Reeves' OMNI GLH-R Update!

[Reeves]

I do not remember if I already posted this in this thread but safety wire worked for me: 3980739808

I think mine is a little easier to remove and install but yours works too!

39809

[135sohc]

No doubt. I dont make it a regular thing to R&R my transmission like you :p so a more permanent fix suited me.

[Pat]

That sucks about the turbo...are you going to have it ready for SDAC?

[Rampage16V]

Liking the e clips!!!

[cordes]

As others have mentioned, that is a real downer about the turbo. What's your game plan on that front?

[8valves]

As others have mentioned, that is a real downer about the turbo. What's your game plan on that front?

James and I were discussing the car a lot the last week and we came to conclusion that a Jackson Racing supercharger unit from a Honda Prelude kit would be a better alternative for his goals.

:p

[Shadow]

Did they warranty the first one? Is the thrust bearing going out (end play) or the shaft bearings? (or both?)

[Reeves]

That sucks about the turbo...are you going to have it ready for SDAC?

Hoping to have it all buttoned up tomorrow and start street tuning. Buschur Sport Compact Nationals at Summit Motorsports Park in Norwalk, OH is June 2nd and 3rd. Rob Pachner, Jon Moore, and I are all hoping to race!


As others have mentioned, that is a real downer about the turbo. What's your game plan on that front?

See above and below.


James and I were discussing the car a lot the last week and we came to conclusion that a Jackson Racing supercharger unit from a Honda Prelude kit would be a better alternative for his goals.

:p


Did they warranty the first one? Is the thrust bearing going out (end play) or the shaft bearings? (or both?)

F NO! A-holes! I sold my 6152 to Larry Buford and he said all bearings were pretty much trash, I sent my 6262 back to Precision to be inspected and they said all bearings were trash and the only thing salvageable was the turbine housing. WTF.

[Pat]

Did you go with another Precision?

[Reeves]

Did you go with another Precision?

No sir! They customer service really ticked me off.

[Pat]

Ooohhh....can't wait to see what huffer you have on there now! Good luck!

[bakes]

The one thing that happen to a freind, he tried a paxton from a 5.0l mustang and he snaped the crank nose off 2 crank before he went back to a turbo. now it worked well but he couldn't trust it and with the last cam he had it became a valve bender.

[cordes]

Wow, that really sucks about the turbo not being warrantied. Summit Racing has nothing on them. Another company for the list I guess.

[turboshad]

Sucks about the Precision James. So who did you end up going with for the new one? C'mon, spill the beans. Any pics?





































How about now?

[turbovanman²]

Now?

Sorry man, so what did you go with??? The electric squirrel cage supercharger? Much better than the Jackson racing model, :lol:

[bakes]

Holset . Holset . Holset ........ LOL

[168glhs1986]

A super60? :lol: oh wait, the 80's are over.

[Reeves]

39823

[cordes]

Wow, that's a pretty large looking turbine housing.

[turbovanman²]

Garrett DBB?

[turbo2point2]

Bullseye FTMFW! Don't know if thats what it is or not just had to throw that out there :thumb:

[turboshad]

I vote OBX

[Aries_Turbo]

is it your oil filter killing the turbos?

[8valves]

Wow, that's a pretty large looking turbine housing.

Good eye.

[Directconnection]

I vote OBX

Shows what you know Mr. "I run 10's" That's the new APC triple journal Superb 80 with a .82 ARG

[Pat]

Get that on ebay? :-)

[turbovanman²]

Get that on ebay? :-)

Probably last longer than the Precision turbo's, hehehe, :eyebrows:

[turboshad]

Shows what you know Mr. "I run 10's"

That's Mr. "almost 8s" to you.

[contraption22]

FPGreen! Super20G! DCR ported S3 w/3" anti-surge inlet mod!

[Reeves]

FPGreen! Super20G! DCR ported S3 w/3" anti-surge inlet mod!

Don't forget the dual ceramic ball bearings in the wastegate!

[BadAssPerformance]

39823

Sweet!


is it your oil filter killing the turbos?

Depends on what got killed and how... if it is the turbo bearings/seals that went, could be:
-engine bearing material in the turbo bearings (filter should prevent this)
-wear on the bearings from insufficient lubrication (filter and/or restrictor may have caused it)
-damaged bearings from too much shaft loading (caused by too big of wheel(s) and pressure than the bearing designed for)

...but it could also be a combo of those


That's Mr. "almost 8s" to you.

Wow you're starting to sound more like Carroll ;)

[Aries_Turbo]

Depends on what got killed and how... if it is the turbo bearings/seals that went, could be:
-engine bearing material in the turbo bearings (filter should prevent this)
-wear on the bearings from insufficient lubrication (filter and/or restrictor may have caused it)
-damaged bearings from too much shaft loading (caused by too big of wheel(s) and pressure than the bearing designed for)

...but it could also be a combo of those

only reason i ask is just in case the sintered bronze element of the mcmaster oil filter was getting clogged or being too much of a restriction to the flow since 3 turbos in a row had trashed bearings.

Brian

[Reeves]

Wow you're starting to sound more like Carroll ;)

LOL


only reason i ask is just in case the sintered bronze element of the mcmaster oil filter was getting clogged or being too much of a restriction to the flow since 3 turbos in a row had trashed bearings.

Brian

2 turbo's had trashed bearings. Both Precisions. Other turbo's have been fine.

[rx2mazda]

Wow you're starting to sound more like Carroll ;)

F you and your "Street Car". lol

[BadAssPerformance]

F you and your "Street Car". lol

LOL, if the rain dries up, might drive it on the street today :D

[Aries_Turbo]

2 turbo's had trashed bearings. Both Precisions. Other turbo's have been fine.

oic. i reread what you wrote about selling your 6152 to larry.

i thought you meant that you had 1 6152 and 2 6262's die a painful death.

Brian

[Reeves]

oic. i reread what you wrote about selling your 6152 to larry.

i thought you meant that you had 1 6152 and 2 6262's die a painful death.

Brian

Nope, fortunately just one of each....lol. New turbo is on. It was recommended to use a .035" restrictor on it if oil pressure is over 60psi. I opened the restrictor .073" to be on the safe side and as a experiment. No smoke coming out tailpipe, so I hope it's good! Has a good flow of oil coming out the drain.


F you and your "Street Car". lol

LOL

[BadAssPerformance]

New turbo BB or JB?

[Reeves]

new turbo bb or jb?

bbftw

[86Shelby]

Good to hear, rumor has it that jb can get you jail time.

[BadAssPerformance]

bbftw

bbftw doesn't need much oil... I have a .035" restrictor after a secondary oil filter, seems to work OK

[turbovanman²]

So what turbo?

[Reeves]

I ended up going with this one:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/12/big_turbo_250-op.jpg

Getting a little bit of surge on the lower end. Wish I would have went with a surge cover.

Also, not sure my ATP ultimate swingvalve is up to the task.

[turbovanman²]

Wow, "dodging" the question or what? :(

Yeah, that ATP won't be up to the task at all.

[Pat]

I ended up going with this one:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/12/big_turbo_250-op.jpg

Getting a little bit of surge on the lower end. Wish I would have went with a surge cover.

Also, not sure my ATP ultimate swingvalve is up to the task.

Dig the air filter...at least it wont ingest large children.

[8valves]

I feel like someone told you to get the ported shroud cover...;)

[turbovanman²]

What turbo? :mad:

[Shadow]

Simon, he posted pick of the turbo already, thought you of all ppl would have recognized it! lol

[turbovanman²]

Simon, he posted pick of the turbo already, thought you of all ppl would have recognized it! lol

Yeah, I guessed Garrett DBB but he hasn't posted up exactly what it is yet, :(

[Shadow]

Yeah, I guessed Garrett DBB but he hasn't posted up exactly what it is yet, :(

Well he's obviously trying to get your goat, He shot me a fiver to KMMS and I'm gussing I'm not the only one..............































:p

[turbovanman²]

Bah, lol.

Fine, I don't want to know, :p

[Shadow]

There ya go, sides, he's not going to tell anyways, everythings Hush Hush lately! ;)

[contraption22]

Stock Mitsu.

