Turbonator SBEC Codebase

[ShelGame]

Turbonator SBEC Codebase. This is very similar to the T-SMEC codebase, but obvioulsy set to run on the SBEC.

Features:

1) Knock Indicator – This feature flashes the ‘Check Engine’ lamp whenever the timing is being retarded due to knock. It’s a useful feature to feedback to the driver when you should back off to save your engine.

2) Switchable boost – This allows a ‘LOW’ boost setting to be used when a switch is applied. Unfortunately, it must be one of the existing inputs to the SMEC (Cruise, A/C, P/N switch, etc.). But, these can be ‘doubled up’ – IE, you can have the cruise on/off switch work for both hi/lo boost as well as cruise. This is similar in operation to the S60 boost switch feature, though without the timing adjustment for low octane fuel.

3) Staging Limiter (2-Step) – This feature allows a lower than normal rev limit to be set. This lower limit can be enabled by a low speed cutoff (usually 2-10mph), and/or a switch (usually the brake switch for auto cars). The lower rev limit is useful for launching the car in a drag race.

4) Spark-Cut Rev Limiter – Added the ability to specify a spark-cut to be used for the rev limit instead of a fuel-cut (which is the stock operation). When used in conjunction with the staging limiter, this gives much more precise control of the RPM while staging. The fuel-cut typically has a ~500rpm swing. The spark-cut staging limiter can get down to ~200rpm.

5) Anti-lag Retard – Anti-Lag is a feature that helps spool the turbo. For this release of T-SBEC, anti-lag has been completely re-written (same functionality as T/SMEC). Previously, anti-lag retarded the timing proportionally to the difference from boost target. Now, the Anti-lag timing is a pre-set value and it only works during staging (though, it will work with either the spark-cut or fuel-cut limiters). The anti-lag/staging advance can be set anywhere from -16 to +16 degrees.

6) Alky Injection – This feature is available, but not included in the standard build. Please PM me if you are interested in using it. Due to space and time limitations, I commented it out. But, it can easily be re-enabled for those that are interested.

7) Customized Boost Control – Added some custom code and an additional table to modify the WG duty Cycle as an anti-lag measure. Basically, the WGDC is set to 100% during transients to keep the WG from seeing the manifold pressure and releasing the exhaust gases early.

8) Modified Dwell Calculation - Added Dwell compensation for battery volts. This will maintain better dwell control than the stock code. Should improve ignition performance at WOT (when the alternator shuts off and battery voltage can drop).

9) 150% Pumping Efficiency Table Scale - Not working, disabled for now.

10) PTU (Lock-up) solenoid operation – Added PTU capability to the SMEC codebase. This is the exact same functionality as the stock 3.0 and later 4-cylinder turbo and TBI ECU’s.

11) Decel Fuel Cut - This will cut fuel (completely) on decel for fuel economy improvement. Currently only works on MT trans cals. This is actually stock function in the factory SBEC cals.

12) WB2NB - This is a feature that will allow you to feed a 0-5v WB signal directly into the SBEC thru the exsisting O2 sensor input (same functionaility as T/SMEC). The code will automatically convert the signal to a NB range for use in the stock feedback machansim. The WB AFR is stored in RAM so that it can be read and logged using MP Tune. There is also a constant value that can be used to offse the entire NB signal to force the engine to run richer or leaner in feedback mode.

07/13/15 - V4.1 now posted:
For use only with MP Tuner 2

- Added Spark-Cut Rotating Launch Control/Staging Limiter from T/SMEC.
- Updated table grouping common with T/SMEC.
- WB2NB Function added.


Download T/SBEC V4.1 (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwcPBhg2fwrIT3lUbENwSl81YWc)

[ShelGame]

Just for reference; Before I split the template data off and added in the Turbonator code, I assembled this back to a 100% byte-for-byte exact duplicate of the original binary. So, I'm fairly confident that any problems will be strictly in the Turbonator code and should be easy to track down and fix. Hopefully, there won't be any problems...

[cordes]

I'm glad to see this coming out Rob. Thanks again for all the work you put into these.

[zin]

Big Big Thanks for all your efforts on our behalf! :hail::hail:

Mike

[jl93sundance]

:hail::hail::hail::hail:

Anybody try it yet?

[jl93sundance]

While messing around scaling for 2.5 with +20's in chem2 it goes crazy I attached a screen shot. Whats the deal with this?http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15683&stc=1&d=1245987101

[djtang]

Thank you so much Rob! Don't know how I'd get along without your efforts!

[ShelGame]

While messing around scaling for 2.5 with +20's in chem2 it goes crazy I attached a screen shot. Whats the deal with this?http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15683&stc=1&d=1245987101

Yeah, I missed the assembler directive that told the assembler where to put the cal data. It's fixed now and reposted...

Also, I forgot to mention, the 2-bar option isn't finished yet. Still working on it. The cal data is only complete for the 3-bar build right now.

[moparzrule]

Awaiting MTX version to try this....will you also be putting in the CEL flash on knock Rob?

[ShelGame]

CEL flash is in there. Sorry, it should be in the options list above...

[moparzrule]

For an MTX can't I just de-select auto trans bit?

[ShelGame]

For an MTX can't I just de-select auto trans bit?

Unfortunately, there's more to it than just that switch. There are many calibration chnages, too.

[zin]

Unfortunately, there's more to it than just that switch. There are many calibration chnages, too.

Being the dangerous noob to do-it-yourself cals, I'd be very curious what those differences are. It seems to my noob mind that they wouldn't be very different as the engines (so far as I know) are the same (cam, etc), with the only real difference being how the IAC behaves when coming to a stop...

Please learn me some good stuff!:D

Mike

[ShelGame]

Being the dangerous noob to do-it-yourself cals, I'd be very curious what those differences are. It seems to my noob mind that they wouldn't be very different as the engines (so far as I know) are the same (cam, etc), with the only real difference being how the IAC behaves when coming to a stop...

Please learn me some good stuff!:D

Mike

That's a lot of it, but the primary mehod of controlling idle is by spark scatter. And, those calibration values are also different manual to auto...

[zin]

That's a lot of it, but the primary mehod of controlling idle is by spark scatter. And, those calibration values are also different manual to auto...

Trying... to... resist..... urge.... to ask more questions..... Awe hell! what is this spark scatter you speak of, sounds like the computer gets goofy with the ignition timing? I'll try to not use you up too much!(more) :thumb:

Mike

[ShelGame]

Pretty much. The AIS motor is really used as a last resort. They use spark scatter to control idle if at all possible. Then, there's fuel compensation for the spark scatter...

[zin]

Then, there's fuel compensation for the spark scatter...

DAMMIT!!! It's like you're baiting me... So they vary the fuel as they change the spark timing to control the engine speed... Does that mean the are leaning it out as they retard the timing, which makes some sense in my mind from an emissions stand-point, or is there something not-so-intuitive going on?

Mike

PS Thanks for taking the time to entertain my noob-ish questions, I do appreciate the info, hopefully other do too!

[ShelGame]

Well, you've reached the limits of my understanding of how it works...

[zin]

Well, you've reached the limits of my understanding of how it works...

That or you see the never ending string of questions that the answers generate! ;) Thanks for helping a motivated noob understand this stuff a little better!

Mike

[jl93sundance]

:bump2:, Rob, just wondering if you had a chance to work on mtx template?

[ShelGame]

I'm going to hold off and release a new version with all of the templates for SBEC when wowzers new editor is ready for release. There are some changes to the template/asm (really minor changes, except for the MAP scaling) and I don't see the point of releasing it twice. Just too confusing.

[ShelGame]

Ok, so T-SBEC also has the same 150% PumpEff scaling that caused the misfire in T-SMEC. So, I'm taking it out. I'll be posting T-SBEC v2.1 soon...

[ShelGame]

OK, so I have completely re-written T-SBEC from the ground up. I have 8 templates ready to go (I think). But, I've only been able to test it once. It started and ran, but not quite right. So, I found and fixed a couple of errors in the code. Only now, I don't have access to an SBEC car anymore. I might again in the next couple of weeks, but if there is someone here that wants to test T-SBEC V2 for me in the meantime (and provide feedback), please let me know. I'd like to get it published ASAP, but I want to confirm it's working right first.

[CNH320]

Hey Rob, Not sure how useful it would be (since its a VNT) but i could use my CSX to test out some of the features if there's a VNT template. Not sure how quick i could do it but i'd be willing to try it out if you cant find anyone else in the mean time. Just let me know some details of what you'd like for me to test out.

Chris

[ShelGame]

There are not one, but 2 VNT templates! They're identical except for the P/N - one's the CSX cal, the other is the Daytona VNT cal.

Can you burn your own cals? I do have one guy that can test it out for me...

[cordes]

I could throw it in my Shadow.

