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View Full Version : Redoing the headliner, visors, and HUD.



Mopar318
12-29-2009, 10:10 AM
Well, since I do aircraft interiors for a living, and automotive upholstery on the side Ill post up some pictures and how to's on doing a headliner the "professional" way.

Here are some pictures from yesterday.

Pulled the headliner out, the only trim pieces that need to come off are the A-piller trim, and they really only need to be moved out of the way. After the sunv visors, HUD, and the 2 metal brackets in the headliner are removed the headliner will slid foward of the back to trim pieces, and you can pull it out of the either door.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/Mopar318/IMG_0040.jpg

Next I set everything on my table to be stripped. first removed all the trim so that the new material could be glued in place, and the trim installed back on.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/Mopar318/IMG_0042.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/Mopar318/IMG_0039.jpg
The guy that tried doing this before loved duct tape and what looks to be like Seel tape. I will be removing this and gluing in and mesh if the headliner is crubled at all.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/Mopar318/IMG_0041.jpg

Thats all I have right now, the 220 to my garage has turned into 110, and I found it to be a break in the wire somewhere underground. GREAT! so I have no heat in the garage, I need heet to spray the glue (above 60 degree F)

The glue I spray is Weldwood Landau top adhesive.

minigts
12-29-2009, 12:40 PM
Man when you take the headliner off PLEASE document how you do this! I had the worst time trying to remove good headliner that wasn't dry rotted.

Mopar318
12-29-2009, 12:48 PM
Man when you take the headliner off PLEASE document how you do this! I had the worst time trying to remove good headliner that wasn't dry rotted.

you mean removing the material from the board? Usually the foam is eroded enough that it just peels off and you can brush off the foam. If not you take acetone and put it in a spray bottle and soak the material. Then it will peel off.

OmniLuvr
12-30-2009, 11:46 PM
so i have an omni with he fiber board sagging, not the material, how do i remidy this? i was thinkin about flipping it upside down and letting it pop back into shape (if i push on it while installed it will pop into shape also), then brushing some fiberglass resin over it to give it rigidity again?

Mopar318
01-01-2010, 10:33 PM
so i have an omni with he fiber board sagging, not the material, how do i remidy this? i was thinkin about flipping it upside down and letting it pop back into shape (if i push on it while installed it will pop into shape also), then brushing some fiberglass resin over it to give it rigidity again?

I have repaired a really bad Trans Am T-tops board by fiberglassing it back together. I would not recomend this though as it makes it really heavy and it will probally end up breaking at some point. If its rottted to the point that it sags then its probally time to search for a new board.

Are you sure your not missing some key trip pieces? There is usuallys something that holds it up in the middle such as a dome light or HUD.

OmniLuvr
01-01-2010, 11:39 PM
well its not really rotted, the omni headliners are huge, and there is only one push pin in the center to keep it from sagging, which has now popped off from sitting. but before it popped off it was sagging on either end.

like i said, if i push on it with light pressure, it will pop back into place, and stay there for a second. just about all the omnis in the yard or anywhere else has this problem. there should be 4 push pins to hold it in place, but there is only one support bar in the center, or it needs some formed features to give it rigidity, but its a flat piece of board. so i was thinking of using just the resin, but thanks for your advise.

hows your project going?

JohnnyIroc
01-01-2010, 11:44 PM
good timing for this!

Mopar318
01-02-2010, 01:06 AM
I borrowed some kersone heaters from my father so i could get the shop back and running in the warmth.

Got the headliner done today after I got back from my vacation.

Cleaned off the old foam by wire brushing it off, then I glued in some material to reinforce where it was cracked. It was pretty bad in some spots.

I always glue one half at a time as you can see. Spray the glue on both sides and let it tack for 5 mintues before spreading out the material. If the glue your using is not yellow like this stuff, and you dont spray it out of a gun, then its not the right stuff!:thumb:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/Mopar318/DSC07546.jpg

After I had everything smoothed out I flipped it over and trimmed about 2" outside in order to fold the material over.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/Mopar318/DSC07548.jpg

Then I spray glue once again on the outside of the back side of the headliner and folded the material over. Then I cut out for the brackets, HUD, and cut slits for the sun visors.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/Mopar318/DSC07551.jpg

Went back in the car after that, had it back in the car within just a couple minutes since I only removed the 2 necesarry trim pieces.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/Mopar318/DSC07556.jpg

Mopar318
01-02-2010, 01:11 AM
well its not really rotted, the omni headliners are huge, and there is only one push pin in the center to keep it from sagging, which has now popped off from sitting. but before it popped off it was sagging on either end.

like i said, if i push on it with light pressure, it will pop back into place, and stay there for a second. just about all the omnis in the yard or anywhere else has this problem. there should be 4 push pins to hold it in place, but there is only one support bar in the center, or it needs some formed features to give it rigidity, but its a flat piece of board. so i was thinking of using just the resin, but thanks for your advise.

hows your project going?

