ostrich emulator (and xenocron) FTW - read if you need a cal

[x.Gen]

picked up an ostrich 2.0 a couple weeks back. I have been having FAR too much fun playing with it since. before more time passes, I wanted to tell you all about the great experience I recently had buying it at xenocron - that is moates' primary distributor, and they are close enough for me to call them local. if you look at their site xenocron.com, you might notice they focus on hondas...true, but doesn't keep the owner chris from wanting to work on our cars. he digs on the grassroots scene, and told me he is up for simple services some of us need, like only burning a chip or socketing a board.
wish I'd have found him last year; he is quick to handle his business professionally, and when I told him about guys previously waiting 2-3 months for custom calibrated ECU's - he asked why, like anyone normal (meaning outside of TM circles). he was more than helpful in getting me up and running as soon as I asked for help. BIG thanks to him for getting me up to speed quickly. drop him an email or call if you guys need anything along those lines, you won't be disappointed.

on to the ostrich itself. what a sick tuning tool, on any level. my relevant setup info:
first gen g-body
2.5 common block
+20 injectors
LC1 wideband
stock T2 with big hot side (.63 turbine, 3" TU swingvalve)
3" turbo back, muffler only
GLHS MP II LM (previously)

I have a fair amount to say about this combination (pre-ostrich). firstly, this is a relatively fresh shortblock I put together last year. I had previously been running the MP GLHS LM with a 2.2 for I don't remember how many years, with great satisfaction. when I put the 2.5 in, I have to be honest - even after playing with both base timing, and a little cam timing, I wasn't as satisfied as I was with the 2.2 and this LM. I read probably every thread about the combination, and gotta say I think most of the posts I found neglected to mention the change in street manners. the performance out of boost was less than optimal, and with the need to back base timing down so much because of the mismatched timing tables, mpg definitely suffered, as did idle quality and throttle response (to a small, but noticeable extent). in-boost performance was great of course, but honestly - since I put this setup together, I spend MUCH less time in boost than before because it really isn't necessary for better than average acceleration.

then came the ostrich. for a long time I had been playing with what calibration I'd start off with, had everything relevant from the code repository, but honestly still like the MP II calibration as a starting point because I'm familiar with its behavior, and with the correct timing tables I figured it would be a relatively strong combination.
I've really only had to make a few changes to find the sweet spot - the timing tables of course, but fuel was actually (still) spot on, and is still showing rich up around 17 psi. it won't be long before I go 3-bar MAP at this point, it will be so simple to step up.
that is where the ostrich fits in best - I've been slowly accumulating parts as I go along, trying to focus now on the technical items now to squeeze power and efficiency out with each step. although I just grabbed the ostrich, it would have perfectly fit in earlier with my agenda of constant upgrades, however occasional. it will also work great for popping in to my second gen project, when I take the first gen off the road for paint and want similar benefits. for anyone doing semi-serious mods, the ostrich is money very well spent. not that I ever did, but I cannot imagine having to suffer thru a single day of waiting for someone to tweak my calibration for me. the ostrich fills that gap perfect.

final word on the overall combination, as it is set up now, is absolutely awesome. I'm an old-timer, have been around since before the boards - I knew what to expect. objectively as possible - with just slightly beyond a stock setup, from a dead stop I am definitely past the limits of traction under acceleration, and at relatively low boost levels (not full throttle). the scalded dog description fits again, but freakin SERIOUSLY now. full boost is something I've needed rarely, with the corrected timing tables now I'm sure it is even less necessary. the tires I'm on gotta last thru the winter! snap off the line is HUGELY improved with the timing tables corrected, this is definitely where the combination with the previous cal suffered. the setup clearly exploits the better torque curve of the 2.5 down low. there is absolutely no question as it sits if I wanted I could easily tap low 13's. I'm sure pending the 3-bar MAP and a good set of tires, and a couple of mouse clicks - this setup will be good for well beyond that. I don't know if I'll take this project that far, but I am ecstatic knowing whatever I do to it, correcting the tune is now only a few minutes from being done!

[turbovanman²]

Yeah, we know, they rock, :amen:

[x.Gen]

it took a good bit of reading to find out for myself, simon. :rolleyes: your posts were a good portion of it!

now that I'm using it, wondering why no one took the hammer to my head sooner. this should be done right next to opening the exhaust up. figured another voice would get the message out to the next one reading about it. I actually got to speak with Craig some, also. they are all good people to deal with, makes the purchase that much better knowing it. what an awesome mod, if I had a clue any sooner...:bolt:

[turbovanman²]

I hear you, took me too long to start playing, makes life so much easier, :amen:

[wowzer]

i want one bad. first thing i'll buy with my lottery winnings.

[minigts]

i want one bad. first thing i'll buy with my lottery winnings.