[CNH320]

Yep, i have a burner and some extra 87C257s. email is daytona_rt92 at yahoo dot com.

[ShelGame]

OK, I'm sending it out to Cordes, CNH320, and AZShadow. Please PM me (or e-mail me) with the tet results/issues, etc. I don't want to clog up this thread with test reports...

[turbovanman²]

Cool stuff Rob, :nod: :thumb:

[ShelGame]

Oh yeah, you got it to...

[ShelGame]

OK, had one positive test (thanks to AZShadow). So, I'm going to start adding in the 2-step and switchable boost code. I'll send that out for a test release (which should be trivial, since the code is the same as T-SMEC). When I get positive results back, I'll post T-SBECv2 for general consumption...

[ShelGame]

Anyone get to test T-SBEC yet? I'd like to post it up, but I want to confirm it's working OK...

[ShelGame]

Anyone else want to test it? I need to confirm it's working right before I post it for public use. I don't have an SBEC car anymore :(

[Aries_Turbo]

i would say send it to sean campbell but testing a 2.4L swap with partially tested code is going to introduce too many variables. i dont have any SBEC stuff unfortunately. just LM for the moment.

Brian

[turbovanman²]

Not yet, the guys engine is still being put together, should be very soon.

[ShelGame]

Anyone? Need test results...

[cordes]

Anyone? Need test results...

I have been spending each weekend indoors or out in the rain with no end in sight. I hope to have it tested soon though, because I would like to take the +40s etc. off of my Shadow and put them on my 600.

[AzShadow]

I'm having some sort of electrical hardware issue with my car thats not allowing me to do custom cals right now :(

[ShelGame]

Anyone else interested in testing this before I release it? It really just needs 1 more positive test and I'll post it up...

[ShelGame]

Ok, V2.2 is now posted. I'm reasonably sure this is correct now, but it has not been extensively tested. Someone please try it and post up some feedback for me...

[inmyshadow]

I'd like to try out your T-SBEC, but have questions.

First, I've been using Dcal 1.20 and 90MP_MTX_3-Bar_Sw-Bst_+40b.bin. Its also been a year since I've played with my cal. It has been running fine for me until somebody suggested that I'm a running outdated cal.

I did try Phospate 2.0 last year. The timing and fuel didn't meet my needs and didn't seem to like dcal making changes. No matter what I did, it never worked. Hence going back to my 90MP_MTX_3-Bar_Sw-Bst_+40b.bin setup.

When looking over TSBEC's asm file, I'm completely lost. I don't see the where the flags are to be set. Nor do I see a program to comply the ASM file once I've choosen the flags for my setup.

Is there any documentation on using TSBEC?

[ShelGame]

You really need to get MP Tuner to fully use the templates as intended. You can do it the CHeM2 way, but you'll lose the ease of MAP scaling. And, you'll have to do some manual editing od the .asm to get it to compile the correct template.

MP Tuner is the top sticky in this section...

[inmyshadow]

Thanks, now I have a good starting point to relearn.

[Aries_Turbo]

yeah, mptuner makes it a snap to set up the cal.

its a little klunky with the AFR setup (ie, matching the map fuel tables to the green line in chem2) but it works.

Brian

[1BADVAN]

ok i PMed you but i thought i would list it here for all to see too. I have seen that others have problems with it idling high, but i think there is a code problem and here is why.
When i burn the Stock cal from the stock cal repository NOT TSBEC, it idles fine, but the file won't open right in MPtuner
But when i burn a stock cal in TSBEC the car idles at 2500 rpm and wont come down.???
Is something in the spark scatter idle messed up?

[ShelGame]

r2.3 now posted: Removed some forgotten '.org' statements that caused overlapping code. Would not give a compile error, but made bad code that would (oddly) still run a car - poorly. Also added a new template (A596). It's VNT template, nearly identical to the A415 except for some overboost constants.

Anyone that was having trouble with v2.2, try this update. v2.2 definitely had problems...

[ShelGame]

DL'd 6 times, but no feedback? Is this a 'No news is good news' type of deal I hope?

[risen]

DL'd 6 times, but no feedback? Is this a 'No news is good news' type of deal I hope?

Well one of those was me just because I wanted to look through the code. Curiousity may be a good number of the dl count.

[AzShadow]

maybe i missed it, but was this ever updated for 2 bar or is it still only 3bar?

[ShelGame]

No, it's fully operational now (where's that Admiral Akbar smiley?). You can edit it in MP Tuner just like the other codebases. You can make a 4-bar if you want too.

I have templates for the 'major' SBEC versions - 2.5 T1 MTX and ATX, Mopar Perf, 2.2 VNT, and the 2.5 HT. Both the VNT and Turbo boost control code is in there, so you could pretty easily make a 2.5 VNT if you were so inclined...

[ShelGame]

As soon as I can confirm that my T-SMEC dwell code is working correctly, I'll add that to T-SBEC also. See the T-SMEC thread for more info...

[ShelGame]

Doh! Found some errors in one of the VNT tables. And, the flag bit I was using for the Charge Temp Sensor appears to be used already. That might be causing a fuel issue. I'm updating the code now...

[Aries_Turbo]

question... this actually spans all of the turbonator lines.... LM, SMEC and SBEC....

how are all these code mods effecting the overall speed of the code/main loop?

we are already rpm limited with the stock code with nothing else running in the background.

just curious.

Brian

[ShelGame]

I don't think I've hit the wall, yet. At least not on the SMEC/SBEC. The main loop has a counter that makes it run every 11ms, no faster. I haven't seen any evidence that this counter is maxed out, though I haven't looked lately. Maybe I should.

Even still, all that would mean is that the A/D channels are loop behind in their updates. I can see it being a problem, but not a huge problem. There aren't many of these engines that make power much over 6k.

If it becomes a problem for someone that spins that high, the simple solution is to start removing some of the subroutines we don't really need - EMR, Purge, EGR, some of the diagnostics, etc.

[Aries_Turbo]

if you get a chance, lemme know what the potential rpm headroom is of a smec and sbec.

2.0L dohc can rev that high and make power up there and some folks are going to 2.0L custom cranks in their 8v setups.

Brian

[ShelGame]

Actually, the 11mSec isn't going to be the problem. The problem might be in the length of the distributor interrupt routine. That routine has to run everytime a blade passes thru the main HEP (there's a separate routine for the sync pickup). It runs on both rising and falling edges, or 2 times for every blade, 4 blades per rotation, 1 rotation for every 2 crank rotations. So, at 8k rpm, that routine has to complete in less than...

8000 rev/min / 60 sec/min = 133rev/sec X 2 = 267cycles/sec / 4 blades/cycle = 66.7 blades/sec X 2 edges/blade = 133 interrupts/sec or 7.5mSec to complete the routine. It's a pretty decent size routine, but I think the SMEC and SBEC can handle it.

I should be able to figure out a way to datalog the time it takes that routine to complete. Not a priority, though...

[Aries_Turbo]

Not a priority, though...

yeah i know. :) debugging is. :)

Brian

[Dan15]

So on the first page of this thread there isn't anywhere to download the newest version??? Maybe i'm missing it somehow but i guess i'm thinking it'd be like the SMEC thread?

[ShelGame]

Yeah, I took it down casue the last build was bad. I haven't posted the latest becuase I haven't confirmed it's working correctly. Care to test it out?

[ShelGame]

I went ahead and posted v2.4. My only concern at this point (other than it not being tested at all) is whether or not the RAM locations I chose actually exsist or not. They are in the proprietary PSD chip, so I have no way ot identify the memory map there. However, I think they should be OK (otherwise I wouldn't have chosen them). So please feedback to me if the Turbonator options don't seem to be working (specifically anti-lag and the staging limiter).

[Dan15]

Yeah, I took it down casue the last build was bad. I haven't posted the latest becuase I haven't confirmed it's working correctly. Care to test it out?

Sure I could give them a whirl on my dads SBEC 2.5 in his van.
Give me a few days probably though.


I went ahead and posted v2.4. My only concern at this point (other than it not being tested at all) is whether or not the RAM locations I chose actually exsist or not. They are in the proprietary PSD chip, so I have no way ot identify the memory map there. However, I think they should be OK (otherwise I wouldn't have chosen them). So please feedback to me if the Turbonator options don't seem to be working (specifically anti-lag and the staging limiter).

Ok I'll make sure to test the staging limiter. And with the anti lag i've never really turned it on and off to test so is it a pretty noticeable difference when you've had it working and not working on the SMEC's?

[ShelGame]

Great. Let me know how it works...

[ShelGame]

Anyone try this yet? I need some feedback on it before I do the next round of mods to it...

[ShelGame]

10/05/10 - r2.5 now posted:
- Fixed a couple of hardware reference tables that had a missing value or two.

