Is The '87 GLHS Selling For More Than The '86 GLHS?

[Marcus86GLHS]

Here's what NADA says for both:

1986:
http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-1-5013-0-0-0&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5014&y=1986&m=1349&d=5419&c=7&vi=86181&da=-1

1987:
http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-1-5013-0-0-0&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5014&y=1987&m=1349&d=5420&c=7&vi=86183&da=-1


Isn't the NADA just a database for actual car transactions? Not pending sales, or listed sales, but actual transactions on sold cars right? Or do they derive their numbers from some other methodology?

If so, are the 87's really selling for more than the 86's? Or, has NADA made an error here?


Last question: has a 1987 GLHS ever, anywhere, sold for $16,325.00?

[BadAssPerformance]

Interesting... not sure where they get the data from.

[Chad T]

I'd say you could reverse those two and they'd be fairly accurate.

[168glhs1986]

ahem.....bulls^$t

[1966 dart wagon]

Here's what NADA says for both:

1986:
http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-1-5013-0-0-0&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5014&y=1986&m=1349&d=5419&c=7&vi=86181&da=-1

1987:
http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-1-5013-0-0-0&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5014&y=1987&m=1349&d=5420&c=7&vi=86183&da=-1


Isn't the NADA just a database for actual car transactions? Not pending sales, or listed sales, but actual transactions on sold cars right? Or do they derive their numbers from some other methodology?

If so, are the 87's really selling for more than the 86's? Or, has NADA made an error here?


Last question: has a 1987 GLHS ever, anywhere, sold for $16,325.00?

interesting, I also would like that question answered

[contraption22]

Who cares what the NADA guide says anyway. You really think there are people cruising used car lots looking for GLHS's?

[86Shelby]

Who cares what the NADA guide says anyway. You really think there are people cruising used car lots looking for GLHS's?

I always keep an eye out. . .

[Marcus86GLHS]

there's been two or three very nice #9 condition, beautiful all-over, unmolested, low mileage 87 GLHS cars for sale on ebay in past year or so, and none of them broke thru the $9,000 mark let alone the $16,000 level. ebay is a huge place for exposure to all sorts of buyers so i've always thought of ebay as a decent source to gage car prices, not the best maybe, but good.

thats why the NADA data seemed so whacked out. i would like to know how that organization justifies their data on collector cars (they have a seperate section for such cars) , maybe they know something we do not.

[Goose]

The NADA prices are derived from reported values to the DMV. Most people report lower values than what they actually pay to save sales tax. Unfortunately this lowers the NADA averages but everyone knows a collector car is worth what a person is willing to pay for it not what some agency says its worth.

[contraption22]

The NADA prices are derived from reported values to the DMV. Most people report lower values than what they actually pay to save sales tax. Unfortunately this lowers the NADA averages but everyone knows a collector car is worth what a person is willing to pay for it not what some agency says its worth.

Exactly....

As far as the state knows, I paid $100 for my Acclaim, while similar examples are seen selling at a whopping $1000-2000.

[Turbodave]

Anyone heard from Lynn Traverse (sp?) lately? He used to be pretty active on the forums and mailing lists and was a NADA advisor regarding the value on our cars.

[Marcus86GLHS]

".......The NADA prices are derived from reported values to the DMV.........."



Connecticut is like many other states: they abolished the "reported" sales prices for purposes of calculating taxes on used car sales. CT, like others, uses a database (like NADA) to determine what your sales tax will be on used cars/vehicles. When I bought my GLHS in 2001, I paid sales tax on a sales price of about $500 as I recall even though the actual transaction was 20 times that.

That being the case, how could NADA rely upon data taken from the taxing authorities in the states to set NADA fair market estimates for collector cars? Seems like a poor decision on NADA's part.

And, to set the top value of an 87S at over $16 grand as they have done here, wouldnt NADA need a consumated sale on-record of an 87S at that price? Was there ever one? Or do they just pull these values out of their hat?

[sy2206]

I'd say you could reverse those two and they'd be fairly accurate.

I agree 100%.

[neonsox]

I find the scrutiny in the car enthusiast world to be amazing. Not only is there brand loyalty, but then there's model loyalty, and now - YEAR LOYALTY. That's pretty funny. I mean I understand why since holding onto an old car is an investment and there were different changes from year to year, but then it turns into an Alpha issue. "My '86 is better than any '87". It happens, don't deny it.

