My new rear setup

[Reeves]

Getting ready to road test...

[t3rse]

neato

[1984rampage]

info please!!!

[bgbmxer]

is that a tube setup? can i get a piture of how you connected the two hubs together im getting ready to do the same thing on my stock one?

[raccoon]

nice work 10 points out of 10!

[Pat]

How much weight did you save? Let us know how it drives...I don't know if you whip the car around corners or not, but I'm curious if the tail end comes around on you bit more. Without having any twist of the rear axle, it's like having a massive sway bar in it.

[bgbmxer]

How much weight did you save? Let us know how it drives...I don't know if you whip the car around corners or not, but I'm curious if the tail end comes around on you bit more. Without having any twist of the rear axle, it's like having a massive sway bar in it.

have you ever lifted the rear swingarm of one of these its a tank lol?

i thought about this but decided to go with just modifying the stock one since in a few years i will be going to a newer platform with more parts availability anyways neon or srt

[contraption22]

Very cool, James!

[mcsvt]

Looks better than when it was hanging on the wall. Looking forward to the road test review.

[Pat]

have you ever lifted the rear swingarm of one of these its a tank lol?

i thought about this but decided to go with just modifying the stock one since in a few years i will be going to a newer platform with more parts availability anyways neon or srt

I know a stock one weighs a ton...I want to know how much less than a ton his weights. ;)

[bgbmxer]

I know a stock one weighs a ton...I want to know how much less than a ton his weights. ;)

i wanna know how ridged it is. its gonna 3 wheel like a mofo most likely or maybe not if the front is as stiff as the back is gonna be

[R/T]

James;

I really liked your old rear, but I know it was used a lot, and was getting kinda loose. :nod:

Your new rear will make you the hit of the SDAC party, I'm sure everyone will enjoy it a lot!!! :amen:

[Reeves]

info please!!!

Chromemoly rollbar tubing left over. Wilwood 1.4lb aluminum calipers with SS pistons. Stock 87-88 Daytona rear discs. Biondo line locks.


is that a tube setup? can i get a piture of how you connected the two hubs together im getting ready to do the same thing on my stock one?

It's off the lift right now, but I'll try to get some more pics later. Come to SDAC and see it in person!


nice work 10 points out of 10!

Thanks!


How much weight did you save? Let us know how it drives...I don't know if you whip the car around corners or not, but I'm curious if the tail end comes around on you bit more. Without having any twist of the rear axle, it's like having a massive sway bar in it.

Stock drum brakes from a GLH weigh 44 lbs.
My old rear axle was 84 lbs. complete. But this was with lightened drums.
New rear axle is 63 lbs. complete.
I would say it's about 25 lbs. lighter than a bone stock GLH rear.

Well, I wanted to drive it tonight, as I have an appointment to get the front and rear aligned tomorrow, but the roads are still wet from all the rain we got today. So I went on to work on other things. Not good :mad: I am so tired of messing with alky on the car. I need some alky for myself. Can't wait till tomorrow.

[bakes]

Getting ready to road test...

is that a flame thrower i see there cool:thumb:

[Reeves]

Yessir...

[BadAssPerformance]

Lookin good Reeves :thumb:

[csxtra]

I know a stock one weighs a ton...I want to know how much less than a ton his weights. ;)

So James, how much would it weigh if it was made out of aluminum instead of chrome moly?

[Pat]

That's great! Good job.

[omni_840]

Wow! That looks great :nod:

[Reeves]

So James, how much would it weigh if it was made out of aluminum instead of chrome moly?

Less

:thumb:

[Keito]

Didn't Stephane make his out of aluminum?

[Pat]

Reeve's drives his on the streed from what I understand. I'd be less inclined to use aluminum for a street driven car, even with the weight savings.

[badandy]

Reeve's drives his on the streed from what I understand. I'd be less inclined to use aluminum for a street driven car, even with the weight savings.

Yup he sure does...about as often as sightings of the Lochness Monster, Bigfoot, Little green Men from Mars...and me making 12 second passes :lol:

[bgbmxer]

i cant make it and my car is up on blocks and were getting ready to finish the rear swingarm since the front is almost done but the car will not be done for awhile.

[Gaboon]

Yoou crazy kids putting all this time and effort into your K cars...Pffft.;)

















Nice work James.

[cordes]

Very nice Reeves. I have been wanting to do this on my Omni. Of course the time line for that is probably 10 years off.

[Reeves]

Reeve's drives his on the streed from what I understand. I'd be less inclined to use aluminum for a street driven car, even with the weight savings.

Yup! I just got back from putting about 60 miles on it. To/From the alignment shop! Got it all dialed in. Took 2.5hrs.


Yoou crazy kids putting all this time and effort into your K cars...Pffft.;)
Nice work James.

