Base model 2.5 TBI Voyager to Turbo project.

[ShelGame]

Remember that if you rev the engine a little bit it will pull the low side pressure down some which will help pull the charge out of the can.

Where are you getting 2.5bar map?

Yeah, I figured that out. It's still a pain to charge this way.

89ShelbyGuy made me a 2.5 bar MAP to test, he's going to make me a not-so-prototype one when he gets around to it...

[wowzer]

Morris - MP Scan is ALL I use for data logging anymore. Though, I do have an odd problem (that I'm not even sure is related to MP Scan) - every once in a while, the FTDI cable stops working and MP Scan shuts down. Usually, it happens right as I'm collecting some really good data on a problem I've been having, lol.

Overall, I think it's a really great program.

1) what r u using for com settings, i.e. baud rate and drb or high speed logging?
2) when it stops working, does mpscan just bomb out or lock up or give you any kind of an error message?

[ShelGame]

1) what r u using for com settings, i.e. baud rate and drb or high speed logging?
2) when it stops working, does mpscan just bomb out or lock up or give you any kind of an error message?

I'm using the hi-speed logger code @9608 baud. I have not even tried the DRB logging. Though, I probably should try it with a stock cal.

The error message I get makes it seem like it's an FTDI driver or cable problem. Something about not being able to open the port. MP Scan bombs out and closes when I click 'OK'. And then, the FTDI serial port is no longer available in windows. I have to unplug the cable and plug it back in to get it to show up. It's almost like the device was stopped or the cable just unplugged...

[89ShelbyGuy]

Yeah, I figured that out. It's still a pain to charge this way.

89ShelbyGuy made me a 2.5 bar MAP to test, he's going to make me a not-so-prototype one when he gets around to it...

I was waiting for cores to be sent beforei place the big order for all the sensors....but nobody is getting me any......so i i just might get a 3 bar and a 2.5 bar and get them finished up....who knows how long everyone will take..

Tom

[ShelGame]

No rush for me, I'm sure the 2.5 bar you already sent me will work fine...

I just need to get off my a$$ and get it and my FFV injectors installed.

[wowzer]

i'm surprised the logging works with the usb!! i never got it to be very stable although it was better after i changed the latency to 1 or 2 ms. always planned on rewriting it using the native ftdi driver calls versus the com port.................

[ShelGame]

OK did some code testing with T-SMEC tonight. Figured out the problem with Anti-Lag and found a previously unknown issue when NOT using a charge temp sensor. Turns out, the code mod I made to enable it on the 2.5 cals cause it to run rich when it was not used. So, I fixed that and the anti-lag. Also re-worked the shift light code, so it works now. I'm working on a way to make it user-adjustable via the throttle pedal...

While I was at it, I bumped up the timing in the van a hair. Also, pulled fuel below 1500 rpm and at high vacuum to try and get rid of the popping on decel and maybe increase the fuel econ a bit more. Just fixing the charge temp issue above will probably make a huge difference. I'll report back next tank of fuel. Here's hoping for 22MPG :thumb:

[Reeves]

OK did some code testing with T-SMEC tonight. Figured out the problem with Anti-Lag and found a previously unknown issue when NOT using a charge temp sensor. Turns out, the code mod I made to enable it on the 2.5 cals cause it to run rich when it was not used. So, I fixed that and the anti-lag. Also re-worked the shift light code, so it works now. I'm working on a way to make it user-adjustable via the throttle pedal...

While I was at it, I bumped up the timing in the van a hair. Also, pulled fuel below 1500 rpm and at high vacuum to try and get rid of the popping on decel and maybe increase the fuel econ a bit more. Just fixing the charge temp issue above will probably make a huge difference. I'll report back next tank of fuel. Here's hoping for 22MPG :thumb:

Are you close to 22mpg now? If so I'm very jealous! My van is only getting 14 to 16 no matter what I try. Think it's time for a fresh shortblock.

[ShelGame]

Don't know, I only got about 20 or so miles in last night. I tested a lot of different things, too. I bumped up the timing in vac, took out some fuel at low RPM and low vac. It needs a tank of gas now, so I'll fill it up this after noon and let you know what I get from this tank...

[Vigo]

I think ultimately you should be able to get close to what my van used to do.. avg 27. I dont think the turbo engine should lose more than 2 mpg vs the tbi if its optimized for mileage..

Cant wait to hear results..

[Reaper1]

I used to get around 18 in my van IIRC on a stock cal. I just threw that out there for comparison reasons...

[ShelGame]

Bought a 2-button traveler on eBay last week. Just got it today. Didn't come with the pigtail, so I'm looking for one of those. Going to try and get this in the van. Doesn't seem like it will fit above the radio - which is where I'd prefer it was mounted. So, I'll try it in the lower console; I've been meaning to modify it anyway. The doors don't work and they squeal and rattle like crazy. Has anyone ever put a traveler in a van? I can't find any references to it ever being installed (and working) here or on TD.com.

[ShelGame]

Think this will fit between the stock T2 air filter housing and the throttle body? I want to add a BOV to my van (already have an aluminum body eBay BOV that I've never used with a 1" pipe). I think this will work great, I just don't know if it will squeeze down and clamp good on the upper IC pipe in the airbox and also to the throttle body.

It's 2.5" in/out with a 1" T...

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/images/product/silicone_tpipe_black_picture.jpg

[Vigo]

I dont think you could tighten that down over the stock stuff. Dont you have a stock recirculate valve? its decently loud if you move it out of the airbox... :)

[ShelGame]

Dont you have a stock recirculate valve? its decently loud if you move it out of the airbox... :)

Nope. T2 airbox, IC, and piping. Before I put it all together, I tried to find a place to put the BOV, but couldn't come up with anything. I ordered one of those hoses. I'll post up the results when it comes in...

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18809&d=1258763104

[Vigo]

I was working on an 89 TC yesterday and its got the t2 style airbox WITH the t1 bov in it, coming off a t on the lower intercooler hose..

A little moot now, but just saying its possible. Not that its worth doing. :p

[ShelGame]

The 2.2 T2 Auto Masi TC's got the T2 airbox with the BOV. None of the other T2 cars got a BOV from the factory. I've looked for a Masi airbox for a while, just never found one :(

[Vigo]

Should be pretty easy to add it to a t2 airbox.. just a hole for the bov itself and a smaller hole for the vacuum line, but like i said.. a little moot if you're going the aftermarket route anyway. Im guessing the stock one would blow up eventually anyway.

[turbovanman²]

That silicone Tee should work nicely.



Are you close to 22mpg now? If so I'm very jealous! My van is only getting 14 to 16 no matter what I try. Think it's time for a fresh shortblock.

Auto, that's about right. My stock 8 valve setup averaged 17 mpg, now, I average 12-14 mpg. Hopefully the new combo with a LU converter will put me back in the 17's-18's. :o

[ShelGame]

Should be pretty easy to add it to a t2 airbox.. just a hole for the bov itself and a smaller hole for the vacuum line, but like i said.. a little moot if you're going the aftermarket route anyway. Im guessing the stock one would blow up eventually anyway.

That's true. I guess the part I really need is the T2 Auto lower IC hose. Got a WTB thread for one going now.

The BOV I used on my race car was one of the Bosch 110 units (from a Porsche?). I would use the same thing on the van, but I already have this aluminum one. I don't really care if it makes noise or not...

[shelbymonster]

the po of my charger had 2 old plastic bov on the car almost all the time he drove it , and was still working well before i removed it and survived 23 psi , above that boost level i guess it would break

[ShelGame]

What's the right way to remove 20 year old pinstriping? I was doing a little polishing on the rear hatch last night. I want to remove the old pinstriping so I can put new striping on. The rear hatch is looking pretty good, BTW. I took the 'eyebrow' off over the license plate. Found a nice LED license plate light at O'Reilly's that I'll get when my father-in-law goes back to work next week.

[Vigo]

Umm that rubber wheel thingy you can put on a drill thats meant for taking them off works good. Dunno the name..

But, be warned you will still have a stripe.. of unfaded factory color underneath the tape stripe.

[moparman76_69]

Umm that rubber wheel thingy you can put on a drill thats meant for taking them off works good. Dunno the name..

But, be warned you will still have a stripe.. of unfaded factory color underneath the tape stripe.

eraser wheel.

Erase the old stripe but do it carefully or you'll burn the paint, then you can color sand a buff to get rid of the discoloration.

[ShelGame]

Not too warried about discoloration - I plan to put fresh red stripes back on...

[Vigo]

eraser wheel.

That seems REALLY obvious in retrospect.. hehe.

[turbovanman²]

Found a nice LED license plate light at O'Reilly's that I'll get when my father-in-law goes back to work next week.

Pics! :D

Oh Rob, I found these wicked bumpers, they are one piece, but not the ES that had the body cladding. I have to get them, :o

[ShelGame]

Pics! :D

Oh Rob, I found these wicked bumpers, they are one piece, but not the ES that had the body cladding. I have to get them, :o

Pics! :D What're they from?

