accurate cut. You'll know if you did it right because the two pieces will fit back together perfectly. Then I put two tacks on the top and put it back on the bench and put the shims back where they were. Then I finish tacking it, test fit it in the car, double check that nothing has moved. Weld one side, check the shims again, weld the other side and done.

TheCanadian007
04-08-2010, 12:36 PM
Awesome work! :hail:

Speedeuphoria
04-08-2010, 07:08 PM
No seem welding of the factory welds?

Shadow
04-08-2010, 08:47 PM
No seem welding of the factory welds?

The factory welds look brutal, but I didn't see any spots that were missed to the point of concern. If this was going to be a 500+WHP hard launching on slicks at the track 10 sec type car, I prob would go the extra length and weld up everything. Having said that, I Never seen one of these come apart and this piece looks to be sygnificantly stronger than it's counterpart!

supercrackerbox
04-09-2010, 04:11 AM
I broke the one in my CSXT, although body rust may have been a contributing factor . . .

Shadow
04-20-2010, 11:19 PM
Got some stuff back from the powdercoater....



This is chassis black if your wondering, not gloss black

Shadow
04-20-2010, 11:26 PM
For those who were wondering what we do to the rear e-brakes. Pretty simple actually. We use the complete L-body e-brake set-up with the vented rears.

Those are stock L-body cables going to the factory location.

CDNTurboZ
04-21-2010, 03:47 PM
Looks nice, I still have to mess around with my ebrake as its not holding well, I used stock 86 lbody ebrake cables as well.

Shadow
04-21-2010, 10:11 PM
Looks nice, I still have to mess around with my ebrake as its not holding well, I used stock 86 lbody ebrake cables as well.

I should be carefull what I say. It's been 12-13 years since we first did this and I bought so many sets of cables that I still have some. I remember sizing about 10 different cables when we did it. Pretty sure they were stock L-body, but I better check to be sure.

CDNTurboZ
04-21-2010, 10:35 PM
Yeah I'm running 89 style rear brakes but with all new stock 86 lbody cables,

Our problem was that as we tighten up the e-brake cable adjuster the one side (I think its the passenger's side) is grabbing sooner than the other so that the passenger's side locks up too soon.

Once we tighten it up more the driver's side will lock up and release fine but the passenger's side is still totally locked once released.

Shadow
04-22-2010, 10:01 AM
Yeah I'm running 89 style rear brakes but with all new stock 86 lbody cables,

Our problem was that as we tighten up the e-brake cable adjuster the one side (I think its the passenger's side) is grabbing sooner than the other so that the passenger's side locks up too soon.

Once we tighten it up more the driver's side will lock up and release fine but the passenger's side is still totally locked once released.

Did you lube up the center "shoe spreader" with anti-sieze? They like to rust up and bind.

Shadow
04-22-2010, 10:06 AM
Complete Polybushings rear end with anti-sway bar....

TheCanadian007
04-22-2010, 12:17 PM
:love: Sooo nice!

2.216VTurbo
04-22-2010, 12:48 PM
Very nice, thought yo9u said this was just a street car? Looks like a show car underneath:thumb:

You ground off the welds on the K frame?

2POINT5TURBO
04-22-2010, 03:40 PM
Seeing this car in person all I have to say is just WOW, the work and quality put into this car is just amazing.

Shadow
04-22-2010, 04:12 PM
Very nice, thought yo9u said this was just a street car? Looks like a show car underneath:thumb:

You ground off the welds on the K frame?

Just cleaned them up a little, there's still a very slight rise were the weld is. Was thinking about leaving them, but then considered taking the top of the bead off for a better look (lol as if many will see it!) Sides, there's practically no stress on that part of the member except for the rear mount, and it's on top of double plated solid welded through steel that won't be coming apart in this lifetime.

Shadow
04-23-2010, 04:39 PM
:love: Sooo nice!


Seeing this car in person all I have to say is just WOW, the work and quality put into this car is just amazing.

Thanks guys!


Very nice, thought yo9u said this was just a street car? Looks like a show car underneath:thumb:

Na, just a nice clean street cruiser/wkd warrior.

rx2mazda
04-24-2010, 12:13 PM
Looks great! Now who has all the updates rolling in every week? :D

Shadow
04-25-2010, 11:46 AM
Looks great! Now who has all the updates rolling in every week? :D

Well, so far we've only gotten to work on it 1 day a week. I'm really hoping we can step things up a bit once the FWD Coil-overs and other FWD goodies arrive!

Also, now that Glenn is going with the full L-body Koni coil-over set-up, he will be selling his other L-body Koni's. Any idea what a set of front Koni's with MP lowering springs and less than 10 000KM's on them is worth?

turbovanman²
04-25-2010, 05:54 PM
Wow, I'd hate to be paying the bill on this car, lol. Great work, :hail:




Also, now that Glenn is going with the full L-body Koni coil-over set-up, he will be selling his other L-body Koni's. Any idea what a set of front Koni's with MP lowering springs and less than 10 000KM's on them is worth?

