Reeves' OMNI GLH-R Update!

[turboshad]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107

Here's a thread on DSMtuners with some varying reviews, though it looks like most of the "bad" reviews are people that have never tried it. Typical. Post 22 is interesting and talks about doubling up the springs that push on the keys instead.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drivetrain-tech/248921-grinding-ever-other-tooth-off-synchro.html

[cordes]

No joke? :confused2:







Yes, no joke. I'm pretty sure it was one of the Ramsdells who posted that some time ago.

[DodgeZ]

Hang with me here, as these pics are horrible. Some of them you can see what I'm talking about.

In the strainer you can see the plastic slivers. These are from the shift fork plastic pads that were just installed a little over a year ago.

The other pictures in this post are of the 1st/2nd shift fork. I'm pointing with a screw driver where the fork hits the case when in 2nd gear. This is where I'm thinking of removing some material from the fork so it will go in farther.

where did you get this idea from?

[Reeves]

where did you get this idea from?

Beer?


I was trying to constantly adjust the shifter last year to throw it in 2nd a little farther. I didn't know there was a stop built in the trans. So I thought it might help to grind a little.

[DodgeZ]

Beer?


I was trying to constantly adjust the shifter last year to throw it in 2nd a little farther. I didn't know there was a stop built in the trans. So I thought it might help to grind a little.

Ah, I figured it was from the SRT4 shift extender mod.

[Reeves]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107

Here's a thread on DSMtuners with some varying reviews, though it looks like most of the "bad" reviews are people that have never tried it. Typical. Post 22 is interesting and talks about doubling up the springs that push on the keys instead.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drivetrain-tech/248921-grinding-ever-other-tooth-off-synchro.html

Interesting read. Has me confused one which to do, or do nothing besides replace the synchros, shift fork pads, and 2nd gear.

[cordes]

We could easily double up the springs on each side of the synchros in our transmissions. May be worth a shot?

[Reeves]

We could easily double up the springs on each side of the synchros in our transmissions. May be worth a shot?

Right.

And I thought it would be way easier to remove every other dog off the available synchros and not the rare gears, but not sure if that would help?

[turboshad]

Right.

... and not the rare gears, ....

This is my only concern if it doesn't work

[Reeves]

I'm gonna call these guys.

http://www.passonperformance.com/

[Reeves]

I'm gonna call these guys.

http://www.passonperformance.com/

Wow...this guy is kind of a dick....but very informative!

He said that cutting every other dog off the gear, and every other groove out of the slider may help, but just doing the gear wouldn't do anything, and doing the brass was total non-sense. He said if you only did the slider, it would be more benefit than doing anything else. Hmmm.....

After explaining as much as I could over the phone with him, he suggested that it is a pressure plate issue that was causing my missed 2nd shift and that caused my dogs on 2nd gear to round off. Asked me if I had centrifugal rollers on my pressure plate. Then said I need them?

He gave me some other people to call and talk to.

Hmmm......this is getting deep.

[cordes]

This is getting pretty deep. Centrifugal rollers on the PP? Interesting.

[Pat]

We could easily double up the springs on each side of the synchros in our transmissions. May be worth a shot?

I'm not sure I see how this would work in getting a more positive engagement. Even with extra spring, you still have to engage the dogs to engage the gear.

Working off of memory here, so I could be missing something....

[cordes]

I'm not sure I see how this would work in getting a more positive engagement. Even with extra spring, you still have to engage the dogs to engage the gear.

Working off of memory here, so I could be missing something....

Here is the logic behind it from the DSM thread.


The springs in the hub push the keys outward against the slider. The keys rest on the slider and move with the slider as you shift gears. When you shift gears the keys mate with the synchro ring and push the synchro ring onto the cone of the gear as you shift toward that gear, this is what matches the gear speed to the slider speed and prevents that gear grinding noise you may hwear with worn synchros. The keys are free to move up and down on the slider but the pressure exerted by the springs keeps the key movement some what in line with the slider movement. The stronger the force exerted on the keys outward toward the slider the more the keys will move with the slider and press against the synchro which mates with the cone on the gear. If you run two springs on each side of the hub instead of one it can help high RPM shifting, the only downside is that shifting 1 and 2 may be a bit more notchy, but not much at all, it was hardly an issue for me.

[R/T]

Look, just put the automatic back in it and get over this 5 speed crap..... :p

JFWY!!! :lol:

AND: Remember the shifter cable bushings needed some help too.... ;)

[turbovanman²]

Why do you have oil in your throttle body?
.

Too much blowby, oil was getting into the intake system so with boost, it would push it out the TPS, :(


Ouch. Good Luck on the good gearset... hard to find. I have seen "freshly rebuilt" transaxles with fresh brass rings and worn dogs on the gears, this seems to be common practice?

Because unless you have a stash of good gears, your SOL.


I seem to recall it being posted that the service limit for the gears is more than half the dogs worn off. It they've been rounded half way they are technically still good go go.

I was taught that when the point is gone, they are junk as it won't catch the synchro properly. Maybe that's changed? I do know my friends IROC had rounded off teeth and would grind, replaced it and fixed.


Look, just put the automatic back in it and get over this 5 speed crap..... :p



:amen: :lol:

[Rampage16V]

What's the disadvantage to going the "crash box" route? Any?


JUst do second and third others not really necessary. Only disadvantage I've seen is going on and off the gas while in gear little sloppy.
do it! you'll like it.

[Rampage16V]

James if you have a part number I have a couple new gears here but not sure what trans they are for. And jt I have a basket full of 568 parts

[BadAssPerformance]

And jt I have a basket full of 568 parts

PM me How much?... :nod:

[Reeves]

JUst do second and third others not really necessary. Only disadvantage I've seen is going on and off the gas while in gear little sloppy.
do it! you'll like it.

I'm still confused on this theory. You are ONLY cutting every other dog off the brass synchro stop ring, and the synchro teeth on the gear itself....correct? NOT doing anything to the slider? I don't see how it would be anymore sloppy this way? Maybe I'm just not getting it yet.

Here's something interesting I found out last night. The trans I'm currently running has 1 synchro tooth missing in 3 different spots on 2nd gear. Not broke off or warrened off, they weren't there to begin with. The trans I broke a while back, has ALL the synchro teeth on 2nd gear. Andy's 555 which I just tore apart last night has 1 synchro tooth missing in 3 different spots, just like my current trans. Anyone noticed that before?


James if you have a part number I have a couple new gears here but not sure what trans they are for. And jt I have a basket full of 568 parts

Hmmm.....I don't remember there being any part numbers on it...but I do remember some markings. Got any pics of what you got? Definiately interested!!!

Pics coming soon.

[Reeves]

My thinking is the heavy disc is acting like a flywheel and not slowing down soon enough.


And my thought on the springs is that they are causing chatter with super grippy friction material.


Pics of Andy's main shaft with little wear on the synchro teeth. I'm going to have to get my better camera for pics like this. I have a garage camera that isn't so good:

[cordes]

I'm still confused on this theory. You are ONLY cutting every other dog off the brass synchro stop ring, and the synchro teeth on the gear itself....correct? NOT doing anything to the slider? I don't see how it would be anymore sloppy this way? Maybe I'm just not getting it yet.

Here's something interesting I found out last night. The trans I'm currently running has 1 synchro tooth missing in 3 different spots on 2nd gear. Not broke off or warrened off, they weren't there to begin with. The trans I broke a while back, has ALL the synchro teeth on 2nd gear. Andy's 555 which I just tore apart last night has 1 synchro tooth missing in 3 different spots, just like my current trans. Anyone noticed that before?



Hmmm.....I don't remember there being any part numbers on it...but I do remember some markings. Got any pics of what you got? Definiately interested!!!

Pics coming soon.

I've seen sliders like that before. I've actually seen both types. If I have both out of transmissions right now I will try to take some good pics and post them up. ;)

[BadAssPerformance]

Clutch posts moved to the clutch weight thread :thumb:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50085

[glhs0426]

I think your idea about grinding a little off the stop for second gear will work well.

Mr. Passon offered a service to weld and remachine the dogs for the 833 four speed. I don't know the cost or if he could do the same for your 555 gears. It might be worth another call.

[Reeves]

I think your idea about grinding a little off the stop for second gear will work well.

Mr. Passon offered a service to weld and remachine the dogs for the 833 four speed. I don't know the cost or if he could do the same for your 555 gears. It might be worth another call.

He didn't seem to interested without big $$$ for tooling.

[glhs0426]

He didn't seem to interested without big $$$ for tooling.

Figured.

[Reeves]

Trans back in. Pics later.

[Reeves]

Cheap Harbor Frieght bearing separator kit. I got tired of borrowing my buddies separator all the time. Like DJ had mentioned, a 3" separator doesn't come with long enough bolts. I had some all thread laying around.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24520&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24520') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24518&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24518')

Andy's 555 that was in my building that I was supposed to be rebuilding.....instead of stealing parts from it :evil: His dogs on 2nd are worn, but not worn out like mine.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24519&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24519')


Don't buy cheap tools.... :mad:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24522&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24522')

Go borrow your buddies Snap-On (again and again):
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24523&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24523')

Andy's 2nd gear.....definitely worn, but not NEAR as bad as mine.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24575&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24575') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24576&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24576')

Random pics of both mine and Andy's main shafts dissassembled:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24582&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24582') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24581&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24581') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24580&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24580') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24579&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24579') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24577&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24577') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24578&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24578')

[BadAssPerformance]

Do you wear your SDAC badges? I seem to forget where I lose them the first or second night partying :o

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24520&d=1281273629

[cordes]

Reeves, did the bolts just bend, or did the tool actually break? I was able to barely use the bolts which came in the kit I purchase from HF.

[Reeves]

Added pics and descriptions above as well as this post.