Lottery? http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?products_id=169

They're only like $175. If people would stop buying stupid crap and quit trying to get 10 of everything, people could get this system and tune their cars. I've seen people shell out more for a complete one piece intake they didn't need! Sheesh, just get it already. :p

[minigts]

Heck if we got a group buy for these, they'd be like $150 per. We should get 10 or more people to do it so we can. I'll front the money if everyone will pay.

[wowzer]

i'm in. always wanted one to use on my 300zxtt also. don't tell my wife.:eyebrows:

[turbovanman²]

Heck if we got a group buy for these, they'd be like $150 per. We should get 10 or more people to do it so we can. I'll front the money if everyone will pay.

Start a group buy, :thumb:

I also recommend getting the chip extender and ZIF socket at the same time, :eyebrows:

[cdavis]

Lottery? http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?products_id=169

They're only like $175. If people would stop buying stupid crap and quit trying to get 10 of everything, people could get this system and tune their cars. I've seen people shell out more for a complete one piece intake they didn't need! Sheesh, just get it already. :p

I would spend the money, but I want to learn more on how to reprogram my logic module before I start buy things I don't know how to use. I have read a little about Dcal and Moparchem, but still haven't found out what items I need to purchase. Unless this is something different.

[minigts]

Start a group buy, :thumb:

I also recommend getting the chip extender and ZIF socket at the same time, :eyebrows:

Comes with an 18" extender, but those who don't have socketed modules would need the ZIF socket. I'll start a group buy but I'm not shelling out a dime unless we get at least 10 and paid up front. I can't be held holding $400+ worth these things, unfortunately.

[turbovanman²]

Comes with an 18" extender, but those who don't have socketed modules would need the ZIF socket. I'll start a group buy but I'm not shelling out a dime unless we get at least 10 and paid up front. I can't be held holding $400+ worth these things, unfortunately.

That's why you do a group buy, durrrrrrrrrr, :eyebrows:

You need the ZIF socket for the chip extender, NOT the cable. That way, you can do a chip and leave it external, :thumb:

[wowzer]

does the tunerpro software handle our cals or do we need an interface of some sort to be developed that translates it into the proper format? or do we need our OWN software?

[bakes]

does the tunerpro software handle our cals or do we need an interface of some sort to be developed that translates it into the proper format? or do we need our OWN software?

I have had no luck getting are cals to run on tunerpro so far.

[A.J.]

I'm in for the group buy. I've wanted to get this for a while now but have been putting it off. I've got the $150 cash burning a hole in my pocket. Let me know if you get the 10.

A.J.

[minigts]

I'm in for the group buy. I've wanted to get this for a while now but have been putting it off. I've got the $150 cash burning a hole in my pocket. Let me know if you get the 10.

A.J.

Wrong thread. :p

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46245

We're at 13, you'd be 14.

[mock_glh]

does the tunerpro software handle our cals or do we need an interface of some sort to be developed that translates it into the proper format? or do we need our OWN software?

There's a program called "Emutility" that loads your .bin file into the Ostrich. It has a function that monitors the cal for changes (made with D-Cal and saved) and will do this while you engine is running. You just make your change on D-Cal, save the file (with the same name) and it will automatically load into the Ostrich.

[A.J.]

Wrong thread. :p

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46245

We're at 13, you'd be 14.

Thanks. I'll go there.

A.J.

[wowzer]

There's a program called "Emutility" that loads your .bin file into the Ostrich. It has a function that monitors the cal for changes (made with D-Cal and saved) and will do this while you engine is running. You just make your change on D-Cal, save the file (with the same name) and it will automatically load into the Ostrich.

i'm talking more about the logging/display of data.

[risen]

i'm talking more about the logging/display of data.
(this first line is a rehash of what mock_glh already said... should have finished reading his post, sry)
From my understanding you could edit a cal with mptuner/dcal and use emutility to auto-load the cal into the ostrich. Basically once emutility sees the file update it loads it into the ostrich. I dug up the win32 call to monitor a directory and check the files after the call. I had a test program lying around somewhere if you want it That test program is essentially the same thing emutility does. I think it was going to be for Rob's flashable smecs, but I'm not sure if he's going to need it.

As far as address tracing is concerned we would probably have to roll something ourselves. That would be one bad---- addition to mptuner though :) I'm totally down for helping with that one. Moates actually has a whole section devoted to developers including support for their hardware. I'd check out their help site and see what you can find. It's probably pretty straightforward.

There's been plenty of talk about using tunerpro with our cals, but I don't think anyone has gotten down to helping Mark support it. There was a whole thread somewhere around here about that. I basically explained the table format but I'm not sure if vprtech ever communicated with Mark to have tunerpro updated.