Don't you mean "L" !!! LFTMFW!

Now off to work for another 100 miles round trip. Dyno tomorrow!

[R/T]

Now off to work for another 100 miles round trip.

Ya know E Water runs tonight.... ;)

Stop and be Friendly!!! :lol:

[Reeves]

Ya know E Water runs tonight.... ;)

Stop and be Friendly!!! :lol:

I would, but I need to make sure the new setup is ready. Dyno tomorrow.

At work, so I got about 80 miles or so on the car so far. Rear axle feels real nice, but I haven't been able to take any hard fast turns yet. Every time I make a right turn I run out of gas! LOL.

[ohiorob]

Looking forward to seeing your new rear ;)

[turbovanman²]

Mad skilzz my man, :hail::hail::hail::hail:


Looking forward to seeing your new rear ;)

Did you really just type that?????? :faint::bolt::wow1:

[Reeves]

Anybody got an idea to turn DOWN the rear brakes? I mean, I already mounted 2 linelocks instead of changing the car to front/back brake lines vs. diagonal. I really don't want to mount 2 adjustable proportioning valves in the back as well.

It has the stock GLH proportioning valve with the new rear disc setup as shown, and Minivan calipers and 911 brake pads up front. The rear still locks up to easy though and I'm worried to try it out with the skinnies on the back at the dragstrip.

Would a 4 wheel disc car's stock proportioning valve work to fix this you think? Is there a stock proportioning valve cross reference somewhere that says like how much the rear brakes were biased and what vehicles had which P valve?

[bgbmxer]

Anybody got an idea to turn DOWN the rear brakes? I mean, I already mounted 2 linelocks instead of changing the car to front/back brake lines vs. diagonal. I really don't want to mount 2 adjustable proportioning valves in the back as well.

It has the stock GLH proportioning valve with the new rear disc setup as shown, and Minivan calipers and 911 brake pads up front. The rear still locks up to easy though and I'm worried to try it out with the skinnies on the back at the dragstrip.

Would a 4 wheel disc car's stock proportioning valve work to fix this you think? Is there a stock proportioning valve cross reference somewhere that says like how much the rear brakes were biased and what vehicles had which P valve?


i will be using the prop valve out of the same car my brakes came off of but it will still probably be to much.

buy an adjustable prop valve and problem solved

[cordes]

I would think the prop valve out of a spirit RT or the like would work well to solve that problem. Do you think that lightening it up so much is also playing a factor?

[Reeves]

i will be using the prop valve out of the same car my brakes came off of but it will still probably be to much.

buy an adjustable prop valve and problem solved

Not exactly. I'd have to buy 2.


I would think the prop valve out of a spirit RT or the like would work well to solve that problem. Do you think that lightening it up so much is also playing a factor?

Yes and Yes.

[Juggy]

D150 master cylinder is even bigger then the shelby "4" ones.....try one of those, they gotta push more fluid to the front brakes then the "4" mc

diggin the tubular rear axle tho :cool:

[Reeves]

D150 master cylinder is even bigger then the shelby "4" ones.....try one of those, they gotta push more fluid to the front brakes then the "4" mc

diggin the tubular rear axle tho :cool:

I'm actually using a small master cylinder without power brake booster all from a 78 Omni. Has great pedal feel!

[bgbmxer]

true but if ur gonna autocross and do drag racing it might be wise to go to the adjustable prop valve setup. i will eventually but as for now im just gonna try to get it on the road again

[Juggy]

I'm actually using a small master cylinder without power brake booster all from a 78 Omni. Has great pedal feel!

sounds cool...but can u still swap out the MC for the shelby "4" one or the D150????

i went on ebay, heres some specs

Fits:
1989 DODGE DAYTONA SHELBY with 2.2L 135cid L4 MFI Turbo (A) engine.

Application Notes:
Professional Grade Bore Size=24mm Number of Ports=2 Primary Outlet Size=3/4x24Shelby

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DODGE-DAYTONA-SHELBY-Master-Cylinder-RAYBESTOS-MC39476_W0QQitemZ190314855403QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ 20090616?IMSfp=TL090616212006r7503


Fits:
1982 DODGE D150 PICKUP with 5.9L 360cid V8 (T) engine.

Application Notes:
Professional Grade Bore Size=1 1/8" Number of Ports=2 Primary Outlet Size=9/16x20 Secondary Outlet Size=1/2x20Aluminum Master Cylinder

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/82-DODGE-D150-PICKUP-Master-Cylinder-RAYBESTOS-MC39178_W0QQitemZ190314855367QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ 20090616?IMSfp=TL090616214008r9233

D150 needs reflare and some diff fittings to work....its like 29mm (guessing) as opposed to 24

[johnl]

Beautiful work. You gotta love light suspension parts. Light wheels too?