[1BADVAN]

i tried to use it today but my chip adapter or something is not working right

[1BADVAN]

btw it rand for a while before the chips messed up and it was the FIRST time i got the T-SBEC to idle correctly :) so something is better at least for me

[AzShadow]

ill try it out soon...i need to start working on my car again.

my car ran good the first try on one of the previous versions then ran like poo and idled terrible (could be related to something else tho.) shortly after. ill post up my results when i get the chance with the new version

[AzShadow]

tried it out this afternoon, compiled the "T-SBEC_25_ATX_A577_Stock" in mptuner and only changed scaling for injectors to 52 lbs/hr and map to 3 bar.

when i turn the key on the fuel pump will prime for a split second, car cranks but wont fire.

tried the same steps using "T-SBEC_25_ATX_1336_MP" and got it to error out when trying to "tune" it in mptuner. eventually froze the program.

Loaded the same files, with the same two scaling changes from the previous version of tsbec and it will start the car but idles pretty bad (ar around 10)

[ShelGame]

tried it out this afternoon, compiled the "T-SBEC_25_ATX_A577_Stock" in mptuner and only changed scaling for injectors to 52 lbs/hr and map to 3 bar.

when i turn the key on the fuel pump will prime for a split second, car cranks but wont fire.

tried the same steps using "T-SBEC_25_ATX_1336_MP" and got it to error out when trying to "tune" it in mptuner. eventually froze the program.

Loaded the same files, with the same two scaling changes from the previous version of tsbec and it will start the car but idles pretty bad (ar around 10)

OK, thanks for the feedback. I'll look it over tomorrow. Must be something simple, I didn't change that much...

[AzShadow]

also as a side note, this is the first time i've really done anything with my 3bar (brand new from turbos unleashed). mechanical vacuum gauge reads 18"ish at idle, but scanner reads 11" vacuum at idle...

[ShelGame]

Scanners will not read a 3-bar MAP correctly (ever) because they basically just get a value and scale it themselves. Unless you have the scanner reprogramed to read the value as a 3-bar MAP (not likely), you'll just have to do the conversion yourself. Multiply the scanner value by 3/2 (or 1.5 or 150%).

[wowzer]

OK, thanks for the feedback. I'll look it over tomorrow. Must be something simple, I didn't change that much...

rob - the following table is corrupted ( i think the .chem 0 stuff needs to go):

LOWBST_AllowedBoostLo:
chem2 group "Boost - Target Lookup"
.chem 0 1 AllowedBoostLo RPM 0 8192 rpm Boost 0 29.4 psi LOWBST Boost_Allowed_from_RPMs._Boost_is_defined_as_MAP_r eading_above_Baro
chem2 table LOWBST simple use "RPM" 0 8192 "rpm" use "Boost" 0 29.4 "psi" "Boost Allowed from RPMs. Boost is defined as MAP reading above Baro"
chem2 group "Boost - Target Lookup"
.chem 3 1 AllowedBoostLo in_desc 0 255 in Boost 0 29.4 psi LOWBST Low_boost_setting._Boost_is_defined_as_MAP_reading _above_Baro
chem2 byte LOWBST use "in desc" 0 255 "in" "Low boost setting. Boost is defined as MAP reading above Baro"
.byte 0x57

i don't know if that is why mptuner locked up or not. after correcting the table let me know if you can replicate the program freezing up. thanks.

[ShelGame]

That looks like it's only in the 1336 template. I fixed it now.

I also found a couple more assembler directive issues that I've fixed. I'm still looking to make sure I got everything. I'll post v2.6 this afternoon, I think, with these updates.

[Dan15]

Well i guess the reason 1badvan and I have been having problems is because we didn't have the latest software for the burner. We should be able to do some more testing and we'll keep you posted on how it goes.

[ShelGame]

Dan, 1badvan, azshadow - PM me your e-mail addy. I have an updated .asm I'd prefer you try...

[AzShadow]

Dan15 or 1badvan, any luck?

[1BADVAN]

I got the file but no testing done yet it is my burner but my dads van has the sbec my van was converted to smec, so I will prob need until tomorrow or Saturday to give it a whirl

[ShelGame]

Anyone try the test version I sent out?

[1BADVAN]

sorry not yet if my darn professors stop giving tests every week i might have time for some fun. I hope to soon.

[AzShadow]

yeah i tried out the latest one you emailed me. still getting the same result of quick prime, crank no start for both the stock and mp atx ones. no errors on the mp one tho like last time. wasnt able to check spark as i was cranking tho as i did not have a helper.

[ShelGame]

OK, I'm going to try something else and send out another test version...

[ShelGame]

I sent you guys a new version to try out. I found the reason for the no-start, another dis-assembly error (well, I forgot to convert some data from literal to referenced values...). Try it out and let me know how it works. I'm hoping it at least starts now...

[shackwrrr]

yeah i tried out the latest one you emailed me. still getting the same result of quick prime, crank no start for both the stock and mp atx ones. no errors on the mp one tho like last time. wasnt able to check spark as i was cranking tho as i did not have a helper.

That was the same problem I was having with the cal that Rob sent me. So hopefully the new version fixes that for me. Thanks for all the help Rob

[ShelGame]

Well, the version I sent the volunteer tester last night definitely had a problem that would cause a no-start as I had code branching into unknown territory - could've been the middle of another block of code. That is fixed now. But that doesn't mean there aren't other issues to sort out. I do have confidence that it should be correct now, but you never know until you try...


That was the same problem I was having with the cal that Rob sent me. So hopefully the new version fixes that for me. Thanks for all the help Rob

I'll get a new chip out to you as soon as I can get confirmation that it's working now.

[AzShadow]

the latest version (emailed out oct 19th) yielded the same results...:confused2:

i am however playing with a an older version (maybe 3 or 4 iterations ago?) that seems to run the car pretty well. just trying to get a feel for how to adjust things with it.

[ShelGame]

Let me know which version it is that runs well. I can compare them and maybe figure it out...

[AzShadow]

version 2.2

edit* using the stock atx template btw

[ShelGame]

Hmm, v2.2 really shouldn't run right. It's got some bad code in it...

[AzShadow]

Hmm, v2.2 really shouldn't run right. It's got some bad code in it...

strange for sure...:confused2::confused2::confused2:

anybody else try the new code out?

[ShelGame]

OK, found a couple of issues still in there. I need to put the code 'back together' for T-SBEC and I'll send out a new version to try...

[ShelGame]

OK, new test version sent out...

[AzShadow]

same symptoms still....:( anybody else try out the latest???

[ShelGame]

What are the exact symptoms.

[AzShadow]

Fuel pump primes for a split second, crank, no start.

[ShelGame]

Do you hear the injectors fire off the prime pulse when the fuel pump/ASD cycles?

[ShelGame]

Also, will it flash out codes? If so, let me know which ones it has. Might be a clue in there what's going on...

[AzShadow]

im always in the car when i turn the key on so idk about hearing the injectors fire.. is this something i can hear or how do i check this?

also, im not getting a cel, but i can certainly hook up my scanner and see if its throwing any codes

[ShelGame]

You can try the scanner, too. Mostly, I wanted to know if it will flash the codes out the CEL. You should get at least a 12 and a 55. That will tell me if the main program loop is running, or if the code is hung up somewhere else, possibly on initialization. If the scanner communicates with the ECU, that pretty much tells me the same thing.

So far, just looking thru the code, I can't see why it would not start. I did find a couple more small errors, but nothing that should cause a no-start...

[ShelGame]

I found a potentially huge problem. There is a minimum injector PW for distributor sync. I converted this to a constant value so that it could be adjusted for injector sizing. However, I wrote the definition wrong in the asm file. It was using an insanely high # for the minimum PW. So, I fixed that (and a couple of other minor issues) and sent out a new version to test. Let me know how the new one works out...

[zin]

I found a potentially huge problem. There is a minimum injector PW for distributor sync.

Wow, they really set a minimum PW?... Does the math potentially have the injectors running negative or something?

Just showing my ignorance of the binary world!:p

Mike

PS I was looking for my favorite calculator (NS1 for years), and noticed a calculator that either worked in binary or converted... Is that something you would have use of? If so I can make an effort to remember the model number the next time I happen to see one...

[ShelGame]

The PW can't be negative. It's always a positive number. For some reason, in the SBEC, they have a minimum PW for distributor sync. At least, that's what it looks like to me. It's a very small number. And, actually, I'm not even sure it should be scaled for injectors. I think it has more to do with the timing of the distributor interrupt routine (which calculates the injector PW). So, it's kind of a minimum time, because that's how long it takes to calculate. If the PW was smaller than that, the next interrupt might occur before the injection cycle could take place. Just my guess. I need to study it more.