My 1st/2nd selector (pic is taken on the 2nd gear side) and Andy's 1st/2nd selector ring. Mine is the one that has the nasty wear, and the blue looking oil.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24584&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24584') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24583&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24583') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24586&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24586') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24585&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24585')

Mine put back together with Andy's 2nd gear and 1st/2nd selector and 3rd/4th selector. Also new brass on 2nd gear.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24587&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24587') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24589&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24589') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24588&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24588') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24590&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24590')

I ground about an 3/16" or so off 2nd gear fork stop. Should have only ground about an 1/8" as it barely kisses the stop when the selector bottoms against 2nd gear.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24591&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24591') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24592&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24592') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24593&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24593')

My drunk buddy grabbed the camera. Gluing back together. Decided to use anerobic sealer to see how it worked. It's generally easier to clean on the next dissassembly:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24594&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24594')

Top view re-assembled:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24595&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24595')

Going back in.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24596&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24596') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24597&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24597')

Finished it up yesterday morning and went on a test cruise. First 1st to 2nd bang shift I felt a little grinding. The second and third time I banged 2nd, it felt great. Why does the other side of the road always seem so narrow? :thumb:

[Rampage16V]

syncro sliders ground dog tooth off of too. not brass rings. I'll take some pics tonight.

[Reeves]

syncro sliders ground dog tooth off of too. not brass rings. I'll take some pics tonight.

Off the slider? That would make more sense to me.
Anxiously awaiting pics!

[Rampage16V]

Off the slider? That would make more sense to me.
Anxiously awaiting pics!

Don't have any pics of ground gears was just going to take some pics of the parts i have

[Reaper1]

I can't wait! I'm thinking of this mod as well because 1/2 shift sometimes doesn't go as smoothly as I'd like it to.

[Rampage16V]

It works great and you don't have to remove the brass rings so it stays relatively streetable





First 2 pics are new gears I have I think they are 520 but the syncro is 520 or 555 1-2. 87-88. The nest a pic of a couple turbos, the next is a box of 568 parts I held up 2nd gear for a close up on the dog teeth. I could bring these to pinks JT

[Reeves]

Don't have any pics of ground gears was just going to take some pics of the parts i have


It works great and you don't have to remove the brass rings so it stays relatively streetable





First 2 pics are new gears I have I think they are 520 but the syncro is 520 or 555 1-2. 87-88. The nest a pic of a couple turbos, the next is a box of 568 parts I held up 2nd gear for a close up on the dog teeth. I could bring these to pinks JT

I'll take the 520/555 stuff.

Thanks for the pics.

[2.216VTurbo]

What does the second gear fork stop mod do Jimmy? Allow the shift selector to seat 2nd more firmly? Great teardown pics, what color was that oil when it went it the case:confused:?

[Reeves]

The mod will hopefully let it fully engage 2nd all the time. Not sure if it'll work, but so far, so good.

I have another idea where you could make your shift stops for 2nd and 4th adjustable. Not sure if it would really matter though.

It was blue going in. It's the Redline Lightweight Shockproof Oil that is blue.

[Rampage16V]

I'll take the 520/555 stuff.

Thanks for the pics.

K I will bring it to pinks/norwalk jt you want me to bring the box of 568 parts?

[BadAssPerformance]

K I will bring it to pinks/norwalk jt you want me to bring the box of 568 parts?

Yes Please :thumb:

[Aries_Turbo]

James, did you try the double synchronizer springs?

brian

[Reeves]

James, did you try the double synchronizer springs?

brian

*almost*
But no, I didn't. I seriously considered it if that counts for anything.

[Juggy]

Yes Please :thumb:

focker!!!!!! :lol:
if i knew dean had this crap it woulda been long gone :p
at least i know who to get spare parts from now.....

[Aries_Turbo]

*almost*
But no, I didn't. I seriously considered it if that counts for anything.

lol. im going to at least mock it up and see if it all fits in there. what is the theory behind it?

Brian

[Reeves]

lol. im going to at least mock it up and see if it all fits in there. what is the theory behind it?

Brian

The extra spring pressure exerted on the sliders is supposed to make them grip more to the selector ring, which would mean the sliders would push more on the brass, helping to slow down the gear quicker. At least that's the way I think it's supposed to work.

I kind of wish I would have tried it, but I wanted to get this back together and get it on the road so I could move onto other things I need to fix.

[86Shelby]

The extra spring pressure pushes the 3 synchro..(I can't think of thier name) out against the slider with more pressure. When the slider is moved to engage a gear the spring pressure resists the 3 peices moving towards the center of the synchro assembly. This causes those 3 peices to extert more pressure on the blocker ring in the hopes that it slows down the speed gear and input shaft before giving up and allowing the slider to move onto the dogs. At least that's my understanding, horrid nomeclature and all. :)

edit: And Reeves with the ninja post. haha

[Ondonti]

I have noticed on all my 523 style transmissions that 2nd gear never seems to go in "all the way"
Never a grinding issue, just goes in funny (like halfway then stops) when driving hard sometimes and likes to pop out of gear. Never grinds.

I stick with light clutches to help with shifting and have never had a problem WOT shifting without fancy electronic flat shift stuff that I have now.

[ShadowBrad]

I have noticed on all my 523 style transmissions that 2nd gear never seems to go in "all the way"
Never a grinding issue, just goes in funny (like halfway then stops) when driving hard sometimes and likes to pop out of gear. Never grinds.


Speaking of this issue. When I first got my Shadow running, I had this same issue. I thought that my shifter cables were out of adjustment, but after checking, rechecking, checking again, and even replacing the cables, the problem was still there. Also, 4th engaged properly, making me think something other than the cables.

It would only pop out of 2nd if I was shifting hard/fast. If I changed gears easily, 2nd would engage the first time every time. Unlike your transmission, mine would grind when it popped out, as though it wasn't in far enough to be engaged, but not out far enough to be in neutral. I was running a FWDP DDPP, but my clutch disk felt rather light(I never weighed it). It was a 4-puck ceramic with a solid(un-sprung) hub from ClutchNet. I never did find out what the problem was, but after a month or two of repeatedly slamming it into 2nd gear the problem vanished before I had the chance to dig into the transmission and inspect things. I'll soon be going RWD, so when I'm tearing things down I'll open up the tranny and see if I can't find anything abnormal that could have been causing it.

-brad

[Reeves]

Went with solid lifters as my hydraulics were claking at the end of the track. Took 2 full evenings to get set to the right lash. Man, that sucked! And after the 4th attempt at a pass, I end up with these:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25139&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25139') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25140&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25140') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25141&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25141') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25136&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25136') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25135&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25135') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25137&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25137') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25138&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25138')

So then I decided to try Andy's PT Cruiser lifters he had sitting in my shop (sorry Andy) and dropped a dag gone washer....heard it go ding, ding, ding, thunk....right in the oil pan. Needless to say, I had to pull the pan. So took a peak around while in there.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25142&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25142') http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25143&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25143')

[contraption22]

What's the brown stuff in your pan? Is that coolant?

[Reeves]

What's the brown stuff in your pan? Is that coolant?

Lubricant. A.K.A. Oil

[turbovanman²]

Damn, that sucks. How high are you revving it?

Stock oil pump? :eyebrows:

[Shadow]

So what thinkest you, lash to tight? Surprized to see those adj's are hollow! :confused:

[Reeves]

Damn, that sucks. How high are you revving it?

Stock oil pump? :eyebrows:

I was shifting at 6500 to 6700 and rev-limit was at 7200.

I am now going to try going back to my roots of shifting at closer to 6000 and rev-limit at 6500. This is not because of the lifters, but because I still can't get this damnn trans to shift!

Yeah stocker oil pump FTW!


So what thinkest you, lash to tight? Surprized to see those adj's are hollow! :confused:

I think too weak with the 5/16" diameter and hollow bore. Talked to Warren Stramer and his are 3/8" diameter but still hollow bore.

[Rampage16V]

When I had the alumnium rods my oil was always muddy looking too

[Reeves]

When I had the alumnium rods my oil was always muddy looking too

Really? How come?

I thought maybe Mike was refering to the water droplets in the oil. That is from where I washed the car right before I dropped washer down oil pan and pulled off oil pan.

[turbovanman²]

I was shifting at 6500 to 6700 and rev-limit was at 7200.

I am now going to try going back to my roots of shifting at closer to 6000 and rev-limit at 6500. This is not because of the lifters, but because I still can't get this damnn trans to shift!

Yeah stocker oil pump FTW!



Nice, :amen:

Stock FTW, :lol:

[Rampage16V]

I was shifting at 6500 to 6700 and rev-limit was at 7200.

I am now going to try going back to my roots of shifting at closer to 6000 and rev-limit at 6500. This is not because of the lifters, but because I still can't get this damnn trans to shift!



I think if you were to grind the sliders and gears it would go in at higher rpm everytime!

[Reeves]

I was shifting at 6500 to 6700 and rev-limit was at 7200.

I am now going to try going back to my roots of shifting at closer to 6000 and rev-limit at 6500. This is not because of the lifters, but because I still can't get this damnn trans to shift!



I think if you were to grind the sliders and gears it would go in at higher rpm everytime!

The only thing that worries me about that is that I would only have half the teeth taking the load.

[Directconnection]

The only thing that worries me about that is that I would only have half the teeth taking the load.

You southerners and yer relationship woes...

[Rampage16V]

NP then remove every third tooth

[contraption22]

You southerners and yer relationship woes...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:thumb::hail:

[BadAssPerformance]

The only thing that worries me about that is that I would only have half the teeth taking the load.

Correct. I dont think all of them like it much right now and to have less soldiers to fight the war? Hmmm.. OK Reeves we gonna do "rock, scissor, paper" to see who tries this first?


You southerners and yer relationship woes...

ROFLMAO

[Aries_Turbo]

looks like the lifter adjustment piece stuck up a little too high to take the load as well.

Brian

[Reeves]

NP then remove every third tooth

Not a bad idea. Are you saying like this? ^^.^^.^^.^^.^^ ?? Would that help in shifting? I thought the idea of cutting off every other one was to give twice the amount of room for the engagement process. But I have seen rings like this ^^^^^^............^^^^^^.............^^^^^^


Correct. I dont think all of them like it much right now and to have less soldiers to fight the war? Hmmm.. OK Reeves we gonna do "rock, scissor, paper" to see who tries this first?

