Oil return woe

[t3rse]

First off, does anyone have any bright ideas on how to remove the oil return nipple for the turbo from the block on an SRT mill without using a torch (don't want to mess up the powdercoat)?

I'm running a 2.4 with a 568, meaning the starter is in the back. Car has been running a while with an oil leak I could no pin point. What I did was cut the nipple on the block down until it was 1" long so the starter would fit and then used the stockish silicone coupler which has to bend a little around the starter. The piece got cut on the top which is where the oil was coming from. First time I pulled it I noticed a small cut on the outer layer but the inner layer was fine, but it still had a small drip. This drip turned into a pour over time and now it is cut all the way through about 1/3 of the circumference. I think I tightened the clamp down against the edge of the nipple and that cut it, but regardless the piece is against the starter and having the oil go through could cause it to swell some and would aggravate the issue. So I either need to plug this oil return and have the oil return somewhere else (give me some ideas you folks with 2.4-568 setups) or pull the nipple, cut it down more, and weld a 45* on it to clear the starter (or better yet, see if I can get a 45* fitting to thread in there without hitting the block after tapping the hole).

[t3rse]

Someone (JT or Rich maybe) post pics of where they put the returns in the oil pans please. I bought what I need to convert it to a pan return system and made a slug to weld into the return nipple on the motor as I don't want to take it out of the car so I'll pull the axle and starter and hammer the slug in and buzz it right there.

[Nemesismachine]

Could always try a little eraser size gob of jb weld, save the powdercoat that way.

[t3rse]

There is still 1" of nipple so when I slug it and weld it I'll go slow and it won't mess up the powder coat.

[rbryant]

I think I used a pipe wrench or vice grips and turned the stock tube once it turned it came out no problem...

If you are willing to pull the pan you could also punch it out from the bottom side.

If you look at my KC article on using a 568 with the SRT4 block you can see that I actually drilled out the hole to 11/16 (should be 23/32 but I didn't have that bit) and tapped the block with a 1/2" NPT thread. I then used a steel 45 degree 1/2" to AN-10 fitting and got that to fit under the starter. Make sure you tap really deep or you will have to cut off the first couple of threads on the fitting to get it far enough into the block to clear the starter.

That is a better solution IMO because it keeps the oil return away from the axle which is the big problem with putting it in the pan...

If you drill and tap it you will have to pull the pan though and mask and clean things really well to avoid getting metal shavings in bad places so it is really best done at rebuild time.

-Rich

[t3rse]

The problem is that I'm going to do this in car so fitting a drill back there will be a pain or not possible...though I may be able to drill out from the bottom (which will make it harder to keep clean). I may still end up putting it in the pan and just getting a small conduit clamp and securing the line to where I have my down pipe bracing.

[turboshad]

I welded a fitting into the pan. The problem arises with the axle, and probably using a -16 drain. You have to machine the hose fitting and the piece you weld to the oil pan to get it to clear the axle. The next problem for me came when welding warped the sealing face a bit and now I have an oil leak (JIC ,or AN, fittings are very sensitve to the 37deg face being absolutely ture and clean in order for them to seal). I think next spring I will look at threading a drain into the block so I don't have that problem.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g103/turboshad/93%20Shadow/Assembly/DSC01093.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g103/turboshad/93%20Shadow/Assembly/DSC01089.jpg

[t3rse]

I had planned on adding a 1/2 npt bung to the pan and then using 1/2 to -10 male and a m-m -10 90* after that...hell right now I'd be happy with a minor drip...but I had no intention of welding on the 37* flare bits.

[rbryant]

The problem is that I'm going to do this in car so fitting a drill back there will be a pain or not possible...though I may be able to drill out from the bottom (which will make it harder to keep clean). I may still end up putting it in the pan and just getting a small conduit clamp and securing the line to where I have my down pipe bracing.

It is a tight fit no matter what you do. I had my engine on a stand when I drilled and tapped the hole and I still had a lot of metal bits to clean up.

The 45 degree fitting then BARELY clears the nippondenso starter when screwed all the way in. If anyone follows my method of tapping the block and using the 45 degree fitting Make sure if you tap it that you tap deep enough to sink the fitting so that you get down to the last couple of threads. I didn't tap quite deep enough so I had to cut a couple of threads off from the fitting to get it deeper.

1/2" NPT is supposed to be a 23/32 drill bit which is not very standard. I used an 11/16 drill bit through the hole and then drilled down about 1/8" with a 3/4 drill bit so that I could get it started. Getting it started in the 11/16 hole would be nearly impossible but once it starts it is fine and just makes a deeper thread. There also isn't room for a T handle tap wrench so I used two end wrenches at 90degrees from each other to drive the tap which made getting the threads started somewhat touchy...

Overall if someone is starting a build I would be best to have the machine shop tap the block for you and give them the fitting with instructions to have it tight on the last 2 threads. That way there are no metal shavings to worry about and it will be a nice clean thread with the fitting going deep into the block.

I also recommend a steel fitting for going into the block but it probably doesn't matter.

