Advice: Complete 3" Exhaust for 87 Shelby Charger, 525 Trans

[ohlarikd]

So my 87 Shelby Charger with the stock 525 trans is in need of a new exhaust system. Really, I need a catalytic converter to pass emissions, but then that led to.. if you replace this, then you might as well get that, and that, etc. etc. Next thing you know I want a 3" SV, downpipe, cat, and muffler.

I have spoken with a lot of people but I haven't gotten a clear answer on what to purchase. The biggest thing I hear is that most 3" systems may interfere with the shifter/linkage on a 525 trans. I am not going to replace my trans as mine has a nice LSD in it. Some say a special downpipe is needed that is no longer produced.

There are two 3" SV's that I know of - one from Turbos Unleashed, and one from Shadow (board member). TU's is stock shape. Shadow's is longer and may offset the downpipe enough to clear linkage, but apparently, no one has tried it.

All I want to do is buy the correct parts and be done with it. I need to solve this shifter clearance issue. Has ANYONE put on a 3" system on a SC with 525 trans that had success and can offer advice?

THANKS!

Derek

[1984rampage]

Im pretty sure any competent exhaust man could install a 3" exhaust with no problems at all.. I know 3" has been done many times before on a shelby charger so it shouldn't be too hard.

Also I'd go with shadow's 3" swingvalve. It will give you better power and flow over TU's.

Finally: http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=53_54&products_id=109

Directly from the TU website: "It clears all shift linkages including L-body."

[minigts]

I have a 3" exhaust, all the way back on my car, no issues with the linkage.

EDIT: To answer you last question, yes. :)

[ohlarikd]

Im pretty sure any competent exhaust man could install a 3" exhaust with no problems at all.. I know 3" has been done many times before on a shelby charger so it shouldn't be too hard.

Also I'd go with shadow's 3" swingvalve. It will give you better power and flow over TU's.

Finally: http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=53_54&products_id=109

Directly from the TU website: "It clears all shift linkages including L-body."

Yes, I am waiting on Shadow to complete another one. I have all winter.

I talked to Chris at TU, and he was unsure for some reason about the 525 trans. He sure didn't give me a great feeling about it. His first response was why don't I replace the trans with a newer one?

Anyway - does it seem like I would buy all the exhaust parts and just go to a shop to have them tweak it and weld it up? I was looking to do it myself, but I think I may run into issues.

Derek

[ohlarikd]

I have a 3" exhaust, all the way back on my car, no issues with the linkage.

EDIT: To answer you last question, yes. :)

Did you install it yourself, or did you have to get a shop to massage it to fit in there? Did you buy the 3" kit from TU?

Thanks!

[minigts]

We had to use some axle grease to wedge everything in there, but it worked...eventually. Just kidding. No issues, plenty of room.

[ohlarikd]

We had to use some axle grease to wedge everything in there, but it worked...eventually. Just kidding. No issues, plenty of room.

You're scaring me.... so, you took all the parts to an exhaust shop, or you did it yourself? I am just trying to determine if I should take it all apart in my garage and try it.

The other issue with a shop is that they would have to install the swingvalve as well, not sure if that is in their knowledge base.

[ohlarikd]

Im pretty sure any competent exhaust man could install a 3" exhaust with no problems at all.. I know 3" has been done many times before on a shelby charger so it shouldn't be too hard.

Also I'd go with shadow's 3" swingvalve. It will give you better power and flow over TU's.

Finally: http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=53_54&products_id=109

Directly from the TU website: "It clears all shift linkages including L-body."

Woops - just noticed your link was for a downpipe. Chris never mentioned this to me. Now if I go with Shadow's SV, I assume this may not work?

[minigts]

We did it ourselves and I would hardly recommend taking a car to a shop to anything with mine, maybe the exhaust. The only issue I had was I had to cut the exhaust while on the car because it went over the rear axle. Now i have it dumping out the side, so when I ever need to pull it down, I can drop the entire thing from the swingvalve to the exhaust tip.

It's not as hard as it seems, you just need to get under there and start taking it apart and putting the next stuff on. The swingvalve was the hardest thing to deal with. If you get a newer one from Chris, it'll be an easy swap. :)

[ohlarikd]

Also I'd go with shadow's 3" swingvalve. It will give you better power and flow over TU's.

Finally: http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=53_54&products_id=109

Directly from the TU website: "It clears all shift linkages including L-body."