Mine is back together for now and in the car. You go first! (<that's what she said!)


looks like the lifter adjustment piece stuck up a little too high to take the load as well.

Brian

Yup. Gonna try to call Glenn Smith today to see what's up. $260 for 3 runs = not a good wear to $$$ ratio.

[Shadow]

Is there a reason you would mess with the blocker ring (synchro)? Wouldn't you just remove what you want of the gear side?

[Reeves]

Is there a reason you would mess with the blocker ring (synchro)? Wouldn't you just remove what you want of the gear side?

Gear side is what I meant to say. I don't think you would want to mess with the brass at all.

[BadAssPerformance]

Not a bad idea. Are you saying like this? ^^.^^.^^.^^.^^ ?? Would that help in shifting? I thought the idea of cutting off every other one was to give twice the amount of room for the engagement process. But I have seen rings like this ^^^^^^............^^^^^^.............^^^^^^

Mine is back together for now and in the car. You go first! (<that's what she said!)

I was thinking every other one ^_^_^_^_^_^_^ is the only way that will make sense because in effect at higher RPM this increases the "window" at which it will engage...

Hmmm... concerned about 1/2 the teeth taking the same torque :eek:

[Reeves]

I was thinking every other one ^_^_^_^_^_^_^ is the only way that will make sense because in effect at higher RPM this increases the "window" at which it will engage...

Hmmm... concerned about 1/2 the teeth taking the same torque :eek:


Right....

But I could see this working as well, and I've seen some this way before. Even stock ones.


^^^^^^______^^^^^^______^^^^^^

It still leaves extra room for engagement.

[contraption22]

Jeez, the crazy stuff you MTX guys do.

[92spiritrt]

i haven't said anything during this whole conversation since i really don't have a lot of transmission knowledge, but i've learned alot from reading this thread during the past two weeks. it's great when you have a meeting of the minds like this and just a educational conversation results with no bs. thanks guys.

[glhs0426]

The every third tooth idea does not make any sense in my head. There would still be the same amount of space between the teeth as stock with the exception of every third tooth missing. The idea of every other tooth removed gives twice the amount of space to let a gear change take place at high RPM.

The every other tooth idea works. I would post pictures, but the HEMI crash box I had is long gone.

[Reeves]

i haven't said anything during this whole conversation since i really don't have a lot of transmission knowledge, but i've learned alot from reading this thread during the past two weeks. it's great when you have a meeting of the minds like this and just a educational conversation results with no bs. thanks guys.

We are all still learning! Thanks for the comment!


The every other tooth idea works. I would post pictures, but the HEMI crash box I had is long gone.

Yeah, we ain't saying it doesn't work......we are curious as to if we cut off half the little tiny teeth in our transmission, if they will still be able to handle the power and abuse?

Hemi gears are WAY bigger/beefier.

[ShadowBrad]

Have an idea about your lifter breakage. Is there room to shim them up with a washer like the PT lifters get done? And still have the oiling lined up properly? That way they wouldn't have to be unscrewed as far and the lifter body could offer up more support. Now I've never seen a solid lifter setup on an 8 valve in person, so I really don't know if this is possible, but just throwing it out there.

-brad

[Aerosmith145]

Also included are pics of my buddies SCCA FE car.

Your car's looking great! I'm using the same ATP gate.

And the rollhoop on that SCCA car, I'm currently building 5 more of them at work! Small world huh? ;)

[Warren Stramer]

Yeah, we ain't saying it doesn't work......we are curious as to if we cut off half the little tiny teeth in our transmission, if they will still be able to handle the power and abuse?

Hemi gears are WAY bigger/beefier.

Sometimes you just have to try some things to make progress.Is there any part of your trans that is irreplaceable if it shears the teeth off?
I think it will hold up just fine........easy for me to say, I'm not the one that will have to pick up the pieces.hehe

by the way, I was always going to tell you- that is THE best Omni picture ever, looks GREAT! I love the flames.

[Reeves]

Your car's looking great! I'm using the same ATP gate.

I used that gate this entire season. Can’t say I noticed any difference going to a better gate, better down pipe, and then dumping into the 4” aluminum exhaust. Makes me think this is not the bottle neck. But, it makes me feel much better about it all being on there, as it shouldn’t be the bottle neck for a long time. Plus it sounds pretty badass.

Also the catch can I added at the same time is working like a charm….and I really needed it.



And the rollhoop on that SCCA car, I'm currently building 5 more of them at work! Small world huh? ;)

You build SCCA parts? That’s cool! Need pics!



Sometimes you just have to try some things to make progress.Is there any part of your trans that is irreplaceable if it shears the teeth off?
I think it will hold up just fine........easy for me to say, I'm not the one that will have to pick up the pieces.hehe

I’d love to try it. But, I’m working on a dual disc 8” clutch set up right now, and I’m hoping that it may save enough weight/inertia that it may fix my high rpm shifting problems. If not, then I’ll def be cutting teeth next season.

These gears are made of un-obtanium. The drive teeth on the gears seem to hold up very nicely, but the synchro teeth are not holding up too well. I did contact a company about the possibility of making a new ring of synchro teeth, then machining off the stock dog teeth and welding on the new ring. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

About mid way through this season I set my spark cut rev limiter to 6500 and started shifting at about 6300. That combined with not WOT shifting seem to fix my problem of missing gears for now.


by the way, I was always going to tell you- that is THE best Omni picture ever, looks GREAT! I love the flames.

Thanks!
That was from when they did a photo shoot of my car for Mopar Enthusiast magazine. Boy was it COLD that day. It was in January of February. It had been snowing the day and night before. The shoot started at 6am and lasted till about 1pm. We were completely froze by the time it was over.
They never ran the shoot in the mag, but about 2 years later they ran it in Street and Tuner Milestones mag.

[turboshad]

I'm not sure it adds much to the thread but I was shifting at 7500-7800 this year with no real problems. I didn't try WOT but the year before I was able to WOT 1-2 and 2-3 at 6700. I never could get 3-4 but I also wasn't running a full ignition cut so it wasn't fully pulling the power off. I was hoping to try it with a full cut this year but I never got a chance. (Read, I felt I had room for huge improvement in other areas before I need to focus my attention on a WOT shift) I swear that is one of the hardest mental blocks for me to work though, not lifting my right foot. :confused:

The tranny will be coming out this winter and I think I will man up and take a few teeth off. I mean what the heck, you won't know until you try.

[Reeves]

I'm not sure it adds much to the thread but I was shifting at 7500-7800 this year with no real problems. I didn't try WOT but the year before I was able to WOT 1-2 and 2-3 at 6700. I never could get 3-4 but I also wasn't running a full ignition cut so it wasn't fully pulling the power off. I was hoping to try it with a full cut this year but I never got a chance. (Read, I felt I had room for huge improvement in other areas before I need to focus my attention on a WOT shift) I swear that is one of the hardest mental blocks for me to work though, not lifting my right foot. :confused:

The tranny will be coming out this winter and I think I will man up and take a few teeth off. I mean what the heck, you won't know until you try.

I agree.

What clutch you running?

[turboshad]

I agree.

What clutch you running?

TU 4 puck with purple plate. It's a sprung hub which I can't seem to keep the springs happy in but I'm afraid to try an unsprung in traffic.

[135sohc]

Lots of great transmission information coming forward in this thread. Now to just find a company who can make some new parts so this continual recycling of worn out stuff doesnt have to happen.

[85glht]

Lots of great transmission information coming forward in this thread. Now to just find a company who can make some new parts so this continual recycling of worn out stuff doesnt have to happen.

I agree. That is my biggest fear, not being able to get anymore new parts for these cars.

[Aerosmith145]

Any results from cutting the dogs on your tranny? I'm curious about reliability.. Very curious!

[Reeves]

I never cut mine......yet.

[Aerosmith145]

Wait, which teeth have you been referring to? The sychro teeth or matching gear teeth?

Someone may have already asked this, but I don't remember.

I imagine the end result would have to be both in order to actually open the engagement window. Theoretically, 3 teeth on the gear would have the same window as stock if the synchro still has all the teeth. Right? And if you cut teeth off both sides, wouldn't there be slop/lash after engagement in throttle transition (speeding up and slowing down on the freeway)? I know what the answer's going to be - "It's race only; there is no throttle transition!" :D


EDIT:

Wait, if we're only talking about synchromesh teeth (both sides) being cut for ENGAGEMENT, it wouldn't affect power holding or slop because the SPLINES remain unaffected. Am I just too tired?

[turboshad]

Only synchro teeth, not actual gear teeth.

[Aerosmith145]

Only synchro teeth, not actual gear teeth.

Ok, but both sides?

[Reaper1]

I thought the GEAR teeth were what was cut off. If it's the selector ring teeth, that makes it even easier! Also, I don't think the brass would need to be cut at all. That simply slows the gear down and aids in guiding the selector ring onto the gear. I REALLY thought it was the gear that needed the modification.

More clarification is needed...PLEASE! I want to try this when I put my other tranny back together!!

[135sohc]

If the whole idea of this is to 'open the window' on having the selector ring being able to 'catch' the freewheeling speed gear how will cutting only the teeth on the selector ring and/or stop ring do anything ? when its still trying to mesh up to a full ring of teeth on the speed/drive gear.

[turboshad]

Only synchro teeth, not actual gear teeth.

I retract my statement on the grounds of being stupid and not getting what you were putting down. In my head I was thinking "gear teeth" not "synchro teeth on the gear". 28027

According the the KC it is both brass and gear.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?107-FAQ-Crash-Box-Semi-Synchro-Gearbox

[Reeves]

Info has also been added that the brass stop ring does NOT really need every other tooth removed. It can stay stock.

You take every other synchro tooth off the gear itself AND the selector ring.

