So I bumped the timing.....

[fastasleep]

to 14* base timing instead of 12*. This made a tremendous difference! I know that I hear a lot of people tell me that "change x" made a few hp difference, but I have never been that keen on detecting a change of only a few hp. But, WOW, I can tell a difference with this change! The van takes about the same amount of time to get to full boost (18 psi right now), but the "seat of the pants" feel is more drastic. I am still showing a little rich on the Dawes Device (I have wideband, but have seen for myself that the DD shows lean/rich in accordance with the wideband), but still no knock.

Damn, I love this van!:nod::D:evil:

BTW, I put it on a 260 cid Falcon the other day. Gave him the move at about 40 mph and spanked him all the way to about 90 mph. After we let out of it, he and his passenger came by me with a thumbs-up and two of the biggest smiles I have ever seen! THAT is what it is all about.:nod::amen::D

-Les

[turbovanman²]

Is that a stock cal? G-head or swirl head? I can't remember, :(

[blk86trbo]

LOL, I enjoy hearing stories where the loser has a good attitude! Good job ;)

[fastasleep]

Right now I am running a Stage V FWD cal. This cal. doesn't give me the CEL when it detects knock like Rob's did, but it does pull timing if there is knock. I am running a ported 782 head with all new valves (stock-sized) and a FM 475 cam with PT lifters and 061 springs.

-Les

[turbovanman²]

I would becareful bumping timing without monitoring it, sometimes its too late when you hear it.

Every engine is different so yours could tolerate some more timing, I know my current setup loves timing, so much so I think bakes blew his up because of it, :lol:

[fastasleep]

Like I said, the computer pulls timing but it doesn't give a CEL. Is there any other way to tell if there is knock present?

-Les

[turbovanman²]

Like I said, the computer pulls timing but it doesn't give a CEL. Is there any other way to tell if there is knock present?

-Les

Doesn't matter if it pulls timing, if you have too much and the computer only pulls out X amount, it will still melt, trust me. When you alter the base, your adding timing everywhere.

You need to enable the CEL flash or use a scanner or rig up your own set of ears to listen.

[Aries_Turbo]

I would becareful bumping timing without monitoring it, sometimes its too late when you hear it.

did i just hear those words come out of your mouth??? :faint: ;)

[turbovanman²]

did i just hear those words come out of your mouth??? :faint: ;)

Hahahaha, shhhhhhhhhhhhhh, :lol:

My CEL light works, sometimes, :nod:

[fastasleep]

I have to send this chip back to FWD for a fine-tune; I guess they can do that when it is there? Otherwise, how would I rig up some device to listen, or can I buy some type of device that can listen for me?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8964/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TXS-KNOCK/?image=large

-Les

[turbovanman²]

Cindy should be able to add that, if not, just get Rob to make you another cal with it enabled.

That's alot of money when you already have a factory system that works. Use a length of hose to listen, copper pipe, stethoscope.

[Aries_Turbo]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=521051&postcount=50

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1555006

two different methods of listening to knock.

Brian

[chilort]

I just need to swing by some weekend when I'm free with my 4000e. It displays knock active (general yes/no) and degrees of knock retard on each cylinder. I would assume that once you have it setup, if you leave it alone then, it should be good to go. Any changes and it is back to monitoring. This weekend is, of course, shot since I'm up in Johnson City, Tn.

[fastasleep]

I just need to swing by some weekend when I'm free with my 4000e. It displays knock active (general yes/no) and degrees of knock retard on each cylinder. I would assume that once you have it setup, if you leave it alone then, it should be good to go. Any changes and it is back to monitoring. This weekend is, of course, shot since I'm up in Johnson City, Tn.

Awesome! That would be great, man. How about next weekend? I am off on Friday and Saturday. Do you have anything going?

-Les

[chilort]

Awesome! That would be great, man. How about next weekend? I am off on Friday and Saturday. Do you have anything going?

-Les

There is currently nothing on the calendar for Friday or Saturday. Friday will stay that way for sure. Sounds like a plan.

[fastasleep]

Great. Let me know closer to the weekend when you have time to fit me in.