Ok, just talked to Chris. Although he has no experience personally installing this DP, he says he has sold them to 525 owners and no one ever called him back with clearance issues. His 3" SV will be available within weeks, so I may order the 'combo kit' 3" SV and Diogo Downpipe:
http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=138

I know Shadow's SV may flow slightly better, but the odd shape of it has me thinking some custom work may need to be done on the pipes since it will place them differently, shifted towards the passenger side I heard.

Yea or Nea on the TU combo kit? Going once...


Derek

[1984rampage]

Yea if your worried about any customization just go with TU's swingvalve and downpipe combo and Tu's 3" catback l-body exhaust. You should be able to do it all yourself. I had my exhaust put on by a local exhaust shop and they did a pretty good job.

It's all up to you really

[ohlarikd]

Yea if your worried about any customization just go with TU's swingvalve and downpipe combo and Tu's 3" catback l-body exhaust. You should be able to do it all yourself. I had my exhaust put on by a local exhaust shop and they did a pretty good job.

It's all up to you really

Yes, spoke to Chris yet again... your picks are correct. combo + catback, add in Cat and muffler. I am not looking for any custom work at this point in my life, so if I can use the clamps he sells and get it done that would be great. I am going to get a piece of 3" straight pipe as well to drop the cat after inspection.

Ok - thanks for all the advice, I think I am clear now!

Derek

[turbovanman²]

All exhaust work is custom, no 2 cars are the same so please, be aware it won't bolt on exactly as you think it will. It will still require some tweaking or modding, ;)

[ohlarikd]

All exhaust work is custom, no 2 cars are the same so please, be aware it won't bolt on exactly as you think it will. It will still require some tweaking or modding, ;)

So I hear... I know. I expect to be disappointed. But if I can get the best starting point possible, that would be good.

This is how it will go:

1) Remove bolts from 2.25" Swingvalve.
2) Remove entire turbo to get sheared off SV bolt removed by machine shop.

Derek

[4 l-bodies]

Derek,
The quasi downpipe as Cindy calls it has the necessary bends for the 525 rod shifter. It is more than just the downpipe, it continues on well past the shifter & ends about where the cat would end. Sells for $99 last I knew. It is aluminized steel and not stainless. Putting on a 3" donut end should be easy for any muffler shop. I do not believe the other downpipes are anywhere near this long. Most are probably half that length and may end before the shifter bends.

If you decide to go a full 3" all the way back, good luck finding one in 304 stainless. I am not aware of anyone selling a 3" full stainless kit for the L-body anymore. As a result, I weld my own up.:mad:

Your cat back FM 2.5 exhaust is 304 stainless. You should be able to sell that easily on this forum should you choose to do so. I would even be interested in buying back that cat back system for my maroon Omni should you choose to go full 3".

Be aware that the 3" exhaust will be louder than your current 2.5" system, unless you go with a chambered muffler.:yuck: Putting in a test pipe will require the installation of a 4 channel amp to drown out the exhaust if using a straight thru muffler.:D
Todd

[johnl]

What Todd said. You have to throw a near 180* kink into the run after the downpipe to clear the 525 shifter. Not a big deal if you have some bends and a welder.

[ohlarikd]

Derek,
The quasi downpipe as Cindy calls it has the necessary bends for the 525 rod shifter. It is more than just the downpipe, it continues on well past the shifter & ends about where the cat would end. Sells for $99 last I knew. It is aluminized steel and not stainless. Putting on a 3" donut end should be easy for any muffler shop. I do not believe the other downpipes are anywhere near this long. Most are probably half that length and may end before the shifter bends.

If you decide to go a full 3" all the way back, good luck finding one in 304 stainless. I am not aware of anyone selling a 3" full stainless kit for the L-body anymore. As a result, I weld my own up.:mad:

Your cat back FM 2.5 exhaust is 304 stainless. You should be able to sell that easily on this forum should you choose to do so. I would even be interested in buying back that cat back system for my maroon Omni should you choose to go full 3".

Be aware that the 3" exhaust will be louder than your current 2.5" system, unless you go with a chambered muffler.:yuck: Putting in a test pipe will require the installation of a 4 channel amp to drown out the exhaust if using a straight thru muffler.:D
Todd

Arrg. I am so confused. This works, this doesn't work... but I will call Cindy tomorrow. Hopefully Cindy's downpipe will fit to the TU 3" SV? Then I need to graft on the 3" Cat and then the TU 3" Catback? Will that work?

