Installed Stage 2 on my SRT-4

[ScottD]

I got a bonus at work so instead of banking it like I usually try to do I decided to splurge and bought Stage 2 w/out toys and the MP cat-back exhaust.

I installed the exhaust first about a week ago. Installation on that was pretty easy. It was a bit tough getting the main pipe off the cat/downpipe, but other than that it was easy. I definitely like the sound of the exhaust. I read the exhaust gives 5-7hp, I did feel an improvement, how much who knows.

Installing the Stage 2 was a little tougher. Injectors were easy, as was the map sensor. The PCM was a little tough to get out, but not too bad. The TIP sensor was a pain in the butt. The little push pins holding the bracket in were tough to get out. I had to put a towel against the fender and really pry them out. The real pain was the wastegate actuator. The heat shield is a pain to remove. After 6500 miles the 5 bolts in mine were tight. The one on the top back towards the firewall rounded a bit when I tried using a flare nut wrench on it. I had to go to Sears and get a 6 pt box end to get it off and even then it took a lot of grunting and cursing.

I drove it today and boost in 5th gear was holding around 15. I think I still have some tweaking to do. I didn't zip tie the vacuum lines yet, and I'm going to do that. I also put the WGA in with zero pre-load (I was doing this last night at midnight) and should have put pre-load at 4mm. I was reading that the PCM likes this set up better and with no pre-load the PCM likes to pull back timing. I think it runs pretty well but with a bit more tweaking it will run really well. Anything else I should check while I'm at it? The only mods on the car are K&N drop-in, Mopar STS, Mopar cat-back, Stage 2 w/out toys, and Prothane motor mount inserts.

Scott

[Keito]

I have the exact same setup except I went with a downpipe w/cutout
instead of MP exhaust.
Quiet like stock until I open it up, then it's better than a 3".
The TIP was a pain for me too.
Have you tried a boost leak test?
My turbo outlet was finger tight.
I installed my Stage 2 in October and only got to take it around the block before I put it away for the winter.
I'll have new track times soon.
Stock with open downpipe with drag radials I went 13.52@100 with bad boost leak.

[ScottD]

I'm going to check all the connections as well. I've read boost leaks are an issue on these cars. I figure it will be good to go around and make sure everything is tight.

[contraption22]

I'm looking forward to seeing what your car does at the track Scott. I have the exact same modifications, except with Stage1. My best trap speed is 103. I have a bonus comming to me too in the next few weeks and have been thinking of going with S2 as well, now that I hear it gives you enough fuel for a decent sized turbo up to about 16-17psi!

[ScottD]

My car ran 99.2mph in the 1/4 bone stock other than a K&N drop. On the street in that trim, from a slight roll in 1st the Quaife helped and traction wasn't an issue. The two times I've driven the car with Stage 2 traction in first has been a big issue. There is definitely more power there. I had a lot of trouble w/ 60fts the two runs I made at Cecil next last year, I'm thinking about getting slicks before I run again.

[contraption22]

Slicks are a great addition. No wheelhop at all for more aggressive launches. My best so far with the slicks is 13.6, but that was before i put the catback on and i was launching it pretty easy. Also the slicks i was running were a bit too small for the SRT. 23.5's. I'm getting 24.5's this season.

[ScottD]

I didn't get wheel hop but it felt like the front tires were on ice. I've only put two runs on the car and that was at the Cecil Fun Day. I'm definitely going to run it again after putting Stage 2 on, just a matter of finding time to get to the track, I have too many old broken TDs I'm trying to finish! I have to say the one thing I enjoy about the SRT-4 is when I work on it, I'm making it better, not just fixing it which in the past has been the majority of the work I do to TDs.

[CSX321]

I think that Stage 2 gives you a little more area under the curve. My best with just Stage 2 (HOM) and the Mopar cat-back last year was 13.3, and that was on my normal street tires, not slicks or drag radials.

This year I've added a stock throttle body bored to 55mm, 2.5" O2 housing, and modified Mopar cat-delete (so the whole system will be 2.5"). I also have some Rev-It-Up traction bars to install and try out sometime. I'm hoping to be able to trim another 2 tenths or so off with those changes and still on street tires. It'd be great to break into the 12s on streets, but I think that's wishful thinking with this setup.

