Recommendation for Carb Upgrade for 2.2 N/A?

[DC Turismo]

Doing some work on my Turismo over winter and I'd like to upgrade the carb. to a better one. Not sure which ones will fit the stock plate though so figured I'd ask for advice. Is there a Weber that will attach directly? Or even a higher performance Holley?

Please let me know if you can.

[turbovanman²]

If you can afford it, go sidedraft, :evil:

[bakes]

Holley 2 barrel 350-500 cfm carbs are out there but you need a cam and 5sp to use them
the 500 cfm is good if you put a 2 barrel Nos plate with a 50-100 shot on it.
the side draft Webber's are the better setup i was never happy with the downdraft 2bl Webber in had the car would pull more g's then the fuel bowl could handle.

[DC Turismo]

I'm not sure if you guys are talking dual carbs or not, but I had the option of doing that years ago and I sold all the stuff instead. Now I'm focusing on just using one carb, and aren't they all setup as downdrafts?

I will have a 5 speed in the car come next spring, and changing a cam wouldn't be an issue. So can you provide more details on the one you're discussing Bakes?

[turbojerk]

I recommend ditching the N/A in favor of a TII swap.

Porblem solved!

[bakes]

http://www.holley.com/types/Two%20Barrel%20Street.asp
i installed the off road float kit in it to help with the vibrations of road racing which helped a lot
Was running a ported 655 long tube header and aggressive cam made power to 8,ooorpm then it hit valve float we set the rev limiter to 7,200 rpm . Below 2500 it was a little boggy just had to modulate the throttle until 3000 before going to WOT.
http://www.holley.com/12900NOS.asp

[Dominic]

This is the carb I'll be using

Weber 32/36 DFAV (http://www.webernorthamerica.com/32_36_DFEV_Weber_Carb.html)

I grabbed mine from Ebay a few years ago (new in box) pretty cheap. Some modifications required to the throttle linkage, nothing major.

The holley's used on the l-bodies (5200 and 6200 series) were all based on this weber design.

If you're looking into more performance-oriented carb, there's the Weber 38/38 DGES (http://www.webernorthamerica.com/38_DGES_Weber_Carb.html)

[ATaylorRacing]

Talking from usage of carbs since 1981 I suggest....if you can afford it...TURBOII swap! You can rack up a few hundred $ in a short time trying to make a carb car quick, but save yourself long term regrets by doing the turbo. I have tried the dual side draft carbs and had bad heat soak troubles. I tried the Holley 500 2 barrell and they are just too big. Currently I have a 2.5 with no balance shafts but had to use Mopar Performance jetting kit to make it run right. The primary jet I use is a 404 secondary and my secondary is a massive 527 from a VW powered carb. The biggest in the kit was a 455? I use an EGT guage to keep it at the correct tune. Those that do a mechanical secondary carb will run WAY too nuclear lean with a 2.5 swap when flying down the highway at above 70 mph. I don't know about the vacuum secondary carbs. My carb is off the Rampage 2.2 from many years ago with no electric feedback. My next choice would be the Holley 350 2 barrell. You can spend a crap load of money on the carb motor (like me) and just not be happy with your results, or go out and plug in a (better yet) SRT4 powertrain! If I get rich that is what I want to do. My stage 2 2825 lb SRT4 has ran in the 12s. If I plugged that into my 1810 lb Horizon and it added another 100 lbs then it should run in the 11.4 range. Another benefit would be better fuel economy. Old Matchbox gets a best of only 23 mpg while the SRT4 gets an honest 35...when running exactly 60 and staying out of the boost. The Forward Motion Enforcer 1 turbo made that happen from a previous 32.8..in fact I touched 40.1 twice while going 55-60 and drafting (about 30 yds back) from slow semis!

[bakes]

Talking from usage of carbs since 1981 I suggest....if you can afford it...TURBOII swap! You can rack up a few hundred $ in a short time trying to make a carb car quick, but save yourself long term regrets by doing the turbo. I have tried the dual side draft carbs and had bad heat soak troubles. I tried the Holley 500 2 barrell and they are just too big. Currently I have a 2.5 with no balance shafts but had to use Mopar Performance jetting kit to make it run right. The primary jet I use is a 404 secondary and my secondary is a massive 527 from a VW powered carb. The biggest in the kit was a 455? I use an EGT guage to keep it at the correct tune. Those that do a mechanical secondary carb will run WAY too nuclear lean with a 2.5 swap when flying down the highway at above 70 mph. I don't know about the vacuum secondary carbs. My carb is off the Rampage 2.2 from many years ago with no electric feedback. My next choice would be the Holley 350 2 barrell. You can spend a crap load of money on the carb motor (like me) and just not be happy with your results, or go out and plug in a (better yet) SRT4 powertrain! If I get rich that is what I want to do. My stage 2 2825 lb SRT4 has ran in the 12s. If I plugged that into my 1810 lb Horizon and it added another 100 lbs then it should run in the 11.4 range. Another benefit would be better fuel economy. Old Matchbox gets a best of only 23 mpg while the SRT4 gets an honest 35...when running exactly 60 and staying out of the boost. The Forward Motion Enforcer 1 turbo made that happen from a previous 32.8..in fact I touched 40.1 twice while going 55-60 and drafting (about 30 yds back) from slow semis!

or just drop a v6 drive train in it and be done

[contraption22]

My advice for carb'd 2.2 upgrades:

Go out to the garage and hang a rope from the rafters.

