Wheel Hop GRRR!

[jre97]

Where do I start to get rid of the wheel hop? My car wheel hops worse than any other car I've ever seen.

[turbovanman²]

Do you have poly suspension bushings? what about PB or MP motor mounts? is your bobble strut worn out?

With PB control arm and sway bar bushings, MP right and front mounts, stock and PB tranny mount, NO wheel hop.

[t3rse]

first check and make sure your front motor mount isn't 90* off, that will make bad wheel hop (i know from experience). bad bobble as mentioned above will as well. I made a solid front motor mount for my car and made an adjustable bobble strut (piece of pipe with all-thread welded to the cap with a poly bushing and some nuts), and that effectively eliminated ALL of my wheel hop.

[LynX853]

if you get softer front suspension it will eliminate it according to my power and performance text book.

[turbovanman²]

if you get softer front suspension it will eliminate it according to my power and performance text book.

I think you have that backwards. A softer front end will let the wheel bounce, :banghead:

[LynX853]

hmmm... cause now my intrest is peaked im looking this up right now and gonna type whats in the book... dont report me to the copy right office! =P

*Front wheel drive Shock Selection
*Front wheel drive cars with wheelie bars use a soft rear shock to allow the wheelie bars to limit squat and keep weight on the front tires.
*Front wheel drive cars without wheelie bars use stiffer shocks and springs in the rear to limit weight transfer.
*Front wheel drive cars will use the softest front shock possible that will allow traction without wheel hop.
*Since this is a relatively new style of racing, engineering and parts are evolving rapidly, cheak with your suspension manufacturer for the latest advancements in this technology.

I just got that straight from the book, not saying your wrong Simon, but it makes sence to me... cause with a softer shock, (or strut) it would absorb the bounce of the wheel and keep it planted.... im sure low profile tires also have a part in this problem too. im open to oppinions and expirances with this subject.:thumb:

[turbovanman²]

No problem, discussions are great.

I agree with some of what the book says, I would say hard in the front with no wheelie bars as you want the front end NOT to lift when you launch. I have a very hard front end and have no wheel hop issues. Also, it launches pretty good on slicks but Boyd, the Gold cheap Omni would be the one to talk to, he gets consistant 1.7 60 ft times.

[jre97]

first check and make sure your front motor mount isn't 90* off, that will make bad wheel hop (i know from experience). bad bobble as mentioned above will as well. I made a solid front motor mount for my car and made an adjustable bobble strut (piece of pipe with all-thread welded to the cap with a poly bushing and some nuts), and that effectively eliminated ALL of my wheel hop.
Engine mounts are new. Bobble strut is completely shot. I would like to see some pics of some solid bobble struts, if anyone has any. I also noticed that it looks like the passenger side tire sets forward and the drivers sets backward in the wheel wells, kinda like the k-frame isn't centered, is that possible? Gonna try to put on some new rear shocks might even go with an air shock if there's any available.

[mcsvt]

Polybushings sells a solid bobble strut. Think Johnny has a pic of it on his site. www.polybushings.com

[CSX321]

I agree with the control arm bushings. After learning a lot and trying a lot with the suspension on my SRT4, I have a new appreciation of suspension and what a difference it makes. I found that poly control arm bushings had a much bigger effect on reducing wheel hop than firmer motor mounts.

[Bardo]

i got my bs from pb. i took the 2 bushing off of the ends

[Directconnection]

Where do I start to get rid of the wheel hop? My car wheel hops worse than any other car I've ever seen.

Many things contribute to wheel hop. I haven't read all the posts here, but I'll write down some for you. Blown struts, bad control arm bushings, worn balljoints and suspension components. A bad front mount and actually the tranny and passenger mount can contribute to this as well.

My VNT has an issue with the passenger mount. I replaced it before heading to the track years back as it looked like it was sagging. Well, it wasn't the mount, but the bracket. I used a pipe on the end of the ratchet to torque that sucker so it wouldn't move, but eventually, the darn thing keeps dropping. When it's in position, no wheel hop at all. But once it starts dropping, I get severe wheelhop on certain pavement and conditions.

I am going to weld it this time around when the new engine goes in if it drops again.


Lastly, bad or no rear strut. The adjustable bobble struts are reccomended to be preloaded by 1/4" or so as it influences the axle geometry which can help wheel hop as well. I never used one... but the new car will get one as well.

[Tony Hanna]

Why couldn't a person make a solid adjustable bobble strut out of a heim joint, some nuts, some washers, and a set of shock bushings? Providing you could find a heim joint with a long enough stem.