[ScottD]

Mike what is your complaint with the 23.5 slicks? Do you feel they are too small for first gear? The charting I did seems like the 23.5s will be an ok diameter on the top end. I'm thinking about buying slicks but want to buy ones I can use on the Daytona C/S I'm building as well as that'll see some track time too.

I pre-loaded the wastegate actuator last night and zip tied the vacuum lines. The only thing I didn't zip tie was the purge solenoid quick disconnect, which was tough to get to and after inspection it didn't seem like it was going to come loose anytime soon. I was able to get 4mm pre-load, but there were only two threads left on the arm. I drove it this morning, I'm very pleased with it, but the track will tell the truth.

[contraption22]

Hey Dave, how loud is the car with the cat delete pipe? And why would you have to modify it to make the whole system 2.5"? Doesn't the cat-delete pipe also come with a midpipe?

[contraption22]

Mike what is your complaint with the 23.5 slicks? Do you feel they are too small for first gear? The charting I did seems like the 23.5s will be an ok diameter on the top end. I'm thinking about buying slicks but want to buy ones I can use on the Daytona C/S I'm building as well as that'll see some track time too.




The 23.5's are about 1.5" shorter than the oem tire. 1st gear goes away in the blink of an eye. I'd prefer a taller tire. I don't race this car enough for it to be worth it to have it's own set of slicks, but the Horizon was blowing away the 23.5's last time out last year, so I am going to have to do some modifications to fit the bigger slicks on.

[CSX321]

I don't have it installed yet. That's gonna have to wait until I get back from One Lap. I bought it used without the mid pipe. Which was just as well, because I have an extra resonator in my current mid pipe that I want to keep. I just have to get my exhaust guy to cut out the restriction and weld it all up.

[ScottD]

Pat Culkin and I were talking about the steep 1st gear on the SRT-4 and figured that was why you wanted to go to 24.5s. I'd like to buy a set of slicks I can use on both my Daytona and the SRT-4. My Daytona will have a ported head and manifolds and probably be running 16-18lbs of boost. I'd like to see 100-102mph in the 1/4 with it. I think 23.5s will be better for it. My problem is I can justify getting slicks for the few times I race if I will use them on more than one car, I don't want a set of slicks for each car. How are your 60' times with the SRT-4 on the 23.5s? What RPM are you leaving at? I've only put two runs on mine but it seemed like it was better leaving at a lower RPM than I'd leave with for my R/T. Also, I wonder what 15" wheel will fit both my Daytona and the SRT-4, I want to be sure it clears the caliper on the SRT-4.

[contraption22]

Pat Culkin and I were talking about the steep 1st gear on the SRT-4 and figured that was why you wanted to go to 24.5s. I'd like to buy a set of slicks I can use on both my Daytona and the SRT-4. My Daytona will have a ported head and manifolds and probably be running 16-18lbs of boost. I'd like to see 100-102mph in the 1/4 with it. I think 23.5s will be better for it. My problem is I can justify getting slicks for the few times I race if I will use them on more than one car, I don't want a set of slicks for each car. How are your 60' times with the SRT-4 on the 23.5s? What RPM are you leaving at? I've only put two runs on mine but it seemed like it was better leaving at a lower RPM than I'd leave with for my R/T. Also, I wonder what 15" wheel will fit both my Daytona and the SRT-4, I want to be sure it clears the caliper on the SRT-4.


As far as I can remember, the last time I raced the SRT-4 on slicks was at SDAC-14 at GLD. I was taking it easy on launches and had the air pressure fairly high at 15psi. cutting 2.0 60 ft times. That's when I ran the 13.6. Im failry certain I could do better than that with a more aggressive launch and lower pressures.

Actually I lied. The last time I raced it on slicks was at SDAC 15... and I wasn't quite on my game that day as you may remember....


If you are looking for a wheel that fits both, check out the Kosei K1, available from Tirerack.com. about $125 each, and only weighs 13lbs in a 15x7. Clears the SRT calipers without a problem.

[Pat]

If you are looking for a wheel that fits both, check out the Kosei K1, available from Tirerack.com. about $125 each, and only weighs 13lbs in a 15x7. Clears the SRT calipers without a problem.

Scott...these are the wheels I was telling you about that my 24.5" slicks are on. They fit both cars with no issues at all. You can take a look at them if you want to next time you're in the area.

