Catch it, or Burn it?

[Bossman429]

Well, I'm going to be running a BOV sometime very soon, and with how I am choosing to set it up, I will be putting a K&N on the turbo inlet hose just above the transmission.
I know it's probably been covered many times on turbododge.com, but hey, I need some posts in my post count, and don't want to have to go back and search.
So, what to do with the breather hose that attaches to the air box?
Some people I have heard talk about making some sort of catch can to collect the excess oil that shows up in the air box.
I have also seen on the dodge garage, a setup that lets the turbo intake pull the oil fumes out of the engine and into the intake.
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo/turbo_bov_19.jpg
I feel more confident with the latter of the two options, but am not sure whether the engine will smoke if I have too much blow by running into the intake or not.
Any suggestions, or comments?

[mcsvt]

Good question, I am interested as well.

[altered7151]

I would go with pulling it back into the intake. If you have enough blowby to make your engine smoke then its probably time for a rebuild anyways. Plus the venturi effect of the air rushing past the nipple can help to scavenge crankcase pressure. Oh, and you could do a hybrid of the two, line from pcv to intake with a catchcan plumbed in the middle, that way you get the benefits of both, catchcan to keep oil out of intake, plus scavenging effect:thumb:

[3Bar_Mopar]

I used a breather filter with no PCV valve off the VC and it worked well for awhile, but then the filter got clogged and my cars smoked like crazy.

I decided to run a hose from the VC to a PCV valve and off to the intake manifold. This works better and is maintenence free...no filter to worry about clogging.
You MUST get a stock "turbo" PCV valve that seals perfectly or you will get boost into the VC/crankcase and pop out your dipstick, cam caps or VC gasket.

How many people thought they popped a piston because of a faulty PCV valve and they boosted the cam cover?

[Dave]

I used a breather filter with no PCV valve off the VC and it worked well for awhile, but then the filter got clogged and my cars smoked like crazy.

I decided to run a hose from the VC to a PCV valve and off to the intake manifold. This works better and is maintenence free...no filter to worry about clogging.
You MUST get a stock "turbo" PCV valve that seals perfectly or you will get boost into the VC/crankcase and pop out your dipstick, cam caps or VC gasket.

How many people thought they popped a piston because of a faulty PCV valve and they boosted the cam cover?

haha boosted the came cover. :)

I'm thinking of trying the same thing, but where can I get a catch can???

[mcsvt]

I have seen a couple catch can's on ebay. But I am not sure how many ports I would need... Right now I still have the stock air-box on with the hose going back to there. I went to look at it the other day and noticed it wasn't connected and it was dripping on top the tranny. Connected it back up but haven't had a chance to see if it stayed.

Keep the recommendations coming because I would like to have a better solution then having the oil drip down the tranny then onto the driveway.

[Stratman]

I have seen a couple catch can's on ebay. But I am not sure how many ports I would need... Right now I still have the stock air-box on with the hose going back to there. I went to look at it the other day and noticed it wasn't connected and it was dripping on top the tranny. Connected it back up but haven't had a chance to see if it stayed.

Keep the recommendations coming because I would like to have a better solution then having the oil drip down the tranny then onto the driveway.

I need to integrate a catch can soon. A motor works better if you have a vacuum on the crankcase, so a can with one one side attatched to the valve cover grommet and the other line back into the turbo inlet hose which creates the vacuum needed. All oil will drop to the bottom of the can, although you should have to drain it often to keep it from filling up and sucking back into the intake system.

[BadAssPerformance]

If you plumb the PCV vent into the exhaust at an angle it is supposed to help evacuate the vapors.

Need a cheap catch can? Coke cans work great, lol...

Need less oil in your PCV system? have you fixed the baffle in your valvecover? Click here to see what I'm talking about (http://www.badassperformance.com/mtech/valvecover.html)

[Bossman429]

I have seen a couple catch can's on ebay. But I am not sure how many ports I would need... Right now I still have the stock air-box on with the hose going back to there. I went to look at it the other day and noticed it wasn't connected and it was dripping on top the tranny. Connected it back up but haven't had a chance to see if it stayed.

Keep the recommendations coming because I would like to have a better solution then having the oil drip down the tranny then onto the driveway.
I also notice oil dripping from my air box onto the lower I/C hose. I pulled the airbox apart and noticed that there was no breather filter installed. So I bought one (they're just a cheap piece of foam like on most all FWD Chryslers of the era) and installed it in the box. I haven't looked lately, but I bet that filter is at least doing something to keep the oil from just draining out of the box.