["Top Fuel" Bender]

I had to switch my omni around to front rear bias then put a proportioning valve in
I tried using the daytona 4-wheel disc proportioning valve and the rears still locked up , little scary @ 130mph

[ShelGame]

sounds cool...but can u still swap out the MC for the shelby "4" one or the D150????

i went on ebay, heres some specs

Fits:
1989 DODGE DAYTONA SHELBY with 2.2L 135cid L4 MFI Turbo (A) engine.

Application Notes:
Professional Grade Bore Size=24mm Number of Ports=2 Primary Outlet Size=3/4x24Shelby

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DODGE-DAYTONA-SHELBY-Master-Cylinder-RAYBESTOS-MC39476_W0QQitemZ190314855403QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ 20090616?IMSfp=TL090616212006r7503


Fits:
1982 DODGE D150 PICKUP with 5.9L 360cid V8 (T) engine.

Application Notes:
Professional Grade Bore Size=1 1/8" Number of Ports=2 Primary Outlet Size=9/16x20 Secondary Outlet Size=1/2x20Aluminum Master Cylinder

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/82-DODGE-D150-PICKUP-Master-Cylinder-RAYBESTOS-MC39178_W0QQitemZ190314855367QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ 20090616?IMSfp=TL090616214008r9233

D150 needs reflare and some diff fittings to work....its like 29mm (guessing) as opposed to 24


You don't wanna do that. Without the booster, the pedal would just be way too hard...

[Juggy]

You don't wanna do that. Without the booster, the pedal would just be way too hard...

ok so by the sounds of it hes going to have to go with the dually adjustbale prop valves eh....that sucks...guess its pretty much the same reason why we have to run dual lock lines

[Reeves]

I think the prop valve from a car with 4 wheel disc would def help.

[Dominic]

Is there a stock proportioning valve cross reference somewhere that says like how much the rear brakes were biased and what vehicles had which P valve?

I remember seeing such a reference in the braking section of my 1989 FSM.

[bgbmxer]

I remember seeing such a reference in the braking section of my 1989 FSM.

i remeber reading a post about this awhile ago and the different biases have different colord sticker things on them

[Reeves]

I remember seeing such a reference in the braking section of my 1989 FSM.


i remeber reading a post about this awhile ago and the different biases have different colord sticker things on them

This is what I need!!!!

[bgbmxer]

This is what I need!!!!

look it up lol. it might be on the other other site but if you find it i think it should be posted i the faq section

[Reeves]

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/perf/brakes.html

God love him!

[Reeves]

"The lower the slope value, the more the pressure to the rear brakes is reduced."

Tag Color Function Material Split Point Slope
(none) Differential Brass - 1
Grey Differential-Proportioning Brass 500psi 0.27
Tan Differential-Proportioning Brass 600psi 0.43
White Differential-Proportioning Brass 750psi 0.43
Black Differential-Proportioning Brass 800psi 0.59

(none) E
Grey L, J, P
Tan K, P
White G, H
Black G, K




If the above it true, then I already have the best prop valve I can get. I'll have to see if I can find a color on it somewhere.

[bgbmxer]

"The lower the slope value, the more the pressure to the rear brakes is reduced."

Tag Color Function Material Split Point Slope
(none) Differential Brass - 1
Grey Differential-Proportioning Brass 500psi 0.27
Tan Differential-Proportioning Brass 600psi 0.43
White Differential-Proportioning Brass 750psi 0.43
Black Differential-Proportioning Brass 800psi 0.59

(none) E
Grey L, J, P
Tan K, P
White G, H
Black G, K




If the above it true, then I already have the best prop valve I can get. I'll have to see if I can find a color on it somewhere.

im not sure i comprehend what you are saying? slope value that is?

[Reeves]

Go to the website above.

[bgbmxer]

Go to the website above.

so one is the lowest or is grey?

[Reeves]

Well, it's a slope. So a 1 is straight up, meaning full pressure to front and rears. The lower the number, the lower the slope. That's my take on it. Meaning that if L-bodies including GLH's came with a grey prop valve, then I've already got the best I can get.

[turbovanman²]

Well, it's a slope. So a 1 is straight up, meaning full pressure to front and rears. The lower the number, the lower the slope. That's my take on it. Meaning that if L-bodies including GLH's came with a grey prop valve, then I've already got the best I can get.

I put rear discs on an Omni and it wouldn't actuate the rears much at all, put an R/T prop valve in, now the rears work. If your now locking up the rears, then you will have to run an adjustable setup.