[ScottD]

I did some reading on SRTforums (which between the cursing and illiteracy makes my head hurt) and also see that steel PT Cruiser wheels will fit. I wonder how much they weigh, I'm sure it is more than the Kosei K1s.

[Keito]

I did some reading on SRTforums (which between the cursing and illiteracy makes my head hurt) and also see that steel PT Cruiser wheels will fit. I wonder how much they weigh, I'm sure it is more than the Kosei K1s.


Scott,

Be careful which rims you get.
I bought PT steels with drag radials, and they rubbed the calipers, slightly.
The only thing it rubbed was the casting flash.
Maybe it could have been because my car has only 4000 miles, and
the brakes are still thick?
Or, I know you have to have a certian year rims.
I ended up getting 1/8" spacers for now.
The traction was the difference between night and day.

[CSX321]

Another wheel that is supposed to fit is Centerline Storms. I have 17" Storms on my SRT4, so one of these days I want to pick up a pair of 15" to match. The 17" Storms are 15 lbs. each, so I'm sure the 15" are much lighter.

[contraption22]

Scott,

Be careful which rims you get.
I bought PT steels with drag radials, and they rubbed the calipers, slightly.
The only thing it rubbed was the casting flash.
Maybe it could have been because my car has only 4000 miles, and
the brakes are still thick?
Or, I know you have to have a certian year rims.
I ended up getting 1/8" spacers for now.
The traction was the difference between night and day.

here is something similar that happened to me. I bolted on a set of standard Neon snowflake aluminum wheels onto my SRT and the fit with no problem. Then I changed the front brake pads and i had to use a spacer after that!

[ScottD]

I have 15 x 6.5 crab wheels laying around. I wonder if they would fit or if they'd need a spacer.

Mike - you still got those Neon R/T seats?

[Pat]

I have 15 x 6.5 crab wheels laying around. I wonder if they would fit or if they'd need a spacer.

Mike - you still got those Neon R/T seats?


What's the matter, you don't believe me? ;) 6.5 crabs did not fit my SRT.

[ScottD]

Duh, I forgot you told me that. I must've been drunk. Or looking at porn while talking on the phone. Or at work. Or maybe a combination of the three ...

[Keito]

here is something similar that happened to me. I bolted on a set of standard Neon snowflake aluminum wheels onto my SRT and the fit with no problem. Then I changed the front brake pads and i had to use a spacer after that!

OK then I'm not crazy.

[contraption22]

I have 15 x 6.5 crab wheels laying around. I wonder if they would fit or if they'd need a spacer.

Mike - you still got those Neon R/T seats?


Nah sorry I do not have the seats Scott. They were taking up space in my brother's attic and he sold them out from under me!

[ScottD]

Phooey. Those stock seats in my daily driver Neon SXT really bite. Everyone on SRT forums who has the side air bag seats won't sell them outright, they just want to trade for viper seats.

[contraption22]

I see more and more 2nd gens turning up in yards. They'll be some out there.

[contraption22]

Scott, or Dave, or Dan, or anybody. I might be picking up a used S2 w/toys for cheap from a local guy with a wrecked car.
Im almost sold on it, but I have some reservations about the drivability problems with S2, such as hard-starting and rough idle. Is this common?

[ScottD]

So far I've experienced no driveability problems. Definitely no hard starting or rough idle. I'd imagine these problems are maybe from people not following the directions. Mopar supplies a bunch of zip ties with the kit to zip tie all the vacuum lines. It clearly lays out which ones to zip tie. I did this save for one connection, which was tough to get to and didn't appear to need a zip tie anyway. Just to note, I don't have toys on my car.

[CSX321]

No, absolutely no drivability problems here, either. The "hard starting" issue isn't really an issue. I had it with Stage 0 and with Stage 2, but by "hard starting" I only mean that it cranks over 3 or 4 times instead of 1 or 2 before it fires up. That makes it pretty much like my other vehicles. It has always happened only in the summer for me, three years now, which makes me pretty sure it's the summer gas.

[Keito]

I think as long as you get the plugs Mopar recommends with the kit,
there should be no problem.
NGK 4306's gapped at .35 to .40.

[DodgeZ]

I cut 1.78 with 23.5's with no posi.