[SpoolinGLH]

one word.. slicks....

[turbovanman²]

one word.. slicks....

I would say no, they stick more and are harder to get spinning, that will really make wheel hop show up, :(

[Phreakish]

hmmm... cause now my intrest is peaked im looking this up right now and gonna type whats in the book... dont report me to the copy right office! =P

*Front wheel drive Shock Selection
*Front wheel drive cars with wheelie bars use a soft rear shock to allow the wheelie bars to limit squat and keep weight on the front tires.
*Front wheel drive cars without wheelie bars use stiffer shocks and springs in the rear to limit weight transfer.
*Front wheel drive cars will use the softest front shock possible that will allow traction without wheel hop.
*Since this is a relatively new style of racing, engineering and parts are evolving rapidly, cheak with your suspension manufacturer for the latest advancements in this technology.

I just got that straight from the book, not saying your wrong Simon, but it makes sence to me... cause with a softer shock, (or strut) it would absorb the bounce of the wheel and keep it planted.... im sure low profile tires also have a part in this problem too. im open to oppinions and expirances with this subject.:thumb:

I think what that is really saying is that you want to run as soft as possible WHILE eliminating wheel-hop. Basically, soften the front until it hops then step back one...

[Phreakish]

Why couldn't a person make a solid adjustable bobble strut out of a heim joint, some nuts, some washers, and a set of shock bushings? Providing you could find a heim joint with a long enough stem.

Heim one end, and bush the other - fewer wear points, and it'd also be stiffer. I have a 1/2" heim around here somewhere, and need to install this 523... so...

[Directconnection]

I think what that is really saying is that you want to run as soft as possible WHILE eliminating wheel-hop. Basically, soften the front until it hops then step back one...

I don't buy it. My struts in the Shadow are as soft as they come. POS MP struts that have zero damping. Wheelhop mania right now. I would tend to think a stiffer damping strut will keep the wheel planted and less prone to hopping due to the said more aggresive damping. The ricers I have seen at the track with their low profile tires and stiff springs and suspension spin off the line like they are on glass. I could be wrong as this could be simply my observations.

Someone I knew contacted Koni about the proper settings of the struts/shocks. They reccomended the rears on the SOFT setting, not hard. Koni's adjustability is for the rebound. Having them on hard slows the weight transfer not from the intial transfer from front ot back where the rear squats, but holding the rear squated in this position when the weight transfer tries to move back to the front of the car.

[SpoolinGLH]

I would say no, they stick more and are harder to get spinning, that will really make wheel hop show up, :(


Sorry Simon your wrong on this one:thumb: Slicks will practically eliminate all wheel spin. Which wheel spin is what causes wheel hop. If your tires arent burning how can you have wheel hop?:lol:

[cordes]

You can still spin the slicks if you are making enough power. Not only that, but you would just be masking the problem with a $300 bandaid.

[Johnny]

As said above, many things could cause or stop wheel hop. First, what car is it? 1988 and older FWD mopars have bushing/strut a-arms. Some of the wheel hop on these cars is really not just the wheel going up and down, but also forward and back because of the soft rear strut bushing on the a-arm. Fix that first. Next, GOOD struts help alot also.

johnny

[SpoolinGLH]

As said above, many things could cause or stop wheel hop. First, what car is it? 1988 and older FWD mopars have bushing/strut a-arms. Some of the wheel hop on these cars is really not just the wheel going up and down, but also forward and back because of the soft rear strut bushing on the a-arm. Fix that first. Next, GOOD struts help alot also.

johnny


Good point Johnny. Slicks Defintaly do not stop the wheel from going forward and back. Control Arm PB's would help that out.



You can still spin the slicks if you are making enough power. Not only that, but you would just be masking the problem with a $300 bandaid.

Very True. If you drop the hammer off the line on the street alot then yeh it would be a issue. But try bouncing a slick like a basketball with about 12psi in it , then try with a street tire... The street tire will bounce from here all the way down my street because of the hard compound and air pressure... If you launch your car and it hooks up ,you will not have wheel hop plain and simple.

[Phreakish]

I don't buy it. My struts in the Shadow are as soft as they come. POS MP struts that have zero damping. Wheelhop mania right now. I would tend to think a stiffer damping strut will keep the wheel planted and less prone to hopping due to the said more aggresive damping. The ricers I have seen at the track with their low profile tires and stiff springs and suspension spin off the line like they are on glass. I could be wrong as this could be simply my observations.