I use the windows calculator usually. It converts between hex, binary, and decimal. I should probably go and find a programmers calculator for windows, but the built-in version seems to work OK for me - so far.

[ShelGame]

Did you guys get the new version OK?

[1BADVAN]

i got it but to be honest it will be a while before i can try it sorry :(

[ShelGame]

i got it but to be honest it will be a while before i can try it sorry :(

Doh! No problem.

Anyone else want to give it a try? I should have the harness necessary to convert my van over to SBEC soon. But, it will be a couple of weeks before I can actually install it and get it running on the SBEC...

[shackwrrr]

Tomarrow I should be getting my ostrich so if you have my cal ready you could send that to me in the newest version I can try it out this weekend.

[ShelGame]

OK, will do.

Also, I got the SBEC and harness for my van today :)

[ShelGame]

Tomarrow I should be getting my ostrich so if you have my cal ready you could send that to me in the newest version I can try it out this weekend.

Ian - I just sent you your cal files updated to the latest version of T-SBEC.

[shackwrrr]

It runs. not the greatest but it runs. Im not sure yet if the running problem is another cal problem but I havent messed with it. It runs about a 8.5:1 idle and the more throttle you give it the leaner it gets. Its starts though.

For the time being, I just loaded the stock 2.5 MTX cal.

[ShelGame]

Hmm, OK. At least it starts now...

[shackwrrr]

well dont know yet. I think the ostrich needs returned its messing up more and more now

[ShelGame]

If anyone else gets a chance to try this, please let me know. Doesn't look like I'm going to have time to convert my van over to SBEC this weekend...

[AzShadow]

just tried it and it WORKS!!!!!:eyebrows:

Thanks man :clap:

idled rich like it always does but i played around with the baseline from map table and leaned it out and she is good. all seems happy, gotta get it out to the track to actually run it and start playing with everything. pretty pumped tho!

[AzShadow]

well dont know yet. I think the ostrich needs returned its messing up more and more now

This happened to me, my ostrich would work sometimes and sometimes it wouldnt. it was blowing my mind trying to diagnose it. eventually sent it back, and it must have been bad because they sent me a new one and so far so good

[shackwrrr]

I am going to try it again tonight, I did a harware reset on my ostrich and re-updated the firmware.

[Aries_Turbo]

idled rich like it always does but i played around with the baseline from map table and leaned it out and she is good. all seems happy, gotta get it out to the track to actually run it and start playing with everything. pretty pumped tho!

if you scaled the map tables (fuelbaselinefrommap, fuelpartthrottle, fuelfullthrottle) properly for injectors and engine size (aka the standard mptuner scale) then you should be adjusting the idle fuel with pumpingefficiency.

scale those maptables and leave them alone. everyone wants to go mess with them first but its the pumpingefficiency that needs to be dialed in first.

Brian

[ShelGame]

just tried it and it WORKS!!!!!:eyebrows:

Thanks man :clap:

idled rich like it always does but i played around with the baseline from map table and leaned it out and she is good. all seems happy, gotta get it out to the track to actually run it and start playing with everything. pretty pumped tho!

I want to double check the fuel scaling - how did you setup the cal?

And, what do you mean by 'always rich'? With this cal? Or any cal?

[AzShadow]

if you scaled the map tables (fuelbaselinefrommap, fuelpartthrottle, fuelfullthrottle) properly for injectors and engine size (aka the standard mptuner scale) then you should be adjusting the idle fuel with pumpingefficiency.

scale those maptables and leave them alone. everyone wants to go mess with them first but its the pumpingefficiency that needs to be dialed in first.

Brian

Thanks! this is really the first time i've ever started playing with this stuff so ill do it this way now


I want to double check the fuel scaling - how did you setup the cal?

And, what do you mean by 'always rich'? With this cal? Or any cal?

used the stock atx cal. changed injectors to 52 lbs and map to 3 bar.

runs rich with this cal, and the older version 2.2 i believe it was. when i had the stock injectors and 2 bar in there and a stock cal from the repository it was fine.

[ShelGame]

runs rich with this cal, and the older version 2.2 i believe it was. when i had the stock injectors and 2 bar in there and a stock cal from the repository it was fine.

OK, thanks. So, it's not hardware. Don't go adjusting too much just yet; or at least don't get too attached to your changes. I want to double check the fuel scaling and make sure I have all the tables included and scaled the correct direction.

Can you tell me, when it it rich? Always? Cold start? Warm Start? WOT, P/T, Idle, etc.

Thanks again for testing this for me...

[AzShadow]

OK, thanks. So, it's not hardware. Don't go adjusting too much just yet; or at least don't get too attached to your changes. I want to double check the fuel scaling and make sure I have all the tables included and scaled the correct direction.

Can you tell me, when it it rich? Always? Cold start? Warm Start? WOT, P/T, Idle, etc.

Thanks again for testing this for me...

cold start (about 10.0) then once its warms it will idle around (10.5) p/t in park it leans out some. steady 2000 rpm it will be around 13.0 ish. i cant take it out for a drive cuz its not registered so i cant say much more than that.

i adjusted the low rpm pumping efficiency to around 63% and it made it idle 14.5-15.0 but then hesitates (leans out) on quick throttle blips. if that helps any

[shackwrrr]

cold start (about 10.0) then once its warms it will idle around (10.5) p/t in park it leans out some. steady 2000 rpm it will be around 13.0 ish. i cant take it out for a drive cuz its not registered so i cant say much more than that.

i adjusted the low rpm pumping efficiency to around 63% and it made it idle 14.5-15.0 but then hesitates (leans out) on quick throttle blips. if that helps any

Those are about the same numbers I was getting on mine. When It approached 0 on the boost gauge it would lean out and break up.

[ShelGame]

cold start (about 10.0) then once its warms it will idle around (10.5) p/t in park it leans out some. steady 2000 rpm it will be around 13.0 ish. i cant take it out for a drive cuz its not registered so i cant say much more than that.

i adjusted the low rpm pumping efficiency to around 63% and it made it idle 14.5-15.0 but then hesitates (leans out) on quick throttle blips. if that helps any

What P/N are your +40's? I still think there are some of the later '+40's' flow more like 58pph. I think Mopar mistakenly spec'd them at 43psi fuel pressure for some of the later versions. Which means they'll flow more at our 55psi fuel pressure. Have you run these injectors with any other cal? One of the older stock-based +40 SBEC cals maybe?

[AzShadow]

i would have to check but i bought them 12/2008 from FWD. so perhaps the later ones? And no ive never run them with any other cal.

[ShelGame]

It sounds like they're rich all the time, to me. Without you being able to drive it, it's hard to tell, though.

I've had this problem with other +40's before. One set of +40's will be fine, another set runs rich with the exact same fuel injector scaling...

[AzShadow]

ok ive got some things to report...bear with me here

I went to change the scale on my injectors to 58 pph. i load the cal on my car, get in it and try to start it and my battery was TOTALLY DEAD. it was about a week since i last started the car. My battery is about 5 months old (brail no weight). I figured i left the key in the acc mode or something. i could jump the car and it would run. tested the voltage at the posts, terminals, and alternator. all looked good at around 14.5volts but i couldnt get it to charge the battery enough so if it stalled i couldnt restart it without a jump. I took the battery to the local parts store and had them test it. battery is rated at 350 amps and it was only putting out like 43. i bought a charger and trickle charged the battery @ 2 amps. tried it out and it fired right up. started it like 7 times and the battery seemed good each time. so i THINK i got that figured out...just totally dead battery and needed a good charge.

so here is where you come in/care. i noticed a noise coming from my engine bay after the car is turned OFF. turns out the noise was coming from the AIS motor. i remove the motor (with it still plugged in and the car OFF) and it was slightly rotating back and forth AND i noticed a high pitch (very low volume) whining noise coming from the SBEC area. i could hear it but my dad couldnt.

HMMMMM could this have drained my battery after a week? i think so.

So, maybe my ais is shot or??

so i decided to load a stock cal from the repository on there and the ais motor shut up and the high pitch squeal went away. turned the key ON (but didnt start it since its got the 3 bar and bigger injectors in there) then shut it OFF and rechecked for the noises and didnt hear anything

so i reloaded the TSBEC and the ais was quiet and no high pitch squeal. turned the key ON (but didnt start it) then shut it off and rechecked it. once again i hear the ais motor and the high pitch squeal.

so to end the night i just put the stock cal from the repository on the car so it would be making any noises and potentially drain my battery.

[ShelGame]

Ok, that's great feedback, thanks. I know where that is in the code. Let me check it out...

[turbovanman²]

What is that Rob?

[ShelGame]

Well, it must be in the shutdown routine, that's all. Since something is left on after key-off.

