View Full Version : Always wondered... those damned DP bolts
I've never replaced a headgasket before. But I'm planning to freshen everything up soon... cleaned up intake, peak at the turbo and exhaust manifold, ported head, new hg.
But I have helped many people do them. How the hell do you get the inner-side to the swingvalve DP bolt on? The nut kept slipping off on me when I tried getting the bolt in. Is it an art, or does somebody make some neato tool for it?
-Bryan
tryingbe
05-17-2006, 12:29 PM
I brought one of these and installation was extremely easy.
http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=111_103&products_id=123
MiniMopar
05-17-2006, 12:48 PM
Yeah, I also just use the nut with the tab on both sides when I have them on hand. The Motormite (Help!) kit that use use comes with one bolt, one spring, and both types of nuts. In the past, I'd put the one with the tab on first and then use a box wrench to hold the other while I got the bolt started. The bolt should be long enough to capture the nut before tension builds on the spring.
WVRampage
05-18-2006, 01:03 AM
Same thing I used then the turbo I have now is treaded on the turbine side.
turbovanmanČ
05-18-2006, 02:05 AM
I do the hardest one first, use my fingers or a wrench.
So you have it apart now Bryan? Any damage you can see?
Ground Rat
05-18-2006, 04:03 AM
I also use the nut with the tab; it can still be a pain to put on by yourself.
BTW, most auto parts stores should sell them.
I do the hardest one first, use my fingers or a wrench.
So you have it apart now Bryan? Any damage you can see?
No, no. I'll be pulling it apart once I have $100 to port the spare head. I'll also need to get a set of PT lifters and new rockers. I'm actually debating whether or not to do that.
That's over $150 just in valvtrain work and parts that could be spent on a 2.4 oil and water pump. :thumb:
Hmm... what to do?
GLHSKEN
05-18-2006, 06:46 AM
Use a jack to hold the downpipe in place, then you are only fighting the nut not both the nut and pipe.
turbovanmanČ
05-18-2006, 12:30 PM
No, no. I'll be pulling it apart once I have $100 to port the spare head. I'll also need to get a set of PT lifters and new rockers. I'm actually debating whether or not to do that.
That's over $150 just in valvtrain work and parts that could be spent on a 2.4 oil and water pump. :thumb:
Hmm... what to do?
Why do you need new rockers-rollers last forever unless the wheels are pitted or the bearings are going. Just check them over and if good, reuse. As for the PT's, if your engine runs fine, leave them. I like them but if your resusing the stock springs, just leave your valve train alone and save your money.
TurboXT
05-18-2006, 06:07 PM
you can just get those bolts at autozone or w/e. in the HELP section
ShadowBrad
05-19-2006, 11:25 PM
I fought trying to hold that nut up there and get that bolt started for about an hour. I finally got fed up with it and just drilled the hole in the swingvalve larger and threaded it. :thumb:
Why do you need new rockers-rollers last forever unless the wheels are pitted or the bearings are going. Just check them over and if good, reuse. As for the PT's, if your engine runs fine, leave them. I like them but if your resusing the stock springs, just leave your valve train alone and save your money.
Because the spare head I have doesn't have lifters or rockers. I suppose I could swap them out real quick. I may just do that.
zshadow
05-21-2006, 07:34 AM
i put the nut in an open ended wrench with some tape on the other side so it doesnt fall out, then try and thread the bolt into the nut through everything.
what a pain in le a--
puppet
06-13-2006, 05:35 PM
Fighting with the springs adds to the fun. I got smart last time and compressed the springs in a clamp and threaded a couple lengths of thin wire through the bolt hole tying the wire outside the spring on opposite sides. The wires held the spring compressed till I had the nuts started. Snipped the wire after that.
inmyshadow
06-13-2006, 09:00 PM
I have two ways of doing it. Either I put the downpipe onto the turbo, before I put the head on the car.
