Flashable SMEC/SBEC Group Buy 1st round!

[ShelGame]

OK, so I placed the Flashable Module board order today. And, I put together the final pricing.

For the Flashable SMEC and SBEC, the price will be $100 + $50 core charge. If you send in your core, obviously you won't need to pay the core charge. This is $50 cheaper than I originally projected.

For the Serial/USB Cables, the price will be $50. These turned out to be slightly more complicated than I originally thought due to needing some extra protection circuitry due to the SBEC bootstrap process. I had hoped to make them cheaper, but I really can't get it any lower. The cable will be complete and plug-n-play into the SCI connector. It will have ~5' of cabling, which should be enough to get from the SCI connector to the passenger seat on all cars.

I'm not planning to do any DIY modules or kits right now. Maybe at a later date.

2 things to know about the cables:
1) The USB cables will not work for flashing a cal with D-Cal. For some reason, D-Cal does not recognize them as a legit serial port. So, to flash a cal to the SMEC/SBEC from D-Cal, you need a computer with a RS232 serial port, and you need a serial cable. There is also a program called 'SMECFlash' that's out there. It might work with the USB cables, I have not tested it. Also, 90TurboVan has written his own editor/flasher that should work with the USB cables, but again, I have not tested it.

2) Datalogging with the serial cables is limited. This is because the PC serial ports cannot be programmed to run at the SMEC/SBEC baud rates. So, for datalogging (from LogWorks, when Risen gets his plug-in finished), you'll need a USB cable (the chip used in the USB cable can be programmed to work at any integer baud rate). Though, it is possible to modify the baud rate of a cal to run at 9600 baud. Which will work with a PC for datalogging. I'm not sure if Risen plans to include provisions for this in his LogWorks plugin. The baud mod + the high-speed logger switch on T-SMEC will also allow you to datalog with SMECLogger (posted here).

I know this sucks. But, right now we don't have enough development of PC software for our ECU's. We really need a new editor that can support the newer hardware that's available...

The cables will come with a 2-wire pigtail attached for adding a pushbutton for flashing the SBEC (I'll generate some flashing instructions later). And, I will supply a 60-way pin/wire (salvage) for adding the bootstrap pin to the SMEC 60-way connector for flashing the SMEC (again, detailled flashing instructions will follow). The USB cable will have the pigtail as well, eventhough there's currently no software that will allow flashing thru USB.

Surprise! It turns out that the latest module design is actually reprogrammable on-the-fly. That's right, it's possible to write to the EEPROM while the engine is running - just like the Ostrich. The catch? Again, there's no software to support it. I can (and plan to) write a routine for Turbonator SMEC/SBEC that will allow updating of the calibration data while running. But, there will still need to be a PC-side program to monitor the binary for changes and send the updates to the SMEC/SBEC. Anyone any good at PC programming?

Since it's been over 3 months since I posted the original poll, I think it's best to start a new group-buy list. I'm reserving spots for MCSVT and GLHSNSLHT2 because they seemed the most interested - and they had cores to trade. If they want out, I'll open up those spots. This first group buy will be limited to 10 computers total. Only because that's the most I could hope to build in the next couple of months.

I'm not ready to take money at this point. Mostly because I'm at the mercy of the board house. They might be back in 3 weeks, or it could be 2 months. When the boards ship to me, I'll post up and you can send in cores/payment/etc. But, I do want to get the list set so that I can start getting organized. Once I do get the boards, I should be able to ship the 1st computer within a month. If you're #10 on the list, add probably 2 months to that wait. Once these first 10 are out, I'll look at my free time (baby daughter comes in Sept) and organize the 2nd round of 10.

Also, I'm not going to be taking any more orders for socketing/cal work so that I can concentrate on getting these out. And, in the interest of saving time, I don't plan to build any custom cals for these computers. If you're buying a flashable computer, it's because you want to do your own cal, right?

If you want on the list, post your real name, quantity and type of computer (SMEC or SBEC), whether you will supply a core or not, and quantity and type of cables you want.

[wowzer]

Rob - put me on the list. i want one (1):

-SMEC and USB cable
-will keep my core

Morris Terveen

also, sent u a pm regarding software stuff.

[mcsvt]

Rob I'm still in.

Gary Mazzone
1 SBEC
Have a Core (plus the 3 SMEC I promised you)
1 serial cable

[vprtech]

Rob, I'm down for at least one board, two boards, if this can be used with the SBEC I that uses the non-latched memory. I would also like two usb to serial cables, if I'm allowed two that is. :D

Chris Jensen

1 board for a SBEC II
1 board for a SBEC I
2 USB to serial adaptors

If I can install it myself, that is my preference, otherwise I will supply core.

[ShelGame]

Rob, I'm down for at least one board, two boards, if this can be used with the SBEC I that uses the non-latched memory. I would also like two usb to serial cables, if I'm allowed two that is. :D

Chris Jensen

1 board for a SBEC II
1 board for a SBEC I
2 USB to serial adaptors

If I can install it myself, that is my preference, otherwise I will supply core.


