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rbryant
12-03-2009, 04:03 PM
All,

I am looking into some more stout lbody axles for my GLHS and may have a source for the large spline axles.


It is not quite final but tentatively....

How many people would buy a set of lbody length Saginaw SSG style axles if the price was:

Long Axle: $325
Short Axle: $225


That would make it $250 cheaper than DSS for an unequal length setup or $350 cheaper for an equal length setup.

For the first few I could waive the core charges.



After the first few core charged would be something like:

Long Axle:
$50 for each passenger side car/van SSG axle shaft and joints.

Short Axle:
$150 for the GM 13.5" shaft and chrysler joints

A car/van passenger side can be used to reduce the Short Axle core charge to $100 which will then be shortened and used on the driver side.


Let me know if you are interested...


-Rich

shelbydave
12-03-2009, 04:17 PM
I probably would be interested down the road.. I'm not sure I understand the cores though.

BadAssPerformance
12-03-2009, 04:31 PM
How many people would buy a set of lbody length Saginaw SSG style axles if the price was:

Long Axle: $325
Short Axle: $225


That would make it $250 cheaper than DSS for an unequal length setup or $350 cheaper for an equal length setup.



For $550... are they Chrome Moly, like DSS?

rbryant
12-03-2009, 05:09 PM
For $550... are they Chrome Moly, like DSS?

$550 would be for a stock style shaft with the SSG ends.

I can have chromo 4340 or even Mil spec made but it is more expensive and it really depends on the quantity.

We are a monetarily challenged group so I am starting with the cheaper option so check interest.

Do you know if DSS does a roll spline for the splines or if they just mill them? The splines become the expensive part and if not done right they will give way far before the shaft does.

How often do we see failure in the shafts compared to the joints? I usually see the joint fail for people...

-Rich

rbryant
12-03-2009, 05:15 PM
I probably would be interested down the road.. I'm not sure I understand the cores though.

The short axles can be: Chrysler SSG joints and machined GM shaft

OR

A shortened passenger SSG axle ($100 more to shorten the axle)


The Long axle is a shortened passenger SSG axle.

That is why the cores are confusing because of the options and price differences...

Anyway without a bunch of interest it will probably never happen anyway but I thought I would throw it out there.

-Rich

rx2mazda
12-03-2009, 06:36 PM
what kind of axles are the fast L-body guys running now? Reeves, Bruce, Rob? I know of a omni running low 11's on stock axles

turbovanmanČ
12-03-2009, 06:39 PM
How often do we see failure in the shafts compared to the joints? I usually see the joint fail for people...

-Rich

Its usually the shaft breaks.

BadAssPerformance
12-03-2009, 06:42 PM
$550 would be for a stock style shaft with the SSG ends.

I can have chromo 4340 or even Mil spec made but it is more expensive and it really depends on the quantity.

We are a monetarily challenged group so I am starting with the cheaper option so check interest.

Do you know if DSS does a roll spline for the splines or if they just mill them? The splines become the expensive part and if not done right they will give way far before the shaft does.

How often do we see failure in the shafts compared to the joints? I usually see the joint fail for people...

-Rich

SSG? Is that CM?

DSS axles use CM shafts and ends

they forge the tulips and mill the splines

I have seen both fail... for a drag car on slicks, the shaft is what typically snaps

rbryant
12-03-2009, 06:57 PM
SSG? Is that CM?

DSS axles use CM shafts and ends

they forge the tulips and mill the splines

I have seen both fail... for a drag car on slicks, the shaft is what typically snaps

The later model Saginaw SSG axles are actually larger than any of the stock lbody shafts so that is also something to consider.

This option is really more of a rebuilding the strongest of the stock axles for performance axle than an $800 axle. Both have their place.

If people want fully custom Mil spec (stronger than 4340) shaft with heat treated roll splined ends that can be done probably cheaper than DSS but it would be much more expensive than what I am proposing.

I was really checking to see if people wanted something much better than stock but much cheaper than DSS.

The top 1/2% of our group should get the DSS axles but most won't be willing to pay for them even if they need them.