[Reeves]

In all honesty, I keep things hush on purpose when I need to, and definitely not because I'm trying to one up someone. I gladly share my knowledge, successes, and losses. Right now I'm keeping hush because this turbo is super experimental and goes against a lot of logic and I don't want to start any sh*t wars in my thread.......yet. That'll also keep me and others that have had a hand in this from 2nd guessing ourselves.

I need more time on it to determine if it truly is an upgrade or not.

I CAN tell you for a fact, this thing is WAY more fun on the street! Top end is still dangerous as hell, so I would need to control that on the street way better than I have currently and in the past.



On to other things:
Raced at the Sport Compact Nationals at Summit Motorsports Park this past Sunday. Great event! Love that track. Was cutting mid 1.6' most of the day and one low 1.7.
This was only my 2nd time at the track with new radiator, electric water pump, new fan setup, new battery, new alternator bracketry, new smaller alternator pulley, new shifter cables, and adding the 3rd fork pad. I have to say that those all seem to be working great. No more charging issues to speak of. I am still getting hot on the top end of the track. My thoughts are that maybe the t-stat is staying closed until it's too late? I might experiment with restrictors instead of a t-stat.
Also no mis-shifts all day, although I have to retrain myself to quit lifting between shifts, which I failed at all day.

This was my first race on new turbo. Took me a while to get the boost up where I wanted it (turbo is narrower, so guessed at the actuator adjustment) but when I got it near where I was last year we started running a lot better.

Ran low 11's and one 10.9 at around 130 to 133 mph. Not bad I guess for first time out on turbo.....

Got bad noises coming from bottom of motor now. Took oil pan off last night and don't see anything wrong at the moment. Will pull rod bearings and main caps probably Wednesday or Thursday evening.

[turbovanman²]

Gotcha, ;)

[BadAssPerformance]

*fingers crossed* bottom end noises are not too bad

[cordes]

That's great to hear Reeves. Well, all except the bottom end noises. Is this still the same 2.5 that you've had in there for the last few years? You've gotten your money's worth out of that one so far for sure if that's the case. Hopefully you get more moneys worth out of it.

[Reeves]

*fingers crossed* bottom end noises are not too bad

Meeee tooooo!!!!! I don't think could pull off a short block rebuild before SDAC :( :( :(


That's great to hear Reeves. Well, all except the bottom end noises. Is this still the same 2.5 that you've had in there for the last few years? You've gotten your money's worth out of that one so far for sure if that's the case. Hopefully you get more moneys worth out of it.

I wanted to pull this short block out and freshed it up this past winter, but my buddies at the machine shop told me to "give'er'another'yer" and I listened. Hope that is not going to bite me.

[Pat]

Took oil pan off last night and don't see anything wrong at the moment. Will pull rod bearings and main caps probably Wednesday or Thursday evening.

Uh oh...fingers crossed for you buddy!

[Shadow]

In all honesty, I keep things hush on purpose when I need to, and definitely not because I'm trying to one up someone. I gladly share my knowledge, successes, and losses. Right now I'm keeping hush because this turbo is super experimental and goes against a lot of logic and I don't want to start any sh*t wars in my thread.......yet. That'll also keep me and others that have had a hand in this from 2nd guessing ourselves.

I need more time on it to determine if it truly is an upgrade or not.

I CAN tell you for a fact, this thing is WAY more fun on the street! Top end is still dangerous as hell, so I would need to control that on the street way better than I have currently and in the past.



On to other things:
Raced at the Sport Compact Nationals at Summit Motorsports Park this past Sunday. Great event! Love that track. Was cutting mid 1.6' most of the day and one low 1.7.
This was only my 2nd time at the track with new radiator, electric water pump, new fan setup, new battery, new alternator bracketry, new smaller alternator pulley, new shifter cables, and adding the 3rd fork pad. I have to say that those all seem to be working great. No more charging issues to speak of. I am still getting hot on the top end of the track. My thoughts are that maybe the t-stat is staying closed until it's too late? I might experiment with restrictors instead of a t-stat.
Also no mis-shifts all day, although I have to retrain myself to quit lifting between shifts, which I failed at all day.

This was my first race on new turbo. Took me a while to get the boost up where I wanted it (turbo is narrower, so guessed at the actuator adjustment) but when I got it near where I was last year we started running a lot better.

Ran low 11's and one 10.9 at around 130 to 133 mph. Not bad I guess for first time out on turbo.....

Got bad noises coming from bottom of motor now. Took oil pan off last night and don't see anything wrong at the moment. Will pull rod bearings and main caps probably Wednesday or Thursday evening.

Very cool, and now I know Exactly what I need to do to get you to "spill the beans"! lol (just ribbin ya bro!)

Also, deff get rid of the T-stat, did that years ago on advise from a good friend and have never looked back! And I hear you on the foot lifting thingy! Fought with that for years and finally started to get a handle on it last fall. Next time out will tell IF I mastered it or IF I just have to start the fight all over again! lol

[Reeves]

Also, deff get rid of the T-stat, did that years ago on advise from a good friend and have never looked back! And I hear you on the foot lifting thingy! Fought with that for years and finally started to get a handle on it last fall. Next time out will tell IF I mastered it or IF I just have to start the fight all over again! lol

So did you use a restrictor, or just ditch the T-stat and leave a big hole in it's place? I hope the latter.

For YEARS I never ever lifted on a shift....then I started having shifting problems and started lifting....now it's hard to get back into not lifting. Dang. LOL. I'm not sure why as I rarely lift on my DD Neon R/T.

[Shadow]

So did you use a restrictor, or just ditch the T-stat and leave a big hole in it's place? I hope the latter.

For YEARS I never ever lifted on a shift....then I started having shifting problems and started lifting....now it's hard to get back into not lifting. Dang. LOL. I'm not sure why as I rarely lift on my DD Neon R/T.

I hear ya! It's the big HP thing, blow a shift on a low HP application and whatever, Blow a shift at 500+WHP and 7000+rpm and it Could mean big trouble. I too use to WOT shift Everything I drove until I started driving customers cars at the track. I found that (up to mid 11's) I was able to run some good times just shifting fast, but still granny on the right foot. Like you say, once you get away from it, it's dang hard to just flip the switch, like your all nervous and then you start making mistake from nerves.

It's a rythm to say the least, and you need to "feel it" at least I do. Biggest problem I was having was spinning through 2nd. I would WOT shift 2nd and spin the slicks, then on the next pass my lizard brain would lift the throttle thinking it will get me better traction! lol

On the T-stat I made an AL plate (like the one the TIII's use on the water pump redirect) and drilled a 5/8 hole in it. Now I never had cooling problem before unless I would run before the T-state opened. I usually would drive to the line, so usually wasn't a problem. Never a problem after installing it, Charger only comes up to 1/2 temp on the return trip, runs 1/4 on the factory gauge all the way down the track.

I believe it was Warren who brought my attention to the plate and hole and other than the car running a little cold on the street in late fall or early spring, you'd never know the difference.

[Reeves]

So you are basically saying you have a 5/8" restrictor?

[8valves]

We never used one at all on the Talon, nor a restrictor. Just let the car warm up longer before driving to the lanes. It's better for it anyways to get your oil temps up to par, but not have outrageous coolant temps.

It's too bad Marra figured out the secret sauce turbo combo though. Damn the witty ones. ;)

[BadAssPerformance]

Got an update.. clean oil, good rod and main bearings... WTF!?


As for shifting... yep, I've never been able to WOT flat foot shift, except on a couple runs :(

[bakes]

The noise wasn't coing from the clutch area by chance or the wistpins?

[BadAssPerformance]

The noise wasn't coing from the clutch area by chance or the wistpins?

We may have a winner here...

Reeves has it figured out, I'll let him fill us in :thumb:

[Shadow]

So you are basically saying you have a 5/8" restrictor?

Correct, 1/8" aluminum plate across the T-state housing with 5/8" hole drilled in the middle. Runs so cool I could prob go down to 1/2" but have never bothered.

---------- Post added at 10:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 PM ----------


We never used one at all on the Talon, nor a restrictor. Just let the car warm up longer before driving to the lanes. It's better for it anyways to get your oil temps up to par, but not have outrageous coolant temps.