[CSX321]

I think as long as you get the plugs Mopar recommends with the kit,
there should be no problem.
NGK 4306's gapped at .35 to .40.
Yeah, that, too. I've mostly been using NGKs at 0.040, even before Stage 2, and that's always worked great for me.

[ScottD]

I must've missed in the instructions where it recommends to run the NGK 4306 plugs. I'll put those on my to do list as I also want to check the hose connections at the intercooler.

[contraption22]

Anybody know if the S2/toys instructions are online somewhere? I looked around but could not find it.

[CSX321]

Anybody know if the S2/toys instructions are online somewhere? I looked around but could not find it.
Grab them from here:
http://www.shelbycsx.com/csx321/srt/stage2install.pdf
http://www.shelbycsx.com/csx321/srt/stage2toys.pdf

I'll leave them there for a couple of days.

[ScottD]

Where is the recommendation that you use NGK plugs with the kit? I did a search on the instructions and didn't see it there. After seeing the post here about it I researched it on SRTForums and saw it recommended there too. I'm just wondering how I missed this.

[CSX321]

Where is the recommendation that you use NGK plugs with the kit? I did a search on the instructions and didn't see it there. After seeing the post here about it I researched it on SRTForums and saw it recommended there too. I'm just wondering how I missed this.
It's a recommendation of Ethan Bayer (DODGETWEAKER). I don't know if I've seen it in writing; I heard it straight from him at Nationals, though.

Also here (http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=951786&postcount=12) is a recommendation for NGKs from Stephan Zweidler (Dr. Who).

The plugs are not an absolute requirement, but they are one heat range colder and slightly easier to gap to 0.040. Running a smaller gap pretty much is a requirement, sometimes even on stock cars.

On my cars, CSX and SRT, I also like to cut the side electrode so that it extends only to the center of the center electrode. This gives you pretty much the same benefit as indexing, at the expense of slightly reduced plug life.

[ScottD]

Thanks for the info. Interesting stuff. What was most interesting was the people were having issues at low rpms and it was interesting how the plug wires were affected as well. After the install my car I thought my car felt a just a tad more laggy around 2500rpms-ish, but I wasn't having any stuttering or any sorts of driveability issues. I'm going to install the plugs this weekend and I'll be curious to see if that makes any difference with how my car drives. Pat Culkin (aka the Roy Hobbs of turbo Dodges) will also be up to my house this weekend so maybe I'll have him wave his magic wand over the car while he's there.

Mike - on the WGA install, do yourself a favor and if you don't have a six-point box end wrench, get one for the heat shield removal. I didn't have one and on that top bolt on the shield (back by the firewall) I used a flare nut wrench on it and it slipped a couple times and easily rounded that bolt head. Luckily I didn't round it too bad, but I did have to run to Sears to get a 6 point box end wrench to be able to get enough torque on it to get it off. At 6500 miles, the bolts on my car were TIGHT, and I've read that is the case more often than not.

[contraption22]

Thanks for the tip Scott. I've had the heat sheild off several times now after several failed attempts to use aftermarket wastegate actuators, so it should come off pretty easy. In fact, two of the bolts are so hard to get to, i never bothered to put them back. As long as the sheild doesn't rattle, i don;t mind.

I got my S2 w toys yesterday. Everything seems to be there except a couple of the brass pins that go into the ecm, they broke upon removal. The intercooler sprayer pump was destroyed in the accident, but I don't think i would have bothered installing that anyway. What I have to do before anything is go and get the PCM reflashed.

[WRXEATER]

You won't regret it. What is everyones normal boost level? Also, does it change with the weather like mine does? I hit 19 the other day and let off!

[CSX321]

Yeah, it definitely changes with the weather. The highest I ever saw was 19 or 20. You might also want to check for boost leaks, especially at the turbo outlet.

I only see 10 psi now...my boost gauge is kaput. It reads 10 in. of vacuum with the car off, and the highest it goes is 10 psi. Only the second problem I've had with my SRT4, though. And it does have 40K miles on it.

[DodgeZ]

it is because you are running 50psi which broke your gauge. ;) Well that's what the service manager told me on my second or third gauge.

here is a funny picture I ran across...

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2794/motivator5gj.jpg

[t3rse]

gotta love autometer!