I have NOT tried this yet. Just saying what we have read/found so far on this subject.

[Aerosmith145]

Info has also been added that the brass stop ring does NOT really need every other tooth removed. It can stay stock.

You take every other synchro tooth off the gear itself AND the selector ring.

I have NOT tried this yet. Just saying what we have read/found so far on this subject.


I retract my statement on the grounds of being stupid and not getting what you were putting down. In my head I was thinking "gear teeth" not "synchro teeth on the gear". 28027

According the the KC it is both brass and gear.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?107-FAQ-Crash-Box-Semi-Synchro-Gearbox

Thanks guys. Why does this sound so fun to try????? :D

[Reeves]

I'm willing and ready to try it! Anyone got a 555 gearset to donate? Just need 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.

Oh, and I'm gonna need another 3.05fd intermediate shaft, with ring gear preferred.

I think I got everything else.

[135sohc]

Think it would be better to try this on a ragged out gearset ? Since your not worried about the shifting quality since everything will be slamming together when shifting anyways.

[Reaper1]

From reading the KC article it doesn't seem as thought the shift quality will actually be much worse. It will just be able to engage the gear quicker, which is what I'm after. I don't know if it's me, or the tranny, but so far EVERY manual turbo mopar I've owned doesn't seem to engage the gear as quickly as I want. 2nd is the one I have the most issue with. It doesn't grind, but more "crunches" into gear when I'm shifting fast, if that makes any sense. This has happened on old trannies, rebuilt trannies, stock clutches, aftermarket clutches, stock shifters, short shifters, 4-plane and 3-plane trannies.

According to a coworker who is a Ford fan, Mustang T5's experience a similar issue.

I don't have the problem when on a road course or auto crossing as the demand for shifting fast isn't as great, but being smooth is more important, so my shift times increase a bit in that situation.

[Reaper1]

Any updates? Anybody tried the semi-crash box yet? :D

[Reeves]

Any updates? Anybody tried the semi-crash box yet? :D

I'm working on getting the parts to do it.

Anyone got a 555 gearset or at least 2nd thru 4th gears to experiment with?

:thumb:

Also scored (2) more 3.05 gearsets for spares.

Still working on getting a clutch.

[135sohc]

3rd and 4th can be from a 568.

[Reeves]

3rd and 4th can be from a 568.

Awesome! Did not know that!

So I'm looking for 2nd gear from a 555
And I'm looking for 3rd and 4th gear from a 555 or 568

[135sohc]

3-4-5 are the same for every 555-568

1-2 unique to 87-88

2nd is the same 89+

1st is 89-91 and 92-93


Since your running the earlier style shaft with the brass ring 1-2 synchronizer, 2nd would need to be from an 87-88 a555.

[Reeves]

3-4-5 are the same for every 555-568

1-2 unique to 87-88

2nd is the same 89+

1st is 89-91 and 92-93


Since your running the earlier style shaft with the brass ring 1-2 synchronizer, 2nd would need to be from an 87-88 a555.

Very good info. Thanks.

2nd is the one I want to semi-crash box the most. But 3rd and 4th would also be a big plus.

[Reaper1]

I also want to note that van A555's have a different 1st gear ration all together. I have one in my posession! :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

I also want to note that van A555's have a different 1st gear ration all together. I have one in my posession! :thumb:

Lower or taller?

[turboshad]

Anyone got a 555 gearset or at least 2nd thru 4th gears to experiment with?

Experimenting is for pansies.......just DO IT!! :evil:

[Reeves]

Experimenting is for pansies.......just DO IT!! :evil:

I'm ready to JUST DO IT.....but I don't want it to be out for the season either if something goes wrong.....

[135sohc]

Do you still have the old gears that you replaced with the current ones ?

[Reaper1]

Higher numerical, so it basically becomes a "granny" 1st gear for the rest of us. In the van it works great! I've driven one with both. Honestly, for drage racing and such I don't see any advantage to it, but it's interesting to know it's out there! :thumb:

[Reeves]

Do you still have the old gears that you replaced with the current ones ?

If you are asking about the 3.50 gear, it got exploded like.

If you are asking about the 2 and 4 (I believe it was) that I replaced last season, I think I pitched them as the synchro teeth were HORRIBLE......but, I see what point you might be trying to make, in that I could probably crash box those.

Supposed to be relatively warm here today.....I might have to do some digging in my transmission shed!

[135sohc]

I see what point you might be trying to make, in that I could probably crash box those.


Yes thats what I was getting to. If your gonna take the plunge and start cutting why not give it a go on some already 'gone' gears ? Got nothing to loose if it doesnt work out for ya.

[Reeves]

Yes thats what I was getting to. If your gonna take the plunge and start cutting why not give it a go on some already 'gone' gears ? Got nothing to loose if it doesnt work out for ya.

I agree. That is not a bad idea at all. Wish I had another Quaife as I would just built a complete trans and then swap it.

[135sohc]

I did contact a company about the possibility of making a new ring of synchro teeth, then machining off the stock dog teeth and welding on the new ring. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Do you remember the actual $$$ amount ? Not like I'm in the position to be saying much but $150-200** per gear to get them refurbished to like new condition seems like a more realistic idea than seeking out parts from the woodwork that dont exist anymore and buying half a dozen core transmissions just to scrape together one usable set of parts out of them all.

**(those figures are estimates based upon seeing similar services offered online for other transmissions)



I agree. That is not a bad idea at all. Wish I had another Quaife as I would just built a complete trans and then swap it.

Why not try the OBX ? (yes I know its a POS in comparison, but still for 1/3 the price...)

[Reeves]

Do you remember the actual $$$ amount ? Not like I'm in the position to be saying much but $150-200** per gear to get them refurbished to like new condition seems like a more realistic idea than seeking out parts from the woodwork that dont exist anymore and buying half a dozen core transmissions just to scrape together one usable set of parts out of them all.

**(those figures are estimates based upon seeing similar services offered online for other transmissions)




Why not try the OBX ? (yes I know its a POS in comparison, but still for 1/3 the price...)

I don't think they ever gave me a price. I think we would have to get a group buy together most likely.

Yes, I have considered an OBX. Anyone destroyed one yet?

[Turbo3Iroc]

I have yet to kill my OBX.

[bakes]

I don't think they ever gave me a price. I think we would have to get a group buy together most likely.

Yes, I have considered an OBX. Anyone destroyed one yet?

If Simon has not yet your good to go!!!!:thumb:

[Reaper1]

I think 1 person on here has destroyed one, but it was found to be because the bolts holding it together weren't tightened down! Go through it before installation and I don't think it'll be an issue.

[BadAssPerformance]

Yes, I have considered an OBX. Anyone destroyed one yet?

I haven't been able to ... damnit *knocks on wood*

[turboshad]

Mine's still tickin......... whether it's a time bomb or not is anyone's call. ;)

Why not build the other trans and just swap out the diffs when you change them? That's pretty easy to do.

[440dart]

If Simon has not yet your good to go!!!!:thumb:


sorry simon but thats funny, everybody rags on you so hard here hahahahah

[135sohc]

Mine's still tickin......... whether it's a time bomb or not is anyone's call. ;)

Why not build the other trans and just swap out the diffs when you change them? That's pretty easy to do.

Its always best to keep the ring and pinion gear as a matched set.

[Reaper1]

The OBX can be swapped to another ring gear....no biggie.

[turbovanman²]

I don't think they ever gave me a price. I think we would have to get a group buy together most likely.

Yes, I have considered an OBX. Anyone destroyed one yet?

I've tried, trust me, I've tried, :p I thought I did but turned out I split the trans case, and stripped the pinion gear, whoops.

I've had it in since May of 06, probably put 40,000+ Km's on it, tons of drag racing, even welded up the washers and it still works just fine. I paid $230 for mine off Ebay, he didn't need it anymore, best money I ever spent. :D

[turboshad]

The OBX can be swapped to another ring gear....no biggie.

What he said. You would also want to re-shim the diff bearings which basically translates to replace them but that isn't a whole bunch of extra time on the swap and is something you would be doing anyway.

[135sohc]

The OBX can be swapped to another ring gear....no biggie.

Assuming you've already got a 2nd ring gear machined, drilled and tapped ready to go ? the 3.05 isnt a direct drop in.

(thought I posted this last night but it didnt show up :confused2: )

Reeves: I'll be sending that puller and the second adapter cup out today.

[Reaper1]

Assuming you've already got a 2nd ring gear machined, drilled and tapped ready to go ? the 3.05 isnt a direct drop in.

(thought I posted this last night but it didnt show up :confused2: )

Reeves: I'll be sending that puller and the second adapter cup out today.

Now I'll admit that I didn't know that!

[135sohc]

The 525 ring gear is 8 bolts, vs the 12 on everything else.

[Reeves]

Assuming you've already got a 2nd ring gear machined, drilled and tapped ready to go ? the 3.05 isnt a direct drop in.

(thought I posted this last night but it didnt show up :confused2: )

Reeves: I'll be sending that puller and the second adapter cup out today.

I recently got 2 more 3.05 gearsets.....so hopefully sometime soon I'll machine the new bolt pattern in them. My machinist will REALLY hate me for doing another set. As he put it "That ring gear is harder than a wedding d!ck!"

Thanks for sending me that puller! Can't wait to try it out!

[135sohc]

Just avoid the temptation to use it on anything much bigger than that case bearing. I used it on the differential cones and didnt realize how much I reamed out of the inside edge of the grabber fingers with the center insert, cause its way to small for the set 11 sized bearings.

[Reeves]

Removed camshaft. Shipped to TN.

[Reaper1]

Is that to have it put on the Spintron?

[Reeves]

Is that to have it put on the Spintron?

Yessir.

[Reaper1]

Cool!

[turbovanman²]

Isn't a spintron for valve springs?

[Reeves]

Isn't a spintron for valve springs?

Cam doctor

Simon, you sending a Super 60 roller to test out?
If it tests out to be a true roller version of a Super 60, then I will buy at least 1 of them, and probably more than 1.