That may work on a drag only car, but it doesn't work well on the street, coolant needs more time in the rad to cool off before rentering the mtr. Otherwise it will continue to heat up untill it boils over or IF you have a good fan it will be on all the time.

[Turbo3Iroc]

I've heard loose pressure plate bolts sound like bottom end noise.

[Reeves]

As JT stated, I pulled oil pump. Oil pump looks good, as well as gear on the pump and intermediate shaft. I pulled all rod bearings and inspected...no bad signs on them. Pulled main bearings, no bad signs there either. Dang...wtf. Took a beer break and text a few close gear heads. JT text back if I had checked the flywheel bolts. Hmm.....no I haven't...... Grabbed a pry bar and wiggled the flywheel. DEFINITELY loose!!!!

Wooohooo.....hotdayum!

[contraption22]

Thumbs up for Rock & Roll!

[Pat]

39986


^^^ Reeves last night after finding the loose flywheel! ^^^^^

[Reeves]

39986


^^^ Reeves last night after finding the loose flywheel! ^^^^^

You got it!!!!

[BadAssPerformance]

Beer breaks solve problems :thumb:

[Reeves]

Beer breaks solve problems :thumb:

TOTAL believer in that!

[BadFastGTC]

4 stock mitsus.....

---------- Post added at 09:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 AM ----------

Did you switch the beer for loctite again?

[Shadow]

Glad to hear it was something simple!

[turbovanman²]

JT text back if I had checked the flywheel bolts. Hmm.....no I haven't...... Grabbed a pry bar and wiggled the flywheel. DEFINITELY loose!!!!

Wooohooo.....hotdayum!

DOH!!!!! :banghead:

[8valves]

Correct, 1/8" aluminum plate across the T-state housing with 5/8" hole drilled in the middle. Runs so cool I could prob go down to 1/2" but have never bothered.

---------- Post added at 10:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 PM ----------



That may work on a drag only car, but it doesn't work well on the street, coolant needs more time in the rad to cool off before rentering the mtr. Otherwise it will continue to heat up untill it boils over or IF you have a good fan it will be on all the time.

Double pass radiator solves that. Car was street driven regularly. Actually just sold it to a fellow in Guam for the same purpose. :)

[lengel]

Are you running a stock flywheel? I know when I put my aftermarket flywheel in the car, I need to put a bigger edge break on the bolt holes because the inside radius on the bolt would hit the edge of the bolt hole and would not seat properly giving a flase torque. I used a countersink to break the edge. May be something to look at. Anyway glad to hear its nothing major, and nice runs on the new turbo!


Adam

[BadAssPerformance]

He's got a modded stocker, but good point on the clearance for the radius for aftermarket

[85glht]

I've heard loose pressure plate bolts sound like bottom end noise.


Grabbed a pry bar and wiggled the flywheel. DEFINITELY loose!!!!

Wooohooo.....hotdayum!


Had this same issue.... Are you running an aluminum flywheel?

[turbovanman²]

Had this same issue.... Are you running an aluminum flywheel?

See post 831 above you, :eyebrows:

[Shadow]

Double pass radiator solves that. Car was street driven regularly. Actually just sold it to a fellow in Guam for the same purpose. :)

Ya I actually take back what I said. Years ago a big V-8 was running real Hot in the middle of summer and some friends of mine took the T-state right out and they drove to Winnipeg. 2/3 the way there they over heated, said that it was nice and cool at first, then slowly warmed up, but it just kept going till they had to pull over. They assumed what I posted earlier.

I now have it on good advise from a friend that it's an old wives tale and that there must have been something else wrong with the car to overheat without the T-state.

So who knows, was second hand info anyways, so I shouyldn't be posting stuff I'm not Sure of...........

---------- Post added at 07:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ----------

Of course, everyone knows by now that the crank bolts can seep out oil and therefore need to be loc-tighted all the way around the bolt to seal the oil and also give a nice Tight loc.............Always used Red myself.

[contraption22]

In my experiencing, removing the thermostat always made things worse. Heat transfer takes time. You at least need some restriction in the cooling system, especially at high rpm.

[Shadow]

In my experiencing, removing the thermostat always made things worse. Heat transfer takes time. You at least need some restriction in the cooling system, especially at high rpm.

Aha! So maybe there was something to it..........

[Shadow]

39823

That almost looks like a BW to me. :)

[contraption22]

Thinking about it more, Reeves is making some serious power for the space allowed for a radiator. But he's only making that power at WOT. At part throttle cruise, what you still have is an 4 cylinder engine making well under 100hp to maintain speed. You don't need much cooling capacity at all for that.

At WOT, 30+psi of boost, you are theoretically making as much heat as a mild big-block, with a radiator capacity for a 4cyl. Add into it factors like a 3"+ thick intercooler in front of the rad, which is restricting airflow to the radiator, at the same time expelling a bunch of heat, and you have even more problems.

[Reeves]

Double pass radiator solves that. Car was street driven regularly. Actually just sold it to a fellow in Guam for the same purpose. :)

I have a double pass radiator.


Are you running a stock flywheel? I know when I put my aftermarket flywheel in the car, I need to put a bigger edge break on the bolt holes because the inside radius on the bolt would hit the edge of the bolt hole and would not seat properly giving a flase torque. I used a countersink to break the edge. May be something to look at. Anyway glad to hear its nothing major, and nice runs on the new turbo!


Adam

VERY good point. I will definitely check that. When I thinned the flywheel to fit the double disc clutch, I had to also counterbore the flywheel mounting holes to get the head of the bolt deeper so it wouldn't hit the 1st clutch disc. I bet it has little to no edge break. Thanks for pointing that out...I never noticed a taper on the mounting bolts. I'm using flex plate bolts as they are shorter and have a brand new set of Mopar bolts on the way, so I will definitely check them for this radiaus under the head and edge break my flywheel to clear it.



He's got a modded stocker, but good point on the clearance for the radius for aftermarket

And for modified stockers!


Had this same issue.... Are you running an aluminum flywheel?

No, stocker that is thinned .110"


Ya I actually take back what I said. Years ago a big V-8 was running real Hot in the middle of summer and some friends of mine took the T-state right out and they drove to Winnipeg. 2/3 the way there they over heated, said that it was nice and cool at first, then slowly warmed up, but it just kept going till they had to pull over. They assumed what I posted earlier.

I now have it on good advise from a friend that it's an old wives tale and that there must have been something else wrong with the car to overheat without the T-state.

So who knows, was second hand info anyways, so I shouyldn't be posting stuff I'm not Sure of...........

---------- Post added at 07:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ----------

Of course, everyone knows by now that the crank bolts can seep out oil and therefore need to be loc-tighted all the way around the bolt to seal the oil and also give a nice Tight loc.............Always used Red myself.

I actually always used anearobic.....I will use red this time....even though the new bolts will come with some factory stuff on them.


In my experiencing, removing the thermostat always made things worse. Heat transfer takes time. You at least need some restriction in the cooling system, especially at high rpm.

Was this experience on a 2.2/2.5 or a bigger engine? Just curious. What if I drill more vent holes or drill my current vent hole bigger?


That almost looks like a BW to me. :)

No no.


Thinking about it more, Reeves is making some serious power for the space allowed for a radiator. But he's only making that power at WOT. At part throttle cruise, what you still have is an 4 cylinder engine making well under 100hp to maintain speed. You don't need much cooling capacity at all for that.

At WOT, 30+psi of boost, you are theoretically making as much heat as a mild big-block, with a radiator capacity for a 4cyl. Add into it factors like a 3"+ thick intercooler in front of the rad, which is restricting airflow to the radiator, at the same time expelling a bunch of heat, and you have even more problems.



Right....that could be it.....but I'm also wondering if by the time the t-stat opens, it's too late....I'm almost done with the run. IT cools down VERY fast in the shutdown area.

[contraption22]

I have a double pass radiator.

Was this experience on a 2.2/2.5 or a bigger engine? Just curious. What if I drill more vent holes or drill my current vent hole bigger?


Right....that could be it.....but I'm also wondering if by the time the t-stat opens, it's too late....I'm almost done with the run. IT cools down VERY fast in the shutdown area.