[AzShadow]

did you find the problem? i just got back from pinks all out in phx and now ive got the itch to get back to the track:eyebrows:

[ShelGame]

No didn't find it yet...

[shackwrrr]

I got my new ostrich in and hooked up, I seem to get the same leaning out that I did before. At startup and idle it is really rich. Any throttle input it goes really lean and will cut out. Also when it is cold it will act like it is overboosting at 5 in of vacuum. I will try to get a log of it tomarrow, the log wont have rpm though(too much noise).

[bakes]

Lets try this again what map are you using and what map have you got scaled for???

[AzShadow]

I got my new ostrich in and hooked up, I seem to get the same leaning out that I did before. At startup and idle it is really rich. Any throttle input it goes really lean and will cut out. Also when it is cold it will act like it is overboosting at 5 in of vacuum. I will try to get a log of it tomarrow, the log wont have rpm though(too much noise).

please do post up the log. im getting a similar real rich idle.

Aslo, Rob, did you ever find the cause of the issue i described in post #124 yet?

[ShelGame]

No, not yet. Actually, i re-assembled T-SBEC back to a stock binary. So, I know there are no errors in the code. I really don't understand it at all. I'm taking a look at the cal data now.

[shackwrrr]

Lets try this again what map are you using and what map have you got scaled for???

2bar/2bar, injectors scaled for 38pph(stockers at 65psi crushed regulator)

[Swart]

Any updates on this?

[ShelGame]

Haven't had time...

[AzShadow]

Any updates on this?

[ShelGame]

Haven't finished it yet.

[AzShadow]

Any progress?

[ShelGame]

Any progress?

Just found and fixed a bunch of bugs. Feel like testing it some more? I sent you an e-mail also...

[ShelGame]

If anyone else wants to test the new version to help confirm it, send me a PM with your e-mail. I don't have an SBEC car anymore, so I can't test this myself...

[ShelGame]

Get a chance to test it yet, Andy?

[ShelGame]

Any updates? If anyone else wants to try this out for me, just let me know and I'll make sure you get it...

[shackwrrr]

I would if my car was still running and not in pieces. I think you need to make a test stand with a custom harness that you can plug a LM, SMEC, or a SBEC. You could probably start with an SBEC harness and then make adapter harnesses that split off the signals to the other modules.

[risen]

I would if my car was still running and not in pieces. I think you need to make a test stand with a custom harness that you can plug a LM, SMEC, or a SBEC. You could probably start with an SBEC harness and then make adapter harnesses that split off the signals to the other modules.

Already done. See the smecstim thread. But it's still not possible to tell how *well* it will run a car.

[shackwrrr]

Already done. See the smecstim thread. But it's still not possible to tell how *well* it will run a car.

I am talking about an engine on a run stand setup with all the gaugery that you need.

[ShelGame]

I am talking about an engine on a run stand setup with all the gaugery that you need.

I'd rather just buy another car. Can't test anything but idle on a stand...

[1BADVAN]

I am talking about an engine on a run stand setup with all the gaugery that you need.
Well if you could do it on a stand why couldn't you build it in an actual car? have the 3 different hookups, or at least smec and sbec, you might need to switch a fuel rail harness too but that would be cool

[shackwrrr]

Well if you could do it on a stand why couldn't you build it in an actual car? have the 3 different hookups, or at least smec and sbec, you might need to switch a fuel rail harness too but that would be cool

That would work, As along as its a SBEC I think all of them should work since the sbec has 4 injector wires an you would just pair them up for the LM and smec.

[Aries_Turbo]

if you have some spare connectors for each, it shouldnt be too hard to make adapter harnesses to run a car on any of the ecu's.

Brian

[zin]

if you have some spare connectors for each, it shouldnt be too hard to make adapter harnesses to run a car on any of the ecu's.

Brian

That's an interesting idea! Not that it would be too practical for just anyone, but it is good to know that they are essentially interchangeable with a few adjustments to the wiring...

Mike

[cordes]

if you have some spare connectors for each, it shouldnt be too hard to make adapter harnesses to run a car on any of the ecu's.

Brian

I believe Russ as done this with his Daytona. IIRC it will run off of a SMEC or an LM. Wouldn't you need a different injector harness for the SBEC since it's sequential?

[shackwrrr]

I believe Russ as done this with his Daytona. IIRC it will run off of a SMEC or an LM. Wouldn't you need a different injector harness for the SBEC since it's sequential?

my thoughts were to start with an SBEC car so with the others you just pair up the injectors.

[zin]

I believe Russ as done this with his Daytona. IIRC it will run off of a SMEC or an LM. Wouldn't you need a different injector harness for the SBEC since it's sequential?

I think he was saying to jumper a sequential harness to be gang-fire then remove the jumpers when you go SBEC.

Mike

[cordes]

my thoughts were to start with an SBEC car so with the others you just pair up the injectors.

That would work.

[Aries_Turbo]

yeah they all run the same sensors, they all use the same injectors, its really all in the wiring.

the asd is going to be a little tricky though as its on the PM on the pre-87 stuff and external on the other cars iirc but its just a relay. shouldnt be bad at all.

i know A.J. did a writeup on using a SMEC on a LM car. i think i already transferred it to the new (and not quite complete yet) KC.

Brian

[ShelGame]

OK, a couple of guys were interested in trying out the new version. So, I'll post it here temporarily. When I get feedback, I'll pull this DL down. The front page will remain the main place to get the latest known good files.

[AzShadow]

i had a few minutes to try it today. it starts if i put a slight amount of pressure on the gas pedal and will idle if i do the same. if i let off the gas the rpms will go too low and it will stall. i put the low rpm pumping efficiency down to around 65% and got it to run w/o being stupid rich. it will rev fine but quick blips of the throttle will cause it to caugh and hit 16.0+ afrs. i am still getting that slight high pitch squealing noise from the SBEC area that i dont get if i have a stock bin on there....


I've suspected i have a bad AIS for a while now so im just going to order a new one and go from there and see if that helps anything and try it over again and get back to you.

[ShelGame]

i had a few minutes to try it today. it starts if i put a slight amount of pressure on the gas pedal and will idle if i do the same. if i let off the gas the rpms will go too low and it will stall. i put the low rpm pumping efficiency down to around 65% and got it to run w/o being stupid rich. it will rev fine but quick blips of the throttle will cause it to caugh and hit 16.0+ afrs. i am still getting that slight high pitch squealing noise from the SBEC area that i dont get if i have a stock bin on there....


I've suspected i have a bad AIS for a while now so im just going to order a new one and go from there and see if that helps anything and try it over again and get back to you.

Which template are you using to build from? I'll take another look at everything tomorrow...

[AzShadow]

The stock auto one

[ShelGame]

i had a few minutes to try it today. it starts if i put a slight amount of pressure on the gas pedal and will idle if i do the same. if i let off the gas the rpms will go too low and it will stall. i put the low rpm pumping efficiency down to around 65% and got it to run w/o being stupid rich. it will rev fine but quick blips of the throttle will cause it to caugh and hit 16.0+ afrs. i am still getting that slight high pitch squealing noise from the SBEC area that i dont get if i have a stock bin on there....


I've suspected i have a bad AIS for a while now so im just going to order a new one and go from there and see if that helps anything and try it over again and get back to you.

OK try this one. I think I had some bad cal data in the transient fuel tables for the 2.5 cals (2.2 were OK). Only the templates are updated here, not the .asm.

[AzShadow]

havent started the car since sunday and the battery was dead...not sure if it had to do with tsbec or not?

Anyways, I swapped in my new ais and tried the new template. The car fired right up and idled with no changes other than injector and map scaling. Had some lean hesitation but it got much better once it ran for 5 min or so. Overall it seemed pretty happy! I just gotta actually tune it now to get it better. Hoping I will be able to take it out soon to see how it does under boost/load but for now things are looking pretty good. Ill try to start it in a day or so and see if the battery hasnt drained

[ShelGame]

Awesome - keep me posted.

I'm going to go ahead and put v2 up on the front page so everyone can find it...

[ShelGame]

V2.7 Now posted...

[AzShadow]

Tried to start the car after it sat for a few days and the battery was dead. It doesnt die if I leave it sit with a stock cal on it..

[ShelGame]

I wonder why that would be?

[AzShadow]

No idea...ill retry letting it sit with a stock cal and confirm

[ShelGame]

No idea...ill retry letting it sit with a stock cal and confirm

Stock cal in the same computer? Or different stock computer?

[AzShadow]

Stock cal on the same computer with an ostrich and converter

[AzShadow]

Took the car out to the track wed and it felt good all night, no missing, afrs were good, everything seemed to be happy. Ran a new pb of 14.26 @ 94.7 on 13 lbs of boost that dipped to 10-11 lbs on the 2-3 shift. Still have the battery drainage issue and cant comment too nuch on part throttle performance but wot was good lol

[Swart]

Rob, I have a few questions about Turbonator:

- Does it work okay with factory and aftermarket scan tools (eg: Snap-on MT2500, OTC, etc.); such as the PID data displays, actuator tests, etc.?
- Has anyone else experienced the battery dying issue like AzShadow?

