Bent K-frame?

[iTurbo]

I removed all the front suspension and chassis components on my '87 CSX today in order to rebuild it all. I completely disassembled the K-frame and have found that it does not seem very straight. If I sit it flat on the floor, it will only contact three corners at any one time. Seems like one of the front 'legs' is tweaked and I can see some damage on the underside where it looks like a jack was possibly used in the wrong area.

Should a good straight K-frame rest nice and flat on the floor? Seems like it should. It's hard to tell if anything is really wrong until I set it on the floor and it rocks back and forth.:confused:

[2.216VTurbo]

Perfect time to throw a double pivot K frame in there. You WILL feel the difference:amen:

[135sohc]

How much is the one side thats not contacting the ground actually in the air ? As in the factory didnt quite get it perfectly flat maybe ?

The K-frame on my 94 is pretty beefy. You would have to be really stupid to try and bend it.

[iTurbo]

100% agreed. I screwed up the control arms too while removing them; messed up the stub strut threads pounding them out of the K-frame. Even the metal bushing cups that the stub bushings fit into in the K-frame were broken free. I hate the stub-strut crap. The K-frames are flimsy and the bushings are a major pain to deal with. Seems like every time I take one apart I end up with broken ---- everywhere.

Ah well, I have a friend in town that has a '90 Shadow ES and I'm pretty sure I can get all the stuff from him. It has the stamped/double pivot setup and PB.com makes nice bushings for them now. Got some '89 Daytona Shelby knuckles I might throw on so I can have bolt-in hubs and 11" brakes too.

[GLHNSLHT2]

The 89 and later dual pivot kmembers are a lot beefier than the 88 and earlier models. I was suprised at the difference when I had the two side by side. Also the dual pivots don't tweak on the kmember as the suspension moves. So there's less stress in the chassis.

[iTurbo]

How much is the one side thats not contacting the ground actually in the air ? As in the factory didnt quite get it perfectly flat maybe ?

The K-frame on my 94 is pretty beefy. You would have to be really stupid to try and bend it.

I'll have to measure to be sure, but it was close to 1/2".

[iTurbo]

The 89 and later dual pivot kmembers are a lot beefier than the 88 and earlier models. I was suprised at the difference when I had the two side by side. Also the dual pivots don't tweak on the kmember as the suspension moves. So there's less stress in the chassis.

I found the same thing when I upgraded my SL to '91 cast double pivot setup. The newer K-frame was far superior to the '87 K-frame. I do wonder if the cast control arms are maybe heavier and have a negative impact on the handling over the stamped arms, so this time I'm going with the stamped setup especially since I can get the parts easily.

[135sohc]

Cast iron control arm weighs about 1 lb more than the stamped one.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I like the stamped arms over the cast for a # of reasons. They're lighter (even if it's just 1 lb, I haven't weighed them on my doctor's scale). They work with the older spindles and the 11" lightweight spindles. Energy suspension makes bushings for them that are just awesome and very affordable now. All the older big sway bars fit in them, no need to find an R/t for a big bar or pay $200 for an aftermarket bar. They stiff enough for good handling but if you hit something they'll bend before hurting the rest of the car. Just many pluses not to use them.

[135sohc]

Most cast arm cars already have a big swaybar....

[iTurbo]

So with a '90 setup I'm looking at (stamped), can I reuse the CSX original sway bar? I'm pretty sure it's 1" diameter. Am I OK using the '90 K-frame/arms with the '89 Daytona Shelby knuckles ('early' 11" brake setup and bolt-in hubs)?

Now another thing I just thought of is the strut caster angle. When I did the SL many years ago, I used the '91 cast arm setup and it increased the caster angle just a little bit. Not much, but enough to get the front tire pretty close to the fender. Would I have this issue with the stamped setup + '89 Shelby knuckles on the CSX?

Been a while since I've thought about all this stuff!

[GLHNSLHT2]

You're good to go. No changes in geometry, Sway bar is the same shape. Later you can use the bigger 1 1/4" from the Shelby Tona's and Shelby Lancers but I would think your CSX should have the big bar in already.

[2.216VTurbo]

When I did the conversion I used the donor vehicle's sway bar. I recall them being a different shape but I'm getting older and it's been a few years:o

[GLHNSLHT2]

all sway bars from 84 (at least) till 1990 are the same shape other than the 1 1/4" necking down at the ends.

[iTurbo]

Thanks for all the info guys!!

[2.216VTurbo]

all sway bars from 84 (at least) till 1990 are the same shape other than the 1 1/4" necking down at the ends.

L bodies too? So did you really mean *all*;)

[GLHNSLHT2]

Ok, sorry. All Kbased cars. I haven't laid my Lbody bar down on top of the k-car bar yet too see. Maybe this weekend if I get a chance I'll check. Alan you should know that Lbodies are the exception to almost everything :)

[iTurbo]

Had a change of plans. A few days ago I helped my friend part out the '90 Shadow ES. He wanted the '90 K-frame to upgrade his '88 Shadow so I let him take it since it was his old car. I did get the wiring harness and SBEC though..

