Its been a long long time...need info

[shadowdude]

well i have been off the boardposting for a long time as the shadow hasn,t been doing much .As of late i got off my butt and finally got to the dyno,which turned out to be frustrating to say the least.I wanted to know a few things as it is the very first time the car has been on.It has the Forward motion built A413 in it with a 3000 stall converter.Is it better to dyno it with second or third ? it is manual valve body.Second ,when i did try it in drive/3rd, i could not get the car to pull pass 4500rpm, why would that be ?? I ended up doing only 169whp and 180 ftlb.For the mods that i have on this 91 shadow es ,i really think thats crap.I think from the way the car works on the street and from others that i have run against it should be around 220whp.Of course there were some things i never checked as when i got the numbers i kind of got pissed and just gave up.I never checked what i was boosting,and thought that maybe that was a reason for the low numbers as i have heard for some reason some see less boost on the dyno and have to turn it back up to their street boost amount.If that make sense.I plan on going back and this time not giving up so easily and watching the boost and timing to see.My HP extras are this on a 91 dodge shadow 2.5 turbo........

782 head ported to match FM,s ported exhaust manifold with 3 angle valve job, 3 inch mandrel bent exhaust complete no converter front to back.Enforcer II turbo ,52mm throttle body with match ported one piece intake,super 60 injectors with Adjustable fuel regulator.
Custom intercooler,very big with 2.5 inch piping.FWD performance stage 5 cal.done for my car on 91 octane running @ 15psi right now till install devils own progressive kit is added then up to 20psi.there is more detail on the upgrades if needed on my home page.Fuel is good @ 15psi as we got a reading of 11.4 on the wide band.Other mods are internal "strength" upgrades only.Example JE forged 8: 1 pistons and related.And of course the tranny which i already listed.So wouldn,t one think that roughly 220 whp @ 15psi with these mods is a exceptable aim for whp ?

[1984rampage]

Something must be wrong, because from what Ive read with those mods you should be well over 200whp at 15PSI

[turbovanman²]

2nd gear, 3rd is too high, you'll be doing like 150-200 mph on the dyno.

What cam are you running? is it dialed in? cam timing right? whats your idle vacuum?

Turbo looks to be a T3/T4 with a 46 trim stage II turbine, what a/r is it?

That turbo at 15 psi is still sleeping, and with the ported stuff, you are not flowing enough air. That turbo won't start making power until 16 psi and its good for 30+ psi of boost.

What type of dyno?

[Vigo]

uhhh.. 6000 rpm in 3rd on a stock ratio turbo auto tranny is only 140 something. But 140 is still pretty fast i suppose..

[turbovanman²]

uhhh.. 6000 rpm in 3rd on a stock ratio turbo auto tranny is only 140 something. But 140 is still pretty fast i suppose..

Nah, depends on what gear ratio and on the dyno, the converter doesn't slip as much. :eyebrows:

[shadowdude]

2nd gear, 3rd is too high, you'll be doing like 150-200 mph on the dyno.

What cam are you running? is it dialed in? cam timing right? whats your idle vacuum?

Turbo looks to be a T3/T4 with a 46 trim stage II turbine, what a/r is it?

That turbo at 15 psi is still sleeping, and with the ported stuff, you are not flowing enough air. That turbo won't start making power until 16 psi and its good for 30+ psi of boost.

What type of dyno?Roger that second gear then.So that explains the 4500 limit then.you guys know your stuff indeed.

Stock cam/ valve train with 2 degrees taken out to 10 instead of 12.Basically all stock spec less those 2 degrees.
Helped with the spark knock taking the 2 out.91 octane sucks here.Check it with an OTC scanner and it stays 0ff or barely comes on.Knock voltage stays low.

Idles vacuum ,i never really checked it as of late to be honest.i am assuming a solid 18 inch pounds.I can confirm that tomorrow right o way for you.

.48 A/R turbine housing with 46 trim compressor wheel
Enforcer 2.

wow ..really ,lol and here i am smiling like a kid in the candy store with 15psi on the street.I mean on the street it will just about keep up with a 276 whp srt 4.Now i want 16 psi hehe :D.I want like i said 20psi final goal once i can get around to installing the devils own kit.

The dyno ,that's another thing i am not sure of .I can find out easily enough though.