If no one has told you lately, I truly appreciate all of the hard work you do for these cars -- and especially the SBEC crowd.

Thanks again, sir! :thumb:

Regards,
Chuck

[ShelGame]

Rob, I have a few questions about Turbonator:

- Does it work okay with factory and aftermarket scan tools (eg: Snap-on MT2500, OTC, etc.); such as the PID data displays, actuator tests, etc.?

It should. The DRBII Routines and the address MAP are unchanged from stock.


- Has anyone else experienced the battery dying issue like AzShadow?

If no one has told you lately, I truly appreciate all of the hard work you do for these cars -- and especially the SBEC crowd.

Thanks again, sir! :thumb:

Regards,
Chuck

Thanks.

[ShelGame]

Took the car out to the track wed and it felt good all night, no missing, afrs were good, everything seemed to be happy. Ran a new pb of 14.26 @ 94.7 on 13 lbs of boost that dipped to 10-11 lbs on the 2-3 shift. Still have the battery drainage issue and cant comment too nuch on part throttle performance but wot was good lol

Do you still have the AIS issue? That itself could be running the battery down.

I confirmed the AIS thing myself this past weekend (I was using the 2.5 Auto template). Not sure what is causing that, though. I have to go thru the code with a comb and figure out why it would be running the AIS after key-off. It could be quite a few things...

[ShelGame]

OK, this could be the problem.


; LE6DA: jmp LE6C7 ; dead code?


This is a line in the shutdown routine. This is the routine that powers down the SBEC when the key is turned off. I had originally assumed the line above was an error on Chrysler's part becuase, as far as I can tell, this line of code can never ever be run. The same call is repeated twice. So, this one will never be run as in-line code either. But, the shutdown routine is the same in every single SBEC and SBECII assembly I have bothered to create (T1, TIII, V6, Mexico, etc.) - including this line. So, Chrysler must have put it in for a reason.

Take off the semi colon ";" in front of this line in the .asm file and see if the AIS issue goes away. I'm going to do a test with my R/T tonight and see if I can make the AIS cycle the same way in the T3 code by taking out the line above.

[AzShadow]

OK, this could be the problem.


; LE6DA: jmp LE6C7 ; dead code?


This is a line in the shutdown routine. This is the routine that powers down the SBEC when the key is turned off. I had originally assumed the line above was an error on Chrysler's part becuase, as far as I can tell, this line of code can never ever be run. The same call is repeated twice. So, this one will never be run as in-line code either. But, the shutdown routine is the same in every single SBEC and SBECII assembly I have bothered to create (T1, TIII, V6, Mexico, etc.) - including this line. So, Chrysler must have put it in for a reason.

Take off the semi colon ";" in front of this line in the .asm file and see if the AIS issue goes away. I'm going to do a test with my R/T tonight and see if I can make the AIS cycle the same way in the T3 code by taking out the line above.

Yeah i still have the ais issue. hopefully i will be able to try this out in the next couple of days.

[ShelGame]

I have no idea how it could be the issue, but you never know. Let me know if/when you get to try it...

[1BADVAN]

Just a TSBEC cal for my Dad's van, this was the first time i got it to run good on the first try. The other times it would idle at 2,000 RPM, the AFRs right out of the box were perfect at 11.8 with 10 psi, now to hook up the boost button SCI cable to start datalogging and Tune it :)

On a side note the AIS motor would click for about 30 secs after shutting it off the key

[ShelGame]

Just a TSBEC cal for my Dad's van, this was the first time i got it to run good on the first try. The other times it would idle at 2,000 RPM, the AFRs right out of the box were perfect at 11.8 with 10 psi, now to hook up the boost button SCI cable to start datalogging and Tune it :)

On a side note the AIS motor would click for about 30 secs after shutting it off the key

Only for 30 seconds? Then it stopped on it's own?

[AzShadow]

Just a TSBEC cal for my Dad's van, this was the first time i got it to run good on the first try. The other times it would idle at 2,000 RPM, the AFRs right out of the box were perfect at 11.8 with 10 psi, now to hook up the boost button SCI cable to start datalogging and Tune it :)

On a side note the AIS motor would click for about 30 secs after shutting it off the key

Forgot to mention but last time I had the car out it was idleing really high but only in gear...had to get on the brakes so I wouldn't break pit speed limit

[1BADVAN]

Only for 30 seconds? Then it stopped on it's own? Yeah, and im not sure but i think it stopped doing it at all, I will check again today

---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 AM ----------

Also to add i drove it to work today, it started and ran perfectly, with AFs at cruise around 14.1

[ShelGame]

Yeah, and im not sure but i think it stopped doing it at all, I will check again today

---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 AM ----------

Also to add i drove it to work today, it started and ran perfectly, with AFs at cruise around 14.1


OK, thanks. Just for reference, which template did you build your cal with?

[1BADVAN]

OK, thanks. Just for reference, which template did you build your cal with?

"T-SBEC_25_ATX_A577_Stock.v02"

[ShelGame]

I still didn't get a chance to try the fix I posted above. Anyone else? I'm going to try and do it tonight. 2 boys in baseball makes for a very busy week...

[1BADVAN]

I still didn't get a chance to try the fix I posted above. Anyone else? I'm going to try and do it tonight. 2 boys in baseball makes for a very busy week...



OK, this could be the problem.

Code:
; LE6DA: jmp LE6C7 ; dead code?
This is a line in the shutdown routine. This is the routine that powers down the SBEC when the key is turned off. I had originally assumed the line above was an error on Chrysler's part becuase, as far as I can tell, this line of code can never ever be run. The same call is repeated twice. So, this one will never be run as in-line code either. But, the shutdown routine is the same in every single SBEC and SBECII assembly I have bothered to create (T1, TIII, V6, Mexico, etc.) - including this line. So, Chrysler must have put it in for a reason.

Take off the semi colon ";" in front of this line in the .asm file and see if the AIS issue goes away. I'm going to do a test with my R/T tonight and see if I can make the AIS cycle the same way in the T3 code by taking out the line above.

This Fix? I could but i don't know where i am looking for that? Also today the van almost did not start due to a weak battery. This was the first time that happened but probably the first time the van sat for 18 hrs without being started.
When i got to work i checked under the hood, and i heard and "electrical whine or hum" from the area where the SBEC is. I disconnected the power and reconnected it and it went away.

[ShelGame]

This Fix? I could but i don't know where i am looking for that? Also today the van almost did not start due to a weak battery. This was the first time that happened but probably the first time the van sat for 18 hrs without being started.
When i got to work i checked under the hood, and i heard and "electrical whine or hum" from the area where the SBEC is. I disconnected the power and reconnected it and it went away.

Yes, that fix. It's in the .asm file. You'll have to edit it with a text editor (notepad should work OK). Just do a find for "LE6DA" and remove the semicolon [;] in front of the line.

I think that 'hum' is related to the AIS motor. Though, I didn't have the hum on the van I tested last weekend.

[1BADVAN]

Yes, that fix. It's in the .asm file. You'll have to edit it with a text editor (notepad should work OK). Just do a find for "LE6DA" and remove the semicolon [;] in front of the line.

I think that 'hum' is related to the AIS motor. Though, I didn't have the hum on the van I tested last weekend.
i assume i do this and then re-compile?

[ShelGame]

i assume i do this and then re-compile?

Yep...

[1BADVAN]

Ok i tried removing that semicolon and it was the same, the AIS motor clicked and there was an electrical Hum. IDK if it helps but the Phosphate 2.0 by Quantum (who says its based on your code) Does not cause the AIS clicking. IDK if there is a way to compare them easily or not. I will try to compile a different template and see what happens.

[ShelGame]

OK, thanks. I'll try it myself, too - still didn't get to it...

[ShelGame]

OK, fixed the AIS thing. I'm not really sure why this fixed it, but I had to move the AIS Bit pattern back to the stock location - in-line with the code. The T3 did NOT have this issue with relocating the AIS bit pattern, eventhough it has the exact same AIS control routine. Strange. Anyway, I'll post an update later. I want to take a quick look at the 2-step code tomorrow.

[1BADVAN]

Sweet I will be waiting! Thanks for all the help!

[ShelGame]

06/06/11 - r2.8 now posted:

Fixed the AIS motor issue (running with the key-off).

[1BADVAN]

Thanks! Works Great!