Not much, :eyebrows:

cordes
04-25-2010, 08:13 PM
Well, so far we've only gotten to work on it 1 day a week. I'm really hoping we can step things up a bit once the FWD Coil-overs and other FWD goodies arrive!

Also, now that Glenn is going with the full L-body Koni coil-over set-up, he will be selling his other L-body Koni's. Any idea what a set of front Koni's with MP lowering springs and less than 10 000KM's on them is worth?

I agree with Simon; they aren't really worth anything. I could use the fronts so just box them up and send them to me so that they won't be in your way. ;)

Seriously though, I gave $200 shipped for some good rears recently...

Shadow
05-04-2010, 08:34 PM
Update; Just thought I'd let you guys know that there are no significant updates to report. :thumb:

Directconnection
05-04-2010, 08:40 PM
I gave $200 shipped for some good rears recently...

sick bastage!

we don't take lightly to yer kind here!

Shadow
05-06-2010, 06:04 PM
Update; Just thought I'd let you guys know that there are no significant updates to report. :thumb:

I see that my feeble attempt at Seinfeld type humor has fallen by the wayside......... Guess I'll just have to post up some pics of the recent Goodies that have overtaken the shop! :)

Shadow
05-07-2010, 09:40 PM
AFCO aluminum rad, brkts back from Jackson, modded and ready to go! And a wack of stuff from FWD Performance! (can hardly wait to get this stuff assembled and off my turbo bench!) :D

Cody
09-05-2010, 09:31 PM
any updates on this?

Shadow
09-07-2010, 09:56 AM
Glenn went on holidays and I got busy with the family cabin, so things got put on hold till this fall.....:(

86seeS
11-10-2011, 01:19 AM
Any updates on this?

Shadow
11-10-2011, 11:15 AM
Soooon :) Prob a month away from getting back on it. Spoke with Glenn for the first time in months a couple weeks ago and we both agreed that we need to get things back on a schedual.

Shadow
02-01-2013, 02:16 PM
Wow, this really got put on the BB. Well, after making the decision to get this car put away into storage, I realized that a # of things needed to be done first. Turns out that in that simple decision to get it moved out of the shop, and realizing that the E/C would need to get into paint first, we ended up getting back on this. lol

So, in an attempt to keep myself up to date on pics ect, I figured I would update this thread.

Pics coming tonight.............

Shadow
02-01-2013, 08:10 PM
When we left this project we were just getting ready to finish up the A/C lines and clearance everything accordingly, so we jumped on this a couple weeks ago and the lines are all figured out and just need to be sent in to be made up. We actually could have gotten away with using the factory Iroc R/T lines, but for the difference in cost for a more perfect factory looking fit, we decided to splurg!

Next was mounting the AFCO rad. I was originally going to simply bolt it down to the cradle using the existing mounts and rubber isolators like I did on the Charger, my Brent had a much better idea.

We sorted out the placement with the P/T in and then drilled a couple 1/8" holes straight through the center of each mounting tab and into the cradle below.

We then opened up the holes in the rad mount to 1/4" and welded a 1/4" AL rod "stub" in both sides so that we could now attach the factory rubber isolators.

Shadow
02-01-2013, 08:16 PM
Then we took a couple of factory top rad mounting brkts and cut them down so that they were flat and retained the beveled center hole to accept the rubber isolators.

We hole sawed the 1/8" holes in the bottom cradle just large enough that the mounting plates sat flush with the cradle and the beveled center ran inside the hole and we welded then to the cradle.

Shadow
02-01-2013, 08:22 PM
We dropped the rad in place and made up some simple AL plates to run up to the top of the cradle so that we could mount the whole unit using the factory mounts up top, using speed clips and bolts.

This left a large gap between the top of the cradle and top of the rad, so I made a thick rubber block-off so that the air would be directed through the rad and not around the top.

Shadow
02-01-2013, 08:33 PM
Now my favorite fan for these builds has always been the 7 blade zero clearance mtr fan that comes on most 90 and up cars. They have a nice sized shroud and they seem to fit in tight spaces and cool like Mad!

So it was no surprise (I have almost the same set-up on the Charger) that the 7 blade was going to fit like a glove. Although I ended up changing things a little on the mounting again.

Where I made the shroud custom to mount to the tabs on the rad (Charger) I decided I wanted to keep with the "stock" apperance and function on this build. So I mounted some plates to the bottom of the cradle and used them to hold the factory lower clips that hold the bottom of the shroud. (these usually mount right to a factory rad)

I then made some intricate little "boxes" and welded them to the upper cradle. These little boxes have slits cut in the bottoms so that the same clips that would hold the shroud to a factory rad will now hold the shroud to the upper cradle.

Shadow
02-01-2013, 08:47 PM
Had some minor trimming to do on the shroud itself and Bingo.........The finished product!

