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View Full Version : Changing from 84 to 87 Electronics for TI-TII engine swap



Xtrempickup
04-25-2006, 09:27 AM
I am doing a TII conversion, but not coverting my TI motor to TII specs. I have an 87 Shelby Z with TII and 555 and i want to put it all under the hood of my TI 525 Laser. is it possible to swap over the computers and do a little creative re wiring to the stock harness, or do i need everything out of the 87 in the 84. I was going to convert the 84 motor to TII, but since i have this car, its all complete already and i dont have to worry about the TI rods giving from TII power. any help from anybody that has done this would be appreciated.

WVRampage
04-25-2006, 09:55 AM
yes it can be done with as you said som creative wiring, and you will have to run a wire for the fuel pump. The firewall plug in will not interchange so you will need to get a diagram of the to plug ins and remove the engine control part from the 84 and splice in the engine control part from the 87 that way you have the body wiring for the 84 and the engine part of the 87.take you time and it will all work out now the engine mounts will be different so u will have to use the 84 engine and trans mounts.

Xtrempickup
04-25-2006, 06:09 PM
the engine mounts are the same, its still the 2.2L older style mounts in both cars, shoudnt they be the same. i know the trans is diff, but the mounting should be in the same places as far as i know

Lee'sdaytona
04-25-2006, 07:56 PM
Just out of curiosity, what are you doing with the shell of that shelby? The seats looked pretty nice in it...too bad I already have an awesome set of burgendy leather seats in a daytona that I'm probably not going to keep much longer :(
Good luck with your swap
-Lee

SwiftTech
05-31-2006, 05:45 PM
My sugestion would be to put the entire wiring harness from the 87 into the 84. I will be doing this soon with my 84, originally I was going to use an 87 electronics but recently changed my mind to go with 89 smec electronics. I have the 84 service manuals if you need wiring diagrams.
Mechanically everything will bolt in, the bobble strut mount does not line up perfectly but a long bolt or new weld in tab will fix it. Remember to change both the shifter and cables as they are different from the 525 to the 555. Also remeber to use the 87 axles because they have larger splines on the trans end and are different lengths then the 84 ones.

Good luck on the swap, its good to know I'm not the only one doing this swap.

Lee'sdaytona
06-01-2006, 09:23 PM
wait 525's are not compatable with 520's and 555's?
I just picked up all the stick shift parts from an 86 mini...tbi....so I assume it had the 525? the cables look the same?
-Lee

MiniMopar
06-01-2006, 11:48 PM
Going fron 85 or 86 to 87 is not big deal. Just need to add a few wires and switch a coupl eof others around. Going from 84 to 87 might be a bit more involved. The 84 LM/PM setup is completely unique to 84. The wiring between the LM and PM may not be close enough to merit trying to do an overlay harness. I can't say for sure, since I don't have the 84 FSMs.

Note that the harness between the LM and PM does NOT go through the bulk head connector. It comes out of the LM, goes through a large grommet in the firewall, runs along the top of the firewall and over to the PM (with a few tails coming out along the way). If the 84 is routed similarly, then I would encourage you to swap out the entire LM/PM harness. That way you have all the right connectors for the MAP sensor, the throttle body, etc in all the right places. In the end it will probably save you work. A bit of splicing between this harness and the body harness may be needed, but you will be able to leave the 84 body harness in tact.

Good luck,

SwiftTech
06-02-2006, 11:41 AM
wait 525's are not compatable with 520's and 555's?
I just picked up all the stick shift parts from an 86 mini...tbi....so I assume it had the 525? the cables look the same?
-Lee

the shift pattern is the same but the 555's i've seen have had different cable ends on the crossover cable. instead of using a ball they use a stud with a rubber bushing. When I first swapped to the 555 I just modified the shift arm on the trans to accept the 525 cables and it sort of worked. but it didn't engage into 2nd very well even after adjusting the cables. If you compare the 525 and 555 shifters you will see the different mounting locations of the cables. The 525 cables are almost even and the 555 cables are offset around an inch. I will try and find some pics but I don't know if I have any. Hope all that was clear, ymmv.