The experieince was with my Horizon. I had overheating issues with it ~SDAC 13. I tried removing the tstat but it made things worse.

What temp stat are you using?

[Reeves]

The experieince was with my Horizon. I had overheating issues with it ~SDAC 13. I tried removing the tstat but it made things worse.

What temp stat are you using?

Pretty sure it's a 180.

[8valves]

Are you monitoring oil temp?

[Reeves]

Are you monitoring oil temp?

No sir.

[Warren Stramer]

.....but I'm also wondering if by the time the t-stat opens, it's too late....I'm almost done with the run. IT cools down VERY fast in the shutdown area.

James, With the elec. pump, TAKE OUT THE STINKING T STAT ALREADY! that is exactly whats happening! your problem will go away.:nod:

If you are running a factory belt driven pump you will benifit from a restrictor oriface in place of the thermostat.

[Reeves]

James, With the elec. pump, TAKE OUT THE STINKING T STAT ALREADY! that is exactly whats happening! your problem will go away.:nod:

If you are running a factory belt driven pump you will benifit from a restrictor oriface in place of the thermostat.

Warren,
Thanks for the info!
Why does the electric pump not need a restrictor?

[contraption22]

Warren,
Thanks for the info!
Why does the electric pump not need a restrictor?

I forgot you were an e-pump.
Because the electric pump runs at a consistant speed. It doesn't move the coolant too quikly at WOT. An engine-driven pump varies in flow with engine RPM.

[Reeves]

I forgot you were an e-pump.
Because the electric pump runs at a consistant speed. It doesn't move the coolant too quikly at WOT. An engine-driven pump varies in flow with engine RPM.

But how do we know that it doesn't flow the same as our engine driven pump at high RPM?
I'm guessing just remove it and be done with it. LOL

[black86glhs]

Back in the 60's the engines ran cooler and you could get away without the T-stat. Like mentioned, there needs to be some thing to help the coolant stay in the block to absorb the higher heat we make now. In your case Reeves, if the electric pump stays at a constant flow, it could act like a restrictor. In other words since the flow doesn't increase like a stock setup, the coolant will be in there a little longer and absorb more of the engine heat and stay in the radiator to cool longer too. That is how I see it.

If it still gets hot without the t-stat, go ahead and try the restrictor setup. Can't make it any worse than the t-stat situation. Can you get a 160 degree stat?

[Reeves]

Back in the 60's the engines ran cooler and you could get away without the T-stat. Like mentioned, there needs to be some thing to help the coolant stay in the block to absorb the higher heat we make now. In your case Reeves, if the electric pump stays at a constant flow, it could act like a restrictor. In other words since the flow doesn't increase like a stock setup, the coolant will be in there a little longer and absorb more of the engine heat and stay in the radiator to cool longer too. That is how I see it.

If it still gets hot without the t-stat, go ahead and try the restrictor setup. Can't make it any worse than the t-stat situation. Can you get a 160 degree stat?

Yeah, actually ordered a 160 tstat yesterday.

[Reeves]

Well......the flywheel bolts are still tight.....

4002040019

Makes me REALLY glad I have a scatter shield.....

[bakes]

Wow.....looks like it was ready to split into 3 . I have seen this with flex plates but never with a flywheel .
Almost worthy of the Simon's devastation Hall of Fame.

[BadAssPerformance]

Makes me REALLY glad I have a scatter shield.....

I thought the same thing when I saw the txt pic... good thing it didnt let go! I hope none of us has to "test" a scatter shield!

[shadow88]

Isn't there usually a thin steel shim usually in place, or is this a non oem flywheel?

[bakes]

Well......the flywheel bolts are still tight.....

4002040019

Makes me REALLY glad I have a scatter shield.....

you have a failure pic of the back side
also get some crack developer and spray the end of the the crank as a safety check

[black86glhs]

Isn't there usually a thin steel shim usually in place, or is this a non oem flywheel?I thought that was just flexplates that came with that.


you have a failure pic of the back side
also get some crack developer and spray the end of the the crank as a safety checkFor god sakes don't get that stuff on you. You will start resembling a plumber soon afterward!!!:(

[Turbo3Iroc]

:wow1:

Yeah caught that right in time to not have to test that scatter shield.

[Reeves]

More pics

[bakes]

Time for a billet flywheel i think you just surpassed the limits of cast!!

[BadAssPerformance]

Bakes hit the nail on the head... stock flywheels are cast. Most stock and aftermarket pressure plates are cast. The SFI req actually states the flywheel and plate need to be steel

[Directconnection]

Your nads are thanking you... for not making one more pass.

That is dangerously close to complete failure {ie: explosion}

You are running a dual disc setup, right? You're not making more power than you have been for the past couple of years, so the new clutch set-up might factor possibly into the failure equation?

[Reeves]

Your nads are thanking you... for not making one more pass.

That is dangerously close to complete failure {ie: explosion}

You are running a dual disc setup, right? You're not making more power than you have been for the past couple of years, so the new clutch set-up might factor possibly into the failure equation?

I actually did make another pass. Sort of. I red lit on a pro-tree BAD...rolled. No wonder!

I'm thinking like you think. No, haven't made much more power in the last few years.....same old stuff for the most part.

Remember, this flywheel has been thinned .110" and the mounting bolt holes have been counterbored .110".

I think the failure started at the .110" counterbored bolt holes, and moved from there.

Thinking maybe trying this clutch again, only this time with the surface thinned .110" and leave the bolt holes alone. Trying to find some thinner head flywheel bolts. Got some good leads so far.

Comments/Criticism is welcome as always.

Thanks

[85glht]

Wow! Thank God it didn't come apart! It would have been ugly.

I believe you are on right track with the thinning of flywheel as probable cause of failure. Just not enough material there to hold 500+ ft/lbs of torque.

[black86glhs]

That sh*t'll buff right out!!

[bakes]

That sh*t'll buff right out!!
ya your right a little Mothers and a Power Ball and look like new!!

[cordes]

How old is that flywheel? Perhaps one of the ME guys could comment on the potential for such failure in relation to time? Are you still spinning it to 7+K RPM? That's obviously a huge factor.

How far off of the flywheel face does the new clutch sit? If it's further than before could this amplify any balance issues in line with the crank on the back of the motor?

[Pat]

How far off of the flywheel face does the new clutch sit? If it's further than before could this amplify any balance issues in line with the crank on the back of the motor?

That is a very good point....

[Reaper1]

With the reduction in cross section, and the addition of stress risers (sharp edges on the counterbores) I think it was a combination of things that lead to the failure. I think thinning the whole face and not counterboring the holes would be a MUCH safer way to go. While it's not much, I also think that doubler plate might be worth installing to. It can spread out high stress points over a larger area if the flywheel does start flexing so as not to induce a crack due to overload.

[Turbo3Iroc]

What about shotpeening? Not on the contact surface of course but it works well in rotating jet engine parts. I don't know if it is effective on cast though.

[8valves]

Dude, after seeing the pics on here rather than my phone... my vote still stands. Just think about the pivot and where it's leveraging it's force against, and look at the only portion that was left unscathed.

[Reaper1]

Aaron, I just looked back a page, but did not find what your thinking was on this? I'm curious as to what you see?

I just looked at it again, and it really looks like it started flexing around the bolts. The corners of the bolts look like where the cracks started. I think it was simply too thin!

[turbovanman²]

I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy, :hail:

Wow is an understatement.

I wouldn't make it thinner at the mounting area. Can you get a steel one made?

As asked, how old is that flywheel?

[shadow88]

I thought that was just flexplates that came with that.

For god sakes don't get that stuff on you. You will start resembling a plumber soon afterward!!!:(

You're right on that one. I wonder if one would have helped?

[turboshad]

To me it looks like a cracked ring right at the OD of the bolt face. That tells me it wasn't a torque problem as this should be the lowest stress point when it comes to torque. I don't think it was a stress riser caused by the counter bore otherwise it would have started there. I think it came from an axial load and the only thing that causes an axial load is the release bearing/lever. That load and the thinner material is what did it in my mind. Now I would still be surprised if the spring pressure was enough to crack the plate. Is it possible that your cable travel is larger than the clutch spring travel? That would put the force of your leg times the leverage into the plate. Your leg obviously has much more mechanical advantage than the clutch springs so it could apply much more axial load. Just a thought.

