L-Body Super 60 1/4 Mile Times

[168glhs1986]

Does anyone know what the original Super 60 Package in an L body ran in the 1/4 mile? Was it only something like 12.7?

What was holding it back? 300 hp and 300 lb torque in a 2500 lb car should be running high elevens right?

[BadAssPerformance]

Wasnt there an old magazing artcle on the Omni from Hell?

IIR it was high 12's on radials...

[168glhs1986]

That's what I thought. Wouldn't you think 300/300 in an Omni would get you into the mid-high elevens? Why were the times so high? It couldn't have been all tire related.

Here are my concerns. I spend $5000.00 to get 300 / 300 and I'm only running high 12's? That's foolish when I'm mid 13's now. If I spend $5000.00 I would hope to be in the mid 11's.

[Marcus86GLHS]

300 crank hp and a sorta lousy 60 foot (say 2.0-ish) in an omni might get you say mid 12's as reported......300 wheel hp and a good 60 foot? i agree that's closer to a low 12- high 11. what kind of torque was that Super 60 omni making?

like Dave D's silver '85 GLHT (no weight reduction taken) makes about 350 to the tire, he goes 11.79 no spray.

you're mid 13's now? heck you could spend maybe $500 and get into the 12's yes?

[BadAssPerformance]

A stock GLH-T was 16's tho... so low 16's to high 12's is pretty decent

Slicks can be worth .5 to 1.0 seconds compared to radials. DR's are in between.

Weight makes a huge difference too. A full interior car vs. stripped.... the gutted SDAC-Chicago New Yorker went 12.60's on a completely stock longblock... stock block, head, turbo, manifolds, etc.

[168glhs1986]

300 crank hp and a sorta lousy 60 foot (say 2.0-ish) in an omni might get you say mid 12's as reported......300 wheel hp and a good 60 foot? i agree that's closer to a low 12- high 11. what kind of torque was that Super 60 omni making?

like Dave D's silver '85 GLHT (no weight reduction taken) makes about 350 to the tire, he goes 11.79 no spray.

you're mid 13's now? heck you could spend maybe $500 and get into the 12's yes?

Super 60 was making about 310 torque from what I've read. But that might have been measured at the crank?

Dave D's car, do you have any information on his build?

I've never run my car in the 1/4 mile but I'm 191 hp and 223 torque to the wheels so mid 13's is just a guess at this point.

Yes, I could probably spend $500 on a Stage V computer, afpr, fuel pump and injectors and turn the boost up to 20lbs and get pretty close to high 12's.

But instead I'm spending $4000+ on a head, cam, turbo, fmic, etc... I'm just hoping after spending the 4g that I would be in the high 11's like Dave D.

[contraption22]

A stock GLH-T was 16's tho... so low 16's to high 12's is pretty decent

Slicks can be worth .5 to 1.0 seconds compared to radials. DR's are in between.

Weight makes a huge difference too. A full interior car vs. stripped.... the gutted SDAC-Chicago New Yorker went 12.60's on a completely stock longblock... stock block, head, turbo, manifolds, etc.

Stock GLHT should be mid 15's.

According to Jerry Mallicoat's article about the S60 package that appears in the 2.2/2.5 FWD book, borrowed from Gary D's website.

"Remember our equation at the beginning? Did we accomplish what we set out to do? You bet!!! How does 305 H.P. @ 5900 R.P.M and 314 FT./LBS. of Torque @ 4500 R.P.M. sound. In fact, this engine will make more than 220 FT./LBS. Torque from 2800 to 6300 RPM. We surpassed the production 175 H.P. once we reached 3300 R.P.M. What about on track performance? We took the car to Waterford Raceway when the Shelby Dodge convention was in town this summer. Dave found that his driving style needed modification as proceeded to spin the left front tire off the rim. Not once, but three times!!! And this was at the lower boost setting. Quarter mile times are also mind boggling as the timers registered numbers of 12.56 E.T. @109 M.P.H. on a track not noted for good traction."

Those HP and torque numbers were at the flyweel. Obviously the wheel hp numbers would be lower.

[Marcus86GLHS]

doesnt the 314 tork seem low for that 305 hp figure? i dont know. i've seen 8 valve engines in the 230-240 whp range make over 300 tork to the tires......but still that S60 omni is impressive.

"mind boggling" now seems more like you have to bring an omni doing a full second quicker than that "slow" 12.56, the hobby has come a long way.



Dave D's engine build is extensive, the best of everything, huge ball bearing turbo also. Using an A-555 and his race weight is close to 2,600 pounds. sounds like glhs #168 is headed in same direction.

[Pat]

doesnt the 314 tork seem low for that 305 hp figure? i dont know. i've seen 8 valve engines in the 230-240 whp range make over 300 tork to the tires......but still that S60 omni is impressive.
.


With stock heads and .48 exhaust housings, 240/300 is not unusual for a higher boosted motor. Keep in mind, the S60 package included a turbo, a head and a cam. All of which shifted the curve to the right a bit, which equated to less low end torque and more power at higher rpm.