[WickedShelby88]

I'm not a big fan of the NADA cause it has guys thinking they are sitting on gold or when you have lots of calls to a guy with a beat to snot 89 shelby and then he won't take less than 900 for it. Yeah a car is worth what someone is willing to pay for sure. That is why I'm unimpressed with the NADA giving some people a false sense of how to price their vehicle. If there is enough interest then ebay it or try to sell to who will pay the most, but don't just go up and say well NADA says this.. I think some of this NADA business drove up the price of the muscle car.

[Marcus86GLHS]

"......but then it turns into an Alpha issue. "My '86 is better than any '87". It happens, don't deny it. .........."


I'm not sure what you are getting at there, what I was trying to learn about was the process NADA uses in posting their "fair values" for collector cars. What struck me was the high value on the 87S. Of course nobody has knowledge of every single sale of all 87S's but between the various car web sites (such as this one), the various car clubs, sights like ebay, and other sources for info, I just cannot understand why NADA is telling the world that the high value on an 87S is over 16 grand. Read their additional info on "high value", it specifically states:

"Note: This value does not represent a "100 Point" or "# 1" vehicle *.
* "100 Point" or "# 1" vehicle is not driven. It would generally be in a museum or transported in an enclosed trailer to concourse judging and car shows. This type of car would be stored in a climate-regulated facility"




So in theory, they are sorta saying that even the 16 grand could be eclipsed right?

NADA's apparent sillyness wouldn't matter if there were not plenty of sellers who actually quote the NADA numbers during negotiations.

[neonsox]

I don't think the NADA numbers mean anything to anybody but the common car dealer. And not even they really go by them. I doubt a GLHS with 8 miles on the odometer would fetch anywhere near $16K these days, sadly. Not even in these forums. Out in the the rest of the world, these cars are virtually unknown.

So my point was that there's a lot of inter-brand bickering that really should not go on. There's a lot of elitism and snobby attitudes about who drives what and what it's worth instead of a general helpful attitude. When it comes down to it, ALL TM's share the same DNA, the same parts, and are looked at the same way by the rest of the automotive world. Not everybody is like that, so I'm not directing that at you, but it's frustrating to see how a one year difference is even that big of a deal in price - especially when the changes weren't monumental.

[johnl]

The institutional clients of NADA and Kelley (banks and taxing authorities) actually subscribe to the NADA/Kelley databases and they therefore have input and clout in the determination of the methodology of valuation. What we, as consumers who actually buy and sell, think or do, is "nada." LOL

Another thing, the smaller the sample, the less reliable the results.

[BadAssPerformance]

I'm not a big fan of the NADA cause it has guys thinking they are sitting on gold or when you have lots of calls to a guy with a beat to snot 89 shelby and then he won't take less than 900 for it. Yeah a car is worth what someone is willing to pay for sure. That is why I'm unimpressed with the NADA giving some people a false sense of how to price their vehicle. If there is enough interest then ebay it or try to sell to who will pay the most, but don't just go up and say well NADA says this.. I think some of this NADA business drove up the price of the muscle car.

NADA is very helpfull in determining value of a GLHS vs. an Omni if said GLHS is unfortunately in an accident.

There will always be people who think their car is worth more than it is, especially when they have no idea until they read ro see something. Is this Daytona you mention the one who was advertizing for $500 then after you talked to him he was asking $750?

[neonsox]

My car, SL #63 (87K miles), according to NADA...

Original MSRP in 1987: $16,995

As of today, according to NADA:

Low Retail - $3,175
Average Retail - $5,850
High Retail - $11,550

I bought the car for far less than "low retail" in December and I'd say it's in Average to High condition. NADA is way off, and this is a numbered collector car.

Next up, my '04 Neon SXT...

Base MSRP in 2004: $15,800

As of today, according to NADA (adjusted for 57K miles):

In Rough Shape - $3,400
Trade-In Average - $4,200
Clean Trade - $4,850
Clean Retail - $6,250

Now I know the SXT isn't a collector car but those prices are again inflated. I'd say it's very clean, almost show room, but there's no way I'm getting $4,200 on a trade and I sure wouldn't be able to sell it outright for 5 or 6,000 bucks.