-Rich

BadAssPerformance
12-03-2009, 07:02 PM
The later model Saginaw SSG axles are actually larger than any of the stock lbody shafts so that is also something to consider.

I was really checking to see if people wanted something much better than stock but much cheaper than DSS.

The top 1/2% of our group should get the DSS axles but most won't be willing to pay for them even if they need them.

-Rich

I am not familiar with the SSG axles, you say they are late model, but better than stock, I am confused, because "late model" implies stock to me? Late model from what? I'm guessing you mean not stock to an L-body? :confused2:

I agree that DSS axles are not needed for most applications, especially in a light L body where stock axles have run 10's.

rbryant
12-03-2009, 07:17 PM
I am not familiar with the SSG axles, you say they are late model, but better than stock, I am confused, because "late model" implies stock to me? Late model from what? I'm guessing you mean not stock to an L-body? :confused2:

I agree that DSS axles are not needed for most applications, especially in a light L body where stock axles have run 10's.

Correct the SSG axles were stock on some of the really late cars like 92+.

They have much thicker cases, etc. You can recognize them most of the time by the newer style CV boots that have 6 ribs on them (altought some GKNs also had those boots).

Either way they are much stronger than the original welded stamped steel lbody axles and they also had 1 1/16 thick shafts (so twisting the shaft would be less common).

Here is a good thread:

http://boostedmopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12058

-Rich

"Top Fuel" Bender
12-03-2009, 07:37 PM
what kind of axles are the fast L-body guys running now? Reeves, Bruce, Rob? I know of a omni running low 11's on stock axles

3-4years with local car warehouse rebuilt axles
but in a light car with an auto preloading the trans
then again I'm cutting 1.62 60's, even broke an trans. output shaft without cracking the axle

I went through 3 RP "severe duty" axles (1st car with the unelqual length setup) those were just cut down axles with the trion welded back on, snapped the shaft on (2) of them, (1) I think was do to heat treating of the metal near the weld, (1) inner cage

Hoagie (Briceturbosports) has a couple of the DSS axles
they have chromoly ends but 180' torsional centers that upsorb the shock of a launch

BadAssPerformance
12-03-2009, 07:41 PM
Gotcha... I need to look up my notes if this was a late model Saginaw or GKN axle... was from a mid-90's van... this is what I had before I went to DSS... good to ~400whp in a ~2750lb car. Should last till ~450whp in an L-body?

http://www.badassperformance.com/mrides/z/misc/24oc04_axle_01.jpg

BadAssPerformance
12-03-2009, 07:42 PM
Hoagie (Briceturbosports) has a couple of the DSS axles
they have chromoly ends but 180' torsional centers that upsorb the shock of a launch

What?

Force Fed Mopar
12-03-2009, 07:44 PM
Good luck, I can't seem to find anyone willing to pay $100 for OEM quality axles, which seem to be good to 350-400hp. Shelbymonster is running a long axle I had built for him at 25-30psi w/ street tires and slicks, over a year on it now. BTW I charge a $50 core also.

BadAssPerformance
12-03-2009, 07:49 PM
Good luck, I can't seem to find anyone willing to pay $100 for OEM quality axles, which seem to be good to 350-400hp. Shelbymonster is running a long axle I had built for him at 25-30psi w/ street tires and slicks, over a year on it now. BTW I charge a $50 core also.

A testament to the frugalness of the community... A $75 axle with a lifetime warranty seems cheap until you replace a few of them and it actually costs more with the oil for the trans and gas money to go get another axle... well, I guess there are some out there who re-use the oil, what works better a coffee filter or Bounty? :confused2: :rolleyes:

Force Fed Mopar
12-03-2009, 08:00 PM
A testament to the frugalness of the community... A $75 axle with a lifetime warranty seems cheap until you replace a few of them and it actually costs more with the oil for the trans and gas money to go get another axle... well, I guess there are some out there who re-use the oil, what works better a coffee filter or Bounty? :confused2: :rolleyes:

Exactly :nod: And I vote for the coffee filter cause I like coffee :D Not that I've ever used one, I always used new oil.

turbovanmanČ
12-03-2009, 08:15 PM
Correct the SSG axles were stock on some of the really late cars like 92+.