A quick question on boost control. I set the items under "boost Target lookup" to about 13, but all i could get was about 9 at first, then i put a restrictor in the line and it went to about 11. With the wastegate unhooked from any vac source it only goes to 16. My question is where to start? Do need to tighten up the wastegate can first, or try a smaller restrictor?
Also just to double check, i hook the vac lines up just like stock for my van right?

[ShelGame]

Should be setup just like the stock 2.5 T1 boost control. If the boost only goes to 16 with no vac lines hooked up, you probably need to tighten up the WGA. I had to try a couple of different restrictors to get mine to work at 18-20psi. I think I ended up with a 0.04".

[ShelGame]

v3 is released. Same as v2.8 except updated for compatibility with MP Tuner 2...

[1BADVAN]

Question. When it is cool outside like 50 degreesthe A/F is perfect like 11.8 bit when warmer like 70 it goes to 10.9 how can i fix that so it is always the same.?

[ShelGame]

Question. When it is cool outside like 50 degreesthe A/F is perfect like 11.8 bit when warmer like 70 it goes to 10.9 how can i fix that so it is always the same.?

The easiest way is to add the charge temp sensor and put it in the tube between the I/C and the throttle body.

[ShelGame]

08/30/11 - r3.1 now posted:
For use only with MP Tuner 2

- Updated the naming of the Decel Fuel Shutoff valules and added to a new separate group.
- Updated the Staging Limiter code. Was not working due to the decel fuel shutoff code.
- Added code to fix the CCD Fuel Monitor value.
- Split MPVACD_AllowMapToTestGoodThisNearBaro into 2 value to correct MAP scaling.
- Updated Staging Limiter code to work when no switch is selected (on speed only).
- Setup AESLOP to scale inversley with MAP (only in MPT 2.0.0.9)

[bfarroo]

When I open the 2.5 High Torque cal I get errors right away. I'm just now starting to modify the cal from SDAC and noticed that there was a update to the Turbonator codebase for a few things so before I get to far into it I wanted to start with the newer code. Here's the errors I am getting.

Warning->Unknown table definition code at location 6465, code = Trace

Warning->Unknown table definition code at location 8038, code = Trace

any ideas? I tried the MP one to and get two errors also but at a different location.

[ShelGame]

When I open the 2.5 High Torque cal I get errors right away. I'm just now starting to modify the cal from SDAC and noticed that there was a update to the Turbonator codebase for a few things so before I get to far into it I wanted to start with the newer code. Here's the errors I am getting.

Warning->Unknown table definition code at location 6465, code = Trace

Warning->Unknown table definition code at location 8038, code = Trace

any ideas? I tried the MP one to and get two errors also but at a different location.

Those errors don't mean anything. There were some 'extra' bytes that Chrysler had left behind in the cal area. I put them in to be complete (Iwasn't sure what they were for - and still don't know). But, MP Tuner doesn't like them. If you save the template, MP Tuner will take them out so the errors will be gone the next time you open it.

Your cal is based on the latest T-SBEC code, though maybe not for MPT2. I can't remember. The only difference between 2.x and 3.0 is the template being setup for MPT2.

[wowzer]

.... But, MP Tuner doesn't like them. If you save the template, MP Tuner will take them out so the errors will be gone the next time you open it.
...


an alternative would be to search for the lines that are mentioned and change the text ";mptrace" to ";trace". i use the code of ";mp" to begin all the commands i use in the program.

[bfarroo]

Those errors don't mean anything. There were some 'extra' bytes that Chrysler had left behind in the cal area. I put them in to be complete (Iwasn't sure what they were for - and still don't know). But, MP Tuner doesn't like them. If you save the template, MP Tuner will take them out so the errors will be gone the next time you open it.

Your cal is based on the latest T-SBEC code, though maybe not for MPT2. I can't remember. The only difference between 2.x and 3.0 is the template being setup for MPT2.

The Staging limiter is not working on the current cal or the one I modified. I'm assuming I need to start with one of the newer versions to have this option available? I tried setting it up to work with the Cruise on/off Switch as I don't have the cruise hooked up in the car and it isn't working. If there is something else I need to do let me know.

Thanks,

[ShelGame]

The Staging limiter is not working on the current cal or the one I modified. I'm assuming I need to start with one of the newer versions to have this option available? I tried setting it up to work with the Cruise on/off Switch as I don't have the cruise hooked up in the car and it isn't working. If there is something else I need to do let me know.

Thanks,

No, the staging limiter doesn't work in any of the SBEC cals. I haven't been able to figure out why. It's setup identically to the SMEC cals where it works fine.

[bfarroo]

OK, I'll keep going with what I have then. Thanks,

[ShelGame]

11/2/11 - Update now posted:
For use only with MP Tuner 2

- Added the calculated tables to the templates to show the total timing in 3D
- Added the PumpShot subgroup to transient fuel and moved the relevant tables over

[ShelGame]

Anyone running this care to help me figure out the staging limiter issue? I'd like to get it working again, but I don't have a (running) SBEC car. Need someone to test out changes.

[ShelGame]

11/2/11 - Update now posted:
For use only with MP Tuner 2

- Added the calculated tables to the templates to show the total timing in 3D
- Added the PumpShot subgroup to transient fuel and moved the relevant tables over

You'll need MP Tuner 2.0.1.6 downloaded to view the 3D tables...

[Force Fed Mopar]

Only SBEC car I have is the V6...

[ShelGame]

OK, fixed all the load and compile errors. It was a copy/paste error on my part, not an MP Tune problem.

[ShelGame]

Anyone running this care to help me figure out the staging limiter issue? I'd like to get it working again, but I don't have a (running) SBEC car. Need someone to test out changes.

Anyone?

[zin]

I'll give you a hand.

Mike

[ShelGame]

I'll give you a hand.

Mike

OK, well the last version I posted had several 'fixes' for the staging limiter. I'd like to know if it's currently working or not. I think I have a method to do spark-cut as-well-as or instead-of the stock fuel cut. But, I need to make sure the basic staging limiter is working before I try to add it in...

So, if you can build a cal using the latest T-SBEC data posted on #1, and setup the staging limiter; let me know how it works. If you need some help setting up the cal, let me know.

EDIT: Actually, do you want me to build you a cal and put it in the SBEC you have sitting here on my bench? If you want to do it that way, just send me a spec sheet for the cal and I'll get it done next week.

[Swart]

I can help too.
Let me know.

[zin]

That would be great. The specs will be the same, as it's going in the same car.

Mike

[bfarroo]

My car's put away for the winter but keep up the good work I'd like to use the staging limiter next year.

[AzShadow]

I will have to start playing with this again but my car has a terrible time starting SOMETIMES. For the first like 5 seconds or so it will kinda miss (sounds almost like a spark thing or its got a super nasty cam in it and its all loud and violent) and smoke a bunch them go away and idle fine. Once again it only does this sometimes and does it less if the car is already warmed up. Does this have anything to do with turbonator or is it maybe another issue all together?

[ShelGame]

I will have to start playing with this again but my car has a terrible time starting SOMETIMES. For the first like 5 seconds or so it will kinda miss (sounds almost like a spark thing or its got a super nasty cam in it and its all loud and violent) and smoke a bunch them go away and idle fine. Once again it only does this sometimes and does it less if the car is already warmed up. Does this have anything to do with turbonator or is it maybe another issue all together?

I never had that happen with other T-SBEC cals.

[Swart]

Rob,

Did you ever get any help on the staging limiter issue? I can help.

[Swart]

EDIT: I figured out the solution to the problem; you can't use a newer .ASM file with an older .TPL file.

Also, I get an error when trying to compile the T-SBEC_v3.asm file from 3-Nov-2011.

The error occurs after clicking 'Compile' in MPTune when the DOS window pops-up.

It reads:

?ASxxxx-Error-(u) in line 5732 of <path of ASM file goes here>\T-SBEC_v3.asm
(u) undefined symbol encountered during assembly

So, I opened T-SBEC_v3.asm and went to line 5732. Found this:

ldx #AESLOP_DeltaMAPEnrichmentPT ; load index with value

I searched the entire .ASM file for AESLOP_DeltaMAPEnrichmentPT and didn't find any other occurances.

Can I use an older .TPL file with the new .ASM? Or does the .TPL file need to be updated as well?

Any ideas?

[ShelGame]

EDIT: I figured out the solution to the problem; you can't use a newer .ASM file with an older .TPL file.

Also, I get an error when trying to compile the T-SBEC_v3.asm file from 3-Nov-2011.

The error occurs after clicking 'Compile' in MPTune when the DOS window pops-up.

It reads:

?ASxxxx-Error-(u) in line 5732 of <path of ASM file goes here>\T-SBEC_v3.asm
(u) undefined symbol encountered during assembly

So, I opened T-SBEC_v3.asm and went to line 5732. Found this:

ldx #AESLOP_DeltaMAPEnrichmentPT ; load index with value

I searched the entire .ASM file for AESLOP_DeltaMAPEnrichmentPT and didn't find any other occurances.