Or I use tired springs. This way I'm not fitting the tabbed nut and a new spring.
later
5sp. mini
06-13-2006, 10:43 PM
dave i got a bent wrench that i use i hit the nut with the mini tortch till hot then turn it right off. i will try to reme,ber it for wesday. did you get the locks off? al
Lee'sdaytona
06-13-2006, 11:18 PM
anyone know if its a smart idea to shoot it with liquid wrench a few days in advance, than take a wrentch and let it sit up top against the SV, and take an impact wrench to get those bolts loose? Good idea or not?
-Lee
I did this last night and learned a few more "things".
I. 2.5" SV is MUCH tighter in that area than a 2.25"!!!
II. DAMN L-bodies are SMALL!
III. You can loose those bolts/springs in WEIRD places when everything falls apart.
IV. The kit TU sells is TOP NOTCH compared to the "Help" kits Ive used in the past.
V. To use the nut/tab combo w/ 2.5" SV on the drivers side you have to bend the tab down about 30 degrees, otherwise it interfers with the support bolt/strap.
VI. Damn do my arms hurt after wrestling all that crap around for an hour.
Oh, and one trick I learned when removing old ones: Plasma cutter is your friend. :)
tryingbe
06-14-2006, 02:03 AM
I used electronic impact and the nuts came flying out. :)
5sp. mini
06-14-2006, 06:46 AM
best bet for us up here in the salt''' belt is a little heat and the nut them remove. i,ve had tab,s that rounded off up here if they are removed yearly they will work but after that it pot luck lol AL
contraption22
07-05-2006, 10:19 PM
I made up studs for my swingvalve:) I'll never have to fight those bolts ever again!!!!!!!
Garret
07-05-2006, 11:33 PM
Yep nothing like tapping threads into the swing valve when the turbo is out :) then a quick lil tack weld on there and it never comes loose
I used electronic impact and the nuts came flying out. :)
haha best part of the thread there.
Anyways, I'll be trying my hand at this by myself probally Tuesday.
BadFastGTC
07-12-2006, 10:27 AM
I put 8mm heli-coils in mine. No nuts required.
Subliminal
07-12-2006, 10:41 AM
I've been very successful with the cheapies from the normal auto store in the HELP! section. Put a little neverseize on the threads when you install the new ones and you're good.
Now that the car is in the hands of an 'enthusiast', there isn't going to be enough time between removals for those bolts to gum up anyway. ;)
Well I got the outer SV bolt off fine (turns out I cracked it in half right at the nut, didn't even know it) and here was the fun part, the inner-SV nut stripped out, so I had to go in through the tunnel with a cut off wheel and cut it off... After 4 charges of the air tank I finally got it out.
What fun!
cordes
07-12-2006, 03:17 PM
I have found that the 2.5in. SV and .63 AR housing provide for some very tight clearances no matter what type of nut you use. I have taken a dremel and cut staright across the top of the flage were the down pipe bolts to on the turbine housing side. I make that side about 2/3rds of the origionall thinkness. That makes it much easier to get the nut/metal piece up there and actually hold it while attaching the spring and bolt. No problems thus far doind that.
tryingbe
07-12-2006, 06:52 PM
I can bolt bolts/nuts on or off no problem in my GLH. But I use high temperature anti-seize on them.
I have found that the 2.5in. SV and .63 AR housing provide for some very tight clearances no matter what type of nut you use. I have taken a dremel and cut staright across the top of the flage were the down pipe bolts to on the turbine housing side. I make that side about 2/3rds of the origionall thinkness. That makes it much easier to get the nut/metal piece up there and actually hold it while attaching the spring and bolt. No problems thus far doind that.
Can you go into more detail about this? Or better send me a few pics?? sirusvi@yahoo.com Same setup here.
cordes
07-12-2006, 10:10 PM
Here is a pic that I tried to outline the part I cut away the best I could. Obviously you would want to cut on the other side since it is for clearance between the .63 housing and the SV. I hope the pic helps.
Also, I took the pic from TU's website. If that is a problem let me know.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/untitled4.jpg
Cordes - by the way what is your real name, anyways? :D I didn't cut the SV, actually I forgot... oops. But I install the downpipe, luckily enough when I put the head on it fell right onto the downpipe. The outer SV bolt was no problem, yet the inner I couldn't get the nut on. There's no physical way a nut will fit there. The threads from the bolt were actually hitting the SV.