I've always wanted to try and get the body side cladding from a '94/95 'Sport' to fit those pieces on to the early vans. Shouldn't be too hard, the body is basically the same...

[Vigo]

The body is almost EXACTLY the same. The side of the body are the same, the newer cladding covers the same body line thats visible in the old ones, except the front fenders are different around the headlights.. The rear taillights, are shorter so using a newer rear bumper cover would require newer taillights, and i think the rear hatch has more rounded corners so the tails might not match the liftgate.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/1992-93_Dodge_Caravan.jpg

[turbovanman²]

Pics! :D What're they from?

I've always wanted to try and get the body side cladding from a '94/95 'Sport' to fit those pieces on to the early vans. Shouldn't be too hard, the body is basically the same...

They have 2 maroon 88 SE caravan's there, and both have them, its weird. There is also another 89 with the mouldings that have the lines running thru them. The bumpers cover up the metal up front and its smooth, I have a pic of it and have to upload it.

Trouble is, I might have to cut them a bit as I have an oil and tranny cooler I hang off the bumper now, doh!

Both also have the travellers, wonder what I need to make them work?

I also grabbed the door panels, they are fully carpeted with a better material, $20 for both, lol. I wouldn't mind the seats as they are full power but I am putting Recaro's in one day. I might grab a rear seat, same higher quality material and they are in decent shape.

[ShelGame]

They have 2 maroon 88 SE caravan's there, and both have them, its weird. There is also another 89 with the mouldings that have the lines running thru them. The bumpers cover up the metal up front and its smooth, I have a pic of it and have to upload it.

Trouble is, I might have to cut them a bit as I have an oil and tranny cooler I hang off the bumper now, doh!

Pics are definitely required.


Both also have the travellers, wonder what I need to make them work?

I also grabbed the door panels, they are fully carpeted with a better material, $20 for both, lol. I wouldn't mind the seats as they are full power but I am putting Recaro's in one day. I might grab a rear seat, same higher quality material and they are in decent shape.

Traveller's? I didn't think the vans came with at all? I have one I'm going to try and install in my van.

I think I need pics of the door panels, too.

Makes me wonder if you found some special export-only vans that we didn't get here in the US?

[ShelGame]

The body is almost EXACTLY the same. The side of the body are the same, the newer cladding covers the same body line thats visible in the old ones, except the front fenders are different around the headlights.. The rear taillights, are shorter so using a newer rear bumper cover would require newer taillights, and i think the rear hatch has more rounded corners so the tails might not match the liftgate.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/1992-93_Dodge_Caravan.jpg

Yes! That's the one!

I was thinking you could probably just swap over the entire rear - hatch, lights, bumper? I haven't had the opportunity to actually see one to check if the hinge and latch mechanisms are the same or not. I actually wanted to convert all of the bodywork on my van to look just like the red one you posted. But, I think the front end is too different. Rad support is different. Might be able to graft on the later rad support, but that's too much work for me. I'd be fine with the SE bumpers...

[Vigo]

The only thing that seems like a possible hang up in the liftgate swap would be the latch mechanism.. I know my 90 has the metal loop thing dead center but ive seen others that were offset to one side a little, dont know for sure how the newer vans are.

I got my 1990 2.5 TBI/523 turbo conversion van put together well enough to drive, finally. wastegate boost on a mitsu through a stock exhaust.. is still not bad with a 5spd!

Cant wait to turn it up.. This has been one my favorite threads to watch for a long time now, so keep it up! :)

[ShelGame]

Got my silicone 'T' fittign yesterday. Sorry, no pics - on vacation (typing from the hotel lobby now, kids are sleeping). I'll post pics once I get it installed. Looks like it will fit well. I'm also trying to get a T2 BOV fitting in case this doesn't work so well...

[Vigo]

Well, if it doesnt tighten down you can always make spacer rings out of other hoses to take up the space.. its ghetto, but ive done it.

[ShelGame]

That silicone "T" is too big to fit our throttle bodies. Bummer. It fits my BOV perfect. Oh well, I guess I'll put the T2 BOV pipe I got from Butch in there.

[ShelGame]

Anyone have any advice for installing a 2-button navigator in a van? I started a thread in the wiring section about it...

[ShelGame]

So, on my last tank of fuel, I got ~22mpg.

Anyone know how to set the time on an Infinity radio? I cannot for the life of me figure it out. The time's been wrong since I put the thing together...

[135sohc]

To date on all 'modern' (84+) chrysler radio's you set the time by pressing the little dot's that say H or M on the right side of the radio face.

[ShelGame]

No, no H&M's on this thing. And, I'm pretty sure it's an early 90's Infinity radio. It has the 5-band EQ and the joystick for balance/fade control. No CD, cassette only. Plugged right into the van's harness. It came in a box with my Spirit R/T...

[Vigo]

could you post a picture of it?

[Vigo]

Any news on upgraded map sensor? How much boost you currently running?

[ShelGame]

No, no chance yet to fix the WG actuator. I want to do that before I try to run more boost or install the 2.5 bar MAP. Still just running 14psi.

Last tank of gas, I got just shy of 23mpg. This tank will suck, though. Been messing with cals (and resetting the adaptives in the process).

[ShelGame]

Ahhh, boost control. No more baby stepping the throttle to stay out of overboost shutdown.

I swapped the T1 Garret large can WGA for a T2 small can on Saturday. It's so much more fun to not worry so much about overboost. I still hit it on occasion, though it's much more difficult now. I guess I still need to do a little WG tuning. At least now, I can.

Next up, 2.5 Bar MAP and FFV injectors/rail, an adjustable FPR, and 16psi boost...

[Reeves]

Ahhh, boost control. No more baby stepping the throttle to stay out of overboost shutdown.

I swapped the T1 Garret large can WGA for a T2 small can on Saturday. It's so much more fun to not worry so much about overboost. I still hit it on occasion, though it's much more difficult now. I guess I still need to do a little WG tuning. At least now, I can.

Next up, 2.5 Bar MAP and FFV injectors/rail, an adjustable FPR, and 16psi boost...

:thumb:

[turbokid]

Sounds like your making good progress.

[Vigo]

Wait, so you went to the smaller can?

That's something ive never even really thought about.. I just had to shim my small can on my spirit last weekend because it wouldnt go over 13 unplugged. Still dont know if it will go as high as i want (18-20).

But, if your small can is better than mine, more power to you.. but why were you hitting overboost? Notwithstanding the obvious reason that it was still turned on, but what in your setup is causing that? Ive never had boost control problems with stock garretts and the big can wastegate before (MBCs only). Im guessing it has something to do with the length of the lines to the WG solenoid? I know im using that solenoid as part of the 2-stage boost controller on my aries, and there is a noticeable lag between the solenoid opening and the wastegate actually responding..

[ShelGame]

Wait, so you went to the smaller can?

That's something ive never even really thought about.. I just had to shim my small can on my spirit last weekend because it wouldnt go over 13 unplugged. Still dont know if it will go as high as i want (18-20).

But, if your small can is better than mine, more power to you.. but why were you hitting overboost? Notwithstanding the obvious reason that it was still turned on, but what in your setup is causing that? Ive never had boost control problems with stock garretts and the big can wastegate before (MBCs only). Im guessing it has something to do with the length of the lines to the WG solenoid? I know im using that solenoid as part of the 2-stage boost controller on my aries, and there is a noticeable lag between the solenoid opening and the wastegate actually responding..

2.5 T1 boost control running a Garret with a 3" exhaust might do it all by itself. I haven't done ANY WG tuning at all.

With computer controlled boost, it shouldn't need a big can to run higher boost - at least at the boost I plan to run (18psi max). Since the computer only allows the WGA to 'see' the boost required to control the WG.

I can only see it being a problem if the exhaust backpressure is enough to overcome the WGA spring force. But, I don't see how a large can would be better in that regard, since the WGA noramlly 'sees' atmosphere with the T1 boost control.

I really only went with the small can because the only large can I had was the old T1 Garret style. It's a PITA to get on/off with the turo installed. I removed it to make it adjustable, but when it came to re-installing it, I saif F-it and put the small can on there...

[Vigo]

I really only went with the small can because the only large can I had was the old T1 Garret style. It's a PITA to get on/off with the turo installed. I removed it to make it adjustable, but when it came to re-installing it, I saif F-it and put the small can on there...


Ahhhhhhhhh.. That would have been my first choice too, adjustable large can.. but i can understand your frustration and subsequent compromise. Like you say, it will probably work anyway.

But, the advantage of the bigger can is just a bigger, stronger spring pulling the wastegate arm closed. The big can also has a commensurately bigger diaphragm for the air side to push on, which counteracts this IF there is pressure there, and both large and small cans make similar minimum boost (i.e. run straight to manifold). But, when there is no pressure there (i.e. unplugged or shooting for the moon) the difference in the diaphragm area is meaningless and the difference you are left with is a stronger spring.

[ShelGame]

Put the air shocks on this afternoon, along with the reciever (hitch). Almost ready to tow...

[turbokid]

Is that the ultimate goal with this vehicle or is it a daily driver too?