Can I use an older .TPL file with the new .ASM? Or does the .TPL file need to be updated as well?

Any ideas?

What template? I'll look at it later today...

[Swart]

The template I am using is modified from one you sent me.

The filename I initially started out with is "T-SBEC_B246_Swart.tpl".
The .ASM file that WORKS with this .TPL file is named "T-SBEC_v3.asm", and the date code is older than 8-15-2011.

[ShelGame]

EDIT: I figured out the solution to the problem; you can't use a newer .ASM file with an older .TPL file.

Also, I get an error when trying to compile the T-SBEC_v3.asm file from 3-Nov-2011.

The error occurs after clicking 'Compile' in MPTune when the DOS window pops-up.

It reads:

?ASxxxx-Error-(u) in line 5732 of <path of ASM file goes here>\T-SBEC_v3.asm
(u) undefined symbol encountered during assembly

So, I opened T-SBEC_v3.asm and went to line 5732. Found this:

ldx #AESLOP_DeltaMAPEnrichmentPT ; load index with value

I searched the entire .ASM file for AESLOP_DeltaMAPEnrichmentPT and didn't find any other occurances.

Can I use an older .TPL file with the new .ASM? Or does the .TPL file need to be updated as well?

Any ideas?

OK, so what happened is I changed the name of that table and added it to the PumpShot group. I'll update your template and re-send it to you later.

[Swart]

Thanks Rob

[ShelGame]

I found an error in the VNT Boost Control definitions that will cause problems when scaled for MAP. I'll post an update later tonight or over the weekend, but just be aware if you're trying to do VNT boost control with 2.5 or 3-bar MAP that it will scale wrong...

[bfarroo]

As the temperature is warming up I'm taking the 91 out of storage. LMK if you need any help with the staging limiter or any other issues.

[zin]

I found an error in the VNT Boost Control definitions that will cause problems when scaled for MAP....

While it might not be the right thread for it, I was wondering if you could explain the difference between how the computer handles boost control with the VNT and a "normal" turbo? Seems pretty simple on the face of it..., really not much different from standard, but I know it is, just not wrapping my brain quite around it yet... Thanks!

Mike

[ShelGame]

While it might not be the right thread for it, I was wondering if you could explain the difference between how the computer handles boost control with the VNT and a "normal" turbo? Seems pretty simple on the face of it..., really not much different from standard, but I know it is, just not wrapping my brain quite around it yet... Thanks!

Mike

Seems like the right place to me...

The VNT boost control is actually very different from the previous boost control schemes. But, some concepts were carried over to the T3 and 92 T1 boost control. Basically, it sets the vane position based on the boost error. It's much too complicated to explain in a single post, I think. If you really want to know how it all works, I'd suggest reading the patent on it. They put the complete flow chart in there, but its 3 pages long...

[ShelGame]

As the temperature is warming up I'm taking the 91 out of storage. LMK if you need any help with the staging limiter or any other issues.

You want to test the 2-step? I think I know what's wrong. I can send you a test .asm file to use with your template...

[bfarroo]

Sure just let me know what I need to do.

[bfarroo]

Any update, I'll have the car out this weekend. Put the insurance on today!

[ShelGame]

Spark Cut seems to be working in the SMEC tester that I have running. Ran it a little in my car today and think I need to play with the code some more. Made some adjustments just now and we'll see how it works. It will be easy to port this over to the SBEC when I get it where I want in the SMEC. But, I don't want to be debugging 2 different codebases right now. So, just hold on - it's coming :)

[olk93]

Well, its not really that important but for the sake of completeness ...

; $8006 controls the year.
; 99=1989
; 00=1990
; 01=1991
; 02=1992
; 03=1993


; 11=1991 MP
; 50=1990 (Shadow)
; 40=1989 (Daytona VNT)
; 79=1989 (on 3.0 Minivan)
; 70=1990 (on 3.0 Minivan)
; 21=1991 (on 3.0 Minivan)




; $8007 controls engine type.
; 10=2.2 turbo IV
; 40=2.2 VNT Manual


; 01=2.5 T1
; 11=2.5 turbo
; 21=2.5 T1 (Minivan) Auto Trans
; 41=2.5 T1 Manual Trans


; 41=2.2 T3 Manual Trans (Also?)


; 12=3.0 MFI
; 22=3.0 Auto


; 13=3.3 MFI
; 14=3.9 truck
; 15=5.2/5.9 TBI VIN Y
; 16=5.2/5.9 TBI VIN X


; 51=? 3.0 Minivan A604?


Glancing thru the .bin of a friends '91 Lebaron 3LV6 with A604 i found this:

File: 414_SBEC.bin Offset 0x0006 32768 bytes

Offs 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b
0000 46 72 A4 14 80 10 21 51 55 AA 00 0A

so for $8006 it's:

; 21=1991 (on 3.0 Lebaron)
; 21=1991 (on 3.0 Minivan) (Also?)

and for $8007 it's:

; 51= 3.0 Lebaron A604
; 51= 3.0 Minivan A604 (Also?)


Theres also another '93 3.0 Lebaron sbec on my desk here, gonna give you the .bin info after urpen the sucker up :D

[bfarroo]

Sounds good. May 4th is the first RSD / Test and Tune at the track here so I have some time.

[ShelGame]

Benji - think you can test the spark-cut/2-step/launch control? Can you test it regularly? Or only at the track? Can you datalog? I got spoiled with Force Fed Mopar testing the SMEC spark cut. The SBEC version is mostly the same, but there are some differences. I want to test it first and make sure it works and nothing was 'lost in translation'...

[ShelGame]

Anyone want to test the spark-cut code for the SBEC? I'd prefer to have someone that can log data, in case it doesn't work right. It will help with trouble shooting...

[bfarroo]

What kind of logging are you looking for? I've played with MP scan some in my 89 with the SMEC and have the Flashable SBEC and cable for the 91. The car is licensed and register / insured so I can take it on the road also. I haven't gotten my Zeitronics logging stuff hooked up yet though. LMK what your looking for.

[Force Fed Mopar]

You should be able to use the same hook up for MPScan on LM, SMEC or SBEC, since they all have the same diagnostic plug.

[ShelGame]

What kind of logging are you looking for? I've played with MP scan some in my 89 with the SMEC and have the Flashable SBEC and cable for the 91. The car is licensed and register / insured so I can take it on the road also. I haven't gotten my Zeitronics logging stuff hooked up yet though. LMK what your looking for.

Actually, it might not help so much. Force Fed was logging the 'new' values that I had added to make the new staging limiter/anti-lag work. But, in the SBEC, I had to put those values in the 'upper' RAM. So, it isn't loggable using MP Tune. MP TUne can only log the lower 256 bytes of RAM that all of the processors have. I might have to talk to Morris about adding the the ability to log the upper RAM for the SBEC's.

[wowzer]

Rob L - does the drb routine have the ability to query ram locations above 0xff? ie. 2 byte locations vs 1 byte?

[ShelGame]

Rob L - does the drb routine have the ability to query ram locations above 0xff? ie. 2 byte locations vs 1 byte?

Yes, but its an additional test mode inside the 0x12 logging routine...

[bfarroo]

LMK what you want me to test. I'll just need to know the best way to merge it with my current cal.

[ShelGame]

LMK what you want me to test. I'll just need to know the best way to merge it with my current cal.

What version is your current made with?

[bfarroo]

2.0.2.9 is what I'm currently using.

[ShelGame]

2.0.2.9 is what I'm currently using.

No, what version of T/SBEC. V3?

[wowzer]

Yes, but its an additional test mode inside the 0x12 logging routine...

maybe for testing it might be easier to switch some of the lower ram locations with the higher staging/antilag locations. then once its confirmed that it works properly to switch it back.

[ShelGame]

maybe for testing it might be easier to switch some of the lower ram locations with the higher staging/antilag locations. then once its confirmed that it works properly to switch it back.

Yeah, that's maybe the easiest way. It just means a bit of re-coding to get the Turbonator stuff into the lower RAM...

[bfarroo]

the cal is based off the one you did for me at sdac last year. Looks like T-SBEC_25_B246 was the original cal

[ShelGame]

the cal is based off the one you did for me at sdac last year. Looks like T-SBEC_25_B246 was the original cal

Oh, OK. Have you modified it since then? Do you work on the .tpl file and compile? Or just edit the binary? Go ahead and send me your cal files and I can add the new spark-cut and anti-lag tables in. rob@boostbutton.com

[bfarroo]

Any updates?

[ShelGame]

Any updates?

Just been busy with other things. I'll try to get your cal updated to the test verions this week. You going to SDAC?