re-connecting head

[shrapnel]

Is it allright if I still use the same headbolts to re-connect back to the block? I hear different stories. How much lubricant should be put on the bolt?

[cordes]

You really should buy new bolts. Just pick up some MP bolts and be done with it. I install the bolts right out of the package with no lube.

[Turbodave]

Fel-pro bolts are fine too and easier to get than the MP ones, just re-use your old washers.

[jckrieger]

Or you can go by the service manual and only replace the bolts if the threads show signs of necking. I have honestly re-used the set of MP bolts at least 3-4 times on my CSX!

[t3rse]

with a caliper, measure length, if within spec, reuse

[chilort]

I've reused them once. This is on my currently daily driver. I only run 15psi of boost. But I drive it in a lot of bad traffic so it sees some heat cycling. Plus, I seem to have this difficult problem where my right foot only does full throttle acceleration. I've put a few 10 thousand miles on it since I replaced the top end with no problem.

However, my next engine is getting ARP head bolts....

[135sohc]

How much lubricant should be put on the bolt?

I dip them in a can of clean motor oil and wipe off the excess.



You really should buy new bolts. Just pick up some MP bolts and be done with it. I install the bolts right out of the package with no lube.

"Regular" Mopar 11mm headbolts are the same thing and 1/2 the price :thumb:

[cordes]

"Regular" Mopar 11mm headbolts are the same thing and 1/2 the price :thumb:

That's interesting. Back when a set was less than $30 a couple years ago the local dealership charged my friend $3.50 per bolt. The MP bolts sure have gone up in price though.

[bfarroo]

Most people will say that if you reach 90ft/lbs in the last 1/4 turn then your good to go. If not the bolt is stretched and needs to be replaced. If they're the factory bolts and are 20 years old I'd replace them reguardless. The felpro ones are pretty cheap and I haven't had any issues with them although I don't run a huge amount of boost either.

[boost geek]

Blow out the bolt holes first with compressed air. If oil or coolant is in the holes, the bolt wont go in all the way, you will get a false reading.

[shrapnel]

Thanks for the information. To the best of my knowledge, these are the factory bolts. I will buy the fel pro's since they are not too bad price wise and the engine is stock anyway. I did notice some oil in one of the threads. I rolled up a small piece of paper towel really thin and put it in the hole and let the capillary action soak up the oil. Maybe a q-tip would work well? I do not have any thread chasers.

[badandy]

I've been told that MP bolts are re-packaged Fel-Pro's but I don't know how true that is.

[Force Fed Mopar]

If you have a angle grinder or cut-off wheel (or something similar) you can cut a groove into an old head bolt to make your own thread chaser.

[Darkapollo]

I will never use fail-pros again. After taking the 2.2 out of my CS, I saw that every thing was fel-pro :banghead:, and the head bolts were RUSTED IN THE BLOCK :confused:. I dont know if that was from improper installation (ie, not using any oil) or what, but I have NEVER seen that happen. It took quite a bit for me to get them out with out breaking anything off. I picked up MP head bolts and they arent that black-oxide finish like fel-pros, they look ALMOST like a stainless steel bolt (that dull silver-gray shine).

(btw, the head gasket was toast, so was the manifold gasket.. fail-pro.)

[badandy]

I will never use fail-pros again. After taking the 2.2 out of my CS, I saw that every thing was fel-pro :banghead:, and the head bolts were RUSTED IN THE BLOCK :confused:. I dont know if that was from improper installation (ie, not using any oil) or what, but I have NEVER seen that happen. It took quite a bit for me to get them out with out breaking anything off. I picked up MP head bolts and they arent that black-oxide finish like fel-pros, they look ALMOST like a stainless steel bolt (that dull silver-gray shine).

(btw, the head gasket was toast, so was the manifold gasket.. fail-pro.)

The head gasket AND the exhaust/intake gasket was blown yet you blame the gaskets...and the bolts? :confused: If you think about that it makes no sense. Obviously that was cause by a component failure or improper installation. there had to be some MAJOR heat for that to happen or improperly installed fasteners. The head bolts rusted due to the coolant from the blown headgasket.