Entire set-up comes apart just like the factory set-up would. In and out in minutes :)

bakes
02-01-2013, 11:45 PM
Like BUTTON where is that fracken Like BUTTON!!!!!

Reaper1
02-02-2013, 05:01 PM
I just wanted to point out that the 1990 fans were the only ones that I'm aware of that come with the pigtail. All the later ones have the electrical connector built into the motor assembly, so you've have to source a plug. I, too, run this fan on everything! It just works so well!!

lengel
02-02-2013, 06:58 PM
Nice work Rob! What turbo is going on this beast?

Shadow
02-02-2013, 09:45 PM
Nice work Rob! What turbo is going on this beast?

Holset HE351.............what else! lol

turbovanman²
02-03-2013, 06:09 PM
Nice work Rob! What turbo is going on this beast?

Durrr, lol.

black86glhs
02-03-2013, 06:27 PM
Looking really good!

Shadow
06-02-2023, 02:01 PM
Bringing this one BFtD!

Along with the Charger and several other projects, this one got shelved and the years just kept going by. Got a few things done a little here and a little there, but so slow trying to get back to something part time.

I knew l needed a more concerted effort if it was ever to get finished. Knew l had to find a way to “Turn back the clock” and get back that Passion and frame of mind l had 10 years ago! But is that possible……?

cordes
06-02-2023, 03:22 PM
Watch Rocky, then listen to Eye of the Tiger as you open a drawer of your tool box. Consider the clock turned back.

Shadow
06-02-2023, 06:29 PM
Watch Rocky, then listen to Eye of the Tiger as you open a drawer of your tool box. Consider the clock turned back.

:nod::nod::nod::thumb:

Shadow
06-05-2023, 11:49 AM
Going to try to bring things up to speed and hopefully not forget anything too important along the way.

There were several attempts to get things going over the years and some significant things did get done.

We got the FWD Koni's installed and got the powder coated K member and trailing axle installed.

Something I've wanted to mention and hopefully others are aware of this;

When installing poly bushings into the rear trailing axle to frame mounts, make sure to Urethane them in permanently!

We originally installed a set years ago and after blasting and 3 coats of por15 they went in just snug. Once trailing axle was installed though, we could move it side to side more than I was willing to let go. This brought us to the conclusion that the factory pieces, which are Solid filled, would be better than installing the poly replacements with assembly lube.

So we removed and cleaned, scuffed the inside to give bite to por15 and used windshield urethane and let dry several days. All back together and problem solved.

Unfortunately this is the only pic I have from back then;

Shadow
06-05-2023, 11:56 AM
Porting the head was pretty nuts IMS. Took a Long time till I was happy with it. Can't believe I didn't take any pics, but can't find any.

I have 1 pic of the very beginning of the intake mani porting and a cpl of the exhaust mani. As you can tell, I've always gone with the slightly larger exhaust port rather than try to match them exactly.

Shadow
06-05-2023, 12:02 PM
Got the engine assembled and belt routing via Jackson mod, as well as Jackson recommendation on belt tension.

One thing that Glenn had always talked about was properly degreeing the cams via Chrysler specs, and he had saved all the info, so we did that as well.

Shadow
06-05-2023, 12:38 PM
Thought l would add Chrysler T3 cam centreline install specs as well as Jackson’s recommendations on serp belt tension

Shadow
06-05-2023, 12:42 PM
Also a great write up on the degreeing procedure by Neil Emiro.

karlak
06-05-2023, 04:04 PM
Thank you for the notes. I plan on doing this soon.

Shadow
06-08-2023, 10:23 AM
Thank you for the notes. I plan on doing this soon.

Your welcome, and I would be posting up more, but it's crazy how long it takes just to get back to where you were!

Several weeks into this and I'm wasting time running around figuring things out, just to come full circle to I had it figured already and just had to re dig up the solution.

Shadow
06-10-2023, 12:45 PM
Just going to post up a few pics of some clearance shots and move along to where we are now.

Not sure if our clocking of compressor housing changed things from others mounting the Holset straight on, but we found that the compressor housing interfered with the cross over shifter cable. Also, that cable brkt was right in the way of the Holset boost solenoid that we use along with Apexi boost controller.

So l modified and lowered that brkt while keeping shifter geometry in tact. No before pics, but going off memory, l believe l dropped it about 1/2 the width of that boost solenoid.

There have been a number of other mods along the way, but thinking l will just wait if anyone has any specific Q’s and go from there.

We flipped the T-stat neck and plugged the lower heater core feed from the bottom of water box and drilled/ tapped the back that usually feeds coolant to turbo for 5/8 barb fitting.

We are smack in the throws of wiring everything up now, so this will be the messy part, but things will start to move once past it. (Wiring has always been least exciting for me, which is why Brent handles 90% of it) 🙃

"Top Fuel" Bender
06-13-2023, 07:14 PM
looking great !!
can't wait to see this car back in action

rx2mazda
06-15-2023, 10:48 PM
I love T3 L-bodies!