So I tightened the best I could but I know it's not tight enough, it's loud as hell now. Not just slighty louder, it's beastly. Maybe it could be just b/c of the .63 housing allowing more exhaust flow and the open DP but that's just my theory behind it. Well anyways, the bracket that attaches the DP to the SV sits -----eyed, you think it'll be okay?
puppet
07-19-2006, 10:34 AM
It's gonna leak. Using the nut/flange you'll need to grind that nut down almost in half (thickness). ...and/or contour that nut to fit around the turbine housing. If you didn't do this and have a 2.5" SW w/.63 housing it's probably cross threaded and just holding on now by two threads. A few MickeyD's speedbumps will take care of that.
Shorten the bolt on that side too.
It's gonna leak. Using the nut/flange you'll need to grind that nut down almost in half (thickness). ...and/or contour that nut to fit around the turbine housing. If you didn't do this and have a 2.5" SW w/.63 housing it's probably cross threaded and just holding on now by two threads. A few MickeyD's speedbumps will take care of that.
Shorten the bolt on that side too.
Ah, what a pita!
cordes
07-20-2006, 01:40 AM
I just reattached my 3" DP tonight to a turbo with a .63 hot side and no grinding mod on the SV like I had mentioned before.
I had the car pretty far up in the air. I also had the pass side wheel off at the time which gave me more room.
I made the flange ----eyed like you said, but on the drivers side so that I could do that one first. I had my feet sticking out the pass side of the car, I had my right arm over the K-frame to hold the SV bolt/spring, and I used my other arm between the oil pan and the axle to put the nut up on the SV. It was actually pretty easy once I got myself contorted properly. Of course it took about 1 hr. to get that figured out.
Once I had that one started, it was no problem to start the other side, and then tighten them both down equally.
Good luck.
I just reattached my 3" DP tonight to a turbo with a .63 hot side and no grinding mod on the SV like I had mentioned before.
I had the car pretty far up in the air. I also had the pass side wheel off at the time which gave me more room.
I made the flange ----eyed like you said, but on the drivers side so that I could do that one first. I had my feet sticking out the pass side of the car, I had my right arm over the K-frame to hold the SV bolt/spring, and I used my other arm between the oil pan and the axle to put the nut up on the SV. It was actually pretty easy once I got myself contorted properly. Of course it took about 1 hr. to get that figured out.
Once I had that one started, it was no problem to start the other side, and then tighten them both down equally.
Good luck.
The threads were actually hitting the SV. There's a physical impossibilty to attach a nut to that. :confused: I'll get a pic. I may have to retry it b/c it's pretty fruckin loud with the DP hanging off the SV a little.
puppet
07-20-2006, 10:42 AM
The flange on that 3" SW must be a little lower for you to have pulled that off cordes. I've got a similar set-up to Bryan's and the nut will not fit in between the turbine housing and the SW flange flat over the hole. The bolt will also hit the turbine housing before it's tight.
Bryan, you'll have to pre-compress that spring too. I clamp 'em and use thin tie wire to hold them compressed. Then you can at least get the bolt started.
... just had a thought. You might be ahead if you can drill and tap an 1/8-3/16" thick flat plate instead of the nut ginding. You'll still have to shape that a little for fit. Slip that on top and mark it through the flange. Doing it this way may gain you a thread or two back for holding power.
It doesn't bother me honestly. I capped up the cut out today and ran an open exhaust. Don't even hear the leak. :confused: If it's leaking that can only mean one thing: GO FASTER!
:thumb:
puppet
07-21-2006, 12:43 AM
Heh, ... that and a black engine compartment :P
Well I took the head off again and tried boring out the inner-SV hole so I better slide the bolt in and then attach the nut, but it didn't work. Actually the bolt fell out!! haha Ah man it's so loud with the DP hanging on by one bolt. Don't know what to do now.
BIG PSI
08-09-2006, 08:46 AM
Why don't you get in touch with Cindy or Chris and get the SPECIAL BOLTS that makes the job eaiser. If you hogged out the one hole you would have to place washers top and bottom on the swing valve.