[88_pacifica]

Cam doctor

Simon, you sending a Super 60 roller to test out?
If it tests out to be a true roller version of a Super 60, then I will buy at least 1 of them, and probably more than 1.

Are you doing those 2 '88 TBI cams as well? I would think those specs would be worth a pretty penny to a few ppl here. :thumb:

[Reeves]

Are you doing those 2 '88 TBI cams as well? I would think those specs would be worth a pretty penny to a few ppl here. :thumb:

I offered them up, but he already had 1 of the 88 TBI's. I also sent a 88 TII roller.

[88_pacifica]

I offered them up, but he already had 1 of the 88 TBI's. I also sent a 88 TII roller.

Good deal... I am curious what the specs are and how much overlap they have versus the turbo's.

[Reaper1]

Yeah, I goofed on the name, but he knew what I meant! LOL :thumb:

[Reeves]

So I've been working on this new dual disc clutch setup since last fall. Preliminary fitting isn't going so great. It had 3" long, 3/8" diameter studs coming out of the modified stocker flywheel that everything stacked up on. Well, the nuts that held it all together were hitting the bellhousing BAD! So I got some 3/8" FHCS bolts and went to town in a Bridgeport with a 82* countersink. That got rid of the issue with the nuts hitting, but now the entire face of the aluminum pressure plate is hitting. More to come.

Shadow, look at tape measure.

Thinner discs are available, so that may help, as well as I'm thinking of shaving the flywheel down a bit.

3301133014330133301233015

[Shadow]

Nice! Funny that our heights, while being too high (as in interference) were identicle at 3" even though nether one of us gave out any info while we were both putting our twins together! lol

I would deff look into the possibility of removing material from the flywheel as a first option. Less rotating mass = good things, so it would end up being a ++.

Although, if you had an accurate weight on your discs, and Mcleod could give you an accurate weight on the thinner sintered discs and they were the same or Lighter, that could also be benificial.

[Reeves]

Did some more work on it today. 3/8" seems to be the magic number for the space I need to gain in order to make things work. I'm thinking that the McLeod guy told me that the sintered iron discs are about 3/32" thinner. So two of them would gain me 3/16". Now if I shave 3/16" from the flywheel wear surface, I would have my 3/8". I need to make sure that the flywheel mounting bolts won't interfer. Stay tuned.

Warren is in possesion of his digital scale right now, so I couldn't weigh anything today.

[cordes]

Wow, thanks for sharing those pics. It's really cool to see the process behind this, even if only a little bit of it.

[PunKid]

Is it possible to space the trans back similar to your mock up? I think you would still be able to shift the assembly over that amount in the engine bay to keep the diff in the correct location for the axle. I guess the limit would be the engagement of the splines on the disk.

[Reeves]

Is it possible to space the trans back similar to your mock up? I think you would still be able to shift the assembly over that amount in the engine bay to keep the diff in the correct location for the axle. I guess the limit would be the engagement of the splines on the disk.

I had thought about laser cutting some new dust shields from 1/4" thick aluminum or so, which might also add some strength to the bellhousing area......but, I'd def have to check starter to ring gear engagement.

[Reeves]

Can anyone find the part number for this rubber grommet? I'd like to see if they are still available and if I can order one. As you can see, it puts the clutch cable on an angle and uses the other hole in the trans.

I think they came on later cars (91 and up?).

Thanks to Rob (aka Shadow) for the pic and info on it.

[135sohc]

That grommet and the plastic angle spacer are both NLA.

[Reeves]

That grommet and the plastic angle spacer are both NLA.

Figures...
Anyone have a spare I can purchase? Need ASAP.

[135sohc]

grommet # 4295594
spacer/angle block # 4641289

Call the dealer and see if they can locate one for you ? I have a 1-2 of them but god knows where they are right now...

[bakes]

Call Johhny i think he made some poly ones

[turbovanman²]

Pretty cool stuff Reeve's. I think you'd be fine running a shim between the trans and block, the starter seems to use alot of teeth so 3/8 won't matter, plus we have low compression engines anyhow.

What trans are you using to mock up? And do all tranny's have the same clearance or could some be different?

[Reeves]

grommet # 4295594
spacer/angle block # 4641289

Call the dealer and see if they can locate one for you ? I have a 1-2 of them but god knows where they are right now...

I will call the dealer.....but my dealer SUCKS!!!


Call Johhny i think he made some poly ones

I will!




What trans are you using to mock up? And do all tranny's have the same clearance or could some be different?

That is a A-555 in the pic with a window cut in the bottom so I can see what is going on inside the bellhousing.
According to measurements by Shadow, most of our trans have about the same amount of room inside.


Good news though! I will hopefully have some thinner sintered iron discs to try out this week.

[turbovanman²]

That is a A-555 in the pic with a window cut in the bottom so I can see what is going on inside the bellhousing.
According to measurements by Shadow, most of our trans have about the same amount of room inside.


Good news though! I will hopefully have some thinner sintered iron discs to try out this week.

Good to know, :nod:

[Clay]

if the starter won't engage we can always add a pull start from a briggs.

[135sohc]

I will call the dealer.....but my dealer SUCKS!!!


877-370-5646
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?siteid=214996

I call them alot. Done a few orders with them, good dealership.

[Reeves]

I will call the dealer.....but my dealer SUCKS!!!

I totally take back this statement. I called them and asked to speak with the parts MANAGER. I then remembered that I've spoke with this guy before and he's very knowledgable of how to find parts and is even knowledgable of our cars! (He has a black 1990 VNT LeBaron for sale BTW)

4295594 seems to be still available.
4641289 is no longer available and no dealers have any stock :( But then he helped me out by telling me what all they came on! And he told me the old part number was 464118.

91-94 P-body
93 J-body
93 G-body
93 AA-body
And some Caravans

Anyone have one?

[rx2mazda]

So glad you and Rob are Quartebacking this thing!

[86Shelby]

If you do run the spacer I would look into doing something with the starter. If you mount it with the spacer between it and the trans it would be wise to find some way to support the nose of the starter in the bellhousing. If you mount it directly to the trans, finding a way to limit the travel of the gear would be viable also.

[Reeves]

Looks like I may have found the clutch cable grommet and spacer. There is a 93 Shadow and a 93 Daytona in my local yard. Now I just have to figure out how to get there with this dang thing called work getting in the way.

[bakes]

Looks like I may have found the clutch cable grommet and spacer. There is a 93 Shadow and a 93 Daytona in my local yard. Now I just have to figure out how to get there with this dang thing called work getting in the way.

Ahh Work is over rated!!!!! LOL

[Reeves]

Looks like I may have found the clutch cable grommet and spacer. There is a 93 Shadow and a 93 Daytona in my local yard. Now I just have to figure out how to get there with this dang thing called work getting in the way.

Went to the yard at lunch. Spent 2 hours looking for the Shadow that doesn't exist. The Daytona was an automatic.......sigh. Anyone have one of these?

On a good note, the weather was perfect and it was fun to go yarding again....even though I came back completly empty handed.

[Shadow]

PM sent......

[Shadow]

Follow-up PM sent. :eyebrows:

[135sohc]

If you need one I found one. Not the one I thought I had but it should work.

[Reeves]

If you need one I found one. Not the one I thought I had but it should work.

I'd def like to have it. PM'd.

[shackwrrr]

If the block plate includes the mounting point for the starter then it would be spaced correctly for the flywheel. You would have to extend the nose of the starter so it still engaged in the hole though. Also you could make it a motor mount and do what "top fuel" bender did and make it a midplate to do away with the front motor mount and bobble strut. Ill find pics of it.


Edit: here you go

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/DSCF00111.JPG

[135sohc]

I sent you what I could find. should arrive saturday or monday assuming those retards dont loose it like the last package (sonnax order that took them 2 weeks to deliver..)

[Reeves]

Made some more progress last night as the new iron discs showed up. Only need about .100" to go! Gonna shave the flywheel a little. Sorry this is so short and no pics.

[Reeves]

It LIVES! Pics and info coming soon.

---------- Post added at 10:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 AM ----------


It LIVES! Pics and info coming soon.

Oh, and drove it to work today! (50 miles each way)

[Aries_Turbo]

how does the disc behave?

[Reeves]

how does the disc behave?


You mean discs?

[Directconnection]

Yay!

(waiting to hear how well it all works for you)

[BadAssPerformance]

Sweet!

[Aries_Turbo]

You mean discs?

you know what i mean smart --- ;)

[Shadow]

So, how's it feel? How does it engage? How does it dissengage? Hows the peddal? Like stock? Broken in yet? How bout now?







































Not yet?




























What about now? :lol::p

[BadAssPerformance]

What about now? :lol::p

Now? ;)

[Reeves]

Quick update:
Works great. Have about 200 miles on it so far.
Pedal is a little stiffer than stock, but not bad.
Sounds like your squealing tires at every take off from a dead stop.
Very quiet when disengaged (kinda surprised)

Have not thrown any real power to it yet. Just cruising.

[contraption22]

Awesome!

[csxtra]

quick update:
Sounds like your squealing tires at every take off from a dead stop.


Because Race Car!!

[Rampage16V]

Cool set up need that open bell housing on the street so you can show it off!

[Shadow]

Sounds like your squealing tires at every take off from a dead stop.


Because the discs make a squeeling noise when you engage them? Or because the engagement it like a switch and you actually ARE squeeling the tires?

[turbovanman²]

Awesome news, :nod:

[turboshad]

Because the discs make a squeeling noise when you engage them? Or because the engagement it like a switch and you actually ARE squeeling the tires?

I think he's just making the sounds with his lips. I bet they even squeel on gravel. :thumb:

[Reeves]

The discs squeal a little taking off from a dead stop. I've got about 400 miles on it now!~ :thumb:
Very smooth!

[Pat]

The discs squeal a little taking off from a dead stop. I've got about 400 miles on it now!~ :thumb:
Very smooth!

Burn-out! Burn-out! Burn-out!

