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contraption22
12-27-2005, 08:33 PM
I'm debating getting S2 w/out toys for my '04. Basically i would like to have a solid 13 sec daily driver without having to put race gas in it. Right now i have S1 and a Mopar catback. I have read in more than one place that the S2 doesn't make any more power than S1 unless you click it into High Octane Mode. Anybody have experience with this?

Keito
12-27-2005, 10:26 PM
I bought 2 w/o toys a little over a month ago just because I got a smokin'
deal. I got it used for $550. (Add $25 for reprogram.)
I never had Stage 1, and unfortunetly the track closed before I could
run it. All I can say is after I installed it and tighted up the IC hoses,
it will fry the tires in second gear.
Temp was about 50 degrees the last time I ran it, and it would boost a
solid 15psi to 5500.
I realy wish I could of had the toys since ther is 100 octane avail.
local and I like to take it to the track once in a while.
I'm thinking of buying a used toys pcm, and adding the aftermarket toys
the guy on SRT forums is selling.
I would have rather had Stage 3, but since my wife is 8.5 months pregnant,
I thought that would have pushed the envelope.
I'm sure GLHS has a better opinion since I think he's had all three
stage kits.

TurboGLH
12-28-2005, 01:04 AM
I'd like to hear more feedback as well. I've got about $850 bucks saved up, with $200 going to a local guy for a used 3" dp and side exit. I'm torn about what to do with the other $650. I've been looking at maybe putting together a a nitrous system, but I'm not sure what I'm going to do right now.

TurboGLH
12-29-2005, 09:54 PM
If anyone with some stage 2 toys experience could post I appreciate it. I'm talking to a guy right now for a straight of trade, stage 1 and some RC-750's for his stage 2 toys setup. I don't know where to go at this point, should I get the stage 2 or should I get a nitrous kit? Any feedback would be appreciated.

contraption22
12-30-2005, 02:02 AM
If I was in your posistion Chris, and willing to use N20, i wouldnt bother with S2 at all, let alone with toys. Jet for an extra 25 hp, and be done with it! And with nitrous, you probably wouldnt want to use the high octane mode anyway. All it does is advance the timing significantly, exactly what you don't want to do with nitrous.

TurboGLH
12-30-2005, 10:07 AM
It turns out that it doesn't matter anyways. I wasn't fast enough and another guy got it. I would have liked to get the kit and skiped the nitrous setup, I would just feel better about not having to keep filling the bottle to get the car where I want but I guess I'm back to looking for a nitrous kit.

ScottD
12-30-2005, 10:28 AM
There was a large thread on SRTForums about stage 2.

Painfully I read through it.

My conclusions were that the Stage 2 definitely adds power. It is hard to tell how much though since the postings were all about track times and not dyno results, and as we all know the variables with drivers, track, temp, etc are many.

However, it seemed that the cars in the thread that were Stage 2 w/o toys were trapping 102-103mph, and usually with driver error MPH is still pretty consistent.

I've been saving up for Stage 2 w/o toys. In my opinion the intercooler sprayer and high octane modes are neat, but they only add 15hp or so, and my car is 99% street driven, so realistically how often would I use that? Rather than spend the extra $800 on the toys, I'd rather use some of those funds for upgrading the exhaust.

Scott

CSX321
12-30-2005, 11:16 AM
I have never regretted getting S2 w/toys. I went from S0 to S2, and there was just a huge difference. With nothing but S2 in HOM and the Mopar cat-back, I was trapping 105-106 (with possible boost leaks). In a 3000 lb. car, that means it's putting about 285 hp to the wheels. Instead of the sprayer, a big intercooler would probably be just as effective at keeping the charge cool.

After some suspension changes, I ran 13.3 @ 103.something on street tires. The only power modifications were still just S2 in HOM and the Mopar cat-back. Stock plugs, wires, intake, and paper filter.

contraption22
12-31-2005, 09:31 AM
However, it seemed that the cars in the thread that were Stage 2 w/o toys were trapping 102-103mph, and usually with driver error MPH is still pretty consistent.



Wow... my last trip to the track netted me a 102.95mph trap speed. And that was with only S1 and the Mopar Catback. Maybe I will hold off.

bill2
12-31-2005, 11:27 PM
I don't think i'd suggest s2 without toys, unless you were getting a smoking deal.

Basically i would like to have a solid 13 sec daily driver without having to put race gas in it.
I have a hard time believing this is your "final" goal :p . If somewhere in the back of your head your thinking "buy stage 2 now, and upgrade to 3 later", i would really suggest toys. For the dial-a-boost and hom (not the ic sprayer!). I use the dial a boost more than i thought i would with s2, so i'd image its very practical with s3. Of course if the hahn port fueler and 16/20g combos were available last spring thats what would be on my car now.