Derek

[1984rampage]

Just go with the full TU setup.. It was all designed to work together

[Chris W]

I can't say that I have ever bought an FWD downpipe, but, going off their description it is 2" longer then ours. From the photo it appears to be the same. :shrug: We offer Rick Diogo's design because we were told that it was made to clear the 525 linkage. Since all of our 3" exhausted L-Bodys have been converted to cable linkage I can't say first hand that there would be no massaging necessary. We have sold many kits though to L-Body owners with 525 transmissions and I don't recall hearing about any fitment issues. If you do experience any installation problems we will gladly take it back.

Chris-TU

[Marcus86GLHS]

Derek don't sweat the 525 and 3" exhaust combo, any competent muffler shop can easily fab up an intermediate pipe to snake around the linkages & bridge the gap betwen the downpipe and the "S" pipe (the pipe that would go right behind the cat and snake the exhaust from right to left). I have a TU 3" downpipe and a FWD Perf 3" L-body catback (Chris didnt offer the 3" catback for L-bodies a few years back) and my muffler guy just fabed up a small section to go around the shifter linkages since the TU downpipe did end just shy of the shifter area.

On a cream puff car like yours, aluminized steel is fine, it'll last 30 years on your car.

As others have noted, these are not true bolt-up systems, you will need to tweak here and there, very easy for a muffler shop to do. Oh, and well worth the $ and effort for the power gains.

[Marcus86GLHS]

Derek don't sweat the 525 and 3" exhaust combo, any competent muffler shop can easily fab up an intermediate pipe to snake around the linkages & bridge the gap betwen the downpipe and the "S" pipe (the pipe that would go right behind the cat and snake the exhaust from right to left). I have a TU 3" downpipe and a FWD Perf 3" L-body catback (Chris didnt offer the 3" catback for L-bodies a few years back) and my muffler guy just fabed up a small section to go around the shifter linkages since the TU downpipe did end just shy of the shifter area.

On a cream puff car like yours, aluminized steel is fine, it'll last 30 years on your car.

As others have noted, these are not true bolt-up systems, you will need to tweak here and there, very easy for a muffler shop to do. Oh, and well worth the $ and effort for the power gains.

[ohlarikd]

I guess my concern with the muffler shop is the SV. I assume I will need to put the SV on myself, but then I have no exhaust and I will have to get it towed to the shop?? Not sure about the logistics.

I have the rod linkage and have NO plan to change that. But if I go to a shop, I guess either DP can be made to work. I think... maybe. Uhg.

Derek

[Marcus86GLHS]

Derek I would recommend you do the s.v. swap yourself, or w/ your mechanic....theres a good probability you will have to remove the head since in many cases one or more of the sv bolts wont cooperate and the L-body doesnt have a lot of room for repairs to that area. so, plan on removing the head/turbo assembly, once the assembly is on the bench its a breeze to swap. I dare say most muffler shops are not going to be able to handle a sv swap on a shelby charger even if those bolts cooperate.

then bolt on the down pipe and drive to the muffler shop and have them finish it off. thats what a lot of us end up doing. piece of cake Derek.

[ohlarikd]

Derek I would recommend you do the s.v. swap yourself, or w/ your mechanic....theres a good probability you will have to remove the head since in many cases one or more of the sv bolts wont cooperate and the L-body doesnt have a lot of room for repairs to that area. so, plan on removing the head/turbo assembly, once the assembly is on the bench its a breeze to swap. I dare say most muffler shops are not going to be able to handle a sv swap on a shelby charger even if those bolts cooperate.

then bolt on the down pipe and drive to the muffler shop and have them finish it off. thats what a lot of us end up doing. piece of cake Derek.

Yes, I was thinking I could drive with just a downpipe if its not too far, and just be easy on the gas to not make too much noise. I do not expect or trust a mechanic to do the SV swap - mostly because I do not know a single mechanic. I am going to try to remove the bolts with an impact wrench after dousing them overnight in WD40. If the bolt breaks, then I will cross that bridge when I get there. I have no idea how to remove the head/turbo assembly, but I know that it is done quite often here, so I will have to make a new post then.

I don't even know a good 'muffler' shop - I guess I should avoid the Midas type places?