[bgbmxer]

Well, it's a slope. So a 1 is straight up, meaning full pressure to front and rears. The lower the number, the lower the slope. That's my take on it. Meaning that if L-bodies including GLH's came with a grey prop valve, then I've already got the best I can get.

im gonna run the prop valve that came with the daytona brakes and see what happens. i believe i have the white tag and i also have a l body but its a charger

[Reeves]

I put rear discs on an Omni and it wouldn't actuate the rears much at all, put an R/T prop valve in, now the rears work. If your now locking up the rears, then you will have to run an adjustable setup.

According to the website, you would have less braking in the rear with a R/T prop valve.

[Aries_Turbo]

i had this problem with the k car. i originally hooked it up so it was split from the master cyl front/rear rather than diagonal but the master bottomed/locked up when the rear brakes hit their limits first and the fronts did little, so i put a "H" pipe between the front and the rear. i have a wilwood valve only on the rear. lines.

all i needed was a few adapters, lines and some tees to install it.

Brian

[turbovanman²]

According to the website, you would have less braking in the rear with a R/T prop valve.

Then the website is wrong then, :( The drum prop valve decreases the fluid to the rear as wheel cylinders don't need as much volume, hence why the rear discs didn't work using a drum prop valve. Putting an R/T prop valve on lets more fluid reach the rear, and now the rear discs work. :D

[Reeves]

Then the website is wrong then, :( The drum prop valve decreases the fluid to the rear as wheel cylinders don't need as much volume, hence why the rear discs didn't work using a drum prop valve. Putting an R/T prop valve on lets more fluid reach the rear, and now the rear discs work. :D

I hate to say this...but you are right! LOL. I wasn't thinking about it right. And the website is right as well.

I have the drum prop valve, and have too much rear brake with the discs.....which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since I never had that problem when it had drums on it. ??

[turbovanman²]

I hate to say this...but you are right! LOL. I wasn't thinking about it right. And the website is right as well.

I have the drum prop valve, and have too much rear brake with the discs.....which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since I never had that problem when it had drums on it. ??

Thats my new quote, :evil:

You went lighter in the rear so there isn't as much weight, and those sexy calipers probably work alot better than our stock stuff so now your overpowering them.

I guess your going to have to break down and buy two adjustable prop valves, :o

[Reeves]

Then the website is wrong then, :( The drum prop valve decreases the fluid to the rear as wheel cylinders don't need as much volume, hence why the rear discs didn't work using a drum prop valve. Putting an R/T prop valve on lets more fluid reach the rear, and now the rear discs work. :D


Thats my new quote, :evil:

You went lighter in the rear so there isn't as much weight, and those sexy calipers probably work alot better than our stock stuff so now your overpowering them.

I guess your going to have to break down and buy two adjustable prop valves, :o


As soon as I get someone to split a set of 95 pph injectors with me, I am going to order the 2 adj prop valves (already in my summit cart). The only other issue I need to work out is how to mount them. If you look at my pictures, I mounted the line locks out towards the caliper. So on the driver side I can just add the prop valve to the line lock, but on the passenger side, the filler tube to my fuel tank is in the way :o

hmmm....another thought. Looking at the pictures in the 1st post, maybe I'll have room to mount them directly to the caliper?

[turbovanman²]

As soon as I get someone to split a set of 95 pph injectors with me, I am going to order the 2 adj prop valves (already in my summit cart). The only other issue I need to work out is how to mount them. If you look at my pictures, I mounted the line locks out towards the caliper. So on the driver side I can just add the prop valve to the line lock, but on the passenger side, the filler tube to my fuel tank is in the way :o

hmmm....another thought. Looking at the pictures in the 1st post, maybe I'll have room to mount them directly to the caliper?

Mount them under the hood, :D

Not sure I'd mount them at the calipers, the water etc could seize the adjusters.

[bgbmxer]

Mount them under the hood, :D

Not sure I'd mount them at the calipers, the water etc could seize the adjusters.

dont most race cars have a place inside the interior where the brake lines and prop valve run through so they can adjust it on th fly?

more work but i might just do this when the time comes

[Aries_Turbo]

i mounted mine where the stock prop valve was supposed to go. i actually reach through the wheelwell to adjust it. turn the wheel and reach in.

Brian

[bgbmxer]

i would put it somehere for easy access since if ur gonna go from autocross to the drags the bias will need changed.

[Reeves]

i would put it somehere for easy access since if ur gonna go from autocross to the drags the bias will need changed.

I think I will be able to just reach behind the wheel to adjust. I'm going to be mounting them horizontal with the knob facing the back of the car.

[bgbmxer]

I think I will be able to just reach behind the wheel to adjust. I'm going to be mounting them horizontal with the knob facing the back of the car.

its gonna be like driving around trying to adjust a g valve and then it will rain and u willl probably have to do it again

[Reeves]

its gonna be like driving around trying to adjust a g valve and then it will rain and u willl probably have to do it again

I don't autocross the car (although, someday I would love to), so I really think I can just turn them almost all the way down, then keep backing them off till the tires lock, then put them back in a little. I really ought to do this with the skinny drag tires on the back though.