So it really doesn't matter what the car is unless maybe it's a Honda or a Toyota because of the import myth. Those numbers are absolutely meaningless. It's only worth what you can sell it for, just like anything else you own.

[Marcus86GLHS]

John so what you are saying is that NADA is not a database of actual transactions?

Okay now that makes sense to me, as it explains a lot of the examples given above. Thanks.

So as a buyer, confronted with a seller who is waving "NADA value" in front of me for his collector car, I should wisely disregard it?

[sy2206]

I find the scrutiny in the car enthusiast world to be amazing. Not only is there brand loyalty, but then there's model loyalty, and now - YEAR LOYALTY. That's pretty funny. I mean I understand why since holding onto an old car is an investment and there were different changes from year to year, but then it turns into an Alpha issue. "My '86 is better than any '87". It happens, don't deny it.

I don't think anyone here is trying to say that.....


It's frustrating to see how a one year difference is even that big of a deal in price

Well, sorry to hear that you're frustrated, but the reality of it is, that's how it is. How do you explain the value difference between a Slant6 Cuda and a Hemi car. These 2 Cuda's are the same year, same color, same body style, but have a different engine, and their prices vary by hundreds of thouands of dollars. Why? Supply and demand. It doesn't mean one is better then the other, it's just supply and demand. More people want the Hemi. More people like the fact that the prodcution numbers are lower, making the car more rare. I'm sure there's some old man out there who bought a Brown Slant6 Cuda years ago, and would kill to find another original Brown Slant6 Cuda today. And this old man would prefer that car over a Hemi car, but this guy is 1 in a million. The Hemi cars are worth more, because of supply and demand. If you're frustrated that a model year(read next paragraph) can dictate a cars value, you must be PISSED that an engine can change a cars value.


It's frustrating to see how a one year difference is even that big of a deal in price - especially when the changes weren't monumental.

Huh? Have you seen both cars side by side? The changes are HUGE!! Production of 500 vs 1000 to start off with. Completely different body style, which means different handling, and a different feel of the car when it's going down the road. The 86's are much more nimble, and have superior handling, but the 87 rides a little smoother and a lot of people like the more sleek look. If you have the chance to drive both, DO IT!!! I've owned and driven both. Just as in any contrast/comparison, there are advantages and disadvantages to both models. Yes, they share the majority of the same engine, same dash, and a bunch of suspension pieces, but there are a lot of differences between these two cars.

I'm not at all trying to start the flinging poo back and forth between 86 and 87 S owners on which is better, I'm just saying there are major differences between the cars, and those differences WILL effect the value.

[oldgregg]

I'd say all you Omni GLHS guys shoud realize you don't have a Lambo or Ferrari & the only thing in its favor over an 87 S is there were less made.

In the end it's still a 4 door econobox of a car & that's how the average "joe" sees them.

[GLHS592]

Here goes the same old argument...why do I even try?


I'd say all you Omni GLHS guys shoud realize you don't have a Lambo or Ferrari & the only thing in its favor over an 87 S is there were less made.

In the end it's still a 4 door econobox of a car & that's how the average "joe" sees them.

That's the way most people see it. I hate to tell you guys this, but turbo Dodge guys are probably the ONLY ones in the world that seem to like minivans and 4 door hatchbacks better than 2 door sporty cars. 2 doors will always trump 4 doors in the collector car hobby. I've yet to hear anybody outside of this small community that prefers the Omni over the Charger.

From the "chatter" I've heard in the last two years, I believe NADA is slightly high on the values of both. I've heard (can't confirm it) of a couple Charger GLHS's going for prices that would astonish most of you. The only out of whack price I've seen is the guy that bought that low mileage one owner 1987 GLHS on here lately.

You guys gotta realize that www.turbo-mopar.com and www.turbododge.com aren't the only places these cars change hands. You also gotta realize that a GLHS isn't the run of the mill turbo Mopar. They are in fact "real" Shelby cars. There are "Shelby" guys out there that aren't Ford or Dodge guys. They collect "true" Shelby cars. Some of them are finally recognizing the Whittier built Mopars.

[Marcus86GLHS]

"...... I've heard (can't confirm it) of a couple Charger GLHS's going for prices that would astonish most of you. ........"