Sorry, I usually work on motorcycles, and I do that all myself. A heck of a lot easier to work on of course :)

Derek

[Chad T]

Oh there's plenty of room under there for 3" exhaust. ;) Piece with the wideband o2 sensor had to be made at the muffler shop.

http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/gallery2/d/84798-1/exhaust4.JPG

It's real tight around the gas tank/axle.

http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/gallery2/d/84802-1/exhaust5.JPG

Was even able to fit a 5X8X18 Magnaflow muffler under there.

http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/gallery2/d/84806-1/exhaust6.JPG

These spun Magnaflow cats from Jegs are a great deal at $77 and perfect for an l-body.

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/600/642/642-54955.jpg

3" swingvalve install can be a bear. You'll know a lot about turbo dodges when you're done if you do it yourself though.

I wouldn't count on buying all the parts and just clamping them together. There is a little tweaking involved to get everything to fit. Find a competent muffler guy. I think I paid $150 to get my TU exhaust and Magnaflow cat/muffler installed. You have to put a cat on if you have a shop do it though. They won't weld it up without a cat. I also have the TU 3" swingvalve+downpipe. Not sure if my downpipe is the same as the newer one though.

[ohlarikd]

Oh there's plenty of room under there for 3" exhaust. ;) Piece with the wideband o2 sensor had to be made at the muffler shop.

http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/gallery2/d/84798-1/exhaust4.JPG

It's real tight around the gas tank/axle.

http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/gallery2/d/84802-1/exhaust5.JPG

Was even able to fit a 5X8X18 Magnaflow muffler under there.


These spun Magnaflow cats from Jegs are a great deal at $77 and perfect for an l-body.

3" swingvalve install can be a bear. You'll know a lot about turbo dodges when you're done if you do it yourself though.

I wouldn't count on buying all the parts and just clamping them together. There is a little tweaking involved to get everything to fit. Find a competent muffler guy. I think I paid $150 to get my TU exhaust and Magnaflow cat/muffler installed. You have to put a cat on if you have a shop do it though. They won't weld it up without a cat. I also have the TU 3" swingvalve+downpipe. Not sure if my downpipe is the same as the newer one though.

Ok, so it looks like I should plan on a muffler shop to piece together the downpipe-to-cat-to-S Pipe-to Muffler. I think I can use all TU parts since the DP stops short of the shifter and I will need some custom bend around it. I am a little hesitant about the other DP that extends further because it may not fit either - but I am totally not sure.

I am willing to attempt the SV, and prepared mentally for the worst. I still will probably be p!ssed off most of the time, but I will do it - like you said, a learning experience, which is always good.

Is Meineke a possible choice to custom bend/tweak/weld? Or is that asking for incompetence?

Derek

[shelbydave]

Is Meineke a possible choice to custom bend/tweak/weld? Or is that asking for incompetence?

Derek

The latter in most cases. I've made it a point to stay away from any "chain" type place... except for tires.

[minigts]

I guess i need to get under my car and take some pics. We used most of all of the pipe Chris sold me, used a couple of sections of straight pipe from Auto Zone, put the muffler right past the shifter and then used the rest to carry it to the tank and out the side. The Borla muffler we used has an inlet on one side and then in the middle on the other side, worked like a champ. :) But something similar would be easy to do for the SC's.

[Chad T]

Is Meineke a possible choice to custom bend/tweak/weld? Or is that asking for incompetence?

Derek

You never know. As long as the guy has some experience. What I did was research the yellow pages, looked for local shop reviews online and called around. Talked to a guy who sounded like he knew what he was doing and had them do it.

You could call up the Meineke you're considering and ask them if they can install a custom 3" exhaust if you bring them the parts. See what they say. If you're comfortable let them do it.

Lot of chain type places won't install custom parts but I've gotten guys at Midas to do things for me in the past. Reputable, established independant shop would probably be ideal but it's not rocket science.

[4 l-bodies]

Derek,
The thing you need to realize is most muffler shops do not have the ability to make mandrel bent pipes. Always exceptions, but the machine is very expensive and out of reach for the average muffler shop.
If you want it done right buy a 90 or 180 degree mandrel bend and have the parts in hand for whomever is going to do the install. Installing a non mandrel bent exhaust going around the shifter is a waste if the rest of the system is mandrel bent. If you have a chop saw you can make the cuts in the 90/180 bend and find someone to weld it up. Having the downpipe and possibly the cat installed that has cleared the shifter and is aiming straight down the tunnel will be a breeze for any muffler shop. At that point it is basically a cat back install.
BTW- you will never get an impact wrench on the swingvalve bolts while installed on the car. With your original headgasket being 22+ years old, it could further justify removing the head to do the job. I wonder how many TD guys can claim original HG on their TD car?:nod:
It is really not a huge job. With the car on jack stands, a chop saw and someone that could weld the pipes up, you can easily do this install at home. BTW I had success removing my 2.25 swingvalve off my 85 GLHT while on the car. Tougher on the blow through intakes than the old log design.
Todd

[JamesL]

If you haven't given Cindy a call yet, she has her 3in. system on her 87 GLHS Charger. I'm sure she would be willing to send you some pictures. We've installed a few at our shop.