They have much thicker cases, etc. You can recognize them most of the time by the newer style CV boots that have 6 ribs on them (altought some GKNs also had those boots).

Either way they are much stronger than the original welded stamped steel lbody axles and they also had 1 1/16 thick shafts (so twisting the shaft would be less common).

Here is a good thread:

http://boostedmopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12058

-Rich


He's missing one jont, I run them, its a larger, round one piece inner, very thick and heavy, :nod:

I have been running these axles for 6 years, :thumb:

rbryant
12-03-2009, 09:18 PM
A testament to the frugalness of the community... A $75 axle with a lifetime warranty seems cheap until you replace a few of them and it actually costs more with the oil for the trans and gas money to go get another axle... well, I guess there are some out there who re-use the oil, what works better a coffee filter or Bounty? :confused2: :rolleyes:

I have the $75 autozone axles too and they were fine for my TII setup at 250-275hp on street tires but bumping it up a notch with the SRT4 engine changes things a bit...

-Rich

30 PSI SHADOW
12-04-2009, 12:49 AM
kelly gomers axle purple plate/ not sure if stock or DSS

GLHNSLHT2
12-04-2009, 12:55 AM
That's cheaper than the custom shortened saginaw axles I got for my Lbody and 523 tranny years ago. The guy that made them said they should withstand 500ft-lbs and slicks and dared me to try and break them that he'd replace them if I did. Too bad he retired and I still haven't gotten my setup built to use them. They're still new in the box. I wonder if they'll hold 600ft-lbs as that looks to be the way my setup is going if I could get the other projects/maintence out of the way.

The 13.5" GM shafts, is that what Boyd is using in the ugly old omni? The saginaw ends and thick shafts sure are nice. I'd buy a set if I needed them.

rbryant
12-04-2009, 12:22 PM
That's cheaper than the custom shortened saginaw axles I got for my Lbody and 523 tranny years ago. The guy that made them said they should withstand 500ft-lbs and slicks and dared me to try and break them that he'd replace them if I did. Too bad he retired and I still haven't gotten my setup built to use them. They're still new in the box. I wonder if they'll hold 600ft-lbs as that looks to be the way my setup is going if I could get the other projects/maintence out of the way.

The 13.5" GM shafts, is that what Boyd is using in the ugly old omni? The saginaw ends and thick shafts sure are nice. I'd buy a set if I needed them.

Yes the GM shaft is Boyd's setup. He is the first that I heard of that used that setup. It is surely cheaper than shortening the axles and is MUCH stronger than stock axles.

-Rich

Captain Chaos
12-04-2009, 12:35 PM
Gotcha... I need to look up my notes if this was a late model Saginaw or GKN axle... was from a mid-90's van... this is what I had before I went to DSS... good to ~400whp in a ~2750lb car. Should last till ~450whp in an L-body?

http://www.badassperformance.com/mrides/z/misc/24oc04_axle_01.jpg

Art Leong has broken multiple DSS axles in a N/A, automatic, 2.4 first gen Neon. :confused: I know for a fact his last one was broken like that.

rbryant
12-04-2009, 02:59 PM
Art Leong has broken multiple DSS axles in a N/A, automatic, 2.4 first gen Neon. :confused: I know for a fact his last one was broken like that.

That is a tough one to fix. Even DSS uses the stock tripods and I am pretty sure the splines are already heat treated on those.

I do think that it is more of a problem for you guys driving those GKJHP cars and vans which are pigs compared to the lbody.

-Rich

Ubmbass
12-04-2009, 03:09 PM
I am a firm believer that alot (not all, obviously) of axle breakage is caused by improper centering of the engine/transmission.. I ran stock axles in the van the whole time I raced, now I have some "stage 5" axles from DCR in the omni.. Who knows how well they will hold up, but we'll see.

contraption22
12-04-2009, 04:08 PM
I've seen DSS axles fail where stockers have survived.

BadAssPerformance
12-04-2009, 04:26 PM
Art Leong has broken multiple DSS axles in a N/A, automatic, 2.4 first gen Neon. :confused: I know for a fact his last one was broken like that.