[shadowdude]

Nah, depends on what gear ratio and on the dyno, the converter doesn't slip as much. :eyebrows:
oh yea, went with a 305 to 1 ratio in the auto when i ordered it from Mike at FM.3000 stall was to get the turbo in its "zone" at the start at the strip.Let it go at 3000 and as many of you can relate to the tires just fry on the street.Oh and i just found out ,it is a dynojet dyno.

[shadowdude]

Ok guys got to the Shadow today and the vacuum at idle is a healthy 20 inch pounds.Timing with gun is 10 degrees BTDC.
anything else ?

[turbovanman²]

Ok, well your setup is sound, the .48 turbine kinda sucks but oh well.

Dynojet, got it. Good vacuum.

I would honestly turn up the boost, like I said, 15 psi, the turbo isn't awake yet.

Are you monitoring AF thru the whole run or just at WOT?

[Vigo]

my mph was based on a 3.02 (stock turbo ratio) and 205/60r15 tire which is a pretty typical height, and no converter slippage at all..

So in reality the number would be slightly LOWER than the 145 i came up with at 6000 rpm, so i said 140.

[shadowdude]

Ok, well your setup is sound, the .48 turbine kinda sucks but oh well.

Dynojet, got it. Good vacuum.

I would honestly turn up the boost, like I said, 15 psi, the turbo isn't awake yet.

Are you monitoring AF thru the whole run or just at WOT? No i did not do that ,never thought to be honest,only AF @ WOT.Had so many other variables going on in my head.I plan on turning it up i just have to add the progressive kit as well,like i say the OTC shows mild knock under WOT sometimes.So the JE,s are strong but i better hook up the kit before i go further.I may go with 16 though.I had thought about this as well.Is the FWD performance stage five cal able to work "good" sort of speak with boost being controlled with a grainger ? I wondered how it does boost when it is hooked back up to the factory solenoid ? what the max ?.The thing that throw me for a loop from all of this is that one would think it would take more then 170whp in a 2800pnd Shadow to run with a proven SRT4 making 276whp.Odd thing indeed...:confused2:

[turbovanman²]

No i did not do that ,never thought to be honest,only AF @ WOT.Had so many other variables going on in my head.I plan on turning it up i just have to add the progressive kit as well,like i say the OTC shows mild knock under WOT sometimes.So the JE,s are strong but i better hook up the kit before i go further.I may go with 16 though.I had thought about this as well.Is the FWD performance stage five cal able to work "good" sort of speak with boost being controlled with a grainger ? I wondered how it does boost when it is hooked back up to the factory solenoid ? what the max ?.The thing that throw me for a loop from all of this is that one would think it would take more then 170whp in a 2800pnd Shadow to run with a proven SRT4 making 276whp.Odd thing indeed...:confused2:

You have to take dyno's with a grain of salt, I dynoed at 320 awhile ago but am running 12's, that takes about 400 whp in my van. They should be used as tools to tune the car and get a good baseline for the track, that's it.

The Stage 5 should be good with a grainger, all cals are. If your getting knock at 15, that sucks, you need to call Cindy, find higher gas or take out some timing, you really shouldn't get knock at 15 psi.

[shadowdude]

Well i figure that as well.I don't know how good gas is out in that neck of Canada "eh" but here in Moncton NB it says 91 but i some times wonder.I just had another thought last night to .My cam,well my whole valve train has 190,000kms on it.Rest of the motor is very very new but i wondered if the knock sensor would see valve train noise form the roller cam set up and show knock under hard acceleration ? Or am i just grabbing for straws here lol.Jees "sarcasm here" must suck to have dyno 320 ,crap if i ever get that let me tell you there will be instant partying right there at the dyno.That is some sweet numbers dude.

[turbovanman²]

Well i figure that as well.I don't know how good gas is out in that neck of Canada "eh" but here in Moncton NB it says 91 but i some times wonder.I just had another thought last night to .My cam,well my whole valve train has 190,000kms on it.Rest of the motor is very very new but i wondered if the knock sensor would see valve train noise form the roller cam set up and show knock under hard acceleration ? Or am i just grabbing for straws here lol.Jees "sarcasm here" must suck to have dyno 320 ,crap if i ever get that let me tell you there will be instant partying right there at the dyno.That is some sweet numbers dude.