ScottD
01-01-2006, 01:39 AM
Here's the thread I was referencing. I was reading it again tonight. MPHs are all over the map. Some really high, some really low. Majority of posters had S2 w/ toys, but there were quite a few without toys.

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56167&page=6&pp=15

In reading, seems like the cars with the better MPHs also had exhaust upgrades.

ScottD
01-01-2006, 09:33 AM
Mike,

I just re-read your post. I thought your car had run a best of 101mph. Did you recently add the cat-back exhaust and did that bump you up another MPH?

Scott

contraption22
01-01-2006, 02:34 PM
I went to the track in October and clicked off a 14.10 @ 102.95mph with no other changes. 2.2 60 ft time.

CSX321
01-01-2006, 04:49 PM
S1 to S2 comparison... Mike, didn't you run 13.7 on slicks with S1 and stock exhaust? I ran 13.3 on street tires with S2 and the Mopar cat-back. I feel pretty confident I could run 12.8 or 12.9 on slicks with this setup. (But in high-octane mode.)

turbovanmanČ
01-01-2006, 05:22 PM
Pardon my ignorance but what are "toys"?

bill2
01-01-2006, 06:44 PM
Pardon my ignorance but what are "toys"?
-Intercooler Sprayer

-Dial-A-Boost Switch
Manage boost on demand by adjusting the 4-position thumb wheel located on the Turbo Toys bezel.

-High-Octane Fuel Switch
Fill the tank with 100 (R+M)/2 octane unleaded fuel, press the red switch located on the Turbo Toys bezel, and discover instant torque and power gains. The PCM will increase spark advance and adjust fueling to take full advantage of the 100 octane unleaded fuel. The red indicator lamp will illuminate when High Octane Mode is active. During High Octane Mode operation, the PCM prevents damaging detonation via the OEM knock detection system. High Octane Mode will be bypassed if damaging knock is detected.

turbovanmanČ
01-01-2006, 07:26 PM
^^^Thank you.

glhs727
01-01-2006, 09:22 PM
I have the s2 with toys and love it, but I also have a lot of other mods. I haven't taken it to the track since I put the s2 kit on, mostly because only recently have I been driving the car as a daily driver. I plan to park the srt-4 again for a few months because I am limiting myself to 10k miles per year.
If anyone needs a used s2 w/o toys computer let me know, I have a couple and can program in your vin #
Later,
Cindy

contraption22
01-01-2006, 10:29 PM
S1 to S2 comparison... Mike, didn't you run 13.7 on slicks with S1 and stock exhaust? I ran 13.3 on street tires with S2 and the Mopar cat-back. I feel pretty confident I could run 12.8 or 12.9 on slicks with this setup. (But in high-octane mode.)


Yup, Actually I think my best on slicks is 13.6, but i cannot remember if i had the catback on yet or not.

TurboGLH
01-02-2006, 12:40 AM
I read through the whole thread that was posted above, and it seems like you can trap anywhere between 103-108, with the same parts. Thats such a large range, and it seems to be totaly random. Sigh, I really want a stage 2 setup, but I just can't convince myself that it's worth the risk. I've got a wideband on the way and I picked up my exhaust this afternoon, maybe I'll just buy a intercooler and see what she'll do.

Aries_Turbo
01-02-2006, 02:16 AM
id get the toys mike cause you can simulate the racegas mode with an inexpensive alky injection setup for even more power. you can get denatured alky at walmart if need be. :)

Brian

Andre Parker
01-02-2006, 01:42 PM
It seems like they should trap alot higher than that. I have ran a 13.68 on my stock 04 and I trap anywhere from 99-104mph. The outside air temp really plays alot on my cars trap speed.

BadAssPerformance
01-02-2006, 07:50 PM
I'm debating getting S2 w/out toys for my '04. Basically i would like to have a solid 13 sec daily driver without having to put race gas in it. Right now i have S1 and a Mopar catback. I have read in more than one place that the S2 doesn't make any more power than S1 unless you click it into High Octane Mode. Anybody have experience with this?

One of the local guys, Ralph, has a blue SRT-4 (you might remember him/it from Blackhawk Farms Raceway during SDAC-14?) and now has S1 and a Forge Motorsports actuator on it (maybe 17psi?) and it went 13.6 at 106mph with pump gas on radials at SDAC-15 in the ~100F temp...