[168glhs1986]

doesnt the 314 tork seem low for that 305 hp figure? i dont know. i've seen 8 valve engines in the 230-240 whp range make over 300 tork to the tires......but still that S60 omni is impressive.

"mind boggling" now seems more like you have to bring an omni doing a full second quicker than that "slow" 12.56, the hobby has come a long way.



Dave D's engine build is extensive, the best of everything, huge ball bearing turbo also. Using an A-555 and his race weight is close to 2,600 pounds. sounds like glhs #168 is headed in same direction.

Our hobby has come a long way, I was researching 1/4 mile times last night and the fast cars from 10 years ago were running mid 12's.

#168 heading in the same direction...I think so. I have the race bug and my ego doesn't want the Mazda R8's of the world passing me on the straights so I have to get some respect back for the Shelby. Back in 1986 around the race track, I bet the GLHS would keep up and even pass most any other factory car rolling off the showroom floor. But unfortunately 24 years of technology have passed and the GLHS has not kept up with the times, but that will change for #168.

I won't chop it up, promise.:thumb:

[168glhs1986]

Stock GLHT should be mid 15's.

According to Jerry Mallicoat's article about the S60 package that appears in the 2.2/2.5 FWD book, borrowed from Gary D's website.

"Remember our equation at the beginning? Did we accomplish what we set out to do? You bet!!! How does 305 H.P. @ 5900 R.P.M and 314 FT./LBS. of Torque @ 4500 R.P.M. sound. In fact, this engine will make more than 220 FT./LBS. Torque from 2800 to 6300 RPM. We surpassed the production 175 H.P. once we reached 3300 R.P.M. What about on track performance? We took the car to Waterford Raceway when the Shelby Dodge convention was in town this summer. Dave found that his driving style needed modification as proceeded to spin the left front tire off the rim. Not once, but three times!!! And this was at the lower boost setting. Quarter mile times are also mind boggling as the timers registered numbers of 12.56 E.T. @109 M.P.H. on a track not noted for good traction."

Those HP and torque numbers were at the flyweel. Obviously the wheel hp numbers would be lower.

So the super 60 package was good for about 260 brake horsepower and about 266 foot lbs of torque and it costs you about $6 grand to do? Technology has come a long way. They could've used the 3" swing valve, downpipe, etc...some Menegon high flowing heads, a ball bearing turbo, a front mount intercooler, etc...Spend 6 grand today on a stock GLHS and you'd be in the 11's don't you think?

[1984rampage]

So the super 60 package was good for about 260 brake horsepower and about 266 foot lbs of torque and it costs you about $6 grand to do? Technology has come a long way. They could've used the 3" swing valve, downpipe, etc...some Menegon high flowing heads, a ball bearing turbo, a front mount intercooler, etc...Spend 6 grand today on a stock GLHS and you'd be in the 11's don't you think?

I'd hope you'd be in the 11's after spending $6,000 on motor alone...

[Vigo]

Frankly if you already have the stock car you should be able to build a 10 second car for $6k.

I think anyone spending $4k on one of these motors better damn well be shooting for mid 11s or better.

Pat took a car to GRM $2009 challenge that trapped almost 130mph.. thats $2009 INCLUDING the rest of the car.

If you take out all my handling related stuff i built a ~100mph trap car for like $400... would run mid 13s if it was a $700 car (+slicks) :p

[BadAssPerformance]

It depends...

You can spend a bunch of money on fancy stuff that wont make the car faster... turbo timer, EBC, BOV etc.

and engine work that may be needed if the engine is worn out, but wont make more power... bore, hone, shot peen the block, etc.

Depends on how one does it... and how nice the resulting car looks too. One could spend $6k and have a nice looking car that barely runs 11's or only $500 (mostly slicks and sawzall blades) on one with ghetto mods running 11's...

...and dont forget the driver mod

[Vigo]

^^ true that.



the gutted SDAC-Chicago New Yorker went 12.60's on a completely stock longblock... stock block, head, turbo, manifolds, etc.

Wasnt it intercooled @ 12.6? Intercooled log isnt a stock manifold :p

[BadAssPerformance]

Wasnt it intercooled @ 12.6? Intercooled log isnt a stock manifold :p

Stock unported 1 pc intake manifold... it was an '87 'log' car so we brought it up to '88 'blow thru' specs.... so not stock for the exact car. FWIW, it went 13.70's with the log no intercooler.

[4 l-bodies]

That's what I thought. Wouldn't you think 300/300 in an Omni would get you into the mid-high elevens? Why were the times so high? It couldn't have been all tire related.

Here are my concerns. I spend $5000.00 to get 300 / 300 and I'm only running high 12's? That's foolish when I'm mid 13's now. If I spend $5000.00 I would hope to be in the mid 11's.