-Les
770-778-7368

[fastasleep]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/869/thumbs/0015.JPG ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/869/0015.JPG')

Check this out, I bought it at a garage sale about 2-3 years ago. It is called a Steelman ChassisEar. It has six clamps that can be attached anywhere; each has a 9' (or shorter) lead attached; the other side is plugged into the controller. When you put the headphones on you can turn the dial to listen to the corresponding sensor (clamp). Do you think this would work for listening to knock? I can tell you that I can hear a mosquito fart through it, so I am hoping it would be trick for listening to knock. I bought it thinking I would never use it. Also, with so many sensors, I could potentially isolate which cylinder has the most problem with knock? Dunno, but I am glad I spent the $5.

-Les

[turbovanman²]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/869/thumbs/0015.JPG ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/869/0015.JPG')

Check this out, I bought it at a garage sale about 2-3 years ago. It is called a Steelman ChassisEar. It has six clamps that can be attached anywhere; each has a 9' (or shorter) lead attached; the other side is plugged into the controller. When you put the headphones on you can turn the dial to listen to the corresponding sensor (clamp). Do you think this would work for listening to knock? I can tell you that I can hear a mosquito fart through it, so I am hoping it would be trick for listening to knock. I bought it thinking I would never use it. Also, with so many sensors, I could potentially isolate which cylinder has the most problem with knock? Dunno, but I am glad I spent the $5.

-Les

Of course you can use that, that's in one of Brian's links.

[fastasleep]

Oh, didn't see it.

-Les

[turbo84voyager]

I agree with Simon about being careful. But then again I was running 18 + degrees of advance with a FWD stage 5 cal for my g-headed 2.5 and it still was a dog. That was my first and last cal I bought. After working with Rob's base cals and D-cal I will never go back. The CEL knock is a great thing.

[turbovanman²]

I agree with Simon about being careful. But then again I was running 18 + degrees of advance with a FWD stage 5 cal for my g-headed 2.5 and it still was a dog. That was my first and last cal I bought. After working with Rob's base cals and D-cal I will never go back. The CEL knock is a great thing.

I am running probably more than that on my TIII. For some reason, it LOVES it, :love:

[Aries_Turbo]

I am running probably more than that on my TIII. For some reason, it LOVES it, :love:

in vac, yes.... in boost, no....

Brian

[janus]

care to explain brian? :)
i hear too much spark advance (in boost, supposedly?) will hurt turbo spoolup, right?

[Aries_Turbo]

i was only commenting on simons van. it likes more timing out of boost. makes the van more responsive and smooth on the street. he still needs to take some timing out of the ecu in high boost levels.

too much advance in boost causes detonation and breaks stuff. it shouldnt affect spoolup once slightly into boost that much.

as far as timing advance killing spoolup in vacuum.... if the engine is more responsive out of boost, spoolup is going to be decent.

now, pulling LOTS of timing and dumping in extra fuel really decreases spoolup time cause there is gas igniting in the turbine housing.

Brian

[janus]

ah :D sounds well understandable. thanks for clearing things up. i didn't think the 'too much timing under boost' was due to stuff breakage ;) also, as far as the 'anti-lag' raw fuel dump into the turbo goes, i guess that's not what most of us would use on a street driver :D

sounds like one could tune the timing in vac right away based on the resulting responsiveness then.

[Austrian Dodge]

it's not uncommon to have very low (even negative) timing somewere in the ignition map, to help spool the turbo.
ford cosworth have a dip in their timing map somewhere in the 2500rpm range...it drops to -3° and rises with the next RPM break point again.

[fastasleep]

now, pulling LOTS of timing and dumping in extra fuel really decreases spoolup time cause there is gas igniting in the turbine housing.

Brian

I thought this was how a two-step with retard helped spool up on the line. Of course, I am talking about 8* or a little less retard (roughtly 4* BTDC) with the two-step to get the turbo to spool, not 1*-2* ATDC. This would leave the fuel to ignite while the exhaust valve was still open (hence, the loud pops from the exhaust). This is what I was doing on the Pinto to get it to spool. Once I let off of the momentary button (hooked to the clutch pedal) that energized the 2-step and retard, the thing was already at 8-10 psi. and lanuched.

Also, I thought that was what I was seeing when I saw the rally cars shooting flames; they wanted to retard the timing to get the turbo re-spooled quickly after being out of throttle momentarily............don't know why I thought that..............:o

Am I way off here?

-Les

[turbo84voyager]

in vac, yes.... in boost, no....

Brian

On mine this was a fwd cal so I couldnt tweak the advance other than advancing the timing in the distributor so I had my distributor at 18+ degrees so I had 6 degrees more even under boost.