Interesting... Which axles were they? DSS makes several levels for 1G neons.

ohiorob
12-07-2009, 07:29 AM
never broke an axle. drivers side NAPA 10 years old pass side gary D. 8years old. but I know my days are numbered.

Force Fed Mopar
12-07-2009, 08:54 AM
never broke an axle. drivers side NAPA 10 years old pass side gary D. 8years old. but I know my days are numbered.

I have a feeling a 10-yr old parts store axle is better than a current parts store axle ;)

rt1092
12-07-2009, 10:00 AM
Interesting... Which axles were they? DSS makes several levels for 1G neons.
Hi I run a N/A 2.4 neon 2600 pounds with an atx (trans brake)
I have broken pos dss stage 3 axles on both sides (non equal length) They break in the spline area like your picture. I was running a quaiffe posi
now running a spool (broke them in both)
There is no wheel hop, I have just about dead hook 1.74 short time. On a neon you don't have much room to center the motor, but I broke both sides, (at different times).
One main problem is the splined ends are made from inferior steel, I used the stock axles on my turbo dodges for years and never had a problem.
I have someone here in Savannah Ga that made me a set. With American made ends. He has been rebuilding axles and cv joints for years. And has told me the only time he's seen them shear is with the crap steel ends.

rt1092
12-07-2009, 10:03 AM
I have a feeling a 10-yr old parts store axle is better than a current parts store axle ;)

You are 100% right. If you get axles from a parts store get the rebuilts they are usually MUCH BETTER than the new ones.

Captain Chaos
12-07-2009, 11:02 AM
Hi I run a N/A 2.4 neon 2600 pounds with an atx (trans brake)
I have broken pos dss stage 3 axles on both sides (non equal length) They break in the spline area like your picture. I was running a quaiffe posi
now running a spool (broke them in both)
There is no wheel hop, I have just about dead hook 1.74 short time. On a neon you don't have much room to center the motor, but I broke both sides, (at different times).
One main problem is the splined ends are made from inferior steel, I used the stock axles on my turbo dodges for years and never had a problem.
I have someone here in Savannah Ga that made me a set. With American made ends. He has been rebuilding axles and cv joints for years. And has told me the only time he's seen them shear is with the crap steel ends.

Art these axles you speak of, are they for the upcoming season?

Also Art can tell you first hand how an FWD with a spool reacts when an axle fails.

"Top Fuel" Bender
12-07-2009, 11:32 AM
[QUOTE=Captain Chaos;593316
Also Art can tell you first hand how an FWD with a spool reacts when an axle fails.[/QUOTE]
at sdac 18 I broke an axle on the launch with my welded diff.
just to be ----y I turned the wheel about 45' an kept on it
think I ran a 12.4 smoking the left tire with the wheel turned

I've heard myths of the axle snapping and smashing you into the wall
it just got easier to steer and had to countersteer a little to keep straight under w.o.t.

rt1092
12-07-2009, 11:33 AM
Art these axles you speak of, are they for the upcoming season?

Also Art can tell you first hand how an FWD with a spool reacts when an axle fails.

Yes they are for next season. This season ended for me when I broke an axle at Orlando Fl. I only had one more race to go to so I packed it in for the year.
I'm doing a "real" motor for next year. And getting a set of side gears that will bring my final drive to 4.61 to 1.
I broke the both axles on the lauch. With the posi it was like I dropped it into nuetral. With the spool the car veered to the right some (the passenger side broke). I was able to drive it back and into the trailer.
Nothing I couldn't easily control. I was afraid of what would happen when I broke one. Now my mind is at ease.

Captain Chaos
12-07-2009, 12:01 PM
Yes they are for next season. This season ended for me when I broke an axle at Orlando Fl. I only had one more race to go to so I packed it in for the year.
I'm doing a "real" motor for next year. And getting a set of side gears that will bring my final drive to 4.61 to 1.
I broke the both axles on the lauch. With the posi it was like I dropped it into nuetral. With the spool the car veered to the right some (the passenger side broke). I was able to drive it back and into the trailer.
Nothing I couldn't easily control. I was afraid of what would happen when I broke one. Now my mind is at ease.