[bgbmxer]

I don't autocross the car (although, someday I would love to), so I really think I can just turn them almost all the way down, then keep backing them off till the tires lock, then put them back in a little. I really ought to do this with the skinny drag tires on the back though.

i thought u said u autocrossed to. i will be when my car get done and will have to most likely do what ur doing now. but if there are different tires ur gonna have to adjust lol.

did u connect ur two rear wheels at the hubs with tubing?

[Reeves]

i thought u said u autocrossed to. i will be when my car get done and will have to most likely do what ur doing now. but if there are different tires ur gonna have to adjust lol.

did u connect ur two rear wheels at the hubs with tubing?

No, the brakes are still diagonal split just like stock.

I also can't find the color tag on the prop valve. I have the one on the car, and another one in hand and I don't see any color anywhere?

[bgbmxer]

No, the brakes are still diagonal split just like stock.

I also can't find the color tag on the prop valve. I have the one on the car, and another one in hand and I don't see any color anywhere?

i didnt mean connecting the breaks i meant the structure of the swingarm itself. is that connected at the hubs with metal or not? im looking to do this with mine and need to see some pictures

[Reeves]

i didnt mean connecting the breaks i meant the structure of the swingarm itself. is that connected at the hubs with metal or not? im looking to do this with mine and need to see some pictures

I'm not sure what you mean. It's a chrome-moly tube from hub to hub, then 2 more chromemoly tubes that go up to the factory pivots, then 2 more chrome-moly tubes at a diagonal for bracing.

[bgbmxer]

I'm not sure what you mean. It's a chrome-moly tube from hub to hub, then 2 more chromemoly tubes that go up to the factory pivots, then 2 more chrome-moly tubes at a diagonal for bracing.

so you didnt connect the rear of the wingarm together making it a box is what im asking? since this is what i will be doing connecting the rear of the swingarm together where the spindles bolt on for more rigidity

[Force Fed Mopar]

Zombie thread! lol this is like the second old thread I've bumped in a few weeks :)

FWIW, your rear axle is for all intents and purposes the same as a 1st Gen DSM, and very similar to a Daytona (and the rest actually). So it should handle pretty good, albeit w/ proper tuning as I'm sure it does change things a bit.

[fishcleaner]

Looks great, nice work as always. Just break down an run the brake lines like a normal car. I think the Wilwood brakes are so much more efficient and thats why its locking up over the stock units. Wilwood just came out with an adjustable proportion valve that works like a stock unit, I would use that.

this is the unit
http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/DataSheets/ds715.pdf

[turbovanman²]

Looks great, nice work as always. Just break down an run the brake lines like a normal car. I think the Wilwood brakes are so much more efficient and thats why its locking up over the stock units. Wilwood just came out with an adjustable proportion valve that works like a stock unit, I would use that.

this is the unit
http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/DataSheets/ds715.pdf

I think I found my new prop valve, :hail:

[Reeves]

The brakes have worked well since after SDAC-19. I called Wilwood and told them my problem and they said I had way too aggressive of a pad. I ended up getting the pad they recommended and it works really well. If I try hard, I can still get the rears to lock up, but not near as bad as they were before. Next time I may go with even less aggressive than what I have now (BP-10 Smart Pads).

[rbryant]

Looks great, nice work as always. Just break down an run the brake lines like a normal car. I think the Wilwood brakes are so much more efficient and thats why its locking up over the stock units. Wilwood just came out with an adjustable proportion valve that works like a stock unit, I would use that.

this is the unit
http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/DataSheets/ds715.pdf

That prop valve still doesn't work the same way as the stock one does.

The stock unit works diagonally and has two parallel valves in it. It connects the DriverFront/PassRear and PassFront/DriverRear together diagonally and has a prop valve between each bank.

The unit you show still connects the fronts together directly (the two front outputs are really the same port) and has a single rear outlet. It would need two rear outputs to be a direct replacement.

It is a nice unit but it would still require some plumbing mods and does change how the system works because it changes it to connect the fronts directly and rears directly instead of using the stock diagonal method.

-Rich

[turbovanman²]

That prop valve still doesn't work the same way as the stock one does.

The stock unit works diagonally and has two parallel valves in it. It connects the DriverFront/PassRear and PassFront/DriverRear together diagonally and has a prop valve between each bank.

The unit you show still connects the fronts together directly (the two front outputs are really the same port) and has a single rear outlet. It would need two rear outputs to be a direct replacement.