Take your pants off.

Lay down on your back and try to piss up the rope.





Seriously... you can dump a ton into the thing and MAYBE get as much HP as a stock T1, but still probably not as much torque.

If you don't feel like going turbo... how about a 2.0 DOHC neon engine!?
Quick, high rpm fun and great MPG!

[ScottD]

Billy - I hate to say this but there is some excellent information on "the other site" about which carb to use. I did a lot of reading there. I ended up buying a Weber carb for my Turismo which is still sitting in the box. It was a 32/36 DF something. I'll have to take another look at it. However, other than taking the throttle arm off the holley it is a direct bolt on.

The mods I have planned for mine are as follows:
Weber carb
2.25 exhaust
Remove air pump, egr and 02 sensor
88 roller cam
UD pulley
180 t-stat
Advance timing to 14
K&N drop in

I'm not expecting this thing to make big power but it should be fun enough.

[Force Fed Mopar]

The Mustangs use a pretty much identical carb on the 2.3, they will bolt right on, and since they are used on the dirt tracks so much, I would look there for tuning parts and tips. Some of those cars haul serious butt through corners sideways at 7k+ w/ no fueling issues. I think the manifold is more of a problem on our engines than the carb. You can stack gaskets under the carb to give it more room under it (essentially slightly increases plenum volume and helps it turn the corner I believe). Shave the head or block (or both) to increase the compression. Cams will make a bigger difference at this point too I think, than they will on a stock engine.

[DC Turismo]

I am not looking to make power out of this car, just a little upgrade of the carb to help things run a tad bit smoother, better, whatever over the course of this upcoming winter. I was in the mindset of turboing this car and have everything necessary to do it, I just don't feel like it. I like it N/A so that's how its staying. I got the CSX and GT to putz around with boost wise.

Scott, can you get me the info on that Weber carb? I had one of those too back in the day, brand new, and sold it as well. I've been told the 32/36 DFEV is a direct bolt on. In either case, let me know what model yours is!

[contraption22]

If you're just wanting to eliminate the feedback and emissions stuff, a good find would be a carb off a Ford Maverick or Pinto with a 2bbl 4cyl, or even an early 2.2 Chrysler minivan. I had a carb from a Maverick on my Horizon and it ran really good compared to the original carb.

You could probably also take an OE intake manifold and with some cutting and welding, have a flange for a good ol Holley 2bbl put on. I think a 350cfm unit should be enough.

[contraption22]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/78-79-OMNI-HORIZON-1-7L-HOLLEY-5220-2BBL-CARBURETOR_W0QQitemZ270433897538QQcmdZViewItemQQpt ZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ef71 dcc42&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

[turbojerk]

If you're not interested in going turbo why not convert to TBI?

[contraption22]

If you're not interested in going turbo why not convert to TBI?

^^^ true dat. All of the drivability of a Turbo conversion, without all that annoying power and torque!

[Force Fed Mopar]

^^^ true dat. All of the drivability of a Turbo conversion, without all that annoying power and torque!

:lol: :nod:

[DC Turismo]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/78-79-OMNI-HORIZON-1-7L-HOLLEY-5220-2BBL-CARBURETOR_W0QQitemZ270433897538QQcmdZViewItemQQpt ZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ef71 dcc42&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

Is that a direct bolt on? And would the Direct Connection jet kit I just purchased for a Holley 5220 work on this (I ask because of the year and cylinder motor difference)?


If you're not interested in going turbo why not convert to TBI?

Nah, the T-Riz is going to stick with its roots :love: N/A all the way!

[contraption22]

Nah, the T-Riz is going to stick with its roots :love: N/A all the way!

TBI is N/A

[glhturbo1985]

i have a tbi motor painted and ready for your use!

[DC Turismo]

TBI is N/A

I know :thumb: It's staying carb. :amen:


i have a tbi motor painted and ready for your use!

No kidding! You got quite the engine buffet over your place lol...

[turbojerk]

Nah, the T-Riz is going to stick with its roots :love: N/A all the way!

Barf....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARSCrpaMqGQ&feature=related

[Vigo]

tbi is super duper easy to make run right and get excellent mileage, all parts are nearly free, and if you're putting it on a carb car you can probly skip about 2/3rds of the wiring in a factory tbi harness..

I cant say, though, that ive never wanted a carb car. I've always liked the idea of having a completely self-contained carb motor do drop into my IN-PROGRESS cars and just hook up fuel and 12v and toodle around the yard. Past that, though, no appeal to me. :p

[contraption22]

Years and years ago, there was a guy in our local chapter building up a carb'd Shelby Charger, and wanted where to go for some resources for some carb tuning tips. I told him to check out some cave paintings. :)

[ScottD]

Billy I can check on the carb I bought. If I don't get back to you just send me a PM and remind me.

