I'm thinking bad valve seals or guides...

[Username]

...but more on the valve seals side of things. Here's the problem. The motor is fresh. Like 3000 miles fresh, yes the head was done so I'm thinking perhaps bad valve seal from the factory or some freak lone valve seal ninja attack. The car runs great, it just smokes after it's warm, and only coming off idle, like leaving from a light or something. The longer the idle, the worse the smoke. It will also smoke on start up sometimes. Sounding like valve seals and or guides eh? So I figured a little more trouble shooting to see what parts need fixin. Compression shows good for a barely broken in motor. Everything floats around 130 within 5-10psi. The leakdown was good. Oh yeah, it's a 2.2 with a g head in a glh-s. The motor was just rebuilt, rings, mains, rod bearings, crank turned, valve job, cylinders honed, new gaskets, seals, and head bolts. So after the compression and leak down tests I throw in some new plugs to see if I can see any signs of which cylinder is burning oil because all the old plugs look the same, and they all seem normal. I let it idle until I can gas it and it smokes pretty good. Then I pull the plugs and they all look new still, BUT the number 4 cylinder is smoking and yes it smells like oil. Just to be sure, I do it all again with the same result. So since I've never had a bad valve seal or guide on a TD motor to the point where it smokes like this, I wanted someone to back me up on my thoughts or tear em down. I've never had a head done where the shop doesn't check the guides and replace them or knurl them, that's why I blame the seals. So is anyone else thinking if I just replace both the seals on the no. 4 cylinder I should be good? Thanks in advance.-Jarrod

[cordes]

If you are getting oil on the plugs, but a leak down test is good I would think guides or seals so long as there isn't oil in the TB. Pull the VC and see what the seals look like. There isn't much to them so it should be fairly obvious if new ones are leaking.

[jckrieger]

You're not running Wiseco forged pistons by chance, are you? Also, what is the history of the turbo? It's hard to believe the car would burn that much oil even if the valve seal was missing entirely. My car had similar symptoms with a failing turbo, and also had issues with the Wiseco ring pack that shipped with the pistons. If you continue breaking in the motor and the #4 plug is consistently fouled, then you've already found the culprit. If the car is smoking bad, you should see some considerable fouling on the plug. My CSX would turn the plugs black and oily in a matter of about 100 miles.

[Username]

No I'm not running wiseco anything, and if it was the turbo wouldn't there have been oil smoke coming from all the cylinders? The plugs don't show oil fouling, and there was no oil on the new ones after I let it warm up till it smoked while tapping the throttle and then checked them. I'll pull the vc and check, but how bad could the seals look unless it's actually come unseated and is just kind of sitting out of place or up higher on the valve stem?

[cordes]

I don't know how bad they would have to look before they would leak. If you aren't getting oil on the plugs and you are blowing smoke it very well may be a turbo problem. Check your PCV system to make sure it is functioning properly and that you don't have any kinks or restrictions.

[Username]

PCV is good, I even pulled the vc and re-sealed the baffle and made a little "S" shaped extension from the nipple on the vc to the rubber splitter that goes to the intake and the air box to try and be sure oil wasn't making it's way up there. If it was the turbo is it common for it only to send oil to the number 4? I would imagine the turbo is cylinder blind and would share it with all of them unless the number 4 did something in the past to hurt its feelings. Also does anyone happen to know if the ford otc valve spring compressor works on our cars? The one with the 2 hooks that go on the cam and the piece on a pivot that pushes on the top of the valve spring, you work the whole assembly with a 3/8 inch ratchet. It looks promising but for all I know the hooks or something don't line up and I want to be sure before I buy it.http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-90518/
Click the link to see a pic. Summit has them pretty cheap and it 'd be real handy at the track. Thanks guys, any more ideas would be great.

[cordes]

If you are just getting oil in #4 then I would think it to be a ring/piston or guide/seal problem.

As far as the spring compressors go, this thread has the permanent info and viable links.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30445&highlight=valve+spring+compressor+tool

[turbovanman²]

If the turbo is bad, it will smoke in the cylinder as the smoke comes back up thru the exhaust valve when you shut it off. If your plugs are clean, then you are NOT burning it. So you have a exhaust guide/seal issue or bad turbo. Remove the DP and see if its wet or you can see oil.

[Username]

Dang it turbovanman! You could have brought this up earlier. Yes it's the turbo. What you said gave me an idea, so when I shut it off after a good drive I pulled the plugs again and smoke was coming out of the #3 cyl. this time, so I start rotating the motor by the crank and it smokes out of the #4, then the #2, the #1, so yes the exhaust seal on the turbo is bad. NOW...anyone ever pulled a turbo without yanking the head or the motor? If so, please speak up. I'm thinking pull the accessories, the radiator and fan, all the airbox stuff and hoses, and front mount, then unbolt the dog bone, and the side mount while the motor is chained to a hoist then rotate it forward to see if there's enough room. I know, just as much work as pulling the dang head, but it'll save me a headgasket and hardware. Let me know if it's easier than I'm making it. Thanks for the help finding the prob too fellas.

[cordes]

Dang it turbovanman! You could have brought this up earlier. Yes it's the turbo. What you said gave me an idea, so when I shut it off after a good drive I pulled the plugs again and smoke was coming out of the #3 cyl. this time, so I start rotating the motor by the crank and it smokes out of the #4, then the #2, the #1, so yes the exhaust seal on the turbo is bad. NOW...anyone ever pulled a turbo without yanking the head or the motor? If so, please speak up. I'm thinking pull the accessories, the radiator and fan, all the airbox stuff and hoses, and front mount, then unbolt the dog bone, and the side mount while the motor is chained to a hoist then rotate it forward to see if there's enough room. I know, just as much work as pulling the dang head, but it'll save me a headgasket and hardware. Let me know if it's easier than I'm making it. Thanks for the help finding the prob too fellas.

I've done it both ways many times. I'll try to search for my method which I've posted up on here before.

[Username]

I read a couple posts of people pulling them out the top over the tranny, if this works for l-bodies which require the person working on it to be double jointed in most cases, then I'm set. Can anyone vouch for pulling it out the top in an omni or charger?? BTW since I thought it was the valve seals, I now have a very handy tool I made to compress the springs in the car without pulling the cam. Looks similar to the ford tool, but the hooks are wide enough to fit over the roller lobes(not 88 since I have 89's in my cars). Only cost me some time a little argon and some steel wire. At least some good has come from this.

[cordes]

I read a couple posts of people pulling them out the top over the tranny, if this works for l-bodies which require the person working on it to be double jointed in most cases, then I'm set. Can anyone vouch for pulling it out the top in an omni or charger?? BTW since I thought it was the valve seals, I now have a very handy tool I made to compress the springs in the car without pulling the cam. Looks similar to the ford tool, but the hooks are wide enough to fit over the roller lobes(not 88 since I have 89's in my cars). Only cost me some time a little argon and some steel wire. At least some good has come from this.

I can get a hybrid turbo out of an omni over top of the trans. I've gotten pretty good at it, but it took some practice.

[jckrieger]

I always pull the passenger side axle and drop the turbo out the bottom. It's always better when she's on top :)