[minigts]

I'm not trying to instigate anything, but it isn't hard. I used most of the kit Chris sold me, bought some stuff at AZ and used a muffler that had the correct inlet/outlet. I did all this in the span of a few hours at a friends house with about 5 minutes of welding for one pipe. The rest fit into place and about a month later DodgeZ (Kevin) came over and did the welding to keep it secure. The "hard" part is knowing someone who has a welder, but if you have everything in place a good shop should be able to weld it all together. Just mark where you want the welds by lining up the pieces and take all the pieces to a shop or wherever. Just be sure to have something to bring it back, as the finished product will obviously be one piece.

[glhs727]

If you are doing a 3" on a a525 l-body, your best bet for the money is the 3" JRB style exhaust kit we sell. It gives you all the pipe mandrel bent from front to back and is made to snake around the shifter. There is no flange, but you can reuse your flange and open to 3" or a good exhaust place can hook you up. For reference here is a picture of the downpipes. The one on the left is the 3" downpipe that both TU and FWD sells. The one on the right is the one in our JRB kit. You can also buy the head pipe seperate for $99 or the whole kit for $200. As you can see the reg dp makes it turns early to go down the tunnel. the Omni head pipe makes the turn after the shifter.
later,
Cindy

[1986GLH]

Cindy, on the short pipe, is that a weld bead just before your hand?

[Chris W]

I'm not trying to instigate anything, but it isn't hard. I used most of the kit Chris sold me, bought some stuff at AZ and used a muffler that had the correct inlet/outlet. I did all this in the span of a few hours at a friends house with about 5 minutes of welding for one pipe. The rest fit into place and about a month later DodgeZ (Kevin) came over and did the welding to keep it secure. The "hard" part is knowing someone who has a welder, but if you have everything in place a good shop should be able to weld it all together. Just mark where you want the welds by lining up the pieces and take all the pieces to a shop or wherever. Just be sure to have something to bring it back, as the finished product will obviously be one piece.

Jon,

Would you have been able to use our Stainless Steel band straps and avoid the welding all together?

Chris-TU

[glhs727]

Cindy, on the short pipe, is that a weld bead just before your hand?

no, that is a shadow from the flange, which was hanging above where we welded on an O2 bung. BTW, I'm not that small, that's my 10 year old daughter holding the pipes...:D sorry the picture is a little blurry....

[minigts]

Jon,

Would you have been able to use our Stainless Steel band straps and avoid the welding all together?

Chris-TU

Well I'm sure you could, but I've never used them before. I'll see if I can get DodgeZ to post a pic. He has one of the exhaust off the car.

[minigts]

Here is a photo of the exhaust off the car. That setup as you see it clears the shifter with about an inch of room. I'll try and get a picture or two tomorrow with it on the car.

[OmniLuvr]

wow, i didnt get away with the straight pipe around the shifter, but i didnt try, i had extra 3" mandrel from my friends old over axle truck exhaust and had my friend weld it. il try to take a pick.

i would be worried about having exhaust off while having it welded, i always fab the exhaust, tack weld it so it doesnt move, then weld exhaust all the way around while its off, ive also used stainless clamps with very good results, gives you some room to moves things around.

ive also done the SW myself on the car, it was pretty tight, even on the rack i was using, but i have short arms. i also broke a sw bolt in the turbo, but i stil intalled the sw with no leaks (just one bolt). you just have to worry about getting that STUPID wastegate arm back on, there is no room at all, and if you dont put that clip back on, your WG arm will fall off for sure, i know.

[ohlarikd]

ive also done the SW myself on the car, it was pretty tight, even on the rack i was using, but i have short arms. i also broke a sw bolt in the turbo, but i stil intalled the sw with no leaks (just one bolt). you just have to worry about getting that STUPID wastegate arm back on, there is no room at all, and if you dont put that clip back on, your WG arm will fall off for sure, i know.