TurboGLH
01-03-2006, 04:31 PM
Well I don't know about mike, but I decided to pass on stage 2. I find it hard to invest $700-$1200 on something that seems to have such a wide range of results. I found a large AIS intercooler f/s for $350 and I figure that and the exhaust are a good set of upgrades on top of my stage 1. I'd still like to hear your impressions on stage 2 if you end up getting it mike.

Keito
01-03-2006, 05:25 PM
I think most of it depends on the driver.
Also, I would guess most people arn't looking for boost leaks, I know
I didn't last year and it shows.
Stock I went 13.87@ 100
With drag radials and an open downpipe I went 13.52@100
When I tested for leaks AFTER the track had closed, I coulden't even
hold 5psi because my turbo outlet hose was so loose.
My MPH showed it too, obviously.

psi chick
01-04-2006, 02:03 AM
i have quite a bit of experience with s2, so i'll give you my input on this one as well.

i went from s0 to s2 w/toys. i never dynoed s0 so i don't have a baseline, but my last dyno with s2 was 274hp/302tq on pump gas. race gas would have put me near the 300hp mark. to get these numbers, i had a maxxfab o2 housing and dp, borla 2.5" exhaust, ipp cai, and ltb. that's all i had at that point. i spiked 21psi and held 19psi to redline. i was on the s2 wga and had no mbc.

as for track times, i never got a good run on s2 because i had some severe tranny problems which prevented me from running good times. my traps were always in the 106-108 area even though my times were 13.1-13.3 usually (3rd gear synchro and a fork were shot, made shifting kinda difficult). i could have done a 12.8 in her if i had a properly working tranny, that i'm sure of. i ran dr's btw.

s2 will hold hom using w/i. so no need for race gas on a regular basis. if going to the track you might want to throw some torco in there for good measure, but it's not completly necessary. the toys make a HUGE difference. when i first dynoed s2 i saw about a 20hp difference by pushing that red button. the biggest difference though is in the butt dyno. the car just pulls a lot harder than on pump gas. the difference is clearly seen in track times as well.

personally, i don't think that s2 w/o toys is worth it. and i don't think that s2 w/toys is worth it if you're not willing to spend the time to tune it. they say it's all plug and play, and it is to a certain extent, but you do need to fiddle with it to get everything set just right.

contraption22
01-04-2006, 12:26 PM
i have quite a bit of experience with s2, so i'll give you my input on this one as well.

i went from s0 to s2 w/toys. i never dynoed s0 so i don't have a baseline, but my last dyno with s2 was 274hp/302tq on pump gas. race gas would have put me near the 300hp mark. to get these numbers, i had a maxxfab o2 housing and dp, borla 2.5" exhaust, ipp cai, and ltb. that's all i had at that point. i spiked 21psi and held 19psi to redline. i was on the s2 wga and had no mbc.

as for track times, i never got a good run on s2 because i had some severe tranny problems which prevented me from running good times. my traps were always in the 106-108 area even though my times were 13.1-13.3 usually (3rd gear synchro and a fork were shot, made shifting kinda difficult). i could have done a 12.8 in her if i had a properly working tranny, that i'm sure of. i ran dr's btw.

s2 will hold hom using w/i. so no need for race gas on a regular basis. if going to the track you might want to throw some torco in there for good measure, but it's not completly necessary. the toys make a HUGE difference. when i first dynoed s2 i saw about a 20hp difference by pushing that red button. the biggest difference though is in the butt dyno. the car just pulls a lot harder than on pump gas. the difference is clearly seen in track times as well.

personally, i don't think that s2 w/o toys is worth it. and i don't think that s2 w/toys is worth it if you're not willing to spend the time to tune it. they say it's all plug and play, and it is to a certain extent, but you do need to fiddle with it to get everything set just right.


Thank you for that reply. I'm aware that when switched into high octane mode, S2 will yeild significant gains. However unless you order an S2 "with toys", there is no "High Octane Mode" switch. I also understand that you can use High Octane Mode on pump gas if you use water injection, but that adds even more expense to an already over-priced kit.

psi chick
01-04-2006, 12:30 PM
so if you want to be cheap about it there are ways to do that too. get a used s2 w/toys ecu and have it reflashed. get a hom switch kit when it's released from n2mb and get a w/i kit (a whole $250). about $600-700 and you basically have a s2 w/toys that will run hom whenever you want.

i'm really not sure what you're looking for here. it seems that you're more looking for an excuse NOT to get s2 rather than reasons for getting it.

contraption22
01-04-2006, 12:45 PM
so if you want to be cheap about it there are ways to do that too. get a used s2 w/toys ecu and have it reflashed. get a hom switch kit when it's released from n2mb and get a w/i kit (a whole $250). about $600-700 and you basically have a s2 w/toys that will run hom whenever you want.

i'm really not sure what you're looking for here. it seems that you're more looking for an excuse NOT to get s2 rather than reasons for getting it.