I'm not going to say that Fel-pro headgaskets are as durable as Mopars...but I've never had a failure or either brand...in something like 18 years.

[Darkapollo]

So by your logic, an inferior product wont fail under normal conditions when properly installed?
That is a bit off.. they are considered inferior for a reason. that being it. i have seen fel pro gaskets fail with in a few months on our cars.
you just said 'im not going to say fel pro head gaskets are as durable as mopars...' so what are you trying to say then?
that doesnt make much sense really, yes it could have been poor installation, but when it comes down to it, the gaskets were not subjected to any abnormal conditions. stock boost levels, stock fuel, stock timing, etc. so yes, i blame the cheap gaskets.

[135sohc]

That's interesting. Back when a set was less than $30 a couple years ago the local dealership charged my friend $3.50 per bolt. The MP bolts sure have gone up in price though.

If you shop around you can get the regular mopar bolts for around $2/each or slightly less. (dealer cost is something like $0.90 each btw) I also got raped at the dealer and paid $3.50 each for 10 regular ones last year before I knew any better. :o but its still less than the MP bolts.

[jckrieger]

I will never use fail-pros again. After taking the 2.2 out of my CS, I saw that every thing was fel-pro :banghead:, and the head bolts were RUSTED IN THE BLOCK :confused:. I dont know if that was from improper installation (ie, not using any oil) or what, but I have NEVER seen that happen. It took quite a bit for me to get them out with out breaking anything off. I picked up MP head bolts and they arent that black-oxide finish like fel-pros, they look ALMOST like a stainless steel bolt (that dull silver-gray shine).

(btw, the head gasket was toast, so was the manifold gasket.. fail-pro.)

The head bolt rusting thing is somewhat common. I pulled apart a virgin 2.5L engine and one of the head bolts broke off when I was removing the head. Turns out the shank of the bolt rusted and seized to the head! I lifted the entire front of the van off the ground by the head with an engine hoist and the head still wouldn't come off because of the broken bolt. Any bolt can rust, especially when exposed to a leaky head gasket.

[puppet]

Seen this happen too ... head will have a fine hairline crack from the jacket straight back to the bolt hole. Won't leak visibly but the bolt will corrode bigtime.

[badandy]

So by your logic, an inferior product wont fail under normal conditions when properly installed?
That is a bit off.. they are considered inferior for a reason. that being it. i have seen fel pro gaskets fail with in a few months on our cars.
you just said 'im not going to say fel pro head gaskets are as durable as mopars...' so what are you trying to say then?
that doesnt make much sense really, yes it could have been poor installation, but when it comes down to it, the gaskets were not subjected to any abnormal conditions. stock boost levels, stock fuel, stock timing, etc. so yes, i blame the cheap gaskets.
I'm not insulting your intelligence or experience...so how about give me the same respect?

You hit the nail on the head when you said "when properly installed" which there is no way they could have been. I never once said "inferior" so please don't put words in my mouth, that's a word you chose to use.

It is VERY well known that factory parts hold up far past the threshold they were designed for or else no one would be able to make more than 175 hp of reliable power without the whole car falling apart. Factory parts are over-engineered...aftermarket parts are made to meet factory specifications...but often not made to surpass that like the OEM parts are.

I guarantee I can run all fel-pro gaskets and not have a failure...on a modified car at that...and I've done it many times. Now, do I choose more durable parts...yes, I do...we all do...just like running forged pistons for example. Some also choose to run ARP head studs when factory head bolts will take you into the 10's...and blah, blah, blah...you get the drift.

So I will clarify...there is nothing wrong with fel-pro gaskets...is there better? sure!...but they don't just up and fail on their own...especially in your case.

[dds78910]

Just step up to ARP.:nod:

[jckrieger]

I agree with BADANDY that there is nothing wrong with Felpro head gaskets. I think they fixed the design about 10 years ago (literally). The new design is super-strong and has been tested by me up to 35psi with massive detonation. They have also survived over 30K miles on unmachined heads/blocks that had over 200K miles on them.