The SV thing has me worried, but I am ready to tackle that, or be tackled. I realize what Todd says now, the SV bolts are on the side, not accessible with a impact gun. I was thinking of the downpipe flange.

So when I attempt this SV operation, without removing the head/turbo, am I just going to end up using a giant breaker bar, or some combo of 12 universal joints and a lot of F words?

I don't have the SV yet, waiting on TU to get the final pieces in. I am patient.

Derek

[minigts]

wow, i didnt get away with the straight pipe around the shifter, but i didnt try, i had extra 3" mandrel from my friends old over axle truck exhaust and had my friend weld it. il try to take a pick.

i would be worried about having exhaust off while having it welded, i always fab the exhaust, tack weld it so it doesnt move, then weld exhaust all the way around while its off, ive also used stainless clamps with very good results, gives you some room to moves things around.

ive also done the SW myself on the car, it was pretty tight, even on the rack i was using, but i have short arms. i also broke a sw bolt in the turbo, but i stil intalled the sw with no leaks (just one bolt). you just have to worry about getting that STUPID wastegate arm back on, there is no room at all, and if you dont put that clip back on, your WG arm will fall off for sure, i know.

Amazingly everything fit fine. The downpipe sits correctly in the SV and the pipe just runs right past the shifter. For the wastegate bracket, we removed the actuator from the turbo, connected it to the SV with the SV disconnected, attached the e-clip and then bolted everything in place. Took a little to get that to happen, but leaving the wastegate attached to the turbo wasn't going to work without a stroke of luck.


The SV thing has me worried, but I am ready to tackle that, or be tackled. I realize what Todd says now, the SV bolts are on the side, not accessible with a impact gun. I was thinking of the downpipe flange.

So when I attempt this SV operation, without removing the head/turbo, am I just going to end up using a giant breaker bar, or some combo of 12 universal joints and a lot of F words?

I don't have the SV yet, waiting on TU to get the final pieces in. I am patient.

Derek

The bolts on the SV should be ok if you use some PB Blaster, let them sit and then try. It's tight right there with the PS pump, but you could get it loosened.

[Marcus86GLHS]

also look for a shop that can TIG weld, as opposed to MIG, makes for nicer welds. use those nice stainless band clamps for the cat, that way you can remove it and swap it for a cheater pipe.

Dereck this is the stuff i got from Chris and Cindy a few years back, all very well made hardware.


http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2531/2381/6326190001_large.jpg


http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2531/2381/6326190004_large.jpg

[JamesL]

SNIP... ive also used stainless clamps with very good results, gives you some room to moves things around.

We sell and I have used these clamps in the past but I think they are more of a band aid then anything. Seems no matter how tight you get them there is always a small exhaust leak.

[Chris W]

We sell and I have used these clamps in the past but I think they are more of a band aid then anything. Seems no matter how tight you get them there is always a small exhaust leak.

Then you are not tightening them enough. You need to use an impact gun or breaker bar in order to get the best seal. These band clamps have been around for a long time and I have had a set on my vehicle for about 10 years. They work extrememly well allowing for easy adjustments should the first fitting have clearance issues once the tires are placed back on the ground. Adjustments are NOT that easy once a system is welded up. Band Clamps FTW :thumb:

Chris-TU

[OmniLuvr]

the fun bolt to get off the SW is the one thats INSIDE the exhaust opening, i think i had to use a quarter inch deep socket to get in there? it was some wierd combo, maybe small socket small extension, i just remember that one sucking. i dont remember using a bunch of extensions at one time, just a different one for each bolt. you want the ratchet as close to the bolt as possible so when you pull on the ratchet it stays square to the bolt, you really dont want to strip those bolts.

if you run into a problem with wastegate actuator, my little technique was to use a cooling system pressure tester, you hook up the hose to the vac port on actuator, pump it up with some pressure, the arm will extend, and it will be a "little" easier to get the arm back on, its better than impossible (i spent 3 hours before i thought of this trick).

[OmniLuvr]

oh ya, this is going to sound bad, but i would do SW at home, if you break bolts, and you have to remove the head, at least its at YOUR house, not a friends or a shop, thats why i had to install my SW with one broken bolt.

[ohlarikd]

oh ya, this is going to sound bad, but i would do SW at home, if you break bolts, and you have to remove the head, at least its at YOUR house, not a friends or a shop, thats why i had to install my SW with one broken bolt.