Here is my 02 cents. Please don't take offense. Seems like you are trying to justify the expense of making your GLHS more powerful. Good luck with that! As many people have stated, You can cut lots of corners if you are building a POS TD that runs low 12's to high 11's. Big turbo, no name Ebay intercooler, race fuel, lots of boost, slicks, and putting the car on a diet is the recipe. This is not to knock anyone's efforts for putting together a low dollar car because of rules, budget, etc.

On the other hand, building a super sanitary car that knocks down 11's on pump fuel, is emissions and state inspection legal, gets 30+ MPG, goes around corners if desired, isn't a one hit wonder, looks good, and is a blast to drive anywhere is a whole different beast & budget.

I don't understand why you are putting so much emphases on ET. That takes a properly set up car, and a driver that knows what he/she is doing. IMO, MPH tells me a whole lot more about the cars potential than it's ET. You state you never have driven your car down the dragstrip, and then imply you would be disappointed with only a 12 second pass after sinking X amount of money into it. You think your car can run mid 13's now. Well all I can say to that is buck up and do it! There is book smart and then there is street smart... l'll bet that first 12 second timeslip will be appreciated for all the hard work that went into achieving it!

Those of us that have done it and frequent dragstrips have all seen the owners of GTS Vipers, ZO6 vettes, Hemi this, BBC that, SC DOHC Stangs, mega dollar imports, and watched in amazement as the owner runs a high 14 second ET. The same can be said for SCCA racing. You can have a superior car on paper, but without the experience to drive, tune, and prep the vehicle, it is what it is.

Todd

[bakes]

Here is my 02 cents. Please don't take offense. Seems like you are trying to justify the expense of making your GLHS more powerful. Good luck with that! As many people have stated, You can cut lots of corners if you are building a POS TD that runs low 12's to high 11's. Big turbo, no name Ebay intercooler, race fuel, lots of boost, slicks, and putting the car on a diet is the recipe. This is not to knock anyone's efforts for putting together a low dollar car because of rules, budget, etc.

On the other hand, building a super sanitary car that knocks down 11's on pump fuel, is emissions and state inspection legal, gets 30+ MPG, goes around corners if desired, isn't a one hit wonder, looks good, and is a blast to drive anywhere is a whole different beast & budget.

I don't understand why you are putting so much emphases on ET. That takes a properly set up car, and a driver that knows what he/she is doing. IMO, MPH tells me a whole lot more about the cars potential than it's ET. You state you never have driven your car down the dragstrip, and then imply you would be disappointed with only a 12 second pass after sinking X amount of money into it. You think your car can run mid 13's now. Well all I can say to that is buck up and do it! There is book smart and then there is street smart... l'll bet that first 12 second timeslip will be appreciated for all the hard work that went into achieving it!

Those of us that have done it and frequent dragstrips have all seen the owners of GTS Vipers, ZO6 vettes, Hemi this, BBC that, SC DOHC Stangs, mega dollar imports, and watched in amazement as the owner runs a high 14 second ET. The same can be said for SCCA racing. You can have a superior car on paper, but without the experience to drive, tune, and prep the vehicle, it is what it is.

Todd

+1 couldn't say it any better

[168glhs1986]

anywhere[/U] is a whole different beast & budget.
Todd

:thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

Well said Todd


Those of us that have done it and frequent dragstrips have all seen the owners of ....SC DOHC Stangs,....., and watched in amazement as the owner runs a high 14 second ET.

and cuz you said this... this was before my stock T2 shadow went 12's but still cracked a Cobrastang :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swy--9XtLug

[Vigo]

You think your car can run mid 13's now

Hehe so true... just like i THOUGHT i was gonna run slicks at GRM, but ended up with mid 14s instead of mid 13s when that didnt happen. Getting a 5spd car to go quick on street tires is NOT easy.

[30 PSI SHADOW]

Yuo have to remember, the omni from hell was on super 60 computer on a lousy 18psi boost. Go make 300 crank HP on 18 pounds,to me that impressive today.the "one off" 4 into 2- 1 header is a work of art. similar to warren stramers header..

last year, barry miles(new owner) went 118mph on 20psi.

[Marcus86GLHS]

Todd made a fantastic point regarding well prepared, quality cars.....cars that can run amazing times, be driven on the street safely and legally, and win a car show trophy all on the same day. I refer to these cars as "The Elite". my favs:

-Dave D's 85 GLHT
-Kevin's Shelby Charger
-Rob's Shelby Charger
-Bill Rampage
-Jonny's 86S #215
-Jame's GLHT

there's others but those come to mind first.

i hope 86S #168 will be added to this list at some point.

[Pat]

Yuo have to remember, the omni from hell was on super 60 computer on a lousy 18psi boost. Go make 300 crank HP on 18 pounds,to me that impressive today.the "one off" 4 into 2- 1 header is a work of art. similar to warren stramers header..

last year, barry miles(new owner) went 118mph on 20psi.

All true, but Barry's car is far from what was originally the S60 package. He's done a ton to that car.