[amoparacer]

Okay so are you telling me tuner pro has a logging option. Why not just use your wideband to log and chemII and D-cal for your programing i do. Also i use an ostersich II and it rocks to do your own cal and its fun feel the fruits of your own labor.

[bakes]

(this first line is a rehash of what mock_glh already said... should have finished reading his post, sry)
From my understanding you could edit a cal with mptuner/dcal and use emutility to auto-load the cal into the ostrich. Basically once emutility sees the file update it loads it into the ostrich. I dug up the win32 call to monitor a directory and check the files after the call. I had a test program lying around somewhere if you want it That test program is essentially the same thing emutility does. I think it was going to be for Rob's flashable smecs, but I'm not sure if he's going to need it.

As far as address tracing is concerned we would probably have to roll something ourselves. That would be one bad---- addition to mptuner though :) I'm totally down for helping with that one. Moates actually has a whole section devoted to developers including support for their hardware. I'd check out their help site and see what you can find. It's probably pretty straightforward.

There's been plenty of talk about using tunerpro with our cals, but I don't think anyone has gotten down to helping Mark support it. There was a whole thread somewhere around here about that. I basically explained the table format but I'm not sure if vprtech ever communicated with Mark to have tunerpro updated.

your right that would be a bad A$$ addition.

[x.Gen]

As far as address tracing is concerned we would probably have to roll something ourselves. That would be one bad---- addition to mptuner though :) I'm totally down for helping with that one. Moates actually has a whole section devoted to developers including support for their hardware. I'd check out their help site and see what you can find. It's probably pretty straightforward.

I spent most of a weekend going thru the forums over there, I didn't find much of anything useful regarding address tracing. to be honest, I prefer things as straight forward as possible for this stuff - if I found anything even approaching similar to our knowledge center here, I'd have gone for it. post up if you find different, nothing jumped out at me.

[risen]

It took some digging but here it is: http://support.moates.net/2008/09/11/ostrich-20-developers-corner/ . The commands to write/read data and trace the data are all in the .xls on that page. I guess we could even do direct writes to the ostrich, if we so wanted. Perhaps it's not as straightforward as I thought, but it certainly looks powerful.

[x.Gen]

yeah, that was about the only relevant info anywhere. that, unfortunately, leaves me too cross-eyed to drive. :confused:

[risen]

It's really not all that bad, but the ability to window the traces makes it a little more complex. I guess it's up to wowzer as to whether or not he wants to put support in mptuner for this stuff.

Writing directly to the ostrich from the editor is probably the easiest. From the .xls that looks to be very straightforward. And it would eliminate the need for an emutility like program. You could have the editor write the new bin into the ostrich.

The tracing is probably a little tougher but it could be worked into something to be really nice. You could have the tables being accessed highlighted while the car is running. It could probably be brought to the point of figuring out which points in the table are being accessed pretty easily (this is where the windowing would come in handy). And if someone *REALLY* wanted to get crazy, it could probably be taken to the level of highlighting the lines in the ASM source in realtime with the proper editor.

[turbodaytona87]

So how does this hook up ti a Logic Module? Or does it?

[risen]

So how does this hook up ti a Logic Module? Or does it?

It would replace the eeprom in the LM. You'd have to pull the prom and put the adapter for the ostrich in it's place. Load a cal onto the ostrich and tune away.

[minigts]

So how does this hook up ti a Logic Module? Or does it?

Sorry to interject this again, but we have a group buy on the Ostrich system currently. We have enough to get the 20 group buy price, but I'd like to make it an official 20 or more if we can.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46245

Please, carry on. :)

[turbodaytona87]

:D Yeah I'm aware of the group buy. I won't be ready to order for a little while, end of summer at least. Will this work for the LMs then?

[minigts]

:D Yeah I'm aware of the group buy. I won't be ready to order for a little while, end of summer at least. Will this work for the LMs then?

That it will. I'm sure a few of us will post up once we get these things going, so stay tuned, no pun intended. :)

[turbodaytona87]

I like the idea that it acts like an EEPROM chip so instead of sitting chips in the sun for hours or buying a ton of chips I can rewrite to my hearts content. I also think the "sync" feature that looks for changes in the .bin file is really nice. I can't wait to order one.

[vprtech]

There's been plenty of talk about using tunerpro with our cals, but I don't think anyone has gotten down to helping Mark support it. There was a whole thread somewhere around here about that. I basically explained the table format but I'm not sure if vprtech ever communicated with Mark to have tunerpro updated.

I did communicate with Mark recently, and he said he was planning on adding support for the Chrysler function format, problem is, he also indicated that it would probably not be completed in the immediate future. Really, I think if more people contacted Mark about support for the Chrysler calibrations (i.e. send emails), he might be much more motivated to make some progress.