I am wavering quite a bit on the Swingvalve operation at the moment. I may put that off now and just use a reducer to the 3". I just don't have the time right now to deal with any calamities. The turbo has been on there for like 15 years or more.

My primary reason for all this was to pass inspection with a CAT. It exploded into a nightmare.

[OmniLuvr]

but i really noticed the difference with my 3" SW, my original 2.25" DP broke at the SW, so i was driving around with an OPEN 2.25" SW for a week, when i installed the 3" SW and 3" DP with mandrel tubing out the side, i noticed at LEAST a 300 rpm increase in spool time, and i had to change the settings on my boost controller to keep up with the quicker spooling turbo, were talking 300 rpm increase OVER open 2.25" SW

[ohlarikd]

but i really noticed the difference with my 3" SW, my original 2.25" DP broke at the SW, so i was driving around with an OPEN 2.25" SW for a week, when i installed the 3" SW and 3" DP with mandrel tubing out the side, i noticed at LEAST a 300 rpm increase in spool time, and i had to change the settings on my boost controller to keep up with the quicker spooling turbo, were talking 300 rpm increase OVER open 2.25" SW

I was wondering if spooling would occur lower in the RPM range. Believe me, I WANT the SV, just worried about the snowball situation if/when the bolt breaks... need to contemplate life for a moment...

[JamesL]

Then you are not tightening them enough. You need to use an impact gun or breaker bar in order to get the best seal. These band clamps have been around for a long time and I have had a set on my vehicle for about 10 years. They work extrememly well allowing for easy adjustments should the first fitting have clearance issues once the tires are placed back on the ground. Adjustments are NOT that easy once a system is welded up. Band Clamps FTW :thumb:

Chris-TU

Don't want to hi-jack the OPs thread with a pro/con band clamp discussion. For the most part I agree with you. Yes, they have to be really tight. What is an impact or a breaker bar? LOL... none-the-less, there will be a small leak and if you really look at how they are made, its easy to see why. As for ease of adjustment, your spot on. That's another good reason to make sure once your welded up, its done right. I also like to use vband clamps or flanges when I can. BTW, I'm still looking forward to seeing your car at SDAC one of these years.:thumb:

[168glhs1986]

btw, i'm still looking forward to seeing your car at sdac one of these years.:thumb:

++++1

[4 l-bodies]

I just also remembered you will need to deal with removing the factory EGR assembly if going to a 2.5 or 3" swingvalve. That can also be a B***h sometimes to get off. Then there is the inspection place to deal with as far as the EGR goes too. Do they go that far to look for that stuff in NJ? The car doesn't need the EGR valve since it is now intercooled. If removed, they will never know it was ever there unless looking at emissions decal or looking at their info for that year of vehicle. There is a transfer tube on both sides of the turbo that you will need to remove.
BTW- The factory removed the EGR on all intercooled cars after the 86 GLHS Omni.
Todd

[Chris W]

BTW, I'm still looking forward to seeing your car at SDAC one of these years.:thumb:

At 2000+ miles it's really too far/much to haul. We would rather just bring our products instead. ;)

Chris-TU

[minigts]

Here are pictures of the installed product you big baby. :) This is the TU setup, customized for a side exit exhaust.

[iTurbo]

I have the same system that Marcus posted pics of on my own GLH Turbo. TU 3" S/V and downpipe, FWDP cat-back, except I have no cat and a straight thru Ultraflo muffler. Couldn't be happier with it. Clears everything including the rod shifter and doesn't touch anything under the car. I would have it welded as well.

[thedon809]

I am wavering quite a bit on the Swingvalve operation at the moment. I may put that off now and just use a reducer to the 3". I just don't have the time right now to deal with any calamities. The turbo has been on there for like 15 years or more.

My primary reason for all this was to pass inspection with a CAT. It exploded into a nightmare.I broke every single bolt but the one that is inside the SV on my 86 daytona. This was with the turbo out of the car and me spraying the bolts down with pblaster every day for a week. Hope for the best and plan for the worst.

[iTurbo]

I installed TU 3" S/V on both my SL and GLH while turbo was in the car. Bolts aren't that hard to get to. But yeah, if they're corroded then it's practically impossible. Good luck!

[Vigo]

Hope for the best and plan for the worst.