[speedfreek500]

Wow i never seen a cast fw do that before,What about last week or so when the bolts came loose? in some of the pics you can see the holes are egg shaped and may have started to crack then.

Glad you found it before it went boom.

[black86glhs]

You're right on that one. I wonder if one would have helped?It might have prolonged the inevitable, but i think the the flexing from the pressure plate is what did it like DJ said.

[shackwrrr]

To me it looks like a cracked ring right at the OD of the bolt face. That tells me it wasn't a torque problem as this should be the lowest stress point when it comes to torque. I don't think it was a stress riser caused by the counter bore otherwise it would have started there. I think it came from an axial load and the only thing that causes an axial load is the release bearing/lever. That load and the thinner material is what did it in my mind. Now I would still be surprised if the spring pressure was enough to crack the plate. Is it possible that your cable travel is larger than the clutch spring travel? That would put the force of your leg times the leverage into the plate. Your leg obviously has much more mechanical advantage than the clutch springs so it could apply much more axial load. Just a thought.

Could also be the balance/centering of the pressure plate since it sits so far from the flywheel surface compared to the stock clutch.

[turboshad]

I can't see a tonne of side loading since the forks push pretty close to center on the release bearing which then presses on the clutch. Also the bending moment is proportional to the distance from the pivot in a perpendicular direction. If you place the circumstance on the X/Y plane and the height of the PP on the Z plane then only the distance off center that effects things is the X/Y when the force is from the release forks.

[8valves]

Aaron, I just looked back a page, but did not find what your thinking was on this? I'm curious as to what you see?

I just looked at it again, and it really looks like it started flexing around the bolts. The corners of the bolts look like where the cracks started. I think it was simply too thin!


To me it looks like a cracked ring right at the OD of the bolt face. That tells me it wasn't a torque problem as this should be the lowest stress point when it comes to torque. I don't think it was a stress riser caused by the counter bore otherwise it would have started there. I think it came from an axial load and the only thing that causes an axial load is the release bearing/lever. That load and the thinner material is what did it in my mind. Now I would still be surprised if the spring pressure was enough to crack the plate. Is it possible that your cable travel is larger than the clutch spring travel? That would put the force of your leg times the leverage into the plate. Your leg obviously has much more mechanical advantage than the clutch springs so it could apply much more axial load. Just a thought.

I think the thinner stock material can't handle the increased spring pressure and lever action. IE, I think the clutch was bending the flywheel instead of just depressing the spring, which is why it had a rolling issue too. As it weakened more it didn't use the thrust in the crank, it just mushroomed the edges of the flywheel till it pulled itself free.

[Reeves]

How old is that flywheel? Perhaps one of the ME guys could comment on the potential for such failure in relation to time? Are you still spinning it to 7+K RPM? That's obviously a huge factor.

How far off of the flywheel face does the new clutch sit? If it's further than before could this amplify any balance issues in line with the crank on the back of the motor?

Who knows how old the flywheel is. I have a stock pile of used stockers that I pick from.
The PP sits pretty far off the surface of the FW. That's why I had to thin the FW to get it all to fit in the bellhousing.



Dude, after seeing the pics on here rather than my phone... my vote still stands. Just think about the pivot and where it's leveraging it's force against, and look at the only portion that was left unscathed.

Right.


To me it looks like a cracked ring right at the OD of the bolt face. That tells me it wasn't a torque problem as this should be the lowest stress point when it comes to torque. I don't think it was a stress riser caused by the counter bore otherwise it would have started there. I think it came from an axial load and the only thing that causes an axial load is the release bearing/lever. That load and the thinner material is what did it in my mind. Now I would still be surprised if the spring pressure was enough to crack the plate. Is it possible that your cable travel is larger than the clutch spring travel? That would put the force of your leg times the leverage into the plate. Your leg obviously has much more mechanical advantage than the clutch springs so it could apply much more axial load. Just a thought.

I have the clutch arm made in such way that it bottoms out on the trans before it pushes the throwout bearing too far. That being said though, I made the throw about .050" more just a couple weeks ago to see if it would get rid of my rolling problem (on the 2 step). This was my first race with that modification.

I believe you and Aaron are on the same page as thinking.


Wow i never seen a cast fw do that before,What about last week or so when the bolts came loose? in some of the pics you can see the holes are egg shaped and may have started to crack then.

Glad you found it before it went boom.

Well, the flywheel bolts weren't actually loose at all. Before I removed the trans and clutch, I thougth the only problem was that the FW bolts came loose, as I could move the flywheel around A LOT.


I think the thinner stock material can't handle the increased spring pressure and lever action. IE, I think the clutch was bending the flywheel instead of just depressing the spring, which is why it had a rolling issue too. As it weakened more it didn't use the thrust in the crank, it just mushroomed the edges of the flywheel till it pulled itself free.

So, what's the concensus on just thinning the face of the FW .110" and leaving the bolt hole area alone? Think it'll do it again? I gave one to my machinist last night to surface .110" off the face and add the new bolt pattern for the PP. Then I gave him a set of bolts to take about .080" off the head of the bolt (they are about a .280" head stock).

Also thought about taking some off the floater flywheel. It's pretty thick, but I haven't measured it yet.

[Pat]

Couple of things I was thinking


- With a non thinned/counter sunk flywheel, you were able to run up to 3000lb pressure plates without having this issue. If your TOB arm is not binding up against the plate diaphram bottoming out, I'm having a hard time seeing how there is an increase in force to bend the pressure plate outward unless the countersinking/thinning played a signficant role.

- If you were having roll through/disengagement issues and you know that you were compeltely depressing the diaphram, it is likely that something was already a bit bent.

- You mentioned on the phone that with the clutch pedal released all the way, the TOB was riding all the way up at the base of the input shaft. Is it possible that the forks that push the TOB are pushing the TOB not squarely against the PP diaphram? If the forks are at an extreme angle, it's possible there could be some binding of the fork itself against the TOB instead of the "pad" of the fork, which then exerts uneven force of the TOB against the diaphram. If that were the case, it would likely damage the diaphram, make it hard to get complete disengagement (roll through) would could cause all sorts of uneven forces pulling on the already thinned flywheel.

Don't have a trans in front of me to look at to see if my thinking has any merit, but something to consider.

Pat

[BadFastGTC]

James,
Your most likely on the right track by eliminating the counter bored holes. The center was too thin and tried to twist the center section out. The thinner head on the bolts "should" be ok. You're very fortunate my friend!

[turbovanman²]

I agree with Pat, those DD old school pressure plates never had issues cracking flywheels, just taking out peoples legs and thrust bearings, :p

[8valves]

I agree with Pat, those DD old school pressure plates never had issues cracking flywheels, just taking out peoples legs and thrust bearings, :p

Right, because they weren't thinned almost an 1/8". An 1/8" reduction in thickness across the whole face of the flywheel is a lot.

When it's machined, now the plate can literally pull the edges of the flywheel away from the block.

I told James to check his thrust bearing... I bet it's hardly worn now compared to normal.

---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------


Couple of things I was thinking


- With a non thinned/counter sunk flywheel, you were able to run up to 3000lb pressure plates without having this issue. If your TOB arm is not binding up against the plate diaphram bottoming out, I'm having a hard time seeing how there is an increase in force to bend the pressure plate outward unless the countersinking/thinning played a signficant role.

- If you were having roll through/disengagement issues and you know that you were compeltely depressing the diaphram, it is likely that something was already a bit bent.

- You mentioned on the phone that with the clutch pedal released all the way, the TOB was riding all the way up at the base of the input shaft. Is it possible that the forks that push the TOB are pushing the TOB not squarely against the PP diaphram? If the forks are at an extreme angle, it's possible there could be some binding of the fork itself against the TOB instead of the "pad" of the fork, which then exerts uneven force of the TOB against the diaphram. If that were the case, it would likely damage the diaphram, make it hard to get complete disengagement (roll through) would could cause all sorts of uneven forces pulling on the already thinned flywheel.