[ShelGame]

Anyone ever tried to fit GLH side skirts on a Mini? I know they wouldn't be long enough, but I'm wondering if they would fit otherwise. If you had a broken set, you could cobble something together for the length.

I've always thought the vans looked a bit like the Omni, only much bigger. I was thinking today I'd like to build a 'VFH' (Van From Hell) using the same style as the GLH. Black out the grill and bumper, black side skirts, etc. The side skirts would be the toughest to do.

I wonder if I can get vntodd to update the sketch he did for me to show GLH side skirts and a blacked out front end...

[ShelGame]

Is that the ultimate goal with this vehicle or is it a daily driver too?

I want to be able to tow my Daytona to the race track. And, possibly sleep in the van, too (working on getting a convert-a-bed for the 2nd row).

But, I drive it every day to work and back, 25 miles each way. Have been since December when the lease expired on my old car. I've put almost 8000 miles on it now since getting it all together with no major issues at all (I mean, other than the constant rattling and the noise of the exhaust). It runs like a top and has never left me hanging - knock on the fake wood dash...

No car payments is very nice...

[turbokid]

LOL thats cool. Plans on another dd after its converted to a tower for the tona or is it just gonna continue to be a tow vehicle?

[ShelGame]

I'll do both, use it for towing and drive it every day. If my wife finds a killer job, I may get a 2nd gen Dakota and put a Hemi in it for towing. Then the van can go back to daily driver only.

I forgot to mention - it's also a rolling testbed for calibration stuff.

[Aries_Turbo]

I forgot to mention - it's also a rolling testbed for calibration stuff.

good, make some adapters so you can plug a LM/PM or a SBEC into the SMEC harness connectors so you can test it all! ;)

brian

[ShelGame]

good, make some adapters so you can plug a LM/PM or a SBEC into the SMEC harness connectors so you can test it all! ;)

brian

That's actually a pretty good idea...

[Captain Chaos]

I want to be able to tow my Daytona to the race track. And, possibly sleep in the van, too (working on getting a convert-a-bed for the 2nd row).

Reaper1 had one for sale a while ago, don't know if he still has it. You'd probably have to come to the Gators to be able to afford the shipping.

[ShelGame]

There's a guy over in Il that picked one up from SDAC and he doesn't want it afterall. I just have to find the time to go and get it I think...

[Captain Chaos]

Cool. I know he said it was extremely heavy.

[Aries_Turbo]

That's actually a pretty good idea...

i may have some extra red and blue LM connectors and the PM connectors if you decide to do so.

Brian

[Reeves]

i may have some extra red and blue LM connectors and the PM connectors if you decide to do so.

Brian

I also have plenty of LM and PM and SMEC connectors.

[Reaper1]

Reaper1 had one for sale a while ago, don't know if he still has it. You'd probably have to come to the Gators to be able to afford the shipping.


Cool. I know he said it was extremely heavy.

Yeah. I sold that convert-a-bed a LONG time ago. I think I might still have pictures of it someplace. It was maroon and was in pretty darn good condition. If I had to guess it weighed in around 200#'s or so. 1 person *can* move it, but I don't suggest it unless you're training for the World's Strongest Man competition! LOL

The last I knew that convert-a-bed was on its way to PA IIRC.

[ShelGame]

Been a long time with no updates.

So, I've kind of decided on a look for the van. I want to make it a GLH clone.

I've always thought the vans had more than a passing resemblance to the Omni. So, my idea is to black out the grill and headlights (keeping the CV lights), and figure out some way to make flat black side skirts. There is a guy on eBay selling side skirt material by the foot. I suppose it would work. But, I'd prefer to get a couple sets of broken GLH side skirts and graft them together to go the full length of the van. I want to get at least the hood and the tops of the fenders repainted. The rest of the van really isn't that bad. It could certainly use a complete body and paint restoration. I just don't think it's worth it. I have some wide red pinstripe to replace the seriously faded double red stripes. And, I think I'll need to find some black body molding for the sides like the GLH's had. Then I just need to get some 'VFH' decals made up.

Also, the wood grain in the interior needs to go. Anyone recommend a good flat/satin black for the dash panels?

[Reaper1]

Rob, Krylon makes paint just for plastic parts. Make sure to clean it really well and use the adhesive promotor. You can also find paint made especially for interior trim of vehicles at most auto parts stores and Eastwood.

HTH! :thumb:

[ShelGame]

Anyone know if the pass side axle on the vans is the same as the cars? Mine has a split boot and it's knocking. I have a spare short shaft for my Daytona. If they're the same, I'll just use that one. Otherwise, I'm looking for a new pass side half shaft for the van... :(

[turbovanman²]

Anyone ever tried to fit GLH side skirts on a Mini? I know they wouldn't be long enough, but I'm wondering if they would fit otherwise. If you had a broken set, you could cobble something together for the length.

I've always thought the vans looked a bit like the Omni, only much bigger. I was thinking today I'd like to build a 'VFH' (Van From Hell) using the same style as the GLH. Black out the grill and bumper, black side skirts, etc. The side skirts would be the toughest to do.

I wonder if I can get vntodd to update the sketch he did for me to show GLH side skirts and a blacked out front end...

Van's came with skirts, I bought the plastic bumpers and skirts off an SE, I'll snap some photo's today of the front bumper and skirts. The bumper literally bolt on, you have to drill a hole in the fenders to attach the wrap around mouldings and the skirts, the mounting metal strip is riveted on then the skirts screw on.


Anyone know if the pass side axle on the vans is the same as the cars? Mine has a split boot and it's knocking. I have a spare short shaft for my Daytona. If they're the same, I'll just use that one. Otherwise, I'm looking for a new pass side half shaft for the van... :(

Nope, sorry dude. See my last PM. :D

[ShelGame]

Got the shaft swapped last weekend. Not too bad. I got a new halfshaft from O'Really's for $43 (with my father-in-law's discount :thumb:)...

[Vigo]

I just re-read this thread so if i missed this i have no excuse..

but did you ever get those nasty running boards off?

Also, how do you feel about the towing experience so far? I put a hitch on my van but havent towed with it yet.

[ShelGame]

I just re-read this thread so if i missed this i have no excuse..

but did you ever get those nasty running boards off?

Also, how do you feel about the towing experience so far? I put a hitch on my van but havent towed with it yet.

Those running boards are now in my recycle pile on the side of the house - yes they are OFF. Now, I want to figure out how to put some side skirts on it (like the GLH).

I have only towed the trailer without the car on it. It was a little scary. I'm used to towing with a truck. Since the hitch is attached directly to the body on the van, every little bump rattle the crap out of the van. I have pulled the trailer with the car on it just to move it out of the way. I wasn't brave enough to tow it long distance. I might yet take it down to Milan this fall (30min drive) with the van. The problem is, even with the car loaded as far back on the trailer as I can get it, it's still way too much tongue weight for the van - especially lowered. It was ~1/4" off the bump stops. I have air shocks on it, but even at 40psi it didn't come up much. I think it needs some kind of air tank or something. Or airbags. Anyway, I need to try it again...

[Reeves]

air bags FTW

[Vigo]

Ive found that usually every trailer 'feels' less jittery when there's something on it.

As far as the airbags, i posted a link to a kit early in this thread.

I havent towed with my van either but based on how great my towing experiences with my Dynasty have been, im hoping for a good experience.. Mine will be dolley and utility trailer only for the most part. I dont think i'll go over 4000lb total.

[ShelGame]

Ive found that usually every trailer 'feels' less jittery when there's something on it.

As far as the airbags, i posted a link to a kit early in this thread.

I havent towed with my van either but based on how great my towing experiences with my Dynasty have been, im hoping for a good experience.. Mine will be dolley and utility trailer only for the most part. I dont think i'll go over 4000lb total.

Yeah, my trailer + car are probably 3500 - 4K lbs - which is why it's a little scary. With the back of the van loaded up with the toolbox and other stuff, it would be pretty loaded down. One of the upgrades I want to do this winter is the big-brake kit. That should help with towing. And, I need to get the trailer brakes working, too.

I remember the airbag link. I just can't afford them right now. Especially since the airshocks are new.

[Vigo]

I did the 11" brakes on the front of mine, definitely a worthwhile mod. I dont have any plans to upgrade the rear brakes.. i think they are pretty beefy as it is.

I remember something about you replacing the leaf springs.. did you replace both? If you still have them you could add some of the shorter leafs to your spring packs and take out the lift blocks. Might give some weight capacity and keep the same ride height. That is a lot of effort for possibly minor gain, though. The airbags are probably the permanent solution but i understand the cost thing. It's hard to justify things like that at certain times.

This is still my favorite van thread on TM so keep it going. Take this thing to the track sometime!

[ShelGame]

I did the 11" brakes on the front of mine, definitely a worthwhile mod. I dont have any plans to upgrade the rear brakes.. i think they are pretty beefy as it is.

