Looking for a wideband

[Twisted Noodle]

I have found a couple of these on Ebay Innovate (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=230345822976)

Is this everything I need to get me started? I do have a laptop and I do realize that there is no digital display.

If this in not a good buy can someone please point me in the right direction?

[cordes]

If you have a laptop you plan on using with it, that's a good choice. Lots of guys run that WB.

[Twisted Noodle]

Thanks Cordes that's all I needed to know.

After a couple more paychecks I'll purchase the digital gauge to go with it. I just picked up an intercooler, BOV, Amsoil air filter, air shocks, a set of NOS fog lights, and getting just tires now instead of tires/rims.. bank account is getting low. lol

I want to get all this stuff done before SDAC, but it seems I am running out of time. I travel for work so I only have the weekends...:banghead:

[turbovanman²]

Spend $40 more dollars and get a kit with gauge. They are pretty useless without being able to see your AF at a glance.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Innovate-LC1-Wideband-w-DB-Gauge-Kit-LC-1-Red-o2_W0QQitemZ170337644791QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_ Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item27a8ea30f7&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A1171%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A130 8

[dr_amx]

Not to hijack but I am looking for a wideband for my TIII myself. What other suggestions do people have as far as one that high functionality and OK price? What make one better than the next?

[turbovanman²]

A mag tested a bunch of them and the Innovate came up as the best and most accurate. For the price, you really can't go wrong. If you want tons of features, get the XD16 kit.

[cordes]

I own a couple PLX units and haven't had any problems yet. As Simon said, you can't go wrong with that Inovate kit for the price.

[dr_amx]

Great I am looking around and the lowest price seems to be around $329 does that sound right? Also since the wideband is more accurate will that eliminate some of the jumping around that the narrowband gauge that I have now does? Or is that more of a tune of the car issue? I think the current narrow band gauge is way inaccurate. Thanks for the Info!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/INNOVATE-LC-1-XD-16-Wideband-O2-Standalone-Gauge-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2 Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3 a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem 35a1b3169eQQitemZ230346135198QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomot iveQ5fTools

http://www.injectedperformance.com/ec/product.aspx?ID=3878

[85daytona]

The narrow band 02 sensor is essentially a switch that is why a narrow band arcs back and forth a wideband will not do it. It could be a creepy weird tune but highly unlikely. I have the XD-16 I don't know if it was really worth it. The max and min function is pretty much useless. However it allows you to use their aux box to really datalog if you wanna spend even more $$$. I believe you need the XD-16 to be able to daisy chain the whole system together.

[cordes]

The narrow band 02 sensor is essentially a switch that is why a narrow band arcs back and forth a wideband will not do it. It could be a creepy weird tune but highly unlikely. I have the XD-16 I don't know if it was really worth it. The max and min function is pretty much useless. However it allows you to use their aux box to really datalog if you wanna spend even more $$$. I believe you need the XD-16 to be able to daisy chain the whole system together.

The stock electronics should oscillate between rich and lean regardless of which sensor is used.

[GLHNSLHT2]

They do, but you're on a much "narrow"er band of voltage so you see the oscillation a lot more with a narrow band gauge. Same thing applies to having a Narrow 30" HG to 0"HG (vacuum) gauge vs. a gauge that reads from 30"hg to 30lbs of boost. The amount the needle moves while cruising is less on the boost gauge vs. the vacuum only gauge. So on a widband gauge the needle or readout will just twitch around stoich instead of the swinging motion of the narrow band gauge.

[cordes]

They do, but you're on a much "narrow"er band of voltage so you see the oscillation a lot more with a narrow band gauge. Same thing applies to having a Narrow 30" HG to 0"HG (vacuum) gauge vs. a gauge that reads from 30"hg to 30lbs of boost. The amount the needle moves while cruising is less on the boost gauge vs. the vacuum only gauge. So on a widband gauge the needle or readout will just twitch around stoich instead of the swinging motion of the narrow band gauge.

I see what you are saying there. One of my WBs just has the numerical display and the other I haven't had running for very long so I guess I'm not accustomed to looking at a needle, or set of lights yet.

[turbovanman²]

Great I am looking around and the lowest price seems to be around $329 does that sound right? Also since the wideband is more accurate will that eliminate some of the jumping around that the narrowband gauge that I have now does? Or is that more of a tune of the car issue? I think the current narrow band gauge is way inaccurate. Thanks for the Info!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/INNOVATE-LC-1-XD-16-Wideband-O2-Standalone-Gauge-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2 Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3 a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem 35a1b3169eQQitemZ230346135198QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomot iveQ5fTools

http://www.injectedperformance.com/ec/product.aspx?ID=3878

That's about right, but if you dont' need all those features, just get the one I linked earlier.

As for jumping around, thats normal, the computer toggles the fuel system rich/lean, which the sensors pick up. Jay describes it more in detail.

[dr_amx]

I guess that's part of the problem I don't know what I need or want. I want to be able to datalog on a laptop and tune the car. Also I have read about the ability for a wideband to read egt and eliminate the need for the computers o2 sensor that sounds nice. I also found this product in another post what do you think?

http://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=149

[GLHNSLHT2]

You can't go wrong with the Innovate stuff. A guage and LC-1 kit goes for less than $200 on Ebay. www.innovatemotorsports.com. Just look around and read.

A wideband doesn't do EGT. But with a wideband you don't need an EGT gauge IMO at all. The LC-1 from Innovate will replace the stock O2 sensor's signal. But it's not recommended to be installed in the stock location.