Don't have a trans in front of me to look at to see if my thinking has any merit, but something to consider.

Pat

Pat,

Just to ensure we're on the same page here, I'm talking about the flywheel bending, not the PP. Are you thinking otherwise or just a typo?

This is a pretty in depth discussion so a little word change can mean a lot, haha!

[turbovanman²]

Right, because they weren't thinned almost an 1/8". An 1/8" reduction in thickness across the whole face of the flywheel is a lot.

When it's machined, now the plate can literally pull the edges of the flywheel away from the block.

I told James to check his thrust bearing... I bet it's hardly worn now compared to normal.

Agreed, that's what I was trying to say and I bet if the flywheel flange was stock, this wouldn't have happened.

[Pat]

Right, because they weren't thinned almost an 1/8". An 1/8" reduction in thickness across the whole face of the flywheel is a lot.

When it's machined, now the plate can literally pull the edges of the flywheel away from the block.

I told James to check his thrust bearing... I bet it's hardly worn now compared to normal.

---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------



Pat,

Just to ensure we're on the same page here, I'm talking about the flywheel bending, not the PP. Are you thinking otherwise or just a typo?

This is a pretty in depth discussion so a little word change can mean a lot, haha!

Yep! I apparently type faster than i think. :-)

[R/T]

Just put the automatic back in it...... :clap:

[Pat]

Looked at a trans last night...my TOB fork theory is not possible. The fork "pads" make contact with the TOB even with the TOB pushed all the way back.

[BadAssPerformance]

Just put the automatic back in it...... :clap:

:ban:

:lol:

[Ondonti]

Wondering if its a 4094 style turbo where the compressor wheel is a cut down version of a larger exducer wheel or possibly the opposite. Or larger frame turbine side then the compressor side. That or just a turbine side bias which is super popular in restricted inlet racing (along with cut down larger exducer wheels).

[8valves]

Wondering if its a 4094 style turbo where the compressor wheel is a cut down version of a larger exducer wheel or possibly the opposite. Or larger frame turbine side then the compressor side. That or just a turbine side bias which is super popular in restricted inlet racing (along with cut down larger exducer wheels).

Good thought, but it's actually much simpler than that. It's just a testbed thing right now, nothing really for anyone to get worked up over. I think ultimately it needs to get stepped up more, although from the logs it's a bad mofo street combo.

[shackwrrr]

Does that pressure plate have any centrifugal force weights? If it does then that would explain the rolling on the 2step and the cracking because of all the extra force at high rpm.

I would also have the assembly balanced, just have it chucked up on a crank balancer and see what it does.

[Reeves]

Thrust bearing is good. Removed and inspected.

[cordes]

Thrust bearing is good. Removed and inspected.

That's really good to hear.

[Shadow]

Yeah, actually ordered a 160 tstat yesterday.

So after all this your still going to run a T-stat? :confused2:

[Reeves]

So after all this your still going to run a T-stat? :confused2:

No, actually ordered it as a backup in case I can't get the car warmed up quick enough, or if I did happen to get the too much flow, not enough time to cool deal.

[black86glhs]

Seem to be getting it sorted out.:thumb:

[2.216VTurbo]

Ya know if you *had to* Jimmy, you could always get a steel flywheel made, Your family jewels are worth that much to you right?:D You could use the guys at Aasco that made the set up in my 690Ftlbs thread... If I had 3 more minutes I'd search and post linky but gotta go act like I'm working now:o

[Reeves]

No thermostat made no difference in heat on the big end of the track. If anything, it may have got hotter....I'll need to check the logs. Maybe try the 160 t-stat. Also gonna start logging pre-intercooler pressure on next runs, so if that is bad, then might be getting a different thickness intercooler so the radiator could get more air.

[Pat]

No thermostat made no difference in heat on the big end of the track. If anything, it may have got hotter....I'll need to check the logs. Maybe try the 160 t-stat. Also gonna start logging pre-intercooler pressure on next runs, so if that is bad, then might be getting a different thickness intercooler so the radiator could get more air.

Wow!!!

[turbovanman²]

So is that your new header?

What did you end up doing for the flywheel?

Have you gone faster than before?

What did you have for breakfast? :eyebrows:

[fishcleaner]

No thermostat made no difference in heat on the big end of the track. If anything, it may have got hotter....I'll need to check the logs. Maybe try the 160 t-stat. Also gonna start logging pre-intercooler pressure on next runs, so if that is bad, then might be getting a different thickness intercooler so the radiator could get more air.
Move the radiator to the spare tire well and vent it out between the tail lights. That's my next move, you can do it first so I can see how it works.

[shayne]

or air to water intercooler made to look like a stock omni bumper...
working on baja trucks for a bit before porter race cars shut down, i learned that putting a radiator in the rear of a vehicle is very problematic. and unless you can have it the highest point in the cooling system and have plenty of airflow across it you will certainly have cooling issues.

[Clay]

Get rid of the radiator all together. Fill the block with hard block, run alky. Done.

of course, this might not make it the most streetable thing in the world. ;)

[contraption22]

There was a guy, can't remember his name. Used to run a 11-sec nitrous-fed GLH back in the day. Said he ran so much nitrous that the coolant temp would be 10 or 20 degrees cooler at the end of the run compared to staging.

I forget who it was, but he was kind of a big deal.

[Clay]

:love:

[4 l-bodies]

There was a guy, can't remember his name. Used to run a 11-sec nitrous-fed GLH back in the day. Said he ran so much nitrous that the coolant temp would be 10 or 20 degrees cooler at the end of the run compared to staging.

I forget who it was, but he was kind of a big deal.
Probably Cliff Sebring your thinking of.

[contraption22]

Probably Cliff Sebring your thinking of.

Hmm... nope. Wasn't Cliff.

[csxtra]

Probably Cliff Sebring your thinking of.

Was it Ron Burgundy?

[Pat]

Was it Ron Burgundy?

Kaiser Soze?

[turbovanman²]

Kaiser Soze?

Great movie, :thumb:

[8valves]

Angelo Taylor's car?

And Reeves: B A D A S S ! I hope it works better than stock. :thumb:

[Rampage16V]

I think Dave rose had a glh in his shop that's a street glh had the rad mounted in the back

[Rampage16V]

Any pictures Dave?

[Shadow]

10.62 @ 132mph, crazy traction run, or did the car slow down on the high end? (is this your fastest No-NOS run?)

[turbovanman²]

Hello????????? Anyone home?

[8valves]

Yeah James- what's up?? ;)

[Reeves]

Sorry guys....been swamped with work. Sucks. Wish I was still at SDAC!

Fastest no NAWZ run that I remember was a 10.66 @ 136mph.

[Shadow]

Aha, so you was sprayin while'st a playin.....again! Your making me think that stuffs addictive.........

[Reeves]

Aha, so you was sprayin while'st a playin.....again! Your making me think that stuffs addictive.........

What? No...I ran no NOS at SDAC. I had it ready to go for the final round, but I blew an intercooler hose apart before I got to try it.

[Shadow]

10.62 @ 132mph, crazy traction run, or did the car slow down on the high end? (is this your fastest No-NOS run?)

So the 10.62 IS your fastest no-naws run!!!!!!!

[Reeves]

YEah I think so. 1.62 60ft.

[Shadow]

Nice, how you liking the new turbo? How much booost on that run?

[Reeves]

Nice, how you liking the new turbo? How much booost on that run?

New turbo is VERY streetable.....spools fast. Makes almost the same power as the 6262 but the MPH seems to suffer a tad. Recovers from my non flat shift rpm drops very fast and reliable. Easy to drive down the 1/4 as well as easy to get it on down the road. Still though, it may be for sale soon.

That was about 36psi boost.

[168glhs1986]

New turbo is VERY streetable.....spools fast. Makes almost the same power as the 6262 but the MPH seems to suffer a tad.

That was about 36psi boost.

That's good to know since mine will be installed soon.

[Shadow]

New turbo is VERY streetable.....spools fast. Makes almost the same power as the 6262 but the MPH seems to suffer a tad. Recovers from my non flat shift rpm drops very fast and reliable. Easy to drive down the 1/4 as well as easy to get it on down the road. Still though, it may be for sale soon.