I remember something about you replacing the leaf springs.. did you replace both? If you still have them you could add some of the shorter leafs to your spring packs and take out the lift blocks. Might give some weight capacity and keep the same ride height. That is a lot of effort for possibly minor gain, though. The airbags are probably the permanent solution but i understand the cost thing. It's hard to justify things like that at certain times.

This is still my favorite van thread on TM so keep it going. Take this thing to the track sometime!

You think the rear drums are good enough? I thought adding the Shelby Daytona rear vented disks would be an upgrade. Maybe not. I really wish I hadn't sold those parts off the Daytona race car when I 'downgraded' it. They'd be prefect for this van.

I suppose I could take out the blocks and swap in leafs from the 'spare' leafs to raise it back up and add some load capacity. I didn't think of that. It would probably just be a bunch of trial and error, and I really don't have time for it. But, maybe I can work it out.

Airbags are still the way to go. I'd like to even put airbags in the front struts.

It will go TO the track (towing), I just don't know if it will go DOWN the track. I have to drive this thing to work everyday; Can't afford to break it.

[Vigo]

I do think the rear drums are good enough..

Here's my thinking. If your brakes are strong enough that you can get them to lock up the tires, then the ONLY benefit beyond that is better fade resistance from having more metal, i.e. bigger rotors/drums etc. Fade really isnt an issue unless you are doing repeated hard stops.

Since the vans basically have an adjustable valve for the rear brakes, you can adjust the rear brakes up if you dont think they are doing enough. As long as they dont lock up BEFORE the fronts do...

But if you come to a point where you've adjusted it and you can lock up all 4 tires with enough force on the pedal, then at that point you need a tire upgrade more than a brake upgrade.

That's my thinking, anyway. I'd mess with the rear brake adjustment and do the 11" fronts before i dropped any money (and a fair bit of time considering all the adaptation required) on the 11" rears.

[turbovanman²]

I haven't towed with the new brakes but towed a heavy metal 4x8 utility trailer with my bike and gear, aprox 1500 lbs, it was fine, and then I got my 6 or 7x12 enclosed trailer, aprox 2500 lbs and tows like a brick, but it has its own brakes, I have towed it for short distances, with 2 bikes and gear, I guess around 3500 lbs, it was ok but on the freeway, it had trouble pulling it which is the norm on other vehicles due to the drag. I'll be towing it again this weekend with my TIII engine, :thumb:

I would just turn up my rear shocks and it would be fine, it wouldn't bottom out.

[Reeves]

For heavy towing, I'd keep the stock rear drums as well. They are major beefy and should be enough.

Also, the stock rear spindles and stock rear bearings are way bigger/beefier than any of the car stuff. Better for towing.

Is your trailer or tow dolly going to have electric brakes?

[chryguy]

Hey Rob,

I'll hold on to that seat for ya, so don't worry about it. We'll figure somethin' out. :)

I've towed a neon on my steel-frame, flat deck utility trailer across the Chicagoland area (20-30 miles) behind the van, and it felt big and heavy. I've always thought an aluminum frame trailer would work better behind the van.
I've towed all over the eastern US with the dolly behind both of my DD vans, and they felt fine. I did have air lift springs/bags on the old van...never did get around to installing them on this one yet.
Your right about noise. They are really noisy when you have something rollin' behind you. I eventually started to carry a compressor and air down the tires on the dolly when it was empty. Kept the tires on the road more often and greatly reduced the noise factor.

CG

[Vigo]

A lot of the noise also can come from how tight your ballmount fits into the receiver. If there is any slack whatever you are towing will bang that thing around in the receiver and introduce a bunch of noise into the tow vehicle.

If it's loose id drill a hole on the bottom and have somebody weld a big nut onto the bottom of the receiver, and then put a big bolt in there to tighten up when you tow. A jamnut should hold it tight once you set it.

Also, on my dolley i hook the straps to the end of the ramps instead of containing them to the deck itself.. after i tighten them the deck doesnt bounce and bang and make so much noise.

[ShelGame]

For heavy towing, I'd keep the stock rear drums as well. They are major beefy and should be enough.

Also, the stock rear spindles and stock rear bearings are way bigger/beefier than any of the car stuff. Better for towing.

Is your trailer or tow dolly going to have electric brakes?

My trailer already does have electric brakes on the front axle. They just haven't been hooked up in years. I need to get them going next year if I'm really going to tow with this thing...

[ShelGame]

A lot of the noise also can come from how tight your ballmount fits into the receiver. If there is any slack whatever you are towing will bang that thing around in the receiver and introduce a bunch of noise into the tow vehicle.

If it's loose id drill a hole on the bottom and have somebody weld a big nut onto the bottom of the receiver, and then put a big bolt in there to tighten up when you tow. A jamnut should hold it tight once you set it.

Also, on my dolley i hook the straps to the end of the ramps instead of containing them to the deck itself.. after i tighten them the deck doesnt bounce and bang and make so much noise.

The reciever fits really tight. It's tough to get it in/out. I'm sure it will loosen up as the paint gets beaten off of it. And, I'm sure it won't be so loud when the car is on it.

Once I get the convert-a-bed rear seat, I'll need to rig up some removeable curatins in the back of this thing. I want to take it to at least 1 race next year and sleep in it, lol. I think it'd be greato go to the track with a complete rig that cost less than 10k (including the trailer and race car) and qualify #1.

Anyone ever put curtains in the back of a van before? They'd have to be removeable, though. Maybe just a few sets of those sun shades would work...

[Aries_Turbo]

you could use the curtain rods with the hole in each end and the little stamped steel bracket that is held to the wall with two nails and forms a little hook of sorts.

use those 3m command strips to hold the "hooks" to the plastic around the windows so you dont have to drill holes in the van if you care about that sort of thing.

i wonder if you could find some mopar fabric or you could use camo so you dont get called a pansy for having curtains in your caravan. :)

use a tension rod to curtain off the rear sleeping area from the front.

that would be cool.

Brian

[rare_ram]

All this talk of towing has me wondering. Why does the owners manual say not to tow with the Turbo engine?

[black86glhs]

All this talk of towing has me wondering. Why does the owners manual say not to tow with the Turbo engine?

My thinking on it is that you would be into the go pedal enough most of the time to cause the engine to be under near constant boost. Might get into a overheat condition or hot spots in the cylinder head, especially around cyl #4.

[ShelGame]

you could use the curtain rods with the hole in each end and the little stamped steel bracket that is held to the wall with two nails and forms a little hook of sorts.

use those 3m command strips to hold the "hooks" to the plastic around the windows so you dont have to drill holes in the van if you care about that sort of thing.

No, no drilling. I don't want holes in there. And, I really don't want the curtains in there all the time. I really want something I can take down when I'm not going racing.



use a tension rod to curtain off the rear sleeping area from the front.

that would be cool.

That is a good idea. I wonder if it would work for the sides? I bet I could come up with a temporary framework that would hold up some store-bought maroon curtains. Even if I had to put up some hooks, I guess that'd be ok - so long as the rods come down when I don't need them.

Maroon curtains must be cheap, lol. Really, I just want to keep the sun out in the morning. Nothing sucks like getting woken up at 5am at the race track on your day off...

Then again, maybe I should just 'skin' the van in a massive BoostButton decal, windows and all.

[Aries_Turbo]

the 3m command strips at double stick tape that things that come down real easily when you pull them without residue and sticky crap.

i cant remember, are the window pockets deep? you could just use tension rods with the little rubber snubbers on the tips. i have those in my window frames at home to hold my blackout cloths in place when im using my projector.

Brian

[ShelGame]

I think they are pretty deep. That's whay I was wondering if I could just use the sunshades on the side windows as well as the windshield. Not sure if it would stay put in the slider window, though. And, the rear pop-outs might be too small to fit the sunshades.

[black86glhs]

What about pieces of plexi that are tinted as dark as you can that are sized for each window? You could use suction cups to hold them to the glass.

[ShelGame]

What about pieces of plexi that are tinted as dark as you can that are sized for each window? You could use suction cups to hold them to the glass.

Cardboard painted black would be cheaper, but that's a good idea. I think I'll give that a shot. I didn't really like the idea of curatins in my 'hot rod' anyway.

[black86glhs]

Cardboard does sound better. Easier to carry and will probably stay put in the opening better.:clap:

[Aries_Turbo]

walmart carries black foam/posterboard. the foam core stuff with a layer of posterboard paper on each side, less than 1/4" thick and already black. all youd have to do is cut it out and pop it in.

[ShelGame]

Perfect! I'll try that...

[ShelGame]

OK, so I get home from racing this weekend, take the van for a drive, and notice it's now leaking fuel from around the middle rear of the fuel tank, only when the engine is running. Must be a bad fuel hose on top of the tank. Goody! Looks like I get to drop the tank - again... :(

[Vigo]

I feel your pain. When i turbo swapped my van i had to drop the tank and put a fuel pump in it..

And then a few miles later it died, and now it sits again until i do it again (got plenty of pumps but less motivation). :(

So to be clear, you DID tow the daytona with the van?

[ShelGame]

I feel your pain. When i turbo swapped my van i had to drop the tank and put a fuel pump in it..