The SBEC I and II both use the latched memory chip (87C257). They should both be able to use the SBEC module I'm building. I know the SBECII bootstraps the same way as a SBECI. But, I haven't tested the module on a SBECII - only SBECI.

[quantum]

The emutility that comes with the Ostrich does a great job of monitoring the .bin file for changes. I'm not sure what would be involved in getting it to work with your flashable units, but it may be worth a look. PM me if you can't get the program from the Moates site.

[ShelGame]

The emutility that comes with the Ostrich does a great job of monitoring the .bin file for changes. I'm not sure what would be involved in getting it to work with your flashable units, but it may be worth a look. PM me if you can't get the program from the Moates site.

The program we need will have to communicate with a routine in the binary itself. The routine will have to make sure that only the data segment is written to. I don't think we want to try and modify a code segment while it's running. Unpredictable things can happen that way.

There will have to be a specific protocol (command bytes, address bytes, etc.) to do that. I doubt Emutility can do that, but I'll have a look.

[janus]

1 board for a SBEC II



The SBEC I and II both use the latched memory chip (87C257). They should both be able to use the SBEC module I'm building. I know the SBECII bootstraps the same way as a SBECI. But, I haven't tested the module on a SBECII - only SBECI.

once there's some experience about the SBEC II compatability available would please you let us know :) sounds promising so far!

is there some dead line for placing orders on this?

[ShelGame]

The only deadline is to be #10. Though, I suppose if we don't get 10 for the 1st group, then there really is no deadline at all. Looks like I'm only up to 5 right now:

GLHSNSLHT2 x 1
MCSVT x 1
wowzer x 1
vprtech x 2

[ShelGame]

Bump. I expect the boards in a couple of weeks...

Did I mention these will be flashable on-the-fly like the Ostrich?

[moparman76_69]

only $100 I thought it was more than that for some reason. Add me to the list for 1

[zin]

Damn, always catching these things late in the game!

I'll take at least one SMEC, I'm pretty sure I've got a core to send.

Mike Flynn

PS Will any SMEC do? I've got a TIII I'd like to play with, but no core for it...

[ShelGame]

GLHSNSLHT2 x 1
MCSVT x 1
wowzer x 1
vprtech x 2

moparman76_69 x 1
zin x 1

zin: It needs to be a turbo SMEC/SBEC. But if you want a flashable TIII SBEC, then I'd need one of those. They're different from the 'regular' turbo SBEC's...

[janus]

But, there will still need to be a PC-side program to monitor the binary for changes and send the updates to the SMEC/SBEC. Anyone any good at PC programming?

hey rob, i might be interested in taking a look at the pc-side program needed. just pm me with some details or requirements.
also, iirc the turbonator is only running on SMEC and SBEC-I right? any chance something will be developed to interface with the flashable SBEC-II's?

[ShelGame]

hey rob, i might be interested in taking a look at the pc-side program needed. just pm me with some details or requirements.
also, iirc the turbonator is only running on SMEC and SBEC-I right? any chance something will be developed to interface with the flashable SBEC-II's?

If I could my hands on a datasheet for the flashable Toshiba chip they used in the SBEC-II's, I could probably figure it out. But, the flashable modules I built should also work in the SBEC-II the same way they work in the early SBEC's. I'd just need to test one...

[vprtech]

If I could my hands on a datasheet for the flashable Toshiba chip they used in the SBEC-II's, I could probably figure it out. But, the flashable modules I built should also work in the SBEC-II the same way they work in the early SBEC's. I'd just need to test one...

Rob, I've taken SBEC2's that had a Toshiba chip, and used a ST 28F256 chip instead with no issues. The SBEC2's I've seen have either the Toshiba chip or the ST 28F256 chip, either one is flashable. Some of the later SBEC2's had a 28F512 flashable chip in them, I think they called these SBECIIB's , we are talking the non four cylinder type .

[ShelGame]

The 28F256 chip - is that a 28-pin chip or a 32-pin?

[1BADVAN]

so if D-cal doesn't work to flash it by usb what does? Or how do you flash one of thes SMECs with a usb cable?

[vprtech]

The 28F256 chip - is that a 28-pin chip or a 32-pin?

I believe 32 pin, I think I have the data sheet somewhere, let me look.

[ShelGame]

so if D-cal doesn't work to flash it by usb what does? Or how do you flash one of thes SMECs with a usb cable?

There's a program called SMECflash that might work, but it's a lot more cumbersome to use than D-Cal.

I use a serial cable for flashing, for now.

There's a new editor in-progress that (hopefully) will be able to flash using a USB port...