That was about 36psi boost.

Not bad when you consider you were in the 40psi range with the 6262 + Nos. You must have had a PB 330' on that run to go 10.6 on only 132mph!

Is the (secret) turbo almost done @ 36psi, or does it have a little more still in it?

Pressure Tap? :)

[Reeves]

That's good to know since mine will be installed soon.

Thought you were getting a GT35R? No?


Not bad when you consider you were in the 40psi range with the 6262 + Nos. You must have had a PB 330' on that run to go 10.6 on only 132mph!

Is the (secret) turbo almost done @ 36psi, or does it have a little more still in it?

Pressure Tap? :)

6262 went 10.66 @ 136mph at 38psi and no NOS IIRC.

Turbo never was secret....I posted pics :lol: It's a GT3040R. .81housing.

Pressure tap yes.

[turbovanman²]

Turbo never was secret....I posted pics :lol: It's a GT3040R. .81housing.

Pressure tap yes.

So a GT35R is a 3582 so your 3040 is a lot smaller, smaller than a 6262 or am I out to lunch? :confused: :p

[GLHNSLHT2]

I searched back a couple pages and didn't see any pics.....

[Turbo3Iroc]

So a GT35R is a 3582 so your 3040 is a lot smaller, smaller than a 6262 or am I out to lunch? :confused: :p

Think of it as a hybrid. Big compressor on a smaller turbine. I don't think this combo was being sold when I bought my GT35 or I would have went for it over what I have.

[Reeves]

Think of it as a hybrid. Big compressor on a smaller turbine. I don't think this combo was being sold when I bought my GT35 or I would have went for it over what I have.

I don't believe Garrett makes one.....although it's all Garrett parts.
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-032&Category_Code=

[Turbo3Iroc]

I didn't know Garret didn't make those in house but I have known of the 3040R for quite some time. I bought 35R close to 5 years ago and did a lot of research. I wanted a 3076R but did not think it would get me in the 11's but no one had really pushed one as of that time. Now it is common for them to make 550+ whp.

[Shadow]

Haha! The ol' GT3040R, haven't heard that for what, 5 years? If memory serves, that was the turbo that the first 500WHP SRT-4 ran, heavily ported if I recall.

Simon, this is where turbo #'s can get confusing, Precision and most ppl today use inducer compressor in mm's and exducer turbine in mm's to express turbo size. ie. 6262.

In the case of the GT3582 Garrett is using frame size and turbine A/R.

In the case of the 3040R they are refering to the two different frame sizes mated together like a hybrid "30" frame size turbine/ "40" frame size (or series if you like) compressor. Kind of like a T3/T4 hybrid :)

So, any Tap readings on the 6262 before it bit the dust? Comparo to 3040R? (crosses fingers)

[turbovanman²]

Haha! The ol' GT3040R, haven't heard that for what, 5 years? If memory serves, that was the turbo that the first 500WHP SRT-4 ran, heavily ported if I recall.

Simon, this is where turbo #'s can get confusing, Precision and most ppl today use inducer compressor in mm's and exducer turbine in mm's to express turbo size. ie. 6262.

In the case of the GT3582 Garrett is using frame size and turbine A/R.

In the case of the 3040R they are refering to the two different frame sizes mated together like a hybrid "30" frame size turbine/ "40" frame size (or series if you like) compressor. Kind of like a T3/T4 hybrid :)

So, any Tap readings on the 6262 before it bit the dust? Comparo to 3040R? (crosses fingers)

Damn, lol. :banghead:

Nice info in that link, so a GT35R comp wheel and the GT30 turbine wheel. Interesting, :eyebrows:

[Turbo3Iroc]

It is actually a GT40 compressor wheel. A true GT35R will have a 76 mm wheel.

[168glhs1986]

Thought you were getting a GT35R? No?



6262 went 10.66 @ 136mph at 38psi and no NOS IIRC.

Turbo never was secret....I posted pics :lol: It's a GT3040R. .81housing.

Pressure tap yes.

GT3076R with Chrysler .63 housing. I remember what your were saying about installing the lines....on mine Chris already did that so the hard work is done :)

[turbovanman²]

It is actually a GT40 compressor wheel. A true GT35R will have a 76 mm wheel.

Ooops, reread it.

[8valves]

Haha! The ol' GT3040R, haven't heard that for what, 5 years? If memory serves, that was the turbo that the first 500WHP SRT-4 ran, heavily ported if I recall.

Simon, this is where turbo #'s can get confusing, Precision and most ppl today use inducer compressor in mm's and exducer turbine in mm's to express turbo size. ie. 6262.

In the case of the GT3582 Garrett is using frame size and turbine A/R.

In the case of the 3040R they are refering to the two different frame sizes mated together like a hybrid "30" frame size turbine/ "40" frame size (or series if you like) compressor. Kind of like a T3/T4 hybrid :)

So, any Tap readings on the 6262 before it bit the dust? Comparo to 3040R? (crosses fingers)

That's a good memory indeed, yes it was. It was an experiment that proved true, the car was making more power before but the delay of recovery from shifting was keeping it stuck where it was until it got a hail mary pass and everything worked just right.

Reeves has a tough combo to deal with because while it has displacement, no real RPM band leaves you with a short window to get a turbine wheel up to speed and not induce too high of BP. In this case the BP is borderline too much for a good street car setup. But I damn near guarantee there's no better suited combo for rediculously easy to drive/race configuration on James' car.

Even still, until this torque monster can be tamed in the early gears, it's going to be a hard case to get a lot quicker ET out of without BIG power gains.

Then again, the RPM range may be healthier with the right hot side on the engine ;)


Damn, lol. :banghead:

Nice info in that link, so a GT35R comp wheel and the GT30 turbine wheel. Interesting, :eyebrows:

Yup, it's a neat combo that works really well on the SRT4/2.2/2.5 platform engine: IE mini big-blocks. Following Garrett nomenclature it would be a GT3082R. HKS also made a similar turbo.


It is actually a GT40 compressor wheel. A true GT35R will have a 76 mm wheel.

Any of the three base variants of GT3582R's (and all inclusive PN's) have a 61.4mm inducer, 82mm exducer. A typical 40R comp is a 64.7mm inducer and 88mm exducer.

[Shadow]

What I find really interesting is how close that turbo is to my Holset. My HE351 is called a 6060 (60mm inducer comp. 60mm exducer turbine) but when I measured it, was actually more like 6059 (but close enough)

So the 3040r is just a hair larger and has a larger A/R turbine (.82 vs my .65 ) So no surprise to me that you find the 3040R responsive and fun to drive on the street, I've been trying to tell ppl that about the Holset for years! lol

[contraption22]

Am I correct in thinking there is no "GT40 compressor wheel".

From the reading I have done, the GTXX numbers refers to the turbine wheel. It does not refer to the compressor wheel or any housings at all.

So you could have a GT30 that's got a 71mm compressor wheel, or a 76mm compressor wheel. The specific designations would be GT3071 or GT3076 respectively.

So what compressor does this 30/40 Hybrid have?

[8valves]

What I find really interesting is how close that turbo is to my Holset. My HE351 is called a 6060 (60mm inducer comp. 60mm exducer turbine) but when I measured it, was actually more like 6059 (but close enough)

So the 3040r is just a hair larger and has a larger A/R turbine (.82 vs my .65 ) So no surprise to me that you find the 3040R responsive and fun to drive on the street, I've been trying to tell ppl that about the Holset for years! lol

The 30R turbine side itself is excellent, and very light. The issue this turbo runs into is a mistmatch of compressor wheel to exhaust wheel when at the upper limits of it's performance. IE: It's a badass combo until you run out of it, and then it tapers off quickly. So up to the low 500hp range it works extremely nicely on our oddball engine combo, but starts to have a sharp rise in backpressure beyond that.


Am I correct in thinking there is no "GT40 compressor wheel".

From the reading I have done, the GTXX numbers refers to the turbine wheel. It does not refer to the compressor wheel or any housings at all.

So you could have a GT30 that's got a 71mm compressor wheel, or a 76mm compressor wheel. The specific designations would be GT3071 or GT3076 respectively.

So what compressor does this 30/40 Hybrid have?