Yep if you arent willing to pull the head/turbo/motor then dont touch those things in the first place :p

[ohlarikd]

Yep if you arent willing to pull the head/turbo/motor then dont touch those things in the first place :p

I am researching the whole head/turbo removal process and seeing if its something I can do or have the TIME to do. Time is more the issue. I know the bolt will break, so I am not even going to attempt it while its still in the car anymore. Its either take it all out, or don't do it at this point.

Derek

[4 l-bodies]

Derek,
For now you could just remove the downpipe and graft in a 2.5 or 3" cat and bolt it back up to pass inspection. The 2.5" cat would fit better for the time being since the rest of the current system is 2.5" (besides the 2.25" downpipe).
Doesn't really make sense to expand to 3" for the 3" cat, then reduce it for the 2.5" cat-back exhaust.
Your thinking about this too much. When I had the cat fail, I spent like 1 hour on the test pipe from start to finish.:nod:
Todd

[Shadow]

Coming to the party a little late, I just noticed this thread the other night. The S/V's I build will move the regular 3" downpipe (the one everyone sells) to the pass side and give you a pretty straight shot past your shifter linkage. Although, reading through this thread, I'm not sure if your going to be up to the task without help. Keep in mind also, the S/V's I build are more of a race piece for ppl who want to make serious HP. While they will give you gains everywhere and at any level of performance, if your not looking to make some serious power, you may be better off getting the TU 3" and the appropriate pieces to go with it so's to keep things as simple as possible.

[ohlarikd]

Derek,
For now you could just remove the downpipe and graft in a 2.5 or 3" cat and bolt it back up to pass inspection. The 2.5" cat would fit better for the time being since the rest of the current system is 2.5" (besides the 2.25" downpipe).
Doesn't really make sense to expand to 3" for the 3" cat, then reduce it for the 2.5" cat-back exhaust.
Your thinking about this too much. When I had the cat fail, I spent like 1 hour on the test pipe from start to finish.:nod:
Todd

I know I could easily just put a Cat on there, but its about winter in NJ, so there is no rush to get it inspected till spring. So I figure I might replace the whole end to end system while its off the road. If I was in a rush, I would strap in a cat and be done. I am doing nothing till I commit to this swing valve option...

Derek

[Chad T]

I did the TU swingvalve install on my GLHS last winter. Was just starting it about this time of year too. It was a project but I was trying to clean/freshen everything as I went. I broke off 2 swingvalve bolts in the turbo housing, then broke a couple turbo housing bolts getting it off to take it to a machine shop. I was able to get those out with a mapp gas torch (like a propane torch only hotter gas).

Various other broken bolts and rusty brackets. Needed to replace the turbo coolant lines. Only one of them broke but I decided to replace them all. New heater hoses. Also re-did the shift linkage because it's so easy to get to with the head off. Did lots of cleaning for the same reason.

I added some +20 injectors for more fuel. Like I said mine was a project. This was on a sub 50k miles car but from wisconsin. Installed a new roller cam because my machinist noticed the stock one was worn when I took the head in to have some exhaust studs removed. New exhaust studs etc. etc. :o

All that being said. The 3" swingvalve is soo worth the effort. If I floor it while cruising about 45 mph in 3rd it just lights the tires up then they grab and the car shoots forward like a rocket. Not much traction in first or second. Haven't dynoed the car but me butt dyno senses huge gains.:D

[Juggy]

use those nice stainless band clamps for the cat, that way you can remove it and swap it for a cheater pipe.


We sell and I have used these clamps in the past but I think they are more of a band aid then anything. Seems no matter how tight you get them there is always a small exhaust leak.

just noticed these 2 post clashing. Im using the SS band clamps on my complete exhaust. they work great in areas where they will not see any movement, or where weight is being applied.

the one that holds the "cat" :eyebrows: and downpipe 2gether is already trashed in 1 year. the others are still mint. i preferred not 2 weld my exhaust because it comes off at the track.

oh n thanks for the quasi pics! when i change my swingvalve setup that pipe def looks like the winner! does the whole kit run to the rear bumper?

[glhs727]

oh n thanks for the quasi pics! when i change my swingvalve setup that pipe def looks like the winner! does the whole kit run to the rear bumper?

Yes, it is all the pipe to the bumper!

[1966 dart wagon]

All exhaust work is custom, no 2 cars are the same so please, be aware it won't bolt on exactly as you think it will. It will still require some tweaking or modding, ;)

simon is right, i bought tu's 3in combo exhaust, it had to be modified, quite a bit IMO