[janus]

The 28F256 chip - is that a 28-pin chip or a 32-pin?
data sheet says 32pin.


hey rob, i might be interested in taking a look at the pc-side program needed. just pm me with some details or requirements.
any reply to that? :)

edit: btw the flash chip in the sbec-II seems to be a TC97208 (-AP or -P) as by quantum.

[ShelGame]

data sheet says 32pin.


any reply to that? :)

edit: btw the flash chip in the sbec-II seems to be a TC97208 (-AP or -P) as by quantum.

Yeah, sure. What I had in mind was a prgram that would monitor a binary (specified by the user) and update the cal data as required. I still need to write the code for the SMEC side, so I don't know the requirements yet.

[ShelGame]

I got a shipping confirmation for the flash module boards. I'll have them next week. The serial/usb boards are going to be a little behind them. I was hoping to get them ordered in time to get on the same batch, but I guess I missed it. The serial/usb cables will be a couple weeks behind.

[ShelGame]

Boards came in today! Still waiting on the interface boards, though...

[vprtech]

boards came in today! Still waiting on the interface boards, though...

pics, pics !!!

[ShelGame]

Here you go...

[vprtech]

Very nice :)

[bris09]

Brian Sloat
1-SMEC
1 each of the cables (with hopes of using the USB later on)
Will supply a core

[ShelGame]

GLHSNSLHT2 x 1
MCSVT x 1
wowzer x 1
vprtech x 2
moparman76_69 x 1
zin x 1
bris09 x 1

That's a total of 8. Only 2 spots left for the first round...

[ShelGame]

Well, SBEC module tested OK tonight. I'm sure the SMEC version is OK, it was a proven circuit before. But, I'll try to get one built in the next week just to confirm. I need it for my minivan anyway.

Still no word on the serial/usb boards...

[GLHNSLHT2]

9 smecs are on their way to you Rob. Should be there next week.

[ShelGame]

Awesome, thanks! :thumb:

[rich tideswell]

Rob,

Are you interested in purchising cores? I have a computer from a 1988 Plymouth Voyager that had a 3.0L V6 and 3 speed automatic transmission.

[ShelGame]

Not yet, I think I'm going to be set for a while. And, although a 3.0 computer will run the turbo code, I prefer turbo computers....

[ShelGame]

Finally got the shipment notification for the serial/USB boards today. Ack! I got to get to work on the connector mold...

[omnigoestohell]

sure, put me down for one... SMEC, serial cable and no core..

[TopDollar69]

Rob, put me down for a flashable SMEC, and a USB cable. I will supply my own core. One question, is the cable both serial and USB, or are you making two seperate cables?

Thanks,

Ben Huebner

[ShelGame]

2 separate cales. No way to make them in the same cable. Well, no way to make it fool-proof anyway...

Serial Boards are in, BTW. I'll post pictures later. I'm putting together my component order now.

[mcsvt]

Good news :thumb: Thanks Rob.

[TopDollar69]

Then put me down for a serial and USB, it never hurts to have options.

[ShelGame]

Current List:

GLHSNSLHT2 x 1
MCSVT x 1
wowzer x 1
vprtech x 2
moparman76_69 x 1
zin x 1
bris09 x 1
omnigoestohell x 1
TopDollar69 x 1


So, that's 10. I can't take anymore orders right now, it's going to take me a while to get these 10 done.

[janus]

any updates on the req's of the pc program you wanted? :)

[ShelGame]

any updates on the req's of the pc program you wanted? :)

Haven't had time to hash out the protocol yet. But, I will...

[moparman76_69]

Anything new with this?

[GLHNSLHT2]

+1, bump.

[ShelGame]

I'm still waiting to get paid on a cal order (from August!) so that I can afford to order components.

I know I could just take deposits to raise that cash, but I really don't want to take anyone's money until I have parts in my hands.

[wowzer]

man - i'm desperate. i'ld be willing to ante up just to get the ball rolling. my kids don't need xmas presents anyhow.

[TopDollar69]

I'm willing to pay upfront also.

[zin]

I'm willing to pay upfront also.

+1:thumb: I think we can trust you.:amen:

Mike

[1966 dart wagon]

So what is it going to cost to get a serial and usb cable(still 100 bucks???) I have a core, but that computer has been socketed is that going to be able to be used for this??

[ShelGame]

I built up one for my minivan, and with a socket, the module sits too tall to fit under the power module with cutting it. So, I can use a socketed SMEC, but it doesn't really help much...

Thanks guys, it's not about trusting me. But, I'm slow (in case you haven't noticed) and with 3 little kids in the house, my time seems to be evaporating. I'm sure it will get better once the baby sleeps all night. Anyway, I don't want to take your money and then be sitting on it for months. I really don't want to take any moeny until I know I'm less than a month away from shipping stuff...

[SpiritRT]

I'd like to be on the next 10 list. Please keep me informed.

[moparman76_69]

I'm still waiting to get paid on a cal order (from August!) so that I can afford to order components.