I have done something to fix this for somebody . Used 4 super strong magnets, and glued them to the side of the headliner that the material glues too. These are flat sliver magnets you can find about 1/16" thick. After I glued on the headliner material it hid the magnets. the magnet kept the headliner from moving. The reason I did this was because the person shaved off the dome light for a clean look, and it was having sagging problems.

Here are the magnets.

http://kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BX0X01

JohnnyIroc
01-02-2010, 01:15 AM
what kind of cloth did you use in there?

Mopar318
01-02-2010, 01:24 AM
what kind of cloth did you use in there?

It is charcoal suede headliner material from one of my supliers. Runs $14/yard.

Headliner material is different the regular cloth. Its thin, stretchy material with foam laminated to it.

JohnnyIroc
01-02-2010, 01:26 AM
It is charcoal suede headliner material from one of my supliers. Runs $14/yard.

Headliner material is different the regular cloth. Its thin, stretchy material with foam laminated to it.

i thought it looked like suede
any suggestion where to get a cheap headliner cloth?

135sohc
01-02-2010, 02:42 AM
Most fabric stores carry the basic colors in stock. Outfits on ebay also sell some of the more uncommon ones.

JohnnyIroc
01-02-2010, 02:48 AM
Most fabric stores carry the basic colors in stock. Outfits on ebay also sell some of the more uncommon ones.

another thing i have to get done this winter
ill check out some fabric stores or walmart

ShelGame
01-02-2010, 10:09 AM
Sooo, the 3M spray adhesives (in the can) are no good? How long do you think they'll last? That's what I used to do the headliner in my minivan.

Mopar318
01-02-2010, 12:01 PM
Sooo, the 3M spray adhesives (in the can) are no good? How long do you think they'll last? That's what I used to do the headliner in my minivan.

Its really hard to say, I can tell you its not going to be a lifetime though. Once this adhesive is stuck, its really stuck, and you will rip it before getting it off. I use the 3m stuff in a can when I pattern parts because it just peels right off when Im done outlining for the pattern.

The suns heat really hits the headliner hard, thats why I use landau top adhesive, it doesnt gum up when it gets hot. The adhesive really is pretty cheap. Runs about 25/gallon or 80 for a 5 gallon drum. You can spray it out of any regular siphon feed gun with a 1.4 tip. Some guys at work use a crappy 5 dollar harbor freight gun and they work fine.

Mopar318
01-02-2010, 03:44 PM
I finished the Sun visors this morning. This involves cutting away the old material first, then undoing the clips to unfold the visor. Then I glued on the material, folded the material around, and then folded the visor back together. It was a real PITA. About half of the clips will break, but dont worry, it will still snap back together just fine.

After its back together I trimed about 1/2" away from the edge for the mirrors, slit the corners, and popped the mirrors back in.

Sorry about having no "in process" pictures. I was to much into it to take any pictures.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/Mopar318/104_0001.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/Mopar318/104_0005.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/Mopar318/104_0003.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/Mopar318/104_0002.jpg

JohnnyIroc
01-02-2010, 03:56 PM
lookin good

tsiconquest88
01-02-2010, 09:56 PM
there is a headliner adhesive at autozone that is not 3m and such, in fact its 12 bucks a can but works GREAT!!!! its in the section where the rtv, sealants, etc is on the shelf at the bottom where the gorilla glue, shellack ----, copper gasket spray, and all is, in a tall can. Grab that Rob. Biggest thing is cleaning the old crap off, remnants of glued, loose foam and cloth material, etc.

tsiconquest88
01-02-2010, 09:59 PM
MOPAR318 did you or a brother have a starion/conquest? A long time back i talked to a guy who put a 318 into a quest or wanted to, i forget exactly but they were from your state. He or you had a similar username as here too at the time on starquestclub and i think i met (if it was you) at a yahoo starquest group.

omni_840
01-02-2010, 10:32 PM
WOW!

That looks fantastic :nod:

Mopar318
01-03-2010, 10:38 AM
MOPAR318 did you or a brother have a starion/conquest? A long time back i talked to a guy who put a 318 into a quest or wanted to, i forget exactly but they were from your state. He or you had a similar username as here too at the time on starquestclub and i think i met (if it was you) at a yahoo starquest group.

Nope, wasnt me, nor do I know who it was. Sounds cool though.