[CSX321]

The St. Louis SRT club has a shirt with a picture similar to that that says, "Will this void my warranty?" :)

[contraption22]

Anybody have a set of S2 w/toys instructions they can scan in for me? I know they used to be online somewhere, but not anymore.

[CSX321]

Yeah, I posted them the other day...


Grab them from here:
http://www.shelbycsx.com/csx321/srt/stage2install.pdf
http://www.shelbycsx.com/csx321/srt/stage2toys.pdf

I'll leave them there for a couple of days.

[contraption22]

Thanks Dave.. i completely missed that. I gotta lay off the pipe for a while.

[ScottD]

Mike, you need to give that Wonderboy picture to Pat C. I think he is the Roy Hobbs of turbo Dodges ....

[contraption22]

I really wish Mopar offered the toys harness as a service part. This guy was a total butcher. There are several pin connectors missing that go into the PCM, and instead of unplugging everything that goes into the dashboard control unit, he just cut it. Looks like i will be splicing for a while! lol

[Keito]

I really wish Mopar offered the toys harness as a service part. This guy was a total butcher. There are several pin connectors missing that go into the PCM, and instead of unplugging everything that goes into the dashboard control unit, he just cut it. Looks like i will be splicing for a while! lol

So instead of unplugging the connectors from the toys he cut the wires?
I know you have to splice some wires to get power.

I hope you got it cheap.

[CSX321]

I really wish Mopar offered the toys harness as a service part. This guy was a total butcher. There are several pin connectors missing that go into the PCM, and instead of unplugging everything that goes into the dashboard control unit, he just cut it. Looks like i will be splicing for a while! lol
The PCM pins are available, at least.

[contraption22]

The PCM pins are available, at least.

Yes thankfully. With any luck I will have them next week. A friend of mine is going to program in my vin for me this weekend. At the same time I will throw in the injectors, sensors and WGA.

[contraption22]

So instead of unplugging the connectors from the toys he cut the wires?
I know you have to splice some wires to get power.

I hope you got it cheap.

Oh yes, I got it cheap.

[TurboGLH]

When it's all done and installed mike please give us a comparison between stage 1 and 2. I keep my eyes open for used stage 2's but I'm pretty sure that I can make 300whp on stage 1 so I'm undecided as to whether it's worth the trouble (and money) to get one.

[contraption22]

When it's all done and installed mike please give us a comparison between stage 1 and 2. I keep my eyes open for used stage 2's but I'm pretty sure that I can make 300whp on stage 1 so I'm undecided as to whether it's worth the trouble (and money) to get one.


I'm not expecting a huge difference. From the research I have been doing, S2 cars are trapping within a couple mph of where i have been trapping with S1, maybe a little faster than that in race gas mode. But perhaps I will be pleasantly suprised.

[Keito]

When it's all done and installed mike please give us a comparison between stage 1 and 2. I keep my eyes open for used stage 2's but I'm pretty sure that I can make 300whp on stage 1 so I'm undecided as to whether it's worth the trouble (and money) to get one.

I looked for a while and bought a used no toys kit for $550.
I'm on stock exhaust, but have a downpipe w/ a cutout.
I can't wait to run it at the track w/ the open downpipe.
I have heard stage 2 gets better gas milage than stock, but I haven't
witnessed this yet.

[TurboGLH]

I'm not expecting a huge difference. From the research I have been doing, S2 cars are trapping within a couple mph of where i have been trapping with S1, maybe a little faster than that in race gas mode. But perhaps I will be pleasantly suprised.



I looked for a while and bought a used no toys kit for $550.
I'm on stock exhaust, but have a downpipe w/ a cutout.
I can't wait to run it at the track w/ the open downpipe.
I have heard stage 2 gets better gas milage than stock, but I haven't
witnessed this yet.

Feedback is always good, even if your not expecting much. I'm just trying to figure if the approx $500-700 on stage2 would be better spent else where. I like the larger injectors and the 3bar map/tip but If I can go faster on stage1 with a little tuning I won't bother.

[CSX321]

I think you can max out the stock turbo with S1 or S2. S2 is the safe, easy way to do it. S1 takes a little more time and tuning, and you probably run more risk of damaging something.