I know I could just take deposits to raise that cash, but I really don't want to take anyone's money until I have parts in my hands.

OK so whomever owes Rob money PAY UP!

[ShelGame]

OK so whomever owes Rob money PAY UP!

Actually, it's a shop. He sent me 3 computers and orders for 3 more chips. I haven't heard from him since Mid September. And, I don't have his customers names, so I can't even return the computers to the original owners. Last he said, he as trying to get his customers to pay for the computers. I don't know what happened to him...

[ShelGame]

I'd like to be on the next 10 list. Please keep me informed.

Actually, I think after this 10, I'll be able to just take orders. It should generate enough cash to buy a larger batch of components so I won't need to do them in batches.

[badandy]

Bump for updates (count me in once this gets going...if I don't megasquirt 1st)

[ShelGame]

Cash is coming for parts. Should be able to order components next week and get this thing back off the ground...

[rich tideswell]

I still have that 88 mini van v6/ auto computer. if you don't want it, its going to hit the curb soon.

[ShelGame]

Yeah, I'll take it. It can be used as a turbo computer once it's socketed...

[ShelGame]

I'm placing the component order tonight...

[rich tideswell]

Yeah, I'll take it. It can be used as a turbo computer once it's socketed...


its all yours

[wowzer]

so the price for just the flash module is 100?

[ShelGame]

No, just the module is $50; $100 for it installed plus another $50 for a core. I didn't really plan to sell only the modules, though...

[wowzer]

gotcha - thanks

[ShelGame]

Crap. I don't think my flash module works. I previously had a problem flashing my SBEC module. I would get every other 32-byte block duplicated. I couldn't figure out what would do that other than a bad build. I didn't have any trouble flashing the SMEC version - which is identical except for the address latch. Well, today I (finally) got the flashable computer installed in my van. Flashed it and verified it, and it doesn't work. The ASD just clicks on and off erratically. It wrote the cal and verified just fine. So, I don't really know what the problems is yet. But, I think I have a problem with the way I pulled in the E clock line. It may be treated differently in bootstrap vs. normal run modes. I've got to figure it out and get new boards built. Big time bummer.

This is one of the reasons I didn't want to take anyones money yet...

[zin]

No Problem... We'll (or at least I) will hang in there, this is too cool a part to not be patient!

Mike

[mcsvt]

Rob you've got all winter to get the kinks worked out ;) I'm still in and willing to wait.

[ShelGame]

I'm actually wondering if the problem is with the power board I used with that computer. From everything I've read, there's no difference between reading/writing the module in bootstrap mode vs. run mode. I can read and write a cal to the module (on the bench and in vehicle, serial and USB, with both D-Cal and MP Tuner) no problem. So, it should work. I'm swapping the power board out and I'll try it again - probably Friday. Hang in there guys...

[janus]

+1 on hanging in there, not a prob. good luck figuring it all out :) let us know how it goes

[bris09]

Not going anywhere. I have another SMEC to use in the meantime.

[ShelGame]

Well, it wasn't the power board. It doesn't work. I just don't understand why...

[GLHNSLHT2]

does it work on the smecs and you're just not getting it to work on the SBECS?

[ShelGame]

Neither one works...

[TopDollar69]

Could it be an improperly loaded component on the board? Perhaps the company that made the boards messed them up?

[ShelGame]

I don't think so. I checked them pretty thoroughly when I couldn't get them to work. I think I have a problem with the control bus, actually. What I don't understand is, why I can read/write in bootstrap mode no problem. But, not while in normal run mode. I just don't get that.

Actually, the SBEC module didn't even write properly. It repeated every other 32 byte block. Which seems like a problem on one of the address lines, not the control bus.

[GLHNSLHT2]

ok so they work fine if you flash them with the car off and the 12v to the right pin and your having problems flashing them with the car running? Do I understand that right?

[ShelGame]

I can flash and verify the SMEC board. The SBEC module didn't even flash correctly. But, yes, it won't start the car. ASD cycles on/off. I'm sure it's a control bus issue, I just haven't figured it out yet...

[ShelGame]

OK, I think I know what the problem is. During startup, the SMEC saves some data to the EEPROM. Unfortunately, the EEPROM memory addresses are also memory addresses on the flash chip. Noramlly, that wouldn't be a problem as you'd just have 2 copies of the data. But, the 28C256 goes into programming mode when you try to write to it. And, it takes a polling operation to end the write cycle. So, it looks like the module is staying in program mode. I'm going to make a 'special' build of T-SMEC and remove the EEPROM write stuff and see if it works.

The final solution will probably be to find a static RAM chip instead of the flash chip. Should no hassle to write to those. But, they are more expensive...

[ShelGame]

OK, I found the chip to use. I have 5 of them. But, they didn't come with the back-up battery module (it was hard to tell from the on-line catalog if it did or not). I now have 5 batteries coming as well. I think this will work - it's just a matter of how long the battery backup will last. If the battery loses power, then the binary is gone and can't be stored when the power is off. I think it should last a good long while...