Someone I knew contacted Koni about the proper settings of the struts/shocks. They reccomended the rears on the SOFT setting, not hard. Koni's adjustability is for the rebound. Having them on hard slows the weight transfer not from the intial transfer from front ot back where the rear squats, but holding the rear squated in this position when the weight transfer tries to move back to the front of the car.

LOL, I agree with ya - but its hard to put into words. Its not that a SOFT strut will help wheel hop, but to INCREASE traction, the quoted book is trying to say that one should run struts as soft as possible while maintaining no wheel hop.

Which means that if a soft strut gives wheel hop, get stiffer ones, or stiffen them until the wheel hop goes away.

[jre97]

As said above, many things could cause or stop wheel hop. First, what car is it? 1988 and older FWD mopars have bushing/strut a-arms. Some of the wheel hop on these cars is really not just the wheel going up and down, but also forward and back because of the soft rear strut bushing on the a-arm. Fix that first. Next, GOOD struts help alot also.

johnny
It's an 88 daytona pacifica, t-2 garret, t-2 rods, jrb 2-1/2" exhaust, a555 alky injection (not being used right now for lack of a better clutch), currently running 14psi. My main problem is on wet roads, ease out on the clutch, boost comes up to about 8-9 psi and my front passenger side tire turns into a basket ball. I know wheel hop breaks things so I immediately let off the gas, it's kinda embarrassing when you do a big smokey burnout beside that 5.0 mustang and your front end is bouncing all over the place.:eyebrows:

[Directconnection]

Only the right front is bouncing? Out of the 100's of burnouts I have done, whenever there is wheelhop, it is due to both wheels hopping. If one spins, it's like the car is on glass.

[jre97]

Only the right front is bouncing? Out of the 100's of burnouts I have done, whenever there is wheelhop, it is due to both wheels hopping. If one spins, it's like the car is on glass.
Well I assume it's only the right front since I'm always driving and it's an open diff. I suppose it could be both. It is pretty violent. If I jack up the front of the car the front end feels tight to grab the wheels and do the "wiggle test" and all of the control arm bushings look to be in good shape but they are the stock ones and have 147000 on them. Hopefully in the next couple of weekends I'll get some time to do a solid bobble strut and address some other rear brake issues the car has.

[jre97]

Wonder where I could get the bushings for that bad boy?

[t3rse]

i don't have any pics of the bobble i made, but someone made one just like it that posted pics on one of these forums. it's just a 1in pipe with a cap. i drilled a hole in the cap and took a piece of all-thread with a nut and slid it through the hole, then welded it to the cap and welded the cap to the pipe. there is two nuts on the bottom to lock the height with one poly bushing that I got from a 4x4 place for 2$ that i hacked in half with a washer above and below and a nut on top. then drill a hole straight through the bottom of the pipe and bolt it up. use your old bobble half-way extended for a base size idea and leave plenty of room to adjust your motor up and down. also, you should center your engine. that can cause issues as well.

to do that, loosen the 4 bolts on the front mount and the two on the side (the slotted holes). take your cv axle nuts off and put your wheels back on and drop the car on level ground. use a piece of wood (i use a hammer handle) and push the axle in as far as it will go. i had a straight edge on the wheel and made a line on the hammer handle to show movement. repeat on the other side. measure the difference and slide the motor over with a pry bar said distance, and your done.

[contraption22]

I don't buy it. My struts in the Shadow are as soft as they come. POS MP struts that have zero damping. Wheelhop mania right now. I would tend to think a stiffer damping strut will keep the wheel planted and less prone to hopping due to the said more aggresive damping. The ricers I have seen at the track with their low profile tires and stiff springs and suspension spin off the line like they are on glass. I could be wrong as this could be simply my observations.

Someone I knew contacted Koni about the proper settings of the struts/shocks. They reccomended the rears on the SOFT setting, not hard. Koni's adjustability is for the rebound. Having them on hard slows the weight transfer not from the intial transfer from front ot back where the rear squats, but holding the rear squated in this position when the weight transfer tries to move back to the front of the car.

Certain things are assumed... like your springs arent too stiff for your struts.

In practice i have found that a STIFF front strut and a SOFT spring works great for traction and reduction of wheelhop.

[turbo xtc]

i have question how about engine not centered i have seen this before on a volkswagon once of course omni's used to use the volkswagon engines before 1981 (put it on jack stands loosen your cv joints loosen all the mounts and use a engine hoist to center it all up then tighten your tranny mount left side first and make sure the cv joints move freely and the right engine mount is 90 degrees from the left fender well then tighten that one up) now your centered then turn your cv joints and check for any binding up before you put your wheels back on