Dad
GLHSKEN
08-09-2006, 09:07 AM
Guy's Use a jack or jack stand to hold the back end up Start the passenger side and the drivers side gets much easier.
tryingbe
08-09-2006, 10:01 AM
Used my electronic impact on a rusted downpipe bolts and nuts at junkyard last weekend.
Takes all 10 seconds. :) Just be careful and don't let the downpipe come flying down and hit your head.
Ken told me long ago to use a jack for it. I did every time. Helps a bunch. But with a 2.5" SV and .63 turbine housing combo, it's nearly impossible to do the driver's side bolt.
Bubba
08-09-2006, 12:38 PM
Ken told me long ago to use a jack for it. I did every time. Helps a bunch. But with a 2.5" SV and .63 turbine housing combo, it's nearly impossible to do the driver's side bolt.
Ahhh quit your b****ing..it's not that hard ;)
Ahhh quit your b****ing..it's not that hard ;)
*cries*:(
Lee'sdaytona
08-09-2006, 09:56 PM
Ah man it's so loud with the DP hanging on by one bolt. Don't know what to do now.
turn the engine off:nod: :thumb:
-Lee
:lol: ^
Well a few months later and I pulled the head off for the last time. I ran a 10x1.5 tap down the the SV. Now, should I try to find some studs for it, or just use a common long bolt with a nut on the end, or.... take it with me to OhioRob's and ask him so nicely to spot weld the studs in it?
johnl
12-05-2006, 01:24 PM
With the 3" SV in an L body this problem IS real.
The space between the SV casting and the turbine is absolutely minimum. Now that I hear of it, I like GTC's idea of helicoils, although it would be a pita if there was a salt/long time between assembly and disassembly and a bolt froze and broke off. Mopar probably figured that with a nut, the bolt could be cut and the nut will fall out.
So -
1. Always use the high temp - 2000* anti seize when assembling
2. Substitute two 10mm exhaust nuts on the top side
3. With a big SV, grind some to make clearance for 10mm box wrench
4. Make a tool - grind/thin the box end of a cheap 10mm box wrench too
5. Not all swing valve bolts/springs are the same, get the right combo - easy.
mock_glh
12-05-2006, 05:09 PM
Here's what I do. When the turbo is on the WORKBENCH you grind a dimple into the turbine housing (not too deep!) and maybe grind down the top of the SV on the driver's side. This is especially necessary if you're using a TU 3" SV.
Grind until you can start the nut of your choice while holding it with a box end wrench. A piece of paper will keep the nut from falling out of the wrench when you do it in the car. Once the nut is started you'll need to use the open end of the wrench (or it will be stuck when the bolt is all in). I use a manifold nut (10mm hex) with my 3" SV. All this is easier if you use a jack to hold the pipe in place first. And put the passenger side bolt in first.:thumb:
contraption22
01-22-2007, 02:48 PM
This work was all done with the swingvalve off the car
I tapped the swingvalve holes for 3/8-16 thread. Got some stainless steel all thread from McMaster-Carr to make some studs, as well as some top-locking 3/8 stainless nuts. Thread the studs into the holes, and lock in place with some nuts on top. Grind the nut down on the turbine housing side until you have adequate clearance, but are still able to get a wrench around it if you ever wanna take it off. Dad made me up some sleeves the same diameter and length of the shoulder on the OE bolts out of some SS bar stock. I use the OEM springs, slide them on with the sleeve inside them, then put on SS washer and SS nut. Works great, no headaches.
Good idea, Mike. I am using studs on the SV now, I didn't install them, however, because it was at Rob's house when I blew up cylinder 1. It should be much easier to deal with now, I'll let you know when I do it myself.
Aries_Turbo
01-24-2007, 08:31 PM
i just tack welded a nut on the drivers side and gooped the crap out of it with antisieze. no issues here.
Brian
Orangetona
01-28-2007, 09:41 PM
My method of putting them back on:
Take the bolt and spring and put them on, take a long extension and a small jack and jack the bolt right in. It should push through enough to just thread the nut right on. The first time I did it I used the extension and pushed with my arm and threaded the nut on... and my right arm was TOAST lol. So I learned to use a jack afterwards.
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