EDIT: Yeah, according to the datasheet, the memory should be maintained for a minimum of 10 years with the power off. I think that will work for most of us...

[janus]

But, the 28C256 goes into programming mode when you try to write to it. And, it takes a polling operation to end the write cycle. So, it looks like the module is staying in program mode. I'm going to make a 'special' build of T-SMEC and remove the EEPROM write stuff and see if it works.

The final solution will probably be to find a static RAM chip instead of the flash chip. Should no hassle to write to those. But, they are more expensive...
I tried to understand the issue about the EEPROM going in programming mode - what do you mean by polling operation to end the write cycle? What is polled, something like a WriteInProgress bit in the Status Register or something?
Also, did i understand correctly that removing the EEPROM write stuff from the T-SMEC would solve this issue, so that the data on startup would be written to Flash only instead of EEPROM as well (because of the duplicate address range). Just curious anyways :) Sorry for those lengthy questions in a GroupBuy thread..

But maybe you could enlighten us on how the Flash substitution by SRAM is going to help with this issue. :) Anyways, the battery-packed SRAM should be fine for a fair amount of years as you already stated. Hope you get those issues worked out. Good luck!

[ShelGame]

Well, RAM takes about the same amount of time to write as it does to read. So, when the startup code tried to write to the internal EEPROM (on the CPU), it will also write to the 'big' memory chip. If the big memory chip writes like RAM (short write time), this will be no problem as we'll just have 2 copies of the data. But, in the case of the EEPROM, the write cycle takes ~10 times as long as a read. So, the CPU is trying to move to the next instruction in the EEPROM, and it's still idle. So, I think, we get a COP error or someting and the code resets. That's why the ASD cycles on/off. I think the Chrysler 'mystery chip' must handle the address conflict all on it's own (among other things).

Theoretically, if I disabled the EEPROM completely, it would work with EEPROM, but we wouldn't be able to do updates to the data while running :(

[ShelGame]

OK, so the new chip seems like it will work - with a tweak to the bootloader code. I built a SMEC last night with the chip and it flashed OK with D-Cal except for 2 memory locations. They wouldn't write correctly at all. I think it's a timing issue in the bootloader.

This means it won't flash correctly with D-Cal (or the older SMECFlash). But, I think (hope) wowzer can make some changes to MP Tuner to support this SRAM chip correctly.

[janus]

But, in the case of the EEPROM, the write cycle takes ~10 times as long as a read. So, the CPU is trying to move to the next instruction in the EEPROM, and it's still idle.

Thanks for clarifying!

Sounds like you're making some progress, good thing you are posting some up-to-date news here. :nod:

So, you substituted the external EEPROM with the SRAM chip you were mentioning, right? The two memory locations are on the SRAM i suppose? Other than that issue, did you manage to get the SMEC running?

[ShelGame]

No, it doesn't write correctly with the current bootloader. I have another one to try, but it will only work with the setup I have in my van. I might get to it today (it was way too cold last night).

[janus]

It doesn't write correctly in these two locations or are we talking about the whole memory range?
Good luck if you get to try it today :thumb:

[ShelGame]

No, just a couple of random memory locations. But, it's always the same 2 (in my case).

[bakes]

Rob what is the chance that the current chip has a bad Sector in the memory section of it? tried a second chip?

[ShelGame]

No, someone else had tried this type of chip previously (not this exact chip, but same read/write methods) and had similar results. He always had bad writes to the same 5 memory locations. It got fixed when he wrote his own bootloader. I think it has to do with the write cycle timing. The current bootloader is expecting a write cycle about 30x longer than the SRAM write cycle. Theoretically, the SRAM has no upper limit on the write cycle, but I still think this is the source of the error.

I actually am going to try to hack in the 'updated' bootloader into D-Cal. I'll post the modified D-Cal if it works.

[ShelGame]

OK, the SRAM module worked on the bench flash. I'll test it in my van later this afternoon...

[mcsvt]

Thanks again for all the hard work Rob, can't wait!

[ShelGame]

Well, crap. It didn't work. Same thing as the previous module. There must be something different about the control bus when in bootstrap vs. run modes. I suspect it has to do with the proprietary ChryCo address decoder chip. It must be the E clock line, as that's the only line that's different from Jason's older module. I'll have to draw up new boards. That sucks...

[janus]

Bummer you have to go through that Rob. What you tried seemed to be a good approach to me. Good luck and we all hope you can work it out somehow :thumb:

[ShelGame]

It might be where I'm getting one of the control bus signals from. I'm going to try and re-route it directly to the processor and see if that works.

[ShelGame]

OK, I (finally) have my flash modules sorted out. I need to check out my SBEC boards and see if I can make the changes with a jumper wire (I think I can). But, since this has been so long in the making, I want to see who all is still on board for this original group buy.