SwiftTech
06-02-2006, 11:47 AM
its hard to see the difference in these pics but look at where the cables attach. First pic is the 555 shifter, second is the 525 shifter.
They can work just not very well in my experience.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/Short_shifter_2.JPG

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/altered7151/ccb2a177.jpg

Lee'sdaytona
06-02-2006, 04:40 PM
ok so how is it that all these people have put 555's into daytonas (previously 520) and caravans with the original shifter assembly?
-Lee

SwiftTech
06-02-2006, 07:36 PM
because the 520 and the 555 use the same shifter, the 525 and the 520/555 do not, it is not that big of a difference but it is a difference. Look at the shifters and cables, they are different. look not where the cable ends attache but where the cable housing is held at the front of the shifter. also this was just my experience, yours may be different.

Lee'sdaytona
06-02-2006, 08:25 PM
Oh ok I see what you mean....hmm....well I'll figure something out :)
-Lee

Xtrempickup
06-02-2006, 11:22 PM
sounds good i figured i would just swap the whole complete harness and logic module out and the engine module. i have all the shifter parts from the 555 car so im gonna use all those and that shifter since i now know its a little diff from the conversation.

Wes85L
07-01-2006, 12:44 AM
http://www.knizefamily.net/russ/auto/daytona/engine-bay-rewiring-sm.jpg

How can you work on that Russ? Are you an electrician or just very skilled? I wish I had a knack for wiring. I have the fsm's too and they only confuse me more. It makes me feel a t2 swap would be way over my head, wiring-wise if nothing else.

tryingbe
07-01-2006, 08:38 PM
85TI to 87TII is easy.

I've done it.

TopDollar69
07-03-2006, 10:57 PM
When I swapped my 84 Laser to TII, I swapped in a complete 85 TI harness from front to rear. It was a pain, but I think it was easier in the long run. I just added in the TPS, and the AIS wiring. Plus I had to add in some wiring in the interior to keep my electric fuel door and hatch release. I think it would be just as easy to drop in an 86 body harness that would connect right up to your 87 TII engine harness, then our only problem would be the headlights.

Xtrempickup
08-06-2006, 12:09 PM
anybody know what pins need to be added to a the TI harness so i can work the AIS and TPS on the blow through set up?? i dont have the time or the patience to get a 85 harness to tear my 84 apart and put in. would just like to get the ais and TPS wired so i can put the T2 turbo and exhaust manifold on and the TII 2 peice intake in.

TopDollar69
08-06-2006, 04:59 PM
It wont work with an 84 harness, the logic module connectors are smaller, and they dont have the same amount of pins. I found that out when I tried to put my 86 GLHS computer in my Laser back when it still had the original 84 harness in it. Also, an 85 engine harness will not work with an 84 dash harness, it will bolt up but it wont work. I dont have an 84 wiring schematic, but something important must be different. Im telling you, because Ive done it myself, swap the harness for an 85 or 86 its the easiest way to go.

Xtrempickup
08-06-2006, 05:31 PM
i dont have one so stuck there

Lee'sdaytona
08-06-2006, 10:07 PM
i dont have one so stuck there
The harness in my daytona that I'm parting out is in good shape...The only thing is I hacked up the dash board a little, because I spliced in and soldered the new connectors to convert to digital dash. Easy enought to convert back, unless you like digital.
-Lee

TopDollar69
08-06-2006, 10:52 PM
He will need one from an 85 or 86, this is very important if he wants to keep it as simple as possible. If you want to get into making a harness, Im pretty sure an 84 harness has been spliced with a SBEC harness before. I cant remember who did it, but I know it has been done.

MiniMopar
08-07-2006, 11:22 AM
http://www.knizefamily.net/russ/auto/daytona/engine-bay-rewiring-sm.jpg

How can you work on that Russ? Are you an electrician or just very skilled? I wish I had a knack for wiring. I have the fsm's too and they only confuse me more. It makes me feel a t2 swap would be way over my head, wiring-wise if nothing else.

