Launching a heavy car on street tires.

[Whorse]

So I'm sure part of my slow 60ft times is due to inexperience, but having a heavy car on street tires with a 5spd can't help.

Short of improving my reaction time, what can I do to improve my 60ft times?

I know most people agree that you don't want any wheel spin, but it almost seems like you need a bit just to know you're right on the edge and not holding back too much.

I can probably improve my heel and toe technique, but I don't think there's too much to be gained there as I seem to be getting off the brake and not losing RPMs.

Any tips would be awesome.

Thanks

[afsautoworx]

Wider, stickier tires. Get a good alignment. Shim swaybar. There are lots of more radical things you can do but isnt your car a daily driver?

[Whorse]

It is, but I don't want it to be a DD forever. However, I do want it to be somewhat enjoyable to drive on the road once in a while, kind of a sporty convertible sunday driver that's pretty quick, but not a race car. I don't mind a stiffer suspension, but I don't want to get into ultra-low pro tires, which are more for cornering anyways, and I don't want to start doing things like the rear anti-drop mod which isn't nice on the street.

I don't want to go all out and get slicks if I can avoid it, and I'm not sure if that's even good for my stock A568 tranny if I do.

Also, what about clutches? Mine's really soft and needs to be fixed. I'm worried that a really sporty clutch will just drop and blow out the tires.

[Chief8one]

i drive a v6 turbo car, its something your going to have to work on. take it easy till you know your not going to spin the tires then floor it. along with sticky wide tires its all about experience.


i win my races after i get 3/4 through 2nd gear, if not after i grab 3rd. Then and only then i can actually floor the car. this is on 7 psi. 3.0l just has too much torque boosted.

[Whorse]

What can 'comfortably' be done to keep weight to the front tires? I'm considering Konis for the back to raise the back when I race. I definitely want a strut tower bar just for street driving. Will that help on the track at all?

As for a wheel alignment, I'll probably wait until after a rebuild, as I'll have it all out then anyways and want ot get it redone.

[GLHSKEN]

Look to a mid 2.2 60' as the best you are going to see on a 5 sp turbo car with normal street tires.

You are right in one of your threads?? about sluggish up top. Where are you shifting? 18 mph on the big end is a bit slow. you should be seeing about a 20mph+ gain with an intercooled car.

That could also be a restriction due to the size of the turbo. VNT's are smaller and it could be outta huff.

[ShelbyZD]

Sticky tires make a world of difference when launching a heavy car. My 89 (mostly stock at the time) had the e-brake jammed on and the front tires still gripped good enough to drag the rear tires/car along. These were Eagle RS-A tires - 240 treadware - 205/55/16.

[Whorse]

18 mph on the big end is a bit slow. you should be seeing about a 20mph+ gain with an intercooled car.

Not quite sure what you mean? I'm shifting around 5500 on my stock tach (not sure how accurate it really is I guess), which is where it feels like it starts to get out of the powerband.

As for the VNT running out of steam, I think it's the stock exhaust, manifold, and head that are making it sluggish as I'm only at 10-12psi.



Sticky tires make a world of difference when launching a heavy car. My 89 (mostly stock at the time) had the e-brake jammed on and the front tires still gripped good enough to drag the rear tires/car along. These were Eagle RS-A tires - 240 treadware - 205/55/16.

Right now I have Falkens, same tire size, and they're not bad, but don't seem good on the street, and wore down in a year (september-february was off the road though). How are the eagle's for treadware, and how much are they cost wise?

[afsautoworx]

Not to insult anyone running the goodyear rs-a's but theyre not the best for straight line. Get somes falken azenis or bfg drag radials, id lean towards the drag radials

[Ground Rat]

Short of improving my reaction time, what can I do to improve my 60ft times?

You probably already know this, but your reaction time will not affect your 60' time or anything else on your timeslip.

A good clutch and stickier tires will help a lot, and so will more seat time.

[ShelbyZD]

Right now I have Falkens, same tire size, and they're not bad, but don't seem good on the street, and wore down in a year (september-february was off the road though). How are the eagle's for treadware, and how much are they cost wise?

Well.. it's basically you either get good treadware of good traction. A lower treadwear = better traction. Higher treadware = better wear. I'd say 260 is about the middle. Stiffer rear springs could help as well. (not sure what you have now) Like they said though.. most of these cars are hard to lauch due to the torque levels. Gus Mahon had that trick where he shimmed his front swaybar.


Not to insult anyone running the goodyear rs-a's but theyre not the best for straight line. Get somes falken azenis or bfg drag radials, id lean towards the drag radials

No offense taken. ;) They are just what was on my Daytona when I got it. They are great for traction on a stock car.

[turbocoupe]

clutch issues becareful with that, cause i put a brand new clutch in mine about 4 months ago and broke it in on easy driving but then last month i fried the crap out of it and that's running on 11psi with a brute series clutch so be aware with that one. and i to have a 88 lebaron turbo j body coupe and i launch my car at 2'800 rpms before boost really hits not to much done to it and my car just takes off like a champ on steroids
i run on z rated tires with a 205/50/r16 and get good launches 8 out of 10
and another good thing to do that helps take of's is suspension cause are cars are kinda heavy are cars sorta bunny hop meaning the front lifts up and making you lose traction but i guess you already know that but just reminding you.

Thanks
Joey

[Whorse]

Well if you've seen any videos of my car, it has more squat than a chihuahua after taco bell, so I have a very soft back end. Looking at some Konis possibly, maybe some Eibachs, maybe something else.

I'm also looking at getting a bunch of polybushings for my mounts, as I noticed they're a bit worn up front.

As for tires, I'd like to get tires that look almost the same, but much softer front and much harder back tires.

[shadow88]

I've learned, before you spend the money, spend the time. I let a buddy drive my car at he track and he pulled a better 60 ft that I did 1st time in the car.

Point is practice, practice, practice.

Here's some mods to mine that I don't feel negatively affected it's street-ability

Cut front springs 1 coil to lower front end, shimmed sway bar. Even out front weight distribution a little but moving battery to pass. side. Did a better alignment than before (kind of a mixture of drag/street), solid bobble strut. The solid bobble strut was a little harsh for everyday driving.

Another thing- you never mentioned your 60 foot time. it MAY not be all that bad.

Treadwear ratings were mentioned earlier and I can't agree more with that person. If you plan on buying drag race only tires, I'd buy slicks.

[Whorse]

Sorry thought I did mention my times in this thread.

My best 1/4 was:
R/T: 1.065
60: 2.514
1/8: 10.098 @ 70.94
1/4: 15.605 @ 88.88

my best 60 ft was a 2.504.

[GLHNSLHT2]

what's your current launch technique???

[Bardo]

rev to 6000 and sid step the clutch :) im sorry i had to say it you need to woek on your take offs my tona was almost stock on shitty tires it went 14.7 at 96 its not much lighter than yours. not enought to maje a full sec

[Whorse]

The 90 GTCs were stock 15.7 in everything I've read. Also keep in mind my clutch is slipping.

Right now I'm working the brake and gas with my right, slipping the clutch and launching at around 4000RPM. Anything higher spins my tires. Once the clutch is all the way out I stomp the gas and go for it.

[GLHNSLHT2]

wtf are you doing on the brake??

[turbo xtc]

What can 'comfortably' be done to keep weight to the front tires? I'm considering Konis for the back to raise the back when I race. I definitely want a strut tower bar just for street driving. Will that help on the track at all?

As for a wheel alignment, I'll probably wait until after a rebuild, as I'll have it all out then anyways and want ot get it redone.I use counterweight for mine but i'm a medium-built guy i have my tool box in the floor board (about 75 lbs)take spare out 225 50 r 15 in front 205 50 r 15 in rear battery is all the way to the right sticks like glue:thumb:

[Whorse]

wtf are you doing on the brake??

Brake boosting so when the green light hits and I take my foot off the brake the power is already at the wheels. In the few tries I did on some back roads I found this much more effective than trying to keep my revvs steady and then slowly slipping in the clutch.

[GLHNSLHT2]

so you're slipping the clutch? got your foot on the brake and hitting the gas at the same time?? Try lowering the rpms and just side stepping the clutch. If they go up in smoke lower your rpms more. No wonder your clutch is slipping. You're heating it up at the line and then trying to get it to hook all the way down the track. The T2/T3 hybrid you're thinking about will not hold up to that abuse. A more aggressive clutch will wear out the flywheel with antics like that too.
Next time at the track try some different techniques. I used to cut 2.2's all day long side stepping the clutch. Then I dropped 11" brakes on and went from 2.2's to 2.3's. But still worlds better than a 2.6. PM me and I'll give you a great technique to try.

[Whorse]

Well the slipping clutch is just from regular wear before I ever went to the track.

The other problem I have with just slipping in the clutch with no brake is that I either spin the wheels or bog down from the RPMs too low.

I'm probably going to replace my clutch before I go back, so that might be interesting on street tires as well.

Thanks for the tips.

EDIT: Here's where I got the idea from.



The Launch with street tires and manual transmission.

The trick with street tires is to SLIGHTLY engage the clutch while having your right heel on the brake to keep the car from rolling , use your toes to bring the rpms up and the trick is to "slip" the clutch for the first couple of feet while balancing off the gas and clutch pedals- its tricky and not that good for clutch life but I did run 13.3 at 108 with my old Daytona using this method.

[iTurbo]

I wouldn't try to brake boost off the line with a 5spd car. You'll smoke the clutch in no time.

What I do is rev the car a few times just before launching. That will wake the turbo up and help avoid the dreaded bog. Then try to launch the car with minimal wheel spin...don't dump the clutch, but ease it out enough that you are right between bogging and frying the tires. I don't floor the gas until I'm well into 2nd gear or right when I shift to 3rd. It takes a lot of practice.

[turbovanman²]

Jason, and you wonder why I like my auto, :thumb:

[Bardo]

Jason, and you wonder why I like my auto, :thumb:
+1
i would love to build the 2.4 swap ans do a 413 (or what ever the number is for that enging) but i cant make it a 4speed auto

[Whorse]

Launching my dad's 3.8L caravan is certainly fun, but as soon as you shift to second the 5spd is worth it. I'll try the advice on not brake boosting and see how it works. Thanks!

[GLHNSLHT2]

iTurbo just about has the best technique down. Gawd I'm gonna love my 2 step rev limiter.