Some changes - these will NOT be flashable on the fly. I am still going to work on that, but it will (at least) be a Gen 2 type deal. The tests that I've done so far, the program keeps getting corrupted by the ECU. I think it has to do with the custom decoder chip. The fix maybe a major redesign. So, for now, I'm going with the key-off flash setup only.

Here's the original group buy list. Please let me know if you are still in or if you are out. Obviously, no worries if you're out. It's been a long time since I started this deal. Also, if anyone drops out, I'm not going to swap anyone in. Development has been much more expensive than I hoped. So, after this initial group buy, I'll need to re-evaluate the pricing, and then I'll be offering these up for sale on BoostButton.com.

Current Group Buy List:

GLHSNSLHT2 x 1
MCSVT x 1
wowzer x 1
vprtech x 2
moparman76_69 x 1
zin x 1
bris09 x 1
omnigoestohell x 1
TopDollar69 x 1

[TopDollar69]

I'm still in, taking everything apart to remove the chip is a major pain amd this is worth it just to bypass that.

[ShelGame]

Honestly, it is really nice. Especailly with MP Tuner and a USB cable. You can flash and verify a SMEC in less than 10 seconds.

I have an 'old school' flashable SMEC in my van that I got in trade for some cal work. And. I have one of xrattiracer's modules in the SMEC in my race car. I don't think I could live without them anymore...

[mcsvt]

I'll stay in, can't back out now you got it working.

[janus]

not sure if you said this would work for an SBECII as well - if so, add me to the list as a comitted buyer :rockon:

[moparman76_69]

Is it still $100. Depends on what kind of time frame we're talking about, if its immediately I won't have the cash, if it's still gonna be a few weeks then I'm still in.

[ShelGame]

Is it still $100. Depends on what kind of time frame we're talking about, if its immediately I won't have the cash, if it's still gonna be a few weeks then I'm still in.

It's more like a month+ before I'll have the modules built up. And, that's assuming I can salvage the boards I have. No rush for payment or anything, if you're on the original list and still want one, we can work it out payment/delivery.

I just need to know how many of each type I need to be building...

[ShelGame]

not sure if you said this would work for an SBECII as well - if so, add me to the list as a comitted buyer :rockon:

I'm not adding anyone to the list at this time. The original list is already set, sorry.

As soon as the original group buy is completed, I'll be offering these up for sale on my website on an as-ordered basis. Turn around will be about the same as for a socketed SMEC/SBEC.

Will it work with the SBEC-II? Yes. It should work exactly the same in an SBECII as in an SBEC. However, the SBECII used 2 different chips - an 87C257 just like the SBEC; or, some of them got a Hitachi chip that is flashable in-circuit already. Though, the flashing algorithm and voltages are not the same as my module. Currently, the only way to flash them is with Chrysler hardware. I figured out how to do it, but I'm not close to building a flash cable for them. Plus, it will need some PC software developed to support the algorithm.

I intentionally made my module 100% pin-compatible with the chip used in the SBEC-II. So, it would be a drop-in replacement if you wanted to use this module instead of the (obsolete) stock flash chip. Then you could flash it from D-Cal or MP Tuner (or the older SMECFlash, if you choose).

[wowzer]

i'm still in. you have a pm.

[1BADVAN]

It's more like a month+ before I'll have the modules built up. And, that's assuming I can salvage the boards I have. No rush for payment or anything, if you're on the original list and still want one, we can work it out payment/delivery.

I just need to know how many of each type I need to be building...

Do you need more cores? I have one maybe 2 SMECs and maybe a SBEC I can send you for a future credit towards one of these or if you just want to buy them

[bris09]

I'm still in.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I'm still in for 2 long interface cables (so I can permanently mount them in the car) and 1 flashable SMEC

[ShelGame]

Do you need more cores? I have one maybe 2 SMECs and maybe a SBEC I can send you for a future credit towards one of these or if you just want to buy them

Absolutely. I'd probably be willing to give you $120 credit toward a flashabel setup for those computers. Assuming they're turbo, of course...

[mcsvt]

I'll stay in, can't back out now you got it working.

Just to clarify, still want a SBEC. Not sure how many turbo cores I have at this point. Started checking a few and found some TBI smecs... I'll recheck my stash and let you know what I have. I'll at least have a core.

Which cable will be best for MPTuner and logging? USB?

Thanks again Rob :thumb:

[GLHNSLHT2]

I'm assuming MPtuner will flash the older and stock cals as well? If so I'll take mine with USB since those are easier to find than Serial connections.

[ShelGame]

Just to clarify, still want a SBEC. Not sure how many turbo cores I have at this point. Started checking a few and found some TBI smecs... I'll recheck my stash and let you know what I have. I'll at least have a core.

Which cable will be best for MPTuner and logging? USB?