I was totally reorganizing the engine bay harnesses. I was in the thick of it when I stepped back I saw what it looked like. Before I even started, I sat down with the FSMs for the years I was working on and made a conversion chart. It listed circuit numbers, names, guages and wire colors. Made it easier to go through without making mistakes.

MiniMopar
08-07-2006, 11:28 AM
Any pre-SMEC harness will convert to SMEC. SMECs are nice because all the ECU-to-engine wiring is self-contained. All you have to do it splice the ECU-to-dash circuits, of which there are only a few.

As far as the dash harnesses go, there are only a couple of circuits that run between the LM/PM/engine harnesses and the dash: power loss lamp, tach, navigator fuel monitor, brake pedal, and cruise control. The latter can be a bit confusing, since Chrysler changed how those wires function back and forth every year between 86 and 88.

SwiftTech
08-07-2006, 03:56 PM
If anybody needs I have the 84 wiring harness diagrams and can scan them in if needed.

I will be converting my 84 Dayton's wiring to 89 SMEC soon. A guy named Brandon, used to go by LaserB on td.com a while ago had a nice how to page a while back but all the wiring diagrams and pinouts he used are gone.:(

Xtrempickup
09-24-2006, 11:12 AM
Ok i need the continue where this thread left off. I got a 85 Harness for the whole inside of the car from the firewall to the tail lights. Everything complete from the block in the wall to fuses to everything. Now my question is, how the heck is this any diff than whats in my car already?? I have a complete 87 under the hood harness for the TII motor i have. What do i need to do with the 85 stuff now that i have it.

Captain Chaos
09-24-2006, 11:42 AM
My friend did his 84 Laser many years ago. He swapped the complete harness from front to rear over from an 87 Shelby Z. It is by far the easiest way rather than trying to piece it together.
The 85 harness bulkhead connector "should" match up to the 87 engine harness. Like someone mentioned earlier, you'll have to re-pin a couple things on the LM harness, but should be about all. I did my GLH-T harness to convert to T-II and there was an overlay for the TPS and AIS, but your harness is already set up for that if it came from an 87 T-II car. The headlighht portion will be slightly different because the Shelby is a single headlight set-up.

TopDollar69
09-24-2006, 11:50 AM
The 85 bulkhead connector has less pins than the 87 connector. They will not bolt up to each other.

Xtrempickup
09-24-2006, 03:59 PM
anybody got the diagrams from both the 85 and 87

TopDollar69
09-24-2006, 05:49 PM
I bought the Chrysler service manual wiring diagram books off ebay. I never paid over $20 for one, and I have 85 to 91. I can make scans for you, but its very nice to have the actual book.

Xtrempickup
09-24-2006, 05:57 PM
the scans will work, I really dont have the money to spend on all this stuff or the time to look for it and wait for it since pretty soon its gonna be winter and i wna have the car running before then

Xtrempickup
09-24-2006, 09:44 PM
how is the GLHS logic module different that a standard TII module

TopDollar69
09-24-2006, 09:46 PM
The map sensor is located on-in the logic module.

MiniMopar
09-25-2006, 12:27 AM
how is the GLHS logic module different that a standard TII module

The 87 LMs changed slightly. The pinout on the connectors changed a bit, the MAP sensor moved into the engine bay and the cruise control moved into the LM itself. However the L-bodies, since they were slated to be replaced by the P-bodies, did not receive these changes. Therefore, the 87 L-bodies are wired exactly like the 86s. Thus, an 87 GLHS LM is really an 86 T2 LM. Compared to the other T2 cals, the GLHS cals delivered a little less boost. This was out of fear of the A525 torque specs, so it has been stated.

Xtrempickup
09-25-2006, 11:12 AM
well i have all the parts from the 87 so a MAP under hood isnt a problem. i guess i need to pull a 85 engine harness and take my 87 and lay it out so i can add pins where they belong. so plugging the 85 wiring into the 87 logic/ power module wont be a problem? or do i need to change pins still