And then a few miles later it died, and now it sits again until i do it again (got plenty of pumps but less motivation). :(

So to be clear, you DID tow the daytona with the van?

No, that's probably part of the problem. The van sat all idle weekend. Plus, it got cold here really for the 1st time this year (down to 40's at night). I figure one of the hoses is all dried out and loose at the connection.

[ShelGame]

Crap, I think I lost a brake line on the way to work this morning. Brake pedal was really soft all the way in, but I made it. I broke the LH rear line when I did the springs last winter, the RH was pretty rusty, too. I bet it's cracked now. Here's hoping I get home OK with half the brake circuit. Gonna be replacing brake lines in the rain tonight - Yay!

Oh, and the fuel leak mysteriously stopped on it's own...

[Vigo]

I had to replace both those rear lines on my van.. its originally from Wisconsin.

It's a lot easier than on some cars. Also, i think the fuel tank is sorta in the way of them so you might as well kill two birds and REALLY fix those fuel lines too :)

[ShelGame]

Damn, it's not the line - it's the wheel cylinder I think. There's no fluid coming off the line, but there's a bunch coming out from behind the drum and onto the wheel. Off to get brake parts now...

[Vigo]

That is a WAY easier and cheaper fix. ~$9 for a wheel cylinder last i checked :)

The hardest part is getting the RIGHT part on the first try.. all those wheel cylinders do tend to look alike and ive gotten the run around before trying to get the right one.

[ShelGame]

Wheel cylinders are cheap, but the rear needs a brake job (I'm sure these are the originals) so I got 2 new wheels cyls, drums, shoes, hardware - everything. I have new parking brake cables that I've been putting off installing until I did the brake job. So, tonight, the rear brakes come off and get re-built. It's really the last mechanical thing on this van I haven't done. It will be nice having the park brake working...

Driving the Spirit R/T until the van is fixed. I wish I hadn't sold this car to my father-in-law. The van is fun to drive, but the R/T is such a nicer ride...

[Vigo]

Nicer but way less useful and way less sleeper and way less unique. Having both a turbo van and a turbo spirit i can see where you are coming from but if i had to put one on the chopping block it'd be the spirit by a mile for those reasons.

[ShelGame]

OK got the rear brakes completely rebuilt this afternoon. Had to replace the RH side brake line, too. It came apart when I tried to remove it from the old wheel cylinder. Still don't know exactly what went wrong, but there was brake fluid all over the insides of the drum, shoes, etc. Got it all cleaned up and rebuilt. Man, what a PITFA drum brakes are. I almost wish I had just converted to disks. Had to bleed the LH front, too since air got in the lines when I lost all the fluid out. But, the van has brakes again and stops good! :thumb:

EDIT: oh yeah, I also figured out why the air shocks didn't lift the rear up very much. The air hoses were sheared off by the leaf springs. If you read this James, how did you route the air lines for the VW air shocks? They can only go 2 ways, straight in or straight out. Straigt in, they will hit the body, out the leaf spring sweeps across and hits the air line. I don't see any way to fix it. Short of airbags, that is. I guess I could just put a schrader in each shock and set them individually...

[Reeves]

EDIT: oh yeah, I also figured out why the air shocks didn't lift the rear up very much. The air hoses were sheared off by the leaf springs. If you read this James, how did you route the air lines for the VW air shocks? They can only go 2 ways, straight in or straight out. Straigt in, they will hit the body, out the leaf spring sweeps across and hits the air line. I don't see any way to fix it. Short of airbags, that is. I guess I could just put a schrader in each shock and set them individually...

IIRC, I mounted mine straight out and at the top. Don't remember the leaf springs being a problem at all :confused:

I'd look to see if I had a pic....but I no longer have my laptop with all my pics/info on it :(

[ShelGame]

Yeah, these leafs are really low. There's only about 1" of clearance between the spring and air line at ride height.

I suppose I could turn them upside down. Might work better that way. I think the oil chamber for the shocks was supposed to be at the bottom, though. Hmm...

[Reeves]

Yeah, these leafs are really low. There's only about 1" of clearance between the spring and air line at ride height.

I suppose I could turn them upside down. Might work better that way. I think the oil chamber for the shocks was supposed to be at the bottom, though. Hmm...

My air valve is up by the top mounting bolt, facing outward. I'm almost positive. No leaf spring in sight ?

[ShelGame]

On mine, it's an inch or 2 down from the mounting bolt, but it's on the outboard side. The leaf is less than an inch away from the shock body. It won't hit the cap on the shock, but it swipes the hose right off...

[ShelGame]

Rolled over 10k on the van (since the rebuild) last week. Still runs like a top. Though, there's a squeak coming from the rear brakes I just noticed the other day. I think the park brake cable spring must be rubbing on the drum. Since I don't have tension on it (still no front cable installed), It's kind of coiled up in there. I'm going to order some replacement hardware for the front cable so I can get it all done (finally).

[Reeves]

Rolled over 10k on the van (since the rebuild) last week. Still runs like a top. Though, there's a squeak coming from the rear brakes I just noticed the other day. I think the park brake cable spring must be rubbing on the drum. Since I don't have tension on it (still no front cable installed), It's kind of coiled up in there. I'm going to order some replacement hardware for the front cable so I can get it all done (finally).

I still plan to look at that stuff for you in the barn if you still need it.
Sorry it is taking me so long. I'm swamped at work right now.

[ShelGame]

I still plan to look at that stuff for you in the barn if you still need it.
Sorry it is taking me so long. I'm swamped at work right now.

I would still like those parts, but no rush at all...

[ShelGame]

Got the park brake cable and hardware installed tonight. It's nice to finally have a back-up system if (when?) the next rusty brake line fails...

I really need to patch the RH rear fender before winter this year. I'm afraid it will get too bad to fix if I don't do it right now. Anyone have any suggestions for making a patch panel there? Anyone parting out a van with a non-rusty RH rear fender?

[135sohc]

Use a d-side front fender to get the curved portion.

[ShelGame]

No, the portion I need is down low. I don't think the shape is the same on the rear of the front fender. But, it might be close...

[135sohc]

Down low dog leg rot ?

The fender reference is an old trick I've heard works for P body (and probably other tm's as well) but I've never tried it. Not necessarily using the entire fender as a patch panel but atleast for the curved tire opening portion since thats the hardest thing to form from scratch.

[RoadWarrior222]

I've got two front fenders saved to do mine. Though there's still enough metal in them that I might just patch for now. I've got a bit of perforation on the rocker on the one side though, so dunno whether to patch dogleg and patch rocker, or put on a "new" rocker first, then patch the dogleg...

Apparently the repair panels that are available for our vans (Yes, if you dig, dig dig, you'll find them) are such poor quality that you're better off starting with fresh metal. At least that's what I've been told by every body guy I've talked to about it.... and even some of the suppliers who can get them.

You do only really need a very simple brake for making rockers though, like a workmate and two bed frame rails.

[ShelGame]

I just checked - I don't have any good pictures of the rusty area. I'll try to take some tonight. But, it goes down nearly to the bottom of the rocker, up the fender lip past the dogleg. The part down low is flat enough that it would be easy to make a patch panel. But, the dogleg going into the fender lip is going to be tough...

[RoadWarrior222]

Oh, yours is right into the dogleg and round the corner under the door? That won't be fun.

Mine's mostly lower than that.

[ShelGame]

I guess I'm using the term 'dogleg' wrong. I don't have any rust under the door - yet.

The rust on mine is currently only on the fender edge. But, there is a crease line in the body about 10in up from the bottom. Below the crease, the panel is pretty flat - it would be easy to make a patch panel for. But, above the crease, the fender lip has a curved shape, and there is a 2nd crease leading into the main line. I have rust on the fender lip and in the crease area. I think these creases and the fender lip curve will be really hard to make a panel for. And, I compared the front fenders, they're not really a good match either.

[Vigo]

I cut a whole quarter out of a donor van to fix that on mine (havent done it yet). Unfortunately i have let at least 3 more go to the yard with it because down here im the only weirdo that needs to do rust repair.

If i end up in possession of another van that's going to scrap, ill let you know.

[ShelGame]

I cut a whole quarter out of a donor van to fix that on mine (havent done it yet). Unfortunately i have let at least 3 more go to the yard with it because down here im the only weirdo that needs to do rust repair.

If i end up in possession of another van that's going to scrap, ill let you know.

Thanks.

I need to do this soon, it will be full-on winter here in 4-6 weeks...

[RoadWarrior222]

Curse you and your unfettered access to rust free parts! :D

I need doors bad... they are real bastages to ship though and if anything local turns up it's $$$$$... as in, "Pardon, sorry, I wasn't looking for a certified and e-tested running van, just a door..."

[ShelGame]

Anyone ever convert a SMEC van to SBEC? Should be easy, right? Just swap the engine bay harness? I want to convert the van over to SBEC so I can fully develop my SBEC code. I have a harness and SBEC coming but want to know what I'm looking at before I start unplugging stuff...