SUBJECT LINE: Debating S2 w/o toys.

My original intention was to find out what kind of performance people were getting out of their S2 WITHOUT toys kits. As it turns out, S2 without toys seems to be only BARELY faster if faster at all than I am right now with S1.

I'm not wanting to be cheap about it. I want invisible modifications. I also want easily removable modifications in case I decide to sell the vehicle or return it to stock. I also think it's pretty rediculous in this day and age to need race gas to make 300hp out of a 2.4L DOHC turbocharged engine. The fact that the "toys" kits are overpriced are not the main reason for my exclusion of toys... but it doesn't help any.My SRT-4 is not a Honda, so it's hard to justify 1 tenth and 1mph for $800 or 3/10 and 3mph for 1300. I already HAVE a race car which i want to see in the 10's in the 2006 season, and that gets the larger portion of my fun budget.

psi chick
01-04-2006, 06:25 PM
s2 w/o toys is a waste of money. the toys are what make the kit.

having a race car, you should know that it takes money to go fast, and just because the srt is cheap doesn't mean that it's not going to cost anything to get it faster. i don't know what other car can give you factory support that will give you a 12s car with a 4-stage boost controller and timing switch for $1300. in the over all sceme of things, that's nothing. i know what it's like to build a high hp car, and i know the money that it takes to get there. we're in the middle of building our mustang, should be 700hp and do 9's when all is said and done, so i'm well aware of what that takes. the srt is cheap, but if you want reliable performance you need to spend money just like with anything else.

if you don't want to get the s2 kit then just do a s1/wga/mbc with some supporting mods and call it a day.

shadow88
01-04-2006, 09:28 PM
I'm really sorry for the long response in advance. A buddy of mine has had drag strip times to go with the chatter here. Stage 1 best time 113.95 at 103 on a hot day that was pretty humid too. he already had a 2.5 inch downpipe and a larger fmic. He bought a stage 2 with toys, ran a best of 13.42 at 107 in similar weather and the usual for srt-4's massive wheel hop. with 105 octane gas and slightly better weather and high octane switch on ran 13.36 at 108. My views on the toys are this. The intercooler sprayer is only good for leaving puddles, The high octane switch with 94 octane gas pings like crazy and doesn't adjust ignition timing. (just like the smec's) The 4 position switch's advantage over having no switch is full boost in first gear. Translation - MASSIVE wheel hop. High octane sets ignition timing to 35 deg. BTDC. It seems to take a HUGE sensor output from the knock sensor to kick it out of high octane mode. btw the adjustable wga is set to spike at 20 psi and settle at 18. I can't believe you read this whole thing.-jaim

CSX321
01-05-2006, 11:03 AM
The intercooler sprayer is only good for leaving puddles,
Even when it's just parked in the driveway. :lol: Mine's doing that again. :(

MattD
01-06-2006, 08:00 PM
First post....
Unless you will be running race gas, dont get with toys. A big fmic will do the same if not better then the ugly mopar intercooler sprayer. You would think for $1300, mopar could've came up with a design a tad better then random wires and tubes.

boostinhardsrt
01-18-2006, 07:26 PM
Stage 2 without toys definately rips, thats for sure. I acctually ordered it with toys, but I am not going to install toys because to me it really isnt worth it now. So, I'm just going to get a boost controller with that money. Right now in the cold weather we have here about 20-30 degrees daily i boost like 12ish cuz its super cold and i tear up all of 1st(of course) and all of second, and my buddy has stage 2 spiking 19 psi and holding like 17 and its really quick. His only other mods are intake. So, it's really up to you, but in my opinion its worth it. With or without toys is up to you.

Keito
01-19-2006, 10:09 AM
Stage 2 without toys definately rips, thats for sure. I acctually ordered it with toys, but I am not going to install toys because to me it really isnt worth it now. So, I'm just going to get a boost controller with that money. Right now in the cold weather we have here about 20-30 degrees daily i boost like 12ish cuz its super cold and i tear up all of 1st(of course) and all of second, and my buddy has stage 2 spiking 19 psi and holding like 17 and its really quick. His only other mods are intake. So, it's really up to you, but in my opinion its worth it. With or without toys is up to you.


X2
I went from stock to Stage 2 W/O, and it's a huge difference, between night and day. I wish I had track times to back it up, local track doesen't open up till April 15th.

boostinhardsrt
01-19-2006, 10:52 AM
i believe from reading on the srtforums that people are running like 13.3 and lower with stage 2. of course this varies with driver, and slick and other mods.