[shadow88]

The discs squeal a little taking off from a dead stop. I've got about 400 miles on it now!~ :thumb:
Very smooth!

My sintered iron rev-lok clutch squealed on engagement too. It didn't last long either because it ate into the flywheel and pressure plate until there wasn't enough clamping force.

[cordes]

Wow. That's some fast work Reeves. Congrats on getting it on the street. Now get it to the track!

[Reeves]

My sintered iron rev-lok clutch squealed on engagement too. It didn't last long either because it ate into the flywheel and pressure plate until there wasn't enough clamping force.

This pressure plate is adjustable for wear!

[shadow88]

This pressure plate is adjustable for wear!

That sounds very truck-like! I didn't go through 22 pages to see it, but was there a picture of the pressure plate and it's manufacturer?

[csxtra]

The pics are here (after countersinking the pressure plate so the bolts wouldn't hit the bell housing):

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?44482-Reeves-OMNI-GLH-R-Update!&p=837531&viewfull=1#post837531

[BadAssPerformance]

I think he's just making the sounds with his lips. I bet they even squeel on gravel. :thumb:

LOL...

Cool that it works Reeves... take it to the track now! :nod:

[Reeves]

Here is my documentation on the installation of the Reeves/Mcleod dual disc clutch for other do-it-yourselfers. Mcleod and me have been talking about a possible group buy or possible production of the units if there is any interest.

Mcleod Dual Disc Clutch Documentation:
Dual 8” discs, 2200lb plate

Thickness issues:
New dual disc clutch from McLeod needed .305” more clearance as received with .330” thick ceramic clutch plates to fit in the trans. This does not include the thickness of the dust shields, which will give us a tad of buffer (.040”). This is AFTER removing the studs that came with the clutch, and using 3/8”-16 FHCS grade 8 bolts from Fastenal and using a 82* countersink on the new pressure plate.
As the clutch was received from Mcleod, it was 2.900” from crank to fingers according to Mcleod. I did not verify this measurement.
Ordered new .250” iron discs to save more room on 8/8/11.
.330” (x2) = .660” for the ceramic discs
.250” (x2) = .500” for the iron discs
So with new iron discs, we save .160”. This leaves us with 0.145” to make up still.
I plan to take 0.145” off the face of the modified stock flywheel. Need to measure how much material that will leave from the back of the flywheel (where relief cut).

Update:
Remeasured and refitted again and only needed 0.110” removed from the face of the flywheel.

33590 33596 33592

Flywheel Mods:
Shaved .110” from the face of the flywheel. This also required to counterbore the flywheel mounting holes .110” deep and .930” O.D. Next time I will do .140” deep and .950” O.D. as the rivets on the first disc are pretty close to the mounting bolt heads and you could use a tad more room for your socket to fit on the bolts. After machining, I had the flywheel resurfaced to be sure it was perfectly flat.
After counterboring the mounting holes, you must either grind your stock flywheel bolts a tad shorter, or use flexplate mounting bolts (which is what I did), otherwise, they hit the #5 main cap.

33594 33593

Flexplate:
Only mod to the flexplate itself was the countersinking of the mounting holes for flat head cap screw bolts.

Clutch discs:
As stated above, the ceramic discs were too thick to fit without major modding. Went with the iron discs.
Since the iron discs are thinner, I had to remove some of the shims that came with the clutch for wear adjustment. It came with 15 shims from Mcleod. After installing the new thinner iron discs, I only needed 8 shims (.170”). I removed 7 shims (.160”). This also made installation easier, as the stack up of 15 shims was kind of hard to hold.
The wear adjustment is very nice, as you can lay a flat edge across the outer face of the pressure plate when it is all installed, and remove or add shims to make the fingers flush with the flat edge.

33603 33607 33608 33609 33597 33598

Clutch Arm Modifications:
Measuring the stock throw of the clutch cable, I came up with 3.5” at full rest and 2.25” full stroke. That is 1.25” actual cable throw.
Measuring end of stock arm (at the little tab on the cable retainer) I got 3.5” at full rest and 1.75” at full stroke. That equals 1.75” actual arm throw.
New clutch requires minimum of .250” throw at throw out bearing. Lengthening the stock clutch arm 1.25” and giving it 1.25” throw seems to release the discs nicely. Have not measured actual throw of throw out bearing yet.
Ended up extending the clutch arm 1.5” total.

33606 33605

Weights:
Ceramic discs = 4lb 13.8oz together
Iron discs = 4lb 4.8oz together
Shaved Flywheel after machining = 13lb 5.4oz
Shaved Flywheel after machining and grinding flat = 13lb 4.2oz
Floater Flywheel = 2lb 6.0oz
Aluminum Pressure Plate = 7lb 1.6oz
Dual Disc Clutch Complete (with bolts, spacers, shims) = 27lb 12.6oz
Dual Disc Clutch Complete after grinding flywheel flat = 27lb 11.0oz
33591 33599 33595 33600 33601 3360233604
For reference, my Spec DD pressure plate and Rev-Lock disc and mounting bolts = 16lb 3.4oz
Rev-Lock disc = 3lb 13.0oz
My old flywheel = 17lbs 15.4oz
My old clutch setup complete with bolts = 34lbs 2.4oz

["Top Fuel" Bender]

could you be a little more specific next time :p
Nice write up thanks :clap:

[ShelGame]

Do they regularly use countersunk bolts on the pressure plate?

[Shadow]

Nice write-up! Can hardly wait for track testing! :nod:

[csxtra]

Nice write-up! Can hardly wait for track testing! :nod:

Rob, initial track testing results are here:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?60668-Mopar-FWD-Drags-at-Columbus-OH-8-28&p=844567&viewfull=1#post844567

[Reeves]

Stock k-frame and a-arms complete = 41lbs.

New Slowe Racing K-Frame and DJ's Race Tailored Engineering A-Arms = 28.5lbs.

This was without the bobble strut mount on the Slowe Racing K-Frame. So add a tad for the 2 pieces.

Sorry, didn't take any pictures of the install....but it went smoothly. Def needed to line it all back up afterwords. And also I'm planning to move the driver a-arm forward a tad more to center the wheel in the opening.

[Reeves]

Reeves Racing/Creative Fabrication Scatter Shield = 9lb 5.2oz

33618


Mockup:

33617

On the vehicle:

33619

Fit like a glove!

Tested it this weekend at IFO. It contained whatever broke in my trans :thumb:

I'll be making another one for a friend that requested it. Any interest in any more?

[turbovanman²]

Wow, looks like you shaved off 1/2 the weight of the clutch, that's gotta help with RPM, :nod:

Nice shield, setting timing is going to be a bugger, :banghead:

[Reeves]

Wow, looks like you shaved off 1/2 the weight of the clutch, that's gotta help with RPM, :nod:

Nice shield, setting timing is going to be a bugger, :banghead:

No it has a removable timing window cover.

[Shadow]

Rob, initial track testing results are here:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?60668-Mopar-FWD-Drags-at-Columbus-OH-8-28&p=844567&viewfull=1#post844567

Thanks. :thumb: (can't believe I missed that)

Bummer about the carnage though.......

[Pat]

Reeves Racing/Creative Fabrication Scatter Shield = 9lb 5.2oz

33618


Mockup:

33617

On the vehicle:

33619

Fit like a glove!

Tested it this weekend at IFO. It contained whatever broke in my trans :thumb:

I'll be making another one for a friend that requested it. Any interest in any more?

Came out great! Very nice work.

Sorry to hear the trans let go, but glad you got it under control safely.

[Reeves]

Came out great! Very nice work.

Sorry to hear the trans let go, but glad you got it under control safely.

It was a little scary at first. I've never had to stop that fast at that speed. Probably want to look into some even less aggressive pads on the back than I already have.

[contraption22]

Really nice work, dude!

Hey, were you spraying at Columbus last weekend? The reason I ask is that if you spray a small shot out of the hole, the increased torque and faster spool may allow you to leave at lower rpm which much easier on the drivetrain and may actually help with traction as well. Have it switch off at a particular boost level so traction isn't an issue once the motor gets into it's happy range.

When I worked at the Speed Shop I had a customer with a fairly radical 911 turbo. Car was setup mostly for road race, but dragstrip action was part of this triathalon event he was involved in. He had alot of trouble getting the drivetrain to live in drag strip style launches. His solution was to spray it out of the hole for all of the above reasons. Once he started doing that, the car held together.

[turboshad]

New Slowe Racing K-Frame and DJ's A-arms (sorry DJ, couldn't remember the company name you were using, tell me and I'll insert it here) = 28.5lbs.


Race Tailored Engineering. You would know if I could get stupid outlook to sync up with my email account so I could get you your invoice. :facepalm: :why is there no faceplam smiley?:

I've been silently watching everything from the sidelines. Those clutches you and Rob are working with are pure bedtime lovin. :love: Too bad about the trans but once that is figured it will be cool to see how the whole package has helped out the car.

[Reeves]

Really nice work, dude!

Hey, were you spraying at Columbus last weekend? The reason I ask is that if you spray a small shot out of the hole, the increased torque and faster spool may allow you to leave at lower rpm which much easier on the drivetrain and may actually help with traction as well. Have it switch off at a particular boost level so traction isn't an issue once the motor gets into it's happy range.

When I worked at the Speed Shop I had a customer with a fairly radical 911 turbo. Car was setup mostly for road race, but dragstrip action was part of this triathalon event he was involved in. He had alot of trouble getting the drivetrain to live in drag strip style launches. His solution was to spray it out of the hole for all of the above reasons. Once he started doing that, the car held together.

Hmmmmm........

Do you spray while on 2-step and no load??


Race Tailored Engineering. You would know if I could get stupid outlook to sync up with my email account so I could get you your invoice. :facepalm: :why is there no faceplam smiley?:

I've been silently watching everything from the sidelines. Those clutches you and Rob are working with are pure bedtime lovin. :love: Too bad about the trans but once that is figured it will be cool to see how the whole package has helped out the car.