91 isn't bad, if its Chevron, same as what we have but we also get 94.

320 is low, should have been closer to 350-370. I ran 12.5 last night so we figure I am making over 400 whp, maybe 440 ish?

The roller setup is pretty quiet, if its noisey, could be a bad head, guide, or lifter.

[shadowdude]

Nope ,all we have here that is "half way" decent is Irving ,Esso or what i use ,Shell v power .Thats as good as it gets here sadly.

I dont find it to noisy I guess,but i often wonder if a set of new rockers and lifters would do it good.It has just over 190,000 Kms on the valve train.

Holy man ,320 low ,my friend believe me when i tell you i have wanted only 280whp for over ten years,yes that right tens years i have been messing with the Shadow.Time ,money or just plain bad luck has prolonged it for some time.As i say 280 whp would be sweet.LOL,your numbers are a dream come true for this guy.12.5 that as well is awesome.:hail:

[turbovanman²]

Nope ,all we have here that is "half way" decent is Irving ,Esso or what i use ,Shell v power .Thats as good as it gets here sadly.

I dont find it to noisy I guess,but i often wonder if a set of new rockers and lifters would do it good.It has just over 190,000 Kms on the valve train.

Holy man ,320 low ,my friend believe me when i tell you i have wanted only 280whp for over ten years,yes that right tens years i have been messing with the Shadow.Time ,money or just plain bad luck has prolonged it for some time.As i say 280 whp would be sweet.LOL,your numbers are a dream come true for this guy.12.5 that as well is awesome.:hail:


Hahhaaa, I've been chasing a 12 sec van for 6 years, started in 2003 and hit my goal in 08, sigh. Now I've gone faster but winged it, my own fault, got the red mist.

Anyhow, 300 whp should be easily attainable with your setup, take it slow, get your alky hooked up and have fun.

[WickedShelby88]

You've got roughly 118k on your valve train. Now wouldn't be a bad time to replace your running gear. Its a shame you can't get better fuel in your area. We have 93 available out here luckily. Heck the VNT car of my mom's I drove gets knock on anything even slightly diluted with regular under stock boost. Waste can might be going on this one.

[shadowdude]

I hear that ,years do go by fast when your tuning for that "right" number.Thanks for the help guys and yes i do plan on getting that Injection hooked up for the higher boost.Yea even though it is a roller setup i have thought about changing it as that is pretty much the only non stock ,non new thing left on it lol.Yea it does suck we have crap gas here .I find the v-power is the only thing that runs the best for my car.LOL,wish my "mom" had a VNT .We are limited to the TD heres lol.Only a few of us around.Oh well just makes ours a little more unique here.

[turbovanman²]

Another trick for avoiding detonation is to run NGK plugs BR9ES, they are a recessed tip or the Iridium version which I prefer, B9ESIX or BR9EIX, always get that number wrong.

[Vigo]

for reference, a stock non intercooled log on 93 didnt start knocking on me til 16 psi a few weeks ago (accident).

[shadowdude]

I have the champion RN3C 880 plugs in it right now.Tried 9,s but read or told rather that the 3s was the way to go.If i can get my hands on a digital camera i will take a short vid of whats happening on the OTC 3000 scanner while driving.Maybe you guy will see something i missed or assumed is "ok".

[turbovanman²]

I have the champion RN3C 880 plugs in it right now.Tried 9,s but read or told rather that the 3s was the way to go.If i can get my hands on a digital camera i will take a short vid of whats happening on the OTC 3000 scanner while driving.Maybe you guy will see something i missed or assumed is "ok".

3's are too hot, 9's are nice and cold, NGK is backwards in numbering to other plug manufacterers.

[shadowdude]

What ??.... really,.. the champions RN3C are hotter then champion RN9YC, you sure ? I always thought they were the same heat range, a bit cooler maybe ,oh well i am open minded.Maybe thats why it has a bit of knock then.I still have a new set of champion RN9YC ,i will put those back in then and go for a WOT run and see what happens.

[turbovanman²]

What ??.... really,.. the champions RN3C are hotter then champion RN9YC, you sure ? I always thought they were the same heat range, a bit cooler maybe ,oh well i am open minded.Maybe thats why it has a bit of knock then.I still have a new set of champion RN9YC ,i will put those back in then and go for a WOT run and see what happens.