It is a nice unit but it would still require some plumbing mods and does change how the system works because it changes it to connect the fronts directly and rears directly instead of using the stock diagonal method.

-Rich

Still, nothing wrong with a non diagonal system, most others use the front/rear thing anyhow.

Its definately a nicer choice especially if your redoing your lines anyhow, ;)

[rbryant]

Still, nothing wrong with a non diagonal system, most others use the front/rear thing anyhow.

Its definately a nicer choice especially if your redoing your lines anyhow, ;)

I agree completely. If you redo the lines then it is fine.

I was just pointing out that it is different so that people don't try to use it as a plug and play piece.

The valve's fixed .57 slope might not work quite right for our cars either.... All of our disc prop valves have slopes of .27 or .43.

That means that while the crack point is adjustable the slope to the rear isn't... So you can set the point where it starts to reduce the pressure to the rear brakes but not the rate that they increase.

Here is a chart that I made that shows the stock prop valves along with some mixing and matching of springs and orifices that never came from the factory.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25482&d=1284018877

One of These valves will surely work without having to redo the lines or buy an aftermarket part.


The springs in the prop valves control the crack point so...

I haven't tried it yet but in theory the way to fix the lbody brake balance is to steal the springs out of a yellow or white prop valve and just swap them with the lbody spring and use the stock lbody prop valve. That way you make the lbody valve into a "white" valve (spirit valve) without ever even having to disconnect the lines.

-Rich

[shackwrrr]

why not just 2 of these?

http://www.4wd.com/productdetails.aspx?partID=10027&utm_source=google&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=product

Just dial back some pressure to the rear, no need to change out the main prop valve.

[rbryant]

why not just 2 of these?

http://www.4wd.com/productdetails.aspx?partID=10027&utm_source=google&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=product

Just dial back some pressure to the rear, no need to change out the main prop valve.

It could work but I don't think it would do what you want unless you have a differential valve installed instead of a proportioning valve....

The main prop valve drops the pressure on the rear at the crack point as I showed in my chart.


If you then put another valve in there after the stock valve it would make another crack point on top of the stock one and another slope.

Then you end up with either a chart with double bend which would be seriously weird unless you set the prop valve to a lower pressure than the stock crack point.

If you set the crack point lower or equal that then all you really do is change the slope on the output and have no real adjustment... So basically it wouldn't work correctly unless you remove the stock valve.

If you were to remove the stock valve completely or find a differential valve that has no crack or slope (83 lbody, some older drum cars) it could allow for some interesting adjustments where you have a different bias on each rear brake.



-Rich

[daver]

If you're redoing the lines, why not just convert to a front/rear split, remove the stock prop valve and install an adjustable in the line to the rears?

Also there is a lighter weight non-vented stock type rotor available. KVR made them for the SRT (so the rotor is a hair thicker, designed to be used with the SRT's thinner rear pad setup) but they are stock dimensions with an aluminum hat. Kinda pricy, but they're out there if somebody is looking to shave more weight with stock type available parts.

[rbryant]

If you're redoing the lines, why not just convert to a front/rear split, remove the stock prop valve and install an adjustable in the line to the rears?



That is definitely an option but the aftermarket prop valves still have a .57 slope so they might not be a great fit for a FWD car which the factory used a .43 or .27 slope on...




Also there is a lighter weight non-vented stock type rotor available. KVR made them for the SRT (so the rotor is a hair thicker, designed to be used with the SRT's thinner rear pad setup) but they are stock dimensions with an aluminum hat. Kinda pricy, but they're out there if somebody is looking to shave more weight with stock type available parts.

Interesting. The SRT4/Neon/PT rear brake pads are exactly the same as our rear vented and non vented rear pads.

They are all the same part number from most manufacturers so I am not sure what you mean by thinner... The SRT4 rotor also has a deeper hat so you need a spacer behind it if you want to run it with our non vented backing plates. The intrepid pads were thinner than the SRT4 pads.

How much lighter are they? The 1G neon rotors are only 9lbs (2lbs lighter than SRT4 or non vented rear rotors).

-Rich

[Reeves]

http://kvrperformance.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=17441



Nice!!!!

And ONLY $595! LOL.

Hmmm......wonder if I can make my own?

[rbryant]

http://kvrperformance.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=17441



Nice!!!!

And ONLY $595! LOL.

Hmmm......wonder if I can make my own?


But they "make horsepower at the drive axle!" Wow that is quite a claim... (Break out your perpetual motion machines!) Of course they meant loses less power but it is still amusing...

I just called and they are discontinued so there is no point in looking into them.

They didn't even say how much they weighed...

I bet they were within a pound of the 1G neon rear rotors. I just got a pair of centric premiums for $65 shipped and put a 1/8" spacer behind the hat and they fit just fine at 9lbs each.