On top of that I just scored a nice set of knuckles/hubs/caliper brackets from a Spirit R/T on eBay, so I'm going with the '91+cast arm setup. My friend says his uncle owns a small junkyard with a '93 Duster 3.0L/A543 so I'm hoping to get the K-frame and arms off of that.

[Vigo]

I believe 91-up are different, vans are wider, L's are narrower.. so really there's at least 4 types of bar out there, possibly more.. but the vast majority are interchangeable, and they can ALL be made to work with some silly mods.

[iTurbo]

Finally I got a decent K-frame and control arms for my '87 CSX. It's from a '91 Shadow ES and happens to have the 1 1/8" sway bar which is nice because I already have new bar bushings in that size. This one looks to be in pretty good shape other than a little bit of surface rust on the arms. No dings or any signs of impact and it sits flat on the floor! I also got a set of knuckles and caliper adapter brackets from a '91 R/T so the car is getting the bigger front brakes and larger bolt-in hubs as well.

http://www.turbosedan.com/shelbycsx667/DSC04335.JPG

Only problem is that it came from an auto car, so I've gotta get that bracket from polybushings.com and have it welded in. I plan to paint the K-frame and sway bar with POR-15 and powder coat the arms and smaller parts in gloss black.

[turbovanman²]

Looks good, :thumb: Are you going to weld it up to make it stronger and less tinny?


I also got a set of knuckles and caliper adapter brackets from a '91 R/T so the car is getting the bigger front brakes and larger bolt-in hubs as well.

What do you mean larger hubs? The only models that got larger hubs and that's only the actual wheel bolt pattern diameter is the Grand Mini's or Mini's that came with 15" wheels stock. R/T's got 5x100.

[iTurbo]

Looks good, :thumb: Are you going to weld it up to make it stronger and less tinny?



What do you mean larger hubs? The only models that got larger hubs and that's only the actual wheel bolt pattern diameter is the Grand Mini's or Mini's that came with 15" wheels stock. R/T's got 5x100.

Nope, only welding will be the bobble strut bracket. The later K-frames are worlds ahead of the old stub/strut units. It is much better made so I don't think I'll need to have it seam welded and gusseted etc..like I did on my Omni's K-frame.

By larger, I meant the wheel bearings. The bolt-in hubs use a larger wheel bearing than the older knuckles with press-in bearings. Car will still be 5x100 of course.

[turbovanman²]

Nope, only welding will be the bobble strut bracket. The later K-frames are worlds ahead of the old stub/strut units. It is much better made so I don't think I'll need to have it seam welded and gusseted etc..like I did on my Omni's K-frame.

By larger, I meant the wheel bearings. The bolt-in hubs use a larger wheel bearing than the older knuckles with press-in bearings. Car will still be 5x100 of course.

I welded up my 91 K frame, better than the 90 and older but not much. If you dropped the older and newer one unwelded, it went boing, after welding, thud, ;)

Gotcha, just thought you might have messed up the hub size, lol.

I don't think the actual bearings are any different in size though.

[iTurbo]

I haven't measured the two to tell you the truth, but the later ones sure look bigger to me. I got all the parts torn down today. Everything came apart really easy compared to the nightmare I had taking the old stub/strut stuff apart. None of the control arm bolts siezed to the inner sleeves at least. I used the press in our shop to take the old ball joints out and a MAPP torch to burn the original bushings out. Next I'm going to have them blasted before paint and powder coat...I think I'm just going to do everything in gloss black.

http://www.turbosedan.com/shelbycsx667/DSC04337.JPG

I should really start a project log...I'll post new pics there as I progress with this.

[iTurbo]

I welded up my 91 K frame, better than the 90 and older but not much. If you dropped the older and newer one unwelded, it went boing, after welding, thud, ;)

Gotcha, just thought you might have messed up the hub size, lol.

I don't think the actual bearings are any different in size though.

Simon, you got any pics of where you welded your K-frame? On the older style it was easy to see where improvements could be made. The newer one has all the seams fully welded already.

[turbovanman²]

Simon, you got any pics of where you welded your K-frame? On the older style it was easy to see where improvements could be made. The newer one has all the seams fully welded already.

No, sorry, I just made sure all the welds were fully done so to speak. Alot were just partially welded and I also did the rack mounts, they were sad.

[iTurbo]

Yeah, I just looked at the rack mount tabs on the bottom side. Looks like they were only spot welded in. Unfortunately it looks like I can only get to two of them since the other two are inside of the K-frame. I guess I'll just have them weld those tabs in around the edges and have some of the seam welds touched up. I'll have them put a couple spot welds at the base of the new ball joints too for added assurance.