Recently I did a little tuning on a Z28 and his software worked extremely well. Tuner Pro has a built in data tracing option, both with the emulator or linking to variables being data logged. Being that the logging Chrysler commands are fairly straight forward, if he can help us get the baud rate switching working (cmd 12) and the timing down with his logging software, we would have a complete real time editing package with precise map tracing and integrated data logging / strip chart. I should also add, that even though the functions cannot be editied, Tuner Pro is a good option for the 3D tables used in the SBEC cals. i've been bouncing between Tuner Pro and DCAL and it's not too inconvenient.

- Chris

[wowzer]

played with the ostrich a bit today with some basic test programs. i can read the full 32k binary in 500 ms with checksum checking. additionally, i am able to read an individual 256 byte packet from the ostrich every 20 ms, i.e. fifty 256 byte packets every second. this really opens up the door to some powerful logging. i'll look at the tracing feature next. sweet.

[bakes]

Would you incorporate the logging function into MP tuner or make a whole new program? it would be nice to have it with mp tuner.

[vprtech]

Would you incorporate the logging function into MP tuner or make a whole new program? it would be nice to have it with mp tuner.

I completely agree, incorporating the logging into MP Tuner would be very useful. Specifically, it would be great to be able to link a live cursor via the X axis, on the functions, for example. On a warm up enrichment curve, if you had coolant temp as one of the logged PIDs, you could link coolant temperature to the cursor on that table, and that cursor would indicate where you were, relative to engine temperature. Tuner Pro and Binary Editor have both added this functionality, so it might help to look at one of those. With 3D look-up tables, this is even more useful, as you can link both the X and Y axis's.

I know that most people have seen map tracing, but I've linked the software below because I think it incorporates it very well.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkGrq8ACyR8

[vprtech]

played with the ostrich a bit today with some basic test programs. i can read the full 32k binary in 500 ms with checksum checking. additionally, i am able to read an individual 256 byte packet from the ostrich every 20 ms, i.e. fifty 256 byte packets every second. this really opens up the door to some powerful logging. i'll look at the tracing feature next. sweet.

Cool, I'm curious though, when you say log with the Ostrich I suppose you are not talking about the RAM ? In other words, when you say logging, I'm thinking you mean watching to see what ROM addresses are being accessed by the processor , or do you have something else in mind ?

Oh, also, I sent you a PM, please let me know if you got it.

[wowzer]

currently, mpscan only logs the lower 256 bytes of the address space, or the ram area where the active program output data is stored. so if you want to "Log" the rpm, it retrieves the value from the rpm variable stored in the ram. at this point, i don't know what can be done with the ostrich. it has a "trace" function that i have yet to try. but the goal would be to report not only ram values but table access info.

btw - i do have the flashing with the ostrich incorporated now into mptuner. i want to look more into the ostrich before i release it.

[vprtech]

currently, mpscan only logs the lower 256 bytes of the ecu, or the ram area where the active program output data is stored. so if you want to "Log" the rpm, it retrieves the value from the rpm variable stored in the ram. at this point, i don't know what can be done with the ostrich. it has a "trace" function that i have yet to try. but the goal would be to report not only ram values but table access info.

btw - i do have the flashing with the ostrich incorporated now into mptuner.

Excellent, I'm curios, did you setup MP Tuner setup to update the Ostrich every time a calibration change is made, automatically, or do you have to flash the file manually ?

- Chris

[wowzer]

right now it's set up to require you to manually flash it. i'll look at the incremental/real time stuff later. need to better understand the functionality first before doing much more.

as far as the aem video - i have NO plans to take the program to that degree, sorry. (at least for now!).

mpscan does have a LIMITED histogram type setup, which allows you to select your x axis value (e.g. map), a y axis value (e.g rpm) and a z display value (e.g. advance).

[wowzer]

Would you incorporate the logging function into MP tuner or make a whole new program? it would be nice to have it with mp tuner.

don't know!! most likely it would interface with mptuner but need to think through how mpscan fits in also. right now mpscan only logs the ram which is probably how it should stay. the beauty of alot of the other tuning programs is that they work off a fixed calibration format and directly on the binary. so the boost table is always at address 0x8011. the fuel table is always at address 0x8022. with the template format, the layouts are much more "fluid" so alot of the stuff can't be hardcoded, as well as being able to add and subtract points from a table, which in effect can shift ALL the table locations and change the actual running code.

as a group, we need to figure out the basic functionality desired. e.g. if we do not want to allow "real time" adding/deleting of table points, that would make the process much simpler (maybe).

so - let the suggestions begin. (maybe a new thread?)

[bakes]

So what is the pro's and con's of allowing real time ?( I'm learning here)

Just let us know when there is a new tread (link).