I modified the orginal post. Thanks!
I'm REALLY happy with the clutch so far.

[Reaper1]

Ouch on the carnage....

I am looking forward to the evaluation and pics of what happened, though.

[BadAssPerformance]

Stock k-frame and a-arms complete = 41lbs.

New Slowe Racing K-Frame and DJ's Race Tailored Engineering A-Arms = 28.5lbs.

Wow, that's a bunch! ... so, how much of the 41lbs is the stab bar and hardware?


Reeves Racing/Creative Fabrication Scatter Shield = 9lb 5.2oz

Tested it this weekend at IFO. It contained whatever broke in my trans :thumb:

I'll be making another one for a friend that requested it. Any interest in any more?

Glad you beat me to making them! PLEASE put together a "group buy" thread :thumb:


Really nice work, dude!

Hey, were you spraying at Columbus last weekend? The reason I ask is that if you spray a small shot out of the hole, the increased torque and faster spool may allow you to leave at lower rpm which much easier on the drivetrain and may actually help with traction as well. Have it switch off at a particular boost level so traction isn't an issue once the motor gets into it's happy range.

When I worked at the Speed Shop I had a customer with a fairly radical 911 turbo. Car was setup mostly for road race, but dragstrip action was part of this triathalon event he was involved in. He had alot of trouble getting the drivetrain to live in drag strip style launches. His solution was to spray it out of the hole for all of the above reasons. Once he started doing that, the car held together.

Interesting... I could see this working except tricky in a 5-speed as 1st gear is pretty short and if it spins hard, gotta "clean it out" before shifting

[turbovanman²]

No it has a removable timing window cover.

Schweet, :nod:

[ShelGame]

It was a little scary at first. I've never had to stop that fast at that speed. Probably want to look into some even less aggressive pads on the back than I already have.

Do you know what broke yet?

The reason I asked about the c'sunk bolts earlier is - I've broken them in a similar application (on a motorcycle sprocket). C'sunk bolts in a torque application are usually not a good idea. The angle of the head tends to act as a wedge under torque and put an axial load (stretch) on the bolts. If the torque is high enough, the bolts can yield (ie, permanently stretch) which will reduce the clamp load and they'll eventually shear...

[contraption22]

Hmmmmm........

Do you spray while on 2-step and no load??


Are you at WOT when on the 2-step?

[trannybuster]

Do you know what broke yet?

The reason I asked about the c'sunk bolts earlier is - I've broken them in a similar application (on a motorcycle sprocket). C'sunk bolts in a torque application are usually not a good idea. The angle of the head tends to act as a wedge under torque and put an axial load (stretch) on the bolts. If the torque is high enough, the bolts can yield (ie, permanently stretch) which will reduce the clamp load and they'll eventually shear...

But it looks like he designed in dowel pins...?

[Reeves]

Ouch on the carnage....

I am looking forward to the evaluation and pics of what happened, though.

Just got home from NY....will start unloading the trailer tonight. May start tearing down tonight as well. Stay tuned. LOL.


Wow, that's a bunch! ... so, how much of the 41lbs is the stab bar and hardware?



Glad you beat me to making them! PLEASE put together a "group buy" thread :thumb:



Interesting... I could see this working except tricky in a 5-speed as 1st gear is pretty short and if it spins hard, gotta "clean it out" before shifting

I think you meant sway bar? The 41lbs is NO SWAYBAR AND NO HARDWARE. Sorry, forgot to put that in the original post. I haven't ran a sway bar for a long time.

I just might do the group buy thing. Would make sense since I will be removing this one again anyway.

Yeah, not sure at all how to leave with NOS in a manual? :confused: Unless you had a clutch switch when the pedal came off the floor?


Do you know what broke yet?

The reason I asked about the c'sunk bolts earlier is - I've broken them in a similar application (on a motorcycle sprocket). C'sunk bolts in a torque application are usually not a good idea. The angle of the head tends to act as a wedge under torque and put an axial load (stretch) on the bolts. If the torque is high enough, the bolts can yield (ie, permanently stretch) which will reduce the clamp load and they'll eventually shear...

Interesting and understandable. I'll check them out to be sure, but these clutches are rated for 900 lb/ft and normally come with (6) 5/16" bolts. This one is (6) 3/8" bolts. Someone could probably do the math on that if I gave them the bolt circle diameter?

I also had to c'sink a sprocket on the back of a bike for a fatter tire. Didn't have any problems and still don't, but it don't make a whole lot of power.


Are you at WOT when on the 2-step?

Yes.
I try to be at WOT for at least 1320 feet. :)

[Pat]

Yeah, not sure at all how to leave with NOS in a manual? :confused: Unless you had a clutch switch when the pedal came off the floor?



Arming swtich, WOT switch and a switch on the shifter is how I've done it on the ScAries. I can leave at less rpm, get the clutch out or at least part of the way out with less rpm, hit the switch on the shifter and off she flies. Last time out, this was netting me high 1.6's, low 1.7's.

This has been helpful for me since I'm not running a cal with a 2 step, so I'm not leaving with boost. Without spray, I can net the same ST's, but I have to leave much harder to do it, which with my 140k mile tbi axles, I'd prefer not to do. :-)

[Reeves]

Arming swtich, WOT switch and a switch on the shifter is how I've done it on the ScAries. I can leave at less rpm, get the clutch out or at least part of the way out with less rpm, hit the switch on the shifter and off she flies. Last time out, this was netting me high 1.6's, low 1.7's.

This has been helpful for me since I'm not running a cal with a 2 step, so I'm not leaving with boost. Without spray, I can net the same ST's, but I have to leave much harder to do it, which with my 140k mile tbi axles, I'd prefer not to do. :-)

I've got all that stuff!

I've got all that stuff!

[trannybuster]

But it looks like he designed in dowel pins...?

Ahh didnt see the pic with top view of clutches in assembly...

---------- Post added at 06:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 PM ----------

Too bad you couldnt of used s.h.c.s with a shallower c'bore, I hate those tapered bolts they are NOT designed for high-strength applications or max fatigue resistance...any axial loading and off with the head!

[BadAssPerformance]

I think you meant sway bar? The 41lbs is NO SWAYBAR AND NO HARDWARE. Sorry, forgot to put that in the original post. I haven't ran a sway bar for a long time.

I just might do the group buy thing. Would make sense since I will be removing this one again anyway.

Yeah, not sure at all how to leave with NOS in a manual? :confused: Unless you had a clutch switch when the pedal came off the floor?


Stab bar = stabilizer bar = sway bar, LOL...

Wow, that seems heavy for no stab bar? Did you reinforce it at all? I'll have to weigh the 89 Daytona k-member I have here, it feels light

Do eeeeet! :thumb: Oh, an dif you used 1/4" x 4" i have material that I never got to LOL...

Yeah, not asure how to "launch" a stick on the juice... Years and years ago when I squirted the Z to low 13's I was able to use it once it hooked in 1st... in 05/06 when I tried to squirt it again, I could only use it in 3 and 4 as a tap of the button and it would spin to redline in 2nd... BUT, that was a decent sized pill ;)

[Aries_Turbo]

ask sean 1fastcsx289. i think he used to launch his 6-speed 'bird on the juice.

Brian

[BadAssPerformance]

Its different if it hooks

[black86glhs]

Would be nice to find out it was just the bolts and not another trans case. Reeves, you know what grade those bolts were?

[shackwrrr]

Reeves Racing/Creative Fabrication Scatter Shield = 9lb 5.2oz

33618


Mockup:

33617

On the vehicle:

33619

Fit like a glove!

Tested it this weekend at IFO. It contained whatever broke in my trans :thumb:

I'll be making another one for a friend that requested it. Any interest in any more?

I want one! depending on price:(

[Ondonti]

I don't think you are going to hurt anything running a small shot with the clutch pushed in on a 2 step. Its just going to be like you are leaving with more boost but same RPM!

[BadAssPerformance]

Try it and let us know :thumb:

[Pat]

Its different if it hooks

Just for reference, you can see in this video I hooked pretty well. This was a 1.71 ST, I came off the clutch at probably a bit below 5k on 24.5" slicks. You can hear how I time the nitrous hit. I get the car lurching forward a bit but before it motor drops below 4k or so, I hit the button and it zings up. I find it's pretty easy on the drivetrain. The same ST with that tall of a slicks without spray needs a launch of about 6k with this car.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbujy5-eeYE

Nice burnout box for a FWD car too, eh? LOL!




I don't think you are going to hurt anything running a small shot with the clutch pushed in on a 2 step. Its just going to be like you are leaving with more boost but same RPM!

Possibly, but I don't think you need the 2 step if you're going to spray in 1st. You don't need to build boost before coming off the clutch if you have immediate power at the hit of the button. Boost and spray off the line would just mean a more voilent launch which will probably mean tirespin.

[contraption22]

Arming swtich, WOT switch and a switch on the shifter is how I've done it on the ScAries. I can leave at less rpm, get the clutch out or at least part of the way out with less rpm, hit the switch on the shifter and off she flies. Last time out, this was netting me high 1.6's, low 1.7's.

This has been helpful for me since I'm not running a cal with a 2 step, so I'm not leaving with boost. Without spray, I can net the same ST's, but I have to leave much harder to do it, which with my 140k mile tbi axles, I'd prefer not to do. :-)

Sweet! Glad to see the theory has been TM tested! It certainly has helped my automatic trans live.

[BadAssPerformance]

Just for reference, you can see in this video I hooked pretty well. This was a 1.71 ST, I came off the clutch at probably a bit below 5k on 24.5" slicks. You can hear how I time the nitrous hit. I get the car lurching forward a bit but before it motor drops below 4k or so, I hit the button and it zings up. I find it's pretty easy on the drivetrain. The same ST with that tall of a slicks without spray needs a launch of about 6k with this car.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbujy5-eeYE

Nice burnout box for a FWD car too, eh? LOL!

I have seen some ghettoazz tracks, but damn... LOL

Nice work! What size shot? What did the car weigh then?