-Rich

[t3rse]

I've done stuff like this before...just pull the pan and duct tape a trash bag around the crankcase leaving the hole open...use lots of cutting oil for drilling and tapping then blow into a rag...no debris gets around anything important. The only thing I'm nervous about is having to drill from the bottom...I'm pretty sure I won't be able to get a drill in there and from the bottom I'll obviously have to go all the way through.

11/16 is .687 and 23/32 is .718 which explains why you fought so hard with the tap.

[rbryant]

11/16 is .687 and 23/32 is .718 which explains why you fought so hard with the tap.

It wasn't that bad it just doesn't like to start so I just tapered it with a 3/4" at the start for 1/16-1/8" down the hole. It probably could even use a 3/4" bit because it isn't a pressure line but I figured the deeper threads are fine.

I just figured I would mention it so people get the right bit or know what they are dealing with. Either way a tap handle won't fit and you need to tap from the top side because NPT is a tapered thread.

-Rich

[t3rse]

NPT (as you stated) is tapered and NPS is not. If I do manage to get it threaded I will use a steel JIC 37* flare fitting. I'll probably try tomorrow if the weather is decent.

[t3rse]

I can't find even an 11/16" bit locally. Either I'm going to order the 23/32 (for deeper tapping whereas 45/64 is for shallow tapping) or I'm going to end up using the 3/4 bit.

[rbryant]

I can't find even an 11/16" bit locally. Either I'm going to order the 23/32 (for deeper tapping whereas 45/64 is for shallow tapping) or I'm going to end up using the 3/4 bit.

Yea it is a real pain to find odd sized drill bits.

I have a cheap set of big bits from harbor freight... They include the 11/16 and it was normal stock.

I think the whole set was $30 or less and it is handy to have the 9/16 bit for 3/8 NPT tapping aswell.

So you plan to tap from the bottom with an NPS tap? I didn't think of that but of course I only had the NPT tap anyway...

-Rich

[t3rse]

I think I'm going to use an NPT from the top...I can fit a wrench in there for the tap...I just don't think I can fit a whole drill up there.

I went to the hardware store to get a tap (I have one somewhere but I can't find it) and the guy asked me if I wanted a male or female tap...after I had to explain that a tap was for making threads. :banghead:

[rbryant]

I think I'm going to use an NPT from the top...I can fit a wrench in there for the tap...I just don't think I can fit a whole drill up there.

I went to the hardware store to get a tap (I have one somewhere but I can't find it) and the guy asked me if I wanted a male or female tap...after I had to explain that a tap was for making threads. :banghead:

You should go back and ask him for a Male DIE.

A 1/2 NPT TAP is like $25 something from the store isn't it? I got a 3/8" - 1 1/4" NPT TAP kit from Harbor Freight (mail order) a while back which has been handy. Cheap tools are nice for things I rarely use but might need in a pinch.

-Rich

[t3rse]

16$ at Ace hardware...so not too bad.

[t3rse]

Well all I can do is crush the return tube with vise grips. I've almost twisted the top off. It isn't going to pop out on my motor so I'm going to drill it out. Btw: I found a 23/32" bit for 9$ at a harbor freight style place (first time I've ever set foot in there. They even had 3500# trailor axles wide enough for a hummer for 160$ and 16pc tap/die set for 6$. I believe I'll be going back soon.

[rbryant]

Well all I can do is crush the return tube with vise grips. I've almost twisted the top off. It isn't going to pop out on my motor so I'm going to drill it out. Btw: I found a 23/32" bit for 9$ at a harbor freight style place (first time I've ever set foot in there. They even had 3500# trailor axles wide enough for a hummer for 160$ and 16pc tap/die set for 6$. I believe I'll be going back soon.

Try punching it out from the bottom before drilling.

Mine actually came out pretty easy with the vice grips but I had more room and the entire tube was still in tact. When I put the vice grips on mine it crushed the tube in the middle rather than close to the hole so it didn't distort the tube inside of the hole

-Rich

[t3rse]

Well..can't drill from the bottom...can't get the crank out of the way. Tube won't come out: Tried punching...even got it to turn with the vice grips but it won't move upward. I crushed it shut and welded it. Got fed up. I'm going to run the return to the oil pan. I did find out that removing the pan is cake. I don't know if I've posted pics of underneath my motor, but there are two -10 lines that run from the stock SRT oil adapter area on the pan to a remote filter on the rad core support...I had to pop them loose and take off the rear motor mount I made and the pan came right out with no issues at all (which surprised me as I have a lot of crap stuffed in that engine bay).

I did find, while under there, that my lower alternator bolt has vanished :confused:

[t3rse]

So I put a 1/2" NPT bung on the oil pan about where turboshad did and used a 90 galvanized cast fitting to turn up, and then a tube to extend the -10 nipple past the bed plate flange, and then a -10 1/2 ID stainless line to the turbo.

I think this setup may be the better way to go: The stock oil drain dumps oil directly onto the crank shaft, which can't be good for drag. Mine (and turboshad's) dumps into the #1 main cap and the balance shaft housing is still in place for oil control.