[Stratman]

I also notice oil dripping from my air box onto the lower I/C hose. I pulled the airbox apart and noticed that there was no breather filter installed. So I bought one (they're just a cheap piece of foam like on most all FWD Chryslers of the era) and installed it in the box. I haven't looked lately, but I bet that filter is at least doing something to keep the oil from just draining out of the box.

There's no stopping it! LOL
It only helps a little. If you look at it again you'll see what I mean.:)

[Stratman]

If you plumb the PCV vent into the exhaust at an angle it is supposed to help evacuate the vapors.

Need a cheap catch can? Coke cans work great, lol...

Need less oil in your PCV system? have you fixed the baffle in your valvecover? Click here to see what I'm talking about (http://www.badassperformance.com/mtech/valvecover.html)

Yes, it evacuates the vapors and pulls the vacuum needed, that is why you see this on the big boy dragsters. Too much vacuum on the crankcase and oil seals will be sucked inward.

[mo' parts]

i had my pcv plummed in like the pict in the inital post(but with a catch can). i found that with the fitting on the intake to turbo, pulled very little being on a 90^. that fitting needs to be on an angle just like the exaust style evac.
it worked well other than that, it just needed more suction. i ran the line that use to go to the airbox down to the rad support, where it tied into a catch can with a small breather on top(to help dilute the oil vapors being sucked back in to the turbo, and from creating too much vaccume), then from the other side of the can to the turbo inlet.

[Lee'sdaytona]

so is there any dis-advantage to running the PCV line directly to the intake piping with no catch can? I just rebuilt my engine but the PCV valve is old...maybe if I put a new one on, there would be much less oil and I wouldn't be burning as much?
-Lee

[Bossman429]

OK, you guys running a catch can and breather combo setup, how are you making your catch can?
I was thinking of how you could allow the engine to pull fumes out using vacuum from the intake, but have the oil accumulate somewhere. you would have to have a pressure tight catch can with a reservoir on it.
Then I came across this in Jegs:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=16163&langId=-1

Would something like this work well as a breather catch can? It seems like it would be perfect! run the pipe from the valve cover to one end of the tank, run the other end of the tank to the intake pipe to the turbo. You could even drain it every oil change.
I'm really thinking about on of these, but need some approval from a TM expert or two.

[turbovanman²]

Wow, that would work awesome, its nice and small although I think you would have to drain it every week or 2 weeks. I doubt it will go 3000 miles but still, way cool.

[Duner]

I use a Bugpack breather box on both of my Dakotas.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/948368.jpg

They're only about $30 and work great.

[Bossman429]

Wow, that would work awesome, its nice and small although I think you would have to drain it every week or 2 weeks. I doubt it will go 3000 miles but still, way cool.
:) I guess I forgot to mention that I only get about 1000 miles between 3 month oil changes. LOL. Should work great! Have to get one soon, BOV comes tommorow.:D

[Tony Hanna]

My take on the PCV redesign has always been to lose the "T" and connect the PCV valve straight to the valvecover with a section of hose. I then replace the oil cap with a filtered breather cap. These are available in the chrome section at most all discount parts stores. This has seemed to work well so far other than some oil seeping out of the filter cap after sustained high rpm use. I like this setup because it keeps crankcase pressure to a minimum while under boost and allows fresh air to be drawn through the crankcase to purge it while in vacuume. Also, since it doesn't vent back into the turbo inlet, it eliminates that as a souce of oil ingestion.
HTH,

[turbovanman²]

My take on the PCV redesign has always been to lose the "T" and connect the PCV valve straight to the valvecover with a section of hose. I then replace the oil cap with a filtered breather cap. These are available in the chrome section at most all discount parts stores. This has seemed to work well so far other than some oil seeping out of the filter cap after sustained high rpm use. I like this setup because it keeps crankcase pressure to a minimum while under boost and allows fresh air to be drawn through the crankcase to purge it while in vacuume. Also, since it doesn't vent back into the turbo inlet, it eliminates that as a souce of oil ingestion.
HTH,


Another awesome idea. Do you have a part number for the oil cap?