I was at Orlando when you broke it with the spool, you were what about 100' out? Nothing too violent at that point.

rbryant
12-07-2009, 02:14 PM
It haven't ever snapped on but it seems like it would really do a number on other components in the engine bay with it flopping around in there.

Anyway it doesn't look like anyone actually wants a set but I will probably make up a set for myself in the upcoming weeks anyway.

-Rich

BadAssPerformance
12-07-2009, 02:21 PM
Hi I run a N/A 2.4 neon 2600 pounds with an atx (trans brake)
I have broken pos dss stage 3 axles on both sides (non equal length) They break in the spline area like your picture. I was running a quaiffe posi
now running a spool (broke them in both)
There is no wheel hop, I have just about dead hook 1.74 short time. On a neon you don't have much room to center the motor, but I broke both sides, (at different times).
One main problem is the splined ends are made from inferior steel, I used the stock axles on my turbo dodges for years and never had a problem.
I have someone here in Savannah Ga that made me a set. With American made ends. He has been rebuilding axles and cv joints for years. And has told me the only time he's seen them shear is with the crap steel ends.

Good info... I am assuming the L3 neon axles the larger (like the old school turbo moapr) spline?

minigts
12-07-2009, 02:25 PM
Rich I'd be in for just about anything you'd make, but it will be a few months before I can commit. I'm in a limbo state right now with my current contract job, so if they bring me back in January, I'll be in. If not, I will have to pass for now. :( I'm hoping to find something out in the next couple of weeks.

black86glhs
12-07-2009, 04:35 PM
I have always thought that many of the axles break due to too much preload on the splined area. In other words, the center shaft between to 2 CVs is a hair too long. This puts more stress on the area where the splines end on the CV stub shafts and they are already under a lot of stress just from being beat on. Plus you add the cycling of the suspension put a side load on the splined area. When the supension drops, it pulls down on the joint. Then you add the torque and snap. Its the CV's that need to be stronger(in most cases). I wonder if cryo treating them would be a benefit?

rt1092
12-07-2009, 05:34 PM
Good info... I am assuming the L3 neon axles the larger (like the old school turbo moapr) spline?
Same spline as the 87 and up turbo dodges. But they use (PITA)c clips instead of springs in the axles., To hold them in.

contraption22
12-07-2009, 05:34 PM
what kind of axles are the fast L-body guys running now? Reeves, Bruce, Rob? I know of a omni running low 11's on stock axles

I'm running stock Fenco Remans from PepBoys. I have at least 5 seasons on them. I don't know how many passes. I have never had one break, but I have had the boots replaced. The clamps weren't tight enough for 100+mph trap speeds. My guess is it's not a very common complaint with Omni axles. :eyebrows:

rt1092
12-07-2009, 05:41 PM
I have always thought that many of the axles break due to too much preload on the splined area. In other words, the center shaft between to 2 CVs is a hair too long. This puts more stress on the area where the splines end on the CV stub shafts and they are already under a lot of stress just from being beat on. Plus you add the cycling of the suspension put a side load on the splined area. When the supension drops, it pulls down on the joint. Then you add the torque and snap. Its the CV's that need to be stronger(in most cases). I wonder if cryo treating them would be a benefit?


I was going to have a set stress relieved, Rem finished, Cryoed, and heat treated. Like I had done to the ring and pinion. (seems to have worked BTW)But the guy thats doing my axles talked me into saving the money. He explained that he has seen a lot of the imported junk break where mine broke. But he never saw a stock (older) factory unit break. They do wear out due to ripped boots etc. But not break the way mine did.
We will see. Next season.

Captain Chaos
12-07-2009, 05:43 PM
We will see. Next season.

You running Bradenton, Orlando, and Gainesville Div 2?

rt1092
12-07-2009, 06:08 PM
You running Bradenton, Orlando, and Gainesville Div 2?

I'm planning on it.

Force Fed Mopar
12-07-2009, 09:14 PM
I think the problem sometimes w/ treating the metal, is it makes it too hard, which makes it brittle. On something that gets a shock load like axles or ring gears, you don't want too hard of a metal, there needs to be some spring in it.

black86glhs
12-07-2009, 10:19 PM
I think the problem sometimes w/ treating the metal, is it makes it too hard, which makes it brittle. On something that gets a shock load like axles or ring gears, you don't want too hard of a metal, there needs to be some spring in it.