Yeah, the magic is in hooking...

[Pat]

I have seen some ghettoazz tracks, but damn... LOL

Nice work! What size shot? What did the car weigh then?

Yeah, the magic is in hooking...

You should have seen that track years back....it was way worse! It actually closed for about 5 years, then reopened in '09. As ghetto as it is, it's a very fun place to go!

That run was a 50 shot, race weight would have been about 2330 with me in it. The hook is the key, but I've found that as long as the slicks are starting to hook or are hooked when you hit the button, they do spin but it still drags you through pretty well. I'm sure in a car making a ton more power it would be different (this motor is very mild), but I'd bet it would still work fine, particuarly with a car that needs some time to get a huge turbo spooled. The nitrous makes up for the lack of boost off the line quite nicely, even with a stick car.

[Nemesismachine]

75-80! F Yeah! I live less than 5 minutes from there. That track was horrible. Up to about 100 feet it was lumpy as all hell. It was a good thing they closed it, nobody should have had to race on that grandfathered in a track.

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, you don't have to explain to me how the juice helps the bog :thumb: lol... Yeah, you got a good combo.. it may be different for a motor that spins to redline as soon as it makes boost w/o the hit

[turbovanman²]

I have seen some ghettoazz tracks, but damn... LOL


LOL, love the hill right after the 1/4 mile sign, :nod:

[Nemesismachine]

There's a cornfield just over that hill. On a good night, I can hear the burnouts and announcer from my porch.

When were these filmed? Can't believe I would have missed this.

[Pat]

There's a cornfield just over that hill. On a good night, I can hear the burnouts and announcer from my porch.

When were these filmed? Can't believe I would have missed this.

Just a few months ago at the Mopar day there. June or July.

[Ondonti]

Possibly, but I don't think you need the 2 step if you're going to spray in 1st. You don't need to build boost before coming off the clutch if you have immediate power at the hit of the button. Boost and spray off the line would just mean a more voilent launch which will probably mean tirespin.

Not sure how some chaps here are equating "like" which is a comparison word, to "is the same as"
2 steps are mainly meant to make launches consistent, not break parts. Change the 2 step or its your own fault. Purposely attempting to make your launch less consistent (no more 2 step) then it was before would make little sense. Even in heads up racing you want to be consistent.

I was being gentle about it but I will just state that hitting a small hot on a 2 step is not going to hurt anything. If your 2 step can't pull enough timing or fuel to control rpm, that would be the issue. If you decide to sit on the 2 step for longer then just the yellow, your fault again. I know most people here are also too scared to hit nitrous on an auto to flash a tight converter BEFORE green but oh well, tricks of the trade. That can boom boom your motor but the guys who blow are the ones who are limited to a single stage (300 shots on 3L motors at low rpm) so they have to run it all from start to finish to win the race.

People here who take the idea of nitrous and add it to the same launch rpm or loose converter ruin the logic of using it with a turbo setup. Just because someone says the word spray also does not mean they intend to use it inappropriately.
Nitrous is what Simon needs to be using on his loose converter but even when fast guys use it he still won't, as if any of us really care.

And the real answer to this drivetrain shock is exactly what I told Shadow to do. Hopefully I am not the first one to run a staging brake. There are good ways, and there is the best way. Everyone else runs one (FWD, RWD, AWD manual transmissions) and we are still running around in circles or bandaiding the problem.

[Pat]

Not sure how some chaps here are equating "like" which is a comparison word, to "is the same as"
2 steps are mainly meant to make launches consistent, not break parts. Change the 2 step or its your own fault. Purposely attempting to make your launch less consistent (no more 2 step) then it was before would make little sense. Even in heads up racing you want to be consistent.

.

I didn't say a 2 step would break parts. I said a 2 step + spray was likely not necessary.

As for consistency, sure, a 2 step will make you more consistent if you're not able to be consistent without one. :-)

[rx2mazda]

Brent, have you ever flashed a converter with a hit of nitrous? Used nitrous on a 2-step? Ran a staging brake with great success(consistent 1.6-1.7's)?

[Aries_Turbo]

I didn't say a 2 step would break parts.

tons of 2nd gear burnouts off the 2 step in a kcar breaks parts..... :)

Brian

[Shadow]

Tons of 2nd gear burnouts with 26" slick with No 2 step, right off the 7400rpm limiter Doesn't ;) (knock on wood)

[Shadow]

And the real answer to this drivetrain shock is exactly what I told Shadow to do. Hopefully I am not the first one to run a staging brake.

FYI I Am running a staging brake, although I've only been using it for burnouts so far. Not to sure what I think of it. My brakes have a spongy feel to them that I don't like and I'm 95% sure it's the staging brake reservoir that does this, but it could also be the stock front brakes and rubber lines vs the Wilwood rears and stainless lines so I need to figure that out before rendering a verdict.

I Do like the brake for burnouts though. It holds much better than my old ebrake use to and releases 100% (old ebrake use to drag a bit) But I could acomplish the same thing with line-locks.

This is what I'm weighing, if the staging brake makes my brakes feel like sh!t then why not just run rear line-locks? What's the diff wether I drop the handle on the brake or release the button on the locks? (makes me wonder what the big deal about staging brake is in the first place)

[turboshad]

Isn't the purpose of a staging brake to load the drive train on a launch? Sure it doubles for burnouts but that's not what I saw as it's main purpose. My fear on a staging brake and loading things up with a 5 speed is clutch wear and/or glazing.

[Pat]

. My fear on a staging brake and loading things up with a 5 speed is clutch wear and/or glazing.

^^^^^ this ^^^^^

At this point, we don't have the clutches that can handle a staging brake.

[BadAssPerformance]

Brent, have you ever flashed a converter with a hit of nitrous? Used nitrous on a 2-step? Ran a staging brake with great success(consistent 1.6-1.7's)?

Good questions...

[Shadow]

Isn't the purpose of a staging brake to load the drive train on a launch? Sure it doubles for burnouts but that's not what I saw as it's main purpose. My fear on a staging brake and loading things up with a 5 speed is clutch wear and/or glazing.

Exactly why I'm not going to use it until necc. Car hasn't gone through axles like I thought it would with the solid hub, so until there is a need it will wait patiently on the BB.

I do like the fact that it's there if needed, specially when I have the twin disc ready to go.

[Aries_Turbo]

Tons of 2nd gear burnouts with 26" slick with No 2 step, right off the 7400rpm limiter Doesn't ;) (knock on wood)

i have a 2 pinion open diff still. it was pretty fragged when i took it out and there is something else in the trans (91 523) that let loose though i havent taken it apart yet.

im putting in a mint 93 523 and not killing it.

i also have a 568 sitting there though i hope to run a 41te next.

Brian

[Shadow]

i have a 2 pinion open diff still. it was pretty fragged when i took it out and there is something else in the trans (91 523) that let loose though i havent taken it apart yet.

im putting in a mint 93 523 and not killing it.

i also have a 568 sitting there though i hope to run a 41te next.

Brian

I've only run the 26's with this 568 and quaife, don't know how much I would trust an open diff. Although, I ran the 24's with a 555 and with a 555 Hybrid for 1/2 season (no quaife) and no problems.

[turbovanman²]

Nitrous is what Simon needs to be using on his loose converter but even when fast guys use it he still won't, as if any of us really care.




I don't want to run :nx: its just one more thing to add to the cost etc and then where would I put it?

I can build boost, so I am fine.

[85glht]

I don't want to run :nx: its just one more thing to add to the cost etc and then where would I put it?

I can build boost, so I am fine.

I can understand the cost issue.... But if you had it and used it, you would see how much fun it is. :)

[Reeves]

Are you at WOT when on the 2-step?

Yes.


Stab bar = stabilizer bar = sway bar, LOL...

Wow, that seems heavy for no stab bar? Did you reinforce it at all? I'll have to weigh the 89 Daytona k-member I have here, it feels light

Do eeeeet! :thumb: Oh, an dif you used 1/4" x 4" i have material that I never got to LOL...

Yeah, not asure how to "launch" a stick on the juice... Years and years ago when I squirted the Z to low 13's I was able to use it once it hooked in 1st... in 05/06 when I tried to squirt it again, I could only use it in 3 and 4 as a tap of the button and it would spin to redline in 2nd... BUT, that was a decent sized pill ;)

Oh yeah....stabilizer bar, stab bar, sway bar.....DOH! And yes, the old K-frame had a few gussets added and fully seam welded....but I don't think it really added THAT much weight....maybe 4 or 5 lbs tops?



Would be nice to find out it was just the bolts and not another trans case. Reeves, you know what grade those bolts were?

It was NOT the bolts :thumb: and NOT the clutch :thumb: Although, I'll be building another trans soon :mad: The bolts are grade ASTM F835.


I was being gentle about it but I will just state that hitting a small shot on a 2 step is not going to hurt anything. If your 2 step can't pull enough timing or fuel to control rpm, that would be the issue.

My concern is that the LM 2-step is a fuel cut type. So we are cutting fuel via the injectors to control RPM, but we would be feeding nitrous and FUEL to the mix....which would result in a VERY lean situation in my mind. Not good.

I've never seen a 2 step pull timing. Explain?

Most aftermarket 2 steps are spark cutting types. I'm not sure that this would be good with nitrous either.


If you decide to sit on the 2 step for longer then just the yellow, your fault again.

I leave on the first glimpse of yellow.....so the nitrous would have to be on before the yellow (Heads Up/Pro Tree).



Hopefully I am not the first one to run a staging brake.

You're not.



I got the trans out last night. Here's the pics:

[onerippinturbo2]

wow, nice carnage. sorry to hear about the loss of another 555 though.

[BadAssPerformance]

Ouch! :(

[Shadow]

Damn, think the 3:05 FD is what's giving the case grief?

Where did you get the nice TOB from?

[BadAssPerformance]

+1, didn't notice the TO bearing at first... looks like the old style not the cheaper newer ones with the piano wire and plastic inner race...