I went from S0 to S2 and it made a huge difference. I went 13.3 on street tires with S2 and the Mopar cat-back and no other power modifications. I was real happy with that. For a while. Now of course, I'd like to hit 12s. :)

I saw no difference in mileage between S0 and S2.

[contraption22]

My milage in suburban driving is pretty poor with S1 compared to stock, because the turbo spools so easily in lower gears. Im wondering if setting the DAB to 0 would give better milage results. Something to play with i suppose.

[CSX321]

I'm not sure if DAB 0 would help or not. For some reason I get better mileage if my wife drives it a lot than when I do. :)

[Keito]

Mike,

This guy wrote up a good "how to" for stage 2 w/toys.
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204082


Keith

[contraption22]

Thanks for that post. That is an extremely good writeup.

Well I attempted to install the S2 tonight. A friend of mine that works at a Jeep dealer borrowed the DRBIII to enter my info into the PCM. Unfortunately he either got the wrong info on my car, or made a mistake while attempting it, and the PCM is locked.

I guess I will end up sending it to Flight Systems to have it done.

[Keito]

Thanks for that post. That is an extremely good writeup.

Well I attempted to install the S2 tonight. A friend of mine that works at a Jeep dealer borrowed the DRBIII to enter my info into the PCM. Unfortunately he either got the wrong info on my car, or made a mistake while attempting it, and the PCM is locked.

I guess I will end up sending it to Flight Systems to have it done.

Stephanie is super cool.
I sent her my Computer and got it back in a week.

[contraption22]

Thanks Kieth. Do you have contact info for Stephanie?

[Keito]

From The Forum.

Hello,
My name is Stephanie and I am from Flight Systems, the company that supplies you with your turbo kits. If you have bought a used stage kit and need your vin number reflashed into it you can send your pcm to me and I can reflash it for you. I can NOT reflash stock pcm's. As you should know, if you do not do this and try to install the pcm in your vehicle without changing the vin, your vehicle will not start. The charge for this will be $30 plus s&h plus the COD charge. I can either ship it back to you overnight air which is expensive or ground which will only cost $4-5 more on top of the $30 plus the $7 charge for COD. The cost for everything will be around $43 which will come COD (collect on delivery). Everything will be sent back using the carrier UPS, no exceptions. When the driver drops your pcm off you must give him a check or money order made out to Flight Systems, for the exact amount. Once I ship your pcm out, I can send you a pm with your tracking number and total COD amount. The address you will need to send it to is:

Flight Systems
1040 East Maple Road
Troy, MI 48083
Attn: Stephanie/Reprogram

Please make sure to put inside the box your vin number, return address, a telephone number I can reach you at in case of any problems, and how you would like it sent back to you; ground or overnight. Please make sure the pcm is packaged properly, any damage that happens on delivery to me is not my respondsibility. Let me know when you are sending it out to me by pm so I know when it should arrive. I will ship it back out to you 1-2 days after I receive the kit. If you have any questions, you can pm me as well. Have a great day!!

Stephanie
Flight Systems
Parts Department

[contraption22]

Thanks Kieth. I sent my S2 module out yesterday finally.

[Keito]

Mike,

I ran the car last month for the first time with stage 2 w/o, wasn't impressed.
Went faster last year stock.
Different conditions though.
Last year I went 13.51 @ 100.
Last month, 13.57 @103.
Warmer this year, last year I had a few gallons of 100 octane.
Definatly making more power.
It was suggested I was spinning in 2nd gear.
I'll try again when it cools off.

[contraption22]

Your MPH shows a small improvement in power. I'm not expecting miracles out of mine. Only going in because I got it cheap.

[Keito]

Read an interesting thread on SRTforums yesterday.
Stock, computer pulls timing around 17 psi.
Stage 2 pulls timing around 19 psi, estimated .
With my open downpipe my car was running 20+.
I could feel the car wasn't really pulling hard, and I'm sure
not having any 100 octane didn't help.
I think I'll try again as soon as this heat spell breaks.

[contraption22]

Well I got it all in... except for the intercooler sprayer which was damaged by the previous owner of the kit... I'm told it doesn't do much besides make puddles anyway.

Without the high octane mode switched on... the difference over S1 is barely perceptable. But I threw in a bottle of Lucas Octane Booster into a 1/2 tank of gas.. hit the red button and now I'm somewhat impressed!