Lets make some axle shafts from torsion bars!!!! Talk about neck snapping!:clap:

SUPER60omni
02-24-2010, 07:55 PM
I break some shafts but usually the tripod end piece actually "opens up" and it gets all sloppy. I guess the stockers dont like 600Ft/lbs. Im kinda interested in this thread now.

rbryant
02-24-2010, 08:33 PM
I break some shafts but usually the tripod end piece actually "opens up" and it gets all sloppy. I guess the stockers dont like 600Ft/lbs. Im kinda interested in this thread now.

I haven't really pursued this much lately. I think I was the only one that wanted a set and I have a stock set that will get me by for now.

-Rich

rbryant
03-17-2010, 12:30 PM
I just got around to getting some of these made.

They will ship out today or tomorrow and I will take pictures comparing them to autozone remans after I get them.

-Rich

black86glhs
03-17-2010, 05:09 PM
I just got around to getting some of these made.

They will ship out today or tomorrow and I will take pictures comparing them to autozone remans after I get them.

-Rich

Rich, that would be great to see the differences between the 2.

Mr overkill
03-22-2010, 08:22 AM
keep us updated i am looking for a upgraded set for my daytona

rbryant
03-22-2010, 06:16 PM
keep us updated i am looking for a upgraded set for my daytona

The Daytona is much easier to deal with because the laster cars like 94+ V6s they came with the heavy duty saginaw axles from the factory. Unfortunately they are too long for the lbody.

I can get high quality non lbody axles for the daytona for something like $400/pair if you are interested.

Most people here usually just look for junkyard Saginaw axles and use those so I don't think many people would buy them...

-Rich

rbryant
03-25-2010, 02:29 AM
Here are the comparison pictures (not that there is any comparison).

These are no nonsense axles. The joints are the biggest ones we can get. They are built with the best components available without custom making shafts and dramatically increasing the price.

They are also done in black rather than some silly bright color because bright colors add to the costs for some reason....

The Saginaw joints are just huge in comparison to the basic autozone reman joints.

All 4 axles.
21358

To avoid core charges on harder to find inner joints he used a newer style inner joint that had been cut for an oring. The oring was removed and the 80s style inner spring was installed. I was assured that the oring groove will not weaken the axle in any way.

No tin can construction here...
21359

1 1/16" shaft
21360

Passenger side inner joints. Chinese cast joint vs SSG.
21361

-Rich

BadAssPerformance
03-25-2010, 08:44 AM
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21361

The OEM Saginaw joints our cars came with have a round can. The trilobular joint you have pictured looks strangely familiar to the GKN design.

rbryant
03-25-2010, 12:38 PM
The OEM Saginaw joints our cars came with have a round can. The trilobular joint you have pictured looks strangely familiar to the GKN design.

There are two types of Saginaw joints. The old style saginaws and the newer Saginaw SSGs. The SSGs are the ones pictured here.

They look very similar to GKNs but are just slightly thicker and have a different inner spline.


-Rich

30 PSI SHADOW
03-29-2010, 11:39 PM
the passenger side shaft is still the hollow shaft? I thought it was mentioned that the solid shaft was stronger??

BadAssPerformance
03-29-2010, 11:50 PM
The only solid long axles I have seen are DSS... and yes they are strong... no welds

EDIT: trying to find the pic of Joe O'Conners twisted tube axle, but cant seem to find it

rbryant
03-30-2010, 12:14 AM
the passenger side shaft is still the hollow shaft? I thought it was mentioned that the solid shaft was stronger??

A solid tube doesn't add that much strength over a hollow tube.

With that being said the weak point is probably the weld rather than the tube its self. IIRC from my discussion with the builder in some ways the tube is actually better because it can more easily spring back than a solid axle can.

Without making full custom shafts this is the best that I can do.

As I said these are upgraded axles but are still done on a budget.

If people were willing to pay for it I could do military spec roll splined shafts but there is no way that we would be able to get a group buy together for axles that are $500 each.