I thought about converting my Turismo to TBI but just feel like the carb is something different that you don't see often.

[Force Fed Mopar]

If you're not interested in going turbo why not convert to TBI?


Nah, the T-Riz is going to stick with its roots :love: N/A all the way!


TBI is N/A

Priceless :lol:

[DC Turismo]

LOL oh geez, I know TBI is NA!!!! :scream: :lol: I was going to put that, but then my N/A all the way rhyme would have been ruined with that explanation at the end :)

I'm with you Scott, everyone likes to ditch the carb and I've gotten enough hassle for not doing it already over the years. I'm not one to fall in line and do what everyone else is doing and liking, I like staying different. I'll be looking forward to those specs on your carb then!

[Dominic]

The Weber DFAV is a direct bolt on flange-wise.

http://www.ontarioshelbydodge.com/forums/photoplog/images/14/medium/1_Carb_linkage2_001.jpg
http://www.ontarioshelbydodge.com/forums/photoplog/images/14/medium/1_Carb_linkage2_002.jpg

The main difference is the linkage (especially when buying a carb advertised for another make/model). You need to remove the throttle linkage from the holley.

http://www.ontarioshelbydodge.com/forums/photoplog/images/14/medium/1_Carb_linkage_005.jpg

I cut off a few tabs from the linkage and also had to enlarge this opening a smidge.

http://www.ontarioshelbydodge.com/forums/photoplog/images/14/medium/2_Carb_linkage_006.jpg

Now we have my current obstacle.....the rod between the choke and throttle....

(My kit was for an air-cooled VW, so I'll show the difference between it's rod and the holley)

Holley rod:
Rod binds on idle set screw
http://www.ontarioshelbydodge.com/forums/photoplog/images/14/medium/1_Carb_linkage_009.jpg
http://www.ontarioshelbydodge.com/forums/photoplog/images/14/medium/1_Carb_linkage_010.jpg

VW rod:
Binds on throttle linkage

http://www.ontarioshelbydodge.com/forums/photoplog/images/14/medium/1_Carb_linkage_011.jpg

I'm going to try and grind down a bit from the throttle as well as a bit from the rod, see if I can make a little room.....

Weber DFAV 32/36 and Holley (I believe 5220) side-by-side:

http://www.ontarioshelbydodge.com/forums/photoplog/images/14/medium/1_weber-holley_001.jpg
http://www.ontarioshelbydodge.com/forums/photoplog/images/14/medium/1_weber-holley_002.jpg
http://www.ontarioshelbydodge.com/forums/photoplog/images/14/medium/1_weber-holley_003.jpg

[DC Turismo]

Thank you for that post! See I never had any side by side images or carbs physically in front of me to compare. That is very helpful, I appreciate it.

What is the difference between a DFAV and DFEV then?

[ScottD]

I still have to pull the box out to be sure but I'm pretty sure I got the DFEV because it was listed as a direct replacement for the Holley 5200.

http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/Weber_Carburetors_s/2.htm

Here's another link that might be helpful ... I hate to give props to the "other" site but they do have a separate carb section there which is helpful.

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f11/f56/224608-weber-one-get.html

[Dominic]

From what I can tell, the difference is the choke (DFEV = electric choke, DFAV = water choke).

Kinda weird, cuz mine is stamped with DFAV, but has electric choke........


Another kinda off-topic, but somewhat related question.....Any mods to the carb intake anyone can suggest??

[WickedShelby88]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27949&highlight=charger+found+weeds
This car moved pretty good for running a carb but it was running a 2.5 tall deck.
Had a lot of dc parts which would fit with your name here though:nod:

[Big_P]

Stupercharger!!

[Vigo]

it was running a 2.5 tall deck.

always seemed like the n/a way to go to me since you can throw in the carb 2.2 flat top pistons with no changes and run a 782 for factory high compression setup. should be WAY stronger than an old g-head 2.2.

[WickedShelby88]

Yeah I don't see the problem with carbs. Many people take the V8's and make serious power very competitive with the fuel injection especially now a days. Get ya a demon 2 barrel and a custom intake.

[DC Turismo]

LOL I got the Direct Connection jet kit in this week for the Holley carb, so I'll have those redone on the 20k miles motor I have in the garage and just put the whole thing in and be done :)

[ScottD]

Billy I got the 32/36 DFEV, it's sitting on my workbench right now. I'm looking at how to adapt the throttle arm. I bought the universal linkage adaptor from Weber and am going to try and make that work first.

[Dominic]

I ironed out the issues with the rod, got the ol' dremel out and ground down the linkage and rod (the weber rod, vw in my case) a bit and now have full, unhindered throttle movement. once i get my body work done, going to start work on the engine.

[DC Turismo]

Scott, let me know the progress and maybe you can bring it to the SV picnic at the end of the month for me to check out in person?


Dominic, congrats! Have any additional pics to share?

[ScottD]

I'm bringing the GLHS to T's. Right now I'm shooting to have the Turismo on the road by Cecil in November. The big thing I have to do is weld up or plug the 02 sensor and EGR bungs on the exhaust manifold and get a vacuum advance distributor.