[Bossman429]

My take on the PCV redesign has always been to lose the "T" and connect the PCV valve straight to the valvecover with a section of hose. I then replace the oil cap with a filtered breather cap. These are available in the chrome section at most all discount parts stores. This has seemed to work well so far other than some oil seeping out of the filter cap after sustained high rpm use. I like this setup because it keeps crankcase pressure to a minimum while under boost and allows fresh air to be drawn through the crankcase to purge it while in vacuume. Also, since it doesn't vent back into the turbo inlet, it eliminates that as a souce of oil ingestion.
HTH,
Very good idea indeed, and it reduces my welding to just the flange onto the upper pipe, thanks!
Would it be entirely neccesary to run a breather oil cap? I would think that using the stock cap would allow oil to accumulate on the valve cover, what little that did come out. I'm probably going to get a breather cap in case, but may need to run the stocker for a couple days or so, don't want to blow anything up.

[Bardo]

i put a pop bottle on mine

[86Shelby]

Why not pull the valve cover and have a breather installed at the end opposite the pcv valve; when eliminating the breather in the airfilter housing? Just another idea to throw into the mix.

[Tony Hanna]

Another awesome idea. Do you have a part number for the oil cap?

Not off the top of my head. The last one I used is on John's Daytona now and the package is long gone. I'll check for the part # the next time I'm at Autozone. It's made by Spectre if that helps. For what it's worth, any of the breather style oil caps should work as long as it will fit the valve cover. When I tried this the first time on my white Daytona a few years ago, I took a spare valve cover in with me to be sure to get one that fit.
When I get ready to redo the pcv on the Sundance, I'm thinking about trying to find a sealed breather cap that has a hose barb instead of just a covered filter. Hopefully that will let me route a hose uphill a bit to let gravity keep the oil in the crankcase where it belongs.:thumb:
HTH,

[Tony Hanna]

Very good idea indeed, and it reduces my welding to just the flange onto the upper pipe, thanks!
Would it be entirely neccesary to run a breather oil cap? I would think that using the stock cap would allow oil to accumulate on the valve cover, what little that did come out. I'm probably going to get a breather cap in case, but may need to run the stocker for a couple days or so, don't want to blow anything up.

The idea behind the breather cap is to allow an easy escape for the excess blowby that plagues most forced induction engines. The other advantage is the draft that's setup across the valvecover when in vacuume helps remove the blowby gasses before they get a chance to condense and contaminate the oil. As for running the stock cap, I don't know how well it would be able to vent, so I'd be a bit concerned about pressurizing the crankcase.
HTH,

[Bossman429]

Well, I got everything plumbed up.:)
Just waiting for UPS to deliver my TiAL BOV.
I put a K&N RU-8040 on the turbo intake pipe above the trans.
I have a 2.5 inch exhaust pipe in between the filter and inlet hose.
I then got rid of the stock air box and put a 2.25 inch pipe in it's place, this is where the BOV will go when I get it.

I followed Tony's advice on the PCV system.
I bought a 1/2 inch 90 degree elbow hose, and cut it to fit, I put a couple small hose clamps on the valve cover and PCVC valve nipple to ensure they stay on.

As for a breather oil cap, I got one at Carquest PN# 36001
It is in no way at all fancy, but after I took the crappy gasket off of it, it fit the valve cover perfect! It looks a little tall, and I think it is touching the asbestos hood mat, but it will do for now. It's kinda hard to find a breather cap with tabs on it to screw into the valve cover, but this one has them, so it isn't going anywhere.:nod:

I might go snap some pics and post em if I get the BOV in time today.:D

[Tony Hanna]

I might go snap some pics and post em if I get the BOV in time today.:D

Post 'em up. :thumb:

[Bossman429]

Well, I have it completely installed, pics tommorow when it's light out again.

I ran vacuum to the BOV by uncapping a vac port on the brake booster distribution thingy, it was close to the valve, and the same size as the nipple on the BOV.

I hear a little compressor surge then a valve release at anything below about 7 PSI. at around 10-16 PSI I get a nice Whooooosh!
Do you guys think this is abnormal? I thought about running the vac line to the vac distribution block I have on the manifold, but the nipple looked smaller than the BOV nipple. I didn't want to fight with different sizes of line.

Other than that everything is fine.

[turbovanman²]

Depends on your BOV, mine is a slightly crushed Talon valve and at low boost and part throttle chops, the comp stutters a bit, at higher boost, it whooshes. No need for concern.