-Rich

rbryant
03-30-2010, 12:16 AM
The only solid long axles I have seen are DSS... and yes they are strong... no welds

EDIT: trying to find the pic of Joe O'Conners twisted tube axle, but cant seem to find it

Like I said I am still on a budget with these axles. I didn't think that it was worth trying to compete with DSS. To make something better for the same price I would need larger volumes than what is possible.

-Rich

BadAssPerformance
03-30-2010, 12:22 AM
A solid tube doesn't add that much strength over a hollow tube.

If a large enough moment of inertia a tube is stronger than solid bar, especially for strength vs. weight, thats why they use hollow tubes


With that being said the weak point is probably the weld rather than the tube its self. IIRC from my discussion with the builder in some ways the tube is actually better because it can more easily spring back than a solid axle can.

Spring back is more material/treatment related than if it is solid bar or tube


Without making full custom shafts this is the best that I can do.

As I said these are upgraded axles but are still done on a budget.


And they will probably work for most applications :thumb:

Mr overkill
03-30-2010, 06:53 AM
bad --- how can you id the difference between a gkn inner to a signaw inner bu looking at them since they look the same ????

Mr overkill
03-30-2010, 07:31 AM
oops i ment rbryant

30 PSI SHADOW
03-30-2010, 10:18 AM
so you are selling these??

omni_840
03-30-2010, 12:40 PM
so you are selling these??

Good question:nod:

rbryant
03-30-2010, 01:20 PM
so you are selling these??

I have had two sets made so far.

Fishcleaner has a pair which should arrive to him any day now and I have the other pair.

If people are serious and can pay upfront then yes I will sell them.

I don't normally charge until I ship things but these are not something that I want to have an inventory of due to the high price.


It takes a week or two to get them made:

They are $575 shipped. for an UNequal length setup with the long passenger side axle.

They are $475 shipped for an equal length setup (using your own intermediate shaft). I don't recommend this setup but it is an option.

The equal length setup is cheaper because they charge me $100 to modify the long axle length and I am not marking that up at all to try and keep the prices reasonable.

Shipping on them is about $50/pair which is one of the problems with selling them. The supplier isn't a fan of drop shipping because in the past people have gotten axles and then contacted him directly bypassing his retailers. That would be fine except his retailers (in this case me) spend time to research them and then get cut out of business. I will talk to him again to see if he can blind ship. If he can then I can probably get the price a little lower but there are no guarantees.

Considering that there are no core charges I still think they are a good deal.

-Rich

BadAssPerformance
03-30-2010, 01:25 PM
So what exactly are these? Stock SSG axles shortened to fit an L-Body?

rbryant
03-30-2010, 01:35 PM
So what exactly are these? Stock SSG axles shortened to fit an L-Body?

Yes that is basically what they are.

The driver side has a GM SSG "Boyd Shaft" and the passenger is shortened.

They are done by a large CV shop that provides axles to top end sports cars and several race teams.

It is basically as strong as you can get using stock components without making fully custom shafts.

SSG axles are known to be very strong. They aren't unbreakable but they are much better than stock lbody axles and much cheaper than DSS axles.

-Rich

BadAssPerformance
03-30-2010, 02:00 PM
"Boyd Shaft" ?

yeah, nothing is unbreakable! :)

rbryant
03-30-2010, 02:26 PM
"Boyd Shaft" ?


Hehe yea "Boyd Shaft."

Boyd was the innovator of using the GM shaft with Chrysler Joints so just giving credit where credit is due.

I am pretty sure I am giving the credit to the right person...

At any rate...

Half of our fast guys are just running reman axles so these will be more than what most people need. Some people may want DSS type axles at autozone reman prices but that isn't going to happen.


These IMO are the axle for people that want better than stock lbody axles and don't want/need to pay for DSS. I tried to make that as clear as possible when starting the thread.

Realistically I don't feel there is a market to make better than DSS so that is not what I am trying to do. I mentioned fully custom shafts initially to see if there was interest and there clearly wasn't so the option is no longer on the table. I am also not interested in making something that is equal to DSS but only slightly cheaper because it doesn't add any new utility to our cars and my time is better spent on other things, products, etc.