Mopar318
01-03-2010, 02:04 PM
Finished the HUD. Oh what a royal PITA that was. My material would not stretch enough so I had to put a seam in the front, and fold it around but I made it look nice.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/Mopar318/104_0006.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/Mopar318/104_0008.jpg

bakes
01-03-2010, 02:14 PM
How do you disassemble the sun visors without breaking them?

Mopar318
01-03-2010, 02:24 PM
How do you disassemble the sun visors without breaking them?

Took my time and undid the clips the correct way. Everything just snaps back together.:thumb:

ajakeski
01-04-2010, 10:31 PM
so i have an omni with he fiber board sagging, not the material, how do i remidy this? i was thinkin about flipping it upside down and letting it pop back into shape (if i push on it while installed it will pop into shape also), then brushing some fiberglass resin over it to give it rigidity again?


Get it damp with a sprayer (Windex bottle filled with water) and suspend it upside down until it dries. That's how I got the sag out of mine before I re-covered it.

ajakeski
01-04-2010, 10:41 PM
so i have an omni with he fiber board sagging, not the material, how do i remidy this? i was thinkin about flipping it upside down and letting it pop back into shape (if i push on it while installed it will pop into shape also), then brushing some fiberglass resin over it to give it rigidity again?


Get it damp with a sprayer (Windex bottle filled with water) and suspend it upside down until it dries. That's how I got the sag out of mine before I re-covered it.

OmniLuvr
01-05-2010, 03:34 AM
sweet!

LaserXT1986
01-06-2010, 06:51 AM
Sooo, the 3M spray adhesives (in the can) are no good? How long do you think they'll last? That's what I used to do the headliner in my minivan.


Its really hard to say, I can tell you its not going to be a lifetime though. Once this adhesive is stuck, its really stuck, and you will rip it before getting it off. I use the 3m stuff in a can when I pattern parts because it just peels right off when Im done outlining for the pattern.

The suns heat really hits the headliner hard, thats why I use landau top adhesive, it doesnt gum up when it gets hot. The adhesive really is pretty cheap. Runs about 25/gallon or 80 for a 5 gallon drum. You can spray it out of any regular siphon feed gun with a 1.4 tip. Some guys at work use a crappy 5 dollar harbor freight gun and they work fine.

Not to take away anyone's useful information but.....

I actually corrected the original "Knowledge Center" listing on headliners, where it originally said 3M 77 adhesive (when the knowledge center was first starter). Super 77 adhesive would never hold up a headliner for long term use. I contacted Frank to correct it to the proper spray adhesive, 3M Super High Tack 76 Aerosol-Spray Glue.

I'm a licensed 3M fabricator & installer, and have been for many years. I have worked with 3M's line of adhesive products for more years than I have been into these cars, and that's dating myself because I was on here when SDML was just starting out. And I have put their products to the test in many aspects of many projects over the last 20 years.

In 2004 when I did my headliner (black, inside an all black G-body, with sunroof), 5 years ago, I contacted 3M. Turns out, that the 3M adhesive they advertise as headliner repair (I forget the exact name, but it has the word headliner in it) is NOT the proper one to use (go figure??). The tech on the phone said what I want is the Super High Tack 76. I was able to get it from my distributor, but you can also get it at Grainger. After 5 years of having the car sit in the same spot in the sun (it never moved as the project took a backseat), I removed the headliner, to sell it to a member on here. No signs of it coming apart, and that's after 5 years of being in a black car/black interior with the windows up the entire time (and believe me, in the summer time it ROASTED in there). I'd say that's a pretty good testament to torture....if it was going to fail (or show signs thereof), it would have started to show when I removed and sold it 5 years after I did it.

I offer this information not in any way to discredit the original poster, but rather, to offer additional information in my area of expertise. The 3M product I mentioned above is about $17 a can and 2 cans typically do a headliner (I go on the heavy side to ensure a proper coat, as a "primer coat" is recommended. This is to seal in in the imperfections on the headliner board and also due to the absorption of the foam liner, so that when it's ready to assemble, you have a true "glue to glue" bond).

Just some extra insight :thumb:

Mopar318
01-06-2010, 11:17 AM
Not to take away anyone's useful information but.....

I actually corrected the original "Knowledge Center" listing on headliners, where it originally said 3M 77 adhesive (when the knowledge center was first starter). Super 77 adhesive would never hold up a headliner for long term use. I contacted Frank to correct it to the proper spray adhesive, 3M Super High Tack 76 Aerosol-Spray Glue.

I'm a licensed 3M fabricator & installer, and have been for many years. I have worked with 3M's line of adhesive products for more years than I have been into these cars, and that's dating myself because I was on here when SDML was just starting out. And I have put their products to the test in many aspects of many projects over the last 20 years.