Thanks again Rob :thumb:

I use the USB cable from FTDI. Though, it does have a problem with current draw when the SMEC/SBEC is powered down and the cable is plugged into a PC. The ECU will draw current thru the cable making it get very hot, and eventually brown-out. I'm going to try and add some protection to my interface boards to prevent that.

[ShelGame]

Well, I finally was able to flash an SBEC this afternoon after fixing the latch problem. Just need to make one more design decision with them and I'll be sending boards off for manufacturing...

[moparman76_69]

I'd have to check but I'm sure I have at least 2 turbo SMECs I don't need and would be willing to send you those as payment for mine.

On a side note, how do you tell if it's turbo or TBI if you weren't smart enough to label them?

[ShelGame]

On the SMEC's, the connector color is different. Turbo SMEC's are gray, TBI and V6 are black...

[risen]

I use the USB cable from FTDI. Though, it does have a problem with current draw when the SMEC/SBEC is powered down and the cable is plugged into a PC. The ECU will draw current thru the cable making it get very hot, and eventually brown-out. I'm going to try and add some protection to my interface boards to prevent that.

In the meantime do you think a 1k on the tx and rx lines will be enough to stop that?

[ShelGame]

In the meantime do you think a 1k on the tx and rx lines will be enough to stop that?

Would that mess with the signals at all? Slow them down?

[risen]

Would that mess with the signals at all? Slow them down?

Wouldn't there need to be some reasonable amount of capacitence ( is that a word?) to cause a time issue?

The main reason I asked was because I thought the schematic for the sbec flash adapter you had showed a 1k in the rx line. No?

[The Pope]

up dates?

[ShelGame]

SMEC Boards are on order, should be here in the next 7-10 days. I need to do one more confirmation test on my prototype SBEC board then I can send that board out to be made. And, I still need to do a little design work on the SBEC interface/flash boards.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Rob is it too late to switch from Serial to USB on the interface cables? I was able to get my USB port working on my laptop.

[ShelGame]

Well, for the SMEC's, I'm not going to build a SUB interface anymore. I can't beat the price of the FTDI cable ($17 at digikey) and it's all you really need.

I can still make a RS232 cable, if there's demand.

For the SBEC's, I need to finish the board layout for the USB setup. The SBEC's need some additional cicuitry to be able to re-flash thru the cable...

[ShelGame]

Just tested the flashable SBEC in my father-in-laws Spirit R/T. It worked! So, I'll finalize that board layout this week and get them off to manufacture...

[ShelGame]

Got the shipping notification for the SMEC boards today, they'll be here on Saturday.

Here's my list of SMEC buyers. Let me know if you want off the list, please. I totally understand if you do, it's been a long time getting these going. I'll try to send PM's also...

GLHNSLHT2
wowzer
moparman76_69
zin
bris09
omnigoestohell
TopDollar69
1badvan

[1BADVAN]

I'm still in!
Quick question you mentioned something once about a way to burn out a ftdi converter chip, What exactly causes that? and is there a way to test if it happened? I had mine kill one usb port on my laptop and i never got it to work with a SMEC only LMs, so i am thinking i might need a new one

[ShelGame]

I never burned one out, but it can get hot if you leave it plugged into the laptop and car when the car is off and the laptop is on. It mde mine flaky, but it never did any permanent damage.

[zin]

Still "in"...:thumb:

Mike

[ShelGame]

Oh, and SBEC boards will be ordered today. Along with the SCI interface boards for the SBEC.

Actually, I'm only going to make 1 cable for now. It will work with either the SMEC or SBEC and will include ~ 1ft of wire for the SBEC boot switch (the wire/switch will not be used with a SMEC). It will plug directly into the SCI port.

However, the SMEC does not need the interface board. For the SMEC, you can wire in an FTDI cable directly. I'll post the instructions here and on my website. Of course, without the board, there's the possibility of getting the wires in the wrong spots. But, the instructions should help prevent that.

I haven't decided if I want to carry the off-the-shelf FTDI cable yet or not. I would have to sell it for ~$20 and it's available for $17 from digikey. I can't compete with that price.

If there's really enough demand, I can make the serial adapters, too. But, they're more complicated to assemble and I might have to charge more for them.

Pricing will still be $100 for the assembled and installed flash module. But, I increased my SBEC core charge to $75 because they're getting hard to find (and expensive to get). SMEC core charge is still $50.

The USB cables should be less than the $50 I originally thought they would be. I simplified the design greatly. They'll be around $30 I think.

[ShelGame]

SMEC boards showed up today. I'm ready to build the first batch of flashable SMECs. I'm going to try and get one done tonight and test it out.

[turboaddict]

is it still posible to get in this? i have my sbec that i can send as core !!

[ShelGame]

I'm not taking on anyone else for this 'initial' run. But, as soon as I finish up the initial run, these will be going up on BoostButton.com as a regular item. The price may go up slightly after I see how long it really takes me to assemble and test these out.