[Aries_Turbo]

ive run a 90 sbec van harness in a 88 smec k car. granted, its not a turbo anything but other than 2 winshield wiper pins that i had to move, it popped right on and worked perfectly.

should work just fine on your van.

i myself would try to make an adapter set to connect the SBEC to the smec 60way and high current terminals.

Brian

[ShelGame]

Got the new harness today. It needs to be re-tapped in many places, but that's no big deal. I'll see if I can get it in the van this weekend...

[ShelGame]

Going to get new front fenders and hood from shelbyconcepts! :thumb: I'll just need to paint the roof, then. I think I'll get the passenger side seat base, too, and put it under the drivers seat in my van for extra storage. Here's hoping the color matches. Too bad he already claimed the pass side fender for himself :(

Also, I'm going to swap it over to SBEC probably T-giving weekend. Brian, I think I might do what you suggested, but the other way around. I think it will be easier to make a jumper harness to plug the SMEC into the SBEC harness. Since the SMEC is batch fire, it would be tough to convert it to running on a SBEC with just a jumper harness between the 60-way and 14-way connectors. But, going the other way should be no problem. Gotta get it running on the SBEC first...

[ShelGame]

OK, got the 'new' hood and cowl piece on this morning. Didn't have time to do the fenders, going to my sister-in-laws birthday party shortly.

In short, it looks a million times better than the old hood, and I can't wait to get to work on the fenders. Paint is not 100% exact match, but it's pretty darn close. Also, it's obvious now that the LH side of the van has been re-painted at some point. The hood matches the RH side better than the left.

Also took a pic of the rust I need to repair. Any tips on using one of the old front fenders to make a patch panel?

Special thanks to Tim Costello for the great price on these parts...

Onto the pictures:

[Vigo]

What, new exterior pics of the van with good lighting?! UNPOSSIBLE! :lol:

Thats about how my van looked before i made it worse. After i got my new quarter i thought 'hell, no reason not to ruin the old one, i wonder what it looks like in there?'. I took after it lightly with an angle grinder just following the rust around to see where it stopped.. turned out mine had been repaired once before and under the repair there was almost nothing there!!

Yours looks better than mine, hope it really is.

Keep up the good work. Nice CV front end.

[ShelGame]

I thinking (for now) that I want to black-out the front end. I've been wondering if an early S10 airdam will fit under the bumper. Anyone tried it? An S10 airdam with fog lights would look great with a blacked-out CV front end. I was also wanting to make smoked plexi covers for the headlights...

[Vigo]

Simons got an s10 airdam on his van iirc, so i would say yes!

If not blacked out, the front end definitely needs to be some different color. If not black, maybe a darker grey.

[ShelGame]

Thanks again to Tim Costello. Picked up new window scrapers and channels for the van this afternoon. It's too cold to go back out and swap them in, but I think tomorrow will be a busy van day. Window seals, fenders, SBEC harness.

Actually, I may not do the fenders yet. They're a real PITA. I may wait until I can paint the front end black, since the front end basically has to come off to swap the fenders.

[RoadWarrior222]

Well if the paint is waiting for the warm, may as well get one more winter out of the old fenders and one less on the good ones.

[ShelGame]

Well, I'm not sure the fender will make it thru another winter. The rust spot grew exponentially last winter. I don't want to be repairing it all the way into the door jamb...

[RoadWarrior222]

Hose it with WD-40 once a month.

[Aries_Turbo]

have they salted yet up there?

if not, knock all that rust off, grind what you can get to, rust bullet it and cover the area with foil tape till spring. rust bullet works well.

Brian

[Vigo]

Yes, dont let that rust get anywhere near the door jamb if you can help it!

As for taking the front end off.. its WAY easier than on any of the cars, so why not? 4 screws on each side iirc. Way better than having to take the damn nuts off the INSIDE of the fender like on the cars.

[ShelGame]

Yes, dont let that rust get anywhere near the door jamb if you can help it!

As for taking the front end off.. its WAY easier than on any of the cars, so why not? 4 screws on each side iirc. Way better than having to take the damn nuts off the INSIDE of the fender like on the cars.

4 on the top, plus 1 inside the fender at the door, plus the headlight buckets, plus 2 in the lower air dam thingy, plus 2 in the bumper end covers (which are a PITA in thier own right sice it's bolted in from behind), and then there's the fender splash shields...

[AzShadow]

i like those wheels! whats the color called

[ShelGame]

Bronze? I dunno, I bought it at O'reilly's...

[RoadWarrior222]

BTW discovered "XO Rust" rust paint has a minimum application temperature of 5*C/41*F if you're looking for something to slap on now to protect stuff. Dunno how YMMV on that if you thin it out for the high density roller application method that folks have been using to get a good finish.

[ShelGame]

Swapped the window seals this afternoon. Got good seals in it now, no dry-cracking :thumb: Wasn't too difficult. Though, the pass side window is still really tough to roll up. I thought it was the old seal, but I guess it just needs adjustment. It only gets hard near the top. Any suggestions? It's so hard, I can't roll it up from the drivers seat. I have to get out and open the door to do it. My sons can't roll it up at all.

It's not the new seals, it's been this way from day 1...

[Vigo]

Have you tried simply lubing the tape-track thingy?

[ShelGame]

Have you tried simply lubing the tape-track thingy?

Well, no. I haven't tried anything :)

[135sohc]

Our 90 grand voyager had the sticking/very hard to close window problem also... Good cleaning and regreasing the mechanism inside the door worked well.

[blk86trbo]

Hey Rob, did you still want the maroon door panels? My wife is curious as to when I will be getting them out of the way LOL

[ShelGame]

Hey Rob, did you still want the maroon door panels? My wife is curious as to when I will be getting them out of the way LOL

Well, yes and no. I'd really like to re-do my door panels in matching fabric, but I doubt I'd ever actually have time to re-do them.

On the other hand, I'm supposed to be getting a bench seat from a guy over near you. Maybe we can combine the trip?

[Reeves]

Thanks again to Tim Costello. Picked up new window scrapers and channels for the van this afternoon.


Swapped the window seals this afternoon. Got good seals in it now, no dry-cracking :thumb:

Where'd you get the seals? How much?

Also, I have your parts. PM me.

[ShelGame]

Where'd you get the seals? How much?

Also, I have your parts. PM me.

From Tim Costellos van. He's parting it out. I gave him $100 for the hood, fenders, and seals. Check out the pics of the hood on the previous page, if you didn't see them already.

PMing you now...

[blk86trbo]

I'm supposed to be getting a bench seat from a guy over near you. Maybe we can combine the trip?

You're talking about the fold-out bed/bench seat from Gerry, right? Yeah, he lives about 45 minutes from me...are you heading out this way any time soon? I'd imagine he wouldn't mind if I drop the door panels off at his place (as long as they aren't lying around very long).

[ShelGame]

Yeah, I just don't know when I'm going to get the seat, yet. I had someone lined up to bring them over in exchange for the Daytona louvers I have, but we haven't worked out the details yet. Plus, I haven't paid for the seat yet.

[RoadWarrior222]

Ohhhh now I'm jealous, those convertabeds don't turn up very often.

[ShelGame]

Cool video...

http://www.youtube.com/v/uaG3QZKg6Ww?fs=1&hl=en_US

[Reeves]

http://www.youtube.com/v/uaG3QZKg6Ww?fs=1&amp

[ShelGame]

WTF? How do you get a video to embed?

Whatever, anyone know who that is? It's clearly a Chrysler mini, I can't tell if it's 1st or 2nd gen, though...

[Reeves]

Hmm....I can't figure out how to get it to work here either now.

[135sohc]

Taillights are 2nd gen.

[Vigo]

Definitely a 2nd gen but they're the same as far as everything he's doing goes.

I guess this is before there was 'david's farm'.

Seems pretty similar to the kit i linked on pg2, but of course if you already have the fab skills and the major pieces it possible you could build it like that for cheaper than the $215 the kit costs.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AIR-59520/?rtype=10

[RoadWarrior222]

I dunno, by the time you buy the bags @ $70 each, and the fittings, and $10 worth of rods and $20 worth of stock, you seem to be close to that number.

[ShelGame]

Since day 1, this van has had a couple of small electrical gremlins that I chalked to being a funky cluster and an old radio. Nothing I couldn't live with. And, I've been meaning to pull the cluster back out and re-flow the solder joints. Just haven't got a round tuit yet.

The 'check gauges' light is almost always on on the dash. The tach jumps around, too. And, occasionally, the radio would 'forget' it's presets and the time of day (but only on a cold startup, never while running).

So today, the gremlins stepped up their game. On the way to work (in the dark) the dash lights and gauges went out (except for the fuel gauge and oil pressure gauge - they seemed to still be working), the radio lost all power and the headlights went dim. I know the headlights were still lit, as I could see them reflecting on the shiny bumpers of the car in front of me at the light.

Here's where it gets funky - when I accelerate, the lights and dash come back full strength. Radio comes back on, heater fan comes back on. Until I get to cruising speed, then they all go back off. It's not RPM related, either. It's definitely acceleration related.