[turbovanman²]

I guess that's part of the problem I don't know what I need or want. I want to be able to datalog on a laptop and tune the car. Also I have read about the ability for a wideband to read egt and eliminate the need for the computers o2 sensor that sounds nice. I also found this product in another post what do you think?

http://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=149


You can't go wrong with the Innovate stuff. A guage and LC-1 kit goes for less than $200 on Ebay. www.innovatemotorsports.com. Just look around and read.

A wideband doesn't do EGT. But with a wideband you don't need an EGT gauge IMO at all. The LC-1 from Innovate will replace the stock O2 sensor's signal. But it's not recommended to be installed in the stock location.

I already showed him that in post 4, :thumb:

I am still running an EGT gauge, I still like to see my exhaust temps as timing affects it big time.

[cordes]

I already showed him that in post 4, :thumb:

I am still running an EGT gauge, I still like to see my exhaust temps as timing affects it big time.

+1 for still running an EGT. There are certainly multiple schools of thought on the subject as we saw at SDAC last year. I'm going to go ARFCOM style and suggest to get both.

[supercrackerbox]

Along this subject- what does it mean if your O2 readings don't oscillate at idle? (narrowband)

[shelbymopar89]

Along this subject- what does it mean if your O2 readings don't oscillate at idle? (narrowband)

If it was working fine before, from what I have seen it means your O2 sensor is on its way out the door.

[turbovanman²]

Along this subject- what does it mean if your O2 readings don't oscillate at idle? (narrowband)

It means your running too rich/lean or you have another bad sensor or the oxgyen sensor is bad.

To check your sensor, go here-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=22

[cordes]

It means your running too rich/lean or you have another bad sensor or the oxgyen sensor is bad.

To check your sensor, go here-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=22

Some people might be running a non O2 feedback cal too. Not a ton of those out there though.

[turbovanman²]

Some people might be running a non O2 feedback cal too. Not a ton of those out there though.

Good point, mine will be that way soon, :thumb:

[cordes]

Good point, mine will be that way soon, :thumb:

I'm toying with the notion of it, but I'm not sure that's what I want to do yet.

[turbovanman²]

I'm toying with the notion of it, but I'm not sure that's what I want to do yet.

A dyno will be the easiest way, and I have access to free time, so maybe even this sat I'll try it.

[TurboII]

way is it good to have non-feedback o2?

[turbovanman²]

way is it good to have non-feedback o2?

You can lean it out in cruise etc for better fuel economy. Having a feedback system is hard to tune for best mpg and they are setup to light the cat off, not mpg.

[GLHNSLHT2]

It just allows you to tune your a/f a little easier if you can and want to tune it exactly. That's a lot of pain staking time though. For cruise and idle close enough is good enough and let the ECU figure out the rest. In boost and WOT is all you really need to be almost exact on.

[GLHNSLHT2]

You can lean it out in cruise etc for better fuel economy. Having a feedback system is hard to tune for best mpg and they are setup to light the cat off, not mpg.

wether it's feeding back or not doesn't make it any harder to tune for best MPG.

[turbovanman²]

wether it's feeding back or not doesn't make it any harder to tune for best MPG.

Yeah, its alot harder with feedback, without, its pretty simple.

[GLHNSLHT2]

your just tuning the wrong thing Simon. I can have my car running leaner using the feedback quicker and easier than tuning the calibration. Just because you can't figure it out doesn't mean it's harder. The Calibration does have to be within 25% of what fuel trim you're trying to run to compensate though. Maybe that's your problem. But with a scanner plugged in so you can see how much it's trying to adapt it's easy to see. I had to add 25% more fuel to my idle fuel to allow my car to run after putting on my new intake, ported head, and tube header and it still needs more fuel to be dead nuts but the ECU can adjust it out right now at least. Before changing the fuel it was trying to idle the car at 18:1.

[turbo84voyager]

I like my AEM wideband. I believe it was $250 and works great. For tunning I still like an EGT gauge for the timing reasons. The EGT comes in very handy tuning a g-head 2.5

[cordes]

Yeah, its alot harder with feedback, without, its pretty simple.

Actually, you just need to move the O2 constants over a bit and it will hunt for a higher AFR.

[turbovanman²]

your just tuning the wrong thing Simon. I can have my car running leaner using the feedback quicker and easier than tuning the calibration. Just because you can't figure it out doesn't mean it's harder. The Calibration does have to be within 25% of what fuel trim you're trying to run to compensate though. Maybe that's your problem. But with a scanner plugged in so you can see how much it's trying to adapt it's easy to see. I had to add 25% more fuel to my idle fuel to allow my car to run after putting on my new intake, ported head, and tube header and it still needs more fuel to be dead nuts but the ECU can adjust it out right now at least. Before changing the fuel it was trying to idle the car at 18:1.

I can and have figured it out but its still easier if you have access to a dyno just to tune open loop. Remember, most standalones are open loop. The only reason OE's have closed loop is for the cat. That's it.


Actually, you just need to move the O2 constants over a bit and it will hunt for a higher AFR.

True, Rob mentioned that but its still a pain and no one has really figured it out yet. :(

[cordes]

True, Rob mentioned that but its still a pain and no one has really figured it out yet. :(

I know there are guys doing it with the LM. Frank messed with it a little and had great success. There is an explanation of how to do it in the TLM thread.

[supercrackerbox]

Guess I should have specified that the O2 sensor is brand new.