In 2004 when I did my headliner (black, inside an all black G-body, with sunroof), 5 years ago, I contacted 3M. Turns out, that the 3M adhesive they advertise as headliner repair (I forget the exact name, but it has the word headliner in it) is NOT the proper one to use (go figure??). The tech on the phone said what I want is the Super High Tack 76. I was able to get it from my distributor, but you can also get it at Grainger. After 5 years of having the car sit in the same spot in the sun (it never moved as the project took a backseat), I removed the headliner, to sell it to a member on here. No signs of it coming apart, and that's after 5 years of being in a black car/black interior with the windows up the entire time (and believe me, in the summer time it ROASTED in there). I'd say that's a pretty good testament to torture....if it was going to fail (or show signs thereof), it would have started to show when I removed and sold it 5 years after I did it.

I offer this information not in any way to discredit the original poster, but rather, to offer additional information in my area of expertise. The 3M product I mentioned above is about $17 a can and 2 cans typically do a headliner (I go on the heavy side to ensure a proper coat, as a "primer coat" is recommended. This is to seal in in the imperfections on the headliner board and also due to the absorption of the foam liner, so that when it's ready to assemble, you have a true "glue to glue" bond).

Just some extra insight :thumb:

Thats nice to know though. I have never even seen super 76 though, and at $17/can ouch! I just always recomend the weldwood or 3m trim and top adhesive because it cheap, and I know it works. I use about $2 worth of glue for a headliner.

LaserXT1986
01-06-2010, 06:26 PM
Thats nice to know though. I have never even seen super 76 though, and at $17/can ouch! I just always recomend the weldwood or 3m trim and top adhesive because it cheap, and I know it works. I use about $2 worth of glue for a headliner.

Yes I won't deny it's expensive. And my guess is you use $2 worth of glue because you actually are an expert in doing auto upholstery itself :D:thumb: Hell you probably could have gotten by using 1/4 of the can I used, if you used the can method. I use plenty of 3M products (vinyl, VHB tapes, laminating glues (solvent and waterbased), but this was the first time I used the "in the can" stuff. Truthfully your way is definitely cheaper but I never heard of the weldwood stuff -- is it one of those things you buy in an auto body supply warehouse?

By the way, I didn't mention in my original post, your work is SUPERB, and it was nice seeing the detailed write-up you gave doing this -- not just the headliner but the whole entire thing. The end result was *very* well done....great job! :thumb:

rich tideswell
01-06-2010, 07:17 PM
I remember buying super 76 at home depot but that was almost a decade ago. I think its used to glue the pink/ blue insulation foam to wood/ drywall/concrete as well.

135sohc
01-07-2010, 05:49 PM
So a question regarding spray glue. I've used 3M 'super 90 HD spray adhesive' for a couple things and most recently a headliner. How goes that stuff rank in durability ? its not cheap but does spray out like snot from the can and is very 'thick'.

LaserXT1986
01-08-2010, 12:56 AM
So a question regarding spray glue. I've used 3M 'super 90 HD spray adhesive' for a couple things and most recently a headliner. How goes that stuff rank in durability ? its not cheap but does spray out like snot from the can and is very 'thick'.

Super 90 is a very strong adhesive spray, but the issue with using it in a headliner application is the heat factor. I had some experience with Super 90 prior to doing my headliner, and the 3M tech made mention of the heat factor as a reason not to use it.

That said, I do know it's strong stuff, so I would think durability would be good, esp. if you are not in the blazing sun all the time (i.e., you park in the shade, or garage keep it, etc.). Also, it may be one of those things where say, "High Tack 76" is the "best" solution of their spray can adhesives (to cover all variables, in this case particularly, heat), but not necessarily the "only" one that can be used.

Mopar318
01-08-2010, 01:55 AM
Another thing to factor in when choosing a glue for upholstery purposes is its dry tack features. The glue I use I let sit for 10 mintues in some cases before I start to apply the material. This is because the glue actually dries to the touch, and it only sticks when you press it down, allowing you to smooth out, stretch, and repull any part of the material you are applying.

I have let adhesive dry on a couple pieces of material for more than 4 hours, and I went back later and it stuck together just like normal.

Another thing, when using adhesive and a non pourus material such as vinyl, you must let the adhesive completely dry, and rid of solovents before you apply the material, if you dont, the material will bubble up from gas pockets. I learned this the hard way when doing my first Vinyl headliner.

I hope my information is useful. :thumb:

J&H Ryan
01-08-2010, 02:13 AM
Great work! Also, Dave, check your PM's once and awhile ;)

cordes
01-08-2010, 02:35 AM
Great post guys. Thanks for all the info.