All thru this, the engine never missed beat, never hesitated, it was fine and kept running strong the whole time.

2nd funky point - When I got to work and turned the key off, the engine shutoff normally, and then all the dash lights and headlights came back to life. Maybe a bit dim still, hard to tell.

Here's what I think - since the entire interior loses power (dome lights, too, I checked); I think it must be either a power or ground connection gone bad. I'm guessing bulkhead connector. I can't think of anything else it could be. Anyone think of any other places I should check?

[ShelGame]

I'm thinking it must be a bad ground since the oil pressure and fuel level gauges still seemed to be working as did the brake warning lamp. I know the oil pressure is a 12V feed that is grounded at the engine. So, that would explain why it's still working. I'm pretty sure the brake warning is the same arrangement.

Just looking at the 50-way pinout for the van, I noticed that there are no ground lines in there. All of the grounds for the dash appear to go to one bolt (or stud, can't tell) on the LH side near the fuse box. I'm thinking this ground may be bad. Anyone know for sure where it is on the vans? The diagram makes it hard to tell. I'm wondering if the stud is broken or just loose? Got to find it...

[ShelGame]

OK, the gremlins are taking over. I got out to leave from work and the dash lights flickered as I opened the door (?!?).

If I turn the headlights on (without the key in the ignition), the fuel pump runs (!?!).

The van will start and run for about 3 seconds, then dies. Upon dying the rear washer pump starts running (!?!).

Gotta be the bulkhead connector, right?

[Reeves]

OK, the gremlins are taking over. I got out to leave from work and the dash lights flickered as I opened the door (?!?).

If I turn the headlights on (without the key in the ignition), the fuel pump runs (!?!).

The van will start and run for about 3 seconds, then dies. Upon dying the rear washer pump starts running (!?!).

Gotta be the bulkhead connector, right?

Wow...... That's crazy.

[RoadWarrior222]

I'm thinking that whatever ground the ignition switch is on is floating.....

.... Or some kids took it camping once and had an Ouija party inside when they got rained out or the tents.

[ShelGame]

Ok, just got done checking the bulkhead connector. It's tight.

Tested the headlights again - the headlight switch is definitely running the fuel pump somehow. If I unplug the ASD relay, the fuel pump still runs (?!?). Not sure how that's possible, but there must be a clue in there. I'm going to look at the wiring diagrams now.

Also, the upshift indicator flashes when you turn on the headlights. This light is only run by the SMEC - I'm not sure how it's getting power either.

If any of you wiring experts have any ideas, I'm open to them. My van (and me) are kind of trapped at work until I can figure this out.

[RoadWarrior222]

Ugh, short and burned wires somewhere I bet.

Check either side of the fusebox, unplug harnesses to lighting circuits one end or corner at once, to isolate short. Then work down the harness from there.

I was thinking there's no lighting through the tailgate hinge harness, but if you've got a brake light, go looking there first. It would be doing something like main head/tail circuit feeding through the brake filaments, which made a short in the light circuit which melted wires somewhere between fusebox and tailgate which "patched" the fuel pump into the lighting circuit...

[ShelGame]

If that were the case, then why no blown fuses? You'd think a short bad enough to melt wires would blow a fuse, no?

Ok, here's another tidbit from testing 5 minutes ago:

The radio loses all battery power when turning on the key to ignition run. Loses the presets, time, etc. However, if I turn it backwards to accessory (only), the radio does NOT lose the time or presets.

Can a bad ignition switch cause the ASD to cycle on the headlight switch?

What about a bad SMEC power board?

Now, keep in mind that the radio has been losing it's memory once a month maybe for a while now. It always seems to have happened on key-on (my assumption, since the time reads 12:00, and not some other time).

[RoadWarrior222]

On the fuse blowing.... it depends.... a short to a high power circuit can cause shorts and melties through part of a low power circuit without tripping it's fuse, or causing it to pull more through that circuits fuse. Also could have had shorts that basically bridge the fuse box.

Also I got a batch of cheap fuses (China where else) that did not blow with up to 3x rated current :eek:

[ShelGame]

OK, I don't think it can be the ignition switch. The power-on circuit is the same for both acc and run. So, there must be a problem somewhere else when the ignition is in 'run' that's causing the radio to lose power. There is a line from the charging system thru a fusible link on the run circuit.

Can a bad fusible link cause all this mayhem?

[ShelGame]

Hmm, I wonder if what I thought was the fuel pump is actually the rear washer pump. That does run in the 'run' position on the ignition switch, too. I wonder if the rear wiper combo switch has gone bad again...

[ShelGame]

Might just be time to part this beast out...

Found a PT Turbo near me that looks like a pretty good deal.

[ShelGame]

I took the headlight, rear wiper, and hatch release switches out, same deal on the ignition, radio, etc. except that the washer pump doesn't run anymore.

I don't have time for this...

[RoadWarrior222]

Tow it here, I'll give you $200 for it...

Looking for my manual to tell you where exactly to look...

[Reaper1]

Check the wires under the boot of the bulkhead connector in the engine bay. On my old van they were VERY corroded and I was amazed I still had power inside the van! You have to unbolt the connector, untape the boot and pull the boot back. It's not fun, but possibly worth a try.

Also, I know it sounds funny, but make sure none of the wires up front are chaffing or shorting. I had an instance on one of my cars where I had an intermittant short that would cause all kinds of stuff to not work. It was a very small knick in the sheilding of a wire for the running lights!

[ShelGame]

But I got stuff working when its not supposed to! Not sure how a corroded wire could cause that. Got to figure out how to get the beast home. Maybe it's a good time to swap in the SBEC harness...

[ShelGame]

Tow it here, I'll give you $200 for it...

Looking for my manual to tell you where exactly to look...

It would cost $200 just to get it there...

I've been looking at the wiring diagrams all day trying to figure out what it could be.

[Aries_Turbo]

grounds are my guess.

i put together a 1990 3.0L van harness/604 setup in a 88 reliant. when the one main ground to the body was intermittent, all sorts of wierd stuff would happen. the dome light would come on and off and other goofy stuff would turn on and the radio would do wierd things.

it was the ground near the battery with the ~8-10gauge wire. cleaned that up, moved the ground and it was perfect again.

brian

[RoadWarrior222]

Well I haven't got a complete enough diagram for the right year.

What I think is going on, is you've got shorts in one of two areas, possibly precipitated by shorts and melting wires in "minor" systems that caused something of a cascade failure.

If it's in the engine bay, it would be on the main positive supply line, the fusible links may be involved, if they look okay then it's further upstream from them, towards the bulkhead connector... might be a clue that you were getting slightly different behaviour after you messed with that. What you should be doing there is testing for a short between the headlamp supply and the ASD relay supply and/or outpur terminals, if you don't find an obvious melted clump first.

If it's not there. There's a 25way+ connector, I'm seeing it listed as the column connector, but it connects everything that comes down the A pillar, under the door jamb and goes to the back. Black/yellow from that should be the taillights, the fuel pump supply comes into that harness, but I can't find it on the 25 way connector I have a pinout of, which is the wrong year anyway so might be a different color. Anyway, wanna check for a short between that and the head/tail circuit. If you can unplug that and isolate the arse end of the vehicle and then have everything up front behave normal (apart from no fuel) then that will be a big clue. If you're getting continuity between pump and lamps, then it's gotta be somewhere between the connector up above the wheelarch there, and the fuel pump splitoff under the side panel behind the drivers seat.

Also check in that harness for short between the rear wipes, wash, and stop and tail circuit and rear defroster. Got a feeling something back there started it, one of those wires got hot and cheesewired through the insulation on others in that harness.

Anyway, the key to finding out what the hell is happening is to isolate things from each other as near the supply and/or fuses as possible then check for shorts in the harnesses, or leave them disconnected at multiway plugs and seeing if what's left still behaves screwy or not.

In the back harness though, if you find the fuel/lamp cross there, pull the fuses for the rear wash/wipe and defroster, and interior lighting until you get home.

I hope I'm wrong, you'll be looking at a frigging mess either way, and you'll be prizing clumps of melted wire apart with a butter knife, trying to figure which ones to wrap and save and which ones need splicing with new wire.

[turbovanman²]

Sorry, missed alot, :(

It has to be a ground, hence why you say hit the headlight switch and the turn signals flicker etc. I'll have a look at some diagram's and see if I can notice anything glaringly obvious.


Ohhhh now I'm jealous, those convertabeds don't turn up very often.

I want one soooooooooo bad.


I thinking (for now) that I want to black-out the front end. I've been wondering if an early S10 airdam will fit under the bumper. Anyone tried it? An S10 airdam with fog lights would look great with a blacked-out CV front end. I was also wanting to make smoked plexi covers for the headlights...

Yep, but no fog lights. I kept the stocker too.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/Canoncamerapics319.jpg




Actually, I may not do the fenders yet. They're a real PITA. I may wait until I can paint the front end black, since the front end basically has to come off to swap the fenders.

Fenders are actually pretty easy.

The SBEC harness is truly plug and play, I would do that over making an adapter. Did you get the fuel rail harness too?