-Rich

[Reeves]

I bet they were within a pound of the 1G neon rear rotors. I just got a pair of centric premiums for $65 shipped and put a 1/8" spacer behind the hat and they fit just fine at 9lbs each.

-Rich


What do 1G Neon rear rotors with spacers weigh compared to 87-88 style non-vented non-drummed rear rotors?

[rbryant]

What do 1G Neon rear rotors with spacers weigh compared to 87-88 style non-vented non-drummed rear rotors?

They are the same weight.

The 1G neon rotor has the ebrake drum which adds a little but the 88 daytona rotor is a larger Diameter.

One advantage of the newer 89+ brakes is that the pads are the same as the neon/srt4 pads so there are a lot of good brake pad options for them. I am not sure what you can get with the 88 rears.

The 89+ rears can also use a concorde/intrepid rear caliper that is 36mm (same size as the vented caliper but narrower) instead of the normal 34mm if anyone happened to want more rear brake.

88 Daytona.
27454

95-99 Neon.
27455

I weighted my centric premium 1G neon rotors (I like the e-coat black paint) with the spacer (very light) and it still came in at 9lbs.

I have the spacers or you can use generic ones if you go that route.

I looked at using the full Neon rear brake setup but I ended up liking the non vented backing plates better.

The post showing the spacer on a non vented backing plate is here:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=734155&postcount=40

I need to do a KC article on rear brakes sometime over the holidays.

-Rich

["Top Fuel" Bender]

I need to do a KC article on rear brakes sometime over the holidays.

-Rich

Heck yeah
That's alot of good info right there :thumb:

[bakes]

http://kvrperformance.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=17441



Nice!!!!

And ONLY $595! LOL.

Hmmm......wonder if I can make my own?

or we can dream of these.
http://www.wilwood.com/Pdf/Flyers/Carbon_Ceramic_W6A_Brake_Kit.pdf

[Shadow]

They are the same weight.

-Rich

Did you actualy weigh them, Cause I don't get 9lbs when I weigh them.

[Shadow]

FTR I get 7lb 14oz for the stock undrilled 87-88 rear disc.

The only disc I've found to be lighter is the L-body non-vented front rotor at around 7lbs even. Only about 9" diam and 4 bolt pattern, not worth converting IMO because the 87-88's I'm going to use should be in the 7lb range drilled out and lightened.

[rbryant]

Did you actualy weigh them, Cause I don't get 9lbs when I weigh them.

I weighed the Neon rotor but not the 87 rotor.

-Rich

[Force Fed Mopar]

According to Auto Zone's site, the '87 rear rotor weighs 9.2 lbs, and the '89-up solid rear rotor weighs 11.2 lbs. The '87 Shelby Charger brake drum weighs 8.85 lbs, also according to their site.

[rbryant]

According to Auto Zone's site, the '87 rear rotor weighs 9.2 lbs, and the '89-up solid rear rotor weighs 11.2 lbs. The '87 Shelby Charger brake drum weighs 8.85 lbs, also according to their site.


I can verify that the 89 solid rotor is 11lbs and the 95-99 Neon solid rotor is just under 9lbs.

I would be interested to see a nice digital scale with a stock 87 rotor on it. Unfortunately they are a special order item so I can't really grab one and then return it.

Overall the extra .19" on the OD of the disc is going to weigh about 5oz (used a metal weights calculator) on the 87 rotor but the hub is bigger on the neon rotor which adds a little weight back. I can believe that it would be a wash from looking at it but I would like to weigh one on my mailing scale.... The specs from centric have been dead on for everything that I have measured so I tend to trust them.

I also like to use the more common and more readily available stuff so I chose the neon rotor with a spacer.

I have also heard a lot of bad things about the wedge parking brakes on the 87/88 cars so I avoid them.

-Rich

[Force Fed Mopar]

Yeah I don't like the wedge park brake either. Mostly because new calipers for that style are 145 bucks apiece :(

[shayne]

hey reeves, i like the work on your rear axle assy. i had a couple of questions, what kind and what size of chromoly are you using. 1 3/4"?, 2"?, is it 4130 or 4340, normalized or annealed? .120 wall? also what are your driving impressions with your setup on the roadways you drive. like on wet roads or roads with rough or broken up pavement.

[Shadowv4l]

Tag Color Function Material Split Point Slope
(none) Differential Brass - 1
Grey Differential-Proportioning Brass 500psi 0.27
Tan Differential-Proportioning Brass 600psi 0.43
White Differential-Proportioning Brass 750psi 0.43
Black Differential-Proportioning Brass 800psi 0.59

This table shows some of the vehicles that these valves were used in. Some bodies had different valves depending on their brake configurations (disc/drum, disc/disc, ABS, etc) and specfic body styles (2-door, 4-door, etc).
Tag Color Bodies
(none) E
Grey L, J, P
Tan K, P
White G, H
Black G, K


so...... My Prop valve has a green tag on it, its not the factory part since i did a rear disk conversion, now on a P body.