[Tony Hanna]

^^^ +1
Mine wasn't crushed, but I was running a 1g Talon BOV that was modified to hold high boost as described on Gary D's site. It would chatter a little bit when letting off at low boost too. I wouldn't worry about it, but if it bothers you, you might try loosening the spring tension a little if it's adjustable on the tial valve. You'll just have to remember to tighten it back up if you want to run more boost and it starts leaking.
HTH,

[Bossman429]

http://photobucket.com/albums/a348/bossman429/GTS/

PICS! as requested.:D
Sorry about the poor quality, my digicam was really great many years ago, but now shows it's age through poor image quality.

In the first pic you can see my PCV modification, just a 90 degree elbow, but looks almost factory.
The rest is just some underhood shots.
The oil cap can be seen, it works fairly well, but I might get a Moroso one from Jegs since they come in blue to match the BOV.:thumb:

Let me know what ya guys think.

[turbovanman²]

Looks good, I like the blue colour on the BOV, :thumb:

[Tony Hanna]

That turned out nice man! Good work.

[Bossman429]

Just a note for future generations:

That oil breather cap came from Carquest, the part number is listed in my previous post 36001.
The cap comes with a really thick, really crappy paper/cardboard gasket on it in the same fashion as the rubber one is on our factory caps.
I had to remove this paper gasket to get the cap to fit on the valve cover, and screw on as it is supposed to do. After driving it for a few days I pulled that cap and noticed that oil was leaking out of the cap onto the valve cover, I didn't want it leaking all over my otherwise clean engine. So a solution was mandatory.

I took the breather cap into work and pulled out the o ring kit that we have, pretty much a whole bunch of different sized o-rings.
I picked one that fit snug over the base of the breather cap and installed it behind the tabs on the cap. This would be in the same place as the rubber gasket is on our factory caps but is an o-ring instead of a flat gasket.
The o-ring would be about a 1 1/4 inch diameter, as it fits the opening of the valve cover perfectly.

Screwing the cap in the valve cover, it spins on very smooth, and the oil is not leaking out of the cap after a week of driving. Problem solved.

I wanted to do a week of driving to provide enough R&D before posting that it is a viable solution. It does work though.

[turbovanman²]

I did this yesterday-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10196&postcount=31


So far so good, will report back in a few weeks.

I was looking at using the oil cap for the pcv but you would need to build another baffle-I took of the cap at idle and oil is spraying out.

[Tony Hanna]

Just a note for future generations:

That oil breather cap came from Carquest, the part number is listed in my previous post 36001.
The cap comes with a really thick, really crappy paper/cardboard gasket on it in the same fashion as the rubber one is on our factory caps.
I had to remove this paper gasket to get the cap to fit on the valve cover, and screw on as it is supposed to do. After driving it for a few days I pulled that cap and noticed that oil was leaking out of the cap onto the valve cover, I didn't want it leaking all over my otherwise clean engine. So a solution was mandatory.

I took the breather cap into work and pulled out the o ring kit that we have, pretty much a whole bunch of different sized o-rings.
I picked one that fit snug over the base of the breather cap and installed it behind the tabs on the cap. This would be in the same place as the rubber gasket is on our factory caps but is an o-ring instead of a flat gasket.
The o-ring would be about a 1 1/4 inch diameter, as it fits the opening of the valve cover perfectly.

Screwing the cap in the valve cover, it spins on very smooth, and the oil is not leaking out of the cap after a week of driving. Problem solved.

I wanted to do a week of driving to provide enough R&D before posting that it is a viable solution. It does work though.

The one I got from Autozone had the crappy paper gasket too, but it was thin enough that I didn't have to take it off for the cap to fit.
If I might offer 1 piece of advice it's to clean the filter in the cap out with some brake cleaner every once in awhile (maybe at every oil change). After a time, the filter can become saturated with oil and it will start dripping out.

[Bossman429]

I'm thinking I might just replace the cap once a year or so, at only $6 a piece it should work out OK.

[Tony Hanna]

That's the thing, I don't know if once a year would be enough. It really depends on how much sustained high rpm use your engine sees. The one I put on my Daytona didn't leak a drop when I had it, but now that John is driving it back and forth to work everyday mostly on the interstate with the lower geared 555, it's drooling a little. Cleaning out the filter material every so often will put a stop to that. If you don't want to worry about it, I'd grab a cap with a hose barb and route a hose uphill so the oil runs back into the engine, or attach the hose to a vented catch can.
HTH,

[turbovanman²]

Well, an update, no more oil coming out of the catch can filter but now its still coming out of my dipstick tube so I am going to get the cap and put the catch can on there and block off the one side of the factory T.