[ShelGame]

If it's in the engine bay, it would be on the main positive supply line, the fusible links may be involved, if they look okay then it's further upstream from them, towards the bulkhead connector... might be a clue that you were getting slightly different behaviour after you messed with that.

I didn't really mess with it. Just checked that the bolt was tight. I had a hard time installing that 50-way and bolt when I converted this van to turbo and thought that it might have worked loose.

The thing that makes me think it must be a connection is that it would all go back to normal while accelerating. Plus, some of these symptoms have been around for many months. Just not this bad. I'm going to checkout the ground that Brian suggested.


Anyway, the key to finding out what the hell is happening is to isolate things from each other as near the supply and/or fuses as possible then check for shorts in the harnesses, or leave them disconnected at multiway plugs and seeing if what's left still behaves screwy or not.

That's certainly a good idea. I was kind of doing that by pulling the switches. But, the fuse will work, too. I'll give that a shot tomorrow at lunch. The van is still in my office parking lot.


Sorry, missed alot, :(

It has to be a ground, hence why you say hit the headlight switch and the turn signals flicker etc. I'll have a look at some diagram's and see if I can notice anything glaringly obvious.

Turn signals don't flicker, but the dash lights do, and the fuel pump (or possibly the rear washer pump) run.


The SBEC harness is truly plug and play, I would do that over making an adapter. Did you get the fuel rail harness too?

Yeah, if I make an adapter, it would be to run a SMEC using the SBEC harness, not the other way around. I do have the injector harness with it. I need to go and start re-wrapping it. The tape is a disaster on it.

[ShelGame]

grounds are my guess.

i put together a 1990 3.0L van harness/604 setup in a 88 reliant. when the one main ground to the body was intermittent, all sorts of wierd stuff would happen. the dome light would come on and off and other goofy stuff would turn on and the radio would do wierd things.

it was the ground near the battery with the ~8-10gauge wire. cleaned that up, moved the ground and it was perfect again.

brian

I know the ground wire you're talking about. It's right under the battery tray. I had to grind the metal a bit to get it clean (rusty from leaky batteries) and used a rust treatment primer and re-painted there. It may very well not be a very good ground. Or, it could have worked loose even. I'll check that tomorrow, too. Thanks for the tip.

[ShelGame]

Yep, but no fog lights. I kept the stocker too.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/Canoncamerapics319.jpg


Hmm, that's not the look I was hoping for. I want a spoiler that will fit under the bumper and wrap around to the fenders. Kind of cover up the whole lower chin completely like the GLH does. It looks like the S10 spoiler is too narrow to do that. It fits prefectly under the exsisting chin.

[turbovanman²]

Hmm, that's not the look I was hoping for. I want a spoiler that will fit under the bumper and wrap around to the fenders. Kind of cover up the whole lower chin completely like the GLH does. It looks like the S10 spoiler is too narrow to do that. It fits prefectly under the exsisting chin.

Yeah, I haven't really seen anything else over the years that would work. I guess you could make your own out of that garden grass moulding, :p

[Aries_Turbo]

you can cut the s-10 in the middle and use another section of s-10 straight stuff in the center to make it wider. attach with stainless rivets all industrial like. :)

Brian

[Reeves]

you can cut the s-10 in the middle and use another section of s-10 straight stuff in the center to make it wider. attach with stainless rivets all industrial like. :)

Brian

And you might as well, since they are only $7 at Rock Auto.

[RoadWarrior222]

Well then isn't it easier to buy two and cut 'em both 6" off center and splice in the middle.

[ShelGame]

Bucar gets the gold star!

It was the main body ground wire off the battery. The screw must've fallen out of it's rusty hole. I attached the wire to the same hole as the LH headlight ground and everything is back to normal again.

The funkyness must have been due to the floating ground wire. I would have thought that the ground loop would still go back thru the engine (since it has it's own dedicated ground strap back to the battery, and many straps to the body), but I guess not.

Thanks for the tip Brian!

[RoadWarrior222]

Really, wow. Grounds was my first thought, but then you seemed to be saying you went over them. Also prolonged dysfunction of systems is unusual, they usually just go haywire in a flash on and off kind of way rather than run for any time in odd ways, well that's all they've ever done to me anyway.

[Vigo]

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/Vigo327/Aviaryturbo-mopar-comPicture1.png

[Aries_Turbo]

no prob. :)

Brian

[ShelGame]

Really, wow. Grounds was my first thought, but then you seemed to be saying you went over them. Also prolonged dysfunction of systems is unusual, they usually just go haywire in a flash on and off kind of way rather than run for any time in odd ways, well that's all they've ever done to me anyway.

You know, I checked the main grounds in the interior harness (under the dash, the rear hatch area, etc.), since the engine kept running just fine. I assumed it must be one of those. It didn't occur to me (until Brian mentioned it and I looked at the harness layout diagrams) that the main body ground to the battery could do it to.

[ShelGame]

Had a bad day today. Think this will buff out?

28279282802828128282

My guess is that the van will be totalled. We'll see Monday...

I was in the right lane of the freeway. 19yo girl in the middle lane lost control and t-boned me. You can see the shape of her Mazda 6 front bumper in the side of my van.

[Aries_Turbo]

fricking bad drivers. that sucks.

well at least you dont have to worry about fixing rust. you have to worry about Vigo finding you a rust free texas van to swap your stuff into. :)

Brian

[Reeves]

That sucks man! Sorry to see and hear.

Hope you are ok?

[ShelGame]

Yeah, everyone is OK. Found a knot on my shin later in the day. Must've hit the window regulator.

[RoadWarrior222]

Great to hear, I was afraid you got your left leg busted up seeing the pic.


Edit: Shook up though? My wife was in a highway spinout last year and she was kinda nervy in general for a month or two and about driving with anyone but me for 5 or 6.

[Reaper1]

Friggin blows. Was it weather related or simply inexperience and stupidity?

[RoadWarrior222]

To me, weather related = she got shoved off course by a tornado that descended on top of her, all the rest is covered by inexperience and stupidity.

[ShelGame]

Friggin blows. Was it weather related or simply inexperience and stupidity?

Both. I wasn't paying attention to her until I saw her start to fishtail. The Mazda6 is FWD, so I guess maybe she was passing me and lost control when she steered into the center lane. It had been snowing, but the highway was just wet at that point as far as I could tell. I wasn't having tracion problem even with my near bald tires. She just about pushed me off the shoulder and over a 5-10' drop into a ditch on the side of the highway. I counter steered to stay out of the ditch and then ended up spun around in the center median.

I don't think she was doing anything particularly stupid, but she ccertaily didn't have a clue what to do once she started to lose control. I remember seeing her arms frozen at 10-2 as she drove into me...

[Vigo]

Weren't you trying to sell this thing anyway?

If so im not finding you another one. :p

But there ARE plenty of rust-free bodies down here. They're 99% v6 but realistically thats not a lot more work than anything else. Let me know.

[ShelGame]

Actually, it was sold. I took a $400 deposit on it the night before. Hopefully that helps me with the insurance company. He still wants the van, though (for less money, obviously). He's talking about getting OhioRob to help him fix the body work.

[RoadWarrior222]

Hopefully that helps me with the insurance company. Or at least not the opposite, they'll try anything to wriggle out. "Oh, that means he was the official owner and we were no longer liable"

[Vigo]

Yeh, im not sure how that can help you other than as motivation.

[turbovanman²]

Damn, that blows, and that always happens, lol, you sell something and sure as shitt, it gets wrecked or blown up.

If that was here, they'd write it off, they wanted to crush mine when I got rear ended, $2000 worth of bent metal, :(

[ShelGame]

I'm going to inquire about getting this van back from the buyer. Rob Pachner helped him do the repair work over a year ago, it wasn't painted the last time I saw it, but it might be now. If not this one, I know Rich has 4-5 other turbo vans he might part with...

[turbovanman²]

Sweet, why the change of heart?

[ShelGame]

Sweet, why the change of heart?

My company lease is expiring and I can't get nearly as sweet a deal as I have now. I'd rather have something fun and cheap, than expensive :)

[turbovanman²]

Gotcha and :partywoot:

[ShelGame]

Gotcha and :partywoot:

We'll see. I lost Rich's contact info. So, I'm waiting for Chuck Green to get back to me...

[Vigo]

Well, he either has vans or knows who has them. I think he got rid of all but one of his (or all of them?) but there was another guy in ohio hoarding up an entire stash of turbo minivans.

[ShelGame]

Well, he either has vans or knows who has them. I think he got rid of all but one of his (or all of them?) but there was another guy in ohio hoarding up an entire stash of turbo minivans.

That's the Rich guy I was talking about. He has like 7 vans now. Including Chucks Holatta, Moparules van, and Terry Ryan's van...

[Juggy]

i think he has bigPSI minivan as well....i thought his name was chuck something

[ShelGame]

i think he has bigPSI minivan as well....i thought his name was chuck something

That's Chuck Green. He sent me Rich's contact info, actually. As soon as I found out about my bonus, I'm giving him a call...