-Rich

30 PSI SHADOW
04-01-2010, 11:48 AM
interesting! Just got a pass. side axle to replace. Got it at Advance auto. Brand new no core charge. 70$?

Anyways, The shaft appears stronger, and look at the joints! no tin can stuff there! All brandy new. I do ask, are these the Upgraded joints we spoke of??

rbryant
04-01-2010, 01:11 PM
interesting! Just got a pass. side axle to replace. Got it at Advance auto. Brand new no core charge. 70$?

Anyways, The shaft appears stronger, and look at the joints! no tin can stuff there! All brandy new. I do ask, are these the Upgraded joints we spoke of??

Not sure. Those could be Chinese joints. They appear to be different than the Saginaws. Or perhaps they are a GKN joint.

-Rich

Aries_Turbo
04-01-2010, 02:09 PM
both of the 2.5L TBI k cars that came through my yard had saginaw hard boot axles. probably the early ones but they are ssg's.

Brian

rbryant
04-01-2010, 02:55 PM
both of the 2.5L TBI k cars that came through my yard had saginaw hard boot axles. probably the early ones but they are ssg's.

Brian

We use SSG to mean late model saginaws not any saginaw.

-Rich

BadAssPerformance
04-02-2010, 12:39 AM
interesting! Just got a pass. side axle to replace. Got it at Advance auto. Brand new no core charge. 70$?

Anyways, The shaft appears stronger, and look at the joints! no tin can stuff there! All brandy new. I do ask, are these the Upgraded joints we spoke of??

What brand are they?

135sohc
04-02-2010, 02:34 AM
Those look like GSP axles going by the blue box.

Shadow
04-09-2010, 11:29 PM
what kind of axles are the fast L-body guys running now? Reeves, Bruce, Rob? I know of a omni running low 11's on stock axles

Stock


never broke an axle.

Same here. I snapped a solid u-joint in half 4 years ago or so, which prompted me to perfect the weak equal axel set-up on these cars. Never a problem since. (knock on wood)

Reeves
04-20-2010, 02:02 PM
How often do we see failure in the shafts compared to the joints? I usually see the joint fail for people...

-Rich

Both.
I don't *think* I've broken a joint since I went with Alabama Man/Relentless Performance/Cannon's Racks and Axles. I have broken at least 3 or more shafts with these though.
I used to break the joints all the time with Autozone axles. 17 of them to be exact.



Its usually the shaft breaks.

After you get good joints, yes, it's the shaft that breaks.


Hoagie (Briceturbosports) has a couple of the DSS axles
they have chromoly ends but 180' torsional centers that upsorb the shock of a launch

180 feet of torsional center?


A testament to the frugalness of the community... A $75 axle with a lifetime warranty seems cheap until you replace a few of them and it actually costs more with the oil for the trans and gas money to go get another axle... well, I guess there are some out there who re-use the oil, what works better a coffee filter or Bounty? :confused2: :rolleyes:

Paint strainer in a funnel.


I have the $75 autozone axles too and they were fine for my TII setup at 250-275hp on street tires but bumping it up a notch with the SRT4 engine changes things a bit...
-Rich

Right!


I break some shafts but usually the tripod end piece actually "opens up" and it gets all sloppy. I guess the stockers dont like 600Ft/lbs. Im kinda interested in this thread now.

The ones that "opens up" are the one's with the tin can. Are these what you speak of? I have some cool one's on display in the shop!

"Top Fuel" Bender
04-20-2010, 02:42 PM
180 degrees , can't find a degree button

onerippinturbo2
04-21-2010, 12:52 AM
i had a buddy that worked for neapco drive line co. back in the early 90's, he got to be friends with a couple of the RnD engineers and told them about my car and how it would shatter c.v joints like nothing, so long story short, i got some off the wall joints and axles from neapco that are damn near bullet proof, it took 12 tries before they gave me these to try, granted i haven't ran the car in quite a while, but when i was running it, it was balls to the wall all the time, dropping the clutch at 5 grand,125hp nitrous hole shots in second gear the heat the tires up on top of 20 psi boost countless street races in phila. as well as passes down the track, no troubles with them.