You are correct. This turbo has a standard "GT35R" compressor, 61mm inducer, 82mm exducer. It's much more correct to call it a GT3082 than a GT3040.

[Reeves]

I've been trying to tell ppl that about the Holset for years! lol

Dang naysayers!

[8valves]

Can we show some stuff off yet? Or at least update? :)

[cordes]

Update, update, update!

[turbovanman²]

Now?????

[csxtra]

Reeves has been busy racing the past 2 weekends...running consistent 10.4x times (except for a broken axle and a tire shake 11.0 this weekend).

I'm sure he'll chime in soon...unless he's clowning around.:D

[cordes]

Reeves has been busy racing the past 2 weekends...running consistent 10.4x times (except for a broken axle and a tire shake 11.0 this weekend).

I'm sure he'll chime in soon...unless he's clowning around.:D

Wow, 10.4s. That's a PR isn't it?

[speedfreek500]

Wow thats moving! Great job :thumb:

[8valves]

Wow, 10.4s. That's a PR isn't it?

It is with no nitrous. :) Damn that small turbo!

[turbovanman²]

Damn, :hail:

[contraption22]

Awesome!!!!!

[Reeves]

Racing, work, traveling, racing, etc...... Haven't been home much at all!

yes, MULTIPLE 10.47's and I think a 10.46 IIRC. No nawz. I actually went to turn on the nawz for the Ten-O shootout, but found it was empty. LOL, all leaked out at some point....haven't used it all year.

and pre intercooler boost is 5psi higher than post intercooler boost. Not too bad.....

Back to work :(

Can we show some stuff off yet? Or at least update? :)

Yes, feel free to show off some stuff :)

[omni_840]

Patiently waiting for some pics:nod:

Awesome on the 10.46!

[glhs0075]

Congratulations on the 10.46! Wow.
:clap:

[cordes]

Congrats Reeves. What's the MPH on those runs?

[Reeves]

135 to 136 range. Nice 60's.

[Shadow]

So your front suspension is starting to work for ya! Glad to hear it :)

[GLHNSLHT2]

Where are the pics??!?!?!?!?!

[omni_840]

^^yeah what he said:D

[cordes]

Where are the pics??!?!?!?!?!

+1 I would like a visual on this supposed wizardry.

[roachjuice]

10.4's. Geezus!!!

[fishcleaner]

Damn, thats fast, you will have to do some tweeking on my car.

[turbo2point2]

Awesome work James :nod:

[Reeves]

Pics of broken axle from Monster Mopar Weekend at Indy:

[turbovanman²]

Pic 8 looks like it was cracked for awhile. Nice carnage, :thumb:

[GLHNSLHT2]

we want pics of cool race parts please. :)

[Khajjathefang]

Hear hear!

[omni_840]

Yeah, ya parts tease:P

[supercrackerbox]

I believe Jeff Mass broke both axles in his Omni that weekend as well.

[8valves]

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/2012-07-12180508.jpg

[contraption22]

I saw Aarron's picture and I....

41682

[Khajjathefang]

Totally stealing that pic to send to my fabricator :D any more?

[Shadow]

WoW! Is that a Tial turbine housing?

[8valves]

Totally stealing that pic to send to my fabricator :D any more?

Not sure if it will help, but:

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/2012-07-01133720.jpg


WoW! Is that a Tial turbine housing?

The one and only!

[Khajjathefang]

Dude you rock, and everything helps.

[turbovanman²]

F*ckin hell, :faint:

So honestly, what did you notice after you put that on? besides drooling for a few months?

[8valves]

F*ckin hell, :faint:

So honestly, what did you notice after you put that on? besides drooling for a few months?

I will say with 100% honesty that the car has had ZERO gain from this combination.

[csxtra]

I will say with 100% honesty that the car has had ZERO gain from this combination.

:lol::lol::lol:

But actually very true at this point...maybe he should get a ported stock manifold instead? :bolt:

[Shadow]

1. Did Reeves run that turbo before the header went on, or only in combo with the header?

2. Any pr tap (drive pressure) readings before and after header?

---------- Post added at 01:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ----------


:lol::lol::lol:

But actually very true at this point...maybe he should get a ported stock manifold instead? :bolt:

Funny as it sounds, this Could be a good opportunity to see some differences between 2.5/2.2 and Header vs Cast mani. Reeves turbo is very close in size to my HE351 now (I believe his turbo is still slightly larger) Drive pressure comparo could tell some things.........:)

[turbovanman²]

I will say with 100% honesty that the car has had ZERO gain from this combination.

Ok, so then why go to all the hassle then?

[turbo2point2]

No hassle at all if it isnt on the car right? ;)

[8valves]

You're too smart sometimes Brian!

;)

[turbovanman²]

No hassle at all if it isnt on the car right? ;)

LOL, that would make more sense why it had 0 results. Should have known, :(

[csxtra]

I will say with 100% honesty that the car has had ZERO gain from this combination.


Ok, so then why go to all the hassle then?

Hook, Line and Sinker...:D

41685


No hassle at all if it isnt on the car right? ;)

[turbovanman²]

BAH!!!!! :mecry:

[black86glhs]

No hassle at all if it isnt on the car right? ;)Ba-zing!

[Reeves]

No hassle at all if it isnt on the car right? ;)

GREAT call Brian!


Hook, Line and Sinker...:D

41685

What does the attached pic mean or what is it from? I've seen it on here a lot, and also I saw a bunch of T-Shirts with it on there.

Also, I have plenty of header pressure readings as well as pre-intercooler reading BEFORE this combo goes on :) There may be more..... Stay tuned.....


And before you think I'm keeping stuff to myself....I honestly don't have time to get in to details or I would......

Or would I????

:)

[csxtra]

What does the attached pic mean or what is it from? I've seen it on here a lot, and also I saw a bunch of T-Shirts with it on there.

It's Trollface:

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/trollface-coolface-problem

[turbovanman²]

It's Trollface:

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/trollface-coolface-problem

That should be from the movie "Mask" with Jim Carrey.

[cordes]

Mildly impressive. :eyebrows:

[Ubmbass]

What the hell is with all the secrecy about this car and it's turbo/header/intercooler setup anyway? I mean, the car is impressive absolutely, but why keep secrets? Wouldn't the information be beneficial to the community?

[8valves]

I think it's because Reeves doesn't want people to know that he really has an SBC 355 in the hatch.

[contraption22]

i think it's because reeves doesn't want people to know that he really has an sbc 355 in the hatch.


haha!

[omni_840]

Nice! Thanks for posting some pics looking forward to some more pics:)

[Khajjathefang]

Im looking forward to the official end of the ported stocker myth :P

[contraption22]

Im looking forward to the official end of the ported stocker myth :P

Myth? Ha. All you tube header fanboys.

[Directconnection]

What the hell is with all the secrecy about this car and it's turbo/header/intercooler setup anyway? I mean, the car is impressive absolutely, but why keep secrets? Wouldn't the information be beneficial to the community?

Because the car actually runs 12.8's off the bottle and 10-4's good buddy on a 200 shot of nawz. He ain't the Nawz-Nazi for nuttin' bro!

[Khajjathefang]

Myth? Ha. All you tube header fanboys.

If it was good enough for IMSA... ;)

[Turbo3Iroc]

Are you staying with the same turbo when that goes on?

[bakes]

Of cousre it going to run the same turbo just going to use a HMIC feeding into a Paxton suppercharger looping back into the FMIC then being hit but a 4 stage Nos (30hp each stage ) one stage added for every gear with meth being injected with the NOs going through a 88mm TB

[Shadow]

Also, I have plenty of header pressure readings as well as pre-intercooler reading BEFORE this combo goes on :) There may be more..... Stay tuned.....


And before you think I'm keeping stuff to myself....I honestly don't have time to get in to details or I would......

Or would I????

:)

Nice! Glad your getting some good before data. I know when I put a header on the Charger it will be the Only change I make and will see Clearly what has changed. Interestingly enough, I always thought it would lower your drive pressure by moving through the turbine more efficiently. I now understand that it should actually Increase your drive pressure because what it's really doing is letting the mtr breath better.

So, a change like this can tell you a $hit load!