[risen]

I never burned one out, but it can get hot if you leave it plugged into the laptop and car when the car is off and the laptop is on. It mde mine flaky, but it never did any permanent damage.

Just FYI - some 1k resistors on the tx/rx line seem like they'll be OK. They're on the arduino and I tested with a couple adapters and they don't seem to adversely affect the comms.

[ShelGame]

Built up the first SMEC module last night. I'm going to work these in around my other cal work. Flashable SMEC's should be starting to ship in a few weeks...

[wowzer]

thx rob - no hurry on mine so you can move me toward the bottom of the list.

[SwinGenX]

Great project! I am relatively new to the board and Turbo Dodge for that matter. I just happened upon this researching engine management stuff. It looks like I am too late to get on board to support the first run, but will be anxiously awaiting the opportunity to purchase a flashable SBEC. In the meantime, anyone have a socketed SBEC for sale. :D

[The Pope]

sweet, so both SBEC and SMEC will be going by next summer? Looks like 88-91 wire harness's are going to become popular.

[ShelGame]

Well before next summer. I should be done with the initial group buy before Christmas. After that, I'll put them up on BoostButton.com for sale as a regular item.

[ShelGame]

SBEC boards are ordered!

[ShelGame]

SBEC flash boards and interface boards are on the way. It's all coming together, finally. Thanks to everyone for your patience...

[ShelGame]

Boards are in!

[mcsvt]

Sweet! :thumb:

[ShelGame]

OK, all of the components are now on hand. I have both SMEC and SBEC boards built and ready to test, I'll build up an SCI cable this weekend and test it with the SBEC (see if I can flash my father-in-laws Spirit R/T in-car).

[janus]

you mention an R/T... does that mean SBEC II?? :)

[ShelGame]

No, my R/T is a '91. But the flash modules and cables will also work on the SBEC-II...

[janus]

interesting. so i'm guessing the only issue would be that the bin(s) haven't been disassembled yet?

[ShelGame]

Pretty much. But that's been started...

[janus]

Hear, hear! :eyebrows:

[ShelGame]

OK, SBEC flash module #1 is built and tested. Works great. Ran my father-in-laws Spirit R/T on it the other day. I'm building up SMEC module #1 to test tonight, though I don't see there being a problem since it's already a proven design. And, I also need to test the SCI cable on the Spirit R/T and my van to make sure it communicates correctly.

Soon, I'll post up the group-buy list again and make a special webpage for checkout/purchase. Though, a few have already paid either by cash or cores.

The group buy orders will be filled first in order of payment received. After the group buy orders are filled, I'll add these items to the website open to anyone interested in buying them.

[1BADVAN]

So when do you think the all of the SMEC board group buys will be shipped?

Meaning how long until the last guy gets his?

[bakes]

Rob do you see any problem converting a 94 v6 Sbec2 to flashable ?

[ShelGame]

Rob do you see any problem converting a 94 v6 Sbec2 to flashable ?

Should be no problem, but I really need to install one of these in an SBECII and test it to be sure...

[janus]

you can add my name to the GP list once SBEC2 compatability is confirmed :) thanks for your effort

[ShelGame]

So when do you think the all of the SMEC board group buys will be shipped?

Meaning how long until the last guy gets his?

Luckily, right now the cal orders are slowing down (I was literally swamped with orders in Aug/Sept). Each computer takes about 2 hours to assemble, including the module itself, so I think I can get them all done in 6-8 weeks. Though, I've never done this many computers in this short of time before. And, I think I ahve just enough cores to build them all. If I eff one up pulling the chip, I'll have to get a replacement and that could slow things down a bit. But, I still think it should be about 2 months.

I started on the flash computer order page last night, I'll try to get it up tonight and send the link to the group buy guys...

[ShelGame]

Group Buy checkout page is up, and all members of the original group buy have been sent a PM.

Thanks!

[ShelGame]

OK, the group buy computers are now starting to ship. So, I've opened up the website to anyone wanting to order a flashable SMEC or SBEC. Lead time right now is about 6 weeks.

http://www.boostbutton.com/Computer-Products.html

[TopDollar69]

Sweet!

[ShelGame]

Sweet!

Yep, your computer is done and tested. Need to finish up the batch of cables I started on last week, and build your cal. I hope to get it out next week.

5 of the 10 original group buy are fully paid and in process.

[mcsvt]

I just need to send you my core still, it will be in the mail by this weekend, thanks for all the hard work!

[ShelGame]

I just need to send you my core still, it will be in the mail by this weekend, thanks for all the hard work!

No problem at all. Just happy I finally got them working, and sorry it took so long...

[janus]

any SBEC-II tests yet? :eyebrows: sorry for the bugging ;)
you guys have a happy holiday season!

[ShelGame]

Someone is sending me an SBEC-II to test with the module...

Though, I'm 99.9% sure it will work fine...