There's the data i was hoping to find, can you elaborate more specifics? Has a 1987 GLHS ever, anywhere, sold for $16,000? NADA seems to be telling us "yes".

Look folks who effin cares what NADA says, and most of us realize these cars are not ever gonna be highly valued in the car market, fine that great.........my curiousity was in the methods NADA uses to post their values. The only reason i was curious was because i see sellers quoting NADA for these cars all the time.........if NADA is b-crap, then the sellers should know this and stop quoting NADA numbers.

[WickedShelby88]

It would be a little invasive to some but it would be nice if we could start a tally including the number of what each S sold for to get a better idea of how the values have fluctuated. I'm sure those of you who own and have purchased them have a good idea of that more so than NADA, but I think some of us might be curious as to what the real numbers are.

[168glhs1986]

2 doors will always trump 4 doors in the collector car hobby. I've yet to hear anybody outside of this small community that prefers the Omni over the Charger..

That's exactly why I bought this thing, for the IRONY. The 87 GLHS was suppossed to LOOK like a sports car, the OMNI based GLHS was never intended to be a sports car. It came out in 1978 or so and it saved Chryslers ---.

So here you have this piece of ---- econobox that was turned into a racer wanna be by Carroll Shelby. Come on, that has to be the best Shelby car ever! The only other Shelby car/trucks that were not trying to be a sports car was the Lancer. and the Dakota. Everything else was trying to be a sports car.

When I wanted a sports car, I bought a Porsche 911, a 1998 Toyota Supra Twin Turbo, a 1995 Mazada RX7 Twin Turbo, a 1972 Datsun 240z. I have since sold them all but those are sports cars. What do everyone of those cars have in commen???? REAR WHEEL DRIVE!

My point is...if you have too try hard to be something you aren't your not fooling anyone.

Carroll drove his 86 #001 on a regular basis when he could've driven his Cobra Supersnake, his Daytona Coupe, his GT350, shall I continue??? Yes it might be because if he wrecked his GLHS, he wouldn't be trashing something priceless, but I feel it's for another reason. He gets the IRONY. He invented the IRONY. Shelby is all about the IRONY. Sticking it to Ferarri with a Dodge Omni with four doors. Please, that's on of the top 10 best car stories from the 80's.

[Marcus86GLHS]

".....Shelby is all about the IRONY........."


very well put!

anyone who has been following actual transaction prices on the shelby-dodge cars knows for certain that, all else being equal, the 86S does command more money (roughly 25% more) that the 87S, that cannot be disputed.........well, unless you listen to NADA.

that's not to be misinterpreted as the 86S being better than the 87, rather it's just the market talking.

[johnl]

John so what you are saying is that NADA is not a database of actual transactions?

Okay now that makes sense to me, as it explains a lot of the examples given above. Thanks.

So as a buyer, confronted with a seller who is waving "NADA value" in front of me for his collector car, I should wisely disregard it?


Marcus, I do not know anything about NADA's methods; all I'm saying is that I suspect that they comply with the demands of their subscribers. And, I would imagine that when the data is thin, as in a lack of verifiable transactions, they are forced to extrapolate or project or do whatever they have to do to fill that blank spot in their book because somebody at some bank or DMV office does not pay for a blank spot in the NADA book - they subscribe, they pay, and they expect an answer so they can make a loan or assess a tax.

[ShelbyTC16v]

FWIW
I've got an old magazine stashed away somewhere that has an article on the top 10 collectable cars from the 80's. The Charger GLHS is 1 of those cars. I remember them saying "although the Omni is quicker, the Charger is sportier and will be worth more in the long run".

[skitzo_inc]

Next up, my '04 Neon SXT...

Base MSRP in 2004: $15,800

As of today, according to NADA (adjusted for 57K miles):

In Rough Shape - $3,400
Trade-In Average - $4,200
Clean Trade - $4,850
Clean Retail - $6,250

Now I know the SXT isn't a collector car but those prices are again inflated. I'd say it's very clean, almost show room, but there's no way I'm getting $4,200 on a trade and I sure wouldn't be able to sell it outright for 5 or 6,000 bucks.

So it really doesn't matter what the car is unless maybe it's a Honda or a Toyota because of the import myth. Those numbers are absolutely meaningless. It's only worth what you can sell it for, just like anything else you own.