NO, NGK does that, Champions are the other way, that's why i said NGK is backwards. 3's in Champs are cold.

[shadowdude]

OH,ok gotcha.Sorry ,misunderstood man :o
I for some reason cant get this bleep-en camera phone to work with my PC so when i get another digital camera device i will send you a fast video of my OTC 3000 scanner on the Shadow so you can have a look at the stuff going on.Well if you don't mind that is.Like i say ,to me it seems ok but you might notice something i don,t.

[turbovanman²]

Sure, post up.

[shadowdude]

Hahhaaa, I've been chasing a 12 sec van for 6 years, started in 2003 and hit my goal in 08, sigh. Now I've gone faster but winged it, my own fault, got the red mist.

Anyhow, 300 whp should be easily attainable with your setup, take it slow, get your alky hooked up and have fun.Ok then i just finished putting in the progressive devils own kit in.I haven't touched anything else yet as turn key shows 3 yellow flashes so i know it is good to go for the 3 bar.So now it is still at 15psi and tuned in fuel for that boost level.I am using winter washer fluid as i read here it is ok to use.It is straight alcohol and methanol mix no additives.Blue stuff only.So i want to tune this now to a safe "no blow the motor up" 20psi of boost.How is the safest and best way to tune this up to the level with the kit and fuel. ? I am still wanted you Simon to still have look see at the going ons on the OTC and i am working to get it posted up.Just haven a bugger of a time getting windows to freak en make it a file so i can send it.

[turbovanman²]

If your CEL is set to flash, then simply turn the boost up 2 psi at a time and watch your AF and knock, I was told that using alky will make your wideband read .5 lower. I also use the blue stuff, :nod:


Yes with a 50/50 mix.

Yes, With a 11.5 tune the alky will drop the AFR to 11.0. You should be relatively immune to detonation. I'd tune it to 12.0/12.5 then add on the meth if it were me. Also I'd stop adding the race fuel as you are probably over medicating the engine and leaving a lot of power on the table depending on nozzle size of course and knock feedback if any.

[shadowdude]

No my CEL isn,t set to flash under knock that i know of,I had this stage 5 cal for a year now and for the life of me i cant remember if it is .Guess i will know if i see heavy knock.Ether or i will increase by 2 psi and watch the A/F and Knock sensor on the scanner and add in the injection that way .I forgot to ask you ,i got the progressive kit form FWD performance and i got 3 nozzles with it.Again ,since i waited so long to put it in i cant find the list that tells me what size they are.I put the middle size one in .Is it 10gph ? I dont know and wondered if you knew.Like i say there are 3 in the sizes in the kit so i went wiht the middle size one.Hey and i appreciate the help here to my friend.

[shadowdude]

Kewl..took it out tonight for the tune and it works great.Man 18 psi is always a blast at first lol.I tuned it for that right now to keep an eye on how this works out.The knock sensor say it is on but the voltage is just a under a volt under WOT for the whole 15 seconds,right up to140 to 150 kph then i let off it never goes higher.So i wonder if some other thing is causing it to pick up a little "back round" noise and trigger it on just a bit.I set the controller to start at 10psi and max at 16psi.Seems to be the happy spot thus far.Fuel is good as it never drops below .92 on the O2 .Wide band is gone so it is the nest best thing checking the 02 on the OTC scanner for now till i get another.

[turbovanman²]

I can't remember but I think the knock sensor always displays a small amount of voltage.

Awesome, sounds like you've got her dialed in, :nod:

[shadowdude]

Yep,even for a 37 year old like me i act like a kid every time i get to feel higher boost.I bet you know what i mean lol.The funnest part is just leaving the lights normal up to 40kph then flooring it and it just breaks loose and wails on the tires,then you let off and calmly keep cruising while people around are just stunned that a Shadow just did that.With your van i bet it is the same deal.I was wondering to, for your 20 psi what do you set your controller for ? 20psi is coming with in a week .I am just going 18 to "test" how everything else is holding up.Then it is up to the final 20 psi for good.So i was curious to know what you have your controller set at.I know it could be different for mine but just wondered for a loose guide line.

[turbovanman²]

Mine has no numbers so I set it, WOT, then adjust as necessary.