[Reeves]

hey reeves, i like the work on your rear axle assy. i had a couple of questions, what kind and what size of chromoly are you using. 1 3/4"?, 2"?, is it 4130 or 4340, normalized or annealed? .120 wall? also what are your driving impressions with your setup on the roadways you drive. like on wet roads or roads with rough or broken up pavement.

I used left over roll bar tubing, so it was 1 3/4" 4130 .083" wall tubing. I try not to drive it at all in the wet (unless I just happen to get caught out in it). I have 400lb springs in the front and 600 in the back, so it's pretty harsh stiff ride on any rough pavement.

[daver]

1st and 2nd gen non-SRT Neons use the same rear rotors and pads according to Rockauto. The 04 FSM, the SRT solid rotor is 3mm thicker than the non-SRT solid rotor. The backing plate on the SRT pads is then reduced 1.5mm to compensate for the additional rotor thickness.

It looks like some aftermarket manufacturers recognize the difference and list different rear pads for the SRT vs non-SRT rear rotors, however some do not.

[rbryant]

1st and 2nd gen non-SRT Neons use the same rear rotors and pads according to Rockauto. The 04 FSM, the SRT solid rotor is 3mm thicker than the non-SRT solid rotor. The backing plate on the SRT pads is then reduced 1.5mm to compensate for the additional rotor thickness.

It looks like some aftermarket manufacturers recognize the difference and list different rear pads for the SRT vs non-SRT rear rotors, however some do not.

Rockauto shows all of the rotors for neons so there are some things that aren't quite right.

The 1G neon had the thinner rotor and the 2G had a thicker one. The SRT4 used the 2G rotor.

There is also a Stratus rear rotor that is basically the same as the 2G neon rear rotor...

There isn't really a difference in the rear pads other than thickness and compound. For example there is one Hawk part number for stratus/intrepid/neon/89+solid rotor/89+ vented rotor.

The intrepid did however have less room for the pad than the neon (thicker disc, different backing plate) so some of the thicker pads won't work on an intrepid (Hawk actually made all of theirs thinner to fix this and only have one part number).

Intrepids also sometimes came with a different compound for the heavier car so neon guys sometimes use intrepid pads.


You can see the same thing with the PT cruiser front rotors where you sometimes see the SRT4 version and the PT version on rockauto even though the PTs came with the lighter version. I think you can also see the 11" RT rotors on the shadow, etc.


-Rich

[daver]

Rich,

That's what I'm saying, the 2nd gen Neon and the SRT-4 did not use the same rear rotor. The SRT rotor is 3mm thicker than the regular 2nd gen rear Neon rotor. I believe the 1st and 2nd gen regular Neon use the same rear disks, but never had a need to verify that.

Some of the parts suppliers on RockAuto recognize the different and spec different so if you look at say a 2004 SRT vs a 2004 R/T, some companies will spec different rotors and pads. The above info I posted was directly from the Mopar 04 FSM.

As long as you match up the correct rotors and pads you should be fine, but for example if you installed SRT-4 rear rotors with standard 2nd gen rear pads they may not fit..

EDIT: I have every mopar parts manual from 82-2008 so when I get a chance I'll dig through and post all the part numbers so we can see at least what chryco says interchanges.

[rbryant]

Rich,

That's what I'm saying, the 2nd gen Neon and the SRT-4 did not use the same rear rotor. The SRT rotor is 3mm thicker than the regular 2nd gen rear Neon rotor. I believe the 1st and 2nd gen regular Neon use the same rear disks, but never had a need to verify that.

Some of the parts suppliers on RockAuto recognize the different and spec different so if you look at say a 2004 SRT vs a 2004 R/T, some companies will spec different rotors and pads. The above info I posted was directly from the Mopar 04 FSM.

As long as you match up the correct rotors and pads you should be fine, but for example if you installed SRT-4 rear rotors with standard 2nd gen rear pads they may not fit..

EDIT: I have every mopar parts manual from 82-2008 so when I get a chance I'll dig through and post all the part numbers so we can see at least what chryco says interchanges.

You are right, the rotors are the same on all of the regular Neons and non turbo PT cruisers. The SRT4 and PT turbo rotors are thicker.

The pads should be the same. The base neon/pt pads could have been made thicker but I don't think that they were compounds might also vary... The intrepid pads will also work and are the thinnest combination they are also sometimes a different compound so neon guys have been known to use them as an upgrade.

The higher end pads like the Hawks or EBCs use the same pads for pretty much all of our rear discs.

-Rich