...I was offered, in 11-08 6K for a trade in on my 04 SXT. When gas goes up, the price of these cars go up. I'm waiting for gas to hit 4-5$ (not saying I want it to, but it's gonna happen...) and then I can sell my neon for more than I paid for it, and get outta debt, pick up an SRT, be on my way...

[jckrieger]

I'd say all you Omni GLHS guys shoud realize you don't have a Lambo or Ferrari & the only thing in its favor over an 87 S is there were less made.

In the end it's still a 4 door econobox of a car & that's how the average "joe" sees them.

I have an 86 GLHS that I bought from a fellow engineer at work. Out of all the cars in the world, he drove 250 miles to pick up an 86 GLHS. I've been to two auto-x events with the car, and at both events there were at least 2 individuals who said A: The 86 GLHS is their favorite car of all time, or B: They were actively seeking an 86 GLHS. I have NEVER heard anything like that at all while running my 87 CSX or my 91 Spirit RT at a race event!

-Clark

[Marcus86GLHS]

"......I remember them saying "although the Omni is quicker, the Charger is sportier and will be worth more in the long run". ........."


could happen. but right now, transactions are for sure suggesting the 86S is still trading for more than the 87, all else being the same. Now that i have a better understanding of how NADA works their data, I would not trust their database one bit.

The 1968 Hemi Road Runner, even though it was the most-produced Hemi Road Runner out of the four years it was made, still trades for higher than any of the other years the engine/car was offered (1968-1971), but the 68 Hemi RR was the first year the combo was offered. I beleive this might partially explain it higher value over the '69-'71 versions.

IMO same applies to the 86 GLHS, it was the first, giving it an edge in value over the 87. NADA has it backwards as another has suggested.

[johnl]

Another thing about the NADA data base - since there were 2X as many '87s as '86s, there may well be 2X as many data points. So, if quiet affluent collectors decide to buy a GLHS, they might grab the first one that comes along and that could tend to affect the price of '87 cars sooner than '86 cars, the '87s would be ahead on the curve.

[ShelbyTC16v]

I love it! Battle of the "S"s. Let the war begin....http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww244/shelbytc16v/lurk.gif

[168glhs1986]

I have 2 GLHS's for sale. Ones a 1986 in Mint condition with only 1 thousand miles on it. The other is a 1987 GLHS in Mint condition with only 1 thousand miles on it.

Which one is worth more?

[jckrieger]

Clearly the 87, as there are always more 86S cars at SDAC :)

[ShelbyTC16v]

The only "real" answer here is one that we all know. It's only worth what someone will give you. If somebody wants it bad enough, they will pay more than anybody else. But this works for everything, not just cars. So in the end, there is no right or wrong answer to which one is worth more.

....okay back to http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww244/shelbytc16v/lurk.gif

[168glhs1986]

The only "real" answer here is one that we all know. It's only worth what someone will give you. If somebody wants it bad enough, they will pay more than anybody else. But this works for everything, not just cars. So in the end, there is no right or wrong answer to which one is worth more.

....okay back to http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww244/shelbytc16v/lurk.gif

You have 87 GLHS car #0002? Very cool.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. How do you think all those rich nerds can pull the trophy wife? It's not their beuatiful wallet is it?

[ShelbyTC16v]

You have 87 GLHS car #0002? Very cool.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. How do you think all those rich nerds can pull the trophy wife? It's not their beuatiful wallet is it?



A big Corvette and a small...you know what.

:lol::lol:

[Marcus86GLHS]

".....So in the end, there is no right or wrong answer to which one is worth more........"


i agree.

i started this thread not to debate which S car is "better" but rather to question NADA's data.

[168glhs1986]

".....So in the end, there is no right or wrong answer to which one is worth more........"


i agree.

i started this thread not to debate which S car is "better" but rather to question NADA's data.

The data actually effects people like me who is taking out a classic car loan to purchase another 86 GLHS. I'm telling them the car is worth about $15k and I can't show them the N.A.D.A. numbers because it really doesn't support my cause.

And for all you neigh sayers out there that say my new 86 GLHS is not worth 15k on the open market...reserve your judgment until my purchase becomes public knowledge. Then I have a feeling you'll be agreeing with me.

[jckrieger]

I agree a *new* GLHS, especially an 86, could possibly bring 15K. Just have to find somebody who wants the right car.

[ShelbyTC16v]

".....So in the end, there is no right or wrong answer to which one is worth more........"


i agree.

i started this thread not to debate which S car is "better" but rather to question NADA's data.

*shrugs shoulders*

Ehhh, threads evolve.

I don't recall anyone saying that 1 S car is "better" than the other anyhow.


As for NADA, I'd contact them to see how they aquire and sort their data.:
National Automobile Dealers Association
8400 Westpark Drive
McLean, Virginia 22102
(703) 821-7000 or (800) 252-6232
nadainfo@nada.org

[168glhs1986]

*shrugs shoulders*

Ehhh, threads evolve.

I don't recall anyone saying that 1 S car is "better" than the other anyhow.


As for NADA, I'd contact them to see how they aquire and sort their data.:
National Automobile Dealers Association
8400 Westpark Drive
McLean, Virginia 22102
(703) 821-7000 or (800) 252-6232
nadainfo@nada.org

They are my next door neighbors, maybe I'll pay them a visit:eyebrows:

[ShelbyTC16v]

They are my next door neighbors, maybe I'll pay them a visit:eyebrows:

That really is the best way. There are many factors that go into making a value. A lot of people think that because there are a few of this or that made that they automatically think they are worth bunches. Not necessarily. A couple of factors are; what people are currently paying and again, "desirability". Because someone is "willing" to pay 20K for a car does not mean it is worth that. Money actually has to change hands. Then and only then does it become that worth.

Another source would be auto collector appraisers. They might have information on market value because that is how they come up with a value. But where they get there values from, I have no idea. Who knows, maybe it's NADA? :D
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the record, I never said one car is "better" than another and never would. We are all brothers here playing on the same team. I might say 1 car is more "desirable" to me than another though. ;)

[ShelbyTC16v]

The data actually effects people like me who is taking out a classic car loan to purchase another 86 GLHS. I'm telling them the car is worth about $15k and I can't show them the N.A.D.A. numbers because it really doesn't support my cause.

And for all you neigh sayers out there that say my new 86 GLHS is not worth 15k on the open market...reserve your judgment until my purchase becomes public knowledge. Then I have a feeling you'll be agreeing with me.

You might want to get an appraisel. If insurance companies recognize appraisels, why wouldn't a bank? Just a thought.

In all honesty, I've never seen pics of your car and I'm not saying that it is not worth every penny of 15K. Because someone just might be willing to pay you that amount.
If you were asking 20K, your odds are slimmer. 25K it's getting less and less. I hope you get what you want for your car, really. Because not only does it help raise the value on an '86 GLHS, but I think it helps Shelby Dodges as a whole. But of course, when values go up, so does everything else, mainly parts. I know I pay more than enough on parts. http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww244/shelbytc16v/107.gif

[sdac guy]

I know of a number of 86 S cars that have sold for $10K or more in the last few years, but I've not heard of any 87 S cars selling for that much.

I can say that when an 86 S is listed for sale in our newsletter, it sells faster than just about any other Whittier car. For the last couple years the 86 S has been the only one really in demand. But right now it is very hard to sell any premium vehicle as folks just aren't buying them like they were 3-4 years ago.

Lynn Travers, an old friend, was a NADA rep for the Shelby Dodges. He said that the values in the book were determined by reported sales prices and demand for the vehicle. I've not heard from Lynn since I left the other site (never seen him here), so I don't know if he is still involved in the NADA research or not.

It could be the data in the book got the two cars confused as has been stated a couple times already in this thread. But still, not many 86 S cars have sold north of about $12-13K. So they might be adjusting the prices for inflation or other factors also.

Barry

[Marcus86GLHS]

good info Barry. hope Mr. Travers might eventually clear this up for those that are curious.

it seems like the entire collector car hobby is in a deflationary environment right now so NADA needs that adjustment also.

[turbokid]

Since there are more 87 s' then 86's I could see nada taking that into account and seeing more sales of the 87 OBVIOUSLY.
Onmi's are awesome and I wouldn't ever mind owning either. I love my dads 87 unrestored 44k s but that doesnt mean its worth more or